Two-post lift usage question

[PAToyota]

Just thinking through things and came up with a two-post lift question.

From a standpoint of only had experience around lifts at the dealer or the shop I take my vehicles to for state inspection and such, use of a lift is pretty straightforward. You pull the vehicle into the bay, adjust the arms, lift the vehicle up, set the locks, and do your work under the vehicle. Basically, use of the lift is to gain easier access under the vehicle.

But watching things like the KOH builds on here, Xtreme4x4 episodes, and so forth use of a lift gets a bit more "creative" (shall we say). The lift is used to lift a body off the chassis; the vehicle is picked up, a cart is wheeled under, vehicle is lowered, front axle unbolted, vehicle lifted, cart moved away with axle; or any number of operations where you are using the lift to separate parts of the vehicle from the rest of the vehicle.

My question is how much of a risk it is to do this sort of thing or what precautions you have to take to make sure that you don't upset the balance of the vehicle on the lift? Granted, you typically have the vehicle closer to the ground during these operations so you're unlikely to flip the vehicle over or something. But I can theoretically see the possibility of raising something like a Jeep, unbolting the rear D60 axle, and having it tip forward due to all the weight being in the front with the front D60 and smallblock V8.

Is this a valid concern and something that you have to really pay attention to or pay the consequences? Or am I overthinking things?

[kooters94yj]

Problem solved.

[PAToyota]

Beg pardon? How does that help? If you mean to support the rest of the vehicle then the rest of the vehicle can't be raised or lowered with that thing under it.

[PAToyota]

As I said, not enough experience with lifts to trust my judgement on it. With the internet pictures of vehicles that have fallen off lifts due to lifting at improper points and ending up with the vehicle not being balanced, I started wondering how much difference it would make if you started changing the weight balance of the vehicle with what you were removing/adding.

[bluesman2a]

I think the first reply is valid, if a bit abrupt (as only Pirate can deliver).

On mine, I have four of those high stands. If I'm doing something really hanging on one end or the other, I'll put a brace under the axle/frame to keep it in place. I would in no way try to balance a whole vehicle on them, but they are good to prop things up and keep them from falling.

Same thing with axles. If I'm working on suspension, I'll throw some of those high stands under the axle so it either relieves pressure or holds stuff in place. If I'm PULLING an axle, I've got an axle stand I put on moving dollies so I can drop the axle off the springs then roll it out.

When drastically changing weight distribution front to rear, it's also a good idea to brace the opposite end as well.

[PAToyota]

My question about the brace was that if you're using the lift to raise and lower the vehicle to remove something, if there is a problem you end up with the brace wedged under the vehicle - which, I suppose, is much better than dropping the vehicle.

So, basically, get the vehicle into position, brace it, remove what needs to be removed, and remove the brace. If you find the brace is supporting the vehicle with the change in weight, load sandbags onto the other end to balance things out again to the point you can safely remove the brace and lower the vehicle.

[Murfman1967]

The reason I bought my 2 post lift is 4 years ago I was doing a tummy tucker skid plae on my TJ, I had it on 4 Jack stands, under the front and rear axles. I was pulling the tailipe out of the muffler, and I guess I pulled too hard, The Jeep rocked back off the jack stands, pinning my chest under the Warn Gas tank Skid. Somehow I was able to lift the Jeep enough to scurry out. Drove myself to the hospital with 3 broken ribs. When I got back home the first thing I did was buy a lift.

Soooo, I am a bit paranoid now when working under any vehicle. If I am pulling something Major off like a rear axle from a front heavy pickup truck, I wrap a 3 " wratchet strap around the lift arm and frame rail on each side to secure it, along with the muffler stands, (I have 4 of them). I am pretty strong and 6'5" tall so I max out the heigth of the lift with whatever I put on it, and you would be suprised how much a truck can move when I'm layin into a spring bolt or something like that with a 24" breaker bar. Are the straps and stands needed? Probably not, but I'm not going through that again :D

[ScaldedDog]

Where do you get these stands? Googling "tall jack stand" hasn't been helpful, nor has walking through Harbor Freight.

