Effective immediately, the Formula Toy class will no longer be a self governed class that follows certain series as the Board of Directors sees fit. Going foreword, the Formula Toy class will be added to W.E. Rock's regular class list and be promoted and ran by W.E. Rock as it pertains to their regular series.

How will this effect you as a competitor?
The only difference competitors will see is an increase in entry fee, and an increase in winner payback. Most everything will stay the same.
W.E. Rock is not interested in making any big changes to the way the class runs or the way the rules currently are. They may elect to clarify some of the rules but that is their decision. They plan to have a smaller Board of Directors to advise them on class issues, but W.E. Rock will have the final decision.

Why are we doing this?
Because W.E. Rock in the last few years has risen above the rest as the premier series and the Formula Toy class has found a home working with them, There is no sense having a seperately governed class if all we do is follow W.E. Rock. They have better marketing oppertunities than we do, and a staff to handle it.

Up until now, The Formula Toy class has solicited our own sponsors for the purposes of having a pool of money to pay the winners without having the competitors pay for it out of their entry fee. In exchange for the sponsorship money, we mandated that all competitors run certain stickers to advertise for participating venders. This was mainly put in place to get the class started and to offer potential competitors a low cost alternative to see if they liked competing without shelling out a bunch of money. This worked great in the begining but we have outgrown it. F-Toy competitors have learned how to market themselfs to potential sponsors without anyones help and without being force to put stickers on your rig that you don't directly benifit from.

I am happy to say that after 5 seasons, the Formula Toy class has grown beyond everyone's expectation into a great class and also a really competitive class. We have also shown everyone that we can be competitive and help eachother at the same time. The comradery in this class is better than any class that I have ever seen and it is a great class to be in.

So, how are you going to afford an increased entry fee?
CALL SPONSORS! build relationships. The money that we would normally get from Marlin Crawler, Trail Gear, Front Range Off Road, PRP Seats is still out there. CALL THEM, ask them to partner with you in exchange for advertisement space on your rig.
The entry fee will most likely go up to $275 per event. The $200 increase will go back to the competitors for winning. That is $800 extra cost for the season. You can easily get this much from sponsors.

We will have a provision for first time competitors that want to try out the class. It will be Exibition only with $75 entry fee. This will be a one time only deal per team.

I think I have covered everything. If you have any questions or conserns. Ask away! The W.E. Rock people will chime in as they see fit.

You all have done a great job growing this class to what it is and really, I am sure it will be nice for you to be able to hand off that responsibility so you can focus on your own teams and dreams. CONGRATS on a job well done by taking a concept and seeing it thru to success! For those that took part in forming and operating the class, be sure to put that on your resumes as that kind of success looks good on paper too!

I think Congrats should also go to Mike Hendrix and Camo for coming up with the idea in the first place:smokin:

Thanks to John Scheidhauer for bringing this class to the East Coast.
He has done a great job as a promoter and competitor.

I think this will change the class as we know it.
I really dont care. I am still in for 09. I love the competition more than anything.

NEGATIVE
Competitors will be less likely to lend parts when money is on the line. If you are in 2nd and 1st breaks an axle will you give him one?

When you see the best lines and route through the course will you share it? We did last year.

The lower cost was more attractive to the start up competitor. In this economy we will see a fall off in competitors and builders.

Rules will be more closely watched and infractions brought to the attention of WEROCK. My local comp started paying large $$$ for a first place finish in the series. The entire atmosphere of comradery disappeared after the first set of cones. We were all chasing the money.

:stirthepot::stirthepot:Front dig will be allowed:stirthepot::stirthepot:

POSITIVE
We can be viewed as a true class. Rather than the less expensive entry class.

You may be able to take home $$$ at the end of a comp. I love competing for free. (minus astronomical fuel prices)

Rules will be more closely watched and infractions brought to the attention of WEROCK. The playing field will be leveled even more because everyone wants the money.

We can attend the GNC???? Hey my money is as good as pro mod or unlimited money.

:stirthepot::stirthepot:Front dig will be allowed:stirthepot::stirthepot:


My .02








LOL :shaking: just could not resist the front dig. I do not want it allowed.

A couple of your negatives are not even an issue in Pro Mod...I still have a couple thousand in parts of ours on other vehicles from this season...we share lines non-stop.

As for GNC's, we made a jump to the 2 class GNC's for a reason."Hey my money is as good as pro mod or unlimited money." isn't the issue...the goals of the GNC's and what they do for our sport is the issue. But, this is not the place for this discussion. We know that many want a National event...for that side of things, a new thread should be started. The goals for 09 may stay the same but in a dedicated thread, we won't have 30 other tangents to the discussion. If it turns into an emotional discussion, we'll ask the thread be moved to the roundtable forum.

