The promoter of my Montgomery City, MO mud race has added a lot of other elements (show n shine, monsters, etc) to the event over the past couple of years. Due to the growth, it's probably going to be done over 2 days next year. One possibility is a rock-crawling course & competition. This would obviously be a man-made course with boulders hauled in. There's room on the grounds to do this. Even though I won't have anything specifically to do with the rock-crawl, I'd prefer that it not be a clusterphuck (since my name is also on the event).

So, can anyone offer suggestions on how not to screw it up? Specifically, I think the best option would be to find a traveling sanctioning body that could orchestrate the competition. Any ideas on that? If not, any ideas PERIOD?


TEX

Better start one now. It's going to be the next big arena sport. I think some clever people are going to be 'renting' big rocks locally and stacking them figure '8' in stadiums across the country. Friday night you'll see the local hero's going for donated prizes from the local shops for advertising and Saturday night the shoot-off with the big dog's, prize money from the big dog sponsors. But then I've been wrong lots before. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

My suggestion on some steps to follow would be to have someone who is big into rockcrawling be in charge of setting up the course.

1. Dont make it difficult to the point where nobody can make it through but its gotta be difficult so not everyone can make it.
2. If you decide on having it point based (like ARCA) you need to come up with rules on what you get points for (knocking gates, backing up, rollovers, winching, etc...)
3. If you decide against point based the only other real option is time elapsed. This could make it intresting but could lead to lots of breakage.
4. You probably need some sort of vehicle criteria for the participants before entering (minimum tire size, lockers F/R, etc...) since you dont want someone to go get a rental car to try your course <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">
5. You need some sort of extraction device for when people get stuck or break (think crane of some sort)

I could probably think of more but you get the point. The ARCA system works well but you dont want your event to be exactly the same. Just talk to lots of people to see what they would want to see in a competetion or talk to would-be-drivers and see what they would like have the course and rules be like. If you make the spectators and competetors happy, then its all good.

Yeah, it could fill the slot between Monster Jam and WWF Raw. <IMG SRC="smilies/bounce2.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/bounce.gif" border="0">

Thanks so far. We do have one local guy who took 1st at some Ramsey sponsored event who wants to be involved, so it's not completely starting from scratch. But, as with mud racing, just 'cause you've been IN a rock crawling competition & even won, it doesn't mean you know jack about putting one on <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0"> So, I'm trying to get as much helpful advice to the promoter as possible.

Thanks,
TEX

if you end up with alot of entrants it could be a long couple days.... i would have 2 coarse's for the qualifying, then one in which neither have run on for the finals

group a run course 1 in the am, and then flip... next day have the top dozen or so compete in the finals....

just a thought..

it would be really cool to see a points series here on the east coast...

i completly disagree with baby wrangle on his don't make it to hard statment. the man made course events i have seen are are so lame because they try and make it some "evey rig can do it " type event. it makes our sport look <IMG SRC="smilies/rainbow.gif" border="0">

make it so hard that only the best rigs can even complete the course and us the ARCA scoring system. it works so why try and reinvent the wheel?

Originally posted by camo:
<STRONG>i completly disagree with baby wrangle on his don't make it to hard statment. the man made course events i have seen are are so lame because they try and make it some "evey rig can do it " type event. it makes our sport look <IMG SRC="smilies/rainbow.gif" border="0">

make it so hard that only the best rigs can even complete the course and us the ARCA scoring system. it works so why try and reinvent the wheel?</STRONG>

couldnt agree more. how long do you think spectators will watch shit without roll overs and carnage... not too damn long... i say put only a limit of tire size like arca.... no bigger than 40inches... as far as how small, hey it would be fun to watch an idiot not make it through the first gate cause he thinks his 32's are enough...


i wouldnt like just one run then total it up, i think 2 runs and a final would be the way to go

Camo's right on. The crowd is paying to see carnage. Have a drawing for the locals to keep it managable. Time the event to keep scoring easy.

