This reporter has done pretty well in the past, reporting decent things about our sport. Most of the "ass" in the article is the leo and the kids.
Help me, "fine tune" my response a little, if you would please.
Is my red section to much?
Basicly trying to respond on the ohv side of things.
I threw one or two dumb answers in there, for discussion sake:homer:.

http://avpress.com/n/30/0130_s5.hts


Links and color by me.

Kern County sheriff's officials have announced a zero-tolerance policy toward off-roaders who ride in areas off-limits to such traffic. Officials will no longer offer warnings and will instead cite those found riding in illegal areas and on private property. "At this point, we think we've warned people enough," said Sgt. Richard Wood of the Tehachapi substation. The problem has increased lately in areas around Tehachapi and Rosamond. "We basically had a growing number of complaints from property owners in this region about riders cutting fences, chasing livestock, knocking down signs, just being rude," Wood said. How many complaints? How many fences? Chasing livestock and knocking down signs is inexcusable! The problems have led to the formation of a local group of property owners called Off-Road Vehicle Watch Kern County, Wood said, one of the organizations with whom officials met to discuss the complaints. Sgt. Bobby Daniels of the Rosamond substation described a "roomful of angry property owners" leading to the increased enforcement. Sheriff's patrols are expected to increase in the problem areas, and officials will conduct periodic special enforcement activities. One such special enforcement activity took place the weekend of Jan. 17 outside Rosamond. More than 50 people were contacted as they were preparing to ride, and a few were issued citations for equipment violations, Wood said. "As a result, the ranchers and homeowners said it was a very quiet weekend," he said. While most of those riders received warnings, that will no longer be the case. "I think it would take a very special circumstance to release someone with a warning," Wood said. A lot of the contacts made during the Jan. 17 effort involved informing would-be riders of the private property issues. Most of them, might not have been aware of private property. "I think education will help," Daniels said. Yes, it would!

Since the Angles National Forest is closest to the AVPress... http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/angeles/recreation/ohv.shtml The Angeles National Forest provides 364 miles of designated OHV routes (roads). Because of the many different uses of the Forest and the delicate environment, all OHV travel must be on designated routes and trails or in designated Open Areas. When off-roading, all vehicles must meet DMV standards for approved mufflers and current registration. Off-highway vehicles such as motorcycles, ATVs and Odysseys must be equipped with approved spark arresters and have valid green stickers. Remember - State law requires that ALL ATV riders wear a helmet.
http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/angeles/recreation/maps/mvum_newsprint_main_div09222008.pdf http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/angeles/recreation/maps/mvum_newsprint_saugus09222008.pdf RELATED INFORMATION
Rowher Flats OHV Area
[currently closed]
Located 10 miles north of Newhall, California, Rowher Flat is open to motorcycles, ATV's and 4-wheel drive vehicles. San Gabriel OHV Area
San Gabriel Canyon OHV Area offers up to 150 acres of diverse off-road opportunities. Littlerock
[currently closed]
Located on the Angeles National Forest Santa Clara/Mojave Rivers Ranger District. Open from sunrise to sunset. This is also a popular fishing location and picnic areas are provided. No overnight camping is allowed. Take Highway 138 to Cheseboro Road, turn south, 2½ miles to entrance station.Drinkwater Flats
[currently closed]
Located on the Angeles National Forest Santa Clara/Mojave Rivers Ranger District. OHVs are restricted to designated roads and trails. Take San Francisquito road to Drinkwater road; travel 5 miles to Drinkwater Flats.
Please find me the OPEN 364 miles of designated OHV routes?

"We're taking a positive stand to help those folks up there who are being victimized." Citations can carry fines from $100 for a first offense to $1,000 or more for multiple offenses. "We're shooting for no repeat offenders," Wood said. No legal off-road trails are in the vicinity of Rosamond and Tehachapi, other than on a rider's own property. Or written permission from the land owner. The nearest legal off-road trails are north of Mojave at Jawbone Canyon, at Dove Springs and around California City. The problem is not limited to out-of-town riders looking for trails in the area's wide-open spaces, Wood said. Local riders, especially teens, live near the same open spaces and want to ride on them. Thank the kid's parents, for teaching them so well. The problem can be aggravated by property owned by out-of-town landowners who haven't fenced the property or posted signs. This leads some riders to believe the land is open for public use. If it is not posted, and they aren't there, how can they complain? "I think people are just getting fed up," Wood said.On both sides. It is so hard to find legal "open" land to ride, that if you see other people riding you kind of assume it's open.

