The rules on next years entry form show some changes:

"...and you will be expected to sign a confidentiality agreement that acknowledges Four Wheelers copyright on all Top Truck Challenge information and photos for all media, including the internet."

Proof that POR does have an impact on the world of 'wheeling:D I guess Four Wheeler is tightening its grip on what gets out--no more eyewitness accounts.

Another small change:
"...your rig must be capable of being driven legally on the street." No more rock buggies at TTC.

hasn't the truck always had to be legal and registered in it's home state? as well as insured? I think so.....

Um... does the avalanche sniper look street legal to you? Or JRs "bronco" and that other tube buggy in there this year?

That's a good one. How do they expect that it will all be a big secret? You can't tell your friends? There were also a lot of people there that were not supposed to be. Are they going to tighten security? It's not like they had any security last year. I don't think they really asked anyone to see thier arm bands.

And what the hell does the other rule mean? There may have only been 1 or 2 vehicles from TTC 2002 that were actually street legal. Is JR's rig street legal? No, but it could have been if it was built with an assembled title. He would have to add emissions equiptment, and other junk. Is that what they want? I think the Raptor was definitely a stretch of the street legal B.S. He couldn't even drive 45mph safely.

Interesting how it keeps changing each year. Last year's new rule was no body switcheroos. Things seemed to get a little tighter since Jon Thompson came in.

The internet certainly has it's power :D

Originally posted by SCOTTS_4X
hasn't the truck always had to be legal and registered in it's home state? as well as insured? I think so.....

Yes, it always has been that way. Yes, all the rigs were legally registered in their states of origin. The Sniper was registered as a CJ5 since it had a d300 t-case at one point, as I recall. There's always ways around the laws. In my case, I registered when it was little and just never let it expire.

J. J.

Originally posted by marilyn
"...your rig must be capable of being driven legally on the street."

They got a lot of heat from the cops this year.
We drove the bronco into town one day (some locals said it's not a problem) ironically, to buy a rear view mirror for the next days "ride and drive". It was weird waiting at stop lights holding my arm out for a lefty. Pulling into a crowded shopping center, using rear steer( tires barking from the detroits) to squeeze next to a Honda Civic and BMW, removing the steering wheel then "bailing out" of the bronco was even more weird.

I feel guilty about the new rules. :flipoff2: :D :cool:

hey JR, how about you post a couple shots of the Bronco, just
so I can oogle it while I'm here stuck at work......

thanks,

--Sherpa

PS: shot's of Marilyn climbing in/out will be OK as well....

Originally posted by SHERPA RIG
hey JR, how about you post a couple shots of the Bronco, just
so I can oogle it while I'm here stuck at work......


Go ahead and drool:flipoff2:

I too questioned the "street legality" of trucks like the Raptor and the Frog ( JR , your bronco "looks" more legal 'cause it still has body panels and such IMHO )

I do know that Ryeguy's Blazer is in fact street legal and street driven in our province ( B.C. ) he was extremely careful to meet all the height restrictions and made sure it would pass a V.I. if neccessary......
I'm pretty sure that wolf359, Cory Dean, and Abba's trucks were all street legal too

If you can register a sandrail as a VW with the engine and transaxle nothing will stop you to register something as a truck with the vin tag....shoot for $5 bucks most yards will give you a title and vin tag if the vehicles a good mover on parts front....heck around here to register it is a joke....and whether its stable or capabble of going 45 shouldn't be a limiter either....if all else fails register it as a model T.......

Originally posted by AIRZUKI


I'm pretty sure that wolf359, Cory Dean, and Abba's trucks were all street legal too

If I put some fenders on it and mudflaps, I could drive it on the street.

I'd likely carry the Highway Traffic Act with me in the truck just in case, but it would be legal.

The truck is licensed, registered and insured in my province.

Tim.

There is an easy way around the street legal thing here. When Jason Paule built his first buggy, he had the HP come and look at it and give it an official vin tag and registration. The funny thing was that it was pretty much just a frame, cage and some axles. He does have blinkers and headlights, so he is legal that way.

