Got a question for the professionals here. :D My still mostly stock Sidekick is running 35in thronbirds and naturally having power troubles.
http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/5/web/3173000-3173999/3173229_51_full.jpg?551301-317
Before I start adding more power to the motor, I want to adjust my gearing. Currently it's a manual with the 5.12 diffs. I also have a 93 with an automatic and 4.62 diffs. Since it is hard to find the 5.62 or 5.83, my question is; would swapping the 5.12s to the automatic make that much of a difference or you think I would still need to go lower?
I want to replace the diffs before I go to the T-case so there is less chance of breakage/power loss. Or does anyone know who currently has the 5.83s? I don't want to go smaller tires, bigger motor, or SAS so... Just can't use my 5th gear or take the hills so I need some advice. Thanks.:D

First off... Freakin' sweet rig!

Secondly... haha... I have an auto on 31's and 5.12's. It came stock with 4.62's. I don't have much power, but I do have an 8v.

A lower t-case won't help your high range. Trail Tough (www.trailtough.com) is coming out with an underdrive for people just like you! What it does is seperate your transmission from your t-case with a plate about 3" long. It's like a planetary gear, I've heard, and it is supposed to lower high and low range to 1.5:1 high instead of 1:1 high. Great for people running 35's. Give them a call and ask when they are gonna be done and for how much. I am probably going down there today, so I will ask.



ALSO! Welcome to the Forum! It's not the best for sidekick's, though. My main site is Zukikrawlers.com, but I go to zuwharrie.com for information on Sidekick IFS crap.

And 5.12's are going to be a lot stronger than 5.62's and 5.83's. If you ever have a problem with your rear 5.12, try to find a 10 bolt rear 5.12 to replace it. My 89 had 10 bolt 4.62's, but my dad's 93 had 12 bolt 5.12's.

when you say 10 bolt and 12 bolt, do you mean chevy truck axles?

get you some older cj d44's and gear the snot out of them! ya i know you dont want to sas it but you will fair better with them, and the gears. that or the under drive that dude was talking about.

when you say 10 bolt and 12 bolt, do you mean chevy truck axles?

Nope. Sidekick axles.

10 bolt Sidekick diffs are a lot stronger than 12 bolt. Ask Brent.

Sweet rig man. Had any issues with the front axles yet? I had 33's on my 98 4 door and cringed everytime I took her out....LOL

So far haven't had any trouble with the axles. Planning on getting the drop brackets for the diff to help. Not a lot of serious crawling up here. Mostly trails and mud which is what I'm building it for. Don't need no stinking flex for that. (sorry, brother has a jeep :flipoff2: and always wants to compare flex) I had a Hummer H1 and am planning on designing the Sidekick the same way. So BassMan, do you run pretty much the same speed now with the 5.12s as you did with stock tires? I will change out the Tcase gears soon, but it's better to change the diffs first otherwise everything ahead of that has to work much harder, so I firuged the auto and 5.12s should be the equivilant to manual with 5.62s. Going from 4.62 to 5.12 is a .5 decrease, and 5.12 to 5.62 is the same .5 reduction. Plus, I'd rather have the auto so it makes sense to me. I'll check zukikrawlers too, see if there is any info.

I am .5 mph faster on my speedo than my GPS with the 31's, but they are still a bigger tire, and is hard to turn. Hills kill me sometimes.

First off... Freakin' sweet rig!


i agree with Bass Man that thing is sweet i have a 2 door after seeing yours i think i am wanting a 4 door now can you give us all a little more info on it though

i agree with Bass Man that thing is sweet i have a 2 door after seeing yours i think i am wanting a 4 door now can you give us all a little more info on it though

Yeah!! I want to know how you got just as much fender clearence on the rear as I do with my 31's and 2" lift!

