Anyone else think it's funny that Rally Track isn't answering their phone???:shaking:

I've tried calling several times today. I spoke with Craig (???) after the race, and he said to call this morning and he'll "see" what he can do. Since I'm not expecting anything, I've disputed the charge to my CC. Hopefully noone else will make the mistake of using such a terrible product with even worse customer support!

We'll see how long this goes, and whetherr or not we'll have to feed them to the "bad seller" forum...:flipoff2:

I just called and talked to the guy at Rally Track. The phone number on their website goes to his cell phone. I asked him to explain what happened to the on-line coverage. He explained that his internet company rejected his communications during the race. He started to tell me that they have never had this kind of problems in the past 3 years and that the recievers were all working properly. When I told him that my crew attempted to get my location from them during the race and were told that I was not being tracked, he back pedaled a little. He told me that when he got back to the office, he would look into it and send me an e-mail as to what he found (probably tommorrow).

We'll see. I also told him that my sponsors were having a little heart burn about having to pay for a service that didn't work and were looking for a reason for this apparent un-needed expense.

I'll be recomending to my sponsor that they dispute thier cc charges for mine and Greg Adlers car as well.

I will have my main sponsor disput this cost too.....Kathleeeeeeeen!!!!!

wayne

Upsetting to see the company apparently not standing behind their service/product :(

I'll be recomending to my sponsor that they dispute thier cc charges for mine and Greg Adlers car as well.

So, Eric, are you saying that you charged your rally track $125 on a credit card? Just curious. Ian (Complaine) tried to charge it and they would only accept cash :(

So, Eric, are you saying that you charged your rally track $125 on a credit card? Just curious. Ian (Complaine) tried to charge it and they would only accept cash :(

They were only taking cash on site, you could pay with a card if you paid ahead of time using their website. Their truck was set up right behind my trailer and I talked to those guys a few times. I'm a technical guy myself and they never once seemed to have their shit together, every time I talked to them they seemed to be swamped and not catching up.

They were only taking cash on site, you could pay with a card if you paid ahead of time using their website. Their truck was set up right behind my trailer and I talked to those guys a few times. I'm a technical guy myself and they never once seemed to have their shit together, every time I talked to them they seemed to be swamped and not catching up.

Thanks; wish we had known that...

Well i guess i get to keep the unit still bolted to my car since they left bright and early saturday morning, and don't answer the phone :rolleyes:

Yeah that unit was junk. My co-driver paid for mine and went to get his money back on Saturday and got a we will see what we can do response. Great service, those guys totally blew it

Well i guess i get to keep the unit still bolted to my car since they left bright and early saturday morning, and don't answer the phone :rolleyes:

I don't think they will be able to track you!:laughing:

I don't think they will be able to track you!:laughing:
:lmao: :snort:

I don't think they will be able to track you!:laughing:

good point!

I don't think they will be able to track you!:laughing:

That's like what we told Brett (#20) who's car they left it on. "Hey, if they want it bad enough, tell them to track it and they'll know exactly where it is":shaking::laughing::laughing:

Im cancelling the check I wrote them. That was complete BS.

That's like what we told Brett (#20) who's car they left it on. "Hey, if they want it bad enough, tell them to track it and they'll know exactly where it is":shaking::laughing::laughing:


Mine still has the fuse in it and the green light sitting here in the shop it's on :grinpimp:

I'm cancelling the cash I gave them t......oh wait I'm screwed:mad3:

So I know the online portion of it didn't work, but did the actual tracking that was used by race officials to confirm if you actually ran the course not work either?

When I was watching the Pirate coverage I heard someone say that they were there to make sure everyone actually ran the course, and that the online thing was just an extra feature.

I am curious to know how much those units cost total and what they can do to you if you don't return them. In any normal rental situation you put a deposit down.

So I know the online portion of it didn't work, but did the actual tracking that was used by race officials to confirm if you actually ran the course not work either?



I know for a fact that the Marlin team #28 and the Lost Highway team #20 went to the Rally Track trailer and asked the status of thier cars and RT had no idea where they were:shaking:

From: http://www.rallytrack.com/KOH/post_event.htm

March 2, 2009

In response to many questions about the recent King of the Hammers event, we have prepared the following explanation about the live internet tracking not working.



Everyone should be cautioned about taking the action of requesting a reversal of charges with their credit card company, requesting a refund with PayPal, or placing a stop payment on a check to avoid undue frustrations and wasted efforts. We will facilitate the best solution for everyone within the terms of our Service Agreement.


We at RallyTrack are also extremely disappointed that the live internet tracking was not functioning during the race and have provided an explanation below.

There are two aspects of the service that was provided at the recent King of the Hammers event.
The 1st was the stand alone Rally Logger GPS data recorder.
The 2nd was the radio that transmitted position updates via our dedicated repeater and was supposed to ultimately appear live on the internet. All equipment and systems were tested 100% at least 2 different times by different people before the race to ensure the equipment was programmed and functioning properly. We were in fact receiving live tracking messages in the RallyTrack Rig during the race. There were many transmitters that did not work on race day due to broken antennas, broken power cords, disconnected power cords, and broken data cable plugs. All of which happened after we installed the equipment on Thursday. I'm sure these items were unintentional, but none the less added to the perception of the tracking system not working.

The only piece of the puzzle that did not function properly was the sending of tracking data from the RallyTrack Rig to the Live.RallyTrack.com server and it was directly caused by the HughesNet satellite service blocking our POP3 messages. Unfortunately this was out of our control, did not happen during previous testing, and had never happened in our past 3 years of using HughesNet satellite internet. When we discovered the issue, we immediately contacted HughesNet via an online tech support chat and they refused to assist us and said we needed to call the company that we purchased the satellite equipment from. Making a phone call without cell service inside our Rig made it impossible to resolve this problem before the race was over.

