Ok, I've heard many different opinions on the TTB front ends, but most of them unfavorable.

So what's the stigma here? Are they junk? Were they junk from the factory? Some folks talk about them like they were Yugo's, mopeds, or really fat girlfriends, ashamed to let their buddies know they have one. (no offense to anyone lovin on the bigguns, but the yugo an moped folks, you're on your own.)

Been looking for half-ton axle donors for a project, and it seems to be a consistent "stay away from the ttb's" like a bad scene from poltergeist or that ebeneezer scrooge christmas story.

What's the deal? They are still on the road, and seem to live as long as the trucks they were born to. Is it just a geometry headache? Lifting and keeping the angles like they are supposed to be too much of a pita?

I know little to nothing about them, never owned one, but they are everywhere down here and I need axles and they are, well, available.

Educate me!:confused:

So you are wanting to put a TTB front end into another rig:confused:

mine worked well enough with 35s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BS-XHOLgGt8)

Depends on what TTB (28, 35, 44 ?), depends on what tire you plan to run, depends on what rig its in, depends on what you plan to do with said rig.

So you are wanting to put a TTB front end into another rig:confused:

Thinking of using an entire rolling chassis, frame down. TTB trucks are cheap and plentiful, so I want to learn the pros/cons on them before I buy one and learn something the hard and expensive way.

Thinking of using an entire rolling chassis, frame down. TTB trucks are cheap and plentiful, so I want to learn the pros/cons on them before I buy one and learn something the hard and expensive way.

before you make yourself look like a dumbass here.

wtf do you want to do with the truck, tire size and all that chit. It's been asked and never answered.

Depends on what TTB (28, 35, 44 ?), depends on what tire you plan to run, depends on what rig its in, depends on what you plan to do with said rig.

you forgot the 50,although it's basically the same as the 44.

before you make yourself look like a dumbass here.

C'mon man, that's half the fun!

wtf do you want to do with the truck, tire size and all that chit. It's been asked and never answered.

Looking for a half-ton rolling chassis to put a small diesel motor in and set a jeep tub and modified bed onto. Ideal tire size will be 35", Motor is less than 100hp unless i turbo it which is an after-the-fact. Mid 4:1 ratio diffs, whatever is cheap and readily avail.

It' NOT a rock crawler build or offroad race truck, but a mild build, hopefully economical from start to finish, for my wife to play with. It will never have larger than 35" tires (yeah yeah, ya'll heard that before). My wife is disabled, and it's everything she can do to get into my DD un-assisted (05 ram 2500 6" on 35's w/step rail sliders)(ok, so I like assisting her into my truck because it involves my hands and her butt, but anyways :p )

I have a complete, flooded 91 wrangler for the tub and front cap, and she wants something that looks like a jeep, so there that is.
I want it to have one of my mercedes diesel engines for simplicity, reliability, and economy, so there that is.
All I need now is a rolling frame-down half-ton fullsize truck. So here I am, asking what's the deal with the TTB front ends and whether they are reliable or junk or wtf.

I think that covers it.

Other then a set of pinion bearings at 100 000 miles, my d35 TTB did fine with 33"s, ~150hp and stock gears in my Ranger (3.73s) YMMV, but I had no problem with it, and miss the little truck. I would have locked it up and found out what broke had I kept it...

Youll probably be fine with a light body, small diesel, and 35's on D44 TTB. The main PITA is when daily driven, lotsa miles... TTB has alot of parts that wear and cause alignment issues and odd tire wear when tons of miles are put on them. Trail only? Who cares about bushings let that shit flop around and run it.

Do a search for cut turn beam, turn TTB, whatever the key words are if it were mine i would do cut/turned beams with as little lift as possible and have fun. Front locker and manual lockouts and it will be arguably as good as a solid D44.

Actually, if it were mine i would just start with a solid axle F150 but whatever floats your boat.

Actually, if it were mine i would just start with a solid axle F150 but whatever floats your boat.

I was already leaning in that direction, but figured I'd pose the question on the TTB anyways, because they are everywhere for cheap. Solid axle trucks are not as available, and when I do find one they are older than dirt, buried in dirt, and probably in worse shape than the axles on the flooded jeep I have.

i would NEVER toss a TTB axle in any rig, ive been wheelin my TTB 28 for over a year and hate it. if you look hard enough youll find a cheap solid 44 to toss under any rig you want. now if you currently have a TTB id say wheel the piss outof it till you got a solid axle.

Ok, I've heard many different opinions on the TTB front ends, but most of them unfavorable.

I'm going to consider my first thought to be validated. That last comment drove it home for me! Long story short, their ok, but even they guys with them would recommend solid axles. I had to ask though, I may have just been hearing the ford-hater version of the story up till now. You never really know till you ask. Thanks folks, gonna resume hunting a solid axle truck now!

i would NEVER toss a TTB axle in any rig, ive been wheelin my TTB 28 for over a year and hate it. if you look hard enough youll find a cheap solid 44 to toss under any rig you want. now if you currently have a TTB id say wheel the piss outof it till you got a solid axle.