Finally, you have always been a true class...you've had your own rules, your own seperate scoring, and the other things that come with being an individual class. What's wrong with being an easy way to get into competition without a huge commitment? You are a success and should be stoked that you've built a "brand" of sorts that so many can relate to. If I were getting into competition, or retiring from competition and wanted to stay involved without the huge commitment of Pro Mod, F Toy would be the place you'd find me. I think the same could be said of many and that means you've become a part of something very cool.

Finally, you have always been a true class...you've had your own rules, your own seperate scoring, and the other things that come with being an individual class. What's wrong with being an easy way to get into competition without a huge commitment? You are a success and should be stoked that you've built a "brand" of sorts that so many can relate to. If I were getting into competition, or retiring from competition and wanted to stay involved without the huge commitment of Pro Mod, F Toy would be the place you'd find me. I think the same could be said of many and that means you've become a part of something very cool.

Thanks for the compliment.
you are absolutely right.


As far as the GNC for F toy. I thought the class was too small on the east coast to even compete for a national title. We only had one competitor in 07 and 4 in 08. I am hoping as we grow the east coast side we could be included in the GNC.

Class size was not the reason...event size was. There were so many vehicles and classes that the fans/sponsors/media/and classes all had a hard time focusing. It was a long road to get to where we are today, but we're still here and finally, the sponsors are saying they feel confident about the direction and future of W.E.ROCK. Some tough decisions were made this last year but in the end, it brought about a better foundation for the sport. Now we need to not lose track of that, and at the same time not forget how we got here. That's not an easy balance but the Kleins have given heart and soul...often, being too nice, and things end up haunting them in the long run. Still, they know what competition is about and do their best to accomodate everyone.

Your class was born out of the minds of a few that saw the difficulties that true "professional" competition faced. They saw an opportunity to take some of the frustration away by building what turned out to be something great. I encourage everyone to consider that as an important part of F Toy history and take a lesson from one of the unspoken mantra's of the initial idea..."Easy, Cheap, Accessable, No Political BS." Get too far away from that mantra and the class probably won't do as well in the long run. Those guys were smart and knew what the old days of competition were like. F Toy is a perfect blend of old and new, and truly has been "Easy, Cheap, Accessable, No Political BS."

$275

I guess I'll just volunteer for recovery.

$275

I guess I'll just volunteer for recovery.
An extra $200 per event isn't that big of a deal. Heck, fuel prices are now HALF what they were last year. There is your $200 right there.

I don't think the winning payout will effect the competitive spirit at all. At least in the West, the payout won't be that different. It will go up and down with more competitors, but the amount of money that you could potentially make for winning probably won't change that much.

Diesel doesn't have much of a shelf life--stock up on towrig fuel now for the 2009 season!!!

Diesel doesn't have much of a shelf life--stock up on towrig fuel now for the 2009 season!!!

I think fuel is going to stay below $3.00 for this season. I'm buying bulk fuel for $2.50/gal this week.

Heck, fuel prices are now HALF what they were last year. There is your $200 right there.

Just curious, but what are Diesel prices where you are?

Just curious, but what are Diesel prices where you are?

$2.99 in Montana. It hit ~4.95 for a high this summer.

Gas is $1.87-2.09 for 87 octane in MT/No. Idaho. Not that I burn a lot $$ in my wheelin' rigs!!

$275

I guess I'll just volunteer for recovery.

Im surprised to hear that. If nothing else, run one event for the 75 exhibition. At 200 more an event, and the cost to really make a comp, Im guessing you were not planning on running the season, only the couple close events?

Im with Dtoy, even with 275, I think every event will cost us the same or less than last year based on diesel prices.

Im surprised to hear that. If nothing else, run one event for the 75 exhibition. At 200 more an event, and the cost to really make a comp, Im guessing you were not planning on running the season, only the couple close events?

I'm in the same boat, but would have done the same at $75/event. I'm too busy with work/family to do the full season, but am just hoping to hit 1-2 events to meet everyone else.

I'm excited about the class changes and moving under the WE-Rock umbrella--I'm sure this is something that both the FToy BOD, the Riches and Dustin all considered carefully, and excited to see what else happens in the future of this class. Thank you all for your commitment to this class. :beer:

I'm in the same boat, but would have done the same at $75/event. I'm too busy with work/family to do the full season, but am just hoping to hit 1-2 events to meet everyone else.



