Alright guys Ive been interested in getting into reloading for the last year or so and now that .223 prices are up so much I guess there is no better time than the present. Initially I want to reload for .223 and 9mm, later I will get into 30-06 and perhaps .357. And as usual cheap is the name of the game!

Ive been searching and reading several sights (here, thefiringline, xdtalk, ect) off and on for several months and have a somewhat, kinda, might be what I need, probally missing something, dont really know if thats right, idea of what to buy.

These two threads on this forum I found to be helpful "Reloading list" (http://pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=726619&highlight=reloading) and "Reloading presses and tools (http://pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=724154&highlight=reloading)

So what I have on BUY list is this:
From Kempfgunshop.com (https://kempfgunshop.com//index.php?page=shop.cart&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=41): Lee Classic turret press upgraded kit for 9mm
(includes Lee Classic Turret Press
Lee Deluxe 4-Die Set
Lee Pro Auto Disk Powder Measure
Lee Safety Prime System (Large and Small)
Lee Auto Disk Riser
Six MTM 50 round Plastic Ammo Boxes )
Lee Pacesetter .223 Dies
Lee modern reloading manuel 2nd ed.
Kinetic bullet puller
MTM Primer flipper
Lee resizing lube


From Ebay: Some sort of scale (electronic?)

And I already own a caliper a decent safty glasses and have "The ABCs of Reloading" on order from Amazon.

So now my questions. What else am I going to be needing to start reloading? (lets leave components out of this for now)
These are the things Ive seen mentioned but dont really know anything about:
Universal deprimers, primer pocket uniformers, case mouth chamfer tools, case trimmers, deburring tools, hand priming tools, lubes, OAL gauges.

For a scale what should I be looking for I see most "reloading scales" for for 100-150+, while simple "scales" go for 20-50 dollars. Is .01grams/.1 grs accuracy standard? Should I just go for the cheapest one with the best accuracy?

Ive been tring to read up on this as much as I can and am still quite overwelmed with all the little items I may need. I think perhaps some of the things I read are the same tools but people call them different names, or different manufactures call the same tool/item different names ect ect.
So there it is; if anyone has any suggestions, wants me to clarify anything, wants me to piss off or wants to blow me let me know.

I've got Lyman's digital scale. It ran me about $75 I think, and is worth every penny. Balance scales are nice, but hella slow. Digital ones are where it's at.

I paid $40 for my scale on ebay. It's tiny, like one would use for jewelry. It's great and easy to use, and it was only $40. I used to have a chrono and my ammo was all right where it's supposed to be, so I'd say it is plenty accurate.

I think you're making a mistake with that turret press, as well. I would consider the hornady.

I think you're making a mistake with that turret press, as well. I would consider the hornady.Why?

A lee classic turret is a great press to start on. You can easily put out 2-300 round an hour out of it and it's cheap and sturdy. You will get the same output from the hornady but your wallet will be $200 or more lighter. Dillon makes a $50 beam scale but I agree with the others, digital is where it's at.

So now my questions. What else am I going to be needing to start reloading? (lets leave components out of this for now)
These are the things Ive seen mentioned but dont really know anything about:
Universal deprimers, primer pocket uniformers, case mouth chamfer tools, case trimmers, deburring tools, hand priming tools, lubes, OAL gauges.

For a scale what should I be looking for I see most "reloading scales" for for 100-150+, while simple "scales" go for 20-50 dollars. Is .01grams/.1 grs accuracy standard? Should I just go for the cheapest one with the best accuracy?

Ive been tring to read up on this as much as I can and am still quite overwelmed with all the little items I may need. I think perhaps some of the things I read are the same tools but people call them different names, or different manufactures call the same tool/item different names ect ect.
So there it is; if anyone has any suggestions, wants me to clarify anything, wants me to piss off or wants to blow me let me know.

Im a toy collector and have been reloading for a little while so....;) :D


1. I use a balance scale a digital and a measure as it all depends on what I'm reloading. Some powders dont "measure" well so I throw a load then "trickle" to final weight. Ive pretty much given up the balance scale and have it as an antique. For accuracy +/- .1 gm is more than adequate for generic applications even with fast powder but it doesnt hurt to have better (never does).

2. Deburring is a necessity after trim.Trim is necessay for uniformity of crimp location on the case as cases change dimension after firing.

3. Deprimers save setting up for 1 operation (decapping) meaning one can then clean before sizing and expanding (a good thing in most instances for dimensional consitency of case reasons). But it depends on how involved one wants to get with reloading.

4. Pocket uniformity and hand priming helps reduce the cartridge variable issue...:D

D.

Trimming is damn near unnecessary with once fired brass. I use a factory crimp die with my 5.56 loads to avoid having to worry about minor variations in length creating a problem.

I do have the lee trimmer, and I will use it when it becomes necessary, but I've seldom found a case that wasn't within spec when checking randomly.

Why?

