Okay, so it’s not really a “build” as this axle comes from Keith basically ready to bolt in. I have to start off by saying a huge thank you to Keith. He has helped me so much getting ready for the race and gone above and beyond anything that I could have ever imagined. I owe you big time!!!! :smokin:

So as promised, onto the nitty gritty!

Pic 1. The Rovertracks 9 uses a Spidertrax 9in axle housing. This is the best axle housing you can buy. Okay, it’s arguable, but I stand by that statement. The tubes are 3in OD 3/8 wall DOM tubing. The center section is custom designed to be WAY stronger than any stock housing. The center grabs much more of the tube so that a truss should not be necessary. All fully welded inside and out, with the face machined after welding to insure that the mounting is perfecto!

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd299/buckon35s/IMG_1014.jpg

Pic 2. These spindles are simply bad ass. Custom made and heat treated to 36rc. The id is made to fit the 1.5in 35 spline axles. Up close you can see the quality.

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd299/buckon35s/IMG_1015-1.jpg

Pic 3. The axle has been shortened and offset to fit the output of the rover t-case. This one is 4in wider than a stock axle. It ended up being perfect for me to compliment the 6in wider than stock front. Here is a close-up of the axle flange. This is a custom piece machined by Keith. It’s a work of art. It’s fully welded inside and out and the fit is perfect. It attaches to the spindle using 6 grade 8 socket head cap screws.

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd299/buckon35s/IMG_1078.jpg

Pic 4. Other side. I used a little lock-tight to keep them in place and torqued them too tight, like I do everything. :D

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd299/buckon35s/IMG_1089.jpg

Pic 5. Brakes and hubs. This is where it starts getting interesting. These are Rover hubs. To make the kit work you have to take a rover hub and bore the inner and outer holes to fit the new races and bearings. It is press fit tolerance so pretty close. Here is a pic from the top. You can see the inner bearing pressed into place. It’s hard to see but the axle mount holes are bored out and tapped to 7/16 fine thread. This eliminates the broken bolts that always happen when you use a system like this.

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd299/buckon35s/IMG_1083.jpg

Pic 6. Here you can see the inner race pressed in. You will also notice that I drilled the rotors. It is not for weight saving, it is only for heat. I used a very conservative pattern as I didn’t want to risk cracking the rotors. Then I hand chamfered all the holes both sides and hand sanded the rotor so I would not cheese grade the pad. With this axle you can use BLING wildwood rotors and calipers. I chose to go Rover because I am a cheap bastard. That’s the only reason. I picked up the hubs, calipers, and rotors from Sterling (thanks!) for $40. You can’t beat that.

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd299/buckon35s/IMG_1084.jpg

Pic7. Rattlecan paint brings the bling!

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd299/buckon35s/IMG_1082.jpg

Pic 8. The bearings are a PERFECT fit. Seriously, way tighter tolerance than stock (but does that surprise anyone!)

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd299/buckon35s/IMG_1085.jpg

Pic 9. Here is the bearing in the hub and the outer seat tapped in, with a liberal coating of grease. I also painted up the hub and inside the rotor, because I am vain. Nothing rusts here!

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd299/buckon35s/IMG_1092.jpg

Pic 10. This is the completed axle assembly. Simple, light, and strong.

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd299/buckon35s/IMG_1093-1.jpg



I completely forgot to take pictures on the hub nuts installed. Not that you can’t picture what that looks like. This is as far as I have gotten, I will post up the axle installed when I get it back. Shafts are on the way from Keith. I am not doing ANY of the work to mount these under the truck. Yes, I am ashamed of that fact, but this late in the game I don’t have time to do my normal style of fab, which is to do it wrong, find out later, then fix it. :rolleyes: :flipoff2:

That carrier in the pic is a Currie 9+ with 6.20 gears and a big old 1350 Yoke. Way overkill for me but I figured, why not.

Here are the weight numbers:

Housing with outers and brakes, no third= 131LB
Third member= 76LB So assembled dry without shafts it is 207LB

These are my best guesses on the rest:
Shafts 35lb
Oil 8lb
Brackets and calipers 25lb

So finished and mounted axle will come in around 275lb give or take 5.

Keith can provide as much or as little axle as you want. It can be just the housing cut to length or the entire unit ready to bolt in.

Updates as I can get them!

AWESOME!! I hope I get to make it out to the race to watch it in action!

Cool Dave, keep the pics coming. On your hub I'd suggest drilling an extra five holes for flange bolts; that is the most current revision on my rear. I sheared the five bolts, even after drilling and tapping for 7/16 like you did, with 37s; I know Bill sheared one too and I think his were 7/16 also (he was on 36 or 38s). FWIW.

