Does anyone know, can you just buy baffles?
Or since they are considered part of a suppresor, they would need to be transfered? Each one on its own form 3?

its just a part... no serial numbered can. a baffle is totally useless without the can to put them in.... so I would imagine it wouldnt be an issue.

However... will a can manufacturer just sell you baffles?!?!?!

baffles are considered intent to build.

i cannot have any extras, but i dont know about you.

its just a part... no serial numbered can. a baffle is totally useless without the can to put them in.... so I would imagine it wouldnt be an issue.

However... will a can manufacturer just sell you baffles?!?!?!

Wrong, and no.

You cannot have just baffles, any part of a suppressor is considered a suppressor unto itself with the exception of wipes and sometimes nielsen devices.

No, you cannot just "buy" baffles...However if you send the can back to the manufacture, you can "buy" replacement baffles, but they will do the install.

That really sucks. It would be awesome if you could have 1 can with different baffles and end caps for different calibers.

baffles are considered intent to build.

i cannot have any extras, but i dont know about you.

This

Wrong, and no.

You cannot have just baffles, any part of a suppressor is considered a suppressor unto itself with the exception of wipes and sometimes nielsen devices.

and this

That really sucks. It would be awesome if you could have 1 can with different baffles and end caps for different calibers.

I think that could be done :evil:

ok, another "legal" question:
would a "baffled" (for no better choice of word) muzzle break that is ported (think AMD-65ish brake) that screws into a can, the can containing the rest of the needed baffles and sound containment/surpressor shit be considered a "silencer baffle" ?

You know, a ported baffled muzzle brake for each caliber and ONE silencer that integrates with it.

If the idea illudes you I can draw it.

I guess that brings up the question, when do I submit my form 2? Prior to begining any work at all?

I guess that brings up the question, when do I submit my form 2? Prior to begining any work at all?

i assume yes :laughing:

oh and here is the idea I was talking.

Off to silencertalk.

Doc as I understand it you can not legally even have one extra baffle, piece, etc for the can

Off to silencertalk.

Doc as I understand it you can not legally even have one extra baffle, piece, etc for the can

but its a "muzzle brake/adapter" no different than the QD or Cobra Pistons for YHM :D

I am serious. Its just a brake, with baffles (same as a lot of them out there) and the silencer itself threads and aligns to.

but its a "muzzle brake/adapter" no different than the QD or Cobra Pistons for YHM :D

I am serious. Its just a brake, with baffles (same as a lot of them out there) and the silencer itself threads and aligns to.

any sound attenuating device is considered a suppressor

It's a very grey area, but if you're the MFR then you can potentially replace baffles or replace with larger bore baffles for "extra bullet clearance" as long as you properly destroy the old parts or in the case of a bullet strike. Gemtech recently pissed a lot of people off recently by stirring the giant and trying to make the atf flat out state whether or not you could replace any parts of a can without more form 1's after AAC started tearing the guts out of gemtech cans and replacing them with better ones for a much smaller fee than their own. The only part of a can that isn't considered a silencer by itself is a wipe.
Are you a class 2 SOT?

Doc, your brake would become a silencer as soon as you put a tube over it, even after the tube was removed. They have even ruled that excessive barrel porting close to the chamber is a "silencer".

And as far as I know, if you have a manufacturing sot, you only have to report the weapon within 24 hours of it having been built. If it were on a form 1, you obviously can't start building it until the stamp comes back.

I am a 07/SOT
I know about 24hrs for the SBRs I have been doing, didn't know if that applied to suppressors. Since a single baffle counts as a suppressor, form 2 when the first baffle is built or entire thing?

The cool thing is, it doesn't cost me to register. So I can do a lot of R&D. If it doesn't work I am not out more then cost of materials.

So doc for your idea its really just a very long brake that acts as a QD device for the can. Similar to the YHM set up, only much longer?

any sound attenuating device is considered a suppressor

thats the key words.

A ported baffled brake does not make it any quieter.As long as it is made correctly to only "PORT" the gasses it would do nothing at all other than act as a brake.
When the actual suppressor is not attached.



Doc, your brake would become a silencer as soon as you put a tube over it, even after the tube was removed. They have even ruled that excessive barrel porting close to the chamber is a "silencer".

not as soon as you put a "tube" over it, but as soon as you put the correctly designed "tube" with baffles to ..."baffle" :laughing: the now ported gasses.

A YHM QD flash hider is just that, a flash hider with threads. UNTIL you screw the actual registered item on it.

it would be no more diffrent than magnaporting a barrel is from an integrated suppressor. One is just holes, the other is directing those holes into baffles to reduce sound.