Signed,
Me blah blah blah.

Reminds me of a bumper sticker I saw once "Kern County Sheriff, we kick your A$$" at a glance it appeared positive, till you got close enough to actually read it. Your green sticker funds at work "O" well get used to it, when the State welfare checks stop going out we're going to have Marshall law to look forward to...TJ:shaking:

Mud Rod, Im very familiar with this reporter and this situation.

There is many details, too many to post here,

If you are going to write this paper, I can clue you in on all the details
but would rather it be by phone, PM me if you want some help

I think I may know you, you may have helped us out when we were racing

Wayne

Well Wayne it may all be a moot point, if they take or sticky money soon all Law enforcement Agency's wont have time to deal with us, $90 Million wont make a dent in a $42 Billion Dollar shortfall. Just saw on the OC Register front page today the States holding back tax refund checks, well when the welfare checks start bouncing all the gun toter's are going to have real problems to deal with...TJ:smokin:

Mud Rod, Im very familiar with this reporter and this situation.

There is many details, too many to post here,

If you are going to write this paper, I can clue you in on all the details
but would rather it be by phone, PM me if you want some help

I think I may know you, you may have helped us out when we were racing

Wayne

Wayne,
I only read the local paper online. I have sent a few emails thanking her for the positive reporting. Mainly all the cal-city articles since the beginning of November. This article went a little askew from my expectations, not to mention a few beers last night. My intention was to try to argue, without looking like a moron and tarnishing the OHV crowd any more.
I'm on the southside of the county line, and am unaware of all the facts. I will not respond to this article, because I'm sure that it probably won't be in the best interest of our sport(s).
On a side note I haven't assited your race team, but have a friend or two that have. The closest, I have come to meeting you, was at Timmy Baker's funeral last year. I don't think either of us was in the mood.:(

R.I.P. Tim
1965-2008


TomJeeps,
It still comes down to a few bad apples.
I would rather you meet me, and then decide I'm an ass, than you just see me on my quad, or in my truck, jeep or sand rail and automaticly think I'm the a-hole chasing your livestock.

Problem is everything where a criminal uses an OHV in a crime is by default an OHV issue, hunter takes an ATV off trail to recover a kill rather that walking, compliant goes to the OHV manager. Issues involving harassing livestock are trespassing issues, so now if rustlers are now using ATVs is that to an OHV issue? How do we handle it by more anti OHV ordinances, or stepping up enforcement of those steeling live stock...TJ

Well anyhow, I know that reporter well, Im surprised she did not
contact myself or Ed. Allison has always given us good press
and gives us a ring for a quote.

The problem with this particular area known as "Bean Canyon" its mostly
private property mixed with a couple of BLM sections. People assume its an
open riding area because its remoteness. To compound things the Pacific
Crest trail traverses though the area.

The couple of BLM sections were never classified for OHV, there are no
WEMO routes there. Its not legal to ride there, even if people stake claim
they have ridden Bean "All my life" It does not make it any more legal to ride there.

Now COW http://www.orvwatchkerncounty.com/ enters the picture to stir the
pot here in Kern County. Bean is a hot spot problem, COW is leading the
press to think its a county wide problem. So now the anti access nuts are
rallying support to install ridiculous ordnances here in Kern similar to 3973 in
San Bernardino co.

We dont need this county wide ORD to fix a spot problem in Bean.

We went to their first anti OHV COW meeting about a week ago. Ed and myself (Even a couple of D37 guys showed)
diluted the meeting, they wanted to get the community of Rosmond fired up

I didn't work, There were just some concerned residences with some legit
gripes. Half of are their own local neighbors running a muck. The Sheriffs
are currently addressing the problem.

The article is not too far off, it just states current law enforcement is going
to start citing people if they are not were they are supposed to be and turn away
the trucks with bikes if they dont have written permission to ride there.

The COW people even went as far as starting a bunch of crap on a bike web site
i frequent called "ThumperTalk" and the Mods their did their job deleting
a bunch of posts in attempt to drag people to Bean compounding the problem.

So that is what sparked that article, COW has been out pushing other papers in
the area and we have been getting clobbered in the press.

So there you have it

We also miss Tim Baker, I grew up with Tim from grade school. What great memories
and times we had. Ann and I will never forget Tim Baker

Wayne Nosala

Sounds like the Riverside ordnance fiasco, bet the people involved represented .0001% of the residents in that county, and probably only about 1/3 actually lived there...TJ:shaking:

I know you must of made a call.:D

This is the type of article that I'm used to reading.(from Miss Allison)
http://avpress.com/n/08/0208_s1.hts
It gives "the good, the bad, and the ugly" view, but I'm ok with that.

