Dunno, maybe this ought to be in the tow rigs forum.

I`ll take a stab and see if it gets moved.

The recent Suburban thread really peaked attention on Suburbans as DD/tow rigs. Something I have thought about before but am now starting to really consider.

Think a 91 and down for the straight axle.

Say an Craig's list or eBay Suburban from one of the Western states. The bodies stay pretty rust free on the left coast, don`t they ? Here in Michigan with all the road salt. Forget trying to find anything solid.

Looked on CL for Phoenix, LA and LV turned up a few hits. But I need a crash course on what to look for and what to avoid.

Thinking a 3/4 ton with a BB and 4WD. Frt/Rear Air. That would have the 14 bolt/D60 would it not ? 205 TC ? Like to get an NV4500 but an AT would suffice. When did they start coming with 4L80`s ? What do I want to look for ? Did 1/2 tons ever come with 14b/D60`s ?

The plan would be to fly out and drive it home.

Then

Healthy BB with gobs of low end. 35`s and 4.56`s/88`s. Pimp out the interior and do the exterior right.

With new Suburbans going for more then my first house., screw that. We can build one far better and cheaper. Just need help ID`ing the platform to start with.

no Burbs have 60's in them, only 1-ton stuff. Pre-80? will have the 14bolt. Only the 1991 3/4t had the 4L80 in it. None of them had NV4500's.

no Burbs have 60's in them, only 1-ton stuff. Pre-80? will have the 14bolt. Only the 1991 3/4t had the 4L80 in it. None of them had NV4500's.

OK, I was thinking front axle might be a D60.

Pre-80 14FF/Bolts ? What about mid 80`s ? No manual trans Sub`s ?

Mid 80's had SF 14blts, and I've seen a couple w/manuals-- SM465's.

I've looked for a 4x4 burb with a manual for awhile... still haven't found one close by for me (Nashville) but I will continue to look. I look the Straight axle Suburban's but i wanna wheel one, not tow with it...

My '81 K20 Suburban has a SF 14b rear axle and a 10 bolt front. 350/400/208. Only smog equipment is an airpump and egr stuff. No computer, Vacuum adv. Distributor and Rochester Quadrajet Carb. I have a set of 79 Suburban axles (14b ff and 44 internal hub front) for it. All it did last year was my wife used it to pull a horse trailer a few miles to 4h horse program events several times. I got a deal on the Suburban from GSA Auctions. It was a US Geological survey vehicle. Only has 111,000 miles. 2nd from the far right. Unofficially up for sale.
http://pirate4x4.com/forum/customprofilepics/profilepic106663_5.gif

Seems that the FF rear axles are kinda hit and miss in the 80's, And yes sm-465 for the manual burbs.

I have two -- a '90 and a '91, both 3/4-ton 4wd 8600 GVWR.

The '90 is 350/400/241, and the '91 is 350/4L80E/241. Both years are 10B/14SF 8-lug, 4.10 ratio.

Tommy
Durango, CO

i had a suburban as a second vehical. towed really well. had a strong engine in it. even with 38s and 373s i could tow a car and not even know it was there.

So even the 8 lug 3/4 tons are (mostly) SF 14bolts and Corp 10 bolts ?

The D60 fronts went into the 1 ton PU`s ? Along with 205 TC`s ?

This one looks good on paper-
http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/cto/951277926.html

The description seems a bit vague but I am thinking it is a 2 wheel ??

What would you guess it has for running gear ?

91 is the only year for the 3/4 ton 4L80e. My former 90 with the 350/700/241 pulled really well but there was that doubt in the 700r4 strength lingering in the back of my mind (even though it pulled well with 150k on the clock). If I were looking for another burb, I'd look for a 91 w/454. I've never seen a 454 4x4 so you might have to convert a 2x4. dunno. I've never seen a FF either so you'll probably have to install one from the J/Y but that's no problem. it's an easy swap. Wiith a little work you can have one badazz pulling machine with room for 8 people. 120 if you slice them real thin...

91 is the only year for the 3/4 ton 4L80e. My former 90 with the 350/700/241 pulled really well but there was that doubt in the 700r4 strength lingering in the back of my mind (even though it pulled well with 150k on the clock). If I were looking for another burb, I'd look for a 91 w/454. I've never seen a 454 4x4 so you might have to convert a 2x4. dunno. I've never seen a FF either so you'll probably have to install one from the J/Y but that's no problem. it's an easy swap. Wiith a little work you can have one badazz pulling machine with room for 8 people. 120 if you slice them real thin...

Da plan :smokin: No heartburn on converting a 2 wheeler but it would seem easier to all a BB to a SB chassis.

To make a 3/4 ton GM simply added springs and (rear) axles to the chassis ?

Frame the same ?

So even the 8 lug 3/4 tons are (mostly) SF 14bolts and Corp 10 bolts ?

The D60 fronts went into the 1 ton PU`s ? Along with 205 TC`s ?

This one looks good on paper-
http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/cto/951277926.html

The description seems a bit vague but I am thinking it is a 2 wheel ??

What would you guess it has for running gear ?

That one in LA is a 2wd... judging that he said the model was a C20

I got my 14b ff from a 2x4 suburban so ya might get lucky.

Da plan :smokin: No heartburn on converting a 2 wheeler but it would seem easier to all a BB to a SB chassis.

To make a 3/4 ton GM simply added springs and (rear) axles to the chassis ?

Frame the same ?

As far as I know the 1/2 and 3/4 ton frames are the same. Springs are different. A 2x4 would need the engine crossmember (maybe) and front and rear spring hangers swapped. 4x4 spring hangers are longer in the rear. It would be easier to swap in a 454 rather than do the conversion.

That one in LA is a 2wd... judging that he said the model was a C20

I have to agree but what threw me was his description of a 2x4 fuel. :laughing: Not to mention the gas tank doors.

Indeed while making a 4 out of a 2 can and could be done. I`d rather swap engines.

My sub will be my primary tow rig.
Check out my build

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u315/widmayer/Suburban004-1.jpg

Been following youir build. Awesum work. Now where is the picture of the grille and such you promised ?

I would think that 2x4 fuel type means that he has modified it to run on some alternative fuel or it has 2 gas tanks, one on either side...

I would look for '87-'91 for the FI.Go 1/2ton so you get the OD trans.Unless you find a '91 3/4ton with the 4L80.Then swap in a 14boltFF and the springs from a 3/4 ton truck or Sub.

I would look for '87-'91 for the FI.Go 1/2ton so you get the OD trans.Unless you find a '91 3/4ton with the 4L80.Then swap in a 14boltFF and the springs from a 3/4 ton truck or Sub.

Thanks, that helps a bunch.
FI is a must but need to research BB FI adapting. Which might not be to hard to do. Later model BB with the 4L80 electronics. Re flash the PCM and good to go. Or aftermarket FI system with a stand alone TCM.

Lucky that here in Michigan we don`t have to worry about smog or inspection.

Still I would seriously consider having an NV4500 or 5600 manual. That would open up aftermarket FI systems without having to screw with trans cals.

John, if you end up converting, this thread might help. http://pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=653713

Also, I'm not sure but I think the wiring is very close between the FI SBC and BBC, just change the computer. You can even get a factory adapter for the TBI to spreadbore manifold.

Brett

TBI harnesses can be swapped with the addition of two plug adapters, but hell if I can find that info off the top of my head-- coloradok5.com maybe?

The big block uses a regular Quadrajet manifold with an adapter.