Erin

They should have a Chp officer With a copy of each states laws go over the trucks... :p This year was a Joke as far as that rule went... Its sad when you have trucks that are sponsored so they can ship the truck to the event.... Its more of a whos got the most money, than who can build the best tuck event :flipoff2: I do agree with the posting of pictures on the net... I took over a 100 pics and I didn't post one out of respect:rolleyes:

I think the street legal rule is aimed at evening the playing field a little. I love the Fat City Bronco but you could have bought the majority of the other trucks with what it probably cost to build it. With as much coverage as TTC gets now it was obvious that high dollar machines would start to show up and dominate. But I dont think that was what TTC was designed to showcase. I personally would rather see the 4x4s like Tims Cruiser that he built to play with, not compete with. Lets keep the shop sponsored competition 4x4s out of it.
Of course, I really dont know what the hell Im talking about but Im getting really close to 100 posts and I need to get rid of that "newbie" thingy!!

Originally posted by 72zebra
I think the street legal rule is aimed at evening the playing field a little. I love the Fat City Bronco but you could have bought the majority of the other trucks with what it probably cost to build it. With as much coverage as TTC gets now it was obvious that high dollar machines would start to show up dominate. But I dont think that was what TTC was designed to showcase. I personally would rather see the 4x4s like Tims Cruiser that he built to play with, not compete with. Lets keep the shop sponsored competition 4x4s out of it.
Of course, I really dont know what the hell Im talking about but Im getting really close to 100 posts and I need to get rid of that "newbie" thingy!!

I AGREE EVEN WITH THE NEWBIE THING :rolleyes:

Originally posted by 72zebra
...........With as much coverage as TTC gets now it was obvious that high dollar machines would start to show up and dominate. But I dont think that was what TTC was designed to showcase. .............
the mag pics what rigs they will put in the mag to vote on, so it goes what ever way they want, and they want those high $ rigs or they would leave them out of the reader vote, that said the mags are gay, who cares? I read the net, don't gewt mags. the people on por know a whole lot more then the mags....well some of you:flipoff2:

actually... They just put the specs and all in the mag, the readers vote. So, if the readers want to see high-dollar machines battle it out, then so be it... Look back to when the Scorpion and Quagmyr were in it. They weren't cheap. Face it, even a "lo-buck" rig isn't so cheap anymore, not for TTC... Look what has won it... All vehicles with 40 inch plus tires. And 40 inch plus tires don't come cheaply. Neither do the axles or drivetrain to turn those them. Granted, some may spend more than others.

And as far as "sponsored" vehicles go, I'm glad that the Frog got sponsored. Otherwise, he wouldn't have been able to be in it. 25 Gs is a lot of cheddar to put up on ones own *just* to do like what, 4 days worth of stuff?

Street legal... huh. :rolleyes: That does little to level the playing field unless they specify that all rigs must be street legal in Hollister.

It is a slippery slope, though, as anyone who has ever created rules will admit -- where do you stop? Does it have to be CARB smog legal? Does it need DOT-approved glass?

Heck, if it was me, I'd show up with either US Marshall's plates (DOT-exempt) or license it as a trailer. :flipoff2:

...and as for leveling the playing field, have the last three events been lopsided?

Randii

Originally posted by SeaBass44

the mag pics what rigs they will put in the mag to vote on, so it goes what ever way they want, and they want those high $ rigs or they would leave them out of the reader vote, that said the mags are gay, who cares? I read the net, don't gewt mags. the people on por know a whole lot more then the mags....well some of you:flipoff2:

I agree! Im a full size 4x4 fan and Im so sick of seeing all the freakin show trucks in the magazines. The magazines do a great job of covering the Rock side of 4x4s but when the show full size trucks its always these freakin 10 bolt trailer queens. I want to see some actual fullsize trucks that get dirty. Sure theres not much "Tech" in a fullsize mudtruck but on the "Fun for you Buck" scale a good ole mudtruck kicks ass! Screw the show trucks!

Oh, and of course if their is any magazine people out there reading this who would like to feature my junker... eh I mean 4x4, Im just kidding, love your magazine, Im talking about the other guys!!

Originally posted by JParuBob
actually... They just put the specs and all in the mag, the readers vote
YES, BUT THE MAG COULD NOT PUT THE HIGH $ RIGS IN THERE TO BE VOTED ON IN THE 1ST PLACE IF THEY DIDN'T WANT THEM............damn cap lock:flipoff2: just cause you send in a pic, don't mean it gets posted.last time I read a few years back it was like 72 rigs to vote from??????? I bet they get thosands of submissions each year.

i'd be willing to be that the reason the 1000s of rigs get thrown out is that they miss several of the requirements. They do have multiple requirements, and I'm willing to bet that those 72 rigs come closest to meeting most of them. I've seen several of the vehicles in the past that either weren't finished, or missed a requirement. Usually it is a winch that is missing, but I remember a toyota or something from a few years ago that wasn't even completed (and someone actually wrote into the mag about that)... And I'd rather they narrowed it to like 70-100 vehicles. I don't want to read through every freakin description to find out that 800 of the 1000 don't cut it...

