I think you all know the answer to that one. If not, Pete was right this time. :flipoff2:

I think you all know the answer to that one. If not, Pete was right this time. :flipoff2:

I think the race was won in the desert and lost in the rocks :flipoff2:

The rocks still played a big role, especially with bottlenecks. But if you were not fast in the desert you did not have a chance

I saw a lot more broken rigs in the desert than in the rocks.

My race was lost trying to find the pit 2. My other problems were in the rocks.

My race was lost trying to find the pit 2.

I'm trying not to laugh... But it was kinda funny! :flipoff2:

My race was lost trying to find the pit 2. My other problems were in the rocks.

was pit 2 near the rocks or in the middle of the desert

We lost an hour to other rigs stuck in front of us in the rocks and lost an hour to a bad fan relay. We only passed people in the desert.

I think Camo nailed it. Won in the desert lost in the rocks.

So let's look at it this way... CP1 was 23 miles from the start.

Jason Scherer Did the first 23 miles in 47:53. His car is geared towards the desert more than rocks. Hobie Smith was driving an FToy which of course is a rough ride in the desert, but I think it's fair to say can scoot through the rocks pretty good. It took him 1.08:42 to make the first 23 miles. That's a 21 minute difference in 23 miles. :eek: I don't know if Hobie had any issues in that first 23 miles though.

The rocks presented opportunities for the average team to seperate themselves from the competition.

Adam Woodlee said he never went faster than 60 yet finished 8th.

Wayne Israelson passed 9 cars on the waterfall of Aftershock.

The guys that won were obviously good at both, but the secret to placing well was not getting hung up in the rocks.

To win you had to be able to haul ass in the desert and make it through the rocks.

If you were out there just to place then an Ftoy pace probably would have helped a lot of people not DNF.

We lost major time stuck behind broken rigs in the rocks, but we also lost a bunch of time to bad decisions in the rocks. I think the desert provided opportunity to do well, and the rocks provided opportunity to fawk up, and to place well you had to be good at both. Definitely the time spent in both was more balanced this year than last year, and much of the desert stuff was difficult terrain to go fast in. Jeff and Dave did a great job on the course, it was interesting and fun.....and brutal.

Brutal it was. Having the harder rock sections all at the end sucked big time!

We lost in the garage.

It was way more even then last year. Its a close call. Id sitll say Rocks. But 20 more miles of desert and theyd be dead even.

We lost in the garage.

Join the club.

We lost, like several others, in the LCQ :shaking:

Lost in rocks. I broke tryin to get around a guy stuck in the rocks. I saw a lot of jams and guys mad when I passed them becuase they where bein too nice and waitin.

I'm going to be loosing when the credit card bill comes, lol.

I think it was an even mix between dez and rocks this year.

I'm going to be loosing when the credit card bill comes, lol.

I think it was an even mix between dez and rocks this year.

Big dittos!

Why was it so expensive to go race a rig that was already wheeling every month? :eek:

I'd say rocks had a greater impact.

I know I was slow in the desert. Especially the middle desert sections where we fought a overheating problem where I probably lost 20-30 minutes untill I figured out what was going on. And then the limp to the finish line was painfully slow. Thought the front of the chassis was going to come off on a couple of hits...

I do know that I probably only ever came to a stop and or hit reverse about 6 or 7 times in the rocks the whole race.

Big dittos!

Why was it so expensive to go race a rig that was already wheeling every month? :eek:


For us it was the:
-Race Radio's
-Retrofitting the rig for anything longer than a 1/4 mile (spare, headlights, rocklights, onboard air, tool storage on rig)
-Diesel to get there
-Vacation (the week and a half off from work to travel and wheel)
-fuel out the ass while there (buggy, genie, fitties, 4 wheeler)
-Obsurd amount of broken parts replacement all week long
-Rally crapper
-Non-resident OHV stickers for 5 things
-Over $600 just in beer

Won or lost, rocks or desert. HOLY SHIT!!!

We were totally not prepared for the desert beating. I almost rented a drag magnet to catch all the parts falling off the rig all week in the desert. My buggy is now held together with tack welds! No shit.....fasteners (nuts/bolts), "C" clips so many have tacks on them now to keep them from backing off and thats with RED LOCTITE, and lock washers, and lock nuts (not nylocks).

Shit just shakes loose, goes through heating and cooling cycles and just comes apart. Saw some really cool solutions we havent used or thought of, example: drilled wheelstuds and running a Hairpin cotter pins to keep the lugnuts from backing off.