I'll be getting a '79 'burb from a friend this week(a gift!). 4x4, 3/4t(i'm guessing from the 14b rear), originally a small block 400, now a 350/t400/205. I've been told the rear is a ff, but won't know for sure 'til I get the stupid wheel center caps off. Seems odd to have a ff 14b w/a 10bolt front, but it's all 8-lug. As for CA being rust-free, that's sorta true, unless the rig's spent most of it's life as a beach wagon. Mine will have a straight body that's got lots of rust in all the wrong places. With a better body I'd want to keep as a tow rig, occasional use driver, but the body's beyond what I'd call salvageable.

this one looks a bit promising, it not hacked or lifted yet and has a fuel injected big block,

http://phoenix.craigslist.org/wvl/ctd/953036500.html



http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/cto/952353972.html


interesting but 2wd one
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/cto/935847482.html

very nice one
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/cto/927444193.html

My '81 K20 Suburban has a SF 14b rear axle and a 10 bolt front. 350/400/208. Only smog equipment is an airpump and egr stuff. No computer, Vacuum adv. Distributor and Rochester Quadrajet Carb. I have a set of 79 Suburban axles (14b ff and 44 internal hub front) for it. All it did last year was my wife used it to pull a horse trailer a few miles to 4h horse program events several times. I got a deal on the Suburban from GSA Auctions. It was a US Geological survey vehicle. Only has 111,000 miles. 2nd from the far right. Unofficially up for sale.
http://pirate4x4.com/forum/customprofilepics/profilepic106663_5.gif

Is that YOUR fleet? DAMN, but I'm jealous!!!!

Derek, thanks for the link !!

Saw this one on CL http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/cto/952353972.html

That DOES look right. Might be a good starting point. Would prefer to have PL/PW but they could be swapped. Depending on the rest of the package the 5000 is a bit steep IMHO.

Is it safe to say that the SF 14b would be 9.5`s and the FF`s would be 10.5 ring gears ?

Without going back to BV`s 14 bolt bible. A 9.5 can be changed into a 10.5 with a RG change only ? Or does the carrier need to be changed also ?

I would also be looking for hydroboost brakes. I was casually looking at Subs around here, a month ago CL was packed with them going for next to nothing. With gas falling the prices have doubled and selection has dwindled.

I would also be looking for hydroboost brakes. I was casually looking at Subs around here, a month ago CL was packed with them going for next to nothing. With gas falling the prices have doubled and selection has dwindled.

Hydroboost is a must. I have it on my YJ and feel it is worth every penney.

Diesels only had HB if I recall.

Without going back to BV`s 14 bolt bible. A 9.5 can be changed into a 10.5 with a RG change only ? Or does the carrier need to be changed also ?

They are not the same axle, at all. Nothing interchanges.

Hydroboost is a must. I have it on my YJ and feel it is worth every penney.

Diesels only had HB if I recall.

BB crew cabs had HB.So why wouldn't the BB Subs.Can be swapped easily anyways.

BB crew cabs had HB.So why wouldn't the BB Subs.Can be swapped easily anyways.

You say BB CC`s had HB. I thought it was only DeeZuls. No problem as it is a 1 ton chevy HB system I am running in the YJ. Easy swap.

The 14b FF would be another easy upgrade. Chances are that the ~burb is gonig to have a lot of miles on it. So new bearings, seals etc are going to be needed anyways. Swap a fresh FF with a 10.5. Freshen it up and be done with it..

just picked up a k2500 today for 1800 here in san diego...

-350 tbi
-th400
-np208
-14bolt rear
-10bolt front
-pimptastic silverado package...it even has a burlwood dash...nice

just picked up a k2500 today for 1800 here in san diego...

-350 tbi
-th400
-np208
-14bolt rear
-10bolt front
-pimptastic silverado package...it even has a burlwood dash...nice

:smokin::smokin::flipoff2::flipoff2::smokin::smoki n:

Was it on CL`s ?

I'll be getting a '79 'burb from a friend this week(a gift!). 4x4, 3/4t(i'm guessing from the 14b rear), originally a small block 400, now a 350/t400/205. I've been told the rear is a ff, but won't know for sure 'til I get the stupid wheel center caps off. Seems odd to have a ff 14b w/a 10bolt front, but it's all 8-lug. As for CA being rust-free, that's sorta true, unless the rig's spent most of it's life as a beach wagon. Mine will have a straight body that's got lots of rust in all the wrong places. With a better body I'd want to keep as a tow rig, occasional use driver, but the body's beyond what I'd call salvageable.
You don't have to take the center caps off to see if it is a FF. If the raised area for the ring gear in the cover is right of center then it is a FF. If it is to the left of center it is a SF. Weird the way the carrier designs are that the ring gears would set that different, but they do. Also the SF bolt pattern for the cover is more oval and the FF is more angular. Hard to describe but easy to tell the difference when you see them together.

just picked up a k2500 today for 1800 here in san diego...

-350 tbi
-th400
-np208
-14bolt rear
-10bolt front
-pimptastic silverado package...it even has a burlwood dash...nice

What year?I have a '87 with the same stuff.The rear is the SF14.I have a extra FF14 sitting here that might find its way in.Had 58K miles on it when I bought it.Paid $1500 and it is CLEAN!

Unless u are set on the older body style, consider a 90's model with ifs for a tow rig. Much more plentiful with everything u are looking for, TBI 454, HB, 4l80E, 14FF, PL PW. IF the ifs is the problem then a SAS would be the only swap u would need to do. Just food for thought and u can find then for really good prices in good condition too.

Unless u are set on the older body style, consider a 90's model with ifs for a tow rig. Much more plentiful with everything u are looking for, TBI 454, HB, 4l80E, 14FF, PL PW. IF the ifs is the problem then a SAS would be the only swap u would need to do. Just food for thought and u can find then for really good prices in good condition too.

Was at a SS club xmas party tonight and several folks said the same thing. Look at the new body style. Main reason for the 91 down was for the straight axle. But now (with the help of the PBB crew) I am finding out that even 8 lug 3/4 tons with 14b`s are still equipped with the Corp 10 fronts.
I`d thought they might have D60`s in them up front.

Hmmmmmm...

ah the fun of learning all this stuff eh,


yes, 1 tons only in the k30, most common ratio is 4.10 gears rear axle were mostly the 14 bolt, as well as some dana 70 rears. K30 rear axles also had different spring perch locations, .


hydro boost was not limited to the oil burners, it can be found in both the gas and diesel burbs, 3/4 ton and 1 ton trucks as well.

70's 3/4 tons got the d44 front,most common gears being 4.10 as well. Another odd ball is the heavy 1/2 2wd burbs with a 454 but 1/2 ton rear, the ones i popped hae been 3.73's

80's burbs you get the 10 bolt, and semi 14 rear..again the dominant gear ratio with all the axles i have picked up has been 4.10's

you have the 87-91 burb with the tbi fuel injection, and as mentioned the 91 year with the 4l80 that can be found. Not to be forgotten are the 4 speed burbs, the 6.2 burbs and the not so common 6.5 diesel burbs in the mid/early 90's

other odd balls are around 80 or 81 had slip yoke 205 t-cases chevy did across the board.. and the one year head light design too. Then you have the rear door changes, rear air option and the 89-91 front sheet metal and if your getting picky the bad ass under hood light on a cord :). I would say my favorite would be a 91, but is if mostly used for towing I would simply get a 95-99 3/4 ton with the vortech 454/4l80e, I like the 3/4 ton look on rallies, the 4.10 gears that can be had, gov lock 14 bolt rear the front grill, the horse power and the interiors of those years. They will tow 10k easy and feel solid while doing it. The IFS is a nice ride and while bashed, it is fine on a tow rig or non thrashed rig. It simply needs to be maintained like most 6 to 7k rigs on the road.

