For us it was not pulling line after we got denied at the Plaque on Sledge. We kept trying different lines, then the same lines differently, all to no avail. While we were working the right, Brian Shirly jumped up the left and broke, completely blocking the trail.

If only we would have pulled line...............I'm losing sleep over that one.

I think it just came down to me and Aaron being totally beat and just not thinking clearly. There's always next year.

Not paying attention on Sunbonnet!!!!

2 Years straight and that stupid trail has flung me over into a hole.
It was quickly obvious that I need to be out driving more often.

Oh yeah and not venting the crankcase properly, cylinders full of oil don't work so good.....................................




Maybe it was selling the F-Toy, I don't which my biggest screw up was.

I have two, one was passing Jason Scherer, and the second was the same as yours, not pulling rope when I knew the car was already hurt.(dead rear ARB)

Easy.

Not bringing gas with us from Tennessee and trusting California gas from shady gas stations which messed up more than just us. I'm used to getting 93 from any station and rolling on. Been doing that since 2004 with no issues until last week. Lesson learned.

Entering check 2 wrong and smashing my oil pan on back door. If we had not had these two problems we would have been 1st. Next year we will come better prepped.

If only we would have pulled line...............I'm losing sleep over that one.




Roggy will tell you that not pulling line on sunbonnet ended their day. actually they tried to pull line but the rope was not attached to the drum properly and keep slipping. rather then mess with it they tried to hammer over the obstacle one more time and shoved the crossmember so far up it snapped the trans in 2

Clay (#90) didn't make the sand hill at the beginning Resolution in high 2wd. When backing up to adjust he blindly hit the only rock in 200 feet and flopped him sideways. It took 2 hours to get the rig un hydrolocked. Only major problem all day.

Not bringing gas with us from Tennessee and trusting California gas from shady gas stations which messed up more than just us. I'm used to getting 93 from any station and rolling on. Been doing that since 2004 with no issues until last week. Lesson learned.

I don't get it? What was wrong with the gas?? It worked fine for me?

I don't get it? What was wrong with the gas?? It worked fine for me?

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=765680

Page 2 and 3.

It's speculation on the gas. It could have been breaking down before on us, but I don't think so.

We had all the fuel lines apart the week before putting in ball valves. Everything was clean. We have a big pre filter and it looked new the week before. Now, one week later that same pre filter and all our fuel lines are so full of foam and debris it looked like a rat's nest? :confused: I was banging the fuel pump and crap was even coming out of it.

Other guys in that thread I posted a link to described other problems.

I know Rusty said he had problems as well with crap in his fuel lines.

Derek West had water in his gas. All dumb stuff that revolves around gas.

Ours was not pre-running the desert sections to find out we were overheating bad. Don't know if we could of fixed it or not, but it sucked

Not paying attention on Sunbonnet!!!!

2 Years straight and that stupid trail has flung me over into a hole.
It was quickly obvious that I need to be out driving more often.

Oh yeah and not venting the crankcase properly, cylinders full of oil don't work so good.....................................




Maybe it was selling the F-Toy, I don't which my biggest screw up was.

Brett thanks for the loaner tire/wheel we will get it back to you as soon as I get with Jake

Not having the buggy done in time was the big one, and caused multiple problems. Because we were still working on the buggy we had no time to even look at the race course, and with no GPS experience we had a hard time staying on course. I don't know how strict they were going to be about it, but there were multiple times that we ended up over 100 feet off course.

I'd say our biggest mistake was not going around the traffic jam to the waterfall on Aftershock. Instead, I kept telling Derek to be patient, that it was a long race and we were on the first rock trail.

We got passed by 6 or so rigs right there, and sat for 20 minutes or more.

I shall never listen to my voice of reason again.

:D


I felt like we had too much psi in the tires and we wouldn't be able to sidehill too good. I also give major props to the first buggy to do it...gutsy move I thought. I think it was Brian Shirley.

We had a number of mistakes. Biggest was not securing our spare driveline well enough, it loosened in the whoops and slipped off the mount and broke off the schrader valve on our air shock.

Another big one was not driving a tippy line around another rig at the top of Resolution when they burned up wiring right in front of us. Instead we tried to push them a few feet so we could get by, which didn't work and then we where diff'ed hard and couldn't back up on the steep incline. That cost us 35 minutes, while a couple other rigs took the line around and passed.

I'd say our biggest mistake was not going around the traffic jam to the waterfall on Aftershock...You still could have taken the line to the left. A few people took the left line and pulled rope. You could have passed a few people who were all lined up waiting to take the right line.