I would guess, as this class continues, we'll see plenty of folks at onlt 1 or 2 events a year. Look at the Goldendale events for WERock, I think we ran against 10 other (06 in promod) rigs I never saw again. This past year, we only made 2 events. I was trying to ask if the 275/event being an 800 a year increase in entry knocked him out for the season, or just the 200/event for the one or 2 he was looking at.

I was planning on making the 4 events in 09 @ the $75 entry fee. Since I am on a budget (aren't we all), the $800 additional will possibly change my event attendance. Since I have never competed before, I am not sure if I would actually attend all 4 events next year anyway. But with the difference in entry fees, I may actually run one event as exhibition, and plan on all events in '10 if I actually enjoy it as much as I think I will.

I realize $800 isn't alot of money to some, and DT made the point about sponsorship. This is a great idea, but some people may have issues getting the money up front. I live in a small community that most businesses are mom & pop owned, not nationwide. Most of them don't get anything out of giving someone money to compete 1000 miles away, that they get zero return on. And as a first time competitor, how would I call up Marlin or Brian and get them to give me money?

Don't get me wrong, I like the way the class is going, but this change takes some of the "entry level" out of it.

Don't get me wrong, I like the way the class is going, but this change takes some of the "entry level" out of it.

Yes and no....realize that as the class grows, the "main comp" will be tied to the WE-Rock series, but there will definitely be opportunities for those of us who are interested in more local activities to get some small localized comps together. The Class is growing a critical mass that makes this more and more possible. :)

It would take legwork on our parts individually--but would be well worth it.

If your don't plan to run all 4 events you might as well run exhibition anyways...so the non serious guys are still only paying $75 an event.


Biggest question is how is the prize $ being divided up?

In response to the question of will the increased entry fee change or friendly nature? Only if we allow it to. I am one of the more competitive people that you will ever meet, however I make it a point to go out of my way to help fellow wheelers on the trail and competitors at a comp. I have said it before that I don't want to beat anybody in the pits. I have had quite a few competitors in the other classes mention how they envy our "trail riding" attitude. What we have to do from here forward is find a balance whereby we continue to grow the class yet keep sight of what made the Ftoy such a great idea to start with. That is up to each team to keep a friendly attitude that makes others want to join us.

I can see it now. Front Range, Trail Gear,and Marlins, email in boxes flooded with sponsorship requests!!:D:D

In response to the question of will the increased entry fee change or friendly nature? Only if we allow it to. I am one of the more competitive people that you will ever meet, however I make it a point to go out of my way to help fellow wheelers on the trail and competitors at a comp. I have said it before that I don't want to beat anybody in the pits. I have had quite a few competitors in the other classes mention how they envy our "trail riding" attitude. What we have to do from here forward is find a balance whereby we continue to grow the class yet keep sight of what made the Ftoy such a great idea to start with. That is up to each team to keep a friendly attitude that makes others want to join us.

I can see it now. Front Range, Trail Gear,and Marlins, email in boxes flooded with sponsorship requests!!:D:D
With the way the economy is right now, how do you think that they will deal with all of those requests?

Brian... We need to talk:D

Like any sponsor in any other class.

Which competitor will give them the most positive exposure?? Which competitor(s) place consistently, show up at all comps, and are a positive face and voice for the class and for their products?? It's an advertising expense, not a popularity contest.

Think about it Maveric, you are a potentially new competitor with a rig that has NO SPONSORSHIP stickers on it. It is basically a blank sheet of paper.
You are only looking for gas money or entry fee money for one competition at a time.
You call Marlin Crawler or Front Range off Road and tell them, if they give you $350 cash to make this event, you can offer them THE ENTIRE SIDE PANEL for advertisement. You really don't care cause you don't have any more sponsors anyway and they get 4 times the advertisement space for a fraction of the cost compared to the "Fully sponsored" rigs.

Now i'm not a sponsor but I think this would be an attractive offer. Additionally, you could offer to keep their advertisement stickers on you rig for the rest of the year while you are on trail rides.

This is a way to introduce yourselfs to sponsors and to start a working relationship for future oppertunities. Depending on how professional you act and how you promote their product to others, it could turn out to be alot bigger deal.

Yes and no....realize that as the class grows, the "main comp" will be tied to the WE-Rock series, but there will definitely be opportunities for those of us who are interested in more local activities to get some small localized comps together. The Class is growing a critical mass that makes this more and more possible. :)

It would take legwork on our parts individually--but would be well worth it.

In the coming years Im sure this will be happening more. I would say for all the classes, but rules for other classes likely would be opened up a bit.

And yes, as first time competitor, maveric, that will be harder to obtain sponsorship.