Seen some govy surplus K2500 4x4 w/6.5 turbo diesel Burb's on e-bay at times for as little as $5k. What to remember when buying this year burb is the build date to look for is MAY 1999 because it will have the updated and enhanced 6.5 td, yes, the one that runs and runs and keeps on running.

Interesting when AM general took the older than may 1999 6.5 stock from GM they installed them in many 2000, 01, 02, 03, 04+ H-1's creating a nightmare for the owners, while the May 1999 and newer GM products w/enhanced 6.5td suffered on problems.

Just did a quick ebay search and found a lot of burbs u might be interested in.

http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=m38.l1313&_nkw=suburban+4x4+2500&_sacat=See-All-Categories

Unless u are set on the older body style, consider a 90's model with ifs for a tow rig. Much more plentiful with everything u are looking for, TBI 454, HB, 4l80E, 14FF, PL PW. IF the ifs is the problem then a SAS would be the only swap u would need to do. Just food for thought and u can find then for really good prices in good condition too.

Yeah,My buddy has a '94 3/4 ton with the 454/4l80.We put a 6" lift on it and 35's.It towed a trailer with his Baja Bug and dirt bikes.No problem from here to Moab.He moved to Alabama over the summer and towed his BB '79 firebird there and then to Pheniox.Where he is now.

Yeah,My buddy has a '94 3/4 ton with the 454/4l80.We put a 6" lift on it and 35's.It towed a trailer with his Baja Bug and dirt bikes.No problem from here to Moab.He moved to Alabama over the summer and towed his BB '79 firebird there and then to Pheniox.Where he is now.

Great learning thread. :smokin: You guys have really opened up my eyes to what is out there and how it as equipped from the factory.

Shifted gears towards a 92 up.

The EBay link, Red, has some really nice runners in it. BB/4L80/mostly power acc etc. for what is a pretty fair price. Especially considering what it would cost to upgrade an early one.

Going to follow the ads and look around in the western states. Cali in particular. A family gearhead friend is leaving for Orange County this week. He will be able to do some "legwork" for me.

So here is where we are
90`s 3/4 ton
BB/4L80E
Power Acc
Frt/RR AC and heat would be great.
Prefer cloth but will consider leather

Plans;
Freshen mechanicals up.
Re gear (?)
SAS (?) Need to research front end powered parts.
Dart 570 BB/Brodix w/FI
Small lift/35`s
Paint/interior upgrades.
Typical entertainment system upgrades.

Should make a comfortable, powerful DD/tow rig:smokin:

Dart 570??? that's overkill plus some.

Dart 570??? that's overkill plus some.

Back in the 90`s I had an opportunity to drive a 572 in Lingenfelter BB for a couple of weeks. It was a concept vehicle for a foreign government.

Other then a slightly deeper exhaust tone and what most folks would think was a slight miss at idle. The `Burb seemed totally stock. Sure it had wider tires and aftermarket wheels but that is no big thing.

The truck would idle in traffic with absolutely no ill manners but when asked to move, it did. Big time.

The throttle was totally liner. The more you pressed the faster you went. No powerband. No sudden surge just brute strength on a leash.

From those times on I have dreamed of making a similar vehicle for myself. The opportunity is now close at hand.

Sadly Lingenfelter no longer does much with BBC`s. Chevy makes some decent crate engines but most of them are tuned to a more street/strip configuration. Surprisingly the Dart stuff is not that more expensive then GM stuff. They feature improved castings, oiling and cooling. Plus the blocks can be ordered in several different configurations to suit most any need.

Overkill ? Perhaps but look at the diesel rigs with there mods that are pulling some darn impressive numbers. At a cost much greater then a comparably built gas engine.

it's your money, I'll just look at the pics. :D

Why not a Avalanche with the 8.1 litre?:evil:

Why not a Avalanche with the 8.1 litre?:evil:

Not enough room for the family. Plus having an enclosed area for sleeping is part of the plan.

Not enough room for the family. Plus having an enclosed area for sleeping is part of the plan.\

I have not seen one but do they have an 8.1 burb? Slap on a 5500.00 supercharger and your done

You say BB CC`s had HB. I thought it was only DeeZuls. No problem as it is a 1 ton chevy HB system I am running in the YJ. Easy swap.

The 14b FF would be another easy upgrade. Chances are that the ~burb is gonig to have a lot of miles on it. So new bearings, seals etc are going to be needed anyways. Swap a fresh FF with a 10.5. Freshen it up and be done with it..

look for "JB8" on the option/build sheet. h/b, 3.5" wide rear brake shoes.
heaviest brake option from mid-70s to mid-80s..

Great learning thread. :smokin: You guys have really opened up my eyes to what is out there and how it as equipped from the factory.

Shifted gears towards a 92 up.

The EBay link, Red, has some really nice runners in it. BB/4L80/mostly power acc etc. for what is a pretty fair price. Especially considering what it would cost to upgrade an early one.

Going to follow the ads and look around in the western states. Cali in particular. A family gearhead friend is leaving for Orange County this week. He will be able to do some "legwork" for me.

So here is where we are
90`s 3/4 ton
BB/4L80E
Power Acc
Frt/RR AC and heat would be great.
Prefer cloth but will consider leather

Plans;
Freshen mechanicals up.
Re gear (?)
SAS (?) Need to research front end powered parts.
Dart 570 BB/Brodix w/FI
Small lift/35`s
Paint/interior upgrades.
Typical entertainment system upgrades.

Should make a comfortable, powerful DD/tow rig:smokin:

plan on a large tire budget..:laughing::laughing::laughing:

\

I have not seen one but do they have an 8.1 burb? Slap on a 5500.00 supercharger and your done

Good point on the SC but lets run the numbers.

All the burbs I have seen so far have 100,000 plus miles. Some even 200,000.
So logic would dictate a freshening up.

A Dart SB is around 5500 bones.

The L29 (90`s 454 OEM) heads flow pretty well. But at the hi mileage will need a complete valve job with (likely) guides, valves and maybe seats. A few bucks more and you have a fresh set of aftermarket heads. That would be an let`s wait and see decision.

Cam kit is a wash. Both engines will need a new stick, PR`s and springs plus rockers.

Intake system could be a wash. Both engines will need new parts here.

Same for exhaust, headers.

A GM crate engine (no intake/exhaust) will run anywheres from 5500-12,000.

The low price needing a 5500 SC while the higher price being a 572 ready to run without an SC.

So again if a stock rebuild is all that is wanted then yeah, dump a fresh crate engine. Rebuild the heads. Transfer over the intake system and be gone.

But for a torquer tow rig using mostly aftermarket parts. The price gap really narrows over a GM crate engine. Plus you can set the engine up to run how you want it. Add the 5500 SC and it all becomes a wash.

look for "JB8" on the option/build sheet. h/b, 3.5" wide rear brake shoes.
heaviest brake option from mid-70s to mid-80s..

Thanks for the heads up. JBB is the secert code. :)

What year?I have a '87 with the same stuff.The rear is the SF14.I have a extra FF14 sitting here that might find its way in.Had 58K miles on it when I bought it.Paid $1500 and it is CLEAN!

Hi, its an 89, and someone else asked, yeah, it was on craigslist. Bought if from a nice guy in vista.