Mark

[bump it or crawl it?]

I just did an engine replacement on a GMC Safari van. The entire body had to be removed from the chassis. It was very heavy in the back end. I used ratchet straps to hold the body to the lift arms. Get the ones with hooks so you can hook them onto something. I guess one could "overthink" just about anything, but in this case it makes sense to be a safety nazi.

Good luck and happy motoring.

[bump it or crawl it?]

Where do you get these stands? Googling "tall jack stand" hasn't been helpful, nor has walking through Harbor Freight.

Mark

A recent issue of crawl mag showed how to build some. Otherwise check with a good autoparts store. They should be able to help you.

[87JeepWrangler]

i dont know that this answers your question specifically, but it may at least relate.

a little after my old man stopped working at a regular garage(20 years ago), the owner, who had been running the shop for over 30 years sold the shop to one of his employees. both the old owner and my old man still do side work in this very shop. anyway, the old owner (with 30+ years experience owning & working daily in the shop) was working on a personal project on the lift off to the side of the shop(the one nobody really used), and was dropping an engine out. once the engine was removed, all of a sudden the entire vehicle became unbalanced enough to start to fall off the lift. i don't know all the details, but they managed to regain control and lower the vehicle back to the ground with only minor damage to property and vehicle.

the point being, no matter how long you've worked around lifts, always double check yourself and what you're doing. always use those tall jackstands, and never take your work for granted.

[roverjohn]

I am pretty strong and 6'5" tall so I max out the heigth of the lift with whatever I put on it, and you would be suprised how much a truck can move when I'm layin into a spring bolt or something like that with a 24" breaker bar. Are the straps and stands needed? Probably not, but I'm not going through that again :D

Why on earth would you attempt to pry your truck off the lift with a 2' breaker bar when a big impact gun would be a much easier and safer way to remove or replace a bolt that size?

[PAToyota]

Seems like the consensus is, like about anything else, use your head and think through things before diving in and getting into trouble and if something seems questionable take some precautions.

Thanks for the input.

[mountainbiker90]

Where do you get these stands? Googling "tall jack stand" hasn't been helpful, nor has walking through Harbor Freight.

Mark

i got mine from northern tools. they were around 70 each. i bought 4. they are used frequently.

[cabletech]

AutoBodyToolmart sells stuff like that:

http://www.autobodytoolmart.com/c-506-floor-jacks-stands.aspx?pagenum=4

Warning, if you order anything from them, even just once or twice, your mailbox will be flooded with catalogs forever... lol.

[D60]

The whole point of the underhoist stands is to prevent the vehicle tipping from SUDDEN unloading of a large part of accy. In theory once you've removed the heavy object you can then see if the vehicle is stable enough to stay balanced, or in the case of something like a transmission you're presumably R&R'ing (emphasis on the second R).

Harbor Freight sells the stands as pictured. I checked out the one just like in the pic in post #2 and deemed it sub-standard even for HF. The base is uber-thin (note: look closely at the base in post #2) and I couldn't figure out how the "fine adjustment" foot pedal was supposed to work (or the floor model did not work properly). I think they were $50 on sale and I didn't see $50 worth of steel there by any stretch of the imagination

These are stupid simple and in fact I have some 1 1/4" acme all-thread arriving from Enco tomorrow as I just got my lift up and running. I'll use used oil-field pipe for the upright and cut some 3/8" plate at work for the base. 3/8" plate is not required but keeping some good weight down low will make the stand more stable and easy to position IMO.

HF does also sell a tripod stand for a bit more coin which looks far more stable, but I still think I can build 'em better for less $

[D60]

Not post padding but I do have a related question:

it seems impossible in many cases to have all 4 arms of a 2-post lift hit the frame at the same time due to how many frames contour. I took up a lot of the difference by moving adapters around, but even so the front arms start lifting a couple inches before the rear arms hit.