The line did get a bit long at times...
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e24/Triaged/Racing/KOH%202009/IMG_1276.jpg

You still could have taken the line to the left. A few people took the left line and pulled rope. You could have passed a few people who were all lined up waiting to take the right line.

The line did get a bit long at times...
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e24/Triaged/Racing/KOH%202009/IMG_1276.jpg
Taken just before we got there. Must of cost us 20 to 30 minutes. 90% of that time because one rig wouldn't pull rope.

Biggest mistake was getting high centered on Out Limits, all my fault told John to go the wrong way over an obstacle. Fortunately Mustard Dog stop and pulled us out. Don't think we lost more than 5 or 10 minutes though.

For us it was not pulling line after we got denied at the Plaque on Sledge. We kept trying different lines, then the same lines differently, all to no avail. While we were working the right, Brian Shirly jumped up the left and broke, completely blocking the trail.

If only we would have pulled line...............I'm losing sleep over that one.

I think it just came down to me and Aaron being totally beat and just not thinking clearly. There's always next year.

Mustard, I have one question for you.... Who was yelling at you to use your winch right there?










:flipoff2:

Taken just before we got there. Must of cost us 20 to 30 minutes. 90% of that time because one rig would pull rope.

Biggest mistake was getting high centered on Out Limits, all my fault told John to go the wrong way over an obstacle. Fortunately Mustard Dog stop and pulled us out. Don't think we lost more than 5 or 10 minutes though.

I get a kick out of the people that wish the course was harder. That obstical is on the EASIEST trail of them all.:laughing::evil::flipoff2:

I get a kick out of the people that wish the course was harder. That obstical is on the EASIEST trail of them all.:laughing::evil::flipoff2:Now you are just being mean:evil::flipoff2:

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e24/Triaged/Racing/KOH%202009/IMG_1280.jpg

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e24/Triaged/Racing/KOH%202009/IMG_1282.jpg

Mustard, I have one question for you.... Who was yelling at you to use your winch right there?



:flipoff2:

To be honest, I don't even know.......So many people were yelling so many different things I just blocked them all out and concentrated on my co-driver, plus the fog of war was setting in.

It was probably Pistol, and I should have listened.

To be honest, I don't even know.......So many people were yelling so many different things I just blocked them all out and concentrated on my co-driver, plus the fog of war was setting in.

It was probably Pistol, and I should have listened.
I remember hearing the crowd cheer when I got out to pull rope.

Ive been racing xc atv's for years. There is no way I would be sitting waiting in line .. if there is a way im comming by ! look out ~! snooze ya loose ... I wish I could afford to build a race rig.

The plaque line on Sledge was definatly a place to test how a team can work together under pressure. It was total chaos. That's why Mike Hendricks is my co-driver. NOTHING bothers him! Good Times!

To be honest, I don't even know.......So many people were yelling so many different things I just blocked them all out and concentrated on my co-driver, plus the fog of war was setting in.

It was probably Pistol, and I should have listened.

ding ding ding, we have a winner! He said he was practically begging you to winch!

Another big one was not driving a tippy line around another rig at the top of Resolution when they burned up wiring right in front of us. Instead we tried to push them a few feet so we could get by, which didn't work and then we where diff'ed hard and couldn't back up on the steep incline. That cost us 35 minutes, while a couple other rigs took the line around and passed.

I cringed when I saw you pulling up behind him, then the front end dropped below his spare, then you diffed in hard. :( It was tough to watch.

Not taking the day off work and trying to watch the feed through the National Defence firewall...thank god for the blog updates 'till I could get home.

You still could have taken the line to the left. A few people took the left line and pulled rope. You could have passed a few people who were all lined up waiting to take the right line.

The line did get a bit long at times...
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e24/Triaged/Racing/KOH%202009/IMG_1276.jpg

Nicole and Usnick were broken at the top when we got there, we went of the side of the canyon back where people are sitting on the right, Jody and Shannon showed up about then, and Shannon drove over Usnick somehow, and Jody turtled and went of the canyon wall as well.

We heard Greg Adler barrelrolled here with Nicole spotting him, true?

Nicole and Usnick were broken at the top when we got there, we went of the side of the canyon back where people are sitting on the right, Jody and Shannon showed up about then, and Shannon drove over Usnick somehow, and Jody turtled and went of the canyon wall as well.

We heard Greg Adler barrelrolled here with Nicole spotting him, true?