Drove it to work today, great driver. I'm putting it through its paces, and then I'm going to hand it over to my wife as her run-about.(we have 3 kids, and abhore mini-vans..lol)

We'll probaby mall crawl it for a year, as a gather parts, and then it'll start transforming into our overland/expo rig.

cheers,
Brian

Yeah the '01+ sub 2500 had the 8.1 optional. (Also got 4L85E and 14 bolt FF compared to the standard 4L80E and 14 bolt SF). The Av had the 8.1 std

I like them both, the '92+ and the '01+. Both could be had with 3.73s or 4.10s with the BB IIRC. I have to say my stock 8.1 does pretty darn well, but sure like the idea of a built sleeper. :p

The old school stuff looks great but rust and frame cracking makes restoration a lot more tricky. The cool thing with the newer ones is just build your motor/trans and update the worn out parts.

A ZF6/5600 likely won't fit in either generation without a body lift. An NV4500 should fit however.

Yeah the '01+ sub 2500 had the 8.1 optional. (Also got 4L85E and 14 bolt FF compared to the standard 4L80E and 14 bolt SF). The Av had the 8.1 std

I like them both, the '92+ and the '01+. Both could be had with 3.73s or 4.10s with the BB IIRC. I have to say my stock 8.1 does pretty darn well, but sure like the idea of a built sleeper. :p

The old school stuff looks great but rust and frame cracking makes restoration a lot more tricky. The cool thing with the newer ones is just build your motor/trans and update the worn out parts. :smokin:
A ZF6/5600 likely won't fit in either generation without a body lift. An NV4500 should fit however.

Thanks for the info RamV. You mention frame cracking on the "old school" stuff. Could you elaborate ?

ZF6/NV5600`s are a bit tall ? Have to Google and check it out. Knew they were longer but was`nt sure about height. Thanks for the heads up.
Know the NV4500 was in the OBS but how about the NBS ? Still an NV4500 ? Thought I saw a ZF6/5600 offered in NBS`s but perhaps I am wrong.

Thanks for the info RamV. You mention frame cracking on the "old school" stuff. Could you elaborate ?

ZF6/NV5600`s are a bit tall ? Have to Google and check it out. Knew they were longer but was`nt sure about height. Thanks for the heads up.
Know the NV4500 was in the OBS but how about the NBS ? Still an NV4500 ? Thought I saw a ZF6/5600 offered in NBS`s but perhaps I am wrong.

The 4wd in the '73-'91 had a tendancy to tear the steering box off the frame. There are fixes, but if the trucks been use rough it may already be in pretty bad shape.

Both the 6 spds are mamoth. In fact the ZF-6 won't fit in Super Dutys that were originally autos. (They have specific floorpans). GM, they fit fine in the HD due to the oem 2" body lift, but the Sub would likely require some extensive floor cutting (or a BL).

The NV 4500 was available in the NBS in 6.0 trucks only. 8.1s and Dmaxs got the ZF-6. The NV4500 could be had in the non HD 2500 which is where my belief comes from it could fit in the sub since the non-HD were the same GVWR/frame style as the sub 2500.

When Petersens built their Power Wagon/JK combo they replaced the 5600 with a 4500 to help clear the Jeep tub.

For heavy towing I wish I had the Zf with my 8.1 as the tighter gear spacing would really help in the mtns. But I think a bunch more HP will help too. :D an NV4500 essentially has the same spacing as the 4l85E, but with a crawler first gear.

To adapt either engine into the drivetrain should be possibly with all GM parts, just have to be creative.

Thanks RamV.
Good information, Thanks again.
Even with a 2" BL the NV4500 in the YJ had to have a bunch of tunnel chopped out.

Toying with an Ally/4L80E with a stand alone TCM or one of the manuals. One issue with the manual might be clutch durability.

In reality I need to make a wise choice in trans. selection. The `Burb should be able to be driven by the wife or one my daughters. Having an auto would probably be the better choice.

On the other hand a cousin of mine just returned from a trip to Colorado. Driving a DMax with the 5600. Pulled a 28 ft. trailer and he was impressed with the combo to all get out.

The Ally has the same issue. Too big for the non-HD body.

For autos the simplest is probably the 4l80e since it is controlled by the ECM and was available in every generation. I assume it is also the cheapest, but I don't know.

South Bend Clutch seems to have some pretty good clutches to hold up, but pricey!

I like manuals myself but it sure is a lot of work to convert an auto truck over, and for the power you are looking at, it might be more then the NV4500 can handle. (I know that is debatable, I am not picking a side, just throwing that out there).

A built 4L80E should be up to the task with big coolers....

If you go with the 8.1+, Raylar has 525 hp upgrade packages that use 87 octane fuel. Or they build crate engines, however they are a lot of dough.

I think Ohio 4WD 73-91's rust out as bad as Michigan examples

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff320/rarecardude/projects/sub5.jpg

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff320/rarecardude/projects/sub3.jpg

That's My 85 6.2LTH700r4/208 Corperate 10 bolt front Full Floater 14 bolt rear 3.73's. Orginally was a K-10 with 3.08 gears, someone did a 3/4 ton conversion.

If you want Rust Free Burbans to start with Texas is a good place. Area's like San Antonio are loaded with rust free burbans that need engines.

Thanks for the help. Have decided to concentrate on 92 and up `Burbs.

Got a the list of RPO codes to check any potential vehicle against. Right now (with family and friends) I am going to concentrate on So. Cal trucks.

3/4 4x4
454 w/4L80
Power acc.
Rear heat would be a plus

I have a 02 with the 8.1

It hauls ass :D

I've seen them for 7K

Thanks for the help. Have decided to concentrate on 92 and up `Burbs.

Got a the list of RPO codes to check any potential vehicle against. Right now (with family and friends) I am going to concentrate on So. Cal trucks.

3/4 4x4
454 w/4L80
Power acc.
Rear heat would be a plus

My business partner had a 95 4WD 7.4 TBI (454) 4L80 Burban. The 99 Silverado 2500 he replaced it with has More Torque out of it's little 6.0 LQ4. Heck his 92 4WD 5.7/4L60 Burban Accelerates as quick and pulls the same loads. TBI 454 is a neutered gas guzzler.

My business partner had a 95 4WD 7.4 TBI (454) 4L80 Burban. The 99 Silverado 2500 he replaced it with has More Torque out of it's little 6.0 LQ4. Heck his 92 4WD 5.7/4L60 Burban Accelerates as quick and pulls the same loads. TBI 454 is a neutered gas guzzler.

That does not however speak for the 96-99 vortech 454's,

My business partner had a 95 4WD 7.4 TBI (454) 4L80 Burban. The 99 Silverado 2500 he replaced it with has More Torque out of it's little 6.0 LQ4. Heck his 92 4WD 5.7/4L60 Burban Accelerates as quick and pulls the same loads. TBI 454 is a neutered gas guzzler.

Bingo, we have a winner. One of the most watered down engines the General ever (well lets not take that to seriously) made.

A 90 year old smoker could breathe deeper. Surprisingly the L29 heads on the Vtech enginesw are not to bad. The rest of the intake/exhaust is a bit restrictive.

yeah but won't a cam, headers and some tuning wake it up or are the heads trash?

yeah but won't a cam, headers and some tuning wake it up or are the heads trash?

I would`nt call the heads trash but they will be the limiting factor.