I'm using the recommended lift points, and they otherwise make good sense to me and seem to be the only locations I'd lift the vehicle and feel safe about it.

I assume this is normal and not a problem? It seems it would really want to leverage the lift posts until all 4 arms are loaded?

Anyone built infinitely adjustable adapters using all thread or such?

[flatlander757]

Not post padding but I do have a related question:

it seems impossible in many cases to have all 4 arms of a 2-post lift hit the frame at the same time due to how many frames contour. I took up a lot of the difference by moving adapters around, but even so the front arms start lifting a couple inches before the rear arms hit.

I'm using the recommended lift points, and they otherwise make good sense to me and seem to be the only locations I'd lift the vehicle and feel safe about it.

I assume this is normal and not a problem? It seems it would really want to leverage the lift posts until all 4 arms are loaded?

Anyone built infinitely adjustable adapters using all thread or such?

The lifts at my old shop were like that, the feet used really coarse and thick threads to go up and down w/ rubber pads on the feet. Worked really well. I wouldn't personally convert a lift to this unless the company offers something like that for liability reasons.

If one end must be lifted before the other(like with adapters that aren't in small increments) I usually make it lift the front first as that's where the engine is. Personal preference.

[Disturbed]

I know there are some here that do not like Greg Smith Equipment but my experience with them was excellent, although we did deal with two different locations. At any rate I have two of these stands that I use with my 2-post lift.

http://www.gregsmithequipment.com/2-Ton-Heavy-Duty-Tripod-Stand-p/ht58001.htm

I use them every time I put something on my lift, one under the rear and one under the front, makes it very stable and solid when on the lift. Sometimes they need to be moved if the are in the way of what you are working on or need to be used for something under the vehicle (I need at least one more), but with these I feel very comfortable working under the vehicle even if I have to get a little rough with something or I am in the shop alone (which is most of the time).

I dont like the single post ones, they seem too wobbly to me, the tripod type are the better choice in my opinion.

[actionpaintball]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Single-Post-Tall-Jack-Stand-1-500-lb-capacity-New_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ63697QQihZ021QQitem Z310125438255QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

$70-90 to your door

[ScaldedDog]

I know there are some here that do not like Greg Smith Equipment but my experience with them was excellent, although we did deal with two different locations. At any rate I have two of these stands that I use with my 2-post lift.

http://www.gregsmithequipment.com/2-Ton-Heavy-Duty-Tripod-Stand-p/ht58001.htm

I use them every time I put something on my lift, one under the rear and one under the front, makes it very stable and solid when on the lift. Sometimes they need to be moved if the are in the way of what you are working on or need to be used for something under the vehicle (I need at least one more), but with these I feel very comfortable working under the vehicle even if I have to get a little rough with something or I am in the shop alone (which is most of the time).

I dont like the single post ones, they seem too wobbly to me, the tripod type are the better choice in my opinion.

Those look good, and cheap. So you like yours?

I'm going to have an 8000lb Excursion over my head, and don't want to end up as just another greasy spot on the floor. :D

Mark

[kortam]

Where do you get these stands? Googling "tall jack stand" hasn't been helpful, nor has walking through Harbor Freight.

Mark


I seriously just saw one last week while walking through my local Harbor Freight store. Not your nice slim looking lolly column jack type, actually a little more stable looking. http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=41860

[ScaldedDog]

I seriously just saw one last week while walking through my local Harbor Freight store. Not your nice slim looking lolly column jack type, actually a little more stable looking. http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=41860

Looks like I need to go for another walk...

Mark

[Disturbed]

Those look good, and cheap. So you like yours?