I see the move to WERock being a good one, and this is (in my mind) the largest issue as a result of this move. However, I see it being better for the class a whole. The next year or 2 will tell for sure. I really liked the 50 then 75 entry fee setup. But this caused other issues.

If payout works at 50, 35 and 15 % (throwing our number here) and there are 8 rigs, first now pays 800, better than the 500 of last year. And John cant win every event! :laughing:

The payout schedule is listed in the general rules section on the werocklive.com site

We use a standard payout formula for all the classes

Big

Was there any discussion between competitors about this decision bafore it was made? I was planning on running a full season next year but with the increase and the long travel. since few of the events are less than 12 drive for me, it may no longer be possible. As for sponsorship the class has limited itself to a few major sponsors who all already own F-toy's. Im sure that the cost increase isnt a "big deal" if you already have a sponsor but it a killer for those of us who dont. I will shut up now since my opinion is always unpopular. Just wish there had been some discussion before the decision was made.

Will Pro Rock still be running a class for us?

Was there any discussion between competitors about this decision bafore it was made? I was planning on running a full season next year but with the increase and the long travel. since few of the events are less than 12 drive for me, it may no longer be possible. As for sponsorship the class has limited itself to a few major sponsors who all already own F-toy's. Im sure that the cost increase isnt a "big deal" if you already have a sponsor but it a killer for those of us who dont. I will shut up now since my opinion is always unpopular. Just wish there had been some discussion before the decision was made.

Will Pro Rock still be running a class for us?






I am not so sure that it is your opinion that is unpopular, I think it is YOU that is unpopular!:flipoff2::flipoff2: J/K

I actually think that the class is open more now for other "Outside" sponsors besides just the ones that relate to the Toyota aftermarket.

Only if we allow it to. I am one of the more competitive people that you will ever meet, however I make it a point to go out of my way to help fellow wheelers on the trail and competitors at a comp. I have said it before that I don't want to beat anybody in the pits. I have had quite a few competitors in the other classes mention how they envy our "trail riding" attitude. What we have to do from here forward is find a balance whereby we continue to grow the class yet keep sight of what made the Ftoy such a great idea to start with. That is up to each team to keep a friendly attitude that makes others want to join us.

Well said.

Was there any discussion between competitors about this decision bafore it was made? I was planning on running a full season next year but with the increase and the long travel. since few of the events are less than 12 drive for me, it may no longer be possible. As for sponsorship the class has limited itself to a few major sponsors who all already own F-toy's. Im sure that the cost increase isnt a "big deal" if you already have a sponsor but it a killer for those of us who dont. I will shut up now since my opinion is always unpopular. Just wish there had been some discussion before the decision was made.

Will Pro Rock still be running a class for us?

It has been discussed among the Board of Directors and W.E. Rock for the last few months. We took comments from competitors over the last season and it was time to make the leap.
Alot of the discussions were how to keep "the new guy" or "the low budget team" from spending too much money to get started, but the bottom line is, to compete in W.E. Rock these days you can't just bring your trail rig and run it any more. You have to have Approved helmets, window nets, fire suits, fluid containment systems, etc. All these items come at a cost just to compete the first time.
We were also getting criticism (justifiable) on how the sponsorship payout was going. It just has never gone smoothly for the BOD to solicite sponsors and arrangement payment without having a corporate bank account to put it in, and noone was willing to start a business just so Formula Toy competitors could get paid correctly. We relied on sponsors to mail checks out (sometimes for $35) to 8 differect competitors per month. The sponsors didn't like it, the competitors didn't like it. Also, for as bad as it went it still was a huge pain in the ass for me to coordinate it.
Then you throw in the fact that some competitors really didn't want to run certain companies stickers because ot was a conflict of interest and trying to make sure everyone had enough stickers and and and............................

It has worked up until now, but we have grown past that, and it was time to take the next step.

I think its a good move. :)

$200 is a fair bit of money if your just a a casual guy going to one comp, so just run exhibition... $800 known months ahead of time spread over a 4-5 month period is small change compared to the rest of the costs for a serious team.

If $200 is going to make or break you, then you probably shouldn’t be competing. Competition is expensive like D-toy said and chances are you might break your rig, because everyone knows once the helmet is on you will do thing that you shouldn’t.

If $200 is going to make or break you, then you probably shouldn’t be competing.

Competing is expensive! An additional $800 a year($15 a week) is not that much when you look at the amount you spend getting ready for your first comp.

