Just for the sake of pissing people off, I was thinking about doing my own version of the Oasis Trailhead compressor--it's the one where they drive a york with a winch motor. Beacuse I'm a big wuss, I don't want to give up my nice Toyota AC nor do I feel like doing the belt-driven thing. I want to do it for the sake of doing it...

They want $599 for one built from a re-furbished york...I think I could do what they do for cheaper. They use a 2.5 HP 12DC motor that is in theory a winch motor. They say it runs at 1650 RPM @50psi out the tube.

I'm looking for a source for such a motor (or better). Anyone know of a DC motor supplier? I'm poking around online and can't seem to find what I want. Granger comes close with a 1.75 HP motor that runs at 2900rpm. I could belt drive/gear it down to the 1600 range....and it's $168...

Anyone else done anything like this?

Personally I'd try ripping apart a spare starter and try to hook that up to a York. Shouldn't draw any more current that a winch motor and you can get starters in a variety of sizes from a wrecker for cheap.

Doesn't Bosch make the motors for the warn winches? Great idea by the way... $700 seems like a lot to me too.

I think Scrat is on to something with the starter motor idea. Based on those numbers (2.5 Hp & 1650 RPM), it sounds like there's a planetary gear set hiding somewhere in the mix.

cmk

Ok, upon going through the Battle Bots website I found some decent 12V guys. Also, Superwinch sells drive systems...

Anyone have any idea what kind of torque load a york generates up to about 80-100 PSI? What about at just tire pressures (like 35-50 psi)?

A starter motor should do fine. This has been kicked around before, no reason it wouldn't work. A rubber coupling like the one used between the engine and pump for a log splitter should work.

Originally posted by dirtrod
A starter motor should do fine. This has been kicked around before, no reason it wouldn't work. A rubber coupling like the one used between the engine and pump for a log splitter should work.

There called Lovejoy couplers.
http://www.lovejoy-inc.com/

I dunno if they have any that aren't 110V, but you can buy just the motor for an air compressor at Harbor Freight.

Try this link,

Replacement winch motors from Northern Tool (http://www.northerntool.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ExecMacro/NTE_SEARCH.d2w/report?KEYWORDS=winch+motor&PHOTOS=on)

The one thing that I see wrong with using a starter motor is they are not built for continuous use and neither is a winch motor. When I was thing about, I was looking into a wheel chair motor.

Originally posted by OOP'S
The one thing that I see wrong with using a starter motor is they are not built for continuous use and neither is a winch motor. When I was thing about, I was looking into a wheel chair motor.

Golf cart and wheel chair motors here:
http://www.lemac.com/pmx_gear_motor2.htm

Western Motors Service Co. (http://wms1.com/wms1/pages98/page_index.html)

About continuous duty:
The trailhead one isn't CD either. According to Oasis, it con only run for like 12-15 minutes continuously, with a 45 minute complete cooldown. They say it can do a 35" tire from 15 to 30psi in a minute, so it's not really an issue. Besides, the compressor needs to run at around 1000-1700 rpm to really get things done, and all of the CD motors are like 80:1 gear motors. I suppose you could pull the gearbox, but usually gear motors have weaker acutal motors that other applications...

So what exactly do the ouputs on the motors look like? What about the compressor input without the typical rive pulley? I looked at the coupling thing and it seems like as long as you actually knew what each output/input was you could do it easily. What about a chain or pulley setup? That way you could take a higher rpm motor and gear it to be just right.

Shopping list:
York
Motor
Gnarly <4 guage wires
Coupling between
Switches, breakers, relays
mounting plate
air fittings

starter motors are out. for the sake of keeping things simple most starter motors dont have cooling fins built into them. you would torch a starter motor in a matter of 60 seconds of continuous use. go for the wheelchair motor!!

I like this idea. Keep us posted. Ill do some searching to.

Being a poor college student, I was mostly playing around with ideas, as my funds are in the little to none range. However, I'm sure you could make the setup work for significantly less than $599.

However, if anyone wants to get on top of this, the www.battlebots.com has some decent suppliers (you have to wander intot he "build your own bot" section). The other winch motor suppliers listed here seem like they would work as well.