So doc for your idea its really just a very long brake that acts as a QD device for the can. Similar to the YHM set up, only much longer?

correct.
flash hider.
LONG
threads on end and a raised area near the muzzle to seal.
"baffles" with the correct sized hole for your caliber.
"baffles" are directly corresponding to ports. (ala AMD-65 brake or 74 brake both have "baffles" )

when the "can" is screwed on, the ports line up to the "sound reducing baffles" and disrupt/sound deaden the muzzle blast.

correct.
flash hider.
LONG
threads on end and a raised area near the muzzle to seal.
"baffles" with the correct sized hole for your caliber.
"baffles" are directly corresponding to ports. (ala AMD-65 brake or 74 brake both have "baffles" )

when the "can" is screwed on, the ports line up to the "sound reducing baffles" and disrupt/sound deaden the muzzle blast.

Only thing I can say is, you know how the ATF works. As long as they don't have you in their sights then you can get away with most anything. As soon as an agent thinks you need another look, everything becomes illegal. The sad part is, they are vague on a lot so much is up to their interpretation. If you really want clarification, send your drawings to the atf tech dept...it's one of those "rather ask for forgiveness than permission", except with worse consequences. :flipoff2:

I am a 07/SOT
I know about 24hrs for the SBRs I have been doing, didn't know if that applied to suppressors. Since a single baffle counts as a suppressor, form 2 when the first baffle is built or entire thing?

The cool thing is, it doesn't cost me to register. So I can do a lot of R&D. If it doesn't work I am not out more then cost of materials.

Rules are different for you. From reading what the manufacturers on ST say, you can have boxes of baffles and tubes laying around but when you put it together and serial the tube, it's a silencer. I'm sure you don't have the time, but I'm sure the atf has plenty of reading material out there on the subject.

I guess that brings up the question, when do I submit my form 2? Prior to begining any work at all?

Yup

Here is a link for a supressor build. Its arfcom with actual tech and no cock sucking

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=20&t=199744

Yup

Here is a link for a supressor build. Its arfcom with actual tech and no cock sucking

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=20&t=199744

The rules are different for Aloha though as he's a manufacturer, not just a guy with a form 1.

At what point does "intent" come into play?

At what point does "intent" come into play?

Whenever BATFE says it does.

Whenever BATFE says it does.

god i hate those guys.:mad3: I had been playing around with an idea very similar to docs. If i build a long threaded flash suppressor with threads, and machine/thread a tube to go over it, it is not a suppressor until its been assembled correct? now if i take these to a licensed manufacturer, he does the final work and fills out the proper paperwork, how many laws will i be breaking? :laughing:

god i hate those guys.:mad3: I had been playing around with an idea very similar to docs. If i build a long threaded flash suppressor with threads, and machine/thread a tube to go over it, it is not a suppressor until its been assembled correct? now if i take these to a licensed manufacturer, he does the final work and fills out the proper paperwork, how many laws will i be breaking? :laughing:

That's the thing, if you have a big huge muzzle brake that looks a lot like a mono core can with a tube that just happens to fit into the threads on the outside of the brake, then you really have just built a mono core can.

You can do all of the work yourself as long as our kind, loving masters decide that your hearing is worthy of saving and approve a form 1 for you.

That's the thing, if you have a big huge muzzle brake that looks a lot like a mono core can with a tube that just happens to fit into the threads on the outside of the brake, then you really have just built a mono core can.

You can do all of the work yourself as long as our kind, loving masters decide that your hearing is worthy of saving and approve a form 1 for you.

thanks trh, i am just trying to build fun stuff and avoid going to uncle sams house of surprise buttsecks.

That's the thing, if you have a big huge muzzle brake that looks a lot like a mono core can with a tube that just happens to fit into the threads on the outside of the brake, then you really have just built a mono core can.

You can do all of the work yourself as long as our kind, loving masters decide that your hearing is worthy of saving and approve a form 1 for you.

like this one (and I have already gathered up the stuff to copy it :laughing: )

like this one (and I have already gathered up the stuff to copy it :laughing: )

how long is that?

I think that guy made it about 6" long.

All aluminum with a 304 or 316 stainless insert in the first chamber to cut down on erosion.

how well does titanium hold up to erosion?

how well does titanium hold up to erosion?

I'd imagine it holds up really well. I've seen it used in a lot of very high temp (1200*C+) engine exhaust applications. If it can stand up to thousands of hours of those kinds of temps it should be good to go with momentary bursts of heat from a gun. I'd be more interested in the chemical interaction between muzzle gasses and the metal, but I bet it will hold up fine.

so have you started production on these yet?
I would imagine that would take a while with a dremel...

so have you started production on these yet?
I would imagine that would take a while with a dremel...

no just working on drawings and figuring. I can't do anything till my stamp gets back. I was wondering what to reinforce the blast chamber with, either stainless or Ti.