I'm going to have an 8000lb Excursion over my head, and don't want to end up as just another greasy spot on the floor. :D

Mark


I like mine alot, and I use them alot. Once there is one on both ends of the vehicle it is VERY solid on the lift. One more would be nice so I dont need to use one of them when holding something up under the rig. The Harbor Freight one looks like it would be good for that. There isnt alot to these as far as something that can be screwed up but I would probably not use the HF one for supporting the vehicle, but for a trans/skidplate/exhaust I am sure it would be fine. Might have to check out my local HF sometime soon.

[actionpaintball]

Mine as well get a small transmission jack and use it like a jack stand...few bucks more and has other practical uses:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Summit-907050-Transmission-Jack-Hydraulic-1-000-lb_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2em20Q2el1116QQ itemZ330309626371QQptZMotorsQ5fAutomotiveQ5fTools

A few bucks off the regular summit price with the website "handling charges"

I almost pulled the trigger on a regular stand-but I think this one will be more practical for me...especially if I throw some nice locking caster wheels under it

[Disturbed]

I have one of those too, dont know if I would want to use it as a jack stand, but it may work. One this you will want to do with that if you are going to use it for transmissions is to change out the "L" bolts that are used for the chain. If the trans moves around it is WAY too easy for the chain to slip off. I replaced the "L" bolts with eye bolts and use removeable chain link to hook the chain to the eye bolts. $5 at the hardware store and it works great, also keeps the chain from getting misplaced when you are not using it. There was no way to attach the chain to the trans jack with the "L" bolts. Its nice to be able to pull and install transmissions by yourself. I love mine but it doent see as much use as the jack stands.

[Finaltheorem47]

to make it short, no I have never felt that a vehicle is unstable. The lift usually spans 2/3 of the vehicle and the mass is too large. Now lets say you were building a buggy and all you have is a 400lb cage sitting on your lift and you try to put an engine in the rear, that might be a problem.


Our Excursion is 9,000lbs and its the only one that scares me abit because you see the lift flex when it trys to lift it up lol, but lifts are tested with 3x their weight up and down 50 times or so I herd so it should be able to take it.

[Murfman1967]

Why on earth would you attempt to pry your truck off the lift with a 2' breaker bar when a big impact gun would be a much easier and safer way to remove or replace a bolt that size?
You would think, but there are many bolts that I cant even get my Impact wrench on due to clearance issues.

[actionpaintball]

You are not using the jack stand as a jacking device (in most cases)...the purpose is to prevent suspension jump/flex when wrenching. People who have not worked under a lift may not get it...but its very handy to add a "5th leg" at the front or rear bumper- or frame section.

[OKMudn]

Our Excursion is 9,000lbs and its the only one that scares me abit because you see the lift flex when it trys to lift it up lol, but lifts are tested with 3x their weight up and down 50 times or so I herd so it should be able to take it.

I have also experienced this flex with my F250 crew cab diesel. First time I put it up on the lift it concerned me until I realized that it was only flexing in the upper portion of the lift and not near the base at all. Now I just pull the truck a little farther forward and it lifts very evenly with no flex.

Common sense goes a long way in using a lift correctly and most importantly, safely!

[D60]

I have also experienced this flex with my F250 crew cab diesel. First time I put it up on the lift it concerned me until I realized that it was only flexing in the upper portion of the lift and not near the base at all. Now I just pull the truck a little farther forward and it lifts very evenly with no flex.

Common sense goes a long way in using a lift correctly and most importantly, safely!

I haven't yet noticed my columns flexing but I have noticed the arms flex. I think a lot of this is due to my "extra wide" drive thru clearance, so the arms have to be extended further to reach the frame. I wonder if the "extra wide" arms are beefier than "standard width" arms? Bend Pak in this case.

[Drummer79]

I'd say the odds of flipping it are slim, although I was worried about it too. here's my jeep sitting on jack stands as close to teh spring hangers as i could get them. I could climb on the front bumper with no problem, and having an axle under one end and not the other never flipped it. I was worried the engine would be enough to tip it but i guess not.
http://wrangler94.jeeps-offroad.com/jeeppics/DSC00270.JPG

[D60]

These are stupid simple and in fact I have some 1 1/4" acme all-thread arriving from Enco tomorrow as I just got my lift up and running. I'll use used oil-field pipe for the upright and cut some 3/8" plate at work for the base. 3/8" plate is not required but keeping some good weight down low will make the stand more stable and easy to position IMO.