Pic from way back when it was done.

The Toyota guys seem to like adding dowel pins rather than extra bolts/studs. Haven't seen anyone do it with Rover stuff yet. Might be an interesting alternative to explore.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=122579&stc=1&d=1082347144

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=197192

Interesting. I haven't had any issue with mine on 7/16 yet, but thats good advice anyway. I am not nuts about removing that much material from the Hub though. Maybe the dowel would work!?

Actually, one nut on my axle flange was slightly bent. Don't ask me how it can happen to just one. I'll probably try the dowel idea, maybe.

Wow. Sweet tech. Nice fab work. Great shots. Now go kick some arse with that rear end!

Wow. Sweet tech. Nice fab work. Great shots. Now go kick some arse with that rear end!

Hey, you making fun of my pic snapping ability! :laughing:

We can't all be at your level you know! :smokin:

I've been running my hubs with 7/16 FT SCHS for a couple of years now. No sheared bolts, never a loose bolt either, even with 39.5" tires. Lots of loctite involved.

Very nice, can't wait to see more progress pics.:smokin:

So this will be a "kit" one could purchase from Keith?

Damn, that would be a strong set-up!

can do it as a kit or components for a DIY build.

Buy the housing, flanges, stub axles, axles etc from me and add the suspension brackets of your choice.

Hey, you making fun of my pic snapping ability! :laughing:

We can't all be at your level you know! :smokin:

Hehe, not poking fun. *Most* of them are sharp, and the sweetness of the tech makes up for the ones that aren't.

Very cool set-up, if you want to run a Yota front 9" rear combo, or do them one at a time. When I do my 9" swap one of my goals is a 5x5.5 bolt pattern so I can score some used Walker Evens beadlocks on the cheap, to me the ability to choose my favorite wheels and get a deal on used wheels is too big of an advantage for me to pass up.

Hi

What is the price if DIY kit ?

thanks
Ed

For you? $1 with a whole lot of zeros after it!!!

Really I've not nailed a good price for all the components.. Some folks are starting to ask as well as asking for prices of drop in's.

I paln to work these #'s our over the weekend.

Hi

What is the price if DIY kit ?

thanks
Ed

Go Keith its your birFdAY WORK IT!!! HAAAAAY!

Really ballpark figures but:

DIY= you add your tabs and caliper brackets. No third provided.
$1500. That's the stubs with bearings and seal, the flanges to weld onto the housing, axles. If I bore your hubs to fit the new bearings add $200.

Drop in, again minus the third, probably close to $2600. That's everything you add the third, your rotors, calipers and brake lines.

Could go up or down depending on my tab guy.

Add 2.5-3 grand to the price for a front, using Dedenbear knuckles and Longfield U Joints Chromoly inners, outers and flanges. There's a lot more going on in the front!

Again this is reusing the brakes, upgrades could be done easily I'd just have to pick a caliper.

Updates,

Not really. Just axle under truck:

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd299/buckon35s/IMG_1572.jpg

And front, just because:

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd299/buckon35s/IMG_1571.jpg

Happy new year all!

:eek:


lookin beefy.:smokin:

Hurry hurry!

the hubs look like the latter type? are they?

if so any reason you used these over the earlier ones that had the wheel bearings further apart?

cheers, Serg

Hey that looks familiar...I think I've been to that place before :flipoff2:

mmmmm nice :):):)

Looks great - any reason why the rear axle mounts are so low? You are probably trying to keep the stock (which is great) geometry, but wondering why you didn't move eveything up an inch or 2...

Cheers,
Nadim

the hubs look like the latter type? are they?

if so any reason you used these over the earlier ones that had the wheel bearings further apart?

cheers, Serg

No idea, but interesting question. These are hubs from a D1

Hey that looks familiar...I think I've been to that place before :flipoff2:

Hey, you get back to work! :flipoff2:

Looks great - any reason why the rear axle mounts are so low? You are probably trying to keep the stock (which is great) geometry, but wondering why you didn't move eveything up an inch or 2...

Cheers,
Nadim

Three reasons. One is the pinion angle has not been pushed up yet so the mounts will rotate up a bit. The second is it has to have the right amount of vertical separation on the mounts and I can't raise the top mount all that much farther because I run enough uptravel where the top of the 3 link mount comes close to the bottom of the floor in the back. And the third is, I didn't do the mounts. Blame Dallas. :p

Cool...3rd reason is weak though :flipoff2:

Here are a couple updated pics of the new axle. It's almost ready to be assembled.

im not sure of the date but early range rover hubs have the wheel bearings further apart, the outer bearing is further out.....

i will try and find more details

Serg

Got a couple more pics of the axle today. It's pretty much ready to drop in now. Just needs caliper brackets, brake lines, and a little welding of course.

