I'm looking for any issues that plagued the first generation cummins 3/4 tons. I know about the troublesome getrags and the steering shafts but what else plagues these classic trucks?

Not much, other than the Getrag, and the people with automatics that can't read their owners manuals they are very solid trucks. Dodge quit building real trucks after the 1993 model year.

I'm not a real big fan of the two peice long side axle shaft or any of that electronic crap. I know the driveline is indestructable but are there any electrical gremlins?

Nothing major that I am aware of. You do get a few issues out of the blower motor switch and resistor and the power windows, lock and mirrors give some people some trouble but generally they are a reliable truck and will give good service when maintained.

I have a '93 250 with a banks power pack and I love it! The getrag is starting to give me problems--falls out of 4th when coasting--rakes going into third--is this the shifter fork? Also do you know of a manual replacement trans? Oh yeah, I just replaced the knuckle on the end of the steering column and put a rack-n-pinion boot over it and secured the boot with heavy zip ties(just a tip). Hopefully it will keep out the water and grime. I also had trouble with the pass. side power window.

From what I have heard, the Getrag is a crapshoot as to if you got a good or bad one. From what I understand some had too much bearing preload straight from Getrag, causing the bearings to shit in short order. My truck is a tick under 150k and the trans works fine and has never been out. The trick is to overfill it by a quart to keep the bearings up front lubed since the engine/trans are mounted with a pretty steep rake front to back. Any brand truck of that vintage is gonna have trouble with electric windows/locks/nick-nacks at some point or another, so they aren't any worse than the others. My driver window quite going up and down, but the motor worked fine. It ended up needing a new gear in the window motor transmission (cheap and easy). The only serious problem I've heard electric-wise is the headlight switch wiring. There are no relays in the factory set-up, so all of the load goes through the headlight switch. If you tow a trailer or add extra lights you can fry the switch or the harness in extreme cases. The fix is to install relays on the headlight and trailer circuits. Otherwise, good trucks. I've had mine for 5 years and put 70k miles on top of the original 80k with very little trouble. I put 8k miles on it in August going to Alaska and back on vacation, we even drove the haul road to Prudhoe Bay. Only trouble on the whole trip was one headlight went out.
Travis..
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z283/catrav/arcticcircle.jpg

I'm looking for any issues that plagued the first generation cummins 3/4 tons. I know about the troublesome getrags and the steering shafts but what else plagues these classic trucks?

A good place to ask this question - http://www.1stgen.org/
and/or - http://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/1st-generation-ram-forum-1989-1993/


MADDOG

I'm not a real big fan of the two peice long side axle shaft or any of that electronic crap. I know the driveline is indestructable but are there any electrical gremlins?

The axle is a Kingpin Dana 60 with locking hubs. There are no electrical disconnects of any sort--they are one of the strongest front axles offered in a light duty truck.

The Getrags do have a bad reputation, but there are a few tricks you can do to improve the reliability. Synthetic 5W-30 motor oil with the addition of an extra quart will help a ton...

I have a 92 and I couldn't ask for a better truck. It rides like a brick shit house, but at least there are no trac bars or link bushings to wear out. It is a 5 speed with 4.10 R&Ps, and it just turned over 200K. If I keep the RPM's at 1800, boost below 3psi, and egt below 600 on my 50 mile loop to work and back I will always see at least 24mpg and as high as 26mpg. :smokin:

I have a 90 that is by far the best rig i've ever owned... I've intercooled it, added a HX35 turbo and 80hp injectors, and modded the fuel pump with the 366 spring, ground fuel pin, and bumped timing and i'm still getting 22mpg. As far as the motor goes I have no complaints, the electrical accsessories are what seem to fail, my dash lights rarely work and the starter relay tends to short out but that's about it, i'd love to build a custom harness sometime with better switches to try and aliviate some of the electrical issues.

My buddy's gramps has an 89 that pulled horse trailer all it's life and is still kickin at over 400,000 miles, not to bad for a beat-up ranch truck....

