I am loonig at geting a set of the Mich. XL tires adn was wonder how well they flex when aired down? I have seen the pics of the ones with the sidwalls siped and stuff but how well will a bone stcok XL flex under a 2500# truck?

i dont believe they will flex at all under that light of a rig... GROOVE THE FAWK OUTTAH EM!!!

.!..__:D __..!.

Hey Todd, how are you going to build a 2500 lb toyota with rockwells?
rockwells: 700 lbs
wheels, tires: at least 200 lbs x 4
Supra motor: approx 500 lbs
That leaves 500 lbs for frame, running gear, etc

Hey 350sam' try 340#'s for each tire!!!

Cant comment on flex yet since I haven't run them yet. Had to get them to aid in the construction of the tube frame.

I would say it is almost impoossible to build a rig with these tires that weighs that little.

Sean

Originally posted by Station
Hey 350sam' try 340#'s for each tire!!!

I would say it is almost impoossible to build a rig with these tires that weighs that little.

Sean

Just for the tire!! :eek: geez!
Whats a 20" beadlock weigh...100 lbs?
Thats 1760 lbs just in wheels and tires!

Hmmm...aluminum, titanium, helium...nah, won't work

Hmmm.....Daniel The little Michelin Men, and hairs sticking out of my treads must make up the extra 20 pounds. I measured mine on a very good scale at our machine shop, and it came out to 341 pounds for a brand new 16.00R20 XL.

Are you sure that 320 pound number that you have isn't after you had done some cutting on them?

Sean

Originally posted by Station
Hmmm.....Daniel The little Michelin Men, and hairs sticking out of my treads must make up the extra 20 pounds. I measured mine on a very good scale at our machine shop, and it came out to 341 pounds for a brand new 16.00R20 XL.

Are you sure that 320 pound number that you have isn't after you had done some cutting on them?

Sean

those tires are so big that a 20lb difference could be due to the molding process. a 52 has a shitload of rubber in it, maybe the ones you have are just a little bit more dense than yours, or maybe they have some extra clumps of rubber around.

or maybe daniel was weighing a partially used tire.

Originally posted by Daniel
XL, XZL, or Goodyear 54", I have a scale at the shop I guess it is off..



The XZL's are quite a bit heavier than the XL's aren't they?

I hear that the Goodyear tires are extremely stiff, but have not looked into them. Are they really that much stiffer than the Michelins? I saw a few of the big Godyears in a tire yard, but was looking for 48" XML's at the time.

Thanks,
Sean

Those look cool as heck with the grooving...you guys are making me want to spend money:eek:

Originally posted by Daniel
Goodyears are much stiffer i sell them to the Mud guys...

Also XZL is a little heavier

Find any XML's? bet not!:D


I found 6 of them, but they were a little rough. 1 of them had a 2"gash in the sidewall. The remaining ones were about 60% tread that looked like they had been used hard. They had little chunks out of the treads, and lots of deep scratches. Also all but like 2 of the tires had a little dry rotting going on.

It was funny, the guy that owned the tire yard said that "Michelin does not make a tire with a tread like that, only Goodyear does." I said, well, can I go look through your tires anyway(About an acre of tires stacked 15'+ high)? He let me, and a found a few of them. He couldn't believe that he had never heard of them or seen them. He said that they sure must not be too common.
What you are saying sounds liek you agree with him? They must be hard to find, at least in good condition? I never did find any of them in good enough condition that I wanted to buy them. I ended up going with XL's and I think I am glad that I did anyway. I think that they are going to make my buggy even better than the MXL's would have(Little tires :-). U-1300 axles can take it either way. I won't be breaking them I am sure.

Sean

how well will a bone stcok XL flex under a 2500# truck

IMHO, not at all!

Each tire is probably rated to carry more than twice the weight of your entire rig!

Remember, with these tires you are planning to use them for a purpose nothing like what they are designed for. They are tough, durable, heavy, and not at all sticky or flexy. Sure, if you have to have tires bigger than 44" you are stuck trying to make them work...but in my experience my 38" Xl's do not flex or stick nearly as well as my 36" TSL's did - even after being grooved. Also, you have to consider how much sidewall you are willing to cut, altho they do have pretty thick sidewalls.

Originally posted by BillaVista


IMHO, not at all!

Each tire is probably rated to carry more than twice the weight of your entire rig!

Remember, with these tires you are planning to use them for a purpose nothing like what they are designed for. They are tough, durable, heavy, and not at all sticky or flexy. Sure, if you have to have tires bigger than 44" you are stuck trying to make them work...but in my experience my 38" Xl's do not flex or stick nearly as well as my 36" TSL's did - even after being grooved. Also, you have to consider how much sidewall you are willing to cut, altho they do have pretty thick sidewalls.

The rubber on my 53" XL's seem to be allot softer than I thought it would be. With the super exact thumb nail test, it seems to me that the rubber is almost as soft as a TSL. The rubber on the tread definitely feels softer than Bogger rubber to me.
I recently heard from a friend who was an Army mechanic, that they only get about 10,000 miles out of these tires on a hemmitt(spelling?). I know each size of these tires was built for a specific purpose in mind. Is it possible that different sizes would have different compounds, or that the 52's would have a softer compound than smaller sizes? Seems the smaller tires were geared more for street use, as they have siping, and a bit of grooving from the basic design when they come from the factory, that the larger tires do not have.