A stocker runs out of breath well before 4000. Changing the heads will also allow for a higher compression ratio. An aluminum head will dissipate heat even better then CI. Allowing for a more forgiving octane requirement.

The stock intake and TBI unit are also limiting factors. You just can`t get the engine to breathe hard enough.

I would`nt call the heads trash but they will be the limiting factor.

The stock intake and TBI unit are also limiting factors. You just can`t get the engine to breathe hard enough.

As far as intakes go, it's an old Carburated 454 intake with an adapter then a TBI on top of that. I have one of the adapters laying around somewhere from a 1991 C-3500 we parted out a few years back. It was a 454 TBI 4L80 14 bolt with a Kniphide 11 foot tool box bed.

If you want to risk being mistaken for a Mall Crawler type: Use a tall intake and a Cowl hood.

I had a customer with a 90 1/2 ton 4WD. Factory it was a 305 or 350 TBI truck. Someone had put in a 502 BBC with Brodix Aluminum heads, Weiand intake, Holley 850 DP. The carb stud hit the hood skin with a stock hood, so a cowl is the way to go if you want a good intake.

As far as intakes go, it's an old Carburated 454 intake with an adapter then a TBI on top of that. I have one of the adapters laying around somewhere from a 1991 C-3500 we parted out a few years back. It was a 454 TBI 4L80 14 bolt with a Kniphide 11 foot tool box bed.

If you want to risk being mistaken for a Mall Crawler type: Use a tall intake and a Cowl hood.

I had a customer with a 90 1/2 ton 4WD. Factory it was a 305 or 350 TBI truck. Someone had put in a 502 BBC with Brodix Aluminum heads, Weiand intake, Holley 850 DP. The carb stud hit the hood skin with a stock hood, so a cowl is the way to go if you want a good intake.

Thanks for the advice. Hood clearance might be even more of an issue if I end up using the tall deck block. We will have to see how the combo goes together.

Yes, the tall deck and tall intake will be an issue, but a nice cowl hood would slove that and look pretty sharp too.

Damn John, you plan on racing us all to the wheeling trips? :laughing: That is a lot of motor.

I'm going to have to upgrade the Tahoe just to draft behind you.

Bingo, we have a winner. One of the most watered down engines the General ever (well lets not take that to seriously) made.

A 90 year old smoker could breathe deeper. Surprisingly the L29 heads on the Vtech enginesw are not to bad. The rest of the intake/exhaust is a bit restrictive.

I have a 93 K3500 Crew cab utility body with the Tbi 454. It woke up pretty good when I put a whipple supercharger on it. I got great internet deals on the truck and the blower too. Now if gas prices just stay low for awhile.:homer:

I have a 93 K3500 Crew cab utility body with the Tbi 454. It woke up pretty good when I put a whipple supercharger on it. I got great internet deals on the truck and the blower too. Now if gas prices just stay low for awhile.:homer:

Good deal on the Whipple. Heard many a good thing about them. :smokin:

Lets hope gas stays where it is.

Imagine Shriek Abul Jabarfarbamadeedy having to cut back on spending cause crude is so low. :barf:

Been doing some additional research.

Thinking a 205 TC mated to the 4L80E. Hopefully that would live a reasonable life. Don`t plan on doing to many 4wd burnouts but the stock TC (241/208 ? Someone help me out here, mid/late 90`s 3/4 ton BB `Burb) IFS is likely not going to last very long.

For the front maybe a steering 14 bolt on a SAS swap ? Need to sit down and work the numbers vs. a D60 front or a convert D60 rear.

Dart has a pretty good forum and the folks there have been pretty helpful.

http://www.dartheads.com/dartboard/showthread.php?t=621

Did find a potential donor on CL. Had the guy send me a shot of the RPO codes. So I`ll digest what all equipment is on the `Burb. Turns out a friend of a friend is involved with the shipping business. So we have a viable way to ship a full vehicle across the country.

Anyone familiar with Reddy Kamp `Burb conversion's ?

the 90's model burb will have either a 241 or a borg warner 44-06. the 205 swap won't be that bad except for the vss, unless u go full manual on the 4l80e. That is what I have planned for my '85 model. U can use a ford 205 with the IFS. The IFS on the 3/4 ton will be plenti for a towrig even with high hp #'s, it is the same IFS that is under the duramx trucks also.

the stock transfer case will be fine, but it sounds like you arent leaving anything stock so why not

the 90's model burb will have either a 241 or a borg warner 44-06. the 205 swap won't be that bad except for the vss, unless u go full manual on the 4l80e. That is what I have planned for my '85 model. U can use a ford 205 with the IFS. The IFS on the 3/4 ton will be plenti for a towrig even with high hp #'s, it is the same IFS that is under the duramx trucks also.

the stock transfer case will be fine, but it sounds like you arent leaving anything stock so why not

Thanks for the information guys.
Honestly, I do not want to go with an SAS. Would much rather keep the smoother ride, factory look of the OEM setup. It`s just that I really did not know what was under there and how it might handle the abuse.

Thought about the Dmax TC/frt drivetrain but here again we are looking at two different body styles of truck. Was`nt sure it was even feasible to swap Dmax parts in and still have the shortcomings of the IFS.

So here again the PBB crew comes in offers up good solid advice. :smokin:

In essence this is going to be pretty much an engine and trans swap.

Any comments on the driveshaft/u-joints ? Suspect they are 1350`s. 1410`s be a wise move ? Did a quick search and found stock replacement u joints but nothing that listed the size. Planned on upgrading the straps on the 14 bolt yoke already.

Thanks again !!

a guy down at the local mud hole had a high clearance 6 inch IFS lift on a 98 extended cab and was running 35's. Do a bit of serching of the lesser known brands and you will find one or two high clearance IFS lifts for the 88-98's. Front CV axles will be a weak point. The CV joints are just larger versions of the Front Wheel Drive GM CV axles. A few months back pertersons 4w&or had an artical dealing with aftmarket stronger CV axles.

Another down fall of the 3/4 & 1 ton IFS 4WD's is the wheel barrings. They are a mother to replace. So if your tearing down the suspension, do them then. Don't wait till they are close to failing.

I would also consider a rear disk swap. No more dealing with durms packed full of mud. Unless you run your trailer threw the slop!

Thanks for the information guys.
Honestly, I do not want to go with an SAS. Would much rather keep the smoother ride, factory look of the OEM setup. It`s just that I really did not know what was under there and how it might handle the abuse.

Thought about the Dmax TC/frt drivetrain but here again we are looking at two different body styles of truck. Was`nt sure it was even feasible to swap Dmax parts in and still have the shortcomings of the IFS.

So here again the PBB crew comes in offers up good solid advice. :smokin:

In essence this is going to be pretty much an engine and trans swap.

Any comments on the driveshaft/u-joints ? Suspect they are 1350`s. 1410`s be a wise move ? Did a quick search and found stock replacement u joints but nothing that listed the size. Planned on upgrading the straps on the 14 bolt yoke already.

Thanks again !!

The front diff on all 8-lug ifs chevys, no matter the year, are the same 9.25", 33 spline cv's. The cv's won't be a weak link if u arn't going to do any hard wheeling and just stick to towing and street use. I think the only locker available for that diff is an ARB, but I could be wrong. U-joints will be 1350's in the rear of a 3/4 ton burb.

The front diff on all 8-lug ifs chevys, no matter the year, are the same 9.25", 33 spline cv's. The cv's won't be a weak link if u arn't going to do any hard wheeling and just stick to towing and street use. I think the only locker available for that diff is an ARB, but I could be wrong. U-joints will be 1350's in the rear of a 3/4 ton burb.