Originally posted by camo:
<STRONG>i completly disagree with baby wrangle on his don't make it to hard statment. the man made course events i have seen are are so lame because they try and make it some "evey rig can do it " type event. it makes our sport look <IMG SRC="smilies/rainbow.gif" border="0">

make it so hard that only the best rigs can even complete the course and us the ARCA scoring system. it works so why try and reinvent the wheel?</STRONG>

I agree use the biggest frickin rocks you can find! And have time limits.
<IMG SRC="smilies/devil.gif" border="0">

[ 09-04-2001: Message edited by: trailhawg ]

Good thoughts, though I really wouldn't expect a lot of competitors for an event here in MO - especially if we make it ARCA tough. That is unless it's an actual ARCA event (and again, bringing someone like that in is most definitely a possibility if anyone knows of a group that would be interested).

I do think that perhaps day 1 could be "qualifying" while day 2 could be the "finals". I like that idea a lot.

As far as the spectators go, well this is probably going to be a sideshow type event at best. The main draw will be the mud, monsters, & tough-truckers (that too is probably getting added) with the Show N Shine & Rock-Crawl being "added features". There will be bleachers at the rock-crawl, but nothing approaching what we have at the main grandstand.

TEX

Originally posted by TEX:
<STRONG>Good thoughts, though I really wouldn't expect a lot of competitors for an event here in MO - especially if we make it ARCA tough. That is unless it's an actual ARCA event (and again, bringing someone like that in is most definitely a possibility if anyone knows of a group that would be interested).

I do think that perhaps day 1 could be "qualifying" while day 2 could be the "finals". I like that idea a lot.

As far as the spectators go, well this is probably going to be a sideshow type event at best. The main draw will be the mud, monsters, & tough-truckers (that too is probably getting added) with the Show N Shine & Rock-Crawl being "added features". There will be bleachers at the rock-crawl, but nothing approaching what we have at the main grandstand.

TEX</STRONG>well i wouldnt be too surprized if you got a much bigger crowd than you expect watching the rocks...

the small bleachers at canfield were packed, with many people standin around also

Originally posted by badassjeepguy:
<STRONG>well i wouldnt be too surprized if you got a much bigger crowd than you expect watching the rocks...

the small bleachers at canfield were packed, with many people standin around also</STRONG>

That would be a nice problem to have <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0"> And there are plenty of sets of bleachers that can be positioned around a rock course, but they're only a few rows high. The main grandstands seat between 5 & 6,000.

TEX

ARCA comps average 6-8,000 spectators. <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">

[ 09-04-2001: Message edited by: Lance ]

I have been to alot of events and trust me, the rock crawl will rock!

After everyone sees it once, it will be the most popular event!

One thing though, in a stadium setting severe breakage where it takes a while to move the vehicle will leave the spectators with noting to watch.

so take advantage of NOT being out in the desert and after a team times out, use that extraction method as said above to get them outa the way so the next team can get it!

Originally posted by badassjeepguy:
<STRONG> hey it would be fun to watch an idiot not make it through the first gate cause he thinks his 32's are enough...
</STRONG>


That would be me....Baaaaahahahahahaha <IMG SRC="smilies/eek.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by Lance:
<STRONG>ARCA comps average 6-8,000 spectators. <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">

</STRONG>

Yeah, but ARCA is a LOT different (not to mention a lot better ADVERTISED) than what we'd be doing.

TEX

Originally posted by Moab Austin:
<STRONG>I have been to alot of events and trust me, the rock crawl will rock!