I also took a couple pics of the front axle that's going in with it. It's not all that rover specific, but I figured David would like to see it.

im not sure of the date but early range rover hubs have the wheel bearings further apart, the outer bearing is further out.....

i will try and find more details

Serg

It's true the earlier hubs have a wider spacer bearing. The reason I chose to use the later hubs is availabilty over here, 94 and later Disco hubs are easy to find while rangie hubs are not. Considering that the wheel bearings are significantly bigger than stock (similar in size to a 1 Ton Truck front wheel bearing) I'm not to worried about the loading. All your new One ton trucks use unit bearings up front that have similar bearing spacing as these hubs, I'd wager that the weight of that Ford Diesel puts a greater load on the bearings than Daves truck will. All the rock racers using Spidertrax axles use unit bearings as well with good results.

It's true the earlier hubs have a wider spacer bearing. The reason I chose to use the later hubs is availabilty over here, 94 and later Disco hubs are easy to find while rangie hubs are not. Considering that the wheel bearings are significantly bigger than stock (similar in size to a 1 Ton Truck front wheel bearing) I'm not to worried about the loading. All your new One ton trucks use unit bearings up front that have similar bearing spacing as these hubs, I'd wager that the weight of that Ford Diesel puts a greater load on the bearings than Daves truck will. All the rock racers using Spidertrax axles use unit bearings as well with good results.

no worries, i never doubted the end result, was just currious and i figured availablity was the answer.

Serg

Got a couple more pics of the axle today. It's pretty much ready to drop in now. Just needs caliper brackets, brake lines, and a little welding of course.

I also took a couple pics of the front axle that's going in with it. It's not all that rover specific, but I figured David would like to see it.

Doesn't look like you have the mounts for the radius arms, are you going to a 3 link?

Yep, we're adding a 3rd link. Should have all the parts tomorrow to start putting it together.

Here's the last part of the rear axle's fabrication. I cut out these caliper mounts today. The hole in the center is aligned so that you can get a hex socket through to the spindle bolt behind it. The others just sneak by the sides.

Very nice. If you fab a three link, some here may ask you to send them kits for precut metal for them. Something to consider for the Toy crowd. And your SPIDEr niNe palZ.


Yep, we're adding a 3rd link. Should have all the parts tomorrow to start putting it together.

Here's the last part of the rear axle's fabrication. I cut out these caliper mounts today. The hole in the center is aligned so that you can get a hex socket through to the spindle bolt behind it. The others just sneak by the sides.

I'll have the tabs I'm going to be using on file in my computer since I'm cutting everything on the Torchmate table. However they probably wouldn't work on a toyota housing. Not that it'd be hard to make ones that did.

All brackets going on my axle are too sexy for reproduction.



:flipoff2:

OK fine Ill take the less sexy ones. doesnt matter! :D

More updates! Almost a roller!

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd299/buckon35s/102_3641-R12.jpg

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd299/buckon35s/102_3647-R12.jpg

A tiny bit different, huh?

The rear is all plumbed and bolted in now.

ok its almost time to go try to Bounty waterfall!

More updates! Almost a roller!

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd299/buckon35s/102_3641-R12.jpg

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd299/buckon35s/102_3647-R12.jpg

A tiny bit different, huh?

looks nice. Was there not enough room for the panhard mount on the axle end behind the tie rod?

Any kind of winch suck down point or droop limiter on the front?

Keep the pics coming!

Whats the final wheelbase gonna be?

Looks to be about 106" But that's just an eyeball..

Looks to be about 106" But that's just an eyeball..

does that make it 212" when you use 2 eyeballs? :flipoff2:

does that make it 212" when you use 2 eyeballs? :flipoff2::rainbow:

looks nice. Was there not enough room for the panhard mount on the axle end behind the tie rod?


Not if you want to keep the steering ram protected. Awesome setup.

sweet...

Thanks for the compliments guys. It's just about ready to go now, just gotta cycle the steering, and wait for the axle shafts to come in. It's off the stands and sitting on springs again.....ok so it's still on stands, but they are under the axles now :flipoff2:

Great work Dallas.. Very Clean!

ok its almost time to go try to Bounty waterfall!

Nooo. Not enough wheelbase to get up that. At least thats what I've been told. Never actually seen it.

looks nice. Was there not enough room for the panhard mount on the axle end behind the tie rod?

Any kind of winch suck down point or droop limiter on the front?