Here's a shot of what I built. I wound up using 1/2" plate for the base 'cause it was readily avail. I cut the bases at work on the plasma table just 'cause I could. Bases are 15" square based upon nothing scientific.

I used 3' of all thread per stand to get me within the range of adjustment advertised on the production stands. I built two stands w a short channel top, and two with a round top, reasoning there would be times when rectangular or round interface would be preferable

Cost per stand:
Base: $15
Used 2 3/8 pipe: $4
1 1/4 acme all thread: $26
Acme nut: $7
Misc scrap: free

Total: $52

I prefer the flat base as it takes up less room and you can step on it vs a tripod base like the better production stands

[rokdMJ]

Under the 2 post at the shop I work at shop, when we remove axle housings from vehicles, we support the opposing end of the vehicle with a tall jack, and use a transmission jack to remove the axle from the desired end of the vehicle. We always use a jack under the rear of Pick Up trucks and Suburbans and the like.

For instance, to remove the front axle, we support the rear of the vehicle with a jack, and then proceed with removal.

Hope this is helpful.

[nissancrawler]

here's my jeep sitting on jack stands as close to teh spring hangers as i could get them.

Jesus Christ that picture scares me.

Anyway, one thing I was going to mention was that when you first lift the vehicle, raise the tires just off the floor, and give the vehicle a good shaking at both ends before you put it 6' in the air.

[dopeassjackson]

Here's a shot of what I built. I wound up using 1/2" plate for the base 'cause it was readily avail. I cut the bases at work on the plasma table just 'cause I could. Bases are 15" square based upon nothing scientific.

I used 3' of all thread per stand to get me within the range of adjustment advertised on the production stands. I built two stands w a short channel top, and two with a round top, reasoning there would be times when rectangular or round interface would be preferable

Cost per stand:
Base: $15
Used 2 3/8 pipe: $4
1 1/4 acme all thread: $26
Acme nut: $7
Misc scrap: free

Total: $52

I prefer the flat base as it takes up less room and you can step on it vs a tripod base like the better production stands
those things look real nice. do you think you need gussets?

[D60]

those things look real nice. do you think you need gussets?

Not at all. They're only meant to be loaded straight down, virtually no side load. Plus they really only need to support a few hundred lbs to balance the vehicle.

How much is 2 3/8" pipe w 3/16" wall good for in compression? :D

If you've got a vehicle on a 2 post lift which would cause these stands to need gussets, you've got much bigger problems, ie the vehicle is already falling off the lift.

Again if you look at the production stands mentioned early in the thread (or put your hands on one at your local HF) these are light years more heavy duty at the same price, plus I get to build my own shit and use at least some recycled materials.

[cabletech]

Jesus Christ that picture scares me.

Ditto. I've never had the nerve to climb under a vehicle supported only by corner jackstands (no wheels). The base on them is quite narrow, and they don't seem to require much to go sideways. And it's even scarier in that pic that they're on wood, and not on cement.

I do know guys that have had their 4-corner jackstand supported vehicles fall over. I also knew one guy that was killed when his car fell on him.

[adampfisters]

I seriously just saw one last week while walking through my local Harbor Freight store. Not your nice slim looking lolly column jack type, actually a little more stable looking. http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=41860

By the way, I use this stand and it is beefy. Not just good for HF beefy, this thing is built and rigid.

[Mud Slayer 2.0]

if ever questionable balance is a problem.. i usually Wrap a Heay ratchet strap around the frame and lift arms.. I have to do this on the rear almost everytime i lift my S10 on a hoist since there's almost NO weight in the back