In retrospect, I think, in the last article, I was mostly upset by the lack of OHV input. It was just a little one sided.

I like your quote:
"You get 100,000 people out here, it only takes 100 to run amok," Nosala said. "It doesn't take too many to give us a bad name."
So so true.:shaking:

Wayne, Sorry to say but your statement is a little incorrect. BEAN CANYON is not the only HOT SPOT PROBLEM, the bikers just particularly like that canyon or maybe its because the name is easy to remember, who knows. The dirtbikes/ATV's also frequent Burham Canyon, Gamble Springs Canyon and Tylerhorse Canyon to the west of Bean. And Bean is primarily BLM and CalPortland Cement until you start getting down onto the flats.

There are also more than "a couple" of BLM sections throughout that area, there are over a dozen, none are designated OHV. Half the problems are not "our own neighbors running amuck". These off-roaders come from all over, Los Angeles, Orange County, Calabasas, Ventura, Taft, Bakersfield, Antelope Valley and Cal City.

You are also misinformed when you say that Kern ORV Watch is "leading the press into thinking its a county-wide problem". They don't have to lead the press, they only state to the press exactly what they are dealing with. The Kern ORV Watch meeting attendees come from many areas in Kern County. The OHV community also has no respect for private property in and around areas of Tehachapi, they ride wherever they want to with no respect for others, even in communites where there are CC&R's that state OHV is NOT permitted. And dirtbikers DO chase cattle and horses, we have seen them in action. No one has to make this stuff up, it really is happening whether you believe it or not.

By the way, Kern ORV Watch did not meet in Rosamond to "get the community of Rosamond all fired up" as you stated, now don't make things up. The fact is they met there because it was a central meeting point for the attendees of the meeting, nothing more. Not knowing how many would be attending and lack of another facility the sheriff allowed them to borrow their meeting room, nothing more. They have since located several other places to hold meetings. An ordinance may not be the answer the OHVers want to hear, can you contribute something constructive to resolve the illegal OHV abuse and private property complaints?

Wayne, Sorry to say but your statement is a little incorrect.
Golly, I sure am glad you've come here to bleed propaganda and set us straight! :rolleyes: You listed off a bunch of places where OHVs are used, with the implication that these, too, are trouble spots... just what we need, another anti-access shill stating that everywhere there is use, there is abuse.

Please provide the usage surveys and good studies where you have differentiated between local users and out-of-the-area users -- until then, we'll just assume that you have an opinion and Wayne has an opinion... and since Wayne's opinion comes from talking to folks who actually use the area, my personal take on it is that his opinion holds more water than yours, since yours seems to be built on assumption and not interviews.

Kern ORV Watch is most certainly trying to whip this up into a public frenzy, read their press.

Your statement here is proof of the point...
The OHV community also has no respect for private property...
You're painting with a broad brush and characterizing all with the actions of a few, and leading others into believing it is a county-wide problem and that all OHVers are irresponsible. :shaking: We freely acknowledge that a few OHVers are idiots, but we'd prefer to see the existing laws against off-route travel or harassing livestock enforced. Sweeping additional layers of laws on top of the existing laws add little value.

An ordinance may not be the answer the OHVers want to hear, can you contribute something constructive to resolve the illegal OHV abuse and private property complaints?
For starters, why don't you use your vigilante force to photo document violations, and submit these few exceptions for prosecution, instead of whipping a political frenzy up to prevent reasonable OHV use in the whole county? Perhaps you could also encourage private property owners to sign, fence, and enforce their own property lines, as consistent with the responsibility that comes with their rights as property owners? While you're at it, why don't you encourage the neighborhoods with CCnRs to sign and patrol their own neighborhoods instead of sucking time and energy from understaffed local law enforcement agencies to differentially patrol only the best neighborhoods, where CCnRs exist?

Lastly, could you please call up your parents and ask them why they didn't do a better job teaching you to share the world with other forms of recreation, instead of trying to outlaw everything you don't agree with or understand? :homer:

Randii

Golly, I sure am glad you've come here to bleed propaganda and set us straight! :rolleyes: You listed off a bunch of places where OHVs are used, with the implication that these, too, are trouble spots... just what we need, another anti-access shill stating that everywhere there is use, there is abuse.