I think this is a great move. I had considered building an FToy but didn't like that they didn't follow WEROCK payout and sponsors didn't treat it as a true class. Hopefully this will get more sponsors interested in this series and more companies to payout contingency money .

Sponsors should look at an Ftoy, they have alot of sheet metal to cover with logos!

Never the less, this may cause a few not to compete but will probably bring more people in.

Congrats on the success and bringing it to this level.

Sounds like a good thing to me...considering I'm going to help sponsor an Ftoy in 09. :D

:smokin:

It's a good move for the class. I think I'll whore my car out to Jenny Craig for the extra 800.00, it'll be the east coast phat toy #111, so no worries here. I really dont mind if one of you guy's on the west coast want to use my idea!!!

I live in a small community that most businesses are mom & pop owned, not nationwide. Most of them don't get anything out of giving someone money to compete 1000 miles away, that they get zero return on.

You are thinking about this in the wrong way...

You use the national competition to get LOCAL news...the TV stations would love to do a story on you going away to compete in a national series...local hero, supported by local company, does good. The radio morning shows would love to have you on, the newspaper will do a couple of stories, the local high school paper, park your rig at the sponsor's real estate office to draw look towards their sign...it's not difficult to give them a very solid return on their investment if you just look at the national competition as the engine to drive local media and interaction opportunities. And with that, I haven't even touched on all of the opportunites...just brainstorm a bit and you'll come up with 10 that even I've never thought of.

I think this is a great move. This was our rookie year, and we didn't receive $1 in sponsor money. If it wasn't for FU2 helping us out a lot with working on the buggy and shop time, we couldn't have ran the series. With all the fuel/parts/entry this year I came out of pocket over $5000. We had close to 10 rigs at every west coast event this year that makes a $1200+ payout for first vs. the $500 of this year. We took second for the season on the west coast and we didn't make $1200 all year. I think the extra $200 is well worth it. If we can get a couple contingency sponsors on top of that, like the other classes have, we could recoup a lot of our cost. All that said, I don't think that we will be running next year unless someone steps up big.

If you are thinking about the entry as a loss of $275 then it appears that you have no intention of a podium finish? So in that case why not just run exibition? Same amount of fun, no pressure, $75 entry. I personally look at this as an opportunity to break even or close to it at every event.:D:D

I wanted to compete in this class but the extra money will break me. This class appealed to me a lot like bracket racing was for me. Inexpensive, pay out wasn't that great, but I did get some podium finishes. You're right, this isn't for me.

The way I read the exibition fee was that it was $75 one time. Not everytime.

You are thinking about this in the wrong way...

You use the national competition to get LOCAL news...the TV stations would love to do a story on you going away to compete in a national series...local hero, supported by local company, does good. The radio morning shows would love to have you on, the newspaper will do a couple of stories, the local high school paper, park your rig at the sponsor's real estate office to draw look towards their sign...it's not difficult to give them a very solid return on their investment if you just look at the national competition as the engine to drive local media and interaction opportunities. And with that, I haven't even touched on all of the opportunites...just brainstorm a bit and you'll come up with 10 that even I've never thought of.

THANK YOU DUSTIN!!!

THIS is more how sponsorship needs to be looked at. A competitor that offers ideas, event attendance (outside of comps), does press releases, is valuable. Step outside from the "sticker on the side for advertising"

then start a exhibition class so they can win prize money also!!
why would anyone paying out money if they are no have a chance to win anything!
if they do they don't have any common sense or more money than they know what to do with if that's the case send it to me so i can get my rig built and ill put it to good use!!
or
they could go to a local park and ride for free and still have fun and still have that extra money in there pockets for fuel or upgrades or spend on the locations economy!!

then start a exhibition class so they can win prize money also!!
why would anyone paying out money if they are no have a chance to win anything!
if they do they don't have any common sense or more money than they know what to do with if that's the case send it to me so i can get my rig built and ill put it to good use!!
or
they could go to a local park and ride for free and still have fun and still have that extra money in there pockets for fuel or upgrades or spend on the locations economy!!

Spoken like someone who has never competed seriously in anything.

The way I read the exibition fee was that it was $75 one time. Not everytime.

This is correct.

then start a exhibition class so they can win prize money also!!
why would anyone paying out money if they are no have a chance to win anything!