You sir have the tiniest TTB out of all of them :shaking: . Of course a D28 is a total piece of shit that doesn't belong under anything bigger than a golf cart with it's toothpicks for axles. (have you not been made aware of this before too? I think...)

The D35, D44 and D50 TTBs are all quite sturdy setups (The D44 TTB was essentially created out of a solid HP D44 just by adding one more u-joint to the middle, and is much the same in strength overall. The D35 (Rangers/Explorers) shares many parts like u-joints with the D44 as well). I would probably shy away from trucks with D50s though because it uses leaf springs which do nothing but bind up with more than a few inches of movement.

The big thing with TTBs IS the geometry. Probably the biggest reason people tend to diss them is virtually the entire suspension industry has made errors when designing suspension lifts for them. Because of this numerous people have had problems with them ranging from poor handling and tire wear problems (due to the steering being all fawked up), to bent/cracked brackets (and even having them crack the truck frame), to uber-stiff coil springs that don't flex for shit. These issues happening so often is basically why the TTB has the image it does.

If you build it right (sturdy axle brackets that don't tweak, maintain CORRECT steering geometry, use coils better suited to flex, etc.), you'll avoid the tire headache and will be able to take it pretty much everywhere anything else goes with no problems.


Yes, the "stigma" with TTBs is definitely high for sure. IMO, I think this actually makes it more fun to run them. You come up behind some joe schmoe & his solid axle truck and toodle right on over the same rock he just did with your TTB "junk" while he just stands there and thinks to himself... "that wasn't supposed to happen" :p

I do this all the time in my BII with the D35 TTB. :D
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/6/web/702000-702999/702959_97.jpg (http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/6/web/702000-702999/702959_97_full.jpg)

The big thing with TTBs IS the geometry. Probably the biggest reason people tend to diss them is virtually the entire suspension industry has made errors when designing suspension lifts for them. Because of this numerous people have had problems with them ranging from poor handling and tire wear problems (due to the steering being all fawked up), to bent/cracked brackets (and even having them crack the truck frame), to uber-stiff coil springs that don't flex for shit. These issues happening so often is basically why the TTB has the image it does.

That single paragraph sums up my opinion going into this on the TTB's, that is was the geometry going all out of whack trying to lift it and such. Having said that, let me pose this question to you:

In STOCK form, we're talking stock springs and radius arms, is the articulation pretty good? When I take the fenders out of the equation, how's the steering lock to lock? Did they run a normal sway bar?

I have seen some of these trucks where the owner absolutely loved and swore by them, tires wore really well, but they were stock setups with one or two sizes over on tires. Then like you have described, I have seen some that even with a mild lift, looked like a pigeon toed rhino with the front tires slicked off.

What is it's biggest weakness? In stock form, what makes it a lesser axle than the solid axle?

In stock form, the bushings wear out quicker is aboout the biggest thing i've seen with all of the farm truck we have, but thats do to the fact that the suspension moves a lot more than the solid axle trucks, strength wise, bout the only downside on stock vs. stock d44 ttb vs. solid axle would be the gay ass auto locking hubs used on later ttb truck can't handle anything more than daily driving 4wd conditions, but thats an easy fix.

In stock form, the bushings wear out quicker is aboout the biggest thing i've seen with all of the farm truck we have, but thats do to the fact that the suspension moves a lot more than the solid axle trucks, strength wise, bout the only downside on stock vs. stock d44 ttb vs. solid axle would be the gay ass auto locking hubs used on later ttb truck can't handle anything more than daily driving 4wd conditions, but thats an easy fix.

I beg to differ. Mine are handling 35" BFG's just fine :flipoff2:

the bushings wear out quicker

The radius arm bushings? That's pretty much to be expected I guess.

gay ass auto locking hubs

Yeah, I feel ya, there won't be any of that. I want either a live axle or manual hubs, I've never been a fan of auto/remote hubs. I want to put my hands on something and say either YES it's in, or NO it's not.

That single paragraph sums up my opinion going into this on the TTB's, that is was the geometry going all out of whack trying to lift it and such.
You can lift them no problem, but you have to pay attention to any shortcomings in the suspension lift you're using (there's bound to be several) and correct them where needed. In the case of pitman arms, just because it says "made for a (X) inch lift" doesn't always mean it will work properly with that lift, many come up short, leaving the steering all out of whack.


