Looking to hear what you all have done for lift on your Dodge trucks/ Ramchargers.
I have read a few things done, just not how it wound up working over all when said and done.

What springs have been used, how stable was it when done,(body role) How was the flex, how much gear could you carry without making it sit real low in the back, etc.

All and any input would be helpful. Pictures would be great also..

Later....

working on it...............................:D

I have some 6" mystery springs from a GM in front, with longer/beefier custom shackles and bigger greaseable bolts (9/16 front and 1/2 in shackle); rear is Tuff-Country EZ-Rides on 5/8" bolts, and the SUX-8000 shocks that they wanted to sell me with the rear springs. Nothing too special. I'll probably do a shackle flip, relocate the lower shock mounts, flip the u-bolts and lose the factory blocks when the 70 goes in. Those shocks in rear on the factory mounts definitely limit droop, and this needs help in a big way. Also the factory parking brake cables limit droop on the driver's side. My plan is to go to big discs on the 70 before install and move the ebrake to a disc on the back of the 205 (doubler).

Because I've also done a crossover power steering conversion (which needed boxing the frame and welding in bolt sleeves, which meant the radiator needed to be out, and it also helped that the front of the engine was apart due to a new cam that went in since I twisted off an exhaust manifold stud in a cylinder head because I was re-doing the exhaust) and the drag link clearance vs. the crossmember needed to be checked/adjusted at full compression and this was easier with the dead factory springs, I can't really say yet since the new '302 heads I got (because the originals had 70 cc combustion chambers) have been ported but not reassembled yet.... Ask me again in a week or so. ;)

I know that this might be a little off topic, but how rough should a stock 77 ride, mine seems like the axles are bolted to the frame, im thinking that my springs are wasted, because at there current point the bump stops are only .5 inches away from the spring on driver side and .75 inches on passanger, any idea what they should be stock, half ton -360 -727 is the driveline??

Sounds exactly like my '77 M880 before I re-sprung it.

did you swap to the chevy fronts and tuff country rears like stated above or are you talking about a diffrent truck?? if a diffrent truck, what did you use, any desent riding springs i should go huntin for??

Yep, same truck. The only differences between the GM and Dodge springs is that the GM springs have the rear eye on top of the spring, and the Dodge springs have it on the bottom; and the eye diameter is bigger on the GM springs. Length, width, and eye-to-centerpin distances are all about the same. These front packs seem to be pretty soft and I think I'll like 'em.

ya got no idea who made umm:confused: whats the leaf count? other info on umm

5-leaf pack, red polyurethane bushings with the big thick ends like Ranchos. Used, cheap. ;) I tried to ID them from others I'd seen and the mfgr's web sites and didn't come up with anything conclusive.

Really, if I were to go out and buy 4 new springs, I might take the advice that Patman posted here a while back to get a Skyjacker 8" kit and pull the bottom leaves out of the packs - this gives a very soft spring, about 6" lift, and extra droop. However, it may suffer from extra axle wrap, which could shorten life. I might also just buy a package from Tuff-Country or Skyjacker and run 'em as-is, since I won't be running this thing in comps. I just ended up with these front springs in a deal that I couldn't pass up, and got the rears the height to match. One thing I do like about the Tuff-Country EZ-Ride rears is that the overloads are basically flat, and so won't hurt flex in uptravel. Rate seems comparable to the stock springs. Obviously I can't say how this affects carrying loads yet.

Thats exactly how my front springs were wen i first got my W200. .5'' from the bump stops.

I solved it very, very cheaply by finding an old rear spring set, discarding all but the top leaves of the front springs, and inserting as many rear leaves as i could get in. I think 4, but it's dark and rainy here, so if you want me to check, i'll have a peek later.

Before you put them in, you'll have to measure the 2nd and 3rd leaves, because those have to be cut a little. I also put each leaf under a hydraulic press, to give them a bit more curve. If you go that route, be extremely careful, because hydrauc presses are quite strong, and because low flying leafsprings are absolutely lethal on impact.

rdv check for me would ya, did it level your ride out?? also what year rears out of how heavy a truck?? also would stepping up a level, ie 3/4 tons leafs in the hybrid front compared to 1/2 up front help me out with a heavy bumper/winch combo, another little off topic question, how many many of you have done the 7013 posi (welded) rear on your 9.25??

when you put the rear springs in the front, how much did it lift the truck? I was looking at mine, and it looked like it woudl lift it about 4".. right?