After everyone sees it once, it will be the most popular event!</STRONG>

Well, you've gotta remember this is taking place here in the Midwest. I went down to Mudstock & though it wasn't a particularly well organized event, I think it was a pretty good indicator of the popularity of various events for our area. Monster trucks brought the most spectators, followed by tough trucking. Mud Bogging came in 3rd, then mud dragging, then the hill climb. And even though there were some nice machines involved, I never saw more than 10 or 12 people watching the rock crawl. And believe me, the guys who PARTICIPATED in the rock crawl were WAY more serious than the mud guys (most serious mud racers won't bring their racers to an event like that), but the one spot that held a crowd for the entire day was the mud pit. Only the tough trucks & monsters could severely divert one's attention & those events don't last very long. People like to watch the kind of wheeling that they like to DO. And around here, that's mainly mud.<STRONG>

One thing though, in a stadium setting severe breakage where it takes a while to move the vehicle will leave the spectators with noting to watch.

so take advantage of NOT being out in the desert and after a team times out, use that extraction method as said above to get them outa the way so the next team can get it!</STRONG>

VERY good point. Nothing worse than dead time.

TEX

K.I.S.S.

Screw crawling - carnage and SPEED sells.

Straight course, xx' wide, xxx' long, boudaries on both sides - just like a drag strip.

You have a start line, you have a finish line.

Fastest to the other end, or furthest distance before timing out or vehicle failure wins.

You gotta keep the rules simple like this for several reasons. If you get too technical - the crowd is lost and they won;t have a clue who won or how.

Keeping the rules simple also lets locals run, and with only 10 or so rules to follow there is not a lot to misunderstand.

Mud racing works on the same principles - simple (relatively) rules, go fast, straight course - best time wins.

People will cry themselves back to their cars if you have people crawling over rocks for 2 days straight.

Think about it... they came to see what - MUD DRAGS??? You already know what they like in their sport (speed, power, fast times, etc.) so you already have the audience pegged for their "likes" - don;t screw with it!

I could go on for days, but that be what i think <IMG SRC="smilies/tongue.gif" border="0">

Oh, and some of you need to step out of youe bubble abut rock crawling. Most people see it and once they are over the innitial "wow factor" of "how'd they do that" they move one... lost interest.. yawn.. boooooring <IMG SRC="smilies/frown.gif" border="0">

We are talking midwest and east coast 4 wheelers. Rock crawling is the MINORITY, and most in all actuallity find it boring and lacking any type of fun factor. Sure, most of us here like it, but we are far from the norm in Tex's target audience.

I tell you "rock racing" is the key. pedal down, simple straight course where you can take any route you want between the boundaries as long as you are the first to the other end. Carnage will happen - and the crowd likes it. You will have airtime - and the crowd likes it. You will have bangs, smacks, and crunches - and the crowd likes it.

Yup, DRM hit on what I mean about our locals. The crowd won't understand the technical aspects of the crawl. You guys ever see the stuff they do in Iceland? Those wicked straight up hill climbs? Well, I didn't realize it, but the same vehicles actually participate in about 6 or 7 different "events" during the course of the day. I have a videotape of the whole thing from a '99 event. The crowd only gets interested when the RPM's go up & stuff flies.

'Course a lot of you guys picked up on this with the suggestion of an ARCA level course. But, unless we can offer up an ARCA level PURSE, that won't do much for us getting in enough competitors to make it interesting. And the expense of setting up an ARCA level course & then funding the purse....could be a bit much for an event taking place in a town of ~2,200 residents <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">

Now, in this case 2 days of people crawling over rocks won't be such a bad thing because one admission price gets you into the whole show and there will be a lot of other stuff going on.

BTW, the speed & carnage DRM mentioned is how Tough Truck racing grew out of "obstacle course" events - obstacle course events being the predecessor to Rock Crawling <IMG SRC="smilies/wink.gif" border="0">

TEX

If you were going to have two courses, Have them side by side and timed. Your next time through you'd switch sides. It would be timed and points with the points adding time. It wouldn't be a true race each time through, but it would give that allusion. Then for the run off you could run the courses backwards. And it wouldn't just have to be rocks. What about log piles, or junk cars, mud pit in the middle, or.......

Originally posted by TEX:
<STRONG>Yup, DRM hit on what I mean about our locals. <IMG SRC="smilies/wink.gif" border="0">

TEX</STRONG>Oh God...don't encourage him!