Having said that, let me pose this question to you:

In STOCK form, we're talking stock springs and radius arms, is the articulation pretty good? When I take the fenders out of the equation, how's the steering lock to lock? Did they run a normal sway bar?
In stock form they're nothing special, although the same could probably be said about a stock SA Ford too. Short stock shocks are what's to blame here.
The TTB swaybar is usually a typical style bar with double-eye end links, although early Rangers had one mounted inside the radius arms. Total removal of the swaybar on a TTB I think has less impact on handling than with a SA though, I know my BII handles well enough on the street where most of the others I'm with running Jeeps have to pin up their swaybars every time they hit the road. I'd say just dump it entirely.
Turning radius? Mine turns waaaayy tight :eek: (tighter than a Jeep probably by a good couple feet, even in spite of the 98" wheelbase I run). Whether this is because of something unique in how the TTB behaves or if it actually does turn the wheels sharper I'm not sure. All I know is I like how it turns. Tight twisty trails like Dusy/Ershim (if you've been thru there) are way easy for me.



I have seen some of these trucks where the owner absolutely loved and swore by them, tires wore really well, but they were stock setups with one or two sizes over on tires. Then like you have described, I have seen some that even with a mild lift, looked like a pigeon toed rhino with the front tires slicked off.

What is it's biggest weakness? In stock form, what makes it a lesser axle than the solid axle?

In stock form, I don't think there's a whole lot to differentiate them. All the parts are the same (axleshaft size, u-joints, all the guts inside the diff are interchangeable with any other HP D44). Some may argue the c-channel axle beams are weaker than the round tube of the SA (and is probably true), although this wouldn't be hard to remedy by boxing them up with a plate welded on the back.
It's mostly when lifting them things can bite you. Like I mentioned above, if you maintain the geometry (the steering in particular) you can avoid most of the headaches that commonly surround it.

Check out www.therangerstation.com. Even if it's a fullsize you're after, there is a lot of TTB tech floating around there (more than here, and it's not all hi-$$ desert-racer stuff either). You might be able to pick up some more good info on it. ;)

You can lift them no problem

If things pan out the way I hope they will, I shouldn't need a lift over stock. There won't be any fenders or quarters in the way for the tires to contact at full tuck.

Total removal of the swaybar on a TTB I think has less impact on handling than with a SA though

I agree to nix it entirely, this thing will see very little if any road time.

Turning radius? Mine turns waaaayy tight

Excellent! No, wait, Damnit! Now I've back to seriously considering a bronco or swb F150, lol. But atleast I'm armed with a lot more useful info. Gonna check the out the rangerstation and see what I can learn.

.
Turning radius? Mine turns waaaayy tight :eek: (tighter than a Jeep probably by a good couple feet, even in spite of the 98" wheelbase I run). Whether this is because of something unique in how the TTB behaves or if it actually does turn the wheels sharper I'm not sure. All I know is I like how it turns. Tight twisty trails like Dusy/Ershim (if you've been thru there) are way easy for me.



This is the one thing I miss from my TTB. When my ranger had a TTB it could flat turn sharp. Now I have a jeep wagoneer axle under the front. I can hit the steering stops between the housing and knuckle but it still will not turn as sharp as it did with the TTB. I am not talking a few inches it takes feet more to turn in. Add the welded rear and locked front and I feel like I am driving the USS Ronald Regan.

Worst case if the TTB doesnt work a solid axle isnt very hard to put under it.

In STOCK form, we're talking stock springs and radius arms, is the articulation pretty good? When I take the fenders out of the equation, how's the steering lock to lock? Did they run a normal sway bar?

Depends on the rig, my B2 with stock front suspension and no swaybar. A leaf sprung rig would be a lot stiffer.
http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/3851/flex2am7.jpg

You sir have the tiniest TTB out of all of them :shaking: . Of course a D28 is a total piece of shit that doesn't belong under anything bigger than a golf cart with it's toothpicks for axles. (have you not been made aware of this before too? I think...)




i am well aware of the 28 being a POS but as i said i would NEVER toss a TTB under any rig, this is why i have a full width 44 going under it in the spring instead of a 35 :flipoff2:



anyway as for the TTB flexing and handling on the street without the sway bar it isnt bad at all, i had my sway bars off for a long time and i still drive it on the street, i dont drive it very far just mainly around town and to the trails. id say i gaind twice as much travel in the front and rear with the sway bars removed


heres my stock suspention almost maxed ontop of 33" boggers
http://imnotmark.zapto.org:3030/b2/MM-Day/014-s6300034.jpg

and here i am flexing it out on a local trail, this was MAXED
http://imnotmark.zapto.org:3030/b2/MM-Day/021-s6300042.jpg

liek i said TTB isnt bad if done right, ive seen alot of guys running awsome setups but i would never sink money into a TTB, thats just me

ill add this last pic, you can see why im doing the 44 swap if you look closly. this is the oposite side with the front fully compressed at the bumpstop and the rear fully drooping down.

