1. Determine starting positions from a timed qualifier. (not to qualify who gets in, just starting order of who is already in)

2. Zero in on timing stats from the start line for more accuracy because it's so fun to see afterwards! (it might be that way now)

3. Written rules. (already covered I think)

4. Get the course map the weekend before the race so we have more time to spend with media just prior to the race. (I didn't get to smack talk...too busy!) Make media/vendor time-slot mandatory.

5. Participant prizes for drivers AND co-drivers.

6. Leave check points open a little longer.



That's all I have for the moment. Anybody else? Don't BS this thread up with whining...CONSTRUCTIVE IDEAS ONLY! This is not a bash fest on Dave and Jeff.

No motorhomes crossing the course during the race:grinpimp:

I suggest someone else hold it so I can race and bitch afterwards:flipoff2:

Outlaw gps.

I suggest someone else hold it so I can race and bitch afterwards:flipoff2:

You would think that at least one of the people you have told to start a race of their own would listen :flipoff2:

Outlaw gps.

Never going to happen. Ever. In fact you will see zero course markings long before you see no GPS's.

Marking and unmarking the course was the single biggest 'suck' of the event... and Jeff and his team did the vast majority of the heavy lifting.

outlaw gps.

word!

You would think that at least one of the people you have told to start a race of their own would listen :flipoff2:

I'm hoping... and building... for that day:flipoff2:

Never going to happen. Ever. In fact you will see zero course markings long before you see no GPS's.

Marking and unmarking the course was the single biggest 'suck' of the event... and Jeff and his team did the vast majority of the heavy lifting.
Come on sal fish has been making a 1000 miles for almost forty years now, you guys can do 82 miles in your sleep.

Come on sal fish has been making a 1000 miles for almost forty years now, you guys can do 82 miles in your sleep.


Good point. So, by that logic, I can charge the same $4500 entry fee and pay back $37.28 so I can afford the same staff to get it done:flipoff2:

Good point. So, by that logic, I can charge the same $4500 entry fee and pay back $37.28 so I can afford the same staff to get it done:flipoff2:

Sweet! We're getting paid next year? :homer:

1. At each check point the driver must stop, get out of the vehicle and write a 150 word letter for land-use issues before continuing.

2. Open host bar.

(Hey, a guy can dream :homer:)

From my point of view and limited experience...

I thought everything was awesome. I don't think there reallly needs to be any changes other than getting the rules in a handbook.

Good point. So, by that logic, I can charge the same $4500 entry fee and pay back $37.28 so I can afford the same staff to get it done:flipoff2:
I think you can charge what ever you want, they will come.

X2 on the checkpoints staying open longer.

Not sure if it's just post race anger, but that really bummed me out when we had a major setback, chose to fight through it, knowing that we were running short on time, and came to checkpoint 3 only to find out it had been closed for 20 minutes.

That being said, I understand the closing time theory, being that if you haven't made it there yet, you probably aren't going to cross the finish line in time.

Just a little extra time would be cool.

I think you can charge what ever you want, they will come.



Shhhhhhhhhhhhh... Jeff will hear you:flipoff2:

X2 on the checkpoints staying open longer.

Not sure if it's just post race anger, but that really bummed me out when we had a major setback, chose to fight through it, knowing that we were running short on time, and came to checkpoint 3 only to find out it had been closed for 20 minutes.

That being said, I understand the closing time theory, being that if you haven't made it there yet, you probably aren't going to cross the finish line in time.

Just a little extra time would be cool.

I agree. This is definitely on the table.

One idea I had. It looks like it was attempted...but I never saw anyone told to move...so not really.

Have "racers only" lined up and down the start/finish line for pits instead of first come/first stab at a spot. I understand some racers have toyhaulers or whatever...and that's fine. Allow each race team a big area, big meaning able to park rv and truck there lined up and down the start/finish line.

Or...if some shops or teams want a huge spot, have it set aside for them and their 3 or 4 racers. I know there was room. True, the rv's were closer on one side than the other...but it would still be nice if all the racers were up and down two rows instead of a clusterbomb of rv's jackknifed on top of each other.