Originally posted by randii

Heck, if it was me, I'd show up with either US Marshall's plates (DOT-exempt) or license it as a trailer. :flipoff2:

Randii

I would use Farm Truck plates. Put a bag of feed in the back and you can drive it anywhere without a liscense. Thats a little trick we did to drive to school at 14-15yrs old back in Missouri. I had a 70 GMC flat bed with a 307, oh and a gun rack that always had a few guns in it. Funny how things change huh?

Originally posted by JParuBob
i'd be willing to be that the reason the 1000s of rigs get thrown out is that they miss several of the requirements. They do have multiple requirements, and I'm willing to bet that those 72 rigs come closest to meeting most of them. I've seen several of the vehicles in the past that either weren't finished, or missed a requirement. Usually it is a winch that is missing, but I remember a toyota or something from a few years ago that wasn't even completed (and someone actually wrote into the mag about that)... And I'd rather they narrowed it to like 70-100 vehicles. I don't want to read through every freakin description to find out that 800 of the 1000 don't cut it...

I'm pretty sure that guy glen wakefield sent in his sammie to compete, got voted in and then showed up with a completely different rig that he said he built in the 3weeks before the comp....what kind of crap was that, and why did they let it fly? GAY ASS mags:D

How about when ole Sam (Sams OffRoad) won it all. Quite a bit of imagination went into the judged portions to give him the win. Any one else notice that he was in every freakin issue for a year or two. I got real tired of seeing that turd jeep.

Buts thats just my opinion (ever closer to 100 posts!)

you can go around and around with this... But i Guess it all comes down to what the mag. wants in the TTC... After all even though we vote on their pics and spec. they get the overall say in what we get to vote on:p

Originally posted by rocktop
I would just once like to see a rig in the mag... that has both doors smashed in, the bed half torn off, and the fenders cut up to the hood, with three differn't colors with some rust for a paint job:rolleyes:

And no i am not talking about READER RIGS:p

Petersons 4 wheel and off road featured a yellow ford called tonka or something or other a couple months ago, that had a few dents. You could tell it was used.
Shaggy

The red 1 1/2 ton Chev in TTC this year from Canada looked like it had some pretty decent body damage goin in.. :D

Anyways, in fourwheelin', as in any other sport where you supply your own equipment, there will always be people with more money and nicer shit. That's the way it works. Funny we don't hear people bitching after every RCAA event that so and so had a more expensive truck so they won..

Oh wait that's right YOU STILL HAVE TO DRIVE IT TOO!!! :flipoff2:

Going in to the event, I thought the trucks were all pretty even except the red Chevy. I thought he would have no shot, his truck is nearly stock compared to the rest. He proved me wrong. He got 3rd and would have 2nd if he hadn't broke his winch cable in the frame twister. So you can't say it is way unfair to have buggies vs. street legal trucks. You just need to go to the Cory Dean driving school, "fockin' right foot, eh!". You will know what I mean when you see the video's.

I do think the trucks should have turn signals, brake lights, headlights, and stuff. I think that is definitely a requirement of "street legal". If they enforced lift height, that would be gay.:rolleyes:

Originally posted by rocktop
I would just once like to see a rig in the mag... that has both doors smashed in, the bed half torn off, and the fenders cut up to the hood, with three differn't colors with some rust for a paint job:rolleyes:

And no i am not talking about READER RIGS:p

i'd love to see a good tech article of some tricked out rig with some real character not this show sh!t that drives through a water puddle to make it look cool.... but then again what do i have to say in it

I think they should split the TTC into 2 classes: Homebuilt and Sponsored (call em something else but this is what it essentially comes down to). The homebuilt people are the people who build it (mostly) themselves, and aren't heavily sponsored by a shop or work at one. This would be the average reader, and you'd get to see all sorts of carnage since they wouldn't be quite as pretty as the sponsored rides. Also, a heavy enforcement of inspection rules would be good (except for lift height of course ;) ). For sponsored, open it up to rock buggies and everything that isn't in the other category. This way, the average wheeler feels like they have a chance to get in it, and the sponsored guys get to prove who's really top of the heap. Then, have a runoff between the top 3 homebuilt and the top 3 sponsored in the tank trap to determine the final winner. Also, I don't think they can claim copyright on peoples personal pictures that they take, can they? I somehow think that's not necessarily legal.