http://imnotmark.zapto.org:3030/b2/MM-Day/022-s6300043.jpg

Yes, the "stigma" with TTBs is definitely high for sure. IMO, I think this actually makes it more fun to run them. You come up behind some joe schmoe & his solid axle truck and toodle right on over the same rock he just did with your TTB "junk" while he just stands there and thinks to himself... "that wasn't supposed to happen" :p

We must live within geographical areas that display different constants of physics and gravity because this was never my experience. On the trail TTB is flat-out unstable. With no forced articulation it drops wheels into holes and takes the whole truck w it. I think some underwear is still stuck up my ass from a few scary moments like this on descents. I later 'wheeled the same lines w a solid axle and could not believe how drama-free it became, while the truck stayed level and controlled.

Likewise on steep climbs TTB (for reasons I cannot adequately explain as I am not well-versed in chassis & susp design) shifts the weight to the rear of the vehicle and lifts front wheels. Take the exact same vehicle on the exact same climb and throw a solid axle under it and the symptoms disappear. BTDT

Furthermore I have yet to see any obstacle in a general trail or 'crawling environment where TTB "schooled" a solid axle rig of the same wheelbase on the same line. At best we'd be amazed if TTB made it w a minimal struggle.

Finally w the travel and forced articulation of a solid axle the need for lockers simply vanishes in many instances. If running driver-selectable TAD's you'll be amazed at how little you have to use those switches once a live axle lives up front. BTDT

As for the question of articulation in stock form, there's a variety of problems. First, the beams are not equal length, so theoretically one is gonna travel more than the other, altho I've never taken the time to observe if this happens. The radius arms are just too damn short and bind too quickly when drooping. And w 33x12.50's on TTB44 you'll get the lugs into the radius arms pretty easy at full lock. It seems all steering stops were set at various random points from the factory, so it depends upon where yours are now AND what people have become used to and thus accepted as "normal" turning radius for their TTB vehicle.

RA bushings are not the only issue, but you've got pivot bushings which wear and are a PITA to replace. The 3rd inner u-joint is just an example of piss-poor bandaid engineering I might think clever on Junkyard Wars, but pathetic from a Big 3 automaker.

Just jacking up the front of a TTB truck is an adventure requiring either one helluva jack saddle extension to jack off the xmember, or two floor jacks. Then putting jackstands back under it and watching the stands tip outboard as the arms settle is enough to make you think about all those pics of guys squashed by vehicles on their garage floor.

The whole TTB xmember is a joke, too, made necessary by the attempt of hinging a solid axle. At the very least oil pan gasket changes become a full weekend ordeal.

Overall ground clearance suffers on the trail because the TTB beams simply hang lower and present more frontal area to the trail than the round tube of a soild axle. Even the pig/center section has a lip below it in a poor attempt at adding rigidity to the beams - which are not rigid at all. The best thing you can do here is cut the "cover" out of the TTB beam and use it as a cover for a solid 44 'cause they are thicker than a solid axle cover.

Then there's more bandaid engineering w the "Y" steering linkages, also necessary only 'cause you can't run a one-piece tie rod between knuckles when they move independently. And I'll tell you I ran the Superrunner steering for a while (which adds an idler arm and equal length tie rods) with no noticeable improvement in tire wear or handling.

and on and on and on...........

Also I'll leave you w this which I did not author. While it would be easy to dismiss it as "hate" there are a great deal of many valid points:

The History of TTB

"TTB tech and enlightenment article

Fords TTB *twin traction beam* first showed up on the 1980 model
Ford 1/2 ton truck line. Ford credits a fella at Ford engeneering
named "Rupert B Tard" for the concept and design of the TTB.
Although it is widely understood that this design was a copywrite
swindle if there ever was one, but Bolens, makers of fine
garden/lawn tractors was not interested in pursuing any legal
action stating in a press release "it sucked actually let them
have it,we couldn't get them to mow a straight line" (of interest
Bolens admits the idea of their front suspension was garnered
from a blueprint they latter learned was redrawn by a fella that
worked in the mail room after he had spilled his coffee on the
original and didn't want to get in trouble)

How does it work: The TTB as Ford built it is a interesting
suspension..first off one would like to point out that apparently
they designed it to bend/move alot like a limp pasta noodle for
Ride quality. So what we have is a axle that is two
pieces...designed to flex considerably and move through a arch to
promote nice Caddilac type ride in a truck. Now thinking about
this one must ask themselves...why build a suspension to
move....THEN as you do that, also design it so any time it does
actually move it causes other issues? Apparently they realized
that if they limmited how much the front flexed, they would have
also cured the problems associated with it flexing. Much like a
reverse engineered straight axle..you could simulate what
happened here very easily with household tools if a understanding
required looking at a scale model.