Keep the pics coming!

We tried to mount it back there. I tried hard. But in order to do it, Dallas would have had to mount in back from the axle over the lower link, curve out around past the pumpkin, under the upper link, then over to the other side. It would have been short and retarded if we did it that way. This way it is very long and straight, so much stronger than a bent unit. It's hard to tell but there is about 3/4 of an inch of uptravel left. The top of the diff comes almost inside the frame and the ram body is fully inside the frame with the shaft missing by 3/4 of an inch. You can see in this pic what we were up against.

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd299/buckon35s/clearance.jpg

On the limiting strap, definitely will run one. Just to keep the shocks alive when we air it out. I have never had a bad unloading problem with my front. May change with the new links, well see.

Looks to be about 106" But that's just an eyeball..


Your totally off. It's like 106.5. :flipoff2:

Went to SFR and saw the Rover tonight...VERY nice rig and the new setup is looking great!

Not if you want to keep the steering ram protected. Awesome setup.

The tie rod is protecting the ram, not the panhard...

The tie rod is protecting the ram, not the panhard...

Your both right. I think what he was referring to is that we could have done a panhard in a different location if I wasn't running hi-steer or the ram wasn't mounted up and behing the tierod like that.

This setup is not exactly easy. The gigantic frame, the extreme amount of uptravel, the lower hanging pulley, using a 3 link versus radius arm, the tight turning radius, the oversize components...they all added up. Dallas asked me last night to look to see how I would have fit a panhard in there. Plain and simple, I couldn't figure out another way that made sense and his works perfectly, is beefy enough, and doesn't look booty-fab.
With all of the factors combined, I think it was the best decision.

This setup is not exactly easy. The gigantic frame, the extreme amount of uptravel, the lower hanging pulley, using a 3 link versus radius arm, the tight turning radius, the oversize components...they all added up. Dallas asked me last night to look to see how I would have fit a panhard in there. Plain and simple, I couldn't figure out another way that made sense and his works perfectly, is beefy enough, and doesn't look booty-fab.
With all of the factors combined, I think it was the best decision.

Agreed. Here's the way mine came out, obviously the panhard runs from pass side frame to driver's knuckle, but the way I had these axles under my defender had the panhard dropping in the same way as Dave's but mounting axle attachment point behind the tie rod. The cylinder was in roughly the same location as Dave's...I'll try to dig up some of those pics. Granted mine isn't in hi hi steer and my 3rd (center) link has always been located below axle centerline.

Yeah, Stinkbug's work is nice, glad to see people modding rovers in different ways.

here is the current setup, sorry for the laziness, front end pics on page 3:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=706604&page=3&highlight=jtisdale

Running the tie rod in the standard (low) location would have made a huge difference. I could have moved the ram forward enough to get the panhard over the top of the axle pretty easily then......but the tie rod would be out front and low where you'd hit it a lot more often. There's always some give and take when trying to package things around a stock frame, and I think this one worked out pretty well. I cant wait to see this thing running at KOH.

Running the tie rod in the standard (low) location would have made a huge difference. I could have moved the ram forward enough to get the panhard over the top of the axle pretty easily then......but the tie rod would be out front and low where you'd hit it a lot more often. There's always some give and take when trying to package things around a stock frame, and I think this one worked out pretty well. I cant wait to see this thing running at KOH.

Here's to that:beer: Looking forward to getting to the Hammers for the first time too!

[QUOTE=Buckon37s;9130377]
This one is 4in wider than a stock axle. It ended up being perfect for me to compliment the 6in wider than stock front.[QUOTE]


I am doing something similar.
What did your front and rear WMS end up being?
What is your turning radius/angle with the upper links on the outside of the frame?

[QUOTE=Buckon37s;9130377]
This one is 4in wider than a stock axle. It ended up being perfect for me to compliment the 6in wider than stock front.[QUOTE]


I am doing something similar.
What did your front and rear WMS end up being?
What is your turning radius/angle with the upper links on the outside of the frame?

I was shooting for 82in but it ended up about 83.5 front and 82.5 in back. Ooops, thats outside of tires. WMS I don't know but will measure. Looong story on that one but it has to do with wheel offsets. With the stock lowers I am going to be around 45-48 degrees steering we guess. But it is limited more by the axle shafts than the links.

Thanks, I'm shooting for 80" front and rear. I've got the 39" Bias Iroks. That gives me some more insight.

Thanks, I'm shooting for 80" front and rear. I've got the 39" Bias Iroks. That gives me some more insight.