The street legal thing is BS without further definition. By definition of street legal in our home states, there are some states that will be hard pressed to field a contender. Stupid NJ lift laws on CJs, etc, are probably 10 times more strict than out west. I'm not complaining, but you can't have a worldwide competition when the participants have different laws & restrictions to follow.

Bryan

Originally posted by Oxjockey
...you can't have a worldwide competition when the participants have different laws & restrictions to follow.
Bryan

Sure you can. It's called TTC. It's happened every year for the last 10. Every year, someone wins and everyone else loses. Every year there are different interpretations of what "street legal" means, seeing how it's different in every state/province.

As a competitor, you know going in what is required, and you build your rig to do as well as possible in those events.

Unless Four Wheeler starts evolving the event to more resemble NASCAR, where all the vehicles are built to a predetermined spec, you're going to have different vehicles. That's the appeal. I don't want to see an offroad competition where all the trucks are the same.

I think Four Wheeler does a pretty good job of keeping the rules down. If they got too strict with the rules, everyone would be whining about that.

I had ZERO problem with any of the competitors trucks, even though some of them (including mine) wouldn't be considered "street Legal" in all areas.

Tim.

I guess my point is this, I can't be spring over and have 35s (legally) in NJ, when that's perfectly legit in neighboring states. It does not set the stage for an even playing field.

And you're right, it all comes down to how strictly this is enforced.

Bryan

Re: confidentiality agreement also applying to internet. This one's gonna be interesting. One easy way around this is I, as a contender, take the pictures, etc. Then give it to my buddy. My buddy posts it as his. I still abided to what I signed, and my buddy didn't sign anything to abide to. So they're gonna have to do more than just this. I can understand why they want to keep things quiet for the magazine, but this ain't gonna cut it.

JR, we drove into town every day in the Blazer. Once or twice, we even had the cops following us. I was a bit worried 'cause we didn't bring our mud flaps or rear bumper hoop, but we weren't bothered. But we also drove pretty sanely, too.

As for being street legal, yeah, I don't think there were too many in the event this year that were. But I don't think anybody was crying over it, either. The problem is where to draw the line when every state/province is different. We can't expect the judges to know the reg's for everywhere. (But some basic things like a rear view mirror, lights - signal, brake, etc., etc. should be checked, enforced, and required if they truely want to have some semblance of legality.) They require a licence plate. That's a good place to draw the line. The next step would be a recent vehicle inspection from that state. Or, if they want it to pass CA laws, then I'd personally want a copy of their laws so I could get the truck ready, and far more time to actually get the truck ready.

As for homebuilt vs. sponsored: I don't think you can go there either, because you'll never be sure where do you draw the line, again. Some trucks will definitely fit one class or another (homebuilt vs. sponsored), but lots - in fact almost all - will be somewhere in the grey area.

I had my fair share of beefs with the event, and I've let the judges know what they are (and it'll be left at that). But that said, IMHO overall they do a pretty decent job given what they have to work with. But I still think they need an event with 5-10 ft (deep) of snow! :)

--Rob

Originally posted by WOLF359


Every year there are different interpretations of what "street legal" means, seeing how it's different in every state/province.



And you have no problem with that? You've clearly not been involved in motorsports for long. The one thing that will piss off competitors & bystanders quicker than anything is INCONSISTENCY. Whatever the rule is, it should be enforced the same way EVERY time. The problem is, it's a bad rule. It can be interpreted 1,000 different ways. If what they're after is limiting the EQUIPMENT to certain specs, then that's what they should put in the rule. But, if the intent is to have basically unlimited modifications, then what really is the point of including "street legal" in the rules? They should drop that rule.


TEX

Originally posted by schuss
I think they should split the TTC into 2 classes: Homebuilt and Sponsored...

:confused: didn't know there was any sponsored contestants. Nobody paid me a dime. Barry (Frog) claimed that Yokohama helped him, who knows. He is an (Jewish) attorney. Those cats make good money.

