I pick her up tomorrow.....

here's what I know:
1979 SII
62,000 origional miles, original owner
4 cyl
t-19
basic rust around rear wells and both rockers
otherwise runs perfect.


tell me what I don't know...

a) how much will I gain if I choose to swap to a 396 or 345?
b) how much will I loose?
c) it has 31's on it now. with a sawzall can I run 33's? I am going soa on 44044's later.....but will the driveline (read clutch) be ok with a 4 cyl, t-19, and 3.54 gears?

what all can ya'all tell me bout these?
I am a jeep guy.............well, I was a jeep guy and now have a real truck.

Originally posted by mkbruin


a) how much will I gain if I choose to swap to a 396 or 345?
b) how much will I loose?


GAIN? What are you refgering to Hp or weight?

Loose What? How long it takes to get to work?

gain in horse and torque (it's a truck, who cares bout weight?)

lose in time, money, gas, etc...

imo
if your gonna do an engine swap, swap in a 350 or 383. forget the ih engine... dont get me wrong, they run forever, but the horsepower/torque/weight ratio is pretty lame compared to a nice caddy or small block.

i rebuilt my 345, and i like it, its great, but if i was to do it again, id do a sbc.

pat

Originally posted by patstanley
...nice caddy...
Isn't that an oxymoron?:D

Originally posted by patstanley
imo
if your gonna do an engine swap, swap in a 350 or 383. forget the ih engine... dont get me wrong, they run forever, but the horsepower/torque/weight ratio is pretty lame compared to a nice caddy or small block.

i rebuilt my 345, and i like it, its great, but if i was to do it again, id do a sbc.

pat

It's false economy to run anything other then a IH motor in a trail/work scout.

Costs more for the swap, you won't get better milage or reliabilty, and you have to rebuild a SBC every 100,000 miles.

show me a IH w/ non-IH motor that lasts 250,000+ between rebuilds, then I'll think about dropping my SVs.

AFA performence is concerned:

He who seeks shall find his motor limited only by his wallet.

Because we all know that driving a trail rig once a week at best will certainly add the miles up quick!:rolleyes: ...I'd hate to have to "rebuild" my motor every 20 years...and 100K is a serious exagaration...


And...if you were in my situation..4cyl, 3 spd..then the SBC was WAY cheaper than putting in a IH v-8 and 4 spd!

And, yes, "Nice caddy" do go together!:flipoff2:

Originally posted by The Mick
It's false economy to run anything other then a IH motor in a trail/work scout blah blah blah...

Come awn! Have you priced a built SBC vs. a built IH? Have you dino'd a SBC vs. an IH (except Tom's 304!) :D?

And to Scout Dude's point... This ain't dailydriver.com! :skull:

one main problem with the ih, is that they are not "high reving" engines at all.
oh yea, and i've got a sbc with 245k on it ...still runs strong too:flipoff2:
pat

Originally posted by patstanley
one main problem with the ih, is that they are not "high reving" engines at all......
pat

Well neither are Caddy engines? Maximum recomended RPM in stock form is 4,500.

Not like that ever stopped me from swapping one in ;) Yeah, I guess that doesn't really matter when all the torque and HP is below 3,000rpm :D:D:D

Originally posted by patstanley
one main problem with the ih, is that they are not "high reving" engines at all.
oh yea, and i've got a sbc with 245k on it ...still runs strong too:flipoff2:
pat

SO???

what do you need above 5K for??? and an IH motor will do above 5K, its just not recommended for any significant length of time with out some "tweaks".



when you crawl on the trail at between 500 and 1200 RPM, who cars about 4000 plus....



mkbruin, welcome. Personally, I would swap in a 345 or 392 (if you can find one for a decent price, but I wouldn't turn down a 345, or even 304).

Complete, running motors can be had for $200 or less lots of times, and its an afternoon (well, mostly) affair. You can even use your clutch stuff (but you will need the V-8 flywheel).

You can swap in another brand motor, its your truck, do what you want, but and IH motor would be the easiest/cheapest (unless you had to build one).


Have you guys really compared the price of building an IH motor??? Yes, a SBC is the cheapest thing out there, but and IH motor is the same cost as a BBC, a Mopar or BB Ford.... so it really a wash. Machining costs are a wash (even a SBC), and the IH kits are pretty much the same price as the BB kits...


I like my boat anchor :D

Originally posted by JoshC


Come awn! Have you priced a built SBC vs. a built IH? Have you dino'd a SBC vs. an IH (except Tom's 304!) :D?