Originally posted by camo:
<STRONG>i completly disagree with baby wrangle on his don't make it to hard statment. the man made course events i have seen are are so lame because they try and make it some "evey rig can do it " type event. it makes our sport look <IMG SRC="smilies/rainbow.gif" border="0">

make it so hard that only the best rigs can even complete the course and us the ARCA scoring system. it works so why try and reinvent the wheel?</STRONG>

I was not trying to imply that it should be made so easy that every rig can do it. My point was that if not one rig can make it to the end of the course, then people will lose intrest. The spectators need to have a vehicle to cheer for and why would you cheer for a vehicle that can't cut it? You have to have a few people make it through to give the competetors the thought that there is a chance they will make it. You can make a parallel to monster truck racing here too... how intrested would you be if nobody could complete the course? I think there is such a thing as too much breakage. After reading what other people posted, I agree that a timed even would be best since it provides the most carnage, and thats what keeps people coming back.

Tex,

If you come up with something badass....I know several people, myself included, from my club ( www.kc4wda.com (http://www.kc4wda.com) ) who would participate. There are a lot of rockcrawlers here in the midwest who travel to Disney, OK to play on the rocks. If you build it...they will come!!!!

The spectator attraction, that is usually missing in arena events, is exposure (to obvious danger). Mud or Sand drags have speed, and Tough Truck has speed and air time, things a spectator can relate to that are difficult to match with rock crawling.

The crowd is looking for obvious danger, not breakage potential or getting stuck. A level course, even an impassable one, does not offer the immediate tingle in the groin that one gets by seeing a vehicle hanging off a thirty (or three hundred) foot ledge. The situation does not have to be extremely dangerous, but it must look critical (and bite on occasion).

The closed course concept is achieveable, with pucker factor, if you can build elevation changes in the route that scare the crowd. The same elevation & exposure concept that separates Supercross from Speedway (or better parallel Observed Trails and Speedway).

Twentyfive years ago they said Supercross would fail (to expensive) and quickly lose spectator interest. The minimal difficulty of clearing a triple jump never seems to reduce the exposure assumed by the crowd. The lack of relative speed, compared to a speedway event, never seems to reduce the enjoyment.

Two courses are a minimum to keep crowd attention. They do not need to be equal, just offer an alternative attraction. The difficult sections with exposure will keep the crowd happy, and winch time will not (review the critics of the first year of ARCA). Building hill sections, and keeping the rocks intact, will be difficult and expensive (possibly use cars as obsticles). The logistics of creating a course may be the ultimate limitation.

The closed course rockcrawl concept has possibilities, and is due, so I would not rule it out as a probability in the future. If more spectators were exposed to the enjoyment and suspense of crawling it would possibly help participation in the activist side of keeping recreation lands open in the future.

I participated at the Buckeye 4 wheel Jamboree both in 2000 amd 2001. They had monster trucks, sand drags, tough trucks, show and shine, and a rock crawl. The rules were the same as the ARCA. The first year Sports in the Rough ran the event. This year JB offroad ran it.

The course was about 100 yards long it started out real easy and got harder. Each day there was a qualifying round. The top ten people were in the final.

The gates were setup in such a way that you were crossing over the course in a z type pattern.

Now the spectators sat in the 90 dergree sun all day. Thay sat for the 30 minutes it took to remove stuck/broken jeeps off the rocks. It did not seem that they were there for carnage. They oohed when someone broke and clapped when someone did a good run.

I did not think rock crawling was a spectator sport but my mind has changed.

You can see the pictures for the 2000 event at kevin's jeep page (http://jeep.2y.net) and the 2001 event at wrev.org/rock2001 (http://wrev.org/rock2001/)

Kevin Kramer
92 YJ with a few mods
My RigRater (http://www.rigrater.com) Score: 836RRv1.0 with a BOA of 26.35
mailto:kevin@wrev.org http://jeep.2y.net
Originally posted by FOGXJ:
<STRONG>The spectator attraction, that is usually missing in arena events, is exposure (to obvious danger). Mud or Sand drags have speed, and Tough Truck has speed and air time, things a spectator can relate to that are difficult to match with rock crawling.