BTW, California does not require turn signals :D

Originally posted by schuss
I think they should split the TTC into 2 classes: Homebuilt and Sponsored (call em something else but this is what it essentially comes down to). The homebuilt people are the people who build it (mostly) themselves, and aren't heavily sponsored by a shop or work at one. This would be the average reader, and you'd get to see all sorts of carnage since they wouldn't be quite as pretty as the sponsored rides. Also, a heavy enforcement of inspection rules would be good (except for lift height of course ;) ). For sponsored, open it up to rock buggies and everything that isn't in the other category. This way, the average wheeler feels like they have a chance to get in it, and the sponsored guys get to prove who's really top of the heap. Then, have a runoff between the top 3 homebuilt and the top 3 sponsored in the tank trap to determine the final winner. Also, I don't think they can claim copyright on peoples personal pictures that they take, can they? I somehow think that's not necessarily legal.

Grassrootsmotorsports has something they call the $2000 challenge. You build the best budget racer you can for $2000. At the end of the competition, anyone can claim your vehicle for $2000 plus a reaonable builders fee. Check it out at www.grmotorsports.com $2000 may be a bit cheap for wheeling considering the price of tires, but maybe instead of homebuilt, you could call it the $10k challenge or something.

even if your "buggy" is street legal it wont matter... im guessing they will just look at the pics and if it doesnt look close to street legal it wont even make the mag to get voted on.

Originally posted by TEX
The one thing that will piss off competitors & bystanders quicker than anything is INCONSISTENCY.


Sorry, but TTC is not the local mudbog. There are no bystanders, and there are no classes. This is Top Truck. Best truck and driver during that week wins.

TTC by it's very nature is an event to pit vehicles of varying types and technologies against one another so that Four Wheeler can videotape and take pictures of the events to sell magazines...

Four Wheeler does not want it to evolve to the point where every truck is roughly the same.

They wouldn't sell as many magazines.

TTC is great the way it is with open rules. That way if you make the mag for voting you are street legal enough

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ryeguy
I had my fair share of beefs with the event, and I've let the judges know what they are (and it'll be left at that).
You're a class act, Ryan. :cool:

Randii

Originally posted by JR




BTW, California does not require turn signals :D

yes they do after 57:rolleyes:
Turn Signal System

VC#24951.
(a) Any vehicle may be equipped with a lamp-type turn signal system capable of clearly indicating any intention to turn either to the right or to the left.

(b) The following vehicles shall be equipped with a lamp-type turn signal system meeting the requirements of this chapter.

(1) Motor trucks, truck tractors, buses and passenger vehicles, other than motorcycles, manufactured and first registered on or after January 1, 1958.

(2) Trailers and semitrailers manufactured and first registered between December 31, 1957, and January 1, 1969, having a gross weight of 6,000 pounds or more.

(3) Trailers and semitrailers 80 or more inches in width manufactured on or after January 1, 1969.

(4) Motorcycles manufactured and first registered on or after January 1, 1973, except motor-driven cycles whose speed attainable in one mile is 30 miles per hour or less.

The requirements of this subdivision shall not apply to special mobile equipment, or auxiliary dollies.

(c) Turn signal lamps on vehicles manufactured on or after January 1, 1969, shall be mounted not lower than 15 inches.

Amended Ch. 475, Stats. 1975. Effective January 1, 1976.

Originally posted by WOLF359


Sorry, but TTC is not the local mudbog. There are no bystanders, and there are no classes. This is Top Truck. Best truck and driver during that week wins.

I don't even know what you're trying to say with that. Best truck & driver win in any kind of COMPETITION. And that's what this is, a COMPETITION. And once again, unless you REWRITE the rule, you have to enforce it the same this year, as next year, as the year before last, etc. That's ESPECIALLY true of competitions with national exposure. If we can properly enforce rules at a "local mud bog" (had participants from 8 states at my last one BTW) with 100+ race vehicles, then why can't Four Wheeler enforce their rules consistently at an event that's entirely their making? Geeze, they have the luxury of pre-registering every contestant & limiting it to 10 entries, and you're telling me it's okay to flip-flop on the rules? :rolleyes:


TTC by it's very nature is an event to pit vehicles of varying types and technologies against one another so that Four Wheeler can videotape and take pictures of the events to sell magazines...

