hey guys,

1st up great site and been watching for a while.

I have a '87 D90 with about a 2" lift and flare trimming running 35's (maxxis creepy crawlers) have a fair amount of flex running softish springs (can't remember spring rate at the moment) and dislocation cones in the rear.

question is looking to try and get variable spring rates for when carrying all my camping gear/towing camper trailer, then out on the tracks, and the only way i can see is to either run polyairs, or similar, inside my current spring - abit fiddly with dislocation cones, or run full airbag suspension. talking to a few people and should be ableto run up to a 16" travel bag with some mods (firestone bags)

i still want it to be easily drivable for beach trips, etc. - and our dept of transport is pretty harsh with modded 4WD's.

curious who here may have done similar mods, pros, cons, pics, etc?

any other ideas to solve what i'm after?

no one (to my knowledge) has done it over here 'downunder' to 90's (90's aren't common over here) - only seen bags on a 110 ute, there is 'off the shelf' airock system for jeeps though.


coupla pics of my 90 the 'wombat'

when i first got her 3 1/2 yrs ago:laughing:
http://s325.photobucket.com/albums/k398/def_90/?action=view&current=untitled8.jpg


http://s325.photobucket.com/albums/k398/def_90/?action=view&current=untitled.jpg


sitting on 'road and beach tyres' 33" MTZ's
http://s325.photobucket.com/albums/k398/def_90/?action=view&current=autoand43install024.jpg

couple of ramp queen shots - always on the wrong side of the wheel to take many trail pics

http://s325.photobucket.com/albums/k398/def_90/?action=view&current=Copyofflexscorpionbar003.jpg

http://s325.photobucket.com/albums/k398/def_90/?action=view&current=flexscorpionbar014.jpg

http://s325.photobucket.com/albums/k398/def_90/?action=view&current=flexscorpionbar005.jpg

http://s325.photobucket.com/albums/k398/def_90/?action=view&current=thesprings019.jpg

http://s325.photobucket.com/albums/k398/def_90/?action=view&current=cruisercanyon2.jpg

http://s325.photobucket.com/albums/k398/def_90/?action=view&current=cruisercanyon.jpg

http://s325.photobucket.com/albums/k398/def_90/?action=view&current=DSC02799.jpg



any info would be great

cheers

sam

Just bolt the parts on. Its as easy as that. Manual fill for the springs would be best. Or a cab controled manual fill. Arnott for the springs.

Just bolt the parts on. Its as easy as that. Manual fill for the springs would be best. Or a cab controled manual fill. Arnott for the springs.

Pendy, is that schrader then direct to the airbag?

why dont you remove the dislocation cones, retain your springs, fit polyairs and valve them so the are linked when difflocked and seperated when on road...id be more inclined to spend the money on new front and rear arms, a frame and panhard before i converted to airbags.....

Serg

I am, um, "working" on using an AiRock. It is very complicated and does not sound like what you want.

I agree with uninformed about removing the dislocation cones and putting the polyairs or similar in there. When you dislocate the spring you are sacrificing the ability for the weight of the axle, wheel, and tire (tyre ;)) to keep you from tipping over. I know this may start a huge debate, but I'd rather have the spring retained and loose some articulation over possibly tumbling down a hill in an off camber situation.

As far as using pure air springs, these are the ones I am using and they have 11.5" of travel. http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8300444&postcount=81 Not sure where you find 16" travel bags, but for your application you will want a smaller diameter bag around 13cm - not the 30cm truck bags.

I do have Schrader valves that attach directly to the air line for my initial set up and to use if the computer goes on the fritz, so I do know those are available.

I think you need another hood scoop and a full set of LH Drive controls added to improve the balance of your rig :flipoff2:

Lookin good, hopefully you will get the advice you desire.

Cheers,
Patrick

Just bolt the parts on. Its as easy as that. Manual fill for the springs would be best. Or a cab controled manual fill. Arnott for the springs.

thanks pendy, have sent arnott's a few text in past and no reply's, as i don't want 'standard coil' type replacement bags and to see what else they may have thats suitable.

why dont you remove the dislocation cones, retain your springs, fit polyairs and valve them so the are linked when difflocked and seperated when on road...id be more inclined to spend the money on new front and rear arms, a frame and panhard before i converted to airbags.....

Serg

hey Serg, have thought of similar concepts, probably what i'll end up with due to ease and cost. was just curious on bags for flexibilty in ride height, etc. no castor issues on road, adjustable spring rates at different heights, from what i've 'heard' superior ride over corrugations, etc, etc, and just to try something a little different for rovers over here...