The crowd is looking for obvious danger, not breakage potential or getting stuck. A level course, even an impassable one, does not offer the immediate tingle in the groin that one gets by seeing a vehicle hanging off a thirty (or three hundred) foot ledge. The situation does not have to be extremely dangerous, but it must look critical (and bite on occasion).

The closed course concept is achieveable, with pucker factor, if you can build elevation changes in the route that scare the crowd. The same elevation & exposure concept that separates Supercross from Speedway (or better parallel Observed Trails and Speedway).

Twentyfive years ago they said Supercross would fail (to expensive) and quickly lose spectator interest. The minimal difficulty of clearing a triple jump never seems to reduce the exposure assumed by the crowd. The lack of relative speed, compared to a speedway event, never seems to reduce the enjoyment.

Two courses are a minimum to keep crowd attention. They do not need to be equal, just offer an alternative attraction. The difficult sections with exposure will keep the crowd happy, and winch time will not (review the critics of the first year of ARCA). Building hill sections, and keeping the rocks intact, will be difficult and expensive (possibly use cars as obsticles). The logistics of creating a course may be the ultimate limitation.

The closed course rockcrawl concept has possibilities, and is due, so I would not rule it out as a probability in the future. If more spectators were exposed to the enjoyment and suspense of crawling it would possibly help participation in the activist side of keeping recreation lands open in the future.</STRONG>

Kevin's jeep page (http://jeep.2y.net)

[ 09-04-2001: Message edited by: Painter ]

Me personally, I would go to the Off Road show just to see the Rock Crawling. How about two courses and if some one breaks down on one start the other vehicle on the second course. That way there is no lag between runs. If both break and are being extracted, then that happens!
I also agree with camo, make it as tough as possible!! You want to run it then be ready for the worst.

Well I hate to agree with DRM twice in the same month but I don't think much of the ARCA rules for a general public event. Having a start line and finish with a huge pile of rocks in between with sevral different lines possable. Just like a pull off the truck to get the furthest wins, Make it hard and if two of more truck make it all the way then you add a couple of rocks and have a crawl off between the truck that made.

Gota have a big crain to remove the broken rigs quickly.

lol - does it hurt Chris? <IMG SRC="smilies/wink.gif" border="0">

A few other thoughts - winching is <IMG SRC="smilies/puke.gif" border="0"> Nobody wants to pay to see something tow truck drivers do every day. I don't care how hard the course is, no winching allowed. if you get stuck - you either time out, or throw the flag and that is the distance you made it.

I dunno about dual courses at the same time - may be tough to watch... not sure baout that one...

Thanks again gang. FOGXJ, you make some excellent points, especially about the elevation changes & the "appearance" of imminent danger. I think those are a couple of elements that could have helped spectator appeal at the rock course at Mudstock. First of all, the course they had wasn't THAT tough. But, it looked even easier than it was & that's not good from a spectator point of view. You have to have sections that make spectators say, "you'd have to be nuts to try that", and they have people try 'em. Could be tough to create any significant elevation change that would stay in place all day. Lots to consider & y'all have given me a few ideas. Appreciate it!

TEX

Originally posted by DeeAreEmm:
<STRONG>K.I.S.S.

....snip.....I could go on for days, but that be what i think <IMG SRC="smilies/tongue.gif" border="0"></STRONG>


And I am sure you will <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by Eric Smith:
<STRONG>Tex,

If you come up with something badass....I know several people, myself included, from my club ( www.kc4wda.com (http://www.kc4wda.com) ) who would participate. There are a lot of rockcrawlers here in the midwest who travel to Disney, OK to play on the rocks. If you build it...they will come!!!!</STRONG>

Yeah, the idea is to bring in a crowd that we normally wouldn't get. Also, because the event has gotten too big for a single day, we need ways to get the spectators to return for a second day (meaning, we can't have twice the expense w/o twice the total # of spectators).