Again, you really make no point that anyone is contending.


Four Wheeler does not want it to evolve to the point where every truck is roughly the same.

They wouldn't sell as many magazines.

So, what the phuck is up with the "street legal" rule then? Why don't they just call a spade a spade? The point I was making about not requiring registration in "street" classes is that what is street legal in one state (or even one county) is not in another. In order to enforce the "street legal" status with no other rules pertaining to the modification of the vehicle, you WILL make it unfair to the guys who DO have to go through strict emmissions & safety inspections in order to register their vehicles. Basically, the rule would make it impossible for someone to field a competitive entry from anywhere where vehicle registration is a hassle, simply because highly modded rigs from that part of the country WILL NOT BE ABLE TO BE LEGALLY REGISTERED.

What I think you're misunderstanding is that I do NOT have a problem with the way the comp is conducted, nor do I have a problem with the trucks that are IN there. What I have a problem with is the notion that some folks might be EXCLUDED because their local regs are stiffer than other people's regs.

This competition is no longer about "street" trucks (and that's fine). It's just stupid for them to continue to pretend that it has anything to do with "street legal" trucks. Now, the insurance, if they want to enforce that, I can see the logic. But, that's a whole 'nuther subject.


TEX

Tex, I think you're getting too excited about the Four Wheeler rules. It's their event. They can define and enforce the rules as they choose.

And I really don't think they need to rewrite a given rule to change the enforcment of (or decide to actually enforce) it. What has to be done, though, is that things are clear up-front for everyone, and that everyone is treated equally (and consistently) that given year, and that all competitors' questions are answered.

On a different note, Tim is correct, this competition is primarily done to sell magazines. It's a great honor to go, etc., but remember to keep things in perspective. The magazine isn't in the business of putting on Top Truck, or even Bill-Joe-Bob's Mud Bog, they are in the business of selling magazines, and this is one means for them to do just that.

Originally posted by TEX

What I have a problem with is the notion that some folks might be EXCLUDED because their local regs are stiffer than other people's regs.


Again, just because a truck has plates on it doesn't make it street legal. Do we know this? Yep. Do the judges know this? Oh yeah. Does the magazine know this? Definitely. Does it matter? No. Because that is where they've drawn the line in the sand, to them for the event, "street legal" means "licence plate + insurance". They aren't out to police what is actually legal or not, that's not their role. And you can't really draw that line in the sand many other places without opening another whole can of worms. Unless you remove that restriction completely (as you've mentioned), but then we get back to "it's their event, their rules to play in their sandbox".

--Rob

Originally posted by SeaBass44


yes they do after 57:rolleyes:
Turn Signal System


Ok, I lied. I got my info a while back when I got a fix-it ticket. I asked the cop who checked-off my "fixed"car about turn signals. He said they weren't required. Guess he did not know either.

I'll get right on fix'en some turn sigs for the bronco. :D

Gimmie a break. TTC (Tough Truck Competition) isn't a competition, its a mud flinging free for all designed to sell magazines and pictures. They just need to call it a competition to get more than the average 2 toothed, redneck with 44" tires on his lawn tractor to show up. :flipoff2:

Originally posted by twaldher
Gimmie a break. TTC (Tough Truck Competition) isn't a competition, its a mud flinging free for all designed to sell magazines and pictures. They just need to call it a competition to get more than the average 2 toothed, redneck with 44" tires on his lawn tractor to show up. :flipoff2:

Correct-A-Mungo:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

Originally posted by ryeguy
Tex, I think you're getting too excited about the Four Wheeler rules. It's their event. They can define and enforce the rules as they choose.

Well, it's not like I actually have any intentions of participating. I just think that for any "competition", no matter how informal, to have any credibility, they need to be consistent with how they enforce the rules. And if they're not enforcing a rule, and the reason they're not enforcing it is because the rule doesn't fit what they want, why have the rule?



On a different note, Tim is correct, this competition is primarily done to sell magazines.

True of any mag-sponsored event. In fact, it's getting to the point where the mags are only covering their own events, or those sponsored by their advertisers. Remember the short-lived 4XFunFests? For awhile, attending one of those was the ONLY shot you had at seeing your truck in 4-Wheel & Off-Road. Come to our event, or forget seeing your pic in print :rolleyes:


Again, just because a truck has plates on it doesn't make it street legal. Do we know this? Yep. Do the judges know this? Oh yeah. Does the magazine know this? Definitely. Does it matter? No. Because that is where they've drawn the line in the sand, to them for the event, "street legal" means "licence plate + insurance".


