http://www.lawofficer.com/news-and-articles/articles/lom/0412/the_peter_soulis_incident.html;jsessionid=10BDC02F 0CF4D0B083E43EA06A47B949pital

Damn.

:eek:

Fuckin wow. 22 total hits and still going. It says the autopsy only showed small amounts of alcohol but I don't know about that. How in the hell does someone take 17 hits center mass and still be up and fighting.

Fuckin wow. 22 total hits and still going. It says the autopsy only showed small amounts of alcohol but I don't know about that. How in the hell does someone take 17 hits center mass and still be up and fighting.

lots of empty space in there to not hit anything. A hole in the lung is the same as 8 holes in that same lung.

That cop is a stud. I respect him.

So was it a Glock 22 or a Glock 17? Article seems to mention both...

I think it was 17 rounds of .40 from a glock 22. I think that the article has the numbers 17 and 22 transposed.

lots of empty space in there to not hit anything. A hole in the lung is the same as 8 holes in that same lung.

:confused: not quite unless they were in the same exact spot, more holes = more mass trauma tissues damage = more bleeding = death faster or so one would think.

But if they were all lung shots I guess someone could hold their breath for ~4mins or survive without lung functions if the heart is still pumping blood. Seems like with that many holes though your blood pressure would go through the floor and that would be it?

Anyways that is crazy...

I would guess their are two morals to that story, Never give up,stay in the fight no matter what and if possiable, put rounds into the head.


And, That cop is a huge stud.

Adrenaline is an amazing hormone.

:confused: not quite unless they were in the same exact spot, more holes = more mass trauma tissues damage = more bleeding = death faster or so one would think.

But if they were all lung shots I guess someone could hold their breath for ~4mins or survive without lung functions if the heart is still pumping blood. Seems like with that many holes though your blood pressure would go through the floor and that would be it?

Anyways that is crazy...

if all your shots hit the right side of the chest, from the bottom of the ribs to the clavicle you only kill one lung. Not only that but there is not a whole hell of a lot of blood vessels there.
Even if you perforate BOTH lungs with bullets you still can work pretty well for a bit. sucking chest wound/shit like that takes 30min at LEAST to kill you.

Almost all of the blood vessels needed to take you out in under 10min are pretty much right in the midline, and they are not much wider than your finger. hard targets with a .4" projectile. Now if you tag the heart, then its usually a done deal. but they can still go for enough time to kill you.

Adrenalin is a vasoconstrictor, your BP goes up, the blood loss negates it self that way

if all your shots hit the right side of the chest, from the bottom of the ribs to the clavicle you only kill one lung. Not only that but there is not a whole hell of a lot of blood vessels there.
Even if you perforate BOTH lungs with bullets you still can work pretty well for a bit. sucking chest wound/shit like that takes 30min at LEAST to kill you.

Almost all of the blood vessels needed to take you out in under 10min are pretty much right in the midline, and they are not much wider than your finger. hard targets with a .4" projectile. Now if you tag the heart, then its usually a done deal. but they can still go for enough time to kill you.

Adrenalin is a vasoconstrictor, your BP goes up, the blood loss negates it self that way

yeah that makes more sence.

Adrenaline is an amazing hormone.




Endorphin.



They were both pumping out mega amounts of endorphin.

The four minutes the perp lived after the last round was fired was how long said perp took to bleed out.


Similar to hunting deer or elk, etc.

If you don't sever the central nervous system, the animal will run until it bleeds out.

Adrenalin is a vasoconstrictor, your BP goes up, the blood loss negates it self that way




Ah!!


Excellent point. I hadn't thought of that :beer: !

I did have an ulterior motive, as well. Next time someone is deliberating between a 7-round EMP, and a tupperware gun of similar size that holds 16 rounds, I have somewhere to point them. :D

This kind of story isn't rare. At all.

Sure, the 'average' gunfight lasts, what? Is 2 or 3 rounds the standard quoted figure?
I still don't like the idea of carrying a singlestack, when I can carry 16 in the gun without going to a much larger package.