Thanks Red Chevy,
Had no idea the 8 lug IFS all use the same front diff. Doing a search doesn't help much as all you get are generic information.
I am not jumping from idea to idea it is just that as new information becomes available. And the knowledge base increases. Some ideas that look good at 30,000 feet don`t look good up close.

The concept `Burb had a stock TC and front diff and it held up to quite a bit of punishment. Logic would dictate that the OBS/NBS/diesels would use a different TC/front diff. From what Red Chevy states and my research indicates, not the case. They are the same.

Had a decent donor vehicle picked out in Vista, Ca. By the time the seller sent me the RPO codes from the glovebox door it got sold.
Will keep looking.

Oddly enough, I think the 1500 series TD Tahoes got the 9 1/4" as well.....

But yeah, the stock diff is fine, similar design to late model Dodge solid axles. CVs are the weak point but only if they get out of alignment from bent/flexing lifts. Stock hieght they seem to handle torque well.

Hard to believe it was introduced 20 years ago and still be run today. Of course the FF 14 bolt is older then that.

Oddly enough, I think the 1500 series TD Tahoes got the 9 1/4" as well.....

But yeah, the stock diff is fine, similar design to late model Dodge solid axles. CVs are the weak point but only if they get out of alignment from bent/flexing lifts. Stock hieght they seem to handle torque well.

Hard to believe it was introduced 20 years ago and still be run today. Of course the FF 14 bolt is older then that.

Thanks ramv, old isn't always bad :laughing:

Good point on the lift. Anyone care to give thoughts on good quality lift ? Would like to clear 33`s at least with 35`s being the rubber of choice.
Decent (mall Krawler) ride but not to take to much of the load carrying away.

Prefer new springs in the rear to replace the sacked out OEM`s. Maybe alcans or deavers ? Several companies make torsion bars but I am not into cranking them up. The lift should be designed to add clearance without having to crank a bunch of bar into it.

I am planning on a Cognito lift at some (only 3" to clear 255 or 295s). They have some cool steering upgrades as well, even for stock trucks....

Perhaps just do airbags in the rear rather then new springs? The stockers should ride well. :D

http://cognitomotorsports.com/store/GM_8-Lug.html

I am planning on a Cognito lift at some (only 3" to clear 255 or 295s). They have some cool steering upgrades as well, even for stock trucks....

Perhaps just do airbags in the rear rather then new springs? The stockers should ride well. :D

http://cognitomotorsports.com/store/GM_8-Lug.html

Good choice on the Cognito stuff. I have the leveling kit, dual front shcks and the complete steering kit in my HD2500. Bilsteins all the way around. Much better then stock ride then stock. Cleared 285`s with just a quick trim on the passenger side air dam. :smokin:

A good thought but I wonder what else is out there ?

OST, I'm looking at a similar situation, snagged a 1500 Burb for dirt cheap. Now trying to decide to SAS it, or just lift it. It's only going to see back up towing duties, be mostly an expedition type rig.

OST, I'm looking at a similar situation, snagged a 1500 Burb for dirt cheap. Now trying to decide to SAS it, or just lift it. It's only going to see back up towing duties, be mostly an expedition type rig.

Like ramv mentioned. Cognito has some darn good stuff. I have put over 50,000 miles on my HD with the setup. No complaints at all.

A quick look at there web site showed products for NBS vehicles.
Wonder how much (if any) would apply to OBS (what I call 92-99) trucks.

a guy down at the local mud hole had a high clearance 6 inch IFS lift on a 98 extended cab and was running 35's. Do a bit of serching of the lesser known brands and you will find one or two high clearance IFS lifts for the 88-98's. Front CV axles will be a weak point. The CV joints are just larger versions of the Front Wheel Drive GM CV axles. A few months back pertersons 4w&or had an artical dealing with aftmarket stronger CV axles.

Another down fall of the 3/4 & 1 ton IFS 4WD's is the wheel barrings. They are a mother to replace. So if your tearing down the suspension, do them then. Don't wait till they are close to failing.

I would also consider a rear disk swap. No more dealing with durms packed full of mud. Unless you run your trailer threw the slop!

Stock height GM ifs/4x4 suspension works w/bushwacker cutouts and 35" tires on 90"s c/k series.

I've taken to pulling frt/ifs/4x4 bearing hubs using tool and leaving the 4 bolts in-place until unit is apart. This allows inspection, cleaning and repacking of the so-called sealed frt hub bearing assembly. Save's big $$$ and has worked for me for sometime now.

Disks are best all around!

I emailed Cognito about OBS trucks, this is their reply:
No suspension systems for those any more. We discontinued them about
1.5 years ago. Thank you for your interest in our products.




Chad Troxler
Sales & Marketing Manager

COGNITO MOTORSPORTS, INC
Phone 866-426-4648 Ext. 200
Fax 661-588-8295
1800 Art St.
Bakersfield, Ca 93312
chad@cognitomotorsports.com
www.cognitomotorsports.com

I emailed Cognito about OBS trucks, this is their reply:

Bummer,
Chad was the guy I dealt with and he always had great customer service.
Thanks for taking the trouble of emailing Cognito. :)

Have to admit that I always liked the Bushwacker flares. Going to be some searching and see what might be out there in mild lifts/leveling kits that do not crank the T bars up.

Bummer,
Chad was the guy I dealt with and he always had great customer service.
Thanks for taking the trouble of emailing Cognito. :)

Have to admit that I always liked the Bushwacker flares. Going to be some searching and see what might be out there in mild lifts/leveling kits that do not crank the T bars up.

FYI, if u don't want to crank the stock t-bars then don't look at the leveling kits with the "clockers" they do the same thing.

FYI, if u don't want to crank the stock t-bars then don't look at the leveling kits with the "clockers" they do the same thing.

So far the "clockers" are all I am finding. Cognito`s kit was unquie in that there leveling kit had replacement UCA`s that did not require cranking the TB`s up. Which screws up ride and geometry up front.

Gotta keep looking.

If there kit comes with clockers then u are still doing the same thing. The clockers just set into position at a higher point with the factory adjuster bolt screwed all the way out. Still adding angle to your a-arms, steering, and cv's. The longer a-arm has the balljoint set at a better angle so with the increased ride hieght it does not bind. If u installed a longer a-arm with the stock clockers at stock hieght, the top of the tire would lean way out, then u would need to crank the torsion bar to bring it back in or use the aftermarket clockers that just set in at a different spot. U will also have to trim the factory bump stops to install the clockers or it will be on them all the time and ride 10 times worse.

Rancho had a kit for awhile but maybe its discontued>? I swear I remember an A arm kit from like '97 or '98

There was an a-arm kit, I had one on my '93. U could get around 4" out of it if u wanted to. It still did the same thing as the clockers, the only way to gain lift on an ifs rig without lowering everything is to increase the angle on the a-arms via cranking, clockers or longer a-arms. Which in turn will add angle to everything else and if u go past what your stock adjusters will do, the ride will suffer.

Thanks ramv, old isn't always bad :laughing:

Good point on the lift. Anyone care to give thoughts on good quality lift ? Would like to clear 33`s at least with 35`s being the rubber of choice.
Decent (mall Krawler) ride but not to take to much of the load carrying away.

Prefer new springs in the rear to replace the sacked out OEM`s. Maybe alcans or deavers ? Several companies make torsion bars but I am not into cranking them up. The lift should be designed to add clearance without having to crank a bunch of bar into it.