If anyone has a spare york they want to give me, I would be very happy to figure this whole thing out and give extensive documentation and how-to stuff.

My girlfriend is a Mechanical Engineering major, maybe she could use this as a design project...hmmm...what could be better than getting the girlfriend to build your unboard air and getting UC San Diego to pay for it...!?!?

Originally posted by Voltron
Just for the sake of pissing people off, I was thinking about doing my own version of the Oasis Trailhead compressor--it's the one where they drive a york with a winch motor. Beacuse I'm a big wuss, I don't want to give up my nice Toyota AC nor do I feel like doing the belt-driven thing. I want to do it for the sake of doing it...

I don't think you will be bothering John much. It took a year of testing various configurations of motors, various displacement York compressors and couplings to get it to where it is. The pile of tested motors alone is more than will fit in a good size wheelbarrow. Good luck with your endeavor. It seems a simple concept at first until you start slinging the solder out of the armatures.

They want $599 for one built from a re-furbished york...I think I could do what they do for cheaper. They use a 2.5 HP 12DC motor that is in theory a winch motor. They say it runs at 1650 RPM @50psi out the tube.

John and I discussed this quite often and it was my assumption that some would want a lower priced version and some who depend on the compressor to make a living would have no problem paying for a new not re-built unit.

You also have the luxury of not having to be compensated for your time to feed your family.

I'm looking for a source for such a motor (or better). Anyone know of a DC motor supplier? I'm poking around online and can't seem to find what I want. Granger comes close with a 1.75 HP motor that runs at 2900rpm. I could belt drive/gear it down to the 1600 range....and it's $168...

Anyone else done anything like this?

Lot's of luck finding a match for the York. I know there were at least 20 variations that started with off the shelf units and when they proved to be faulty in one way or another, he had to go to custom units. As it is, even the purpose built units have a relatively short duty cycle.

The problem is not the motor, it's having to run it with 12 volts. As soon as you kick in the motor a vicious cycle starts. Very few have a charging system capable of delivering a 200 amp specific load. 200 total, but not to one device. So, the motor starts and immediately starts discharging the battery because it is exceeding the output of the alternator. The voltage starts dropping and with it the amp usage goes up. (less volts=more amp draw). As the current demand ramps up, motor starts heating up. As it heats up, it becomes more inefficient and needs more current, more current means the battery runs down faster and you start all over in the cycle again.

To solve the problem you need a huge alternator and some sort of cooling on the motor. Even then I would be doubtful that the duty cycle would be extended very much. The design is just too inefficient. Neither good or bad, just a limitation of high loads and 12 volt systems.

If you do find a motor off the shelf that will do what you want, I am sure Mr. Williams would be very interested. :)

Mr Blaine:
Any idea what kind of torque load the compressors need at any pressure? there are a lot of motors would there with various rpm/HP/load/draw ratings, but without knowing what kind of twisting force a comp needs, it's hard to pick. Also, specifically, what motor does trailhead use?

Not knowing anything of price, warn has their winch motors availible as replacement parts. I don't know what rpm range they operate in, as they are usually geared like 200:1 or something....

What about the idea of taking a higher RPM motor and gearing/pulleying it down to a desireable range? If you could get a motor designed to run at 2x or 4x what you need, and reduce it to an operable range, you might have a happier system. You could also do the opposite with a slower motor, but most slow-moving motors are just geared down. I realize that you don't really gain any POWER (from the physics definition) that way, but you might be able to produce a more idea combo of rpm/current/load with a different motor. As I remember, DC motors have their power peak in the middle of the RPM VS Torque curve? Thus, the motor is at it's max horsepower halfway (in rpm) between it's no-load speed and stall speed?

What about different compressors? I mean anything from other AC compressors to the units for painting to anything. If you could get a pump with a higher cfm than say a quickair but maybe not as demanding as a york/sanden setup, you might be able to find a happy medium...

Originally posted by Voltron
Mr Blaine:
Any idea what kind of torque load the compressors need at any pressure? there are a lot of motors would there with various rpm/HP/load/draw ratings, but without knowing what kind of twisting force a comp needs, it's hard to pick. Also, specifically, what motor does trailhead use?