I'm just disagreeing with statements made that are incorrect. And I'm not just implying that these are trouble spots, I'm stating I KNOW they are trouble spots as we talk to the property owners.
Please provide the usage surveys and good studies where you have differentiated between local users and out-of-the-area users -- until then, we'll just assume that you have an opinion and Wayne has an opinion... and since Wayne's opinion comes from talking to folks who actually use the area, my personal take on it is that his opinion holds more water than yours, since yours seems to be built on assumption and not interviews.

I too talk with the "folks" who live in the area or vacation on their properties. I don't need a "usage survey" to differentiate between local and out of area users. The typical ones that are "supposedly lost" when you catch them, once stopped usually tell you where they are from, the license plates on their trucks are photographed, their green stickers and faces are photographed, all turned over to the sheriff. I'm sure Wayne doesn't do "usage surveys", documenting everyone he talks to.
Kern ORV Watch is most certainly trying to whip this up into a public frenzy, read their press.

Your statement here is proof of the point...

You're painting with a broad brush and characterizing all with the actions of a few, and leading others into believing it is a county-wide problem and that all OHVers are irresponsible. :shaking: We freely acknowledge that a few OHVers are idiots, but we'd prefer to see the existing laws against off-route travel or harassing livestock enforced. Sweeping additional layers of laws on top of the existing laws add little value.

For starters, why don't you use your vigilante force to photo document violations, and submit these few exceptions for prosecution, instead of whipping a political frenzy up to prevent reasonable OHV use in the whole county? Perhaps you could also encourage private property owners to sign, fence, and enforce their own property lines, as consistent with the responsibility that comes with their rights as property owners? While you're at it, why don't you encourage the neighborhoods with CCnRs to sign and patrol their own neighborhoods instead of sucking time and energy from understaffed local law enforcement agencies to differentially patrol only the best neighborhoods, where CCnRs exist?
The private communities with CCR's do have signs, they sign contracts when they move into the area, one in particular does have it own police force. Others rely on calling the local sheriff

I never lumped all ohver's together, I did not say I wanted to outlaw OHV in the entire county, nor did I say they were ALL irresponsible. My comment about Wayne getting his info that HALF of the problems out here are our own neighbors, that's blindly stated. He doesn't drive around out there and interview all the people either, he doesn't sit up on the Pacific Crest Trail and see how many riders are continually on the trail, the damage they do. We do see the trespass and damage to private property. It doesn't matter that its locals or out-of-towners, illegal trespass is illegal trespass. The no trespassing signs continually get torn down, frequently you can see bike tracks ride right up to a sign and then hang a left or right as if only the spot where the sign sits is what its referring to.
Lastly, could you please call up your parents and ask them why they didn't do a better job teaching you to share the world with other forms of recreation, instead of trying to outlaw everything you don't agree with or understand? :homer:

Randii

The OHVers are the ones that disagree with what any one else says, if you don't like what someone says, you make personal attacks or in the case of forums you ban them from the site. I'm an off-roader, I ride legally, I jetski and ride horses. I have family members that have dirtbikes, ATV's and a dune-buggy. I am all for outdoor sports of all kinds just like you and not trying to outlaw all off-road recreation. Its a great family sport.

The OHVers are the ones that disagree with what any one else says, if you don't like what someone says, you make personal attacks or in the case of forums you ban them from the site. I'm an off-roader, I ride legally, I jetski and ride horses. I have family members that have dirtbikes, ATV's and a dune-buggy. I am all for outdoor sports of all kinds just like you and not trying to outlaw all off-road recreation. Its a great family sport.

Nope -you are certainly not just like me - you have waaayyy too much knowledge. Next you will argue that you know how to drive and therefore an expert in the Motor Vehicle Code. Only a child or a fool would come to a 4X4 board and make the statement "The OHV community also has no respect for private property" then whine about other people. I usually do not suffer fools but you are are the moment's amusement.

If you are the quality of "Kern ORV Watch" then all you are doing is helping point out just how radicalized they are and people like me who have not taken an active position on the issue until now will move against them.

If I was Wayne I would encourage you to keep posting - you're doing great!

Alas, it is my observation that Pirate4X4 is not a rehab for fools nor exists to train you how to access more brain cells - so if they ban you I understand why even though flame wars can be amusing on occasion.... the Land Use section has different rules than other sections such as General Chit-Chat but then that would require taking your head out long enough to look around and read....

I have a standing policy to always help a martyr out... I think I've given what you are looking for... feel better now?