I have a 95 1500 Suburban that had 285/85/16 BFG MTs on stock factory alloys when I got it, with stock suspension. It does not have the wheelwell flares, and the tires fit fine and did not rub anywhere. 33s are easy.

If there kit comes with clockers then u are still doing the same thing. The clockers just set into position at a higher point with the factory adjuster bolt screwed all the way out. Still adding angle to your a-arms, steering, and cv's. The longer a-arm has the balljoint set at a better angle so with the increased ride hieght it does not bind. If u installed a longer a-arm with the stock clockers at stock hieght, the top of the tire would lean way out, then u would need to crank the torsion bar to bring it back in or use the aftermarket clockers that just set in at a different spot. U will also have to trim the factory bump stops to install the clockers or it will be on them all the time and ride 10 times worse.

Rancho had a kit for awhile but maybe its discontued>? I swear I remember an A arm kit from like '97 or '98

There was an a-arm kit, I had one on my '93. U could get around 4" out of it if u wanted to. It still did the same thing as the clockers, the only way to gain lift on an ifs rig without lowering everything is to increase the angle on the a-arms via cranking, clockers or longer a-arms. Which in turn will add angle to everything else and if u go past what your stock adjusters will do, the ride will suffer.

I have a 95 1500 Suburban that had 285/85/16 BFG MTs on stock factory alloys when I got it, with stock suspension. It does not have the wheelwell flares, and the tires fit fine and did not rub anywhere. 33s are easy.

No Clockers is what made the Cognito kit cool. New UCA`s and lower shock mounts. Gained several inches and kept the ball joint/bump stop/droop gemoerty all in line. What I did not like is that the CV angle became fairly steep. No problems thus far but not something I would have to put lotsa ponies through. Still though, the Cognito kit is a good way to go for a NBS truck.

Looked all around the Rancho site but did not find anything. In fact the only lift listed was for OBS 6 lug. Nothing for the 8 lug OBS at all.

BDS list`s nothing as well. Need to do some more searching.

Superlift has a 3-4 inch that has a one piece cradle and new knuckles. Thinking that would keep the CV joints straight.

The other thing I recall is that some of the lifts increases front track. Not something I want to do.

Thinking a phone call or two to some of the manufactoures is in order. Maybe they have inventory but it is not listed.

You folks have helped me to understand that a set of 33`s and even 35`s with flares will fit but you have to admit. A couple inches (3-4) looks pretty good. IMHO at least.

good info here, thinking about finally replacing my tired 89 gmc 3/4ton pickup with another gmc 3/4 ton, but a burb this time.

whats the fuel mileage difference between a big block and a small block? i prefer TBI on either for simplicitys sake. would an IFS 3/4ton with a small block have a 4L80? i like the power of my 350/700R4/4.10s 285s.

do the bodys have any cracking issues? my 80s fullsize bronco has major body cracking issues. i would rather have the window/gate over barn doors if that matters.

how similar are the 4 door tahoes to suburbans? obviously they are only 1/2 ton and a little shorter but a rear end swap isn't hard and a SAS is the same for either. seems like a lot of the 4 door tahoes on CL/ebay have toasted trannies or are on their 2nd, 3rd etc. some still had TBI too right?

I get 12-14 out of my 3/4t Burb w/TBI 350

I got 8.5-9 out of my CC dually w/TBI 454.

Hey John, just a thought, but if any of the parts you are going to try to find will be used, what about Bob? He may be able to help you out with finding them thru the wrecking yard computer system at their place. You can contact him on our club site.

whats your opinion on the power difference? sounds like i will be better off with the 350 tho.

good info here, thinking about finally replacing my tired 89 gmc 3/4ton pickup with another gmc 3/4 ton, but a burb this time.

whats the fuel mileage difference between a big block and a small block? i prefer TBI on either for simplicitys sake. would an IFS 3/4ton with a small block have a 4L80? i like the power of my 350/700R4/4.10s 285s.

do the bodys have any cracking issues? my 80s fullsize bronco has major body cracking issues. i would rather have the window/gate over barn doors if that matters.

how similar are the 4 door tahoes to suburbans? obviously they are only 1/2 ton and a little shorter but a rear end swap isn't hard and a SAS is the same for either. seems like a lot of the 4 door tahoes on CL/ebay have toasted trannies or are on their 2nd, 3rd etc. some still had TBI too right?

Hey John, just a thought, but if any of the parts you are going to try to find will be used, what about Bob? He may be able to help you out with finding them thru the wrecking yard computer system at their place. You can contact him on our club site.

whats your opinion on the power difference? sounds like i will be better off with the 350 tho.

Any obs truck will be Fuel Injected. TBI (OBD 1) to 95. Port Injection 96 (OBD 2) and up. There might to a couple exceptions but pretty sure this is right.

When you go to 3/4 ton the trans is a 4L80E. 1/2 tons used the 4L60/700R4.

Not heard of any body or frame issues on OBS trucks.

Tahoe's are nice rides and as you state are pretty close to what a Suburban is. Suppose you could swap axles and do a SAS but why ? The extra wheelbase/storage/passenger comforts make the `Burb a better ride IMHO. Without changing the trans and axles it will be a 1/2 ton. By a 3/4 and be done with it.

I am not going to touch mileage. There are so many variables that it is not fair to compare. To me the extra power of a BB is worth a potential mileage penalty. BB vs. SB all depends on what you tow and where. If you are are on the flats of Kansas vs. the Mountains of Colorado. Same thing for gas mileage.

RJ,
Bob is on my mind. I may look him up for a set of L29 heads.
Still deciding on the engine combo. Perhaps a 502 with a stroker crank (548 or so) with a Whipple or Radix SC blowing 5-7 lbs of boost. These engines are being made for the off shore boat guys. 91 octane and 30 degrees of timing they are seeing close to 800 lbs of torque.

Did pick up some 4L80 parts. Hardened input, 34 element sprag, HD clutch packs etc. Might give Bob a call and see what he wants for a used trans. Then I can rebuild it myself and have it ready to go. The converter choice will have to wait till the engine is decided on.

maybe i missed it in this thread somewhere, but i didn't see much talk about gear ratios and which were available.

i know a lot of 80s 1/2 tons had 3.42s and 3.73s, which was more common in subs?
did any 1/2 tons come with 4.10s?
specifically, would an 88 k1500 sub have at least 3.73s?

I have a 90 suburban, first 500.00 takes it. Come and get it. Has a bad TCI T400. Other than that its in good shape. Great running tbi 350. Interior is good. Has a set of weld wheels and some 90% 265/75 dominator sport at's. It has ac and heat. E- brake does not work.

Check out merlinwags suburban for sale here on Pirate. If you are just looking for a tow rig why not look at a 92 and up. They came with big blocks and every big block I have seen has a 4L80E and a full floater. Besides that the front IFS has a bigger ring gear than a 10 bolt or Dana 44. Personally for a tow rig and mild wheeler I would buy one of those, put 2500 HD springs and torsion bars in it, H2 wheels and tires, a rear locker and be done with it. One of those things will surprise you with its ability.
I have Suburbans of 3 body styles, (73,93 and 2000) they all work well for there intended usage. The Suburban for a tow rig and mild to moderate 4x4 is a plenty good vehicle. Extreme stuff requires a wheelbase of 120" or less in my opinion.

maybe i missed it in this thread somewhere, but i didn't see much talk about gear ratios and which were available.

i know a lot of 80s 1/2 tons had 3.42s and 3.73s, which was more common in subs?
did any 1/2 tons come with 4.10s?
specifically, would an 88 k1500 sub have at least 3.73s?