Actually, the whole point of this thread was to show that they intended to ask for PROOF of registration beginning next year.


They aren't out to police what is actually legal or not, that's not their role. And you can't really draw that line in the sand many other places without opening another whole can of worms. Unless you remove that restriction completely (as you've mentioned)


Precisely. It's a rule that really can't be fairly enforced. Strike it & you'll be better off.

but then we get back to "it's their event, their rules to play in their sandbox".



True enough, but then this is our little sandbox in which we get to bitch ;)


TEX

Originally posted by TEX
Actually, the whole point of this thread was to show that they intended to ask for PROOF of registration beginning next year [...] but then this is our little sandbox in which we get to bitch ;)

TEX

Actually, I was required to show proof of registration and insurance (one and the same here) when I came to sign in as a competitor this year. Having a licence plate actually wasn't enough. (The editor of 4Wheeler didn't think the Peterson's licence plate tied to the grill was funny even if we did, either.) But they didn't check to see if the registration matched the vehicle (serial #'s), which, in retrospect is kinda amusing, at least to me. :)

And this is such a fun little sandbox too, ain't it! :)

--Rob

Originally posted by twaldher
TTC (Tough Truck Competition)

:confused:

I thing everyone is blowing this hole thing out of proportion. TTC From the start was for the readers of the Mag and there rigs to get together and have a good time. After the ride and drive some of the judges thought it would be allitle safer if some our all the competiters had the option to trailer there rigs to the airport. I fell all the rigs should have to drive to the airport , our else you loss all the points for the acc and brake test. Just my opinion.http://www.sierrarockcrawlers.com/images2/ttc0158.jpg

slim...when was the last time you gave that thing a good coat of wax:p

Originally posted by slim1217
...........From the start was for the readers of the Mag and there rigs to get together and have a good time...........

BullShit, it was to sell masgazines, that's it.

well it seems to me that the only people bitching and really talking bad about TTC are people that havent made it. maybe your all just mad that your rigs werent there?? if anybody should be bitching about the rules it would be the past competitors the felt the got "cheated" in some way or another. but yet they all talk good about it. hmmm.. sounds to me like four wheeler must be doing something right. my truck made the magazine but i didnt make the top 10.. do you hear me bitching that it wasnt fair.. hell no. there were just 10 trucks that were alot more capable than mine. and thats what TTC is all about . peoples different ideas coming together in there rigs and then testing them against others. WHY DONT YOU ALL JUST GET OVER YOURSELVES AND REMEMBER THAT YOUR SHIT STILL STINKS. :D

I wish I had a Top Truck :p

I have nothing intelligent to add on this topic, but...

Slim, how the hell is that Jeep not leaning with the other truck sitting on the side of it? It looks perfectly level?

Those must be stiff ass springs or could there be air bags?

Originally posted by slim1217
I thing everyone is blowing this hole thing out of proportion. TTC From the start was for the readers of the Mag and there rigs to get together and have a good time. After the ride and drive some of the judges thought it would be allitle safer if some our all the competiters had the option to trailer there rigs to the airport. I fell all the rigs should have to drive to the airport , our else you loss all the points for the acc and brake test. Just my opinion.http://www.sierrarockcrawlers.com/images2/ttc0158.jpg

Slim , u ever get that leaky ass beadlock fixed from last years TTC? Robin Hood is tryin' to sell his s -10 hybrid . Oversize guy from last yrs. TTC ! :flipoff2:

The Black chevy is mine. I dont really know why Daves jeep is not leaning it has really soft springs, I just drove up it playing around.
Yes the wheel is finally holding air for know:D

Hey slim how dos the tank trap look?

Hi Abba ,I havent been up the trap for awhile I like to wait till the water level goes down. I already toasted one motor in the trap before. Did you get your rear axle fixed yet?:)

At TTC '01, they didn't check legal paperwork at all.

I did ask (my truck isn't Kalifornia-legal) about how they defined "street legal"... I was told that it has to have a current license plate and insurance. They were basing that on the notion that in order to have a current plate, it'd have to have passed some kind of inspection or similar, and that you can't register something that isn't street legal. Legality in Kali is a different story, and I was told that they didn't care if it was Kali-legal, just that it was legal in its home state.