My memory still works. 4 rear leafs to be put under the front top leaf. 4 leafs is the maximum you can get in there, because the two studs next to the diff pumpkin are too short. After my hydraulic press experience, the smallest leaf has an unsprung hight (when put upside down on the floor) of some 5.5-6.5 inches.

My 77 W200 (ex military M8**) now sits about level. Before it was quite nose heavy. With some trimming of the fenders I use 36'' tires. I guess i lifted it some 4 inches, maybe a bit more.

When the nose gets airborne, the stock shocks will act as downtravelbumpstops (sp?), so i put Rancho 5000 series shocks under it. The old shocks were shot anyway. I still have to look the exact partnumber up for ya.

With the slight lift and those tires a steering damper is neccesary too, and power steering will come in handy. Mudding is real hard work when you're finding your way through 1' or more of clay and sand at walking pace. Thank heavens for that 300# and 6'10'' body :D

well i'll just throw out the combo i'm gonna run since i'm bored. i plan on skyjacker 5 leaf, 5" lift fronts with the shackle mount relocated higher and 1/2" father forward so i can use a longer shackle and it will be laid back farther for more droop, less stuff. the rear will be 94- present 1/2 ton springs with front type mount for the shackle. longer shackles laid back for the more droop less stuff combo, no blocks, and full length add a leaf. i like the less upward travel as it climbs very well(less hopping) and is more stable, especially on sidehills. 9012 shocks of course cause there very tough and i can adjust them firm for the highway. i'll post pics as i go if anyone interested. :D

Originally posted by FULLSIZE
i'll post pics as i go if anyone interested. :D

Please! I like to know what people are doing, but even more why they're doing it. Thanks! :)

i'll keep ya up to date as i go.;)

rdv, got a couple of questions for you, first: when you built your new spring packs, you got rid of all the orginal leafs in the front packs execpt for the very top one with the eyes in it then used 3 rear springs from a half ton truck to bring up the arch? second, when you put the new packs back in, did you lower the bumpstop? i would thinkg that lowering it the same number of inches you have in lift would be rather silly since then you would be back at the .5 inches from the bumpstop deal again, right? also did you have to go with longer shocks when you built the new packs?

MJS, yes, i got rid of all the original front leafs, except the top one (with the eyes). Then i added 4 rear leafs. 4 will fit, because the rear leafs are thinner at the center than original front leafs (which are parabolic btw)

You will have to trim the second (the first one to go under the top front leaf) rear leaf a little, else it will be longer than the top front leaf.

And yes, i lowered the bumpstops, about half the amount i lifted the pickup. Some 2 inches, maybe a bit more. I looked where the (new) shock was in fully compressed state, and adjusted the bumpstops accordingly. These shocks are longer than stock. I haven't looked up the exact part number yet, sorry. I'll have a peek this weekend.

In this pic (http://212.187.36.190/img/dodge/318/hesdin-0001b.jpg) you can see the results. Now it sits one, maybe two inches higher than the pic, because this time i also re-arched the original front top leaf (with the eyes). When this pic was taken i had only re-arched the 4 rear leafs that are now in/under it.

Another way of lifting it about the same amount is by just adding 2 or 3 rear leafs to the original leafs, which is what a friend of mine did. He even has a Homepage, but unfortunately for you is it in Dutch, so probably not too helpful.

rdv, i could see doing all this work where your from, springs are probably hard to get, but mjs408 you can get good lift springs for cheap. re-arched springs never stay re-arched for long. just my .02 ;)

aight fullsize, ill agree with you, but what in all your dodge fullsize knowledge would you recommend? i have been thinking about getting some of the stuff from ramchargercentral for the rear, ie shackel flip to eliminate my blocks in the rear, i have been told BDS spring ain to bad, and no i aint trying to be a smart ass i can tell by reading your posts that you know your shit. ohh and for a pic of my truckclick here (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30611&perpage=25&pagenumber=2) in all its glory or lack there of its the REAL ugly one about 3/4 down the page, the poser pic with chrome light bar, and shitty step tubes, both of which are gone now, building a front and rear bumper and if any of yall wanna give me a winch, and some 35, i would be in business