I think you need another hood scoop and a full set of LH Drive controls added to improve the balance of your rig

hey patrick, dodgy hood scoop was a temporary item from recent diesel days, not really sure on the LH controls thing:D

has anyone tried or used a similar type of system to the X-eng 'telescopic' springs? seen other mobs make them in the past. do they actually perform on the tracks?

I was just thinkin that if you come to a particular obstacle on the LH side without a spotter, you could just slide over and get a good view of what was going on and keep on drivin :grinpimp:

Of course, you could then have a side job as a driver's instructor and earn some more wheelin cash :grinpimp:

Load Leveling air springs from Firestone
http://www.firestoneindustrial.com/asiapacific/lighttruck/productinfo/coilspring/info_01.shtml

Kit for D90
http://www.firestoneindustrial.com/riderite/rrkit/kit.php?rri=489&rrk=4121

You may find something else, but it is a start....

I've started installing my air springs. The ones I have seem to be approx 2" longer than those used by cumminsrover.

Unpressurised the extended length measures 21-1/4". Details provided were 21" extended (limit to 20"), 6" compressed (limit to 7"), 7" max diameter (I assume at 100psi). So approx 14" max travel.

Comparing these to rear Arnott Gen3 airsprings; 17.75" extended (14.75" front), 7.75" compressed (6.25" front), 6.6" diam. So 10" rear and 8-1/2" front travel.

Comparing pistons, mine are 3-1/4" at top (3.57" Arnott), 5-1/2" base (5" Arnott), 5" high (5-1/2" Arnott rear, 4-1/2" Arnott front).

I would not expect the Arnott airsprings to perform any better over the same range of travel.

I want to try coil springs inside the pistons to gain approx 2" extra travel. These would perform much like the X-springs from X-Eng (http://www.x-eng.co.uk/X-Spring.asp). Waiting till after the holidays to order springs from Eibach.

can't wait to see how it al turns out john!!!

Could you please post the numbers off of the springs? Also what is the un-inflated OD and top plate OD so I can make sure I use a similar ratio to make sure I have proper clearance around the spring?

Mine are Firestone
Build Order W01-358-9317
Top Plate Style 18773452
Bag Style 1T26D-5
Piston Style 1T26D-7

Since your compressed length is 6" then you probably do not have an internal jounce bumper so definitely do not allow them to bottom out at all.

I cannot seem to find the spec sheet for these springs though that states the recommended ride height and spring curves or the maximum inflated OD...

Firestone airsprings, but stickers on all springs have had the Firestone assembly number removed, so I don't know that.

Part No of top bead plate is 18383452
Part No of bellows is 1T26D7
Part No of piston is 1T26D-7

The un-inflated diameter (just below the bead plate) is 4-3/8".

Edit: OD of bead plate is 5-1/4"

These are the airsprings that AiRock supply for the 6" lift TJ Jeep kit.

The extended/compressed height and inflated diameter dimensions I listed in my last post were obtained from AiRock - I haven't been able to find Firestone data sheets for these airsprings (it doesn't help not having the assembly number).

I have almost completed the front airspring installation in my rangie (with Isuzu 4BD1-T engine - very similar to Cummins 4BT). Need to buy some airline fittings on Monday. The pic below is front left airspring installed (nuts at top not fitted and waiting for airline fitting).

I am kicking this old thread up to see if anyone can clue me in on where to buy a set of the Firestone air springs with the build order number W01-358-9317? Google ate up an hour of time and produced nothing traceable using that number or any form of it.

Thanks for any tips or suggestions on who to call or web sites to visit.



Could you please post the numbers off of the springs? Also what is the un-inflated OD and top plate OD so I can make sure I use a similar ratio to make sure I have proper clearance around the spring?

Mine are Firestone
Build Order W01-358-9317
Top Plate Style 18773452
Bag Style 1T26D-5
Piston Style 1T26D-7

Since your compressed length is 6" then you probably do not have an internal jounce bumper so definitely do not allow them to bottom out at all.

I cannot seem to find the spec sheet for these springs though that states the recommended ride height and spring curves or the maximum inflated OD...

Contact Off Road Only (http://www.offroadonly.com/contact/questions1.shtml). I believe they will sell you just the springs from their AiRock kit. I have still only purchased a partial kit, though I am starting to get close enough to get the rest of it. The springs you are looking for are from the 4" lift kit, and the ones Bush65 got are from the 6" kit.