Model exercise: Take a straight axle Dana 44 and sawzall or torch
the axle in half about 2/3 of the axle length being one piece,
and the remaining 1/3 the other. Now bolt on a barn hinge to
facilitate ataching the two axle halves. This should give you a
rough concept of the engeneering involved here and why Ford
choose to keep it from moving *as much as possible* in the actual
production built trucks.

The simple design of the TTB also required a interesting dillema
when it came to steering it. After all a tie rod can't be built
of flexable plastic or something simular...and a tie rod that
changes length was out..so without the technology for these two
possible solutions to the need for flexable steering it was found
that if they created enough links and connections in the
steering...the natural slop would allow it to function if they
kept it once again from traveling more than a few inches.

Memo from Ford test driver: It exhibits a want to be driven like
a hay wagon...with constant correction and high attention to
direction it sure does ride nice.

After many differant solutions were tried a think tank at Ford
concluded that the correct way to market this axle was to seek
the Gray Haired ladies and gents who were past fighter pilots and
pin ball wizards thus a market segment in retired seniors with
incredable reflexes, and excellant hand eye cordination were
sought to buy these trucks.

Over view: The above basically explains what the goal of Ford was
regarding the TTB suspension design and some history behind it.
One must marvel at the goals achieved as well as the engeneering
required to build an axle with such a deviance from what was the
industry standard.

Alighnment specs:

Caster: Changes every foot it drives *when adjusting read Fords
special bullitan on personal mental health for the line mechanic"

Camber: Specs here very with each truck and side to side on the
same truck " Ford Service bullitan #21548 TTB Alighnment:
dictates the following procedure. " Pretend to adjust,charge
accordingly and smile and nodd and tell the tructh " tiz as good
as it gets"

Toe: To adjust this you must have a ridged platform..no wind, and
please do not use a actual alighnment machine. A limp string and
scotch tape being a better plan. Also something as simple as the
earths gravitational pull can affect the toe settings. When a
final adjustment is complete... do NOT move the truck or all your
work will be for naught *Again consult Fords special bullitan on
personal mental health for the line mechanic"

;-) "

been on countless wheeling trips and these are very evenly matched. both locked f/r on 33s. you can chit chat this all day but 100s of trail miles speaks the truth

Also I'll leave you w this which I did not author. While it would be easy to dismiss it as "hate" there are a great deal of many valid points:

The History of TTB

"TTB tech and blah blah blah

Whether you authored it or not you need to be slapped for posting that abortion of spelling, grammar and structure here.

Whether you authored it or not you need to be slapped for posting that abortion of spelling, grammar and structure here.

I found it mildy amusing. Meh.

I've wheeled the shit out of my D44/50 hybrid and had good luck with it after I threw in chromoly outers and full circle snap rings. I run a power-lok limited slip, 34" LTB's and a healthy injected 302. Without good Spicer joints and full circle snap rings I was literally shooting u-joint caps out of the axles...

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h250/D3thM3tal/F150Front.jpg
Tire angle looks funny because I backed up the driveway - even if you have a little angle it really makes the tires bite. 2" lift with stock coils - does better then EVER expected.

I whomp the shit out of it and the alignment seems to stay - I drive this thing to most of the events I trail ride. When I got the truck I replaced the radius arm pivot bushings and installed drop brackets... been trouble free for me.

I found it mildy amusing. Meh.


I'm neutral as to content, my problem is with the dyslexic third grader that spewed it onto the internet without having an adult check his spelling and with D60 for copy/pasting it here without a good cleanup.
;)

Now back to the regularly scheduled SA vs TTB discussion. :stirthepot:

Again consult Fords special bulletin on
personal mental health for the line mechanic

Nice.

Suprised my F350 SRW 4x4 didn't come with a TTB to match the 6.0 Troublediesel engine.

Ok Ladies, I think I have learned my lesson and am ready to put this one to rest.

Solid axle it shall be.

Besides, I caught the snag I've been overlooking this whole time... clearance for that DAMNED front sump mercedes oil pan. I've been stirring this TTB pot for nothing (not really, i've learned alot about them).

Nice.

Suprised my F350 SRW 4x4 didn't come with a TTB to match the 6.0 Troublediesel engine.

Ok Ladies, I think I have learned my lesson and am ready to put this one to rest.

Solid axle it shall be.

Besides, I caught the snag I've been overlooking this whole time... clearance for that DAMNED front sump mercedes oil pan. I've been stirring this TTB pot for nothing (not really, i've learned alot about them).

Also learn that "a lot" is two words. :flipoff2:

Also learn that "a lot" is two words. :flipoff2:

Yeah, I hear that alot :P

We must live within geographical areas that display different constants of physics and gravity because this was never my experience. On the trail TTB is flat-out unstable. With no forced articulation it drops wheels into holes and takes the whole truck w it. I think some underwear is still stuck up my ass from a few scary moments like this on descents. I later 'wheeled the same lines w a solid axle and could not believe how drama-free it became, while the truck stayed level and controlled.