Hi,

Assuming that you run a 4in BS wheel and the crawlers are about 13in wide, you can only go 3.5in wider than stock in the front to get to 80in in width. And that will get into the lower links big time. If you go that route you would have to do something pretty cool to the lower links in order to steer. Good luck.

PS. My 9/60 front housing that is still for sale is the perfect width for you. Just saying. :D

Yeah, everything I keep coming up with has those links on the outside of the frame getting in the way.
4.63" back spacing on the wheels/ approx. 7.?" wms to outside face of tire, leaves about 66" wms to wms.

Thanks for the axle offer but I already have some of my parts.

Yeah, everything I keep coming up with has those links on the outside of the frame getting in the way.
4.63" back spacing on the wheels/ approx. 7.?" wms to outside face of tire, leaves about 66" wms to wms.

Thanks for the axle offer but I already have some of my parts.

Keep us posted. Sounds cool to be sure.

But it is too skinny IMO.

Cheers

Keep us posted. Sounds cool to be sure.

But it is too skinny IMO.

Cheers

I'm shooting for +/- 50" top of tub. Hopefully that will help the "skinny".

Yeah, everything I keep coming up with has those links on the outside of the frame getting in the way.
4.63" back spacing on the wheels/ approx. 7.?" wms to outside face of tire, leaves about 66" wms to wms.

Thanks for the axle offer but I already have some of my parts.


wheel spacers aren't ideal but a solution if you already have axles and wheels. I'm at 82" track width like that (upper front links in the stock location). Hijack over Buck...let's see some pics, I heard you were picking up your truck the other day?

I'm shooting for +/- 50" top of tub. Hopefully that will help the "skinny".

You gotta start a build thread for us. I'm really interested. My tub is at 55in with 3in of lift and 40's. I can't see how 50in is possible.

I am kind of stuck at 52", but still thinking.

Here it is... http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=547642

I hope I will be able to get some work done on it soon. I've been collecting parts over the last year but didn't want to post until I was able to build and assemble.





P.S. I'm not trying to take over your thread.

I am kind of stuck at 52", but still thinking.

Here it is... http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=547642

I hope I will be able to get some work done on it soon. I've been collecting parts over the last year but didn't want to post until I was able to build and assemble.





P.S. I'm not trying to take over your thread.

No worries! Keep us posted.

I got a call from Dave saying that he had some trouble with his lower link mounts up front (not the ones I built). So I got a few dimensions from him and cut out some new brackets for him to weld onto the car. Since I had the Torchmate running, and I know how much people love watching this thing (including me) I went ahead and mounted up my video camera.

Here's the video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndDdOM4ssnw

Boooyeah!!!

WHATever man.. I'll race that thing with my angle grinder and hand drill any day. shieeet.

ok fine fine.. I want one. everybody wants one.

That is NUTS fast/clean/accurate...

What did you end up doing for the front hubs/spindles? It looks like you were able to keep the 5x6.5 wheels using the dana 60 knuckles. Just curious, i have a similar axle project going right now for my buggy and i'd like to be able to keep the 15" rover wheels.

What did you end up doing for the front hubs/spindles? It looks like you were able to keep the 5x6.5 wheels using the dana 60 knuckles. Just curious, i have a similar axle project going right now for my buggy and i'd like to be able to keep the 15" rover wheels.

I'll tell you exactly how to do it. I may even do it for you if you buy my Rover9 rear axle for the amazing epic deal of $1000. Seriously. Otherwise, I'll take my secret to the grave. :flipoff2:

Thanks, i didn't realize that kind of information was worth $1000.

Thanks, i didn't realize that kind of information was worth $1000.

The axle is worth $1500, at the amazing price of $1000. The info is free. :flipoff2:

It's as simple as knocking out the studs, and redrilling the hubs. Works great, but the end product is only as good as your fab skills. I did it on a CNC as I wanted true center so the tire didn't wabble.

Thanks for the info. I might be interested in that housing if I was building a LR buggy, but I just decided to go full tube. I hope it sells for you.

Thanks for the info. I might be interested in that housing if I was building a LR buggy, but I just decided to go full tube. I hope it sells for you.

If your going full tube, dump the rover pattern. You'll save a lot of money with junkyard 60's and whatever you want wheels.

You're absolutely right. I've been going back and forth on this for a month. Problem is i already invested some money in 15" wheels/tires along with a bunch of other stuff and don't feel like starting over right now. I think i'll just make what i have work for now as i just really need to get this chassis rolling. It's been sitting on jack stands for a month under my lift and i need to get the Rover down. Next year i'll probably just put these axles under my zuk and blow my wad on some spidertrax. I'd really love their ultimate knuckles and unit bearings.