We are in the process of carefully reviewing all the equipment that was installed on each vehicle and will provide a detailed report to HammerKing Productions. If we find any device that was not configured properly and caused both the Rally Logger and Transmitter to not work during the race, we will provide refunds on an individual basis.

Thank you,
Craig Reitz
RallyTrack.com

That sounds like Rally Track needs to go after their service provider...in the meantime I'm disputing the charges!!!

Reading that note from RallyTrack, it seems they didn't realise their "TRUCK" had "WHEELS" on it and they could "DRIVE" the damn thing to the "PHONE TREE", not only to "CONTACT" HughesNet, but also to "UPLOAD" via "CELL PHONE"... :shaking:

That note was LAME as it was a Friday and HughesNet customer service is easily reached on Friday AM, which is when they discovered the problem.

We put a ton into this race, our fans and partners expected to follow progress on the rallytracker, and were not just let down for a few minutes of downtime, but instead got ZERO coverage. As far as I'm concerned, rallytrack owes teams and KOH a big chunk of $.

From: http://www.rallytrack.com/KOH/post_event.htm


Was probably fixable in minutes by forwarding the e-mail messages through a hughes smtp server. System sounds a little hokey to me.

Reading that note from RallyTrack, it seems they didn't realise their "TRUCK" had "WHEELS" on it and they could "DRIVE" the damn thing to the "PHONE TREE", not only to "CONTACT" HughesNet, but also to "UPLOAD" via "CELL PHONE"... :shaking:

That note was LAME as it was a Friday and HughesNet customer service is easily reached on Friday AM, which is when they discovered the problem.

We put a ton into this race, our fans and partners expected to follow progress on the rallytracker, and were not just let down for a few minutes of downtime, but instead got ZERO coverage. As far as I'm concerned, rallytrack owes teams and KOH a big chunk of $.

Our service agreement was between us (racers) and RallyTrack. Not between us and HughesNet or whoever. HughesNet owes me nothing; I don't even have a business relationship with them. For me to call HughesNet about this would be like me calling Goodyear because one of the tires on my truck went flat; Goodyear doesn't know me from Adam, and doesn't care to. They sold tires to GM, who put them on a truck and sold it to a dealer, who sold the truck to me. If I have a problem, I have to go through the retail distribution chain; I can't just take the truck to the nearest Goodyear factory and expect them to fix my tire.

RallyTrack may not like it, but they're the focal point of problems. If their service failed because of third-party supplier issues, it's on them to resolve those, but that resolution is outside of their obligation to us (racers) to provide a service or a refund.

Rally Track was never totally successful in the SCORE desert series either and that's one of the many reasons SCORE decided to utilize another vendor.

With the three tracking companies involved in off road motorsports, Rally Track, IRC and ION Earth, two of the three merely operate the systems they purchase and distribute from another company...the other company actually has engineered the back end, all their own tracking units and created the software in-house...they have rely on their own servers and that company themselves are at a higher tier in the world of mobile satellite usage, which was the issue here.

One of these three companies is tracking a much harder event than the King of the Hammers...it's called the Iditarod, a 1150-mile dog sled race across ALASKA, for those that don' know...

The tracking units are completely self-contained with no battery / electrial hookups to your vehicle etc...and this system works tracking these mushers over 1150 miles in the -80 below weather...

http://iditarod.com/

Tracking can be done correctly...:eek:

One of the first problems I had with Rally Track was the attitude of the old guy that was doing the installation. I provided a 12 volt supply as instructed on their wesite. http://www.rallytrack.com/documents/Install_Guide_RallyTrackerVHF.pdf

The old guy started to install the tracker. It would be installed on a 1 1/4" tube located on my dash panel which was within the parameters layed out on the website. He told me that all he had was 1 3/4" tube clamps and I would have to source a stack of washers to make his clamp work. I told him that their website stated that they would handle the installation and he needed to do that cause I had pleanty of other things to do. He left the clamps loose and walked away.
I thought that was total B.S. :mad3:
I bitched to the main guy out there and he didn't seem to give a shit either :shaking:.

As of now, I still haven't recieved an e-mail from them as promissed.

Mine still has the fuse in it and the green light sitting here in the shop it's on :grinpimp:





So is mine. I told the old guy he should track mine over to my camp so he could take it off. They wanted me to bring it back. I told him I was too busy drinking beer.

I know for a fact that the Marlin team #28 and the Lost Highway team #20 went to the Rally Track trailer and asked the status of thier cars and RT had no idea where they were:shaking:

Add Bigelow to the list of never tracked too. When we were looking for him towards the end of the race I asked the guy in the truck, he gave me a vague look so I jumped on his laptop and found the car list while he was swamped with something else. #5 wasn't on there at all, when he came over to get me off the comp I asked him what had happened and he said "oh I guess his unit never transmitted" :mad3::mad3:

Was probably fixable in minutes by forwarding the e-mail messages through a hughes smtp server. System sounds a little hokey to me.

Kinda surprising that many other people were getting updates out to the internet from the lakebed, but they couldn't. My iPhone actually saw a couple of wireless networks out there.

I would have to ask lance but my wife thought they even talked shit on his web cast when families where complaining and worried.

So I know the online portion of it didn't work, but did the actual tracking that was used by race officials to confirm if you actually ran the course not work either?

This is what I want answered as well. Did we get anything, in order for it to help police course cutting we need to know that 100% on the cars were tracked 100% on the time and that info should be made available to us all.

I paid w/ pay pal. Anybody know how to dispute charges through them?

Our Internet connection worked good enough to stream live video from the starting line. What's the problem? :flipoff2:

There were many transmitters that did not work on race day due to broken antennas, broken power cords, disconnected power cords, and broken data cable plugs. All of which happened after we installed the equipment on Thursday. I'm sure these items were unintentional, but none the less added to the perception of the tracking system not working.


In the Pirate4x4 spirit I say the transmitters need 1 tons or Rockwells and more triangulation.:D

Sounds like the event was to tough for their equiptment as they were the ones installing it.