if i could afford it, i would go with the BDS front springs. around $300pr. with bushings. i'm gonna use skyjackers cause i'm gettin them for free. tuf country makes a soft spring (345 # sq in) for around $200 with bushings, i just dont think they'll last as long due to the fact they have less springs. that means more fatigue per leaf and they'll probably flatten out sooner. whatever you use, dont let the spring go into negative arch (bumpstops). in the rear i would use the later model (94 and later) 1/2 ton springs (62" long) with a 2" add a leaf that way you get 2" of lift and a spring that will flex and still carry weight. shackle rev is necessary to get rid of the block. at that point bell tech makes a lowering shackle for the 2wd GM's that raises a 4wd with a shackle flip. that will give you 2 more inches (total of 4"). i'm not a big fan of going under the frame with the springs as it makes it more unstable on sidehills and hard cornering (in dirt even). these are just my opinions, but i've been through alot of spring combo's on my previous projects and these are the conclusions i've come up with driving trails like the con and fordyce and wheelin around our local river bottom spot with rocks, mud, hillclimbs, snow, etc. :D

Lavender Bros quoted me $220 for a pair of BDS springs. And from what I can see, the ramcharger central brackets are just bent 2" bar stock. I honestly dont think they look very strong, and those front 4" drop mounts looks just :eek: scarry. Not something i will put on my truck. I also have heard of those bell tech drop shackles breaking when used in 4 wheeling because they were never designed for the stress.

Here are 2 ideas i have, and i want to get some feedback on them
1) take 4 front dodge spring mounts and mount them under the frame in the rear, but have it so the middle of the spring is on the corner of the C of the frame, so they are moved inboard about 4" total.

2) Use dodge rear springs, in full length, and mount them up front. The 2 things that i worry about is that the shackle will be longer, and may hit the frame/body mount, and 2) it will tip down the axle and mess with the caster/camber. (the actual combo i want to use is a 7 leaf pack consisting of 3 dodge duster leafs, then a stock dodge rear leaf, followed by 3 random Jeep YJ leafs from old spring packs i have lying around)

3) if i want a longer shackle, use a jeep cherokee shackle, either a tera flex 1.5" budget lift shackle, or a con-fer shackle. They seem to be much stronger, and built for the abuse of off roading.


SO what do ya think?

I just had another thought, what i were to use 2x(4" maybe) .120 wall box tubing, and bolted it to the bottom of the radiator x-member to lower the shackles 2", and it seems it would be much stronger than the ramcharger central kit. then use some .5" id tubing, cut to side to slip in the inside, and tack welded in place to keep the bolts from crushing the tubing. Then weld the ends up. My consern there is that A) my front bumper mounts to the front spring bolts, and B) it would lift me higher than the 5" i want.

Some parts to compare for reference:

Ramcharger Central Rear shackle hanger
http://ramchargercentral.com/cart/shop_image/product/3bd81ca9cc9a01c88ff548dfe587fcbc.jpg

Ramcharger Central Front Spring Mount
http://ramchargercentral.com/cart/shop_image/product/15219b371898296c608c54d9fbaa0f08.jpg

Ramcharger Central 2" lift shackles
http://ramchargercentral.com/cart/shop_image/product/a953eb1b99a67d31292e5bcc5470648b.jpg

Ramcharger Central 2" front lift shackles
http://ramchargercentral.com/cart/shop_image/product/a4f93a62d8bfd214b153a5cc1d8725a8.jpg

Shaggys Offroad (www.offroadexchange.com) 1/4" lift shackes
http://offroadexchange.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000002/shkl_3.jpg

tera flex XJ budget 1.5" lift kit (I am only intrested in those shackles)
http://www.teraflx.com/cf/cat/images/97.jpg

BDS suspension 5" lift kit
http://www.BDS-suspension.com/graphics/5olddodge.jpg

i agree with you hick, the front spring hanger deal is kinda scary, the shackel flip in back could be made to be stronger boy boxing the top and bottom right? i wouldnt use any of that front end shit from then thats for sure, i might as well put blocks under my front springs, it would be just about as stupid..........

i like the tera flex shackles much better than the bell tech one for sure. i plan to build my own shackles like that out of .250 wall stuff and box it for more strength. :D

yeah, I wanna see those shackles fullsize. My other thought is to take the coils out of the rear of my 4 runner (factory recall.. hopefully i can keep the ones that are "too soft," and use them up front on the power wagon, but move the axle forward for about 75° approach angle, with 35", or about 85° with 38.5" sx's, or 95° with 42".