A lee classic turret is a great press to start on. You can easily put out 2-300 round an hour out of it and it's cheap and sturdy. You will get the same output from the hornady but your wallet will be $200 or more lighter. Dillon makes a $50 beam scale but I agree with the others, digital is where it's at.

Because you have to pull the handle four times to get one round. If you're going to get a turret, you might as well just get a progressive and be done with it.

ve a look at the dillon rl 550 progessive reloadind press, alot of room to grow and excellent service.

So trimming which in turn leads to deburring may not be neccesary with once fired brass? I assume the more brass is reused the further out of spec it becomes? So what about twice fired brass? Alot of my brass is from Ultramax which is remanufactured ammo, there for I should be trimming this brass correct?

Deprimers simply just speed up the process then? In which case I can get by with out them?

As for the press I dont think Im wanting to put up the money for a progressive press and really dont think I would load enough to make it worth it.

Buy a Dillion...........The customer support is beyond awesome.

As for the press I dont think Im wanting to put up the money for a progressive press and really dont think I would load enough to make it worth it.

How much are we talking in difference here?

And if you're wondering about trimming, just buy the lee trimmer. It's like 20 bucks and you can see for yourself.

How much are we talking in difference here?


Huh? Difference in what?

What's included in the kit from Kempf isn't bad at all for the price. It's a good start. Even if you decide to upgrade later, I'm sure you can get your money's worth out of it.

Besides a scale you will need a good bench or stand. If you're on a budget, check Goodwill or Craigslist and see if you can find an old heavy duty office desk. That will give you something sturdy to mount your press on and it generally costs less than building a bench from scratch.

I prime my cases by hand (Lee Autoprime tool) but that's just personal preference. I don't like priming on a press, but either way gets the job done.

Whatever type of scale you get, keep it stored on a separate table from your press unless your bench is *rock solid*. level and zero the scale before use every time, and make sure no air vents are blowing on it. I use a Lyman M5 (Ohaus)which is almost identical to an RCBS 1010 (Ohaus) but it's older and not painted green. I like the "feedback" and inherent safety a mechanical balance gives better than a digital scale, but again... that's just a personal preference, YMMV. If you decide to go the balance route, I would suggest getting one with magnetic dampening.

Some additional stuff you may want to get:
*A powder trickler - $5-25 Even though you're using an auto-disk, You'll eventually want to hand trickle a load at some point. Redding makes the nicest one IMO.
*A tin of Imperial sizing wax - $6-7, Great stuff. A little bit goes a long way
*A spare decapping pin - $2-3, The Lee "unbreakable pin" can break and if it does, you wont be doing any decapping until you can get a new one.
*Hornady style die lock rings - $2-3 ea. The lee dies use a rubber O-ring to "lock" the jam nut so they need to be readjusted whenever you remove the dies. The locking type rings have a split collar that tightens with an allen screw so they hold the setting. Note - If you're changing out the whole turret with dies installed when you change calibers it doesn't really make a difference which style locknuts you use.

Trimming is damn near unnecessary with once fired brass. I use a factory crimp die with my 5.56 loads to avoid having to worry about minor variations in length creating a problem.

I do have the lee trimmer, and I will use it when it becomes necessary, but I've seldom found a case that wasn't within spec when checking randomly.

Meh, to each their own. I see roughly .02-.06" growth on my .45-70 cases (Starline and Rem) after every use. In the case of the .45-70 It's not like BP that I use is a major high pressure problem in comparison to smokeless loads (the opposite in fact) but they can and do vary enogh to be be an issue.

That said I will also say that BP is a whole lot more forgiving on some details (like charge) that smokess reloading.

D.

Huh? Difference in what?

In price between the lee turret and a progressive press. I bought my dillon used with a lot of extras, and it was years ago, so I'm out of the loop as far as pricing goes.

In price between the lee turret and a progressive press. I bought my dillon used with a lot of extras, and it was years ago, so I'm out of the loop as far as pricing goes.

Ahh I see, well from just some google searching the dillion 550 runs about $400, where as the Lee kit Im looking at is less than 200 dollars. Dont get me wrong Id love to pick up something like that, if any of you guys have used chit for sale then post if up too.

Bumpy- thanks, your "additional stuff" is exactly what Im looking for! I will look into that stuff further. Its looking like Ill need to make an order with midway or cabelas for all theses other little things, though Im going to go check out some of the shops around here as well.

Don't forget a primer flip tray. I don't see that mentioned. They're cheap and definitely a necessity.

And like I said, pick up the lee hand trimmer. It's really cheap and if you need to trim cases, it's slow, but it will get the job done way cheaper than a power trimmer.

Don't forget a primer flip tray. I don't see that mentioned. They're cheap and definitely a necessity.


Winchester Primers you'll never need a flip tray, Federal primers it's a helpful thing to have but not a necessity (Federals are packaged sideways - see picture and you'll understand). With a little finesse you can empty a package of primers into the tray of a Lee Autoprime or Hornady Hand-primer and shake them right. If you get one or two strays, just turn 'em over with a pair of tweezers - no drama. If you use CCI strip loaded primers you'll never need a flip tray.