I had a '79 1/2ton with 4:10s stock.Not sure on the 88's.

Put 2500 HD springs and torsion bars in it, H2 wheels and tires, a rear locker and be done with it.
A lock right from a SF 14 bolt works in the front 9.25 front axle.
You have most of the info you need to build a pretty cool 92 to 99 big block Suburban.
Remember to 2000 to 2006 3/4 ton Suburbans used the same 3/4 ton chassis as the older ones. You could do a big block swap in one of those or even hop up the 6.0 liter.
Suburbans are easy to buy now...a buyers market so to speak.
I have a 73,93 and a 2000. They are my favorite vehicle!

Remember to 2000 to 2006 3/4 ton Suburbans used the same 3/4 ton chassis as the older ones. You could do a big block swap in one of those or even hop up the 6.0 liter.



No they don't. They use a similar chasis to the '99+ 2500 (non-HD) pickups with hydroformed frame rails.

They also are available with an 8.1 L big block from the factory. These ones are easy to pick out as they get the 10.5" FF rear as opposed to the 9.5" SF rear the 2500 LD/Sub gets with the 6.0L.

Having an 8.1 doesn't necessarily guarantee a full floater. When I was shopping for my Avalanche I found out you only get a full floater with the 4.10 gear option. Maybe the burbs are the same way since they share the same chassis...

No they don't. They use a similar chasis to the '99+ 2500 (non-HD) pickups with hydroformed frame rails.

They also are available with an 8.1 L big block from the factory. These ones are easy to pick out as they get the 10.5" FF rear as opposed to the 9.5" SF rear the 2500 LD/Sub gets with the 6.0L.

Funny, even Chevrolet product informatiom for the 2000 Suburban said it used the same chassis as the 99. Maybe they changed after 2000?

I do know every 92 to 99 Suburban I have seen in the wrecking yard with a big block has had a full floater. The reason I've noticed is the spring perches are different in the Suburban and it brings the backing plate visually pretty close to the frame. I look at them every time and because the Suburban frame has less of a riser in it the front spring perches are shorter. This brings the housing closer to the frame. Truck front spring perches in a Suburban chassis would net a fair amount of lift!

Weird about the Avalanche, since it uses the same frame as a Suburban.
Florida does your Avalanche have rear disc brakes on the semi float?

I have heard that before on the SF 8.1s (3.73s). I hadn't seen one in person yet. Should still be disc brakes. (PITA for aftermarket rear brakes, they almost always spec the SF discs for the 2500)

Was the 2000 body style the same as the '99 in the 2500 burb? Can't remember. The burbs got the coil sprung rear in the 1500s in the new body style the and the 2500s get the updated frames and such. (Thought 2000 was the first year for the new SUVs, and 2001 was the first for the 2500 HD, and 8.1s)

The old gen generally got 14 bolt FF with 6.5 TD and 7.4s. Even the SRW 3500 pickups got the SF if you go the 5.7, but the big motors seemed to get the 14 FF.

Florida does your Avalanche have rear disc brakes on the semi float?

I found one with 4.10's and full float. :grinpimp: The 3.73 SF'ers I saw did have disc brakes.

ok guys just wondering good deal or bad deal? its an ex GSA vehicle I found for sale,I'm considering buying it /trading my 97 grand cheerokee TSi w/5.2, just looking for something to tow with and do some camping :D any pros or cons with this year suburban?.........est.mileage #'s maybe , anyway I have heard brakes are
minimal ,trans is questionable, and intake gaskets prone to leaks. All seem to
happen between 80-100,000 miles from what I have researched ...any thoughts? SCHOOL ME PLEASE...:D

UPDATE: just went and looked this thing over, it has hydro-boost brakes ,4:10 FF 14 bolt ,and a 241 TC . No power options, no third row seat, cloth interior, front bench seat, AC, tilt, cruise....pretty bare bones,feature wise :shaking:

1991 high-GVW 2500 Suburban will have the TBI454/TH400(stand-alone 4L80 was an option starting in '91)/NP241C with an 8-lug 10bolt front/14bolt semi-float rear. Cream of the stock-crop for the solid-axle 'Burbs

A 14BFF from a late-80's single-wheel 1-ton truck is an easy swap if you need the extra towing beef

You could just buy an '88-91 crew cab 3500 truck and get the D60/14BFF combo

The Vortec454's from the '96-99 Suburbans makes that model a good case for a SAS. The torque is great.

Was the 2000 body style the same as the '99 in the 2500 burb? Can't remember. The burbs got the coil sprung rear in the 1500s in the new body style the and the 2500s get the updated frames and such. (Thought 2000 was the first year for the new SUVs, and 2001 was the first for the 2500 HD, and 8.1s)

No, it was the same as the 1500 (Mine has rear coils, swapped out to H2 springs though) 2000 was the first year and I thought it weird that it kept the old frame on the 2500. I'm going to double check the product brochure I have for the 2000, but I almost positive it refers to using the same rear leaf sprung frame as the OBS. 2000 may have been a transitional year for the 2500 and they just carried over the old 2500 chassis?

Tubekrafter $3800 sounds a little high for a barebones 92. It would make a great expedition/tow vehicle for about 1300 less dollars and that would be if it had a big block.

Yeah all 2500s use leaf springs. But the chasis is totally different from the OBS to the NBS, (well as totally different as GM goes).

Stock 8.1 is the ticket on the later ones IMHO, and of course the 4.10s to get the FF 14 bolt as per above.

Or you could just buy mine:D Ford high pinion kingpin 60,full float 14 bolt.4:10's. rear air front bench seat. 177k purs like a kitten

or you could just buy mine:d ford high pinion kingpin 60,full float 14 bolt.4:10's. Rear air front bench seat. 177k purs like a kitten

how much?:d

4500.00 without the stereo or 6500.00 with. Its a full fosgate system. 3 component systems(titanium drivers)fanatic q series, alpine head unit(dvd), two fosgate hx2 1000 watt rms subs with three fosgate amps. two optimas one isolated for key off entertainment.All top of the line

Tubekrafter $3800 sounds a little high for a barebones 92. It would make a great expedition/tow vehicle for about 1300 less dollars and that would be if it had a big block.
Thanks for the input just4cuz, my thoughts exactly on this particular "burb" pretty much every thing one would need for expidition/tow vehicle and would be ideal w/BB :D

4500.00 without the stereo or 6500.00 with. Its a full fosgate system. 3 component systems(titanium drivers)fanatic q series, alpine head unit(dvd), two fosgate hx2 1000 watt rms subs with three fosgate amps. two optimas one isolated for key off entertainment.All top of the line
sounds like a great rig" Valley" if I was closer it would probably be a prospect,still have a few options locally but who knows ,might be a nice excuse for a road trip:p would have to sell the ZJ first...unless you want to trade...:D

Are the frames actually different between the 1/2 and 3/4 ton 80-90 suburbans?


just found a 90 2wd GMC suburban SLE trim for $500 with a rod knock

truck has under 100k miles and is clean :grinpimp: I might pick it up for the interior and sheetmetal

I think Suburban frames from 73 to 91 are the same. If you could find frame shop datum sheets on line it will tell you if there is a difference between 3/4 ton and 1/2 ton (look at the section modulus measurement). Mine is a 3/4 ton and I never really looked at a 1/2 ton close enough to see if there was a difference. My uneducated guess, they are probably the same.