TEX

Originally posted by TEX:
<STRONG>Thanks again gang. FOGXJ, you make some excellent points, especially about the elevation changes & the "appearance" of imminent danger. I think those are a couple of elements that could have helped spectator appeal at the rock course at Mudstock. First of all, the course they had wasn't THAT tough. But, it looked even easier than it was & that's not good from a spectator point of view. You have to have sections that make spectators say, "you'd have to be nuts to try that", and they have people try 'em. Could be tough to create any significant elevation change that would stay in place all day. Lots to consider & y'all have given me a few ideas. Appreciate it!

TEX</STRONG>

I just say put a big pile of compressed dirt 3/4 of the way down the course and start piling rocks with that. V rocks are a good obstical to add the illusiong of real challange, they are tough but rely on driver instead of vehicle so it can be a surmontable challange. Also I think the choose your own line is more sectator freindly, people want veriety. Just make sure the boundry is withen the edge of the rocks, compitions have been done before where people just blasted down the sideline.

It would seem from the comments that you might want to look at the difference between supercross racing and trials riding.While being ALOT slower trials shows the skill of the riders in varying and what appears to be very dangerous terrain.I'm not sure how they score trials events but it may be what your looking for.

Originally posted by R O:
<STRONG>It would seem from the comments that you might want to look at the difference between supercross racing and trials riding.While being ALOT slower trials shows the skill of the riders in varying and what appears to be very dangerous terrain.I'm not sure how they score trials events but it may be what your looking for.</STRONG>

That's a good point. Trials riding is anything but boring, despite the lack of speed & airtime. Perhaps a course with a couple of technical sections thrown in to keep the overall speed down, & some short vertical obstacles thrown in for visual appeal.

I do agree a dirt mound or two might have to be built in to stabilize the course. I also think that we're looking at 2 "classes" of vehicles, but that perhaps they can run together (just scored separately) to keep folks interested. That's kind of how we do the mud race. We don't run any street classes back to back. There's always a faster group in between.


TEX

I think those ideas of a rock-drag race would be pretty cool. Slap a bunch of rocks in a line 40yds long and wide enough for two trucks. Each truck runs both sides. The fastest avg time wins the heat. Make difference in height between the rocks big enough to force some serious wheelstands and definite potential for rollover.

You'd need some serious prize money to find drivers willing to bash the crap out of their rigs like this though.

Hose off the rocks before each heat. That would be cool too.

maybe we can call it Supercrawl III :flipoff2:

maybe we can call it Supercrawl III :flipoff2:
You revived a 3 year old thread for that? :flipoff2:

Slow paced looses the audience.
You've got to keep the momentum going. They come to see hp,carnage ,air etc. The crowd also gets some of the drivers going too.........

That kids on the rocks deal sounded cool
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=186643&highlight=kids+rocks

Well, you've gotta remember this is taking place here in the Midwest. I went down to Mudstock & though it wasn't a particularly well organized event, I think it was a pretty good indicator of the popularity of various events for our area. Monster trucks brought the most spectators, followed by tough trucking. Mud Bogging came in 3rd, then mud dragging, then the hill climb. And even though there were some nice machines involved, I never saw more than 10 or 12 people watching the rock crawl. And believe me, the guys who PARTICIPATED in the rock crawl were WAY more serious than the mud guys (most serious mud racers won't bring their racers to an event like that), but the one spot that held a crowd for the entire day was the mud pit. Only the tough trucks & monsters could severely divert one's attention & those events don't last very long. People like to watch the kind of wheeling that they like to DO. And around here, that's mainly mud.<STRONG>

VERY good point. Nothing worse than dead time.

TEX

What ever you do.. don't invite Bob Hazel. That will cause a clusterphuck.

You've got to keep the momentum going. They come to see hp,carnage ,air etc.

Ok, let's call it Supercrawl 3 :flipoff2: haha

Tex...What ever happened with this? If you decide to try it, i'm sure you could get help from MWJT/MRJT/SIJA.

Tex...What ever happened with this? If you decide to try it, i'm sure you could get help from MWJT/MRJT/SIJA.