There is a video I have seen and I think I have mentioned it before. A South Carolina State Trooper goes out with a subject on a routine traffic stop. It's all cool until the suspect won't take his hand out of his pocket. It finally erupts into a gun fight with the Trooper getting 6 center mass hits on the subject his .357 Magnum service revolver. The suspect is using a .22 pistol, hits the Trooper once. The Trooper dies on scene before backup and medics arrive. The suspect lives, and is walking and talking and able to tell talk to the medics with no problem. He suffered no life threatening injuries. The .22 entered in the arm pit area missing the vest, struck a rib and into the heart of the Trooper. The 6 center mass hits on the suspect did nothing.

I have that issue out in the car. When I read that and what the blood test came back with, all I could do was :eek::eek::eek:

Holleeeee crap. Wild.

Endorphin.

Are you suggesting that adrenaline is an endorphin? Or are you saying that it was an endorphin dump that kept them both jacked up?



There is a video I have seen and I think I have mentioned it before. A South Carolina State Trooper goes out with a subject on a routine traffic stop. It's all cool until the suspect won't take his hand out of his pocket. It finally erupts into a gun fight with the Trooper getting 6 center mass hits on the subject his .357 Magnum service revolver. The suspect is using a .22 pistol, hits the Trooper once. The Trooper dies on scene before backup and medics arrive. The suspect lives, and is walking and talking and able to tell talk to the medics with no problem. He suffered no life threatening injuries. The .22 entered in the arm pit area missing the vest, struck a rib and into the heart of the Trooper. The 6 center mass hits on the suspect did nothing.

Off the top of my head, I can think of two cops killed in the last few years with a single round of .380.

I'm now going to add "luck" right around "shot placement" in the can-ya-kill-'em-with-this-? flow chart.

Here is another article with pictures of the autopsy (NSFW) that discusses a similar incident: http://www.defensivecarry.com/documents/officer.pdf
What I found most interesting was this statement: It is impossible for .40 S&W 180 gr. JHP ammunition to expand with only 1 in. or less
penetration in a human body.

That cop is a stud.

Yeah, especially since he didn't call for backup until it was all over. I'd say that cop was not the sharpest pencil in the box. :shaking:

Yeah, especially since he didn't call for backup until it was all over. I'd say that cop was not the sharpest pencil in the box. :shaking:

Riiight. Let me know what you're primary concern is when you've been shot several times and are bleeding heavily. :laughing:

hint: It probably will be eliminating the obvious threat, not calling for back-up that may take minutes to arrive.

WOW :eek:

That cop :smokin:

Are you suggesting that adrenaline is an endorphin? Or are you saying that it was an endorphin dump that kept them both jacked up?


They are two separate chemicals in the body.


Endorphins allow someone to immediately after injury feel a sense of power and control over themselves which allows them to persist with activity for an extended time.

Adrenaline is properly referred to as Epinephrine (Fight or flight hormone). When secreted into the bloodstream, it rapidly prepares the body for action in emergency situations. The hormone boosts the supply of oxygen and glucose to the brain and muscles, while suppressing other non-emergency bodily processes.

Yeah, especially since he didn't call for backup until it was all over. I'd say that cop was not the sharpest pencil in the box. :shaking:




You bring up a good point.


And I'll only speak for S. CA law enforcement.

San Diego Police would have called for back up before initiating contact with perp.

In addition, after hours, SDPD has two-officer patrols: One officer would make contact while the other shadowed at the perp's 4:00 o'clock.

Also, while waiting for back up, the plates would have been run to see if there's a history.


During my speeding days in the '80's when I got pulled over by CHP, before the officer would exit his/her vehicle, my plates were already run and they knew what they were dealing with.

If I'd already hit the guy more than a few times center mass and he was still kicking I'd probably go ahead and try to put one in his head. :flipoff2:

You bring up a good point.


And I'll only speak for S. CA law enforcement.

San Diego Police would have called for back up before initiating contact with perp.

In addition, after hours, SDPD has two-officer patrols: One officer would make contact while the other shadowed at the perp's 4:00 o'clock.

Also, while waiting for back up, the plates would have been run to see if there's a history.


During my speeding days in the '80's when I got pulled over by CHP, before the officer would exit his/her vehicle, my plates were already run and they knew what they were dealing with.