The rear Dana 70's typically need rebuilt at the 160,000 mile mark. Some survive a ways past that but most I've seen are shot by then - the torque just kills 'em. One particular electrical bitch is the FSO (fuel shut off) solenoid. It has two spade terminals on it - one feed is 12v for starting (opening the valve) the other is a 9v feed for run (keeping the valve open). The bitch is the plastic spade slip-on connectors can get loose, causing the engine to just shut off. Often times the shaking of the engine during that shut off makes the terminals re-contact, so when you go to restart it fires right up....then dies again later on - totally random times. I removed the spade terminals and used fisheyes - problem solved. Dielectric grease and a very slight clamping of the slip-on terminal would likely also cure it.

Lesse...what else. errr um uh...well one of my particular peeves is the factory converter in the automatics, particularly the 518 (overdrive units, '91-93). The factory converters totally suck - if a percentage was put on them they're about 60% efficient, meaning they only transfer ~ 60% of the torque tot he tires. There are three aftermarket converters that rock - DTT, Gorends, and Suncoast. Just like a very good clutch, the converter on an auto is everything. All the power in the engine is moot without being able to get it to the ground - it just bleeds out bad.

Really no show-stoppers. The 1st gens are awesome trucks, and they have old-school charm...and with a few well-placed parts 350 hp is not hard to reach at all. I'm already at 308 hp and 630 tq and I have a lot of room to grow.

- M2

I think everything has been said for drivetrain, so the only thing that I could think of is the rust issue they have on the drip rail above the windshield. My '89 started bubbling there just before I sold it and bought my '95.

Other than that they are solid trucks.

I know the driveline is indestructable but are there any electrical gremlins?

Nothing worse than any other vehicle of that vintage IMHO.

Previous owners and/or mechanics who shouldn't be working on electrical wiring are the biggest detriment to any vehicle's electrical system. I used to work in an automotive electric shop for a while where that's all we dealt with. You wouldn't believe some of the stupid stuff that I saw there. I am convinced that there is absolutely nobody who has the ability to properly install trailer wiring since none of the trucks I've ever owned or worked on have been anywhere near correct.

The only other thing that I'd be worried about on an older Dodge is rust. Then again, I live in an area that is VERY brutal on vehicle's sheetmetal so that is the first thing that I'd be looking at. Anything else on a vehicle can be easily fixed but some sheetmetal is not available without finding a good donor vehicle to take it off of. 1st gen Dodges (as well as any vehicle from that era) is next to impossible to find on the roads around here anymore.

I live north of you in Canada and rust is something I know all too well. I'll be looking at a truck from the southern states and bringing it home. I'll undercoat it right away and protect the hopefully nice sheet metal. I appreciate the help guys, I'm a former ford truck owner, I have little experience with these diesel trucks other than the gas models.

- Two common rust spots are over the rear wheel arches and under the drip rail along the top of the windshield. Even the southern 1st gens tend to have rust in those areas. (I've noticed there's a lot of 1st gen CTDs in Missouri Texas and NY. They are not particularly popular in the southeast.)
-Plastic throttle linkage has been superseded with a metal part
-Thermostat has been superseded with a different Cummins P/N (it's somewhere on TDR)
-Injector pumps are a high dollar part
-Diaphragm vacuum pumps cost $150 apiece last I checked (there's two) I've seen a '93 with the vane type pump, so it may have been a '93 switch.
-There's a rebuild kit for the steering shaft joint
-Get rid of the wedge type locknuts on the rear spindles - they tear up spindle threads (use chevy style double locknuts instead)
-Cab firewalls crack - there's a factory fix kit for it. (can't really see the place where they crack unless you take front fenders off.)
-Odometers usually quit working 150-250K
-Power windows are junk
-Stock tie rod is a piece of crap (tie rod seperation/ pull out from defective shallow cut threads on tie rod itself. I've seen it happen twice so far. I had my tie rod custom made - .250 wall with lathe cut threads. I use chevy TRE's and lock nuts)
-Lifted front springs for CTD's are hard to find - 2 choices are custom built, or cobble something together with K30 springs.
-They ride like Conestoga wagons with stock springs
-Rear pinion bearings tend to go out because most people towed stupid loads with them
-Keep the Getrag filled (they all leak) and fill it 1 qt over (fill through shift tower or add an elbow to fill port)
-Rear ABS can be hard to troubleshoot (nobody seems to know how the fawk it works - Dodge included)

The old saying "It's a 500,000 mile engine in a 100,000 mile truck" is definitely true. Mine has somewhere between 350K and 400K and almost everything except the engine and injector pump has been rebuilt or replaced at least once. They are simple to work on, but CTD parts aren't cheap so try to get one in decent shape to start with.