This line? I wasn't there all day...I left when I saw F-toys come through:flipoff2:
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e24/Triaged/Racing/KOH%202009/IMG_1290.jpg

This is the only shot I got of someone taking the left line.
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e24/Triaged/Racing/KOH%202009/IMG_1298.jpg

Yellow Jody, Red is what we tried.

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j19/InDashop/Stuff/IMG_1290.jpg

Running 10 psi .....

Too much or too little?

This line? I wasn't there all day...I left when I saw F-toys come through:flipoff2:
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e24/Triaged/Racing/KOH%202009/IMG_1290.jpg

This is the only shot I got of someone taking the left line.
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e24/Triaged/Racing/KOH%202009/IMG_1298.jpg

That was me taking the left line, I sat there for 10 minutes trying to be patient and not break something. Finally I had enough when there were two cars rolled over and we went up and out the left line. Not to mention I had just watched, Brian, Adam and others pass me on that upper line.

I saw that upper left line and took it within 2 minutes of sitting there. I did jump out of the car to scope it first.

wayne

Running 10 psi .....

eek... that sounds way to low. me thinks 18- 20 was the call

eek... that sounds way to low. me thinks 18- 20 was the call

But that makes you slip and slide on the rock trails, and most likely hurts you in the sand. It's all a compromise. I got frustrated and had air let out of all four tires at pit 1. One of the elements of each teams strategy......

One of the interesting things about the race is that the trails were harder than usual in places because of the higher air pressures we were running.

If only we would have pulled line...............I'm losing sleep over that one.

I think it just came down to me and Aaron being totally beat and just not thinking clearly. There's always next year.

I'm losing some sleep on that one too...I was definatelly in the fog

Running 10 psi .....

eek... that sounds way to low. me thinks 18- 20 was the call


Well, with a 113mph top speed and a 4th place finish it must not have been that bad! :smokin:

Running 10 psi .....

Too much or too little?


Im betting too little.

Tire pressures ranged bigtime between all of the competitors, and it also matters what kind of tire you run.

What i run shocked people last year, but this year they thought it was normal.

Ian

What i run shocked people last year, but this year they thought it was normal.

Ian

What did you run?

I started with 12 figuring it would increase as soon as we started running. I was on regular Interco IROKs, not stickies, and really noticed traction issues in the rocks.

Dropping off the waterfall into wrecking ball without slowing down/stopping or atleast look around to the people there telling us to turn left. Hard right is where the tires were and over we went. Ended our day, something in the alternator quit after that.

I ran 17 to 18 last year and i stepped it up to 20 to 21 with Krawlers. I pre ran some trails in november at 26 and they worked fine but were a little unforgiving and fell of line a bit more in the rocks. but still worked better than non stickies. Its really hard to beat a stickie in the rocks in my opinion.

I really found that the stickies work just fine in the rocks at high pressures and hit helped out huge on handling characteristics in the desert. Not to mention the most important aspect it reduced the popability.

I have only been getting flatts from sticks through the tire and really reduced my pinch flats from hiting baskeballs on the sides of the high speed stuff.

This is top sectret. Please dont tell anyone else.

Ian

Not stepping up and installing a bladder cell ended our race.:shaking:

Damn, we ran like 12 in the KRT's and felt great. we smashed into some rocks with the sidewalls and I was almost hitting Wyatt (bigwoodywag) in the helmet for cutting a tire like we did on reds all the time. We never did. I'd run that again, maybe 2 more in the fronts.
Our regret is me not seeing that the gauges were lying to us and disregarding them and keeping racing. It said between 210 and 280 and no oil pressure. I finally figured out it was a bad ground. I should have calmed down, thought that the 5.3 had no lifter rattle so it has oil (new motor, new pump, was flawless until then) and that it didn't smell hot and wasn't bypassing the cap so the temp was lying, especially with our newly windowed thermostat. It cost us 1:45 and a finish. were still running great when we timed out.

Did anyone run inner liners? I saw them at the BFG trailer but didn't notice any on vehicles. I think they would have been the ticket to running low pressures and not blowing out tires.

Did anyone run inner liners? I saw them at the BFG trailer but didn't notice any on vehicles. I think they would have been the ticket to running low pressures and not blowing out tires.

Kinda hard to notice anyone running them........... :laughing: I think Victor said that Tracy Jordan was going to. Jason Scherer wanted to but his wheels wouldnt fit them.

I ran 17 to 18 psi with Krawlers. Its really hard to beat a stickie in the rocks in my opinion.