We parked our rig and attempted to pit with Jimmy's 4x4 rigs. When we got our rv, there wasn't room, so we moved about 200 feet away. The next night 3 rv's crammed in blocking in where we were calling a pit. :laughing: So...a spot that we claimed was no longer a spot. It was 3 rv's of non-racers. I was like, here we are being nice and letting room for "cars" to drive in and out of there and 3 rv's crowd in there. LOL. Then, a couple dudes pulled up in their trail Jeeps and blocked it in even more the next day. It was none of their fault and not saying it was. Simply stating it would be nicer for fans and racers to have the separate areas.

If the race was tommorrow, with the same format and the same rules, I would be there. LETS RACE!!!!!!!

Short range, FM broadcast of race coverage. either piped in race radio, Pirate4x4 coverage, or hammerkings own guy doing play by play. Anything for fans can just tune in to listen to. The only thing missing as a fan this year was knowing what was happening as a whole. Being able to tune in on a walkman or in your car would rule.

of course i have no idea how feasable or not that is, just a wish :)

I loved the way starting posisitions were picked, especially the way the LCQ guys were randomly mixed in.

Something for the co-drivers would be cool if it can be pulled off.

Short range, FM broadcast of race coverage. either piped in race radio, Pirate4x4 coverage, or hammerkings own guy doing play by play. Anything for fans can just tune in to listen to. The only thing missing as a fan this year was knowing what was happening as a whole. Being able to tune in on a walkman or in your car would rule.

of course i have no idea how feasable or not that is, just a wish :)


We looked into that this year. It is legally impossible to broadcast more than about a 1/4 mile.

We even called one of the local radio stations about simulcasting our feed. No go.

I loved it and have no complaints. :D

Reserved camping for just the race teams would be cool like droop said. Not telling people that they have to camp in and this and that spot, but having a closed off area just for racers and pit crews would be cool. It is a hectic and cahotic environment out there, that makes it very hard to organize IMO.

4. Get the course map the weekend before the race so we have more time to spend with media just prior to the race. (I didn't get to smack talk...too busy!) Make media/vendor time-slot mandatory.

6. Leave check points open a little longer.


-With it being a media event, I think we took every opportunity to get in front of vendors, and the media, but it left a lot lacking in time to wheel, or wrench.

-Checkpoints open longer......that bit us at Check#4, nothing like timing out at 70mph in a running driving car in the middle of the afternoon.
When we left BFG pits we were told we were 40 minutes behind the closest pack, when we got to Check #4 it had just closed and they told us that pack had came through 10 minutes prior. So we were making up time. Sucks when you have issues EARLY on.
Would it still have gotten dark on us???? Maybe, but hell we should have been allowed to continue racing, not told the race is over and to head back to the Main pits. Race until dark, stop racing at dark. Take everyone's GPS or Rally track where they were sitting at 6:33pm (dusk+:30) and thats it if they are still out on course.

-A minimum on horns. An aerosol airhorn ziptied to the cage is insufficient. We used our Siren a ton to get spectators off the course in front of us. Maybe had we not been so far back so early on that wouldnt have been a problem, but that siren saved lives.

Only problem I ran into was pit layout. RV's and spectators had blocked our access to main pits when we came in from CP1. Drove all the way around camp and had to dart through people's camp sites to get to our pits. At BFG pit was also hard to find our team as the course wound through, I found myself driving through other people's pits accidentally.

Last year's pit in the main wash seemed ideal. Nascar style all in a row off the side of the course.

You guys did a great job Dave. The course was well marked and well though out. I never had so much fun beating myself up, and I wish I could do it again tomorrow!:D


We should do the volunteer night run like we had planned on last year:smokin:

We should do the volunteer night run like we had planned on last year:smokin:


If my car doesn't sell... Jambo baby... it's on.