The old saying "It's a 500,000 mile engine in a 100,000 mile truck" is definitely true. Mine has somewhere between 350K and 400K and almost everything except the engine and injector pump has been rebuilt or replaced at least once. They are simple to work on, but CTD parts aren't cheap so try to get one in decent shape to start with.

Two things jump out at me with this paragraph.

#1 - The "500,000 mile engine with a 100,000 mile truck" statement is pretty much true of all the light duty diesel truck offerings. The build quality of pickups has gotten better over the years but don't kid yourself into thinking that this is just a Dodge problem. Light duty trucks are designed to have a reasonable life span but none of them are really intended to be a 500,000 mile truck. I'm honestly surprised at how well diesel pickups seem to last given the abuse that most owners seem to give them. They are still a LIGHT DUTY truck after all.

#2 - CTD parts expensive?!? Where are you shopping? There is nothing that I have purchased that has been expensive for mine. If you go to the Dodge dealer for a Cummins part then yes, you can expect to be raped. The Cummins shop that I go to for service parts has books for the Dodge specific Cummins motors and has a lot of the common service parts on hand.

Yep, if you actually buy stuff from Cummins, I've found it's half the price or less than what Dodge wants, and uaually cheaper than aftermarket too.
Lifted springs aren't hard to find, Skyjacker does have a few kits, but, as a general rule, you can use gasser springs, you'll just get 2" less lift out of them.

Bumping this back to the top.


I am looking for a tow rig to haul my toyota and came across a '93 w250 4x4 5-speed with 127k on it for $2500. Good deal or keep looking? I am very unfamiliar with the early dodges and would like to hear from the experts. If not, flame away.

Unless the body is rusted beyond salvage, that's a good deal in my neck of the woods. the only way we touch one for that little money is if the body is trashed beyond repair.....I think any dodge guy will tell you to pull the trigger on that ASAP....barring any major current issues with it

If the body isn't a pile of rust and the transmission holds all the gears fine and doesn't make bad noises, grab it.

I am having REDICULOUS problems with the wiring in my 83 W150 and my 84 W350.

Bomber deal if it is in decent shape.

I paid $2100 for my 92. Body was in pretty decent shape, the interior of the bed was trashed. It was a work truck. Leaked oil from everywhere!

Put new valve cover gaskets on, resealed the timing gear cover, loctite'd the killer bolts and retained the killer dowl pin, resealed the vac pump, and am going to replace the fuel pump with the updated piston pump. It has been a great truck. 250K on the ticker as well.

These trucks have horrible fusible link issues. Dodges power distribution system on these sucked. But, some ingenuity and some blade fuse holders fixed that in an evening.

I'm not a real big fan of the two peice long side axle shaft or any of that electronic crap. I know the driveline is indestructable but are there any electrical gremlins?

The headlite circuit is overloaded from the factory on these trucks. Every single Dodge truck I have ever been into had a cooked headlite connector or switch. Relay the headlites, relay the a/c blower motor and switch. I seem to recall an updated headlite switch or wiring connector but I don't recall where... May have been Diesel Truck Resource... I know there is a couple excellent relay fixes in the stickies there, search user name Jim Lane.

The updated headlamp switch and connector is for a TSB that is related to the '94 and up trucks. You can add relays to the '93 and older trucks to take the load off the switch and it will usually brighten the headlamps a little, but there isn't that big of an issue with burnt headlamp switches on the D & W series trucks as with the BR series.

The updated headlamp switch and connector is for a TSB that is related to the '94 and up trucks. You can add relays to the '93 and older trucks to take the load off the switch and it will usually brighten the headlamps a little, but there isn't that big of an issue with burnt headlamp switches on the D & W series trucks as with the BR series.