It stated in the article that the poilce officer was un able to check the plates as the system was down at the time he tried to check the plates.

They are two separate chemicals in the body.


Endorphins allow someone to immediately after injury feel a sense of power and control over themselves which allows them to persist with activity for an extended time.

Adrenaline is properly referred to as Epinephrine (Fight or flight hormone). When secreted into the bloodstream, it rapidly prepares the body for action in emergency situations. The hormone boosts the supply of oxygen and glucose to the brain and muscles, while suppressing other non-emergency bodily processes.

I know.

You bring up a good point.


And I'll only speak for S. CA law enforcement.

San Diego Police would have called for back up before initiating contact with perp.

In addition, after hours, SDPD has two-officer patrols: One officer would make contact while the other shadowed at the perp's 4:00 o'clock.

Also, while waiting for back up, the plates would have been run to see if there's a history.


During my speeding days in the '80's when I got pulled over by CHP, before the officer would exit his/her vehicle, my plates were already run and they knew what they were dealing with.

Different agencies operate differently. Even though I would probably be on the radio screaming like a little bitch, in most of my cases, there's nothing my backup can do except clean up the mess...........

I think it was 17 rounds of .40 from a glock 22. I think that the article has the numbers 17 and 22 transposed.

No it was 22 hits... 17 of which were COM

Different agencies operate differently. Even though I would probably be on the radio screaming like a little bitch, in most of my cases, there's nothing my backup can do except clean up the mess...........




Roger that.

i know.




o.k. :) !

Different agencies operate differently. Even though I would probably be on the radio screaming like a little bitch, in most of my cases, there's nothing my backup can do except clean up the mess...........

Or backup is too far away. I have had a game Trooper out with a Felony subject and it took 40 minuets of code 3 driving for his backup to arrive. But I agree being on the other end of the radio, with that situation I would have been much happier having someone rolling to him.

Is it me or is NCIC down often? :confused:

There is a video I have seen and I think I have mentioned it before. A South Carolina State Trooper goes out with a subject on a routine traffic stop. It's all cool until the suspect won't take his hand out of his pocket. It finally erupts into a gun fight with the Trooper getting 6 center mass hits on the subject his .357 Magnum service revolver. The suspect is using a .22 pistol, hits the Trooper once. The Trooper dies on scene before backup and medics arrive. The suspect lives, and is walking and talking and able to tell talk to the medics with no problem. He suffered no life threatening injuries. The .22 entered in the arm pit area missing the vest, struck a rib and into the heart of the Trooper. The 6 center mass hits on the suspect did nothing.

If you watch the video....the suspect had a VERY LARGE belly that helped absorb the .357 rounds...he was not walking around...he was only able to sit up....as the trooper got up to use his radio the suspects last shot entered his armpit area between his vest panels and entered his heart. he lived for about 2-3 more min. and the trooper was still able to use his radio.

Is it me or is NCIC down often? :confused:

I can't even begin to get into the details of the inner workings, but like here in OK, we have a state system that connects to NCIC. Although I know it happens that NCIC goes down, I have never heard of it. The state system though......................................:shaki ng:

I know like us, our state system will go down usually once a week at a certain time for maintenance. Some places I know have that time set at like the quietest time possible but not Oklahoma. Seems like almost every Saturday night, they take the system down for maintenance. If our state system is down, then we be fucked. Hell, we'll even have times where for hours on end, we can't check in state stuff, but we can check out of state stuff. Or we can check driver licenses, but not tags.:mad3:

On top of that, our own connection seems like it goes down a lot. It's a frightening concept just looking at it from the outside. Hell, I've even kicked our dispatchers away from the computer at times to run my own stuff during an investigation and within two minutes, I'm ready to kick the fucking computer because the keyboard operations are ass backwards........

Is it me or is NCIC down often? :confused:

several times a day around here, and that situation would have been different here. As soon as the officer became suspicious he'd have had people from all corner's of hell there in the blink of an eye.

Dad got stopped a while back at night for no lights on the trailer. The young fellow that stopped him got kinda agitated when the 'system' was down. Dunno if that was NCIC. Turned out the plug had worked loose a little and he was back on the road.