John doesn't trust me with that info. I do know as the pressure starts building, the motor is working pretty hard. It will produce pressures above 175 psi, but struggles pretty hard at the top.


Not knowing anything of price, warn has their winch motors availible as replacement parts. I don't know what rpm range they operate in, as they are usually geared like 200:1 or something....

That was the original motor tested. I figured if it turned a winch with the loads a winch sees, a little compressor should be no problem. Was I ever wrong.

What about the idea of taking a higher RPM motor and gearing/pulleying it down to a desireable range? If you could get a motor designed to run at 2x or 4x what you need, and reduce it to an operable range, you might have a happier system. You could also do the opposite with a slower motor, but most slow-moving motors are just geared down. I realize that you don't really gain any POWER (from the physics definition) that way, but you might be able to produce a more idea combo of rpm/current/load with a different motor. As I remember, DC motors have their power peak in the middle of the RPM VS Torque curve? Thus, the motor is at it's max horsepower halfway (in rpm) between it's no-load speed and stall speed?

That was my original plan. I based it on the way I have seen every shop compressor ever built. John wanted to simplify construction and maintain as small of a footprint as possible. A valid point he made was that I had never seen a 12V shop compressor.

What about different compressors? I mean anything from other AC compressors to the units for painting to anything. If you could get a pump with a higher cfm than say a quickair but maybe not as demanding as a york/sanden setup, you might be able to find a happy medium...

I think there is a market for that compressor. I am looking for a way to keep the rotating mass down, the weight of the compressor head down, and eliminate the lubrication problems. I tore apart a few sanden style compressors and after looking at the innards of a few of them, sort of relegated them to the same hard to lube category as the york.

Personally, I dislike the york. Old technology, way too heavy, very inefficient, hard to lube compared to modern standards. I even looked at converting the swash plate style rotaries to teflon piston rings but the development costs are too high.

Ideally, I would like to find a wobble piston dual head compressor that can be adapted to high speed medium torque 12V motor. Similar to many of todays shop compressors. Just haven't located the right one yet.

Can you not put the compressor on and still have factory air? I just finished mine on my Jeep a couple of days ago with a Tecumseh compressor and I still have factory air.

http://www.cowtownjeeps.com/pics/oba/obatop.jpg

That's the Sanden factory air to the right, the Tecumseh to the left.

One of the mags had a write up about the trailhead and I could have swore that they said that they use 24v motors (Which will work on 12 volts)

Mesa4x4.com has the new motor Oasis for $499!!

Jay@mesa4x4.com

Tell them Tim Cooper send you.

You might consider purchase a several of the cheap "emergency" air pumps, the small 12 vdc compressors that are $10.00 each, and take them apart to make a single multi-cylinder/motor compressor assembly.

These small compressors can be easily mounted on all-thread for side by side multi-cylinder mounting. Each compressor alone does not provide much volume, although the combination of multiple cylinders will air up a large tire fairly quickly (and nothing pumps like an engine driven I-R or York, so don't fool yourself into an electric compressor if this is what you want).

The total system performance is directly related to the number of compressors used: four compressors will pump up a tire four times faster than one (2.5 minutes for a 35x12.5 instead of 10 minutes). Mags print the (poor) performance of these cheap single cylinder compressors as the baseline in their pump shootouts so information on the performance should be easy to calculate.

The limitation on volume is the combined amp draw of the multiple motors, and your wire choice for the feed line. The standard clip-on 14 gage wire lead is good for 15 amps, and only three compressors at 60 psi (what I built in an hour and @ $45 total investment). Using 2 gage jumper cable wire to a terminal block and distribution from the block to the individual compressor motors bypasses this limitation (and provides locations for individual unit fuse protection).

The output hose of each compressor is tee'd together for a common high volume pressure connection and the gage from one pump can be added for pressure indication. Including a pressure relief valve in the final hose is recommended, as the combination will quickly overpressure the hose unless connected to a tank, or left to leak (like when attached to a leaking schraeder valve fill fitting).