I seem to recall a TSB for the 91-93 trucks as well. As a matter of fact I installed one in my 1981 Trailduster back in 1993 when I was working at a 5 star.

The 1st gen Cummins trucks were excellent all around trucks, each generation since has had heavier frames and drivetrains, The transmissions and axles, and most importantly brakes have come along with the 3rd gen trucks (However they still have a long way to go), but with the steps forward, there have been steps back, as well shittier wheel bearings, Emission controls, ABS etc... I would definately rock a 1st gen Cummins with a 48 RH hybrid trans or 6 speed swap.

I seem to recall a TSB for the 91-93 trucks as well. As a matter of fact I installed one in my 1981 Trailduster back in 1993 when I was working at a 5 star.

It's possible. I've only owned one of the '91-'93 trucks, though I have had over 2 dozen D & W series trucks overall. Only one had a headlamp switch issue and that was related to pinched wiring that I didn't notice when I repaired a truck I bought wrecked. Not much changed in the headlamp wiring or switches in the 21 years those trucks were built. I don't remember any repairs to them while I was at the dealership, though that was at the tail end of the D/W era. I do remember about 8 out of 10 of the RB trucks coming in for the headlamp switch and connector mod though as it was a huge ongoing ordeal.

if you plan on towing anything more than a small utility trailer, your headlamp switch in a first-gen truck is gonna get to hot. trailers with lots of running lights-or any running lights at all-can be too much for the headlamp switch. i was having some issues with burning terminals on theswitch; i relayed my headlights, and trailer running lights, and have been problem-free. Headlights are MUCH brighter as well.

For mainly that reason, I run LEDs on my trailers. Especially on the duallie models, the parking light circuit has 15 bulbs, not counting dash lights, or the headlights. I run Relays on the headlights, and LEDs in as many places as I can it helps a ton.

dont forget about the world famous killer dowel pin.

dont forget about the world famous killer dowel pin.

I may be wrong, but didn't the KDP problem start with the P-Pump engines 1994 and up? I thought the 1st gen timing housing was different, and did not ave this problem, but as I stated before I may be wrong.

First gens can have the KDP issue, although it is quite rare. What is common on the first gens is the Killer Bolts. The timing housing to block bolts did not have loctite on them, and would back out and fall into the gears. Every first gen I have taken apart is this way, mine included. Mine was the worst, as one bolt actually was rounded off from rubbing against the cam gear.

if you plan on towing anything more than a small utility trailer, your headlamp switch in a first-gen truck is gonna get to hot. trailers with lots of running lights-or any running lights at all-can be too much for the headlamp switch. i was having some issues with burning terminals on theswitch; i relayed my headlights, and trailer running lights, and have been problem-free. Headlights are MUCH brighter as well.

Relays on the trailer running lights are an excellent idea too!

Elwenil, if you have had two dozen D/W's and no headlite switch issues I am freakin amazed... I have had several as well and every one of them had melted connectors and wiring and was a fire hazard at worst. I do believe people were using that 2 second Gen TSB upgrade or part of it IIRC. I will poke around on DTR, 1stGen etc. to see if I can back that info up.

Honestly, I have had no headlamp switch issues other than the one I stated. I have had much more trouble from fusible links and the blower motor switches and related circuit on the '70s era trucks than anything.

Honestly, I have had no headlamp switch issues other than the one I stated. I have had much more trouble from fusible links and the blower motor switches and related circuit on the '70s era trucks than anything.

Don't forget the ammeters on the early trucks, I had 3 of them go bad, leading to a dead battery, as the alternator couldn't charge the battery

Excellent point. I had forgotten that as it's sort of automatic to bypass those if it hasn't already been done. Luckily most of my trucks were '80s models which do not have that issue.

Don't forget the ammeters on the early trucks, I had 3 of them go bad, leading to a dead battery, as the alternator couldn't charge the battery
Ok if I hijack here? Will a bad ammeter still allow power to the key switch and let the truck run, but not charge? My experience is when the ammeter goes bad the truck will not start with the key switch. I have a slight issue with my 74 not charging.

Yes, a bad ammeter can affect charging. It's simple to bypass it to test it, just connect the two leads to the ammeter together and tape them up to keep them from grounding on anything.