Thanks. I have already spoken to Shane at ORO about the kit. I asked if there were two different springs for the lift and he said no??? The 9317 Firestone number is what he gave me on the phone when we were talking about their 4" short arm kit.

I am only installing these springs in the rear of my LJ, with NO computer control or height sensors. This is an expo rig, not a crawler, and I do not want or need the computer controlled manifold, although it is a pretty slick system.

I have found a couple of (alleged) Firestone IP dealers in NJ, and will call them. My local truck parts house in PA came up empty with the partial (9317) number.

Thanks again for the response CR.


Contact Off Road Only (http://www.offroadonly.com/contact/questions1.shtml). I believe they will sell you just the springs from their AiRock kit. I have still only purchased a partial kit, though I am starting to get close enough to get the rest of it. The springs you are looking for are from the 4" lift kit, and the ones Bush65 got are from the 6" kit.

how do the bags do in high speed bumps and in slow rock crawling type situations? as i recall, they have a wierd progressive spring rate right? then that changes depending on the air pressure? i would love to bag my d2 to get it into the garage easier....

Yeah, I talked to Red (Steve) and he said there is 2" of rubber difference between the 4" and 6", but that was in May 2007. I have tried to contact Firestone about these numbers as well, and their parts system must suck because they cannot find anything about the part number.

Use the other numbers to find the springs.
Top Plate Style 18773452
Bag Style 1T26D-5
Piston Style 1T26D-7

Kyle_T, yes the rate is progressive because the piston on the bottom increases in diameter towards the bottom. If you go to Firestone's website you may find some rate charts with some digging.

http://www.firestoneindustrial.com/pdfs/Aftermarket/EuroCat_East_08.pdf Page 72, 1T26D-7, W01-D08-9310 is almost what Bush65 got, but he has an internal bumper.

Maybe Page 40, W01-358-0622 would work. It is all about figuring out their part numbering scheme. The online catalog search sucks, and it couldn't find any springs with the 1T26D-5 style spring so that's probably why the Firestone people are having trouble helping.

Here is another catalog http://www.firestoneindustrial.com/video/IntAftCD/data/pdfs/AftCat.pdf

Aside from the air-springs. What are people using for relocating the front dampers? I haven't put any time into it, but forwards of the axle in the EAS loction appears to be the only real option.

Aside from the air-springs. What are people using for relocating the front dampers? I haven't put any time into it, but forwards of the axle in the EAS loction appears to be the only real option.
Forward of axle is easiest with rover.

Yeah, I talked to Red (Steve) and he said there is 2" of rubber difference between the 4" and 6", ...

Use the other numbers to find the springs.
Top Plate Style 18773452
Bag Style 1T26D-5
Piston Style 1T26D-7

...
In the last part of the Firestone code for the bellows, I believe is where you can see that 2" rubber difference.

Your bellows are 1T26D-5, where mine from the ORO 6" kit, are 1T26D-7.

...

http://www.firestoneindustrial.com/pdfs/Aftermarket/EuroCat_East_08.pdf Page 72, 1T26D-7, W01-D08-9310 is almost what Bush65 got, but he has an internal bumper.

...[/URL]
My springs are similar but not the same as those W01-D08-9310. Max and min heights are the same, bellows part number is the same, dimensions given for piston (small diameter and height) are the same. But the attachment of bellows to piston is different and the shape of the curve at the base is different - perhaps this is just artistic license in the catalogue. My piston is the same as yours only the bellows is different for more travel.

I don't think my bellows has the internal buffer.

The stickers with Firestone assembly number were removed from my air springs when I received them, but one had part of the number left W01-358-????, so different to that in the catalogue.

Before I got air springs, when researching them I found someone in the UK that fitted air springs to a landy. He used those W01-D08-9310 air springs at the time I saved some of his pics for reference, but I didn't find them in my Firestone catalogues, so I didn't have the dimensions.

Here are some of his pics.

If the springs are custom customer ordered they get a part number, but I believe they will not show up in a catalog. I am not certain if only that customer can order those part numbers or not though.

The only reason I went with the 4" lift springs over the 6" is I did not think I could fit 16" shocks in the rear without heavy tub modification. My air springs travel 12" but the shocks are a bit farther outboard and they have to go 14" for full air spring articulation. It turns out that if I modify my tool box I could fit 16" shocks and the 6" air springs, but I really don't want to do that.