Thanks for the compliments. People really like the look of it. I think it's the tires. Have 2.5in wheel spacers on my Samurai with 31s and get the same reactions. This one is a '93 with the 16v, 6in Masterkit lift (very inexpensive out of canada) 3in spacers, 3in body with bumper relocaters. And 35x14.50 thornbirds and wheels for $250 bucks. Had to cut about a half inch out of the rear fenders right behind the doors, and the front fenders 2 or 3 in, and hammered the floor back about an inch or so. Here's the pics I have so far with most of my details. If you have anything else you want to see or know just let me know.
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3173229

I would go for a kicker 3 (sidekick to sammy t-case), then get lower t-case gears for the sammy case, this will give you the high rage reduction your looking for, plus a dual t-case set up

we went kicker 2 (sidekick to toyota case) and it sucks on the street, we have all the gears in the world in low range, but in high, its nothing more than a stock sidekick on 36's

kick ass rig btw, almost makes me want to do that to my xl-7 just as a pavement pounder

im only going to run 32's tho :D

Thanks for the compliments. People really like the look of it. I think it's the tires. Have 2.5in wheel spacers on my Samurai with 31s and get the same reactions. This one is a '93 with the 16v, 6in Masterkit lift (very inexpensive out of canada) 3in spacers, 3in body with bumper relocaters. And 35x14.50 thornbirds and wheels for $250 bucks. Had to cut about a half inch out of the rear fenders right behind the doors, and the front fenders 2 or 3 in, and hammered the floor back about an inch or so. Here's the pics I have so far with most of my details. If you have anything else you want to see or know just let me know.
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3173229

Since you have a 1993 with the 1.6 16 valve and then it will have the 3-speed transmisison with overdrive and then your gearing will be 5.12 in the diff's, not 4.62. IF you want to upgrade you will need a 5.62 or a 5.83 which will get you back to stock with 33"s. So it will still be slightly undergeared with the Thorntirds on it, but sooo much better. E-mail me if you want a set of 5.83's that are already setup on the Track/Kick 3rd members and ready to install.


Sean DeVinney
aftermarket4x4@cox.net

Thanks for all the advice, I'll probably just go with lower tcase gears and more power. After making a list of all the work that it would take this is the eaiser route. Worked fine for my Samurai. I don't have a garage :( and it's hard to work with metal tools when it's below zero outside, so the less work the better.

what size wheel spacers are you running on the front??? and what all did the bumper relocator's consist of???

Thanks for all the advice, I'll probably just go with lower tcase gears and more power. After making a list of all the work that it would take this is the eaiser route. Worked fine for my Samurai. I don't have a garage :( and it's hard to work with metal tools when it's below zero outside, so the less work the better.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

T-case gears won't help you in high range!! Only in low range. Samurai T-cases are designed differently. On a Samurai, they get their lower high range because you have to lower the input gear combined with a bigger contact gear. In a Sidekick case, they only lower the low range for some reason.

Now, if you wanted to do dual cases using a samurai T-case, it will lower your high and low range together.

No wheel spacers on this one. Just the offset wheel. I don't know what the offset is. I'm pretty sure the wheels are 12in wide, but I bought them off of a guy who had them on a Dodge pickup so I have no specifics about them. They are just basic steel wheels spray painted gloss black on the outside. Again, not by me. My old Samurai had the spacers...2.5 in aluminum custom made by a guy in California. Really nice guy who actually talks to you to make sure your order is right. Really good prices too. http://www.wheeladapter.com/wheel_adapters.asp
This is what my Sami looked like with the spacers and 10.5in tires. Notice how far they stick out. http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/3/2693/4581/31732290078_large.jpg

But according to Sean Devinney, he's running a turboed Samurai with the 5.12s and 35s and the power is more than enough to overcome the larger tires. I'll probably go the same way. Or the 1.9TDI conversion. That should have enough torque to get those meats turning with the 5.12s. Should get better mileage too. Just got to wait till summer when my money starts rolling in. Not sure about dual cases right now. The less that could go wrong the better.

To make a reliable turbo setup, your gonna be looking at spending close to $2000, or a lot less if you can find all the stuff used and make your own manifold. I've heard 1.6 can handle 8lbs all day long. If you like to blast into water puddles or anything like that, you may want to think about how a realllllllly hot turbo would like a splash of cooooooold water. Maybe Supercharged would be the way to go?

But according to Sean Devinney, he's running a turboed Samurai with the 5.12s and 35s and the power is more than enough to overcome the larger tires. I'll probably go the same way. Or the 1.9TDI conversion. That should have enough torque to get those meats turning with the 5.12s. Should get better mileage too. Just got to wait till summer when my money starts rolling in. Not sure about dual cases right now. The less that could go wrong the better.