What this option will not do is provide the volume required for a pneumatic nailer or impact wrench, or a system reliable enough for use with air brakes or other safety system. The result will not match an engine driven system for performance. The option is cheap (under $100 for the same performance as a $400 single cylinder electric system) and crude, and it can take up space (the packaging challenge), but it works and can be fabbed fast and made portable (when a competition deadline nears).

Happy Trails!

Originally posted by TornadoTJ
Can you not put the compressor on and still have factory air?

Yes, I did it on my Toy. It wasn't easy (there isn't much room), but it can be done. :)

Paging Mr. Blaine,

I worked on a prototype waterjet pump with a wobble plate design. I can finally talk about it because the patent is filed, my boss told the world, and he passed away this year (RIP Al).

To make a long story short, we did everything in house except one pass our poor chinese lathe didn't have the rigidity to make w/o chattering like a caffinated cheerleader.

I think it would work in this application with some adaptations. Very simple design, and small enough to have a "normal" CNC shop crank out parts on a 3 or 4 axis lathe.

Working on electric fork lifts i come across some cool things...

1. 24v electric drive motor they rage in size from 2-6 horse power
2. granly 4gauge power cables

There are a few problems that i am running into.

1. Size, these motors are pertty damn big
2. coupling the motor to the compressor
3. amperage draw

I am working on these problems and will let you guys know what i find out...

There is a place in Lincoln NE that sells new winch motors called the Surplus Center Tel. 1-800-488-3407 no website but a cool fawking catalog I have bought alota shit from them. they have page after page of 12V DC motors.

I don't know crap about this stuff. What about using an actual aircompressor motor(120 AC) and a serious inverter? I run a Premier Power Welder on my rigs, but you gotta spin the motor at around 3000rpm to run power tools. It will also burn up the switches in them if you don't feather the triggers. I've never checked on big power inverters, and I have no clue as to what kind of power they yank out of the system, but would anything like that work?
A.K.A.-cluless in America....

I have a feeling a 120V compressor (at least one that would do you any good) would draw way too much current. Just look at the power cords they use--very thick to minimize resistance.

Even if there was an inverter that could handle it, it would probably cost too much.

Good thought, though.

I was thinking maybe just use the actual compressor from a 120V unit (small one) and run it with a 12V DC motor...

There are inverters that will handle that much current easily. You can find them on larger house boats and traval trailers. A new true sinewave inverter like one from prosine or another good quality company will run like 1000 to 1500 dollars.:eek: :eek: :eek: Way too expensive but very nice when necessary.

lets see a toy gear reductuion starter and some fab should get a york compressor pumping pretty good and it should have a pretty good duty cycle! the lovejoy connecter/ joint thingy should work awsome, sounds like about $80 total at the pnp/graingers/mcmastercarr, break out the welder and plasma cutter!!!!!!!!!get it awn!!!! lets see pics!!

I believe the motor that Oasis uses is from a snowplow. Runs all the hydro. Something to look into.

Originally posted by Rockit
I believe the motor that Oasis uses is from a snowplow. Runs all the hydro. Something to look into.

No it's not. It and a couple of versions are purpose built and wound specifically to extend the duty cycle and try to limit how often it thermals out.

The armatures are ever silver soldered because regular lead solder just slings out when they get hot.

Originally posted by Voltron


What about different compressors? I mean anything from other AC compressors to the units for painting to anything. If you could get a pump with a higher cfm than say a quickair but maybe not as demanding as a york/sanden setup, you might be able to find a happy medium...

you mean something like this.... it's a cambell hausfeld oil-less coupled to a continuous duty 12 volt motor..... a little project I've been working on for a while.... a little more air for the airzuki:D

how about using a weed eater motor to drive the york

elec lawn mower motor?? Home Vacum motor?

I am putting the finishing touches on a Trailhead-like compressor. Using a 24V 100% duty cycle DC motor spining 1100rpm with a machined coupler (gotta love friends with cnc machines) to a York compressor pulled from a late 70s Volvo. I just finished ordering my fittings and lines to complete the project. I am now working on the electrical system. I will be able to charge both batteries and then connect them in series for the compressor by the flip of a switch. Should be pertty cool and all for less than 1/2 the price of the Trailhead.