ah ya, 42's. eventually i'll be sitting on 44" boggers with only the 4" lift :D i want a truck to do some serious crawlin like my old heep, but carry everything including the kitchen sink. i also want it to be able to blast the dunes at sand mountain/pismo, get through some serious bogs and be able to drive it to work if i have to.;)

i have been using that silly feature on here called SEARCH, looking for stuff on coil suspentionand other general suspention shit, and i ran across this thread that was called suspention god, is it worth my time, cuz the damn thing is HUGE

no. its basically a pissing contest that no one agrees with anything the other says.:rolleyes: there was a good thread in gen. 4x4 that had pics of a 4 link with both top and bottom links wishboned in opposite directions. he claims the wheelbase does not change as it articulates. thats the one i would build.:D

do you rememeber the name of who started it, i searched for it and couldnt find anything.....

i cant remember who put up the pics. it was a tin bender i think, try to pm one of the tin benders like mustard dog and see if he can help you out. it looked like it would work awesome. all 4 links were the same length, ran at the same angle down to the axle and the top links run from the center, above the rear driveshaft, to the outside of axle tube on 6" tall mounts. then the lower links ran from the frame rails down to the axle housing next to the center section. very good design ;)

i think this might be the first time a thread went to 2 pages here.:eek:

are you talking about a link setup that basically looks like 2 top links off of a 3 link? so it is two V's, but in oppisite directions? I know that suspension was orignally designed by Sam over at the sierrarockcrawlers. BUt dont know if that is the one you are refering to.

Garrett

just like it, but i think it was desert toy that posted up pics of his.:cool2:

Fullsize, you're right about nice add-ons for these trucks being hard to find over here, and if they can be found, they are way overpriced. I'm so fed up with this, that i'm seriously considering starting up my own import and parts business, so i can afford shipping containers back and forth. Leaf springs as handluggage is a no fun prospect ;)

About 4-link suspensions, when i do a web search i find pics and even a few drawings, but nowhere WHY a 4-link is dimensioned like it is, iow, are there general guidelines and directions for building such a setup, and is it even neccesary for a truck that's a 95% mudbogger ? 4 linking is mostly done for articulation, right ?

yes to a point. 4 link allows alot of travel if set-up right, and positively locates the axle. the problem when you try to get that much travel out of a leaf spring suspension is the leafs dont locate the axle very well. you get axle wrap, rear steer and usually broken leafs. i personally dont think a 4 link is worth the hassle, especially for a mud truck where you would want a farily stiff suspension. competition vehicles and "show offs" are where i see the 4 links. but thats just my .02 worth:D

There used to be a writeup on a front link setup on the colorado k5 site. Daniel posted some pics in here of mostly-mud truck(s) with some decent looking antiwrap bars and leaves a while back.

that write up is in the technical forum on the message board of colorado k5's website.

Originally posted by IH Scout II
Looking to hear what you all have done for lift on your Dodge trucks/ Ramchargers . . . All and any input would be helpful. Pictures would be great also..

I have a Skyjacker 8" lift on my truck. On the Skyjacker application chart, they say you can run 35's with the 8" kit with no fender trimming or body lift . . . that's simply not true! I had to do quite a bit of fender trimming to run my 35's, and when I stepped up to 39's I had to add a 2" body lift and trim the fenders even more. Additionally, when I installed the lift, my truck sat lower in the rear. Perhaps this is because it is a crew cab and the additional weight made it sit lower. After a HEATED debate with Skyjacker, they finally sent me an add-a-leaf, and that made it sit level. The truck flexes pretty well considering its size and weight (7,500 lbs with 2 passengers). I'm going to eliminate the block in the rear soon (probably with a shackle reversal), as I have some axle-wrap problems. Picture attached . . .
http://home.att.net/~steve.thomas1/wsb/media/142903/site1035.jpg

gawd that truck is sexy. but anyways, im thinking about gettin the shackel flip from ramchargers central and finish it by boxing it top and bottom

that is a very nice truck. do you like the skyjacker suspension? i'm gonna get the 5" superlift kit from a guy whose goin back to stock suspension. i'm just gonna trim to get my 36's to fit. later on i'll trim(read cut the livin sh#t out of) the fenders and tub the bed to run 44" boggers. ;)

Overall, I like the Skyjacker springs all right. I needed as much lift as I could get, and short of ordering custom springs (which I looked into . . . BIG $$$$) the Skyjackers were the biggest I could find. I seriously considered the Superlifts as I have heard good things about them but have no actual experience with them.