Likewise on steep climbs TTB (for reasons I cannot adequately explain as I am not well-versed in chassis & susp design) shifts the weight to the rear of the vehicle and lifts front wheels. Take the exact same vehicle on the exact same climb and throw a solid axle under it and the symptoms disappear. BTDT

Furthermore I have yet to see any obstacle in a general trail or 'crawling environment where TTB "schooled" a solid axle rig of the same wheelbase on the same line. At best we'd be amazed if TTB made it w a minimal struggle.

Finally w the travel and forced articulation of a solid axle the need for lockers simply vanishes in many instances. If running driver-selectable TAD's you'll be amazed at how little you have to use those switches once a live axle lives up front. BTDT



If only we were closer to each other, I'd say lets go hit up a good trail and you could see for yourself none of that is true if it's set up correctly.

All of what you mention comes from things I've already said in this thread.
Try putting coils twice as stiff as necessary on a solid axle and watch it drop into a hole and take the whole truck with it just the same.
The all-too-common shitty steering geometry you get after lifting exacerbates many of the TTBs issues as well (such as the lifting on hillclimbs because the steering has pulled the tires so far toed-in they're literally trying to drive toward each other). The Superrunner kit is a flawed execution of what could be a fine performing system, so I'm not the least bit surprised you didn't have much luck with it.



As for the question of articulation in stock form, there's a variety of problems. First, the beams are not equal length, so theoretically one is gonna travel more than the other, altho I've never taken the time to observe if this happens. The radius arms are just too damn short and bind too quickly when drooping. And w 33x12.50's on TTB44 you'll get the lugs into the radius arms pretty easy at full lock. It seems all steering stops were set at various random points from the factory, so it depends upon where yours are now AND what people have become used to and thus accepted as "normal" turning radius for their TTB vehicle.
The unequal length beams serve two purposes:
1. (most obvious), the passengerside is shorter to make room for the diff.
2. The shorter beam (combined with its further aft mounting point) allows for duplicating the same range of motion at the wheel end as the driverside, making both sides suspension movement symmetrical. This is because the pivoting axis actually runs in a straight line between pivot point to radius arm bushing.

Never ran into this steering stop issue you mention...



The 3rd inner u-joint is just an example of piss-poor bandaid engineering I might think clever on Junkyard Wars, but pathetic from a Big 3 automaker.

Well, that's just your opinion. :shaking:


Just jacking up the front of a TTB truck is an adventure requiring either one helluva jack saddle extension to jack off the xmember, or two floor jacks. Then putting jackstands back under it and watching the stands tip outboard as the arms settle is enough to make you think about all those pics of guys squashed by vehicles on their garage floor.

I jack mine up like you would any other vehicle. :confused:


The whole TTB xmember is a joke, too, made necessary by the attempt of hinging a solid axle. At the very least oil pan gasket changes become a full weekend ordeal.

You say that like it's a common thing to replace a pan gasket. Maybe if you used a quality gasket you wouldn't have to worry about that.


Overall ground clearance suffers on the trail because the TTB beams simply hang lower and present more frontal area to the trail than the round tube of a soild axle. Even the pig/center section has a lip below it in a poor attempt at adding rigidity to the beams - which are not rigid at all. The best thing you can do here is cut the "cover" out of the TTB beam and use it as a cover for a solid 44 'cause they are thicker than a solid axle cover.

So raise up your suspension height, it's probably sagging down. It's infact very possible to have MORE clearance under a TTB than a solid axle just by adding coil spacers or putting longer springs in.



Then there's more bandaid engineering w the "Y" steering linkages, also necessary only 'cause you can't run a one-piece tie rod between knuckles when they move independently. And I'll tell you I ran the Superrunner steering for a while (which adds an idler arm and equal length tie rods) with no noticeable improvement in tire wear or handling.



Finally! something we can agree on.

...

mjlogan I think said it best, nothing speaks the truth any better than actually being out on the trail
Some of these pics (http://www.cardomain.com/ride/702959/4/) should show at the absolute very least a TTB works a hell of a lot better than any of the weak and complicated A-arm IFS crap most new vehicles are encumbered with.

Defender past the end.... :shaking:

TTB is the most awesome suspension ever.
:rolleyes:

I beg to differ. Mine are handling 35" BFG's just fine :flipoff2:

You got auto locking hubs on your Solid 44? :laughing:

(assuming your talking about the truck in your sig)

You got auto locking hubs on your Solid 44? :laughing:

(assuming your talking about the truck in your sig)

You're running 35's on a TTB? :laughing:

Sarcasim escapes many. Poor lass

BLAH BLAH BLAH I'm ghey...................... at the absolute very least a TTB works a hell of a lot better than any of the weak and complicated A-arm IFS crap most new vehicles are encumbered with.