Dual cases = 1 extra part (t-case). That extra part is known for it's reliability
Turbo = a dozen extra parts

I ask you which is more reliable? Figure out a way to replace your existing t-case with a sami one, or get a kicker III from OTT, or better yet - RockRat's adaptor. The samurai t-case is 1.4:1 hi-range reduction stock - re-gearing you perfectly for 35/37" tire. DO NOT put reduction gears in the samurai case: you'll already have the stock Low & the DOUBLER from the dual case setup... and it'll screw up your gearing reduction in hi-range.

And, consider getting Yota axles. You can stay IFS and use yota front anvil & CV if you want... but they're going to hold up to 35" tires, and stock axles probably won't.

i ran a dana 300 dual case setup in mine and couldn't have been happier. i'm now doing the same in my 99' vitara build. however, i ran toys. your truck is goign to be far too unreliable if you gear the t-case. especially the front. i'de go with the 5.83's if i were you, or just say fuckit and go dual case and toys. kicks with IFS are smooth and fun offroad, but 31's is really the limit IMO.

Well it seems the verdict is out and question has been answered. Dual cases and ToyIFS sounds like the popular and capable answer for what I've got planned. Thanks to everyone who gave advice.

Well it seems the verdict is out and question has been answered. Dual cases and ToyIFS sounds like the popular and capable answer for what I've got planned. Thanks to everyone who gave advice.


toy ifs???

You going with a Toyota rear, too? I don't think they make 5.12 Yota gears.

i thought about building a tracker with toyota IFS front and rear, sort of a mini-hummer idea. after some careful studying, i decided it would be way too much work, so many parts to mount to the frame! however, i assume lawson_nate meant he's going with toyota solid swap front and rear. if not, and you are thinking toy IFS front swap, post lots of pics cause this i gotta see.

There have been a couple of guys who swap in a Toyota front IFS... I would like to, but that is probably as expencive as throwing a straight axle under it, but with less durrability.

I've been checking out a lot of forums to figure out what is the best thing to do for my wheeling. I found these two guys, one from Iceland who installed a Toy Rear Solid, and Toy IFS front. He has a turbo mounted and kept stripping/breaking gears. I'm not sure if he used the Vitara or Toyota front CVs (I think Suzuki). The second guy is doing the same but using full Toy parts (CVs included).
Iceland Suzuki Vitara (turbocharged)
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=318480
Other Full Toyota Suzuki
http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/index.php?topic=8896.0
Neither seem like all that much more work but definitly look much stronger. Almost sounds like it would be more work to do an SAS with new springs/mounts/angles/etc... All depends on what you plan to do. IFS should be fine for most 4x4ing because those Iceland guys run HUGE tires because of the snow and ice, and a majority of them love IFS. Somewhere I also found a Canadian company/group that custom designs full front and rear IFS for Jeeps and whatever else they want. IFS is lighter, and higher ground clearance for snow and whatnot. Sure you might not win a rock racing competition but then that's not what I'm building it for. :D

i thought about building a tracker with toyota IFS front and rear, sort of a mini-hummer idea... i assume lawson_nate meant he's going with toyota solid swap front and rear.

My ultimate dream is to make the Sidekick a mini-hummer, how did you know? :flipoff2: I sold my H1-T (http://www.cardomain.com/ride/795405) a while back because it was too big and expensive to fix. Ever since, I've preferred the low-slung less articulation formula. It'll probably never happen :( but that would be awsome. :D

Nope. Sidekick axles.

10 bolt Sidekick diffs are a lot stronger than 12 bolt. Ask Brent.


I don't think so. The only difference in them is the 10 bolt has 10 bolts holding the ring gear to the carrier and the 12 bolt has 12 bolts holding the ring gear to the carrier.......all internal parts, the carriers (other than the 10 bolt holes vs. the 12 bolt holes), and the actual third housings are the same.
So what makes the 10 bolt stronger?

I don't think so.

I don't think so either. R U sure you got that right? Ring gear is same thickness as well as the pinion size.

ASMC went to the "stronger" 12 bolt because HP was increasing, along with weight cap. Remember, the 12 bolt appears under the GV with more weight and a 165hp V6.

Trail Tough (www.trailtough.com) is coming out with an underdrive for people just like you! What it does is seperate your transmission from your t-case with a plate about 3" long. It's like a planetary gear, I've heard, and it is supposed to lower high and low range to 1.5:1 high instead of 1:1 high. Great for people running 35's. Give them a call and ask when they are gonna be done and for how much. I am probably going down there today, so I will ask.