And to Scout Dude's point... This ain't dailydriver.com! :skull:

But.. would you happilly drive a Chevy pickup with a 350, loaded down to 14,500lbs, all over the Rockies and south-west?

My STOCK 345 did just fine.. and the BUILT 392 should do that much better..

And if the Dyno guy finally shows up at RMIHR next year, maybe I'll dyno both, or all three built 'Binder motors in my stable..

Originally posted by mkbruin

a) how much will I gain if I choose to swap to a 396 or 345?


Gain - the other half of your motor.

b) how much will I loose?


Lose - about 10mpg, dropping from 18-22 to 8-15.


c) it has 31's on it now. with a sawzall can I run 33's?

Probably, but you'll really want to use a welder, too. The rear wheel wells need opened up, and if you JUST sawzall, you'll cut into the "bed" area, and throw mud all over the interior all the time.. ask me how I know..

A 1-2" body lift would solve the problem just as well.

Heck, enough Sawzall you can run 38s with no lift..


I am going soa on 44044's later.....but will the driveline (read clutch) be ok with a 4 cyl, t-19, and 3.54 gears?


Clutch would hook up fine, though you're going to be slipping it - a bunch - and you're going to HATE driving it with anything other than 31s. Hell, I'd put the 235/75-15s back on!

I wheeled mine with a 196/closeT19/4.09s and 31s for a good while. It worked OK, and perfomed OK. That was it. It would do 18mpg on the pavement though.

But it just wasn't enough grunt most of the time on the trail. With 3.54s, it'll be much worse.

Then I put 33s on. Hated wheeling it, hated driving it to work, hated highway. Got 12mpg highway and wouldn't hold 65mph on a flat. Most of my day was in 3rd at 55mph.

On the trail, "rev it up to 3000rpm, drop clutch, run until motor winds down, press clutch in, rev to 3k, repeat.."

Put in a stock 304 and highway mileage went up to 13-14mpg, power to smoke the tires around town, and grunt to lug it on the trail.

Still had power enough to destroy a front hub, U-joint, axle shaft, Lockright and break one rear spring perch off the housing and bend the other all at once.

That was a fun trip.


what all can ya'all tell me bout these?
I am a jeep guy.............well, I was a jeep guy and now have a real truck.

Keep the 31s until you do the motor swap. When you do the swap, take your pic on V8.

The 304 will do the job, and they're easy to come by inexpensively. The 345 and 392 are better, but the 392 in particular is "coveted" a bit.

I take it you DO have a welder and now how to use it, since you're talking 44044s..

in the south you need high rpms!!! mkbruin if you get me a good 350 ill trade ya my 392:smokin: ....i do have to admit an IH motor will last forever, overbuilt and strong....just not good for high rpms:rolleyes:

Hey 392, I told you I would back you up, I do ford though. 390, 302 Fuel inj. 460, etc....


WHY? RPMs I have floated a whole bucket of valves, and IH motors get real pricey to rebuild.

Later......

What SBC ya looking for? A 392 would do fine, Id only do a swap if it came down to fi I couldnt find someone who knows what to do on the rebuild dince theres no way I could do it myself at home. I would like to have a fast ScoutII but how fast can ya safely go with 38's:flipoff2:

ok, I'm back.

that is what I was thinking....I don't care about a boat anchor on the front, and I sure as hell don't care about high revs. what am I gonna do, clutch drop SOA on 38's?:flipoff2:

I can easily get my hands on a good 350 SBC and would definately be interested in trading for a 392.....let me see what I can dig up.....

otherwise is 200 about what to pay for a running 345?

Yes I do have a welder and all that other good stuff.

as soon as I get an 8 cyl I am going soa on factory with 33s till I can afford to re-gear, then I am probably going wider (either waggy 44s or full width chebby's) and 44044's.

I have a friend with a 203 t-case sittin in his garage he wants to give me......how can I go dual case with a 203 and dana 20?

ok, enough of this newbie post, time to lurk and surch...........got I hate being a newbie again!


EDIT: BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! I just found a newly rebuilt (5k ago) 304 for a scout for $100 !!!!!!!!

ok.....let the games begin. anyone know of a 392 for that much?

Nothin wrong with a 304. $100.00 ...take it. Spend the coin on the T19W and D300. Do the 8 lug stuff now while yor at it.

naw, I just bought the thing and it is my only transportation.

I figure a one day swap for the 304 after acumulating the right pieces.

I am going to do everything else later after I make a little more $$$$