So herpes is at the very least better than AIDS. I dont really want either.

You're running 35's on a TTB? :laughing:

Sarcasim escapes many. Poor lass

Yep blew up a set of warns but other than that its been great. :flipoff2:
Its my dd and im a broke college kid so i dont wheel often anymore.

Does anyone have a good clear shot of the frame and axle from the engine bay, like a picture with the motor out, looking down? Trying to get a feel for where everything is and whether or not I can make clearance for my front sump oil pan. A nice clean shot from underneath looking up at an angle would be nice too. I'm wondering if I'll have to move the motor rearward or not to clear.

It's just dawning on me that with my approach to this build, I may be able to get away with putting things wherever the hell I want. I may be able to simply move the motor and tub to the rear to get away from the axle.

Defender past the end.... :shaking:

TTB is the most awesome suspension ever.
:rolleyes:

Well when something is said that is entirely 100% the opposite of what my experience has been, no reason for me not to say my side on it...
Forums like these are here so everyone can share their ideas and opinions about all the various subjects that shape our hobby into what it is, no? :)

So herpes is at the very least better than AIDS. I dont really want either.
hahaha that was funny... You know deep down you wish you could make the shit work so you wouldn't have to go through the job of swapping it out so quick :flipoff2:

Does anyone have a good clear shot of the frame and axle from the engine bay, like a picture with the motor out, looking down? Trying to get a feel for where everything is and whether or not I can make clearance for my front sump oil pan. A nice clean shot from underneath looking up at an angle would be nice too. I'm wondering if I'll have to move the motor rearward or not to clear.

It's just dawning on me that with my approach to this build, I may be able to get away with putting things wherever the hell I want. I may be able to simply move the motor and tub to the rear to get away from the axle.

I'm not sure a front-sump pan is a good idea on a 4x4 where you might be climbing up something steep, I'd stay with a rear-sump myself.

I found this pic of the crossmember though, not sure if that helps (doesn't show much of the frame rails). I haven't needed to pull an engine yet on mine so I don't have a good pic of my own.

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/rickcdewitt/KIF_0040.jpg

I'm not sure a front-sump pan is a good idea on a 4x4 where you might be climbing up something steep, I'd stay with a rear-sump myself.

I found this pic of the crossmember though, not sure if that helps (doesn't show much of the frame rails). I haven't needed to pull an engine yet on mine so I don't have a good pic of my own.

Thanks, that pic shows me pretty much what I needed to see.
If I could get away from that front sump, I would. 4x4labs was supposed to be working on a dry sump system, haven't heard any updates on that.

Biggest problem I had with my D44TTB was alignment. I would hit something and knock it out severely almost every wheeling trip. I would have to do a trail alignment with tent poles and a tape measure just to be able to drive it the 1.5 hrs home.

You say that like it's a common thing to replace a pan gasket. Maybe if you used a quality gasket you wouldn't have to worry about that.

I am selling my '96 F150 4x4 this weekend because I am tired of dealing with the weird ass problems that truck has. One of the worst, IMO, is that not the pan gasket is bad, but the pan's rusted through and leaks oil all over my driveway. I'd rather sell this Ford to buy another older Chevy that is easier to work on. I don't think you should have to pull an engine to replace an oil pan. I think that is retarded as fuck.

FWIW, the leaf spring hangers on my 39 year old GMC haven't yet rusted through, and all of the Ford's have, and its only 12 years old. The Ford's tailgate hinges rusted off, also. Are you kidding me?

One thing I will give the Ford: the 4.9L is a great motor...but I have begun to think of it in terms of the Cummins put into the Dodges...awesome motor, poor chassis.

I am selling my '96 F150 4x4 this weekend because I am tired of dealing with the weird ass problems that truck has. One of the worst, IMO, is that not the pan gasket is bad, but the pan's rusted through and leaks oil all over my driveway. I'd rather sell this Ford to buy another older Chevy that is easier to work on. I don't think you should have to pull an engine to replace an oil pan. I think that is retarded as fuck.

FWIW, the leaf spring hangers on my 39 year old GMC haven't yet rusted through, and all of the Ford's have, and its only 12 years old. The Ford's tailgate hinges rusted off, also. Are you kidding me?

One thing I will give the Ford: the 4.9L is a great motor...but I have begun to think of it in terms of the Cummins put into the Dodges...awesome motor, poor chassis.
If youj are having that many rust issues, you should try taking care of shit once in awhile.

I am selling my '96 F150 4x4 this weekend because I am tired of dealing with the weird ass problems that truck has. One of the worst, IMO, is that not the pan gasket is bad, but the pan's rusted through and leaks oil all over my driveway. I'd rather sell this Ford to buy another older Chevy that is easier to work on. I don't think you should have to pull an engine to replace an oil pan. I think that is retarded as fuck.