I really found that the stickies work just fine in the rocks at high pressures and hit helped out huge on handling characteristics in the desert. Not to mention the most important aspect it reduced the popability.



X2 for us. we ran 18psi up front, 15psi out back. No flats or cuts.

Not too hard to notice when they are stopped...looking for the 2nd schrader valve near the beadlock...and knowing which wheels have the capability of running them in the first place:flipoff2:

Nicole and Usnick were broken at the top when we got there, we went of the side of the canyon back where people are sitting on the right, Jody and Shannon showed up about then, and Shannon drove over Usnick somehow, and Jody turtled and went of the canyon wall as well.

We heard Greg Adler barrelrolled here with Nicole spotting him, true?

True that he barrelrolled

Too much or too little?

eek... that sounds way to low. me thinks 18- 20 was the call

Way to low we run 30 psi in the class 1 car 20 in the buggy when going fast it was my mistake ....

not bringing beer for when we fried our battery and sat there for an hour..:(

I'm losing some sleep on that one too...I was definatelly in the fog

Wasn't throwing you under the bus man.......we both weren't on the top of our game right there. We sure got better once we hit the Mailbox though:)

not bringing beer for when we fried our battery and sat there for an hour..:(

Are you admitting you had no "survival kit" (Beer and a bag of Doritos) ??? :laughing: :flipoff2:

not having a gps

not having working radios

and not teaching people how to drive the waterfall on aftershock. :shaking:
really? really? the easiest trail there and of all places to have a traffic jam. i mean really? me, john james and mustard dog went right up it. we didnt even back up from the bottom to the top. what is so freaking hard about that obstacle?

i heard nick cambell and matt messer drove the left waterfall line. i would love to see video of that

I was at aftershock and could not beleave how fast it got wadded up, one car was on it's side after the obsticle, while they tried to upright themselves a second car broke an axle, I saw a lot of unnessesary carnage and flops due to throttle before brains in the rocks, I know everyone does not have rock trails like this to practice on but silly mistakes in the rocks killed some good contenders

bob

www.extremewheelers4christ.org

Did anyone run inner liners? I saw them at the BFG trailer but didn't notice any on vehicles. I think they would have been the ticket to running low pressures and not blowing out tires.

Sort of. ;)

265/70/17 steel belted radial liners inside my 42's.

Should've run the primary tires down lower, though.

I was at aftershock and could not beleave how fast it got wadded up,...I saw a lot of unnessesary carnage and flops due to throttle before brains in the rocks...I knew it would happen and that is why I was there. It was crazy for a few reasons.
1) It was the first trail after the desert section. People were used to going fast and not in the crawler mindset yet.
2) Being the first trail people weren't spaced out yet other than the very fast or the very slow.
3) Everyone with a line of people behind them felt they owed it to the people behind them to get through fast.



Scott: what pressure did you run in the tire and the "inner liner"?
I heard of some people running 8psi...I don't know how they didn't pinch tires and bend wheels running that low.

Scott: what pressure did you run in the tire and the "inner liner"?
I heard of some people running 8psi...I don't know how they didn't pinch tires and bend wheels running that low.

35psi in the liner tires, and started at 14 in the big tires, but let the primaries down to "umm... 'bout that" somewhere along the way when the desert sand chop was just too brutal.

Are you admitting you had no "survival kit" (Beer and a bag of Doritos) ??? :laughing: :flipoff2:

yes.. i admit it... but keep it on the downlow...:D

So whats your biggest mistake pre-race? Possibly while riding a quad :D

Not properly securing the battery, and springing for decent wheels. :mad3::mad3::mad3:

We didn't make really any big driving errors. Passed a lot of people. It's a shame.

not having a gps

not having working radios

and not teaching people how to drive the waterfall on aftershock. :shaking:

Where is there a waterfall on aftershock?

It took us a little while to figure out what to do when we found the water pump gasket leaking at the plaque on sledge. The solution could have happened a lot quicker if we had just thought faster. Turns out we dumped in some stop leak, depressureized the system by pulling our schrader valve on the rear cooler and put all our available fluids in the rad. Turns out it stayed cool enough on less than 1/2 a rad worth of water/whiz.
All of that happened while the motor was cooling off so there was some advantage to us taking a few minutes to work it out.

The big one was not trusting the thing to make it the 7 or 8 miles from the BFG pit area to the finish. We pulled up to the pit for more water which didn't take long but I'm sure all together it added 15 min. or so. If we'd just kept on coasting to the finish we might have picked up some spots. On hind sight (ass-vision) it would have made it, no problem. But we played it safe, brought in a nice finish and have minor regrets.