The pits on Means were a double edged sword.
Being able to camp right there was cool.
Having to find a new way into my own camp every time I went anywhere, because everybody and their brother decided to park me in, sucked.
There's really nothing Hammerking can do about that, it's just people. Shy of hauling in truckloads of jersey barriers, forklifts, and whatever, people will do whatever and go wherever they feel like.
I think the pits on Means worked out as well as could have been, at least without trying to have "reserved" spots. Even "reserving" pit space didn't work very well for us (we taped off our pit) because people just started parking three deep into the access "road" instead, or driving over our caution tape and dragging it off through the desert anyway.

The checkpoint closure times were too short; we were making good time (we'd had a couple issues, but we were back to speed, maybe not Tom Wayes fast, but on track for at least a finish) when we were DQ'd by five minutes on a checkpoint. I'd personally prefer to not have any checkpoints close, just have the race close at dark:15, and anybody still on course at that point gets a DNF as of the last checkpoint cleared or their actual position (depending on tracking capabilities). Continuing that line of thought, at dark:15, "chase" is turned loose, and any cars not already back, will be, within an hour or two. I'd bet on half or more of the finishers' chase crews heading happily into the dark desert to go retrieve their DNF friends even if said friends don't have their own chase crews.

Once you have decided on a rule book....
Officials at the pits and check points.
There were many questions asked of us because we had short wave communication to Means....

They had a full pit-plan...people did not follow it.

Short range, FM broadcast of race coverage. either piped in race radio, Pirate4x4 coverage, or hammerkings own guy doing play by play. Anything for fans can just tune in to listen to. The only thing missing as a fan this year was knowing what was happening as a whole. Being able to tune in on a walkman or in your car would rule.

of course i have no idea how feasable or not that is, just a wish :)

I think that's a good idea. While I knew what I saw, heard over the volunteers radios....everything else was a big ?????? and I ahd to wait to get home and read about it on pirate. A short range broadcast would be badass!

They had a full pit-plan...people did not follow it.

I thought that got tossed out several weeks before the event. Teams didnt like them, and the spaces were not large enough. :confused:

We parked by the peeps we knew. Getting there before Wednesday also helps. :flipoff2:

I have a couple of requests..

1.. Lets make the pits be two big rows of KOH starters along the starting gate. That lake bed is huge 50 something on one side and 45 on the other.. However many they have for next year.. Assigned spots that we have a sheet that tells where they are all marked so all of us can find each other and not waste time trying to find our friends and sponsors. Then have the LCQ guys on another row behind them.


2.. Have all of the vendors in rows better then they were. Too many other rigs and motorhomes couldn't tell who was who..

3.. Have the tech rules be enforced on ALL of the racers. We spent our testing time installing fuel check valves.. You know how hard it is to find these parts out there? We were not reading the rules on the internet before the race we were building a car.. Have all of the rules on paper sent to the racers.

4. GREEN FLAG START.. Everybody line up across the lake bed and go for it..LOL.. That will never happen.. Be cool though.. Is there anyway we can figure out how to not have the guys in the back not get stacked up behind broken rigs in canyons then when guys like Shannon go over a tire they get hassled for it?

Please do something about those 9 guys who finished in front of me. I gave it all I had and still don't knwo what to do about them/


Really only a bit longer @ the checks would be my main concern.

Keep the no chase it gives the little guy a chance.

Don't give the course out any earlier. It would not be fair to the out of towners coming in late.

wayne

i like everything the way it was. i thought it was the most organized event i have ever been to.


but i would like the course map to be released the friday before. i had no time to properly pre run the course and do media. that is all:)

(i say this because i got lost on the part i didnt prerun, lol.)

They had a full pit-plan...people did not follow it.

Its got tossed out little fella..................:D

More times at the checkpoints of race till dark..................set a 6PM deadline or sumthin.

Later time cut-off instead of 5PM so it gets dark. Put those bling-ass lightbars to good use that a lot of people had.