You can start a series with whatever rules, entry fees, and purse you want. They have numerous regional series just for that. Hit up your local regional series and see where you fall in. In CalROCS you would be in the Buggy Class with 36" to 40" tires. WEROCK is a professional series and you should expect an entry fee and a purse. You should see if NASCAR will let you go run exhibition.

it was just a idea didnt mean to tick anyone off!!
this class was started for the beginner in which i thought was for the low budget competitors
hey desertoy when i get mine built ill take you up on that as a challenge and when i beat you dont take it personal :D and i was thinking the 75 was for every event my bad!
it will be awhile before i get one built i got laid off the last of april so everything i have bought for it is up for sale (locally) so i dont lose my house!!!!

this class was started for the beginner in which i thought was for the low budget competitors

hey desertoy when i get mine built ill take you up on that as a challenge and when i beat you dont take it personal :D

Honestly, this is still "entry level" costs. The rigs alone, run 15k or less, way les than any other class running. Pro mod, (formula twisted customs as its been referred) runs 80k rigs. And entry fees are 100 higher, PLUS series fee, (last I checked, 400) While this is a higher cost, I really like that you can "try it out once" for the 75 exhibition fee. See what you think. I do believe it will be better in the long run for the class as a whole, but unfortunetly may knock some folks out for the "sticker shock"

John, you best be on your game, there's a bunch of us gunning for you!! :laughing:

Vince I know you so I know where you're coming from.

The entry fee is still the least expensive part of competing in the series. Fuel, build cost, maintenance, hotels, food, beer, all these are things that should be taken into consideration by anyone thinking of doing the whole series. Start talking to locals businesses about their support. In these times smart business owners should be looking at new ways to advertise and reach people that need a little more convincing to get off the couch and get out to their shop to spend some dough. Think of it this way. Of the items you buy for your rig, which will actually have the potential to make you money? None of them! Consider the entry fee as a part that's integral to your rig as if it were your transfer case or something but the entry fee can actually pay off! You saved the money for axles, lockers, tires,.............save for a few months for entry fee. Not directed just at you Vince but at anyone who thinks this is a bad thing.

i didnt say it was a bad thing i was just thinking of the little guy sorry i came of the wrong way.
you guys are right the about the local events. maybe a busch series version and then graduate up to this series
this is better for the class and im glad to see it growing.
alot of thing has me on edge so dont no one take offense guys i have watched this forum for along time and i know what a great bunch of guys you all are!!! like family that is what drawed me to this class!!
in order for me to beat desertoy would have to be at GN good thing more than one qualifies for it :D

in order for me to beat desertoy would have to be at GN good thing more than one qualifies for it :D

Just come out to the jambo in April. you can meet that guy, and a slew of others. And as an added bonus, wander to Bender camp one evening, to witness the infamous "John James walk of shame"! When's that happen John, ~9, or 930?

I should give him too much hard time, I did steal 5 gallons of gas from him friday night. Thanks again John! :D

I think it's a good thing, winning money is always good. Yeah it's a lot more to compete but in the big picture it's not that much if you really want to do this. Hell I think I read Pook saying he spent like 5k in just fuel or something along those lines. I know I will be looking for sponsors and I'll vinyl everything truck, trailer rig hell even my dog if thats what it takes.

I haven't completely given up. I just don't think it'll happen next season for me. 2010 will be my new goal. Maybe I can get some one to sponsor me while I do recovery? I'll be all over the course.

then start a exhibition class so they can win prize money also!!
why would anyone paying out money if they are no have a chance to win anything!
if they do they don't have any common sense or more money than they know what to do with if that's the case send it to me so i can get my rig built and ill put it to good use!!
or
they could go to a local park and ride for free and still have fun and still have that extra money in there pockets for fuel or upgrades or spend on the locations economy!!

Why would say you have no chance of winning? if you think like that you have already lost!

PLUS series fee, (last I checked, 400)

Could someone please clarify for me? $275 per event, do we or dont we pay the series fee?

Again I ask will Pro Rock still be running a class for us during their series?

Why would say you have no chance of winning? if you think like that you have already lost!

I think what he meant was that from a 1st time standpoint, how do you know how well your going to finish? I know my current wheeling skills, but I have no idea how they are going to compare to the dozen other competitors. In a trail setting, I know what my limitations are, but with cones, time restraints, rules, and from the sounds of it, some kick ass courses, I'm not sure how well I will finish. The $300 total year entry fee made trying every event more appealing to me than the $1100. Budgeting is definately a factor, especially with the last 3 events being a month apart. That extra $200 a month could go towards my broken rig instead.

That being said, I am planning on the Cedar event (or SLC) for next year, and will be running the exhibition class (since it will be my first event). And I am hoping to run the '10 series in full.