I cut as much of my fenders as I could without seriously affecting the structural portion of the fender. I did have to brace the area in front of the rear tires, as I cut the factory brace out while trimming. Here’s what the truck looked like while I was in the trimming process (I took a little more off than is shown in the pic).


http://home.att.net/~steve.thomas1/wsb/media/142903/site1036.jpg
http://home.att.net/~steve.thomas1/wsb/media/142903/site1037.jpg
http://home.att.net/~steve.thomas1/wsb/media/142903/site1038.jpg

Those are 39.5 boggers? Not sure that I see the body lift in your last photos but I'll take your word for it. What is the black stuff you used on the fender wells - some kind of flexible flare material? Source? It looks really good. My '77 is on 6" springs and I don't want to go any higher - and I don't want a body lift either - with about as much cutting as you've done, what size tires do you think it'd fit?

Not sure if this will help or even if you care.
(87 dakota) running S-10 leafs in front,had some military wraps made up. using home made sis shackles in the rear. I also did cross over so it made it a little bit better to hook up.


As for the rear Running 1/2 ton chev rear leafs out of an gen 2 chev with 3/4 elip. ( used my stock dakota leafs for that )

As for drivabilty off road. Rides like a dream wicked loging road high speed handling. Sucks up the bumps like a water bed.
Flexes wicked. As for road holly shit does it have body roll makes it fun.
Oh yes also does not take load very well. To soft

thats what i'm getting away from with the power wagon. my jeep had the same thing goin on, good flex but poor on road handling plus it usaully broke cause of axle wrap.:rolleyes:

Originally posted by Lloyd
Those are 39.5 boggers? Not sure that I see the body lift in your last photos but I'll take your word for it. What is the black stuff you used on the fender wells - some kind of flexible flare material? Source? It looks really good. My '77 is on 6" springs and I don't want to go any higher - and I don't want a body lift either - with about as much cutting as you've done, what size tires do you think it'd fit?

Yeah, 39.5's and the body lift is there. It's harder to see in the front because I made some custom mud guards to go between the frame rails and the fenders. If you look closely in the rear, you'll see that the bed is not sitting directly on the frame rails.

I bought the flare material from JC Whitney, sku#14ZX1414W. They sell several different types, mine screws (or rivets) to the outside of the fender. They weren't long enough so I had to make splices. You can't see them from a distance, but if you get up close you can.

http://www.jcwhitney.com/images/imagecache/I16189.gif

As far as tire size with your 6” lift, assuming you want some flex, I would guess no more than 36’s.

OK, thanks. I'd hoped to run larger than 36" and don't mind cutting, but it does need to flex, too. Is the issue clearance to the cab, or some structural part of the fenders, or what? I know that Pete runs 39.5's on 3" lift (on a K5) but I didn't think that the Dodge construction was all THAT different. Also Peterson's did a writeup with 42's on a Ramcharger with 6" lift. Not sure what they had to cut to get them in there though, and they did say something about structural material. Just wish they'd given more/better pics. I've got a crewcab in the yard that I eventually plan to swap onto this frame (standard cab longbox) and the fenders will all be off and apart at that time, which could make the cutting and bracing much easier. Unfortunately I'll probably need tires before that gets done.

I think the issue is how much you’re willing to cut. If you’re going to have yours apart, then you could definitely cut more than I did, especially if you’re willing to get rid of the fender liners in the front. We have lots of mud here, so I wanted to maintain some protection for the engine. If I had to do it over again, I would spend the time bracing the fenders and just cut the shi$ out of 'em.

I really didn't want to do the body lift (I hate 'em). But, I'm glad I did. It makes everything easier to work on, and cleaning after a long day of mud is SOOOOOO much easier than before.

My advice: get your reciprocating saw out and have at it!

been looking at the ford 57" long spring. it has a 5" offset so you could turn them long side forward and have a longer spring and not lose departure angle. and they make some in 2.5" wide :D time to go to P-N-P.

well the deal fell out with the skyjacker lift/ trade. gonna change up the combo i think:

front:
gonna pick up skyjacker 6" springs and loose the bottom leaf on each pack to bring it down to 4" or so. gonna make 2" longer shackles out of 1/2x2 plate, build some offset shims to push the front axle forward 2" for a better approach angle and use the stock shock mount relocated higher to run 9012 shocks.
rear:
going to use 57" ford rear springs with an add-a-leaf, turned around long side forward, relocate the front mount 8" forward using a GM front mount, move the rear mount forward 5" and use a stock front mount. then build an 8-10" long shackle to make up for the short mount. rear shocks will be 5012's. it will keep the wheelbase at 112" and should give me a better departure angle, especially when i cut the frame off after the rear hanger and build a flatbed.

also gonna use some burly ladder style traction bars front and rear, 1 on each axle so i can use all that V-8 ;)