:shocked:

Ba-ba-WHA! Really? Do tell if you found out the scoop. (Tim begins thinking this over a Doubler)

hmmm....

toy ifs???

I'm looking into it. Dual A-arms, much stronger front. Hopefully I can find someone in a Toy forum doing SAS, or long-travel, and I can get their "throw away" stuff cheap... especially since I have a rebuilt front toy solid axle I could swap 'em?

You going with a Toyota rear, too? I don't think they make 5.12 Yota gears.

Someone's already swapped just the front diff - supposed to fit like it was meant to be there. Have to raise the engine 3/4" to fit it.

That said, I'm considering Toy IFS front / solid rear. Just so happen to have a toy rear with Yukon gears & Aussie locker. I'm pricing out doing a SAS & link, and wondering - why not keep the IFS? I like it. I spend WAY more time on street & IFS friendly wheeling than I do rock crawling. I love to do jumps too :D

Sure, it fits like a glove, but you need your front gears to match your rear gears, and for that to work, you either need 5.83's(right?) or Yota axles.

I'm going with yota's F&R. I already have 4.88 gears - which will be perfect with the 35" tires on toy rims I already have & dual cases w/ samurai t-case (1.4:1 hi range) I plan on getting.

I'm just trying to figure out if I can swap toy IFS front (I know I can get matching Yukon 4.88 gears for it), or if I'm doing SAS. SAS is better researched, and I know I can get more help for it... but I LOVE the way IFS handles in the sand & jumping. I realize SAS would be better for rocks... but if IFS can get me through rocks reliably I'll deal with it not being as good as solid. I only plan on rock crawling once or twice a year max. If the IFS will work for me, hopefully I can swap my solid front with a Toyota guy doing a IFS to SAS conversion.

i like the tracker, nate! would have responded sooner but am new here. to answer alot of ?s i read here i will relate my tracker experiences. 2 yrs. back i built a 2dr. cheap. built a 3.5" body lift (i'm sure someone is booing me for that already, but it kept c.o.g. low) and heavily trimmed the body/ beat the floors and mounted 35" custom cut claws. if anybody wonders; yes,cutting tires is alot of work but so worth it! the rig has a 1.6-8v, stock gears were 5.12. it did handle highway speeds with ram air and better exhaust, but struggled on our mountain passes(wyoming). it was a fun rig and i accaepted the marginal power. the ifs handled abuse in rocks fine with open diff. until last winter i welded the diff. it held through winter but chipped the pinion and broke pass cv while hopping hard, while stuck in deep snow. wanting more flotation in snow i stripped it and added toy solids to y link front/3 link rear, fox airs, 39x18 baja balteds(cut 4 snow),ott kicker 2, elec. rr. locker, 4 to 1 in yota case behind kicker 2, 12" frame/body stretch, hydro assist, etc. it's better at some things, but not others. air shocks suck at 10-30 degrees below zero, they sag a bit. the kicker 2 allows me to have a 1.8 highrange. with 4.10 diffs this has me geared within 1% of stock (39" tire). i do run an oil cooler fed by a thermal switched elec. pump due to high shaft speeds during extended highway travel and have experienced no trouble for past 2000 mi. this could solve your gearing problems if combined with the 3.73 gears often discarded by the sammi guys! mini hummer? i have plans to try using a ford 170/aluminum head 6 cyl(310 lb),t-5, ott divorced yota t-case, ford 8.8 ifs/irs(elec. lock/posi avail. from auburn for both ends!) model A type cab&aluminum body work to keep weight way down. deep snow drifts are my nemesis! money and time may cause build to be slow. meanwhile the overworked squirrels under the hood recieve no mercy!

i forgot to mention, the kicker does take awhile to get. ott has a high demand for them, mine took around 5 months.

You going with a Toyota rear, too? I don't think they make 5.12 Yota gears.

no but there are toy 4.30's and kick 4.30's.

That would work for 33's with dual cases!!

We were at the Rubicon with Brent, and my dad's boss broke his rear R&P... I guess the 10 bolts were hard to find.

I don't know any other reason for Brent to stick a 10 bolt in his rig, with Ford 9" axles and the Suz-Anna in the front.

The 10 bolts in that hold up to 37's fine, as long as you don't gas it while you're bouncing up a rock with 500 pounds of camping crap...

We were at the Rubicon with Brent, and my dad's boss broke his rear R&P... I guess the 10 bolts were hard to find.