I wouldn't change it for the world. Bad ass time.

For us it was the:
I almost rented a drag magnet to catch all the parts falling off the rig all week in the desert.

:laughing::laughing::laughing: Too funny!

[QUOTE=AMJ;9516604]To win you had to be able to haul ass in the desert and make it through the rocks.

QUOTE]

Thanks John Madden.

“Hey, the offensive linemen are the biggest guys on the field, they're bigger than everybody else, and that's what makes them the biggest guys on the field.”

We lost, like several others, in the LCQ :shaking:

Don't feel bad. You didn't lose $125 cash to Rally Tracker! :flipoff2:


I'd say the race was won in the desert sections. Seemed like the whoops and g-outs beat up the cars more than the trails.

Is it me or is there really no debate here? From what I saw while out there you must run near perfect in both the desert and the rocks to win. A little mistake here and there and you still have a chance, but unless you pull both off nearly perfect making the top 10 is the best you'll do, you must be good in both. I think it would be fair to say the rocks took 50% out and the desert took the other 50%, the rest were decided by how many errors they made and how much average speed(both in the rock sections and desert) they could maintain.

We lost in the garage.

Funny

We lost, like several others, in the LCQ :shaking:

Funnier

I'm going to be loosing when the credit card bill comes, lol.

.

Funniest. :lmao:

We were totally not prepared for the desert beating. I almost rented a drag magnet to catch all the parts falling off the rig all week in the desert. My buggy is now held together with tack welds! No shit.....fasteners (nuts/bolts), "C" clips so many have tacks on them now to keep them from backing off and thats with RED LOCTITE, and lock washers, and lock nuts (not nylocks).

Shit just shakes loose, goes through heating and cooling cycles and just comes apart. Saw some really cool solutions we havent used or thought of, example: drilled wheelstuds and running a Hairpin cotter pins to keep the lugnuts from backing off.

I wouldn't change it for the world. Bad ass time.

Working in the Maxxis pit, we had an incredible team putting these rigs back together. EVERY car that came in had loose suspensions bolts all over them.. These cars were just getting BEAT!! Red locktite, lock nuts, carter pins, kastle nuts, wire tied... Every one has a year to get this shit figured out:flipoff2:

It was a super cool and brutal race! I'd like to see even more desert next year, cause the debate isn't over of "just how fast can a rock crawler be"...:D

This year was crazy...Next year is going to be the baddest race ever hosted...

-Tim

was pit 2 near the rocks or in the middle of the desert

It was near the rocks in the middle of the desert. :laughing:

It was near the rocks in the middle of the desert. :laughing:

Guess you gotta say rocks since it was at the ARCA pile...but in between AF and OL, in the desert

Working in the Maxxis pit, we had an incredible team putting these rigs back together.
-Tim

Tim-
Where you at the BFG remote? I was the buggy that came in on BFG's that had the Maxxis guys weld on my chassis because you had the welder out and ready to rock. I greatly appreciate it! The BFG crew just chilled in their lawn chairs, looking on. I found it humorous and was very very grateful Maxxis supported a team on the other guys tires.

Thanks,
Wyatt

Hobie Smith was driving an FToy which of course is a rough ride in the desert, but I think it's fair to say can scoot through the rocks pretty good. It took him 1.08:42 to make the first 23 miles. That's a 21 minute difference in 23 miles. :eek: I don't know if Hobie had any issues in that first 23 miles though.


nope, no issues lance, other than a few slow rigs holding me up. i was getting it, as much as my ftoy was setup to go. sure it could be a bit faster, but not 21 minutes faster.

its definetly a combination of both. i saw tons of guys on the rocks that were just plain slow. it seemed they had really nice rigs, but just plain driving too slow.

the only fast person i was around all day on the rocks, well the only person who passed me on the rocks too, was shannon campbell. when he came by me, i wanted to see what it would take to pace him.

at the time i was wheeling up claw in 4.7 to 1 in 2nd gear with 5.29 and 37's around 3 to 4k rpm. when he came by me, i put it in 2.28 to 1 and 1st gear and he was still pulling away from me :eek:

so that means, to win on the rocks, you must drive the hammer trails with "stockish" gearing. 2nd gear with stock tcase low range is how fast you have to go:eek:

I think last year people ran the desert section and though "that's not so bad" but that was about half the desert of this years course, doubling the desert section's length caught a lot of people out IMO. Yes there were break-downs in the rocks and stuck rigs, but how much of that was due to shaking something loose/ fracturing it in the desert or drivers being beat-up and exhausted from the desert sections. Even among the finishers, there were a lot of broken things that happened in the desert. The desert racer in my wants to see 100 miles of desert before you even get to touch a rock, then run all the rocks and have another 50 miles of desert running at night, now that would be an epic race:grinpimp:


Working in the Maxxis pit, we had an incredible team putting these rigs back together. EVERY car that came in had loose suspensions bolts all over them.. These cars were just getting BEAT!! Red locktite, lock nuts, carter pins, kastle nuts, wire tied... Every one has a year to get this shit figured out

I'm really curious on why that mite be. I do the nut and bolt check during prep on 5 desert trucks and 1 bug, and re-check them after every race, never had a bolt fall out during a race and only ever found 2 loose bolts after a race and those were due to wallowed out lower A-arm mounts. That's on trucks that do 100+ through whoops for 250 miles minimum, and we usually go 3-4 races between a full tear-down, way more abuse than what buggies are seeing in the desert for KOH. No Loc-Tite, no cotter pins, just new stovers and Grade-8/F-911 hardware and a torque wrench, only things that get safety wire are brake calipers. Are guys re-using hardware? Torquing to the wrong specs? I know a KOH car takes more of a beating at 60 through the desert than a desert truck takes at 90 though the same section, but that should be breaking link bolts, not loosening them, an <100 miles of desert should not be enough to do it.


so that means, to win on the rocks, you must drive the hammer trails with "stockish" gearing. 2nd gear with stock tcase low range is how fast you have to go:eek:

You forgot, Shannon broke his junk at those speeds before he caught you, what's important is how fast he could go and still finish. If the same thing happens next year I fully expect you to drop the hammer, catch him and leave a giant F-Toy print on his rear bumper:flipoff2:

now that would be an epic race:grinpimp:

This year's race was epic. I think "raising the bar" on the length and difficulty every year would be counterproductive personally.





You forgot, Shannon broke his junk at those speeds before he caught you

I think it is pretty cool to point out that Shannon fixed his tranny and then ran the race clean. No major breaks, flats, etc and he was running HARD.

To win you had to be able to haul ass in the desert and make it through the rocks.


Agreed, if you did decent in the desert and just SURVIVED the rock sections, where the average times per trail were probably closer together then the desert sections, you have a decent chance of placing high!

Some time pre-running the course helps immensely as well! Out of the top 10 who finished their car ON the lakebed, a few days before the race, and barely had any time to test and tune the rigs?

Tim-
Where you at the BFG remote? I was the buggy that came in on BFG's that had the Maxxis guys weld on my chassis because you had the welder out and ready to rock. I greatly appreciate it! The BFG crew just chilled in their lawn chairs, looking on. I found it humorous and was very very grateful Maxxis supported a team on the other guys tires.

Thanks,
Wyatt


:beer:

This year's race was epic. I think "raising the bar" on the length and difficulty every year would be counterproductive personally.



I tend to agree. Until the attrition rate gets a lot lower with the majority of the field finishing, I don't think it needs to get much more epic.

We also need to remember that this is still a daylight race and we had racers on the course well after dark.

Working in the Maxxis pit, we had an incredible team putting these rigs back together. EVERY car that came in had loose suspensions bolts all over them.. These cars were just getting BEAT!! Red locktite, lock nuts, carter pins, kastle nuts, wire tied... Every one has a year to get this shit figured out:flipoff2:

It was a super cool and brutal race! I'd like to see even more desert next year, cause the debate isn't over of "just how fast can a rock crawler be"...:D

This year was crazy...Next year is going to be the baddest race ever hosted...

-Tim

clicky (http://www.whizwheels.com/Tips/safetywiring.html) :grinpimp:

run the same course in the oppisite direction for 2010

bob

www.extremewheelers4christ.org

this year was the tougher desert, now bring on bigger rocks.

In the shop, and in the drivers seat. Everything else is just dirt and rocks. How you drive, what you drive is what wins it.

this year was the tougher desert, now bring on bigger rocks.


The rocks sections were slow enough using the "easy" rocks IMO.

Perfect actually.