That promoter is out of business :(

I bet you could get some of the MWJT vendors to help out.

I bet you could get some of the MWJT vendors to help out.

Right now, I'm just struggling to get the mud portion restarted. I'm honestly not that interested in being a "promoter" myself. Tried it for a year & (as suspected) it wasn't my strong suit. So me getting involved in rocks isn't likely to happen.

TEX

I agree with Rob(badassjeepguy).... You'll be supirzed how many people gaterh aroudn for this type of an event once it catches on. The first year at Canfield the filled about 80 of the bleachers. The second year they were pack. This past year, which I believe was year 3 since they skipped having it last year, The bleachers filled(entire length of the rock course) and there were a ton of people standing! rock crawling deinfately pulls in a competeing crowd with the monster trucks and such at these small town events!

Oh an to add a little on my previous post. Sports in the Rough handled the first year or two that Canfield had the rock crawl. Then they had I think guys from Tenessee Off Road handling it. This past year I am not sure where the guys were from, but it wasn't as good as the years before. I say have rules similar to ARCA, Neuroc, uroc, etc....

And as far as running courses. Previous years they would run the qualifying on saturday and run the course straight down the middle. Then on Sunday they would re arrange the gates and have a mixture of you criss-crossing over the rocks and some parts straight down the center. Kept it pretty interesting. And one half of the course would be a little on the easy side and the the last half would be alot harder.

I agree with Rob(badassjeepguy).... You'll be supirzed how many people gaterh aroudn for this type of an event once it catches on.

See, I disagree. From the sounds of things, crowds are actually DOWN at the bigger events. Once the "gee-whiz" factor wears off, is the sport really interesting enough for the "casual" fan? 3 years later, I remain unconvinced.

Again, sort of a moot point from my perspective since I won't be persuing it REGARDLESS. Just my observation.

TEX

That promoter is out of business :(

Maybe he should have built a rock course

See, I disagree. From the sounds of things, crowds are actually DOWN at the bigger events. Once the "gee-whiz" factor wears off, is the sport really interesting enough for the "casual" fan? 3 years later, I remain unconvinced.

Again, sort of a moot point from my perspective since I won't be persuing it REGARDLESS. Just my observation.

TEX


The Canfield, OH event crowd has gotten bigger every year! The summer of 2003 they chose not to run a rock event and attendance nose dive'd..... So they brought it back this summer.
Rock events around here keep getting more popular. Summit Racing has started having them every summer as well as 4 Wheel Drive Hardware.
But I think alot of it has to do with the course and drivers ability in attandance. I can see your point. A local place just down the road has/had a 4x4 Night every Thursday. They had a rock crawl put in. The garden is a bit small and for a rig that is set up pretty nicely, it's not much of a challange.. SO that makes it a bit boring for the crowd.

Maybe he should have built a rock course

He needed to spend a lot LESS $$$ on his events. He actually turned a profit on the mud-only stuff. It was when he added features that he started to get in trouble. Sometimes it's best to stick to one thing that you know how to do & do it well.


TEX

The Canfield, OH event crowd has gotten bigger every year!

But, it's still a "small" event in the overall realm of things. It's not even the biggest thing going on at THAT event, not even close. The guys out West have been at this longer & now have multiple events to attend. And attendance/event has started to slip. You guys have ONE chance all year to watch rock-crawling.

TEX

But, it's still a "small" event in the overall realm of things. It's not even the biggest thing going on at THAT event, not even close. The guys out West have been at this longer & now have multiple events to attend. And attendance/event has started to slip. You guys have ONE chance all year to watch rock-crawling.

TEX

Actually we have at least 3 small events like that. Canfield, Summit Racing and 4wd Hardware. And if I wanted to drive, I am about 4 hours from Paragon. Not to mention some of the smaller events that the local clubs put on. From what I've heard though, the rock crawling is taking away a good bit of the crowds that usually watch monster trucks and tough trucks. Heard there were quite a few complaints from the events people and thats one reason they didn't have the rocks last year.

But I understand what you are saying.