The reality is, at least until I get pulled over, I can get away with putting a license plate on a gokart, and as long as the VIN number matches and I have a current license, chances are even after I get pulled over, I'll still be driving it home. Gotta love Colorado.

I think if they start requiring a recent "inspection cert" or similar, they'll have some issues... many states (Colorado, Wyoming, Montana...) don't have inspections, and the closest we can get to a recent "inspection cert" is an emissions test/sticker. That doesn't say a lot about legality. If I were to have my truck inspected in the nearest state that *does* have inspections, I'd be screwed, 'cause the nearest one's Utah, and I'm nowhere even remotely close to Utah-legal.

I'm a little curious, if they're going to try and make it more stringent on the "street legal" rule, how they're expecting to enforce it. License, registration, and proof of insurance would be about as far as I'd think they can go, unless they lay out that it has to be street legal to XYZ specs, and include Kali motor vehicle code in the rules, or Utah code, or Nevada code, or...???

I do think it's reasonable to expect that every vehicle be driven to and from every event--that's part of the deal, IMHO. Trailering into and out of camp, I'd expect, but I'd say once it's off the trailer for registration day one, it stays off the trailer till after it's outta the Tank Trap.

I know I've said it before, and I'll say it again... I had a blast, and I'd absolutely do it again... but if they start enforcing laws that I don't have to abide by (Kali MVC) on me in order for me to compete, that's when I personally say "screw it" and toss the competition in the proverbial bin.

As has been stated before... it's not NASCAR. It's not CART. It's not F1. It's Top Truck. Not Top RuleBender, not California Truck, not RCAA. If you want to see who is the best of the best, you have to leave the competition rules fairly wide-open. I think laying out the rules ahead of time, stating that you will have to be able to safely drive on the street for X number of miles, stuff like that, would be very reasonable. But it should be laid out clearly... when competition rules change on registration day, that's out-n-out bull (seen it with other events, never yet with TTC)

Originally posted by slim1217
Hi Abba ,I havent been up the trap for awhile I like to wait till the water level goes down. I already toasted one motor in the trap before. Did you get your rear axle fixed yet?:) Yea, I built a 14 bolt for it. I want to go do the trap this summer.

Another small change:
"...your rig must be capable of being driven legally on the street." No more rock buggies at TTC. [/B][/QUOTE]Well that will pay off for how to make a rig badass and still be street legal. I'm sure some new tricks will be invented there. But I want to see rigs that are built with no limitations for the most part. Not just to see how capable they can be built but how imaginative.:(

Originally posted by sacrebleu


Grassrootsmotorsports has something they call the $2000 challenge. You build the best budget racer you can for $2000. At the end of the competition, anyone can claim your vehicle for $2000 plus a reaonable builders fee. Check it out at www.grmotorsports.com $2000 may be a bit cheap for wheeling considering the price of tires, but maybe instead of homebuilt, you could call it the $10k challenge or something.

GET OUT OF MY HEAD :flipoff2:

Yea, I've been thinking of that too, it even has provisions regarding people who know how to fab versus those who don't. As for sponsored versus homebuilt, I just used it as a general qualifier as I don't know what other way to describe it, "Big vs. small?". Have limits regarding tube frames and rear steer and such to split them up, much like calROCS and others do.

The great part about TTC is that the competitors are picked by those who actually buy the magazine.
Its unfortunate that custom built rock buggies with no turn signals or mirrors get in, but those are the breaks, if you want to avoid seeing these trucks in competition, BUY A MAGAZINE AND SEND IN THE VOTING FORM.

When I voted for my favorites I voted to my personal standards. It had to look like what it was registered as, it had to look tasteful, windshields were important to me, as well as full body panels, I wanted to see room for a weekends worth of wheeling gear and a cooler, a place for a spare tire and a jack are also important to me, some standard equipment such as the aforementioned mirrors and lights, and most of all, I wanted to see trucks that were built and not bought.

Tires that dont even try to fit under the fenders didnt get my vote, custom built full tube anything I also skipped, and if the pickup bed is really just a pair of bedsides with no floor its just getting too far away from being a truck to me.

What do you know, half the trucks I voted for got in , Robs Blazer, Tims Cruiser, Cory's pickup, and Jerrys CJ3A.
Sounds fair enough to me :)

Dan (wow, check out that post count, I rock)