Wish I would of pulled out the winch when I got stuck to the blue w/ flames jv rig. I broke a locker tryin to get loose. Sorry guys for bangin on your rig.

ding ding ding, we have a winner! He said he was practically begging you to winch!


There were 3 of us begging to pull line. Pistol, myself and another cat were all leaned around the plaque rock yelling that there wasn't no shame in pulling line.

Wish I would of pulled out the winch when I got stuck to the blue w/ flames jv rig. I broke a locker tryin to get loose. Sorry guys for bangin on your rig.


When was this? We were all together at one point and the JV rig was diffed out. The guys in the Mastercraft buggy took the harder v-notch line to the left. We followed them, and thought you were going to follow us. Or maybe you decided to wait for the right line to clear....

My biggest mistake.. No pushing hard enough. I was to conservative in saving the car. That and I took a bad line on Jack and ended up stuck like a turtle blocking the trail. I keep going over everything in my mind, all the mistakes, things I would have done differntly as if I could change the outcome of a race I have already raced. I achieved my goal, to finish but honestly believe I could have finished in a better position had I pushed harder..

When was this? We were all together at one point and the JV rig was diffed out. The guys in the Mastercraft buggy took the harder v-notch line to the left. We followed them, and thought you were going to follow us. Or maybe you decided to wait for the right line to clear....

We had gotten around RJ a bit earlier and followed that line. The first guy has huge stone to even try it. I thought RJ was behind us too.

Wayne

biggest mistake? Probably running a chrome fan...

Wish I would of pulled out the winch when I got stuck to the blue w/ flames jv rig. I broke a locker tryin to get loose. Sorry guys for bangin on your rig.
No problem.:) We should have gone with a full hydro steering set up and we wouldn't have plugged the trail. Broken cast steel pitman arms don't weld too well.:(

We had gotten around RJ a bit earlier and followed that line. The first guy has huge stone to even try it. I thought RJ was behind us too.

Wayne

:laughing: That's the same feeling we had. I could sense the guys around me were looking at the left line and after seeing someone else do it, our confidence went up and we followed. Probably would have played it safe and helped the stuck rig if nobody else was around.

My biggest mistake was running the dog crap AlloyUSA stubs. Once we busted the right front at the plaque on Sledge, I had to beat the rig hard to make it through in 3 wheel. I think this is what lead to a rear flat tire. These 2 events cost us about 5 places. That's racing though. At least we are in again for next year.:grinpimp:

My biggest mistake was running the dog crap AlloyUSA stubs. Once we busted the right front at the plaque on Sledge, I had to beat the rig hard to make it through in 3 wheel. I think this is what lead to a rear flat tire. These 2 events cost us about 5 places. That's racing though. At least we are in again for next year.:grinpimp:


I drove it in two wheel drive from the plaque on. Only driving tire in the front was flat, left rear was flat as well. Rear diff hadn't had oil in 55+ miles. Yet we finished 3rd. I guess I am glad I knew better than to run Alloy USA stubs in front. I should have let you in on the secret. But I didn't, and thats my fault, except you alredy knew they were junk. But you ran them anyway.:laughing::laughing:

Heres to racing in the big leagues, and blowing it cause your cheap!!:flipoff2::laughing:
BTW I had alloy USA inners, and I broke one in the same spot you did! Black Laughing!

Better luck next time ace.;)

Easy.

Thanks for confirming you are still a douche bag.:shaking:

Did you see the Black text? Highlight what I typed. Thats what made it funny, that we broke the same shit in the same spot.

We both knew better!:laughing::laughing:

Rick.

Did you see the Black text? Highlight what I typed. Thats what made it funny, that we broke the same shit in the same spot.

We both knew better!:laughing::laughing:

Rick.

How did the inner break? I just cheaped out (again) and replaced my AUSA outers with Spidertrax, but I kept the inners. :shaking: One $1000 bill at a time, you know?

You have a strange way of agreeing with people.

You have a strange way of agreeing with people.

Thanx!:flipoff2:

How did the inner break? I just cheaped out (again) and replaced my AUSA outers with Spidertrax, but I kept the inners. :shaking: One $1000 bill at a time, you know?


It broke clean just outside the raised seal surface, or did you mean "how did it break"? I ran out of talent on the sledge waterfall, and wedged the front.:laughing:

Yes I cheaped out too, but it will be remedied soon, so I can play with the big boys!:grinpimp:

Gotta pay to play.:homer:

Easy.