What do you think?

Sean

Sean, I think you're right - it would be very difficult to make general statements about them all - they no doubt all have their specific characteristics. I do suspect that part of the reason for the short life on the BIG mil. trucks (not even gonna try and spell it :p ) is the enormous weight of the trucks and the serious abuse they get at the hands of the young drivers! I rode shotgun in a US Marine Corps Hummer once - talk about "drive it like you stole it!"

Are the really big ones (48+) also radials? It's always puzzled me how these radials are as tough as any bias swamper, and yet Interco can't seem to make a tough radial???

I say buy them, groove them, sipe them, and if they are still too hard run them through that tire softening stuff for a few hours each. I have heard that stuff works pretty well.

Originally posted by BillaVista
Sean, I think you're right - it would be very difficult to make general statements about them all - they no doubt all have their specific characteristics. I do suspect that part of the reason for the short life on the BIG mil. trucks (not even gonna try and spell it :p ) is the enormous weight of the trucks and the serious abuse they get at the hands of the young drivers! I rode shotgun in a US Marine Corps Hummer once - talk about "drive it like you stole it!"

Are the really big ones (48+) also radials? It's always puzzled me how these radials are as tough as any bias swamper, and yet Interco can't seem to make a tough radial???

Yes, the big ones are also radials. I think the reason that they are so tough is because the sidewall is like 1.75" thick:eek: :eek: .
The bead is 2" thick. That right there shows why they are so heavy. The tires ore so heavy that they actually squat an inch under their own weight when there is not wheel/air in them. Standing on the tire brings about another inch of squat, then they get pretty strong after that.

Another reason that I would say that they are so tough is because they have 5 steel plys(I think I got that right, Daniel?) in the sidewalls. I believe they are actually 14 plys when you count all of the other neat layers of material that they have thrown into there. They really payed attention to detail it seems. Here are some links to where you can see the features of the tires on Michelins online catalog.
pdf. files
XL (http://www.michelin- us.com/us/eng/tire/truck/tires/pdf/xl.pdf) XML (http://www.michelin-us.com/us/eng/tire/truck/tires/pdf/xml.pdf)
XZL (http://www.michelin-us.com/us/eng/tire/truck/tires/pdf/xzl.pdf)

Sean

Daniel, how about taking a junk michelin and cut it in half so we can see the cross section, gives us an idea of how the tire is built?

.

Another reason that I would say that they are so tough is because they have 5 steel plys(I think I got that right, Daniel?) in the sidewalls. I believe they are actually 14 plys when you count all of the other neat layers of material that they have thrown into there. .

Actually, the sidewalls are only one steel ply and the tread is 4-5 depending on size. But they are strong plys. I wouldn't drive on anything else.
Charlie

Originally posted by Charles Aarons
.

Another reason that I would say that they are so tough is because they have 5 steel plys(I think I got that right, Daniel?) in the sidewalls. I believe they are actually 14 plys when you count all of the other neat layers of material that they have thrown into there. .

Actually, the sidewalls are only one steel ply and the tread is 4-5 depending on size. But they are strong plys. I wouldn't drive on anything else.
Charlie

On my tires it is stamped on the side 1 ply tread, 5 ply sidewall.

Maybe it has something to do with the size difference?

Sean

Excellent links Sean, thanks.

Those pdf's have nice pics for photoshop grooving :)

Look at the weight ratings of some of the big guys....10-15, 000 lbs PER TIRE :eek: :eek:

Originally posted by Station


I know each size of these tires was built for a specific purpose in mind. Is it possible that different sizes would have different compounds, or that the 52's would have a softer compound than smaller sizes? Seems the smaller tires were geared more for street use, as they have siping, and a bit of grooving from the basic design when they come from the factory, that the larger tires do not have.

What do you think?

Sean

You are spot on. When I worked for goodyear, I learned this the hard way. Ever here of the Eagle GA? It was on EVERYTHING from Grand Cherokees to Volkswagen Jetta's. Over 40 different compounds and designs for the same name. Now multiply that by the number of tires they make... freaky.

The goodyears in that size range are EXTREMELY hard and stiff. You are going to find variations from tire to tire, but in general they are stiff. The goal in that type of tire is longevity both in "chunking" and mileage/time.

PS,

I can still get damn good pricing on Goodyear special application tires. The freight will KILL you though..... (HEAVY)....

j

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Station
[B]

On my tires it is stamped on the side 1 ply tread, 5 ply sidewall.

Maybe it has something to do with the size difference?

Look again. It's 1 ply sidewall, 5 ply tread.
Charlie

Originally posted by Charles Aarons
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Station
[B]

On my tires it is stamped on the side 1 ply tread, 5 ply sidewall.

Maybe it has something to do with the size difference?

Look again. It's 1 ply sidewall, 5 ply tread.
Charlie

You are very right! I just went and looked.

Sean

If some one is still interested in a tire cut in half let me know I can get a pic from one of my bad ones in a couple days!