I don't know any other reason for Brent to stick a 10 bolt in his rig, with Ford 9" axles and the Suz-Anna in the front.

The 10 bolts in that hold up to 37's fine, as long as you don't gas it while you're bouncing up a rock with 500 pounds of camping crap...

The 10 bolt rear thirds were only in the first 2 or 3 years of trackicks.....so yeah, they are harder to find than the 12 bolts. But the 12 bolt complete thirds are a direct swap for axles that have the 10 bolt thirds in them.....so unless he had some aftermarket gears that were 10 bolt, it shouldn't have been too hard to fix a broken rear R&P (simply drop in a 12 bolt third).

Generally it's the axles that give up the ghost first, not the diffs. In both my Samurai's and my Sidekick, I broke many front and rear axles, but never a ring & pinion. The Sidekick's axle shaft even broke in my driveway with nothing more than an automatic, stock gears, and 30" tires! One of my Samurai axles broke as I was accelerating on a freeway onramp. I'd never want to rely on those wimpy 26-spline rear axle shafts, especially with 35's.

Seriously, you're going to want to do a Yota or Dana axle swap if you're going to expect your drivetrain to survive.

How the hell did you break an axle in high range?! What kind of engine do you have?? My dad ran 35's on his stock axles and they held up wonderfully. My Sidekick has an automatic on 31's with 5.12's, and I beat the crap out of it! I bounced going up a really steep hill and kept it floored and didn't break an axle.

Generally it's the axles that give up the ghost first, not the diffs. In both my Samurai's and my Sidekick, I broke many front and rear axles, but never a ring & pinion. The Sidekick's axle shaft even broke in my driveway with nothing more than an automatic, stock gears, and 30" tires! One of my Samurai axles broke as I was accelerating on a freeway onramp. I'd never want to rely on those wimpy 26-spline rear axle shafts, especially with 35's. .

This is either bullsh!t or you had something wrong like a bent housing or already damaged axle from wheeling. I wont real off the reasons this cant be true, but it isnt.

Thanks for the compliments. People really like the look of it. I think it's the tires. Have 2.5in wheel spacers on my Samurai with 31s and get the same reactions. This one is a '93 with the 16v, 6in Masterkit lift (very inexpensive out of canada) 3in spacers, 3in body with bumper relocaters. And 35x14.50 thornbirds and wheels for $250 bucks. Had to cut about a half inch out of the rear fenders right behind the doors, and the front fenders 2 or 3 in, and hammered the floor back about an inch or so. Here's the pics I have so far with most of my details. If you have anything else you want to see or know just let me know.
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3173229
that masterkit lift, where can they be obtained? i'm going to help a friend's son build a rig almost identicle to yours, his is even the same color! also i mentioned in a reply that kicker 2 gives 1.8 high range, i should clarify. the box (kicker 2) will give 1:1 or 1.8:1(stock low). i use it's low as my high range 90% of the time and depend on the toyota case for my "low range" needs. i recommend a least 4:1 low kit for the yota case if your spending much time in rocks. i probably should have used 4.7 or 5:1 with my 39's. for you hardcore rock rats the thought of 4.24 in the box with 5:1 in the yota case should stir some exitement.

How the hell did you break an axle in high range?! What kind of engine do you have?? My dad ran 35's on his stock axles and they held up wonderfully. My Sidekick has an automatic on 31's with 5.12's, and I beat the crap out of it! I bounced going up a really steep hill and kept it floored and didn't break an axle.

Stock 16-v 1600 in my 1995 4-door 4-speed auto daily driver with 4" OME suspension, stock gearing, a rear Lock-Right, and 30" tires. Here's the buildup thread (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=444978). I was in high range creeping up the little hill at the side of my driveway when all of a sudden BANG! the driver's side rear axle snapped like a toothpick.

The Samurai uses the same size 26-spline axles so it's no wonder why the passenger side rear axle all of a sudden went BANG! in 2nd gear as I was accelerating onto Highway 50 in downtown Placerville back when it was on 31" tires with a rear Lock Right and stock gearing.

I think the biggest problem is using an automatic locker on a daily driver. The constant repeated shock-loading as the locker locks & unlocks fatigues the metal which eventually reaches its limit. However, the Sidekick couldn't have had the locker installed for more than 5000 miles before this happened (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=561097).

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l247/rubicon4wheeler/DSCF0999a.jpg