Guess KOH isn't a sled race.:rolleyes::D

Hope yall get it all worked out as live tracking would make the event that much more enjoyable for us home bodies.

Our Internet connection worked good enough to stream live video from the starting line. What's the problem? :flipoff2:

Yep,,, from a travel trailer none the less. What did the RT guys have for a command center??:shaking:


Props to the P4X4 crew once more!!! SIMPLY AMAZING!!!

Yep,,, from a travel trailer none the less. What did the RT guys have for a command center??:shaking:


Props to the P4X4 crew once more!!! SIMPLY AMAZING!!!

I think they have a motorhome.

I paid w/ pay pal. Anybody know how to dispute charges through them?

Log in, second row across the top has a "Resolution Center" button in it. Click that, it'll pretty well walk you through, but the "open a dispute" button isn't exactly obvious. You have 45 days from when you paid to open a dispute, and 20 days from opening a dispute to either resolving or escalating it, so depending on when you paid, you might want to get on it soon or PayPal will tell you that it's too late.

Our Internet connection worked good enough to stream live video from the starting line. What's the problem? :flipoff2:

Eggzacary.

Thanks for the coverage Lance.:grinpimp:

This RT shit is just that, shit.:shaking:

There were many transmitters that did not work on race day due to broken antennas, broken power cords, disconnected power cords, and broken data cable plugs. All of which happened after we installed the equipment on Thursday. I'm sure these items were unintentional, but none the less added to the perception of the tracking system not working.


Is this a sarcastic remark implying sabotage.

its probably not quite so bad as sarcasm but if Rally Track never did this on rock crawling rigs before they probably had no clue where to install them so as not to get hit when leaning/rolling over in rocks and what not. obviously rollovers happen in the desert but the units probably get taken out then too.

I'm pretty confident that while Bigelow was working on his alternator it took out his RT. You can only blame Rally for that under the premise their unit should be self contained with battery power (or battery backup even better). Since it was wired into the cars 12v system thats a single point of failure for sure.

Given team 52s problem of taking out their ORI shreader with their own driveshaft, those RT units were probably banged into a few times by powertanks, spare tires and other shit.

obviously their whole internet upload system was full of many single points of failure. I had a Verizon card in my laptop and a 2 minute drive to the right spot on the lake bed was all it took to make it work.

There were many transmitters that did not work on race day due to broken antennas, broken power cords, disconnected power cords, and broken data cable plugs. All of which happened after we installed the equipment on Thursday. I'm sure these items were unintentional, but none the less added to the perception of the tracking system not working.


Is this a sarcastic remark implying sabotage.

Is this a sarcastic remark implying sabotage.

That's how I read it and it kinda pissed me off, almost like they're trying to blame us for thier epic failure:shaking:

One of the cars that I was there to help pit for had problems which we were told by one of the other cars we were there for. So one of the guys cruised down to the RT truck to see where they were. They said they had them about mile 51. About 30 seconds after the guy returned from the RT truck, our guy was pulling into the main pit:shaking:

Item 8 of their service agreement (which I don't think I ever signed) says in short " if it dosn't work it's not our problem" I will say it sucks that it did not work on line, My family and sponsors usually try to track our BITD races and were dissapointed that this one did not work. They did seem to be a bit overwhelmed at the race as far as being preparred ect. I would guess that HammerKing will not use rally track for another race. On the other hand, I would bet Rally track would not try another Hammers Race.

When we crossed the finish line our rally track was in perfecet condition with the green light on. It was mounted in the back of the car just below the roof.We never rolled our buggy I want to see all the data from all the cars that finished including ours, to know that no one cut the course even if it was unintentional..

Our Internet connection worked good enough to stream live video from the starting line. What's the problem? :flipoff2:

And my mom said it was awesome but she wants you to sensor the foul language now that you are a daddy.

So is mine. I told the old guy he should track mine over to my camp so he could take it off. They wanted me to bring it back. I told him I was too busy drinking beer.

:laughing::laughing::laughing:

When we crossed the finish line our rally track was in perfecet condition with the green light on. It was mounted in the back of the car just below the roof.We never rolled our buggy I want to see all the data from all the cars that finished including ours, to know that no one cut the course even if it was unintentional..

10-4 I know right where you passed us. I wish I could say that about all the cars.

And my mom said it was awesome but she wants you to sensor the foul language now that you are a daddy.

Aren't you one of the guys whining about too many rules being made? If you can't handle cussing (real world talk) don't listen.

Don't panic everyone!!

A real solution to the Rally Track is being worked on as we speak. This new revolutionary system is gaurnteed to work as good if not better that the current systems.


More news to follow, stay tuned:smokin:

Don't panic everyone!!

A real solution to the Rally Track is being worked on as we speak. This new revolutionary system is gaurnteed to work as good if not better that the current systems.


More news to follow, stay tuned:smokin:

Is it like your gps from last year?

I think that someone changed their Nickname on the ustream to RallyTrack and was posting bullshit stuff while everyone was complaining. I saw a couple different nicks like that. I spent almost 2 full days in the ustream chat watching offroad racing... I'm having withrawals now.

Thanks again Lance for putting up with us BSing in the ustream chat box!

I think that someone changed their Nickname on the ustream to RallyTrack and was posting bullshit stuff while everyone was complaining. I saw a couple different nicks like that. I spent almost 2 full days in the ustream chat watching offroad racing... I'm having withrawals now.

Thanks again Lance for putting up with us BSing in the ustream chat box!

I know there was maybe 30 people who registered with their board names, the rest stayed anon. and kept talking about the warthog...fucking lame.:shaking:

I hope you guys get your money back.

On a side note, those of you still in possession of your unit might want to send it back to them (certified, with postage due).

Why might you ask?

Well, if you try to get your money back, they can argue (in court ) that your keeping the unit is costing them more than the $$ they owe you.
So in essence, they could even try to get more money from you (via court).

