I slept on it, so this isn't a heated outburst. I hope this isn't taken as sour grapes either, I chose to return my rig to stock wheelbase to be eligible for the Stock/Mod class, it's doesn't work in this configuration, and my poor (5th place) finish is the result. I did break and winch the last 2 obstacles, but regardless, I am sharing my take on the differences of the events, not my finish.

I expect to be challenged or flamed, so bring it awwwwwwwwwnn! And BTW Bob, I expect to be banned from future events, including MUDSTOCK, hehehehe!

I am spoiled, my previous experiences at Erocc have rasied my expectations for the way events are conducted. Fueled by the statements on the Sports in the Rough web site about "creating the comps", I hoped for a well run, organized (Hazel) event. Not gonna happen, ever. Don't misunderstand this comment as a reflection on the many volunteers (thank you for your time and efforts), or the host location, Badlands which was rented as the venue, and NOT involved with the course or any event related stuff.

Where do I start?

How about 17 vehicles entered as of the drivers meeting, Friday night. Maybe 4 of of us with some kinda relationship with the location. Myself (an hour away), Mike Hope (local) with a brand new Trophy rig that was wheeled Friday for the first time, Gordon Gilchrest (Michigan) with a Scorpion that has been wheeled but no comp experience, and the Sniper (sorry didn't meet the owner/driver, that was once Troy's rig. Otherwise everyone else travelled great distances or were regulars on the event schedule. Maybe the many other people with capable rigs around the area had "less" hope for a good event.

Eroccs on the other hand has attracted 30+ rigs to the last 2 events. None from the far West, but a much better showing. How many are building for next year, I'll bet it's more than the 17 that showed for the ProRock event !

Spectators, how about there weren't any! After seeing all the spectators at Erocc, the 150 or so that showed for ProRocks was so obvious! You think there are less people interested in rock crawling 300 miles north of Jellico? Hahahahaha.

Sponsor decals, so we had to slap some decals on our rigs. Big deal you say. Guess it seems silly for me to advertise stuff I don't run, or get paid to advertise. Somebody got paid to mandate that I run a decal of a dude with a ring gear halo, hope his phone is ringing today with inquiries for those Cruiser products he sells!

No competing series decals allowed, ie Erocc's in my case. Now I see why! Good for you Shuppee, (respectfully) wish he needed me to compete as bad as he needs you!

Classifications, stock/mods vs Legends, I understand the rules are the same for everyone. If I was building a rig today for this class at ProRock I wouldn't have chosen a Cruiser with a 90" wheelbase and leaf springs! To describe the intent as what a likely trail rig would be, is bogus. How many tj's with Atlas's and high pinion 60's do you wheel with on 35"s? I am only about $10k from being competitive, hahahahahaha. In Legends I can be competitive with some more wheelbase, might break some stuff (stock axles and tcase) but I don't have to return my rig to some pre trail rig condition to enter.

Organization, is that a word, or a ignored concept? Guess if I was running a comp, I would take that sponsor money or some of the money saved by not feeding us an advertised dinner and buy some more cones! I might have also told all the judges where the next obstacle was, or better yet if their's was the last one!The only thing that I encountered that was printed or discussed at the drivers meeting regarding schedule, was the departure from the parking lot at 8:30 am both days. Tech/registration opened when they decided to open it, and the events didn't start each day at 7:30 as posted on the web site. Hey Trailkeepers, awesome job providing a MAP of the obstacles in your PROGRAM distributed to all competitors!

Obstacles/Stages, maybe these should be doable by at least some of the competiors! It rained you say, lots, oh maybe 6"s in 36 hours. Don't let that keep you from placing the gates in some dissoriented positions, within 7" wider than at least one of the competitiors (Russ Hogan's rotary powered) rig, and expect them to be cleared in 6 minutes. At Eroccs the courses flow from the start to finish without zig zagging back and forth across the same rock or ledge.

Scoring/Penalties, maybe my lack of West coast style comps caused my surprise at the gate penalty of pointing out. Combined with the placement and conditions this dotted most competitors with big "0"'s on their scorecard. At Eroccs it is a penalty, but not a goose egg, reminder to self, cones are to be avoided! I found the adding gates score after the obstacle to be a bit confusing also, especially in regards to my understanding of the rear steer useage. I was told that if rear steer WAS used to clear gates, but the onstacle was not completed the penalty for rear steer was not imposed. Meaning as I understand it, that you can rear steer thru gates and get credt for them without the penalty if you don't complete the obstacle. Maybe this is not the case, I don't have rear steer.

Entry Fees and Prize $$$, The $350 was steep compared to the Erocc's entry of $75. However I was pleasantly surprised to get $200 for my 5th place finish. That is more than the 2nd place money at the last Erocc's in Legends. The competitors plaque, hats, shirts, dash plaque were cool, but for an event that suggested BIG DOG payouts, not necessary.

I'm about done, as much because I don't want to nit pick as I don't anticipate ever wanting to attend another event put on by them. As I end this I want to be very clear that the Badlands, their staff, Troy and Lisa had nothing to do with this event or any of the things I pointed out. This is a great place to wheel, and (I am assuming this) can't imagine they are in too big of a hurry to rent their fine park out and have people think they are "part of the problem"!

Lastly, the volunteers that heard the comments, took some abuse, and generally had to feel like they (or this post) were directed at them, we really appreciate your efforts at these events! Thank YOU all!

Trailkeepers ROCK!

Pretty well put Mike. I was thoroughly disappointed in the cone placement for both classes on Sat. For the legends it was only an excercise in how to use a winch. At least the competitors were told when this thing was supposed to start, the spectators were left out in the cold on that one. It was rather surprising to see how disorganized the event was considering the organizer has setup numerous events. Oh well, live and learn I was just glad to be there and see the folks that have enough balls to come out and compete.

Easy-(rant off)

I am concerned about the first-time spectators/competitors that attended this event who might think this is the way all rock crawling events are run and won't come back to another event because of it.

That is not good for the sport.

Originally posted by SpaceGhost

Classifications, stock/mods vs Legends, I understand the rules are the same for everyone. If I was building a rig today for this class at ProRock I wouldn't have chosen a Cruiser with a 90" wheelbase and leaf springs! To describe the intent as what a likely trail rig would be, is bogus. How many tj's with Atlas's and high pinion 60's do you wheel with on 35"s? I am only about $10k from being competitive, hahahahahaha. In Legends I can be competitive with some more wheelbase, might break some stuff (stock axles and tcase) but I don't have to return my rig to some pre trail rig condition to enter.


I dunno man, this part sounds :crybaby::crybaby2: to me. The guy who won this event (Jeff Mello) has less into his whole rig than you probably have into your axles. :p

why do you think there were only 17 rigs entered in a hazel event when other promoter are getting full feilds? the word is out in the compitition community.

I put this in another post

*****************************************

Troy and the crew from the Badland's were great. The facility has awesome promise for a great event. Thank you to ALL the volunteers for making it happen.

Now about the Pro Rock event put on by Bob Hazel- It sucked. Worst event I've ever been to, participated in, seen in any manner (TV, video, etc). They pull close to 3000 spectators at ERoCC and 30-40 rigs. This guys been around for MUCH longer and can only get 17 rigs and about 200 spectators, you tell me why? Two obstacles on the first day that no one completed (one no one got though the fist gate). One on the second day where no one completed it past the second gate. Another obstacle that only two got through the first set of gates after they were reset at a different spacing (a rock was moved and the cone was relocated inconsistent with original placement). Three more obstacles that only one person completed. The course design sucked and there was no attempt to pre-run any obstacles by Hazel or his crew. Bob Hazel and "sports in the rough" just did a terrible job. If Pro Rock is the stuff that you're used to in an event, I'm sorry to hear that. Also sorry to the few specators who were there, you didn't get your moneys worth.

****************************************


To all the competitors on this board from any location- ERoCC will spoil you. It is worth the trip, it is worth the time, it is worth the modest entry fee ($75/event). I'll do a little comparison of the two because I'm tired and it's Monday :flipoff2: Also I think if more competitors realized everything ERoCC has to offer us they would flock, making it as popular as any major comp circuit (RCAA, etc)

Refreshments:
ERoCC- Local church groups selling dogs, burgers, water, soda all at low prices ($1 a dog, $1 water, .$75 soda). All profits going to their church and youth groups. Multiple locations.
Pro Rock & Bob Hazel- Nothing. (Troy and the Badlands crew gratiously opened a tent and sold water on their own accord for cheap prices. They did this just to be helpful to the competitors and spectators, but shouldn't of had to)

Spectating:
ERoCC- Signs along main roads to competition. Ample parking. Parking lot withing 100 yards of competition area. Local youth group directing parking area. Handicapped shuttle from parking lot. Fire Dept. watering down roads to prevent dust. Obstacles within close vicinity of each other for easy viewing (100 ft or so). Roped off areas that are dangerous for spectators. Announcer on a PA system as well as broadcasting on an FM frequency. Plenty of port-o-johns literally within feet of the comp area. Refreshments available easily.
Pro Rock & Bob Hazel- 2 signs at the parking area that were apparently put up late in the morning. No one directing that I saw. A detached site for day one that was hard to find and the gate people didn't have directions to (nice organization). Spectators roaming free across obstacles. No announcer, no posted numbers for obstacles, obstacles were set-up hundereds of yards apart and did not flow from one to the next.

Competitor Scoring:
ERoCC- Standard scoring system where you start at zero and are assesed penalties as they are incurred. Maximum of 40 points per attempted obstacle, with the largest navigation penalty (besides winching, taking out trees/boundaries) being 10 points. Competitors are familiar with this and do not need explanation. Also you are able to continue through the obstacles when incurring the navigation penalty because it is less than the allotted maximum. Ride-alongs for bonus points.
Pro Rock & Bob Hazel- Different scoring where you start with 20 points and subtract for penalties and add for gates passed. Maximum navigation penalty is 20 points for cone contact ending the obstacle. Previous points earned for gates are retained on a point out. Rear steer is only penalized if the course is completed (as SG pointed out). So you can use rear steer 4 times to get 4 gates, hit a 5th gate, get your points for the previous 4 gates and not incur the rear steer penalty (negative) points. No ride-alongs for bonus.

Course Design:
ERoCC- A team led by an experienced wheeler and competition spotter sets up courses which are partially pre-run to assess difficulty (if I'm wrong on this please correct me). Obstacles flow from one to the other very well and the terrain is utilized effectively, IMO. Obstacles are set so that there are certain obstacles favoring different rigs (wide, short, long, etc).
Pro Rock & Bob Hazel- It is very important that a course designer has real experience. In the words of my favorite french driver Kenneth Shupae "Anyone can design a course that's impossible for everyone". Whoever set up the courses at this event did not know what they were doing. The Badlands staff toured the course designers indicating how they run the terrain and what might present challenges (again something they did not have to do but were nice enough to help with). Their suggestions were not followed and the courses were designed terribly. Impossible obstacles (literally, because no one made them) and often zig zagging from one end of the competition area to the next to get to obstacles.

Judging:
ERoCC- Judges are all volunteers who are trained and knowledgable about all the rules. Judges are repeat volunteers who have experience with previous competitions in the area. I honestly know 90% of the ERoCC judges by their faces. There is always a radio nearby in case of a questioned rule/call. I have never seen a problem not receive immediate attention.
Pro Rock & Bob Hazel- Judges are all volunteers (which is great). They are different at each location. It was consistently hard to get definitive responses and that is due to lack of instruction on judging. This instruction should be provided by the sanctioning body. Not knocking the volunteers, just knocking the lack of info/training you guys were provided with.

Actual Competition:
ERoCC- Straps allowed for spotters, rock stacking allowed, ride-alongs for bonus points, gates worth bonus (negative in this case) points, standard scoring system to follow. Spectators are cleared before an obstacle is begun if they are in the way. Very exciting for spectators IMO. Judges are ample, often with one only responsible for two gates in a course.
Pro Rock & Bob Hazel- Wacked out scoring system to try and keep up with ("Bob has looked at a standard scoring system, but he likes to be different"), can't touch the rig with a strap, rock stacking is allowed, no ride-alongs for bonus, gates worth bonus points (positive in this case). Spectators often stand in the middle of obstacles and walk across due to lack of judges/staff. Judges were few, often responsible for covering multiple obstacles and lots of ground.



That's about all I can think of. I know some of you West coast guys think of coming out here. I think you should (to get your asses handed to you :flipoff2:). I just want to pervay my opinion of what you will encounter to help you make a good choice of which comp to attend. If you want to come out East to wheel a series or event, hit ERoCC. Check out their web site for info and a very professional format. ERoCC is also non-profit, so no one is getting rich off you (except for the youth groups of Jellico area, which I'm happy about). Proceeds are also donated to local fire/rescue crews and the Trailkeeper's Foundation who is fighting to keep trails open for US.

IMO the days of there even being a Pro Rock series are numbered. The competitors (and I mean everyone I talked to) were not happy with this event or the series. For one reason or another they were there, but it wasn't just to support Pro Rock. Sponsorship will fall by the wayside if the minimal spectators and rigs continue, after that I don't expect it'll hang around.




*I am not an ERoCC pimp, I just call them like I see them. Also this is so no one is swayed away from our sport like trailkeeper mentioned earlier. My fingers hurt:flipoff2:

well put gentlemen....couldn't have phrased it more tactfully and correctly than that.

Some additions.....Hazel knew the Badlands was going to be selling their shirts and water at the event, and asked that ProRock shirts and their soda was also sold by the same people out of the same location. The soda cases were apparrently opened to find about 1/2 had exploded. Nice. He never did bring out the ProRock shirts either, no major deal tho. (My wife was one of the ones selling water....should've taken that kiss bigdude! She was pretty pissed at Hazel at how rude he was towards them. Odds are, she's gonna ban me from his stuff in the future, which is fine with me.)

Did anyone beyond me notice the two from ProRocks sitting in their running Ford dually diesel about 15' from stage 5 on Sunday, enjoying their A/C?? 'nuf said on that....

I hope to get down to an ERoCC event someday....it's only about a 12 hour drive for me....but better that than dealing with the Hazel crap again.

Also sorry to the few specators who were there, you didn't get your moneys worth.
I wasn't there, but I'll draw on the past three years of experience covering events, including Bob's Sports-in-the-Rough events....

SITR doesn't even TRY to get spectators there -- generally, there's no gate, no cover, nothing. Looks to me like he's purposefully trying to avoid spectators. They are liability risks, certainly, perhaps with more total exposure than potential profit. SITR may do other things differently than other organizations, but geeze, why beat 'em up for not doing something that they're not even trying to do?

FWIW, the other comments ring true. Other organizations seem to go further out of their way to attract competitors...

Randii

Originally posted by camo
why do you think there were only 17 rigs entered in a hazel event when other promoter are getting full feilds?

You should spread the knowledge back East :D. I would've gone anyway for my special lady shupae, but it might have save some a lot of time and money

Craig Stumph with UROC has done a few things that have REALLY made the whole Unlimited/Legend relationship a lot more on the level. This last event in Vernal was the first time they used the Legend Line Bypass, which went pretty well in my opinion. The idea is that there is an easier alternate line on some obstacles(4 out of 12 at Vernal), that the Legend competitors can take, at no penalty. If the competitor takes the Unlimited line and does not point or time out, he get -10 from his final score for the obstacle. We ended up taking 2 Legend Lines on purpose, one on accident(I'll explain in a minute), and the Unlimted line on the other.

On the one we accidently took the Legend Line, the Unlimited line was set, and then they just added another line of cones 5 feet or so off to the right to widen the obstacle for the Legend Line. If you chose the LL, they elimitated the inside row of cones. In a situation like this, you can try the Unlimited line, and if you get out of control(big steep face) and clip a cone on the right, you are now in the Legend Line, where you would normally get dinged 10 for the cone, but since you attempted the Unlimited line, you get -10 if you complete the obstacle. Probably sounds kinda confusing, but it adds a new dimension of strategy for the Legend competitors that I really liked. You can even try the Unlimited line a few times, and then back off and take the Legend line at no penalty, except fot the points you accumulated trying the Unlimited line.

In Cedar City a few months ago they had a few Legend Lines, but it was like a 20 point penalty to take it, and when it's only a 15 point penalty to winch, you could save 5 points by winching the Unlimited line. Needless to say it was a Legend winch-fest. If you just strung out the winch on most of the obstacles, you could still place in the top ten pretty easily(hell, I in essence missed the entire first day, and still came in 12th out of twenty-something). In vernal there was only one obstacle that I saw anybody string a cable on, and I only saw 3 or 4 people make it all weekend, even with the winch(Unlimited included).

Honestly, I'm not totally familiar with exactly what 'sanctioned' means, but it seems that it would be beneficial for all UROC 'sanctioned' events to use UROC rules, which I gather that they do to some degree. Especially if this Supercrawl thing is going to be an annual event. I know the discussion is about Prorock, not Erocc, but it's just something I've thought about a few times, and wondered about. I'm sure Craig is still trying to work out the best way to run this thing.

One thing that Craig did in Vernal that I think ought NOT be repeated was the Widowmaker. It was an obstacle that neither Craig nor any of the staff could climb previous to the competition, so they made it obstacle #13, which was optional. If you make it without timing or pointing out, you get -10 on your event score. Well, I think everybody but maybe 1 or 2 that tried it made it, including at least 1 Legend competitor, probably 10-15 total. The thing that really sucked was that you could only run the obstacle on the day that you ran obstacles 7-12. We pulled 7-12 on day one, and we really didn't want to break all our crap on an optional obstacle, so we declined. The first day there were probably 5 that tried it, and, what do you know, the second day almost everybody tried it. Kinda sucks to leave that kinda thing up to luck of the draw as far as what day you ran 7-12.


Anyway, I haven't been watching all the other series real closely because I've just been competing in UROC. But I think I will hit ProRocks in Vernal in 2 weeks just to check it out. The "one cone and you're out" thing kinda has me interested. I saw that rule a while ago and thought it was kinda goofy.

Okay, I'll go find something to do now.

Originally posted by Lance


I dunno man, this part sounds :crybaby::crybaby2: to me. The guy who won this event (Jeff Mello) has less into his whole rig than you probably have into your axles. :p

U think? I got longfields in stock 4.11 Cruiser axles, front and rear, gm disks in the back. Guess you haven't seen his "brand new aluminum tub"? Sorry if you think I was referencing the competitors, but I don't know anyone personally that has an Atlas and runs 35" ers on what they describe as a "trail rig".

I'll shut up and wait for the smack down!

Okay, all but the first 2 posts showed up while I was typing my reply, LOL. I'll read the rest, and ignore my post if it is redundant:flipoff2:

Originally posted by SpaceGhost


U think? I got longfields in stock 4.11 Cruiser axles, front and rear, gm disks in the back. Guess you haven't seen his "brand new aluminum tub"? Sorry if you think I was referencing the competitors, but I don't know anyone personally that has an Atlas and runs 35" ers on what they describe as a "trail rig".

I'll shut up and wait for the smack down!

Oh, my mistake then. I thought you just purchased new Dynatrac axles.

Originally posted by Lance


Oh, my mistake then. I thought you just purchased new Dynatrac axles.

I was surprised and perplexed at your prior post. I caused the confusion by hijacking badassjeepguys axle pics and claiming I found them by a barn. I will be more careful in the future, good memory btw.

:cool2:

To further expound on my points, it was the organizer, not any other element that left these opinions on me. I suspect the West coast guys, who can't even be home yet, weren't any happier than the rest of us. Except that they have a few more of the series under their belts and may accept it better with time.

As far as equipment, the stock/mod is a TJ class. Get one or stay home! Now to try and pry that Cruiser from my possesion, come awn, before I change my mind.......................

Originally posted by Lance
The guy who won this event (Jeff Mello)

I'll finish that for you

- has a damn good spotter and a lot of experience behind the wheel. :D

As far as equipment, the stock/mod is a TJ class. Get one or stay home!

This is also true (for the most part) in CalRocs as well, with the exception of the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th place positions which are Cody Wagner, Jeff Mellow, and Ron Kirby. Which are 2 CJ-7's and a flat-fender.

Mello told me one of the Western series also required a full tub, inner fenders and very minimal rocker trimming for the stock/mods. This is kinda cool.

Wow, neat to hear the comparo. Now I am twice as thankful for ERoCC!

J. J.

Obstacles/Stages, maybe these should be doable by at least some of the competiors! It rained you say, lots, oh maybe 6"s in 36 hours. Don't let that keep you from placing the gates in some dissoriented positions, within 7" wider than at least one of the competitiors (Russ Hogan's rotary powered) rig, and expect them to be cleared in 6 minutes. At Eroccs the courses flow from the start to finish without zig zagging back and forth across the same rock or ledge.

Gotta agree with you there. When I spotted for Jaffer in ProRocks here in Farmington a couple months ago I was so confused by some of the layouts that even walking them a couple of times Iwas still confused. In fact on one we lost points because they had you going back and forth on the same damn thing so many times we got totally confused. Not impressed with their show. BTW, at the women's competition last year they trashed the Rock Garden, even cut down some trees, and then left us a big mess to clean up, both at the Garden and with the BLM.

Originally posted by landuseorc


Gotta agree with you there. When I spotted for Jaffer in ProRocks here in Farmington a couple months ago I was so confused by some of the layouts that even walking them a couple of times Iwas still confused. In fact on one we lost points because they had you going back and forth on the same damn thing so many times we got totally confused. Not impressed with their show. BTW, at the women's competition last year they trashed the Rock Garden, even cut down some trees, and then left us a big mess to clean up, both at the Garden and with the BLM.

The biggest difference between Erocc's course at Jrocc and SITR's courses are the long term grooming and efforts put forth by the members and volunteers of the TrailKeepers. Yes I hear Darryl drives this hard working group relentlessly, but the ongoing efforts to provide the course and spectator areas are the biggest difference. I don't see how you can show up a day before the event (ignoring the best resource, Troy in this case) and set up a course. They failed to make use of many great spots in the quarry (day 2's activities) while cramming cones into small areas.

Am I the only one that noticed or knew that if your did clear the section along the wall at the banks of the pond (previous expert trail), that you would have a greater challenge getting back to the next gate. I mean the trail after the gates was harder than the obstacle, and very likely to get a few wet! Or maybe that out of laziness they just stuck cones on the last 2 obstacles, both just hillclimbs? The second to last one the harder line IS to the right, the obstacle was setup backwards for Trophy and stocks. Then you head around to the climb up the wall from the quarry, that all of the stock rigs made the bonus gate, and in under a minute?

I assume the other respected promoters mentioned in these threads also spend time in the area to set the course, not show up and drop cones.

Originally posted by SpaceGhost
but I don't know anyone personally that has an Atlas and runs 35" ers on what they describe as a "trail rig".

Not a competitor, but I'll throw my hand up and introduce myself, I run 33's and an Nv4500/Atlas on my junk. I call it a "trail rig". :flipoff2:

BTW, good write-up on the event, folks, well thought-out, shows the good (what little there is) and the bad. It's also a statement on where our sport came from (Bob, and the laissez faire/fawk-it approach) and where it's going (with more organized, spectator/competitor friendly events).

I noticed that too Mike, on the old Experts. I mentioned to someone that I felt sorry for anyone who cleared them all and continued on since the "easier" line past the Z gate was underwater and the high line was just silly off-camber. It was interesting watching the one team that cleared that section work their way thru the balance of the trail....no points given...lol

My calls to Troy earlier in the week, and even on Thurs, he had no idea what ProRocks was needing or planning. Our small group of assistants pretty much had that short Fri morning meeting (you were there....cheater....lol) and then went to the offsite to see what was required. Chris and Gail and some of the Badlands staff stenciled and markered in the signs Fri afternoon for directions and such.

no wonder Chris gave me permission to get stupid with my Cruiser after this weekend...hehe...still doped on fumes!

Originally posted by bluesman2a


Not a competitor, but I'll throw my hand up and introduce myself, I run 33's and an Nv4500/Atlas on my junk. I call it a "trail rig". :flipoff2:


Sweet, welcome to the thread. Not a common combo, but a great one all the same. Now get out here and mix it up with us!

Originally posted by Lance


I dunno man, this part sounds :crybaby::crybaby2: to me. The guy who won this event (Jeff Mello) has less into his whole rig than you probably have into your axles. :p

I will have to say that you are right on that one. Talk about as stock as you can get. I couldnt beleive what he did with that thing!

Originally posted by SpaceGhost
Mello told me one of the Western series also required a full tub, inner fenders and very minimal rocker trimming for the stock/mods. This is kinda cool.

I think it is cool also... NeuRoc Mod/Stock class is just like that... I will be getting some 35's and me and my 5,000 lb Daily Driver will get it!

No hydro asst.

No extended WB past 2"

Mod/Stock is a great class for me!:D

Space Ghost, (FYI only, not picking on you) Mello has less than 10k in that thing. It actually is/was his wife's rig. The body makes it look fancy but it's the same rig underneath. You should come out here Atlas's aren't that uncommon I sold 4 in the last 2 weeks, all for trail rigs. In fact I sold ChokU his and it's a trail rig.

Calrocs requires full tubs on stock mods. and not much hacking. I like this idea as it keeps the rigs looking like real vehicles, not competition only rigs. I like the idea of the stock mod/legend class being what you would likely see on the trail for a semi dual purpose rig.



My .02 on SITR/ Pro rock events, I have run those events for quite some time now (except this season, I believe a sponsor didn't like RE long arm kits so we got banned). I have seen numbers of competitors go down, I have seen decently organized events, and some less so. I have been to other sanctioning bodies events.

I like that they have a stock mod class.

I don't want to get too into the politics of sponsors vs. rules vs. certain competitors are encouraged not to show up. Suffice it to say some promoters I know for sure are stand up guys, some I'm not so sure. Read between whatever lines/ take it as you want, I'm done with that rant.

Bob has NEVER wanted spectators untill sponsors/ magazines started talking about it. He has now realized he needs them I thought.

In my limited to only a couple of organizations different courses I have found the SITR courses to be more drivable. I know that other sanctioning body judges have told us the person laying out the course said he knew we couldn't make certain obstacles. (we did)

The purse issues of ProRock are a joke, Competitors aren't even getting the gift certificates for items they won. I'm not sure if this is because of SITR screw ups or sponsors but WTF? Plus there's no doubt Bob is making his living doing his events, he should be able to make $ but the other guys are doing with less, giving more. Is it unfair for Bob to make money? no Maybe he shouldn't try to do things so different? I know a certain west coast promoter guy that's happy to break even for now. I'm hoping he makes tons more in the future 'cause I'm looking to help him disperse some.


As far as the rules I'm more used to the you are out if you hit a cone thing, it's no biggie it's just different. Not good different, just different. On a personal level the no long arm thing/ no longer springs on a Toyota truck thing I think is bullsh*t. It's not helping the class put drivers behind rigs. In fact because of this Matt and I don't run ProRock, and now My wife won't be running the womens. I couldn't get a legal rig done in time (Michelle), RE long arm Matt & I. We are building Michelle a Jeep soon I'll be sure not to run a RE long arm kit on it. Not anything better about it in competition, with little 35" tires it hangs up as much as it helps. You do have to draw the line somewhere I just don't think an over the counter mass produced lift kit, or a typical/ most have it modification (toyota's) is where it needs to be drawn. No biggie I'm building one to fit the rules. As if we know what they are going to be for next year. :rolleyes:

iv'e attended 2 boob hazel events, shits in the rough is what it oughta be called, and they suck ass!!!:mad: you will never see me at a another event with his name or logo attached to it! he is definitley in it just for the money. he was actually a trail leader for the events i attended (ROSSER ROUNDUP) i forget what years, but they have since then scratched him from their events. on the trail, he acted like GOD! if your truck did'nt cost 40,000$ you don't belong here, oh i'm sorry your POS is broken move it to the side so my friends and i can get by! the guy is exactly the opposite of what this sport is all about IMO. sorry just venting when i read his name. anyway thanks for listening

Originally posted by camo
why do you think there were only 17 rigs entered in a hazel event when other promoter are getting full feilds? the word is out in the compitition community.

With this being the case how is he able to continue to garner support from sponsors? To me it would seem that if as many people that have commented on how poorly his events are organized and the lack luster payouts etc. that sponsors would see this as well and put thier $$ elswhere.....:confused:

To bad Badlands had to be associated with such a poor showing since it is probably the best private park in this part of the country:(
Curious what Troy's reactions are to this?

I'll keep all my comments directed to only one issue, that is the Mod stock class vs. the Legends class (calrocs vs. uroc styles).

At CalROCS we have tried to establish what we think is, as it is named a Modified stock class, as compared to the uroc style ie legends. They are not even close to the same or I believe intended to be the same. Craig and I had many conversions over this last year, we each decided to go in a different direction. If you read the rules of both you'll easily understand the thought processes we both used. And I don't profess to have done something better or worse only different. CalROCS is looking to establish a maunfactures type class, from the Mod Stock class, the store bought kits being the common not the uncommon. I think the difference is good, it gives everyone a place to run. NeuRock is using the same vehicle classifications as CalROCS and Eeroc is using the Uroc classes, I think that is great, again 2 options for the competitors.

Only my .02

Rich Klein
CalROCS

Originally posted by Ryan
The "one cone and you're out" thing kinda has me interested. I saw that rule a while ago and thought it was kinda goofy.


Yer gonna think (and mumble) something more than 'goofy' if you back up near a boundry ribbon like I did at the Farmington ProRock event.
While stopped to turn my wheels a wind gust caught the draped ribbon causing it to touch my tub ... resulting in a DQ.
How chicken $hit is that!:confused:

I went to see/support the event as it was the closest event this year to me. I drove 3 hrs to "learn", see what the guys were using for tires,suspension,engines etc. I learned alot. many were negative as were posted earlier, but on the POSITIVE side, I hope that "someone" continues to have an event at the Badlands, the terrain seemed to enough of a challange for 'ole Indiana.I only attended on Saturday, but got to see some cool trucks, and meet "Bigdude" and Shupe too! They both seemed like good guys, unlike a few other competitors there.:rolleyes:

i really never planed on wasting my fuel to get to a pro rock event.... i came to see all my buddies and yeahh had to check out my new rig...... but entering.... highly doubt it! ever!


EROCC event in 2 weeks! see you all there! :D

Originally posted by ROCKTOY74
iv'e attended 2 boob hazel events, shits in the rough is what it oughta be called, and they suck ass!!!:mad: you will never see me at a another event with his name or logo attached to it! he is definitley in it just for the money. he was actually a trail leader for the events i attended (ROSSER ROUNDUP) i forget what years, but they have since then scratched him from their events. on the trail, he acted like GOD! if your truck did'nt cost 40,000$ you don't belong here, oh i'm sorry your POS is broken move it to the side so my friends and i can get by! the guy is exactly the opposite of what this sport is all about IMO. sorry just venting when i read his name. anyway thanks for listening

well put!!!!

I also have attended some of his events.. the last was TOR 2001 and i can say that it was disgusting... it was the worst event i have been too... and i also had the pleasure of running into him and his warn "fag" crew... they totally went off trail.. and just made their own little trial right thru the woods.. and this was at monteagle where you also have to rent the land...

I WILL NEVER ATTEND ANYTHING WITH HIS NAME ATTACHED TO IT!! NOT EVEN HIS FUNERUAL!!:mad: