I have been considering a front bar hoop for my Cruiser to help in a roll. I am very sure that it would help if I went over on the side to help keep the hood from smashing in, but has anyone had any experience with how they hold up when you do an endo?

I rolled my Cruiser over backwards this weekend and TRASHED my front end. I smashed the hood into my $500 radiator and munched the coil and some other goodies. All said, it was not too bad once I got home, but I do not like the thought of having to go through this again.

I would like some ideas of some proven hoop designs. I weigh in at 4800# so it has to be more than an unsupported hoop in my opinion.

I am afraid an unsupported hoop would have driven even farther into the engine causing more damage.

What do you guys think?

Damage

Last

i would think a hoop w/ bars connected to the roll cage, either through the firewall or outside the fenders would help, and a support bar or an inverted V to the center of the hoop would help, but i'm no expert, that just seems logical

When we built my front hoop we used 1.25" .120 wall chro-moly tubing. We used a JD2 Model 4 with full hydro and the thing nearly stalled bending the chro-moly vs pushing right through the 1 3/4 DOM we used for the cage. Very stout stuff! The hoop was tig welded to my WARN winch plate a gusseted on each side. I ahve not tested her yet but hopefully it would at least save the radiator and grill.

Regards
MT

http://yellowtj.homestead.com/files/front_hoop.jpg


Here is the final installed piece
http://yellowtj.homestead.com/files/cage7wd.jpg

When I get to this it will be a stinger tied to a grill hoop. That would make it a 4 point. Thought about tieing back through the firewall to the main cage, more strength in that design also.

I would like to copy this design with a little variation

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid29/p51c126196cda1a6ff9cba6c71f2443f2/fd61f3d5.jpg

I am preparing to do one like Bigdude posted with the exception of a full grill hoop. Have the grill hoop and an additional front bar welded to the C-channel bumper at a forward angle. Then tie the 2 with 2 spreaders and add an additional bar going from the grill hoop to the roll cage through the firewall.

Here is another version

http://bigdogcustomfab.homestead.com/files/YJgrillguard.jpg

Mine is really a 6 points for the front "Cage", thru the firewall to the roll cage, to the frame at the front hoop and to the stinger off the front. Haven't "endoed" yet, but Have flopped it HARD. Dropped the drivers side tire in the hole I was trying to avoid (damn open front) and it came up and over and instead of going completely over backwards landed on driverside, facing 180 from where I was. And it hit HARD! That's the hardest I have ever been over.

Beside the scratch rattle can paint job, you wouldn't even know I flopped her. :D

Originally posted by MT
Here is another version

http://bigdogcustomfab.homestead.com/files/YJgrillguard.jpg

NICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Very good lines on that.

Nolen,

I never got a chance to test the front grill hoop on the cruiser before I sold it. I think the design is good, just make sure to have some supports going forward and back from the hoop to keep if from folding. Here is what it looked like:

Heres a larger pic from the the top:

Nolen -

I had a violent triple roll in September, including a spin on the nose. The hood was crushed down to the Rad. I did not have a grill guard - I am building one now.

What saved me is that my Rad is mounted in a hoop (radiator roll bar) That goes up from the frame on both sides and is a tad taller than the bib. I have a bigger rad (its a 4 core HD built using FJ-55 tanks)

I can shoot a pic when I get home tonight.

I would do both.

Sorry to hear you messed your hooptie up - I sport a red bib, WS frame & hood on my khaki green Cruiser! The fenders are steel with a patina of rust (gotta let the millscale rust so I can sandblast them)


Jim

How valuable do you all consider stingers to be? How effective have you found them? I am thinking of adding one to prevent front endos. What angles are everyone using for the stingers?

Originally posted by TLCObsession
Nolen -

I had a violent triple roll in September, including a spin on the nose. The hood was crushed down to the Rad. I did not have a grill guard - I am building one now.

What saved me is that my Rad is mounted in a hoop (radiator roll bar) That goes up from the frame on both sides and is a tad taller than the bib. I have a bigger rad (its a 4 core HD built using FJ-55 tanks)

I can shoot a pic when I get home tonight.

I would do both.

Sorry to hear you messed your hooptie up - I sport a red bib, WS frame & hood on my khaki green Cruiser! The fenders are steel with a patina of rust (gotta let the millscale rust so I can sandblast them)


Jim

I agree - do a internal "motor/rad hoop" and the external one..

if you want simple clean lines like that yellow TJ above use the internal and external method and tie them together around under the fender or through grill - VIA hole saw..I would use 1/34 .188 wall..


if you don't care about multiple tubes go with one of the other designs above

Its all external and I tried to have the lines follow the Jeep so as to retain the look of a "Jeep".

http://www.sierrarockcrawlers.com/community/rocktoy/Rubicon8171.JPG

Bigger is always better,
Mine is sami tested and doubles as the ARB tank.
http://www.sierrarockcrawlers.com/community/snowwheelr/PICT0124.JPG

nuther

Nolen... did that bend the frame? break knuckles? where were you?

Nah, all is fine other than sheet metal and the top of my $$$ aluminum radiator.

that last picture just looked fucking rough...

http://yellowtj.homestead.com/files/cage7wd.jpg


:rolleyes:


You know my ideas Nolen,
But I would make it a bit stronger than mine...
I still think mine would have helped your radiator...

Nolen that looks like it hurt, well good luck getting it strait:eek:

Avalanche puts stingers on almost everything they build, but yeah you have to brace it. This one is clean looking:
http://www.avalancheengr.com/buggies/imga0068.jpg

And i REALLY like this rear stinger that doubles as a spare tire carrier:
http://www.avalancheengr.com/buggies/Imgd0012.jpg

I would consider something like that. A rear stinger helps in a backwards roll, and a front one helps in a forward roll. Nolen, you needed a rear stinger to keep you from landing on the front end. Of course, some of the other designs shown above would have helped protect your goodies anyways. Just depends on how you want to do it, and what looks the best to you.

http://www.avalancheengr.com/buggies/Imgd0012.jpg

The way this is built it would do nothing to keep you from going over backwards in the situation that Nolen was in.
Think about it. by the time you are going up something that is steep enough to roll you backward by the time that tire carrier hit the ground your nose would be over the roof... And :nuke:


Although it is a very nice tire carrier ;)

I know it looks ugly as shit, but after rolling & crushing my rad & ps pump, this will do nicely. Yah, it looks like a jeep and we'll probably redo it, but for now it works. Note that the side bars go thru the cowling where the door hinges used to be, and tie into the A pillar of the front hoop.... Just a thought... Winch needs a bar, but that'll get done soon.

Thanks to John & Jimmy at Ruff Play.

I like that rear stinger/ tire carrier.

How is it kept upright and and hopefully rattle free? I am trying to wrap my nugget around it but it's just not happening.

Originally posted by Jason M
http://www.avalancheengr.com/buggies/Imgd0012.jpg

The way this is built it would do nothing to keep you from going over backwards in the situation that Nolen was in.
Think about it. by the time you are going up something that is steep enough to roll you backward by the time that tire carrier hit the ground your nose would be over the roof... And :nuke:


Although it is a very nice tire carrier ;)

I have to disagree. I have been in that situation a few times with ex-cruiser. The spare tire carrier alone save me from going over. I didn't lift fast, but didn't go up slow either. Here are some pics for reference.

Here is a pic of the one we did on my Toy, I know it is hard to see but i dont have many pics of my own rig.

http://www.ramseyoffroad.com/HR_44.jpg

found one from the front.

http://www.nagca.com/Trail%20Photos/extreme802/e4x4802Xsm.jpg

In this pic the front end lifted, pivoted on the rear spare, and came back down. Notice while pivioting I was on 1 rear tire and the spare.

And here is what it looks like from the rear, so I believe a rear stinger like the one pictured above would have helped also.

The way this is built it would do nothing to keep you from going over backwards in the situation that Nolen was in.

Stopping you from going over is not the point of a stinger. The point is to redirect the vehicle to the side, thus decreasing the momentum of the roll.

I would probably do a stinger and have it attach through the grill to a bar over the radiator. Just not make the stinger go out 5' in front like avalanches, just pointed forward a little and about the height of you hood.
I should have built mine higher then it is but o well, screw up the 1F and then I'll have to go to a v-8:D

Joseph A.

here's kind of what I'm talking about...being the paintbrush artist that I am:rolleyes:

yeah but that does nothing to protect the hood/grill in a roll over.

Here is what I made for mine. The purpose behind this, is to save the hood area/radiator if upside down(front hoop is higher than hood)AND to act as a "runout" bar when decending a steep pitch. There are flanges just under and behind the fenders. This allows the front to be unbolted if needed. The tubing flows into shock mounts welded to the frame.

high5, damn jeep bastards always making things tough:flipoff2: The front stinger would be higher then shown in my crappy pic, about the height of the hood. kinda like DM's. The other bar would be under the hood to help protect the radiator and engine better, the $$$ stuff and stuff that can end your trip.
The only wat I can really see for Nolen to protect his hood would be to sacrafice the clean look he has now that is bad ass and tube the front end. I would have the front stinger only slant slightly forward so the tip is still fairly close to the hood to do more protection that way.
Just my enginering degree going to work:rolleyes:

Joseph A.

Originally posted by elf_cruiser

http://www.avalancheengr.com/buggies/Imgd0012.jpg


ok...I've stared at this one for a while now and I'm still stumped...what's holding it up? I can only see 2 places where the tire carrier is attached...and no real obvious place for a 3rd...

I decided to put one on my rig...Also acts as the primary support for the coilieo's.

It's not as tall as it looks in the pic...It only goes over the hood about 5-6"...Funny what camera angles will do.

Wasn't sure about doing it either, but then it just sorta happend. Keeps life interesting, and if it can save the clip in the long run, why not?

--D

Originally posted by Jason M
http://www.avalancheengr.com/buggies/Imgd0012.jpg

The way this is built it would do nothing to keep you from going over backwards in the situation that Nolen was in.
Think about it. by the time you are going up something that is steep enough to roll you backward by the time that tire carrier hit the ground your nose would be over the roof... And :nuke:


Although it is a very nice tire carrier ;)

I was going up a waterfall and went over backwards and the spare tire saved me also...

BTW all those pics are of my buddy Greg's Heep... it's starting to look pretty cool, but I still haven't figured out the purpose of the rear stinger or how it works. It looks good though... must be an avalanche thing :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Originally posted by Krylon..


I was going up a waterfall and went over backwards and the spare tire saved me also...


Maybe that spotter should have been helping out rather than striking that :rainbow: pose for the camera:D :D :D

Sorry, I couldn't resist that one:D

Originally posted by 333J
ok...I've stared at this one for a while now and I'm still stumped...what's holding it up? I can only see 2 places where the tire carrier is attached...and no real obvious place for a 3rd...

It's that special, supah-dupah Avalanche-Anti-Grav-Spare-system. It's an optional accoutrement, but it's gar-ron-teed to lift ya' ass ova the rocks.
:flipoff2: BWHAHAHA

7/8" suckerod (exotic round stock )

rear also, every bend has to be in a fabbed die and a rose budd

dang peej, think maybe next time you're that close to a rock you might wanna think twice about grabbing the cage.....that's a finger eater, maybe some of that 7/8 sucker rod will make a good set of handles for the cage? :D

the problem with sucker rod, is that it snaps, doesn't bend for shit without a torch. i just don't think that would have made a differance on nolens rig. it's just nut strong enough

NOT STRONG ENOUGH!! it will break before it bends, it will flex about an inch if you hit hard, but it will go back to it's original form

i ran a piece of it around the fenders and tapped into the roll bar by the cab. it's a failry long piece, and when i whack a rock it will flex a little (if you hit it hard enough), but then go back to where it was again without any type of bend. it taken ALOT of beating, and it looks the same. after playing around with this stuff, i would never look to tubeing for such a thing.

Originally posted by DM



Maybe that spotter should have been helping out rather than striking that :rainbow: pose for the camera:D

Sorry, I couldn't resist that one:D

LOL, good point! :) But he came upi after the backward tilt. I was klinchen my cheeks hopin it didn't go over while a few phtos were taken. Then I fired the rig back up and backed out of it.

Originally posted by 333J


http://www.avalancheengr.com/buggies/Imgd0012.jpg
ok...I've stared at this one for a while now and I'm still stumped...what's holding it up? I can only see 2 places where the tire carrier is attached...and no real obvious place for a 3rd...

Gotta feelin' that Avalanche's gravity is -9.80m/s2 like everyone else's :flipoff2: There's a disconnect on the backside of the wheel mount that ties into a crossbar on the cage that you can't see in that pic.

BTW: the functionality of the rear stinger isn't to prevent a backwards roll....As stated in multiple replies above, spare tire carriers/racks probably do as well if not better in that situation.

The functionality is simply to have a rear-mounted spare tire carrier with improved departure characteristics. Rocks slide off the stinger rather than grabbing your tire...

Overall, I think it's a cool design. I like the swing down. It could be a bitch in tight spots, but prolly the exception rather than the rule...

Originally posted by wrookie


Gotta feelin' that Avalanche's gravity is -9.80m/s2 like everyone else's :flipoff2: There's a disconnect on the backside of the wheel mount that ties into a crossbar on the cage that you can't see in that pic.

BTW: the functionality of the rear stinger isn't to prevent a backwards roll....As stated in multiple replies above, spare tire carriers/racks probably do as well if not better in that situation.

The functionality is simply to have a rear-mounted spare tire carrier with improved departure characteristics. Rocks slide off the stinger rather than grabbing your tire...

Overall, I think it's a cool design. I like the swing down. It could be a bitch in tight spots, but prolly the exception rather than the rule...

I had thought of that, but connecting the spare tire carrier to the cage would eliminate the possibility of puting the top back on...that may be ok someplaces, but not really an option in the NW...

Originally posted by wrookie


Gotta feelin' that Avalanche's gravity is -9.80m/s2 like everyone else's :flipoff2: There's a disconnect on the backside of the wheel mount that ties into a crossbar on the cage that you can't see in that pic.

BTW: the functionality of the rear stinger isn't to prevent a backwards roll....As stated in multiple replies above, spare tire carriers/racks probably do as well if not better in that situation.

The functionality is simply to have a rear-mounted spare tire carrier with improved departure characteristics. Rocks slide off the stinger rather than grabbing your tire...

Overall, I think it's a cool design. I like the swing down. It could be a bitch in tight spots, but prolly the exception rather than the rule...

that tyre would make a great camp table when folded down too!!

wrookie-

what are you thinkin dood??

gravity is 9.81m/s2

ROFL

DAMN, that makes all the difference when you jump off a bridge!! :flipoff2:

Originally posted by slowJEEP
wrookie-

what are you thinkin dood??

gravity is 9.81m/s2

You mean -9.81m/s2. :P

CJ