Aren't you one of the guys whining about too many rules being made? If you can't handle cussing (real world talk) don't listen.

Real world? Are you MTV now? The point you missed was that MY MOTHER was on Pirate4x4.com all day meaning your audience is growing. Not listening is a option you should want as few people to take as possible. Just sayin' its your business.

Is it like your gps from last year?




Real similar. Keep your eyes peeled.:laughing:

OK, after thinking about this for a couple of days, Mustard Dog and I have come up with an alternative.

THE BENDER TRACKER 3000

With this unit you can:
* Track any vehicle, any place in the world.

* It will track speed, location, and tell you sexual orientation of the occupants.

* It will constantly upload to the internet 24hrs per day.

Special features include a built in "On Course Protest Option". If you see another competitor cheating during the race, you can remover the Bender Tracker 3000 using it's quick disconnect mount and throw it at your fellow competitor.

Another special feature is, after the race you can use it to help start the camp fire.

FOR ONLY $75 YOU CAN OWN THE BENDER TRACKER 3000!


* The Bender Tracker 3000 is guarenteed to work at least as good as my tracker did in the KOH race.

BUT WAIT! If you call now you will recieve a second Bender Tracker 3000 for only $75 more :flipoff2:.

Hey John, lets do a demonstration for all the potential customers out there.

Can your software pinpoint with an address if possible where the car is right now?

My software indicates that it is currently sitting in a shop at 14342 Oden Drive in Apple Valley, and the occupant is thinking nasty things about goats . Can you confirm?

Our service agreement was between us (racers) and RallyTrack. Not between us and HughesNet or whoever. HughesNet owes me nothing; I don't even have a business relationship with them. For me to call HughesNet about this would be like me calling Goodyear because one of the tires on my truck went flat; Goodyear doesn't know me from Adam, and doesn't care to. They sold tires to GM, who put them on a truck and sold it to a dealer, who sold the truck to me. If I have a problem, I have to go through the retail distribution chain; I can't just take the truck to the nearest Goodyear factory and expect them to fix my tire.

RallyTrack may not like it, but they're the focal point of problems. If their service failed because of third-party supplier issues, it's on them to resolve those, but that resolution is outside of their obligation to us (racers) to provide a service or a refund.
Hey Scott, read my post again. I was talking about RallyTrack, not you or any other teams. THEY should have called Hughesnet from the phonetree and in the least, driven their rig out to the tree and done upload via phone, vs. satellite.

:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:

Hey Scott, read my post again. I was talking about RallyTrack, not you or any other teams. THEY should have called Hughesnet from the phonetree and in the least, driven their rig out to the tree and done upload via phone, vs. satellite.

Yeah, I know... sorry if I came off as adversarial (like others in this thread, I'm annoyed), I was actually agreeing with you. I just suck at communicating clearly. :(

BTW, sorry about the short joke on top of Sunbonnet, but the "son of a... I really can't reach your pedals!" immediately after, was truly priceless. Hopefully you got at least a bit of a laugh out of it too. :beer:

and the occupant is thinking nasty things about goats . Can you confirm?

Wow:eek:

I think we did it, this thing is performing way above what we were expecting:smokin:

BTW, sorry about the short joke on top of Sunbonnet, but the "son of a... I really can't reach your pedals!" immediately after, was truly priceless. Hopefully you got at least a bit of a laugh out of it too. :beer:

That was just one of many from KOH week. I think the last 7 days set a new record for short jokes but yours and Jeff's from the driver's meeting topped the pile for sure! :laughing:

insert joke about me not seeing the top of the pile cause I'm too short...

OK, after thinking about this for a couple of days, Mustard Dog and I have come up with an alternative.

THE BENDER TRACKER 3000

With this unit you can:
* Track any vehicle, any place in the world.

* It will track speed, location, and tell you sexual orientation of the occupants.

* It will constantly upload to the internet 24hrs per day.

Special features include a built in "On Course Protest Option". If you see another competitor cheating during the race, you can remover the Bender Tracker 3000 using it's quick disconnect mount and throw it at your fellow competitor.

Another special feature is, after the race you can use it to help start the camp fire.

FOR ONLY $75 YOU CAN OWN THE BENDER TRACKER 3000!


* The Bender Tracker 3000 is guarenteed to work at least as good as my tracker did in the KOH race.

BUT WAIT! If you call now you will recieve a second Bender Tracker 3000 for only $75 more :flipoff2:.


You have to get the shamwow guy for your new commercial.:lmao:

OK, after thinking about this for a couple of days, Mustard Dog and I have come up with an alternative.

THE BENDER TRACKER 3000

With this unit you can:
* Track any vehicle, any place in the world.

* It will track speed, location, and tell you sexual orientation of the occupants.

* It will constantly upload to the internet 24hrs per day.

Special features include a built in "On Course Protest Option". If you see another competitor cheating during the race, you can remover the Bender Tracker 3000 using it's quick disconnect mount and throw it at your fellow competitor.

Another special feature is, after the race you can use it to help start the camp fire.

FOR ONLY $75 YOU CAN OWN THE BENDER TRACKER 3000!


* The Bender Tracker 3000 is guarenteed to work at least as good as my tracker did in the KOH race.

BUT WAIT! If you call now you will recieve a second Bender Tracker 3000 for only $75 more :flipoff2:.

I can't stop laughing!:laughing::laughing:

hahahahahahaha. nice one!!!!!! throw it at other competitors hahahahaha!!!!

i got to get me one of them!

That was just one of many from KOH week. I think the last 7 days set a new record for short jokes but yours and Jeff's from the driver's meeting topped the pile for sure! :laughing:

insert joke about me not seeing the top of the pile cause I'm too short...


My favorite was saturday night on Backdoor. After making several attempts in the jeep Dustin backs down and says "it's just too short" (referring to the Jeeps wheelbase) and someone yells out "story of your life!"