I just vaguely remember hearing stuff about NCIC being down... probably from CSI or some other similar show. :laughing:

This kind of story isn't rare. At all.

Sure, the 'average' gunfight lasts, what? Is 2 or 3 rounds the standard quoted figure?
I still don't like the idea of carrying a singlestack, when I can carry 16 in the gun without going to a much larger package.

Another reason why I always try to point out that pistols are not lethal.
Don't expect to shoot someone and they fall over, staying down.
Prepare to shoot until empty, then possibly run or fight with a 4# blunt weapon in your hand.

Exactly. Some determined to kill you, is probably still going to be fighting when your slide locks back. If you're lucky, you get that fucker who panicks when they get shot, and just wants to get away.

From what I've seen, the two most important factors in a pistol fight are
1) The mindset of the attacker
2) The location of his wounds

A G19 will finally hit slide lock right about the time a 7+1 1911 is pumping the first round out of it's third magazine. Reloads take time, coordination, and both hands to execute well. This is why I don't particularly care for 1911s as a carry weapon.

I used to carry a hicap .45, and found it too bulky. I'm not professional enough to carry one. :flipoff2:

Moral of the story, a center head shot takes down right now! no questions asked. It's no smaller a target than center mass chest (killing zone) and no one wears body armor on thier face. Any shot making contact does far more damage than a center mass chest shot. Also use Hydro-Shock type ammo that mushrooms flat while retaining 90+% bullet mass. This adds up to big trama and big "stopping-power".

The military did extensive testing on the real-world "knock-down" power of the 1911 colt .45 ACP vs. the NATO 9mm rounds in the early '80s. Every test concluded that the "stopping power" of the .45 cal. was double, even tripple that of the 9mm. Our government in it's infinite wisdom chose to give the contract for sidearms to a foreign company in the interests of "good relations", while screwing an American company. Not to mention the lucrative ammo contract, especially when you have to shoot twice as much. :shaking:

Moral of the story, a center head shot takes down right now! no questions asked. It's no smaller a target than center mass chest (killing zone) and no one wears body armor on thier face. Any shot making contact does far more damage than a center mass chest shot. Also use Hydro-Shock type ammo that mushrooms flat while retaining 90+% bullet mass. This adds up to big trama and big "stopping-power".

The military did extensive testing on the real-world "knock-down" power of the 1911 colt .45 ACP vs. the NATO 9mm rounds in the early '80s. Every test concluded that the "stopping power" of the .45 cal. was double, even tripple that of the 9mm. Our government in it's infinite wisdom chose to give the contract for sidearms to a foreign company in the interests of "good relations", while screwing an American company. Not to mention the lucrative ammo contract, especially when you have to shoot twice as much. :shaking:


My god.

+1 ...

Someone's been spending to much time on SWILLTHEMOTHUFAWKINGKOOLAIDBYTHEGALLON.com. :laughing: :eek:

How many rounds do you suppose dude would have soaked up if it'd been a 9mm? How many if a .45? My guess, since ALL HANDGUNS SUCK, is 17 rounds... or 17 rounds.

Do you want me to start finding stories where a headshot failed to stop from a pistol? The human brain is an organ so critical that it's encased in bone. Pistol rounds fail to penetrate it frequently. And you can still kill a man with a face that's half missing.

Moral of the story, a center head shot takes down right now! no questions asked. It's no smaller a target than center mass chest (killing zone) and no one wears body armor on thier face. Any shot making contact does far more damage than a center mass chest shot. Also use Hydro-Shock type ammo that mushrooms flat while retaining 90+% bullet mass. This adds up to big trama and big "stopping-power".

The military did extensive testing on the real-world "knock-down" power of the 1911 colt .45 ACP vs. the NATO 9mm rounds in the early '80s. Every test concluded that the "stopping power" of the .45 cal. was double, even tripple that of the 9mm. Our government in it's infinite wisdom chose to give the contract for sidearms to a foreign company in the interests of "good relations", while screwing an American company. Not to mention the lucrative ammo contract, especially when you have to shoot twice as much. :shaking:Quoted just so it could be laughed at again. :D