I want to personally thank the guys that dug out the ledge on Sledge. :grinpimp:

of course it was won in the desert, i saw NO racers modifying thier rigs to work better in the rocks.....all mods were to go faster in the desert......why would shannon abandon last years winning car to build a rig to go even faster in the desert sections..........and navigation errors cost another front runner this year, just like last year.............ITS A DESERT RACE WITH GNARLY OBSTACLES!!!!!! ...........and i cant wait till next year.....bigger field, bigger course, tougher race!

of course it was won in the desert, i saw NO racers modifying thier rigs to work better in the rocks.....all mods were to go faster in the desert......why would shannon abandon last years winning car to build a rig to go even faster in the desert sections..........and navigation errors cost another front runner this year, just like last year.............ITS A DESERT RACE WITH GNARLY OBSTACLES!!!!!! ...........and i cant wait till next year.....bigger field, bigger course, tougher race!

Why would they have to modify their rigs to work in the rocks? They are ROCKcrawlers to begin with.

I passed as many people on the rocks as I did on in the desert. Usually broken down in the desert and hung up in the rocks. Mine was a rock rig so I just tried to keep a good pace through the desert.

The thing is, people were overdriving their rigs in the desert. Just plain too fast, too out of control. That will stop as rigs get better and drivers get better. I expect in the next few years the desert will become more important than the rocks.

Just finished watching Easy Ricks in car video of the desert section. :grinpimp: with no traffic, dude would have shaved huge time off of his cp1 split.

Still want some of the new school trails in the race. That'd really show off the killer multi-purpose designs that raced this year.

Sledge was dug out Wednesday afternoon when we went through. But there were a lot of rigs (even a JK) behind us...

I think the race was won in the desert and lost in the rocks :flipoff2:

x2!

I saw a lot more broken rigs in the desert than in the rocks.

We lost in the garage.

I think the rigs that were broken in the first 23 miles of desert were beaten in the garage, not the desert.

The rigs that had a ton of tuning and testing---and very good race prep--had no problem in either the rocks or the desert--and it then came down to driver choices and skill in the rocks.

Given that the front runners had very few bottleneck issues, I'd say it was won in the desert, maybe in the 1st 30 miles of desert. If you could work through the field and run up front through aftershock and sunbonnet, you were by yourself most of the day or dealing with minor hangups due to other cars. This lets you run the best, fastest lines in the rocks and not have to take any chances passing in the rocks. It's possible to catch up dodging bottlenecks and taking risky lines but not nearly like putting that same team in clean air.

The winners won the desert dragrace to get up front which let them run cleaner and easier.

And given that we have a fairly fast car in the desert (not blazing by any means but easy to drive) and were fairly slow in the rocks and were in contention for a top 5 by just running with no problems, prep work is huge.

of course it was won in the desert, i saw NO racers modifying thier rigs to work better in the rocks.....all mods were to go faster in the desert......why would shannon abandon last years winning car to build a rig to go even faster in the desert sections..........and navigation errors cost another front runner this year, just like last year.............ITS A DESERT RACE WITH GNARLY OBSTACLES!!!!!! ...........and i cant wait till next year.....bigger field, bigger course, tougher race!

I have to agree with Ky scrambled. Pete the majority of people were starting with with rock crawlers and are from rock crawling back rounds. Of course the car can already crawl so why would you throw money at the car to crawl better for this race. I am sure you would have to do alot of stuff to say a Pro 4 CORR truck to make it crawl in the rocks. I know it will go fast in the desert but do you think it could even go down Resolution or back door. Do you think that you could take any kind of desert or short course racing truck and stand a chance at KOH. Probably not. :shaking:

I think that the rocks were just as important as the desert but if you were able to be faster in the desert you stood a better chance. If your car could hold up in the rocks.:p

I'm going to be loosing when the credit card bill comes, lol.

I think it was an even mix between dez and rocks this year.

I had no idea that play a french horn paid so much. I think its time to get my trombone out and come try out there. I played for 15 years then one day closed my gig bag for the last time.

I have to agree with Ky scrambled. Pete the majority of people were starting with with rock crawlers and are from rock crawling back rounds. Of course the car can already crawl so why would you throw money at the car to crawl better for this race. I am sure you would have to do alot of stuff to say a Pro 4 CORR truck to make it crawl in the rocks. I know it will go fast in the desert but do you think it could even go down Resolution or back door. Do you think that you could take any kind of desert or short course racing truck and stand a chance at KOH. Probably not. :shaking:

I think that the rocks were just as important as the desert but if you were able to be faster in the desert you stood a better chance. If your car could hold up in the rocks.:p

Well said. Finding the balance between rock vs. desert is the key. I still think the race was won in the desert sections. Maybe if the course was shorter with more rock trails I would think otherwise.