FWIW, the leaf spring hangers on my 39 year old GMC haven't yet rusted through, and all of the Ford's have, and its only 12 years old. The Ford's tailgate hinges rusted off, also. Are you kidding me?

One thing I will give the Ford: the 4.9L is a great motor...but I have begun to think of it in terms of the Cummins put into the Dodges...awesome motor, poor chassis.

Uhmm... you really don't have to pull the motor to replace the pan gasket. Just pull the motor mounts loose, and jack the motor up a few inches via the crank pulley.

Also the rusting you mention is pretty common on the Fords, but you think Chev's don't rust? Ever look at the rocker panels on a Chev from they 70's through the 90's? The fact that your Ford is rusty and your Chevy is not could be do to any number of factors, not just the differences in brand names.

The TTB as well as the rest of the truck is great for what it was designed for. Comparing a 39 year old Chevy to a 90's Ford and calling the Chev better, is fucking retarded. Compare apples to apples. Lets talk about Chevy's great IFS system in their trucks from the 90's. :shaking:

mR

I'd rather sell this Ford to buy another older Chevy that is easier to work on.

Are Chevy nuts and bolts any different to what Ford uses?:homer:

You're tossing some of the great stuff that Ford made.....and keeping some of the so-so stuff. Fords have good looking sheet metal, good motors, good trannies, great rearends.

There's already a debate running about the TTB front end.

What about the frame? I'd say the same thing about a Chev frame. Why build your rig around a c-channel frame? Skip having to plate a possibly rusty stock c-channel frame and go for a boxed frame.

I'd advise using a Jeep, Toyota, or Nissan frame, or build your own out of box tubing.

For what you're building, a Waggy D44 front would be nice with a Ford 9" EB or Scout rear....or an EB D44 front if you need driver's drop. If you'll only ever be on 33's or 35's, some D44's would be great.

I am still running the stock ttb44 in my 95 bronco and I haven't really found a reason to do a sas other than flex. I have pulled out solid axle44 truck in the mud and they have suffered broken axle shafts where mine were fine. I am a little concerned with the stub shaft going as it is the "weak" spot in the ttb44. The fix for this is the d50 ttb stub shaft is pretty much interchangeable. I am planning a SAS but am waiting for a d60 to come along just for the strength considering the weight of my truck and the power I will have one day. I am running 35" MTR and a six" lift.
When I installed the lift I also installed a drop pittman arm and (in order to get my steering back to allignable status) I had to flip the tie rods on the knuckle(search knuckle under or tie rod flip) and that plus the drop arm I had almost stock steering geometry. My alignment before the flip w/ the drop arm was laying rubber down the alignment was so bad, but after the TRF the alignment was just barely out(almost acceptable) which is remarkable with a 6" lift installation which includes taking the entire front end out from under the truck.


my $.02

I am still running the stock ttb44 in my 95 bronco and I haven't really found a reason to do a sas other than flex. I have pulled out solid axle44 truck in the mud and they have suffered broken axle shafts where mine were fine. I am a little concerned with the stub shaft going as it is the "weak" spot in the ttb44. The fix for this is the d50 ttb stub shaft is pretty much interchangeable. I am planning a SAS but am waiting for a d60 to come along just for the strength considering the weight of my truck and the power I will have one day. I am running 35" MTR and a six" lift.
When I installed the lift I also installed a drop pittman arm and (in order to get my steering back to allignable status) I had to flip the tie rods on the knuckle(search knuckle under or tie rod flip) and that plus the drop arm I had almost stock steering geometry. My alignment before the flip w/ the drop arm was laying rubber down the alignment was so bad, but after the TRF the alignment was just barely out(almost acceptable) which is remarkable with a 6" lift installation which includes taking the entire front end out from under the truck.


my $.02

Are you just down right incapable of completing a paragraph?

I know how it is. I went from this:
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1600/2057243/3988319/49295096.jpg
To this
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1600/2057243/3988319/132772496.jpg
To this
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1600/2057243/3988319/238210497.jpg
To this
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1600/2057243/3988319/168320871.jpg
To this :flipoff2:
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1600/2057243/3988319/344780808.jpg

I started right from the get-go with this one
http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v374/128/108/705131587/n705131587_1076399_8141.jpg

Are you just down right incapable of completing a paragraph?



Well, I know I spaced out once. Where I listed my lift and tire size and then started the description of my steering. Oh well, I am not claiming to be literate or to have the capability of proper sentence/paragraph structure.:shaking::flipoff2:

I have a chance to buy a 94 powerstroke 4x4 truck with the ttb for $500. Will any of the front end parts interchange with a dana 60? I was told that the spindle and rotor might interchange. I might buy it for the rotors and spindles and then sell the rest.