Why would say you have no chance of winning? if you think like that you have already lost! as in cash if said competitor actually beats everyone but because he is running exabition he doesn't get the prize money. he just spent money to just run on a course which is a good thing but he could also just go to a park or local trail and done the same thing and have 75 in his pocket!
why would someone fork out money if they do not have a chance at winning it back!
any way the rules are the rules!!
but i guess 75 for being able to run evey course is cheaper than buying a pass to some parks for the weekend and this way you get to run several different parks instead of just one which is actually cheaper in the long run!!

Could someone please clarify for me? $275 per event, do we or dont we pay the series fee?

Again I ask will Pro Rock still be running a class for us during their series?

prorock WILL have a class for us.:smokin:

as in cash if said competitor actually beats everyone but because he is running exabition he doesn't get the prize money. he just spent money to just run on a course which is a good thing but he could also just go to a park or local trail and done the same thing and have 75 in his pocket!
why would someone fork out money if they do not have a chance at winning it back!
any way the rules are the rules!!
but i guess 75 for being able to run evey course is cheaper than buying a pass to some parks for the weekend and this way you get to run several different parks instead of just one which is actually cheaper in the long run!!

I see your point and was not putting you down. We enter every comp to win
09 will be tough on every team. just because a car has big decals does not mean they have a big bank account. only Hal has that kind money:flipoff2:

what if, what if... blah

If you want to compete compete if you want to trail wheel trail wheel. They are two totaly different things and really can't be compared.

John, you best be on your game, there's a bunch of us gunning for you!! :laughing:

Actually, I'm starting to get used to that. I say "Bring IT". When Mustard Dog and I win an event, it's usually the difference between hitting one cone or a couple of backups. Fierce competition! That's what I like about F-Toy. That and drinking :beer: afterwords. :D:D

Quick question to clarify WEROCK payout rules:

First Question
If we have 4 ftoys in a eastern WEROCK event. Does that mean the 1st place finisher wins $1100? ($275 X 4 entries = $1100) Minus cost of trophys and t shirts.

Second Question
If we have 3 ftoys at a WEROCK does that mean zero pay out?

As it said above, the payout is in the rules:

W.E.Rock Purse
Purse will consist of 100% of paid entry fees (minus cost of trophies and competitor shirts). Purse
payouts will be to the top 5 competitors in a class, as long as there are more than 17 competitors
in a class. If there are less than 17 competitors in a class, W.E.Rock will payout 1 spot for every 4
entered.
Example:
1 – 4…... 1 paid
5 – 8 ….. 2 paid
9 – 12 … 3 paid
13 – 16 .. 4 paid
17 – up .. 5 paid
Purses will be paid out based on the following percentages:
Position Percentage Of Purse
Number of comp/class Payout
1 – 4 1 paid = 1st: 100%
5 – 8 2 paid = 1st: 70%, 2nd: 30%
9 – 12 3 paid = 1st: 62%, 2nd: 30%, 3rd: 8%
13 – 16 4 paid = 1st: 56%, 2nd: 28%, 3rd: 10%, 4th: 6%
17 – up 5 paid = 1st: 55%, 2nd: 24.5%, 3rd: 10%, 4th: 7%, 5th: 3.5%

i know the richs have been dealing with a loss lately (condolences), does anyone know if there is any updated info on west event #4. Trying to get info together to present to potential sponsors and would like to be able to give them all of the event lacations. Are the dates solid? any update on west event #2, Ceder City or Salt lake?

Series fee?

but i guess 75 for being able to run evey course is cheaper than buying a pass to some parks for the weekend and this way you get to run several different parks instead of just one which is actually cheaper in the long run!!

$75 is cheaper then admission to the event. For that $75 you get admission for you, your spotter and two crew/familly for both days. At $10 per person per day you just saved $5 by competing. So look at it this way, WEROCK is going to pay you $5 to come out and give it a try. Sometimes you even get a couple of t-shirts out of it.

Quick question to clarify WEROCK payout rules:

First Question
If we have 4 ftoys in a eastern WEROCK event. Does that mean the 1st place finisher wins $1100? ($275 X 4 entries = $1100) Minus cost of trophys and t shirts.

Second Question
If we have 3 ftoys at a WEROCK does that mean zero pay out?

The $75 is for the insurance/trophies and the $200 goes to the payout.
1st of 4 = $800
1st of 3 = $600
1st of 10 = $1240
2nd of 10 = $600
3rd of 10 = $160

The $75 is for the insurance/trophies and the $200 goes to the payout.
1st of 4 = $800
1st of 3 = $600
1st of 10 = $1240
2nd of 10 = $600
3rd of 10 = $160


that answers my question and sounds real good.

Now what about the WEROCK series fees. That is the first I have heard of that? How much and do they apply to F toy. I am searching for additional sponsors now and need to know how much money to shoot for.

I am searching for additional sponsors now and need to know how much money to shoot for.

As much as you can get:flipoff2:

Now what about the WEROCK series fees. That is the first I have heard of that? How much and do they apply to F toy. I am searching for additional sponsors now and need to know how much money to shoot for.

I haven't heard anyone answer the series fee question yet. I think it will probably depend on if we are going to be included in the championship in Farmington. The series fees go to the series purse. I'm guessing that if we have a championship, we will have a series fee.

I haven't heard anyone answer the series fee question yet. I think it will probably depend on if we are going to be included in the championship in Farmington. The series fees go to the series purse. I'm guessing that if we have a championship, we will have a series fee.

I thought the series was just the 4 events with grand nationals a seperate event?

As much as you can get:flipoff2:

I will call you today. Have your checkbook ready.

I don't think that we will be paying a series fee but I will get Big Rich to confirm. He's at the Baja 1000 until next week, so it might take a few days.

I thought the series was just the 4 events with grand nationals a seperate event?

I just re read the rulebook and couldn't find an answer. It just said that the series purse would be paid at the end of the season.

I am not sure what Big has planned for series fees but the Grand Nats have nothing to do with series fees. The series fee covers either the west or east series, whichever region you are competing in. And as of now, it is totally up in the air of whether GNC's will be expanded beyond what they were in 08. After the Kleins return from Baja, that, and the schedule will be heavilly discussed.

I am not sure what Big has planned for series fees but the Grand Nats have nothing to do with series fees. The series fee covers either the west or east series, whichever region you are competing in. And as of now, it is totally up in the air of whether GNC's will be expanded beyond what they were in 08. After the Kleins return from Baja, that, and the schedule will be heavilly discussed.


Keep us posted.
What area series fees and how much are they for pro mod or unlimited now?

Keep us posted.
What area series fees and how much are they for pro mod or unlimited now?

Around $400 I think, and the winner of the series gets an extra check at the last event. :smokin:

275 per event I got that.
is their an entry fee also for the year like the other classes? I might have missed it.

275 per event I got that.
is their an entry fee also for the year like the other classes? I might have missed it.


does anyone know??

Go to the We-Rock page, and open the entry form page. It has the fee schedule on it. Looks like $300 yearly membership fee, and $275 per event OR $350 for a single event ($75 membership fee, $275 event fee)

OK
$1400 for the year.
Lets get it on:grinpimp:

I just talked with Big Rich. To be clear, it's $275 per event with a $300 membership fee.

I just talked with Big Rich. To be clear, it's $275 per event with a $300 membership fee.

I am a little confused. $275 per event plus a yearly $300 membership fee for what? if thats the case is it $575. for the first comp then $275 each event after? do you need to be a member to cpmpete?

That is how I understand it as well.

The membership fee covers the cost of the trophies, shirts, Insurance, and other W.E Rock costs. The event fees are for winner payback.
Last year we paid $75 per event. This covered the Trophies and other costs cause we didn't have any winner payback. We got the winner payback from "Class sponsors" which we will not have this year.

Is that as clear as mud?

And if you did all four events that made up the $300 membership fee.

I think I'm going to see if I can get Obama to pay my membership fee and entry fees.:mr-t::mr-t::mr-t:

I think I'm going to see if I can get Obama to pay my membership fee and entry fees.:mr-t::mr-t::mr-t:

damm you I was gonna do that:laughing:

damm you I was gonna do that:laughing:
I have no problem what so ever asking for you to. :D :D :D

I just talked with Big Rich. To be clear, it's $275 per event with a $300 membership fee.

thanks, I figured that, just getting ready

I have no problem what so ever asking for you to. :D :D :D

thanks just get money and mail it to me:smokin:

The membership fee covers the cost of the trophies, shirts, Insurance, and other W.E Rock costs. The event fees are for winner payback.
Last year we paid $75 per event. This covered the Trophies and other costs cause we didn't have any winner payback. We got the winner payback from "Class sponsors" which we will not have this year.


The $75 is for the insurance/trophies and the $200 goes to the payout.


Since the ruling body has changed hands, our insurance and trophies have gone up $75 per event? Or is the whole $275 going to the purse, and the $300 membership fee cover trophies, insurance, etc? Just trying to clear up the mud a little.:D

Id thought I understand 200 payout, 75 trophy/rolled in series fee.

At any rate, just shot messages to Rich's so we'll see what the official answer is.

See new posted thread about event costs

200 to purse each event
75 to membership each event

Just got this back from Big.

But I think we all need to see the thread he mentions too.