Should you really fawk up and accidentally seat a primer upside down (Don't laugh - almost every reloader has done it at least once) Just kill the primer by letting it soak in oil overnight and carefully press it out with your decapping die.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d82/TJshare/random/DSC02207.jpg



Random reloading tip-
Rubbing a fabric softener sheet on your powder tray kills residual static and keeps flake powder from sticking to the tray.

If your going to reload alot of rifle rounds, get a carbide neck resizer. It's faster (no lube required) then full length resizing, the only draw back is the rounds will only fit into the chamber it as fired in (or smaller).

The hands-down winner for pimers that don't need a flip tray, believe it or not, is Wolf.

I've been using wolf primers for the last 1,200 rounds of 9mm I've loaded, as most of you know. They're packaged like the Winchester's shown above, except there's 1/4" of space around each primer, instead of all of them nearly touching. I don't even need to spread them apart to grab them with one of the Dillon primer pickup tubes.

Wolf finally did something better than everyone else. Tough to believe, right? :D

I don't understand why flipping the primers is a big concern? Been reloading for close to 30 years. The flip tray is cheap and makes easy work of the job.

I use a 40+ year old RCBS rock chucker with the primer tube attachment. Unless you have one of those revolver type multistage reloaders, the bestest timesaver I ever bought was the Powder feeder. It only sucks with Stick powder like IMR 3031 and 4895. I still trickle each round except the pistol ammo which I sample after 10.

So trimming which in turn leads to deburring may not be neccesary with once fired brass? I assume the more brass is reused the further out of spec it becomes? So what about twice fired brass? Alot of my brass is from Ultramax which is remanufactured ammo, there for I should be trimming this brass correct?

Deprimers simply just speed up the process then? In which case I can get by with out them?

As for the press I dont think Im wanting to put up the money for a progressive press and really dont think I would load enough to make it worth it.

When you start reloading you'll start to figure it out. You won't need the case trimmer for pistol ammo. I don't think I've ever trimmed a pistol case. The rifle cases will vary a lot and you will have to trim them, most likely on the 3rd or 4th reload. If you don't crimp the round(I don't, but baby my rounds) you may get a little more time out of them.

With what your going to buy it looks like your going to deprime when you resize. So you don't need the separate de-primer.

Lube and the lube pad is for full length resizing Rifle ammo. Use as little a you can. Just make the case sticky. If you can see the lube on the case you will dimple the case during the resizing. After resizing you canwipe it off, Neck resizing allows you to skip lubing.

I have both a balance scale and an RCBS digital scale.
The digital scale has poor repeatability and probably should go into the trash.
You can load 5 or so rounds, then check zero, and it will be off.

I use a powder measure for most powders. For rifle loads or max loads I throw the charge into the scale pan, weigh, use a trickler to top off, then charge the brass.

I've never used a primer flip tray. I dump the primers into the Lee priming tool, shake, and then flip over the couple that are upside down.

Also, I have an RCBS trim-pro case trimmer. I do not like it.
It requires different plates for different cases (just like shell holders).
I had an older RCBS case trimmer that was more user friendly and was a one size fits all.

When you start reloading you'll start to figure it out. You won't need the case trimmer for pistol ammo. I don't think I've ever trimmed a pistol case. The rifle cases will vary a lot and you will have to trim them, most likely on the 3rd or 4th reload. If you don't crimp the round(I don't, but baby my rounds) you may get a little more time out of them.

With what your going to buy it looks like your going to deprime when you resize. So you don't need the separate de-primer.

Lube and the lube pad is for full length resizing Rifle ammo. Use as little a you can. Just make the case sticky. If you can see the lube on the case you will dimple the case during the resizing. After resizing you canwipe it off, Neck resizing allows you to skip lubing.

Thanks alot guys! I added a primer flipper and some lee resizing lube to the "to buy" list. I think bronco is right I just need to start doing it and then all these questions I have will be come a little more clear for me, Id imagine Ill learn alot reading the manuels too.
So it looks like this list will at least let me smash some 9mms together so I can just see what is happening, then Ill be back asking more questions im sure.

and as for resizing Im sure Ill be mooching alot of my .223 brass, as well as loading it for two different rifles so I should probally stick to full length resizing for now... correct?

Yes, stick to full length sizing unless you're loading for ONE bolt rifle with brass that you've fired before in that chamber.

Lyman Flash Hole Uniformer Tool http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=729748 Primer Pocket Cleaner http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=467111
You may want to get a case tumbler also and a universal depriming tool http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=136543&t=11082005
I liketo deprime, tumble, ream the primer pocket and flash hole with the two tools above and then go on to lubing, sizing etc. The Lyman flash hole uniformer really pulls some crap out of cases and the pocket cleaner makes priming very smooth and easy.
I don't have a reamer but it is my next purchase. I have a pile of crimped cases waiting
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=253550&t=11082005