I know it is hard because lack of pure numbers of your volunteers, but I think we needed more check points. Mostly, when the race started and we went all the way out to no mans land.....I think there should have been a checkpoint all the way at the tip... I guess the rally track should have taken care of anyone cutting the corner, but we all know how well that worked:laughing:

Other than that...we had a blast, and will sure as hell be back next year!!!!:beer:

Later time cut-off instead of 5PM so it gets dark. Put those bling-ass lightbars to good use that a lot of people had.

The reason the race must end at dusk is that after that EVERY road crossing (think of all the intersecting trails the course ran through, each one is a road crossing) would have to be manned and lit.

From day one it was known that this was a day event only, no idea why so many people spent big dollars on lights they wouldn't use. Well maybe they thought it would make thier car look like a bad ass desert racer.

no idea why so many people spent big dollars on lights they wouldn't use. Well maybe they thought it would make thier car look like a bad ass desert racer.

:laughing:

While prerunning on Wednesday and Thursday nights, because those were some of the only times we ended up able to do so, and while being followed around by guys with some of those really sweet really bright lights, as I drove around chasing my own shadow, I realized how bad my headlights suck. I realized then why guys have big bling lightbars on purpose-built cars built for a daytime-only race.

It's all about the bling.

:flipoff2:

Not sure if it's just post race anger, but that really bummed me out when we had a major setback, chose to fight through it, knowing that we were running short on time, and came to checkpoint 3 only to find out it had been closed for 20 minutes.


Air-horns for all checkpoints.

One quick pop of the horn for a 5 mintue warning.

One good long blast for CP closing...?

Air-horns for all checkpoints.

One quick pop of the horn for a 5 mintue warning.

One good long blast for CP closing...?

not even useful

At the time check#4 closed I was 5 miles away going 70mph at it. Got to is 4 minutes late.

I would like to suggest that Roxy have her very own pimpin trailer/hospitality suite to register people and update/organize lists in. :D Or just a printer to use would be lovely :laughing: :roxy:

I would like to suggest that Roxy have her very own pimpin trailer/hospitality suite to register people and update/organize lists in. :D Or just a printer to use would be lovely :laughing: :roxy:

I would like to request that Varga have a bed under the check in table.:grinpimp: That dirt can't be easy on an old girls bones.

When you go to set the course next year, can we get a pit road that does NOT cross the racecourse? We tried to run out to the remote pit in a sidebyside and had trouble staying off the course since it wasn't marked well. Every road we turned on had course markers so we would have to dive off and try to find another road. It was super confusing.

I know it all depends on the course you set and availability, but if they have to cross, can we get some SUPER clear markers?

for every racer that is asking for the checkpoints to be open till dusk....

you'd better be also working like a $3 hooker to get your sponsor to kick down some goods for the volunteer raffle. we had some great sponsor this year for our raffle (winchline.com, viking products, trailgear, currie ent., Cody Wagner and IPE, UDS, readywelder, Raceline Wheels, VanCo, Polyperformace, Northridge 4x4, CTM, Superior axle, Staun, bushwhacker, TDS (the club) and J.E. Reel) also, make a few moments to stop by the tent/trailer/chunk of dirt to help give away said tokens of appreciation to the volunteers. we had team 555tx there for most of the raffle this year, he's a good public speaker by the way LOL

if every checkpoint closed at dusk, by that theory, we can't begin to do any final course clean up and recovery efforts till dark.

there were areas at dark we were clearing as it was and it sucked.

I and the rest of the volunteers pride on the fact that by the end of the day, we know were everyone is and they are either on their way back or we've got their crew coming to pick them up. now how hard would it be to find a dead rig with no lights out in the middle of the desert??

They had a full pit-plan...people did not follow it.

They had a pit plan. They tossed it out.

That said, my assumption is that if they hadn't stated "we're not going to do it", it would have worked--at least 75% effectively.

Next year, draw up a pit plan (or hell, just reprint the 2009 plan!), and say, "we don't have time to monitor, set up, or mark these areas, it's on the honor system". Most teams will get there before Wