Hey guys, this is already posted in the General board, but I have had a lack of response so I figured I would ask the guys who would know best. I have already read through over 11 pages of 302 posts, but have not been able to find many 351 posts or posts that compare the 302 vs. 351. Is there no real replacement for displacement???

I am planning on a Ford transplant since I already have the NP435 in my Jeep and when I picked up the tranny I also grabbed the bellhounsing and slave and master cylinder for the clutch. So, my question is what is the best engine option???

I have not been able to find a 89-93 mustang 5.0 HO, but have been able to find Crown Vic's, Lincoln Mark's, and Mercury Marquis. What are good years for these cars, 89-93?

I have only found one Explorer t was a 96 and am sure I can find more pick up 5.0's. Which Explorer and P/U 5.0's do I want?

I came across a van 351 and am sure I can find more of these too. Again, what are good years?

There are no sand dunes here in Western NY, but there is a little mud and little rockcrawling, this Jeep is not a daily driver. I want decent hp and good torque, but I need fuel injection and want the most reliable engine.

I realize the 351 is a few inches wider and may cause some clearance issues with exhaust and I am not sure about the front vs. rear sump pump on the 351 and which engine has it and which doesn't.

When do the engines go from TBI to Port Injection?

Thanks for your time and assistance,
Jason

You really want a Mustang 5.0 HO IMO they have a very simple self contained harness and can be found complete for well under a grand... There are about 8 wires that you have to connect other than that they are self contained... and there are a number of write ups as to what the wires do and there color and they are pretty iimple to wire up. NOw getting a 302 from another vehicle you are loosing a lot of horse power and torque. The 302's in Vic's have like 14lbs injectors and some of the most rescrictive intakes... the 351 is a GREAT motor but then again in order to get a MAF 351 you have to get a lightning. So the best way to get a MAF 351 is put a 351 under the 5.0 HO harness... which can be done

TBI on a Ford is a rare item, you can find it around 84-85 cars. The trucks got 302 SMPI as an option in 86, standard in 87.

As far as what is better, I like the 351w better. Larger valves, larger main bearings, ect. However they are harder to find in mass air. I am not sure but I think they started mass air later then the 302.

Don't forget that the Speed density engines work just as good, but this is only if you are talking stock form. The only true advantage of the mass air is that if you change anything in/out side the motor to make it breath better, it will adjust for it. The speed density will also adjust, since it has a MAP, just not to peak preformance.

I say this, it seams like you want the 351w, go for it. Just get the one you can afford, and runs good. And if you plan on leaving it stock or mild, there is nothing wrong with speed density.

Originally posted by dangerranger33
You really want a Mustang 5.0 HO IMO they have a very simple self contained harness and can be found complete for well under a grand... There are about 8 wires that you have to connect other than that they are self contained... and there are a number of write ups as to what the wires do and there color and they are pretty iimple to wire up. NOw getting a 302 from another vehicle you are loosing a lot of horse power and torque. The 302's in Vic's have like 14lbs injectors and some of the most rescrictive intakes... the 351 is a GREAT motor but then again in order to get a MAF 351 you have to get a lightning. So the best way to get a MAF 351 is put a 351 under the 5.0 HO harness... which can be done

I was thinking about this myself wouldn't you need to change the cam to get the 302 firing order?

Didn't the later 351w in the trucks (95-97) has mass air? I don't know, but if the 460 got MA why not the 351.

Also you can get a HO out or the Cougers and Vics.

The SD truck harness aslo only has 5-8 wires that need to get hooked up.

OK, so it is probably best to get the truck 351. Now, what years should I be looking at?

I came across a whole 86 Ford van with a 351 that has the auto tranny for $350. The body is shot and he says it only has 60,000 on the engine and that it is a great runner (of course:rolleyes:). It runs, but has a hole in the oil pan that he filled with body filler to stop the leak. I don't think I am jumping on this because it just doesn't sound right and if any stuff got into the oil it could have been run through the engine. Should I stay away from this one?

OK, back to my main question:
What years are MAF and what years are speed density?
Is there a difference between van and truck engines?

What's the difference betweeen hp and torque numbers between the 5.0 HO and the 351W?

I don't have any concrete answers for you, but here are some comments/considerations:

-lightnings were not mass air, but you'll never find one anyway

-emsoffroad is right, speed density actually works really well and runs like a clock, so long as you don't plan on extensive engine mods. Mass air is certainly better, and if you're gonna swap you could try for it, all I'm saying is if you come across a screaming deal on a SD motor, go for it.

-the truck 351s first got MAF around '94 or '95. '96 will be OBD-II and at the very least you'll want a different ECM than what came stock in a '96 if you go that route. Don't bother trying to retrofit OBD-II

-whatever you do you'll need some way to produce a VSS signal for the ECM. Do a search on this board, there was a really cool thread awhile back where a guy reported the problems he had with no VSS (stalling when stopped is one), and he had retrofitted a VSS to a D20 'case, it was pretty much plug and play. Mustang ECMs may not require a VSS?

-there is not a difference between van and truck engines, unless the oil pans are different (and I don't think they are?)

Sorry not more help

The main thing is 351, the intake sits about 4-5 inchs higher then the 302's, so if you want a hood bubble go for the 351

IMO i like 302's better, better parts at cheaper prices

Originally posted by D60
-there is not a difference between van and truck engines, unless the oil pans are different (and I don't think they are?)


The wiring harnesses are different, but that's not a big deal since you'll likely be rewiring a lot of it on your own.

Serp van accessories will likely be better than a similar p/u -- the vans (all??) had Sag pumps, and the chassis vans had the large case 100A alts.

The pans and intakes are the same TTBOMK.

That 86 Ford van won't be EFI. The 351 was carbed until 88. The 302 got EFI in 85 for trucks and vans.

there was a really cool thread awhile back where a guy reported the problems he had with no VSS (stalling when stopped is one), and he had retrofitted a VSS to a D20 'case, it was pretty much plug and play. Mustang ECMs may not require a VSS?

That was me... :)
The VSS made the truck a lot more friendly, especially when compression braking in to a stop, like you said. My engine is a Mustang HO ('90), and while the VSS isn't required for it to run (doesn't ever turn the Check Engine light on), it will throw the VSS code. Having the VSS is a big plus, but you could do it later on. The 'stang VSS bolts up to the EB D20 and probably other Ford t-cases as well.

The main thing is 351, the intake sits about 4-5 inchs higher then the 302's, so if you want a hood bubble go for the 351

I think the truck 302 also has a higher-rise intake than the 'stang motor. Something about longer intake runners for more torque...? The intakes are definitely different, and I'm pretty sure none of the truck motors were HO. More torque, less HP, your call.

Chris (another vote for the 5.0)

Alright, thanks for all of your help.
I am going to begin searching for a 5.0 HO, either from a stang or from a Mark VII.

I am basing this on: cost, availability, ease of installation, and it will be about 50-100 lbs lighter.

Thanks
Jason

here`s what i`m doing: the 69` 351w blocks are best(stronger thicker castings with higher nickel content),gt40 intake,maf wiring and sensors from a 92` 5.0 mustang,75mm throttle body,80mm maf meter,42lb.injectors,full roller conversion kit from crane cams,408 eagle forged stroker kit,canfield 3stage ported heads, it should make around 500-550 HP.it will be done by new years! i have the 5.0 setup on my old 302 block with out a vss. i had the stalling when coming to a stop and it was because the idle was not properly set.(you have to reset the computer).it now runs like a raped ape without the vss(which i think is a waste of money)it was a real easy install in my 66` bronco.
the lightning motor is a non roller motor.(which is an overpriced boat anchor with a good intake)the 94`-to 96` standard truck 351w`s are a roller block.the 351w weighs only 50lbs. more than a 302.the only difference on the efi swap to a 351w and a 302 is you will need at least 24lb.injectors ,a tfi dist.for a 351 and the upper and lower intake .(usually a lightning lower same as the cobra "R" with a cobra,explorer or gt40 upper,trickflow and others make a complete setup also).everything else will bolt on.

I have a very nicly built 351w now. I have found the lighting upper and lower. All I need to do is up grade the injectors, and change the cam, to one with the 302 firing order? Or are the HO 302 not a SMPI there for I would not need to change the cam?

No, you want to keep the 351W firing order.

The stock EFI will *sometimes* do quite nicely with a bit of head cleaning, intake, and a slightly hotter cam.... but I definitely wouldn't go swapping injectors and expect it to run.

You ought to go ahead and pony up for the lightning mass air kit with 24# injectors. It's the only way you'll realize the full potential of the motor, IMHO.