I'm calling on the wisdom of the experienced ford guys... I'm looking into buying an EB from a guy who lives about an 8 hour drive from me.... he told me the bronco has a 302 in it... he thinks. I have a couple of pictures of the engine, and unfortunately my ford engine experience is extremely limited. That being said.. can anybody help me identify this sucker??? THANKS!

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q151/theaggierebel/n1058469483_133876_339.jpg

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q151/theaggierebel/n1058469483_133880_1475.jpg

Well it's a small block, could be a 302 or 289. 351W is a possibility but the difference is too subtle to detect in the pic.

Odd valve covers.

Odd valve covers.

Maybe some of the newer oem types we never see because they are usually hidden in a forrest of plastic and rubber.

the first email he sent to me about the engine said it was a boss 302..... ??

I doubt it is a 351w. The clamp area of the dizzy will be about an inch below the bottom of the intake on a 351.

The valve covers do look newer. The rubber hose coming from the fill tube usually goes to the throttle body. My Explorer EFI conversion valve covers have that. Could be wrong about that.

Don't recognize the serp. belt system either.

I see the original throttle bell crank is missing also.

Serp. system puts fan too close to radiator , thus the electric fan.

I'm thinking with all the newer stuff on it , some one swapped in a newer 302/5.0.

Digging the coil mount too. :)

the first email he sent to me about the engine said it was a boss 302..... ??

Absolutely posatively no doubt it is not a Boss 302. Boss 302s use Cleveland or Cleveland style heads, it's got the wrong valve covers and it cleary has small block heads with the tiny exhaust ports. something about it smells like 5.0 tho. Looks like parts from both. Either a 5.0 converted to carb or a 302 with 5.0 parts bolted on.


I doubt it is a 351w. The clamp area of the dizzy will be about an inch below the bottom of the intake on a 351.

The valve covers do look newer. The rubber hose coming from the fill tube usually goes to the throttle body. My Explorer EFI conversion valve covers have that. Could be wrong about that.

Don't recognize the serp. belt system either.

I see the original throttle bell crank is missing also.

Serp. system puts fan too close to radiator , thus the electric fan.

I'm thinking with all the newer stuff on it , some one swapped in a newer 302/5.0.

Digging the coil mount too. :)

yup

and it cleary has small block heads with the tiny exhaust ports.



yup

Clearly.... lol. Sorry, as I said, extremely limited ford engine knowledge.... and other than the jeep 4.0, not much engine expericnce at all. :(

This is just a guess, but I am thinking it was a fuelie van or possibly even motorhome motor. The oil fill is far to tall compared to any 5.0 or 5.8 I have come across. The oil dip stick also looks like it was just bent forward to cut down on it's excess height. All the ones I have have a much shorter dip stick. I have never come across that AC compressor on a ford, nor that steel AC bracket w/ serp, but I have seen it on a vee belt motor. Thermostat housing looks different too. Only carbed 5.0 I have around has the housing on top of the intake.

All in all it looks pretty damn hack. Hopefully you are getting a great deal on it.

Later,
Jason

the accessory drive, the valve covers, and the headers all lead me to believe it is a mustang/capri/LSC 5.0 motor formerly EFI, with a carb intake swaped over. i dont think it is a truck or pass car motor since most of them used a different accessory drive set up w/ multiple belts... plus the headers (from what i can see of them).

:smokin:

it should run pretty good with that double pumper carb.! if you buy it, get rid of the points ignition, if it is a mustang motor it has a roller cam so you will need a dizzy from an 85 mustang with 4bbl carb ONLY! i can t stress this enough! as it would have the hardened dizzy gear and it would be for a duraspark ignition. another plus... add a relay on a toggle switch and some hoses to that A/C compressor... and you got OBA!

The valve Covers are 5.0 HO but they do fit a 5.8 ang 289 I vote Carbed 5.0

bases on this pic imma say its a 5.0 turned carb;

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g181/littleme1369/carb2efi.gif

Hopefully you are getting a great deal on it.


Straightest body on a un-restored EB I've seen in a LONG time... $2500. Pretty good deal I think.

If you can see this link .... I posted up this thread at http://classicbroncos.com/forums/index.php

thread is here:
http://classicbroncos.com/forums/showthread.php?t=135421

General concensus is same as here , prolly a EFI motor converted to carb.

bingo. but good way to make sure is measure from the center of the intake bolts and if its 7.5'' its a 289/302 if its wider its a 351w, thats about the only difference between the two

bases on this pic imma say its a 5.0 turned carb;

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g181/littleme1369/carb2efi.gif

Cool. A pic of my Bronco's engine made it to Pirate (the fuel injected picture).

Agree with above that it is probably a 5.0. Not a Mustang due to front dress but more than likely a LSC, T-Bird, 4-door, etc.

those are fuelie 5.0 valve covers.
my 85 didnt use those

the first email he sent to me about the engine said it was a boss 302..... ??

But he doesn't know what the engine is??? The guy is a douche :shaking:

Could be a 289 or a 302, but based on the valve covers alone(which, lets be honest, doesn't mean squat) I'd guess a newer 302 (5.0).

valve covers, headers, and the accessory drive state efi 5.0 with a carb and distributor swap

Cool. A pic of my Bronco's engine made it to Pirate (the fuel injected picture).

Agree with above that it is probably a 5.0. Not a Mustang due to front dress but more than likely a LSC, T-Bird, 4-door, etc.

Nice looking engine compartment.

Fayetteville? Still have barber shops open til midnight?

But he doesn't know what the engine is??? The guy is a douche :shaking:

Is this the ford guys' equivalent to the "corvette" motors found in so many chevy trucks?????

Cool. A pic of my Bronco's engine made it to Pirate (the fuel injected picture).

Agree with above that it is probably a 5.0. Not a Mustang due to front dress but more than likely a LSC, T-Bird, 4-door, etc.

what am i missing here?
the front dress looks like a ringer to me ??

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q151/theaggierebel/n1058469483_133876_339.jpg

what am i missing here?
the front dress looks like a ringer to me ??



Man, so far this is the most convincing post... thanks MJ.

But he doesn't know what the engine is??? The guy is a douche :shaking:

Could be a 289 or a 302, but based on the valve covers alone(which, lets be honest, doesn't mean squat) I'd guess a newer 302 (5.0).

Man, I guess that makes me a douche too, since I wouldnt know what it is just by looking.

This is actually a buddy of mine from about 10 years ago that bought this with the intent to build it up, but tucked it away in his back yard along with his military humvee and land cruiser projects.... so I would imagine he didnt spend any time looking into it and is as ford ignorant as I am.

I'm guessing a Lincoln 5.0 based on the large body G1 alternator.

doesnt look large to me

Look at the size difference in the two alts.

Look at the size difference in the two alts.

if there was one I would look at it, but they are identical

Boss 302 long block

if there was one I would look at it, but they are identical
The ones shown are the same size, large case 1G units, commonly found in the Lincolns. The aluminum bracket is larger.

FYI, how to tell the diff between a 302 and a 351W.
*Measure the width of the intake manifold (351=2" wider)
*Look for ribs on the block above the top two belhousing bolts. Ribbing=351W.
*Look at the water pump mount on the drivers side of the front of the engine. If the deck surface is right above the water pump then it is a 302. If the head deck is around 3/4" above the water pump then the engine is a 351W.

*Look for ribs on the block above the top two belhousing bolts. Ribbing=351W.

what if he put the 351w on the stock c4 or 302 bell housing?

and thats not the stock rad. looks like the one out of a 60's f100 and the wiring looks like its hacked together. my bet it a early 90's 5.0 FOR SURE NOT A BOSS 302!

not a bad thing, they do have a little bit more hp then the old 302's

my guess is some dude got a bronco with no motor went to the junk yard and picked up that motor slapped it in found the fan don't fit plundered one that bolts to inside of the core support to fit a elc fan. peaced it all to work.

if that price is right and body not to bad i say get it.

what if he put the 351w on the stock c4 or 302 bell housing?


It still is a 351W. The motor is taller and creates other issues, but that's another thread.

Thanks for all the help guys. Reguardless of what it is or how powerful my buddy says it is, it is a hack job as most of you have said. That being said I will be looking for something a little more purdy to take its place, I just don't have a clue what yet.....???? Decisions, decisions.

Man, I guess that makes me a douche too, since I wouldnt know what it is just by looking.

Uhhh, no, what makes somebody a douche is when they are trying to sell a vehicle, have no idea what the motor is; and then make a claim that its a "Boss 302". Thats a comparatively rare, collectible motor. That would be like me selling an old ford that probably has a 360, and claiming "hey, it might be a 428 super cobra jet!".

Its bad enough that every tom, dick and harry, claim their old Fords 360 has magically transformed into a 390 when they go to sell it; if you are going to claim you have a rare performance motor than make damn well sure.

Boss 302 long block

this is EXACTLY the problem... parts that obviously say "boss" on them when they are in fact NOT "boss". i know the valve covers say "boss", but if you look closely where the v/c bolts to the head you will see a std small block valve cover shape... also typical small blocks 260-351W have 6 bolt v/c's (like these pictured), the boss heads have 8 bolts like the 351c, 351m, 400 motors.

i am kinda curious as to what the owner did with the distributor/cam combo.

did he keep the steel roller cam and swap a steel dist gear onto a points distributor (didn't know that was possible since the 5.0l steel gear is the same ID as the 351w, and therefore if it's a 351w dist, then how did they get the dist body to fit into the 5.0l hole), or did he swap the roller cam for a flat tappet.

me thinks some serious cobbling occured.

this is EXACTLY the problem... parts that obviously say "boss" on them when they are in fact NOT "boss". i know the valve covers say "boss", but if you look closely where the v/c bolts to the head you will see a std small block valve cover shape... also typical small blocks 260-351W have 6 bolt v/c's (like these pictured), the boss heads have 8 bolts like the 351c, 351m, 400 motors.

that is what ford is calling a Boss 302 these days. available at ford.

the Dizzy has me wondering as well. first thintg I would do is pull it out to see whats left of the gear
proper way is to buy a 1985 5.0 HO distributor to match the duraspark

that is what ford is calling a Boss 302 these days. available at ford.

the Dizzy has me wondering as well. first thintg I would do is pull it out to see whats left of the gear
proper way is to buy a 1985 5.0 HO distributor to match the duraspark

X's 2

the 85 is the ONLY drop in dizzy to work with a carb and duraspark without getting an aftermarket one (MSD, mallory, ect.).

ford has always attributed the boss name with a canted valve head... i guess that is called "creative marketing".

ive seen some 1st class cobbling myself... the good news is, if some backwoods engineer dropped in a dizzy w/ a cast gear, it will destroy the gear but the cam will remain unharmed.

:flipoff2:

Ford was playing with the boss name with the mustangs back in the early 80's, mostly stickers IRC. I would not trust a dizzy from the parts house for a 1 year only application, too easy to "whoops", and most people do not know how to tell the difference. IMO, the safest bet would be buy your own gear and put it on yourself, or take the manifold off to see what you actually have in there. Even if its a roller ready block, non roller cams were still used Also, looking at the casting number on the block will tell you alot, it could be a non roller camshaft motor with EFI accessories and whatnot. Already mentioned, they could have changed the camshaft as well. Who knows?

I just noticed something else I'm not really liking with that Bronco. For some reason it has a 6 cylinder engine radiator in it.The v-8 ones we always cross flow from the factory and the 6 bangers got the down flow radiators. If you do buy it plan on swapping it out for a proper size radiator. It was probably a v-8 swap so check the motor towers to see if they were welded on correctly.
IMO bring someone with you that knows EB's. You might find some more suprises you won't like.

IMO bring someone with you that knows EB's. You might find some more suprises you won't like.

If you cant find anybody to go with you, talk lots of very detailed pictures for us to examine. I am sure we can find millions of dollars worth of faults in just about any rig. If the price is right, it might be worth the surprises.

I found this rotting in a field, once I tracked down the owner, he felt this truck was worth its weight in gold... Needless to say, its still sitting there....
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a315/Masterbeavis/74%20Early%20Bronco/eb1.jpg

Ok I'm going to shift gears in this thread, lets call this "is it worth it???"

Gonna post a couple more pictures of this sucker. As I said, this is an old offroading buddy of mine, so I know he's not trying to screw me or anything, he's wanting to sell it to me for what he bought it for -- $2500.

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q151/theaggierebel/n1058469483_133875_46.jpg

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q151/theaggierebel/n1058469483_133877_615.jpg

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q151/theaggierebel/n1058469483_133878_907.jpg

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q151/theaggierebel/n1058469483_133879_1194.jpg




and everbody saw the engine already but for those with short attention spans

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q151/theaggierebel/n1058469483_133876_339.jpg


Now everything runs, he says the motor has gobs of power, but the t-case needs a new linkage. Body looks pretty good to me, no damage that I can see, he did say it has normal rust for an EB though. Soooooo question of the day ISSSS : Is it worth it?? ($2500)

I feel like its a fair price, but Im open for opinions!



?

EB are all about the rust. if the tub is in good shape it is easily worth the asking price
motors transmissions axles are all subject to upgrades anyway so they take a backseat to how the tub has survived.
every single piece of the tub is available in the aftermarket for those things
so no matter how bad it is it can be brought back to life with a heavy dose of $$

what year is it?

71.5 and up is the D44 front. 66 - 71 is the D30(junk)
also look at the rear to see if it is a big bearing 9"

personaly I think it's worth it if the body is in good shape

this realy boils down to how far you are going with it. if you plan to upgrade everything then make sure it came with the better parts so you can at least sell what comes with it to help buy your upgrades. i.e. no one wants a D30 but you can sell a D44 pretty easy...

Thats pretty much the conclusion I came to. He told me it has typical rust for an EB.... depends on what his idea of typical is. I'm gonna ask him for a couple more pictures detailing the rust b4 I make the 365 mile drive to get the sucker.

Oh and reguardless of what rear axle it has, I have a BB 9" that has been sitting in my backyard for 4 years, it was supposed to go under my TJ before it got totaled :mad3:

I've been watching craigslist, and you can get a runner that looks decent for $4-5k. IMO by the time that thing is running/driving/looking decent, you'll have much more than that in it. Times are hard and the toys are the first thing to go, $2500 should go alot farther than that. Maybe he really did pay $2500 for it, and trying to pass off his poor investment.

To be honest, the condition this one is in is about where I want it, I honestly wouldnt want to pay any more, even if it was alot nicer. Reason being, I plan on doing a frame-off, not necessarily a restoration, but PC the frame, new bushings all the way around, new seats, rhino line the tub, a non-hack engine..... BUT best of all, my friend owns a classic car restoration shop with a full size paint booth, so the new paint job costs me the price of the paint ony :smokin:

Therefore, I wouldnt really care to get something any nicer than what this one is. Just wanting to make sure 2500 is a good price for what I'm getting ya know.. I appreciate all you guys' input!

Based on those pics, I wouldn't pay $2500 for it. Old Bronco owners think those things are a gold mine, and sell them for way more than they are worth. To me, if a truck runs, and it can run enough to at least make it to the house, it's worth at least a grand. If it doesn't have the original engine, or the body has been hacked up or rotted out, that's more I would deduct off the price. For that truck, for $2500, I would expect the original parts...including the original engine. If you were buying it to restore, you'd be better to walk away from it.

That engine looks like an emalgamation of parts: early 80's Mustang accessory drive, EFI valve covers, non-HEI (possibly points) distributor, aftermarket carb, and maybe an iron intake manifold. All of which can fit a 289. You need to locate the casting number on the block. If it starts with C7, you have a 289...meaning it's a '67 block and anything with a 6 or 5 as the second digit means '66 or '65, respectively. ( I think '67 was the last year of the 289...someone correct me if I'm wrong) If it's a C8 or newer, it's a 302.

Old Bronco owners think those things are a gold mine, and sell them for way more than they are worth.


I think the key word here is 'sell'. People buy them for those high prices so why would anyone sell one 'cheap'. I wish they were still cheap but if I was selling one on craigslist I wouldn't give it away.

Hmm... I don't know. I've been searching CL also, and so far the only ones I've found for same price or cheaper have been absolute rust buckets... and then anything that is in the same shape as this one is around 4k and up....

Hmm... I don't know. I've been searching CL also, and so far the only ones I've found for same price or cheaper have been absolute rust buckets... and then anything that is in the same shape as this one is around 4k and up....

Search phoenix, they've been hit pretty hard by the recession, and we get less rust this way. For a project or restoration, hold out for the perfect candidate, don't pay for something that you wont use. 5.0s are $200 and bucket seats are cheap, so don't pay an extra $1500 for shit that you are just going to rip out and toss in the landfill/swapmeet pile. It would seem to me that you need to buy something a little farther gone mechanically, but with a rustfree body. When times are tough, the projects that don't run are the cheapest ones.

As for the engine, I just yanked an 86 mustang engine and the accessory drive, dipstick, valve covers, headers look identical. It likely has a points dist (see the ballast resistor) and it is probably chewing up the drive gear pretty good.

Yeah, here that Bronco would be $4k+. It's all about location. Might not be worth a carton of Marlboros in Oklahoma.

Humm, It's a little high but no terrible. No power brakes, might be drums on the front, looks like no power steering. Some rust up here means it will need new door posts, rockers, tailgate, door skins and maybe more. Get some pics of the door posts and with the doors almost closed. See how much they sag.
If you don't mind a project I'd offer him $2000. Your not going to want to wheel that rig without some time and money invested.

where do the power steering pump lines go to?

I would probably try to talk him down, but I wouldn't be upset if I bought it for that.

around here I have only found a handfull of EB's all were not for sale. so when I got mine for $1500 I jumped quick.

I will tell you this: for $1500 all I am using is the title, a realy rusty tub, a good frame, and a D20/RAT 3speed

the rest is setting in my shop while I decide if I am going to sell it or save it for another project down the road.

Yeah, here that Bronco would be $4k+. It's all about location. Might not be worth a carton of Marlboros in Oklahoma.
Thank Jeebus I ain't from Oklahoma...some of these tards here think an "early Bronco" or "EB" means a rusted out p.o.s. early-80's Bronco.

As for the engine, I just yanked an 86 mustang engine and the accessory drive, dipstick, valve covers, headers look identical. It likely has a points dist (see the ballast resistor) and it is probably chewing up the drive gear pretty good.

The Lincoln 5.0 and the Mustang 5.0 were identical motors with exception to which way the intake pointed, computer, and the size of the alternator, the Lincoln receiving the 1G as shown in that picture. We already covered the drive gear issue a page ago.