:laughing::laughing::laughing:

I would have to ask lance but my wife thought they even talked shit on his web cast when families where complaining and worried.

I am 90% sure that I heard someone from RT tell Lance when he asked them why it wasn't up that, "the internet thing is just an extra feature, they are only paying for the tracking." or so something to that effect.

If that is the case, and if they can provide you all with proof that you either did or did not follow the course, then I think they did their job. If your contract with them said you were indeed paying for live coverage then yeah I could see you getting your money back.

Hammerking are the ones that choose this company and are also the ones that required you all to pay them for this service....

I am 90% sure that I heard someone from RT tell Lance when he asked them why it wasn't up that, "the internet thing is just an extra feature, they are only paying for the tracking." or so something to that effect.

If that is the case, and if they can provide you all with proof that you either did or did not follow the course, then I think they did their job. If your contract with them said you were indeed paying for live coverage then yeah I could see you getting your money back.

Hammerking are the ones that choose this company and are also the ones that required you all to pay them for this service....

I found promotions of "live internet tracking" prominently featured on three pages from their site in advertising of the "product". Service agreement or no, the product was not as advertised. The service agreement covered penalties for me if I damaged or failed to return the unit for any reason, but didn't even describe what I was getting for my money, leaving me to look at the product's advertising to determine what I was getting (course logging and live tracking, according to the previously mentioned three pages describing the product). As such, *if* they can prove that it did log properly, they can reasonably keep half my money.

The more I think about this & learn (about other races they have done, complaints people have made).

I'm wondering if they might have not paid their satellite bill.

Hammerking are the ones that choose this company and are also the ones that required you all to pay them for this service....

Yeah, and I'm pretty sure they got burned way more than any of the competitors did...

Yeah, and I'm pretty sure they got burned way more than any of the competitors did...

Big time:(

Here's what my sponsor thought of the situation, pretty much sums it up:



A lame excuse from Rally track. Our semi which was there also uses Hughes satellites and was working perfectly. We run 9 laptops on the internet on it all the time and they have always helped me when I have had connection problems. The satellite on our semi has internet phone via the Hughes net sat available also( they could have asked to use or for help). Not to mention you can drive 200 ft and your cell phone will work again. I had over 1000 employees waiting to track the 4 wheel Parts teams along with many other friends and family. There were large financial investments from all the sponsors and racers to support the teams and attend the race. For those of us who had prior work commitments and could not attend the race the rally track was the only way we would be truly connected with our teams during the race. I hope Rally track does the right thing and refunds our money or at the very least gives us a credit for next year’s KOH, a gesture of good faith on their part. I would like to thank the guys at Pirate4x4 for their on line coverage. Great job with the live camera and the race updates. We lived the race thru pirate4x4 on Friday. I also had it on the big screen at Truck Fest in an Mateo for all the vendors to follow along and support their teams. Thanks for the great partnership and 4 Wheel Parts looks forward to next year and hopefully a podium finish in the future.

Thanks

Brent

Car #343 was never able to be tracked for the entire race. Other than the Race Radio, my team never knew where we were at. I'll be looking for that refund Rally Track.............

Kevin Carey
Emick Racing (Co-Driver)

i am getting my money back :)

i am getting my money back :)

Hows that? :confused:


They just denied my claim and said they would investigate my problem further around the 10th ???

Bet they are filing Bankruptcy on the 9th! Or hopefully they filed for a bailout check and will be getting it on the 10th?:shaking:

Rick.

Hows that? :confused:




Hobie called his cc company and explained the lack of service, they're handling it.

Yeah, and I'm pretty sure they got burned way more than any of the competitors did...


Each competitor paid $127. We paid over $10,000. And there is potential that every driver that gets a refund gets added to our bill.

Please respect that I cannot comment anymore until this gets sorted out.

Dave

Edit: I was incorrect in my original figures.

And there is potential that every driver that gets a refund gets added to our bill.



:eek::eek::eek::(

Log in, second row across the top has a "Resolution Center" button in it. Click that, it'll pretty well walk you through, but the "open a dispute" button isn't exactly obvious. You have 45 days from when you paid to open a dispute, and 20 days from opening a dispute to either resolving or escalating it, so depending on when you paid, you might want to get on it soon or PayPal will tell you that it's too late.

Thanks Scott. I just checked it out I'm over the 45 days.

I am going to leave it alone. $125 was a very small part of the race budget and I think there was some placebo value in that the drivers did not know they were not working and therefor at least tried for the most part to do the right thing if they got off course.

Tracking was a bummer for my out of town family. I think they failed overall but I am gonna go make money and not waste 3 hours trying to get $ 125 back.

Wayne

Each competitor paid $127. We paid over $25,000. And there is potential that every driver that gets a refund gets added to our bill.

What exactly did you guys pay $25,000 for them to do? Just to provide you with the data that each car actually ran the course?

I wonder how much of this had to do with the angles with which they were mounting the trackers. When we pulled up to get ours they didn't like where we had for them to put it so they went to looking for an alternate spot. In the end they mounted it in the spot we had for them and they seemed fine with it.

Our spot like most of the others was far from level, partially blocked by our spare tire and within 3' of our radio antenna. All of these things were no-nos per there web site download for mounting.

I understand that in the rock trails the thing would never be level no matter how it was mounted but the rock trails were closed courses with only so many lines. 100' off of the canyon bottoms is not possible in most cases. So they loose the data in the rocks but have it for the desert sections no big deal. It just seems like they had no data for the most part.

We will not be trying to get our money back if it cost hammerking more money for us to do that.

What exactly did you guys pay $25,000 for them to do? Just to provide you with the data that each car actually ran the course?


I just corrected it, The total cost was ~25,000. We paid 10,000 up front so that the racer didn't get stuck with the full amount.

I'm not going to file a dispute, i have a cool paperweight that they must not want back very bad since they won't reply to e-mails or calls about getting it back to them :laughing:

I believe the units can be hard wire downloaded of there tracking data. So even though they didn't know where you were during the race they can check it afterwords.

My family was trying to follow along at work. They said the ralley track showed my car in the ocean just off the coast of Africa:shaking: Those guys were a joke.

logging the course is one of two things it did. and it accomplished that.

brodcasting over the net was another thing it was there for. it didn't accomplish that.

as dave said, they are working things out and i'm sure they will work out the best solution possible. Dave doesn't give in very easy. He's the best guy to have on your side right now.

let him do his magic and go from there.

I am going to leave it alone. $125 was a very small part of the race budget and I think there was some placebo value in that the drivers did not know they were not working and therefor at least tried for the most part to do the right thing if they got off course.

Tracking was a bummer for my out of town family. I think they failed overall but I am gonna go make money and not waste 3 hours trying to get $ 125 back.

Wayne

Im with you on this one.

Am I the only knuckle head who paid cash? I also gave my unit back Sat. morning. I guess I should have held on to it and at least used it as a target to get some satisfaction! Are we going to be able to get our money back? Maybe Jeff and Dave will sue the company. I know they spent a lot more than we did.

Am I the only knuckle head who paid cash?
No we paid cash seeing how we were an LCQ team. I think ours worked sometimes, crew ran to the trailer to check up on us couple times, first time they had no idea, second time they knew what mile. I'm more bummed it didn't work online since I was telling all my family,friends, and sponsors they could track us online. I do feel kinda cheated since the online didn't work, not sure I can do much about it though.

I guess I am disapointed like you about crew, family and friends not being able to track the race, more than the $$$. Even though we only made it 40 miles, before we lost our front output shaft on the T case. If the tracker worked at least my team would have been able to find us! We were lucky a KOH recovery guy was close by and towed us back after I gave my battery to #911. If it wasn't for him we may have been stuck for a long time! Next time maybe I will carry a flare gun?

My family was trying to follow along at work. They said the ralley track showed my car in the ocean just off the coast of Africa:shaking: Those guys were a joke.

One of the funnier moments about rally track was when people on the chat were asking where Bigelow was and someone mentioned he was just off the coast of Africa according to rally track! :laughing:

My family was trying to follow along at work. They said the ralley track showed my car in the ocean just off the coast of Africa:shaking: Those guys were a joke.

Are you admitting that you were off course?:D

Mine apparently worked, as when I was taking it off the buggy I snapped the antenna as it fell off my tire. I returned it to the truck and the guy said it transmitted up until 10 minutes before. They didnt ask me for more money but were ABSOLUTE dicks. Guess had I known the day they had with nothing working, I would have probably been a dick as well.

I'll wait to hear how Dave handles it with them, before taking any action against Rally Tracker. Last I heard Wayes was going to dig a hole in the desert for Dave to dump some RT guys in he was so mad :mad3:

Are you admitting that you were off course?:D

Only a little:flipoff2:

Each competitor paid $127. We paid over $10,000. And there is potential that every driver that gets a refund gets added to our bill.

Please respect that I cannot comment anymore until this gets sorted out.

Dave

Edit: I was incorrect in my original figures.

I'm curious, and if you want to hold comment until you sort this whole thing out that's cool, but why did you guys choose the Rally Tracker in the first place? I know both you and Jeff race in Baja and must have known about all the issues SCORE had and the racers (big name guys too) who essentially told Sal he could either contract with another company, or piss off. Rally tracker never even got close to a 50% success rate at any of the SCORE races they were used in, and there's at least 20,000 complaints about their poor customer service and reliability on RDC, so why not go with another company?

First thing I thought about when I saw the yellow bricks on buggies was "who's the first guy to send a glitter bomb to Rally Track?"

Rally Tracker sucked...plain and simple. Their attitudes sucked as well. Day before the race and I the old dude installing the units was the most complaining sucker on the lakebed and just plain had a shit attitude.

D&J I wont dispute the CC bill as 125$ and the KOH race means way more to me and knowing that I'm part of the solution instead of creating a problem for you guys.

I would trust in it that you guys will find a different method of tracking for next year with either more checkpoints or a better system.

It plain sucked in the fact that no one could track anyone and with my wife sitting 2700 miles away heard that I went into Aftershock. From some poeple and then heard that a rig was on fire(Bonneys) and heard nothing from me for hours as I was hoofing it out of AS to fix my alternator and then got going again only to break a shock in Outter Limits. That issue in itself sucked but all the other issues at hand with just about every driver lends itself to say that they were well unprepared for this race and not up to par to cover the great KOH race. Every other driver, team and the promoters bring their A game to this race. I would expect that those service providers like RT and others should do the same.

as I was hoofing it out of AS to fix my alternator

Ya the Rally tracker killed my alternator too..:stirthepot:

touche:D

It was very disappointing to not have the Rally Tracker working for our friends, fans, and relatives who wanted to follow the race. However, in the whole scope of expenses and things that went wrong it's a small thing to get our panties in a bunch over. I'm sure Dave and Jeff will do what they need to do for themselves and for next year.

Hammerking are the ones that choose this company and are also the ones that required you all to pay them for this service....

sounds like someone is still butthurt they didnt get an invite

Real world? Are you MTV now? The point you missed was that MY MOTHER was on Pirate4x4.com all day meaning your audience is growing. Not listening is a option you should want as few people to take as possible. Just sayin' its your business.

YOUR MOTHER doesn't buy parts from my advertisers, so honestly I don't care if she doesn't listen. My point being, no, we will never "watch our language". I cuss in real life, and so does everyone else (except maybe Nicole Johnson). If you don't like that, or your mother doesn't, she can wait for the nice cuss-free DVD that will be out in 6 months.

YOUR MOTHER doesn't buy parts from my advertisers, so honestly I don't care if she doesn't listen. My point being, no, we will never "watch our language". I cuss in real life, and so does everyone else (except maybe Nicole Johnson). If you don't like that, or your mother doesn't, she can wait for the nice and cuss-free DVD that will be out in 6 months.

Knowing Ron & Jean (Jeff's folks), I beg to differ about the parts thing.
They do wheel, so there is a good chance they might buy parts for their rig.

I see your point Lance, it's your business, so you can do/say what you want while doing it.
However, I think your opinion/language may change when Connor starts talking/repeating what he hears.

My daughter Madi (8) knows/plays with CJ (8) who is Jeff's daughter.
After she got home from school she kept coming in asking me how Jeff was doing in the race. I had to constantly mute the audio & hide the instant text blog because of what was said/type (I realize it was the idiots typing BS).

You want this sport, the board, and the event to grow.
Reaching as many people as possible should be your goal.
(I'm not saying it needs to be G-rated/Church talk, but graphically explicit language bugs me when kids are around).

Reaching as many people as possible should be your goal.
(I'm not saying it needs to be G-rated/Church talk, but graphically explicit language bugs me when kids are around).

Marketing 101...You reach more people, more effectively, by choosing a target market and catering to them. That does not include everyone. There was/will be other coverage of the race...those that don't want the info "Pirate style" don't have to get it from Pirate. I have kids, I'd prefer they don't repeat and do limit what they listen to...I know for sure that there are Pirate feeds they won't ever hear.

Knowing Ron & Jean (Jeff's folks), I beg to differ about the parts thing.
They do wheel, so there is a good chance they might buy parts for their rig.

I see your point Lance, it's your business, so you can do/say what you want while doing it.
However, I think your opinion/language may change when Connor starts talking/repeating what he hears.

My daughter Madi (8) knows/plays with CJ (8) who is Jeff's daughter.
After she got home from school she kept coming in asking me how Jeff was doing in the race. I had to constantly mute the audio & hide the instant text blog because of what was said/type (I realize it was the idiots typing BS).

You want this sport, the board, and the event to grow.
Reaching as many people as possible should be your goal.
(I'm not saying it needs to be G-rated/Church talk, but graphically explicit language bugs me when kids are around).

Jesus Christ, you act like it was an Andrew Dice Clay rebroadcast. :rolleyes:

Feel free to come out and do coverage at the next event for the 5 year olds and grandmas. I'll stick to the people that our website caters to.

I did not play the "live" feed, but I DID show some of the PBB KOH vids to my high school classes.

I watched them beforehand to make sure the language was legit for a HS classroom, and from what is available...most of them are fine.

YOUR MOTHER doesn't buy parts from my advertisers, so honestly I don't care if she doesn't listen. My point being, no, we will never "watch our language". I cuss in real life, and so does everyone else (except maybe Nicole Johnson). If you don't like that, or your mother doesn't, she can wait for the nice cuss-free DVD that will be out in 6 months.


I tend to agree. I'm certainly not one to impose rules on free enterprise. I considered it a good thing that Pirate has reached the moms of the sport and was complimenting you on the growth.
People need to get off the idea the world needs to raise their kids for them. I was forwarding a comment from my mom mostly for some feedback for you. I personally thought the coverage was great and perfectly PG enough for the audience even though IMHO some of these clowns over do it and sound pretty unprofessional in the eyes and ears of corporate America.
Cheers

Some of you need to realize that Lance didn't charge you any $ to listen, he offered this up for free for viewers. It looked to me like it ended up being a ton of work for him and crew, compounded with a bunch of whiney babies on the chat. If you dont like it turn it off, I thought it was refreshing to hear "normal" people BSing about racing. i was glued to it for days.

What is that old saying "dont look a gift horse in the mouth" or some such retarded thing.

I tend to agree. I'm certainly not one to impose rules on free enterprise. I considered it a good thing that Pirate has reached the moms of the sport and was complimenting you on the growth.
People need to get off the idea the world needs to raise their kids for them. I was forwarding a comment from my mom mostly for some feedback for you. I personally thought the coverage was great and perfectly PG enough for the audience even though IMHO some of these clowns over do it and sound pretty unprofessional in the eyes and ears of corporate America.
Cheers

Fair enough. I was a little defensive as I didn't feel every other word was MF while I was doing the coverage. I may have slipped somethign out like "holy shit, Mello is getting it!!!" but I certainly didn't make it a point to drop any f-bombs. I did get pissed off a few times at some of the idiots in the chat room and cuss them out though. :laughing:

If I could rate our coverage, I would have given it a PG-13 rating. Now the after hours video feeds, that's another story! :eek: :laughing:

now the after hours video feeds, that's another story! :eek: :laughing:

:d :d

I just talked to the guy at Rally Track again. He said that he would be releasing the data that he has on Monday or tuesday as soon as he finishes checking out all of the tracking devises.
He confirmed that the trackers store the individule data also. So even though they were not able to track me during the race, it is likely that the data was saved in the unit and I will be able to get it next week.

Maybe next year tracking costs should be incorporated as part of the entry fee. The bill will be entirely on Jeff and Dave, but at least if there's a problem it's for them to sort out and not a mob of 92 angry racers who feel cheated?

From: http://www.rallytrack.com/KOH/post_event.htm
"The only piece of the puzzle that did not function properly was the sending of tracking data from the RallyTrack Rig to the Live.RallyTrack.com server and it was directly caused by the HughesNet satellite service blocking our POP3 messages. "



I'm gonna call bullshit on this. POP3 is for pulling messages off a server mail server, not sending data. Either its a typo or they are flat out lying to you.

I'm gonna call bullshit on this. POP3 is for pulling messages off a server mail server, not sending data. Either its a typo or they are flat out lying to you.

I had no idea how many experts there were out there:shaking:

Here's the deal:

We needed Rallytrack for 4 reasons:

The percentage indicates how effective they were. I won't know for certain on 2 and 3 until I get the final report from Rally Track

1) Keeping the drivers honest by the mere presence of the tracker (100%)
2) Storing the data for download and checking post race (80%*)
3) Transmitting back to camp for race ops knowledge (50%*)
4) Broadcasting to the Internet (0%)


First I'll answer to the POP3 deal. The system was based on a GPS board transmitting current location via HAM radio to a repeater and then back to camp. Once the data was at camp, they batched the data and pushed it via email to a server that would take the data and convert and overlay to a map. Hughes Net didn't kill his access but blocked all email coming and going.

This is the part that burns me the most and Craig knows it. Hughes Net was down as of Thursday night. We had a backup plan im place for him to move his rig to the cell phone tree and access the web via cell. He got the sat fired up but did not make the correct decisions during the day that would put him into 'backup' mode. He also did not communicate the root cause of the issue until after the race. This is the one thing that has my blood boiling.

As far as any of the other performance items. It did work to deter cheating. It did work to validate most of the top 10 course routes. It was disappointing with regards to transmitting back to camp, but I am confident that the competition would be the same or worse. The bottom line, the industry standard uses Sat Phones for the method of transmission. That is proven 100% failure in the canyons. We needed to try something different. This was a new concept using existing technology.

I find it ironic that some of the same people that complaining about RT are also complaining that we didn't have enough rules. And they were the same people that called me all of last year to make sure we did something about the teams that were cheating the course.

Did it work perfectly, no. Are we happy with the results, no. Did it help us gain control of 92 racers buzzing around the desert, yes. It did.

Teams spent $125 because we mandated them to do it. We mandated it because a great majority of the teams placed an expectation on us to curb cheating. With the expectation to have a longer course, with zero overlap (remember, that was the hot topic last year), with more demand for volunteers for crowd control (leaving less for checkpoints), this was best solution. We spent well over $10,000 of our own money to mitigate the burden on the teams. Our intention was to make a large initial investment so that we had a place to grow from. In affect we spent alot of money that I don't see a future return on. We did everything we could to make this as successful and painless for the teams and drivers.


That is my perspective, I am sharing it despite advice from counsel to the contrary. We have been forthright at every turn and this is no different.

Dave, I don't think anyone is blaming you or Jeff for this deal.

You guys made the best decision you could with the info that was availible at the time you did it with our best interests in mind.

The system failed, and that was fully out of your control.

Dave, I don't think anyone is blaming you or Jeff for this deal.

You guys made the best decision you could with the info that was availible at the time you did it with our best interests in mind.

The system failed, and that was fully out of your control.

I know. But there is so much speculation and rumors... I thought it best to clear the air. Plus no one has smacked me in the chops today, I miss the taste of blood:flipoff2:

Plus no one has smacked me in the chops today, I miss the taste of blood:flipoff2:

Want me to call your brother Chris? You guys could replay that deal in Mexico:laughing::laughing:

First I'll answer to the POP3 deal. The system was based on a GPS board transmitting current location via HAM radio to a repeater and then back to camp. Once the data was at camp, they batched the data and pushed it via email to a server that would take the data and convert and overlay to a map. Hughes Net didn't kill his access but blocked all email coming and going.


Yeah it sounds like a commercial version of APRS. My point being is that you would never PUSH data with POP3, mainly because you cant. If they were trying to send data to their mail server it would be via SMTP which last time I checked hughes blocks. Sorry I am just a stickler for details and if a tech based company put that kind of crap on their website as an excuse.... Well I will just leave it as that.

Anyways, I hope this all gets worked out and I am looking forward to KOH 2010.

I know. But there is so much speculation and rumors... I thought it best to clear the air. Plus no one has smacked me in the chops today, I miss the taste of blood:flipoff2:

I'd like to apologize for the knee jerk remark to "clean up your mess" I've always championed a fair fight and have not always been impressed with some sanctioning bodies care and earnest in providing it (which is frustrating as hell to me).You guys did, and are providing it but a great idea failed do to someone else's negligence and incompetence. At the time of that post I felt like we had lost ground to last year but if #2 above is 80% that's a satisfactory improvement. Next time I'll take a deep breath and wait.

I had no idea how many experts there were out there:shaking:

Here's the deal:

We needed Rallytrack for 4 reasons:

The percentage indicates how effective they were. I won't know for certain on 2 and 3 until I get the final report from Rally Track

1) Keeping the drivers honest by the mere presence of the tracker (100%)
2) Storing the data for download and checking post race (80%*)
3) Transmitting back to camp for race ops knowledge (50%*)
4) Broadcasting to the Internet (0%)


First I'll answer to the POP3 deal. The system was based on a GPS board transmitting current location via HAM radio to a repeater and then back to camp. Once the data was at camp, they batched the data and pushed it via email to a server that would take the data and convert and overlay to a map. Hughes Net didn't kill his access but blocked all email coming and going.

<other good info snipped>



It is a drag for KOH 2009 that this technology wasn't thoroughly working. Seems like you were done a disservice despite the achieved goals but that's your deal of course. Best of luck sorting it out.

I suspect the HAM reference simply is a typo. Could you please calrify?

I raise it because use of the HAM radio frequency spectrum in pursuit of a commercial endeavor can bring the wrath of the generally self-policing ham community, not to mention the possibility of very hefty FCC fines. Either of these things could put the overall venture at risk for the future.

I am betting they know better and are using commercial frequencies, just hate to see this add to the situation.

It is a drag for KOH 2009 that this technology wasn't thoroughly working. Seems like you were done a disservice despite the achieved goals but that's your deal of course. Best of luck sorting it out.

I suspect the HAM reference simply is a typo. Could you please calrify?

I raise it because use of the HAM radio frequency spectrum in pursuit of a commercial endeavor can bring the wrath of the generally self-policing ham community, not to mention the possibility of very hefty FCC fines. Either of these things could put the overall venture at risk for the future.

I am betting they know better and are using commercial frequencies, just hate to see this add to the situation.


It is completely legal when administered by a licensed HAM operator, which the owner of RallyTrack is. He also worked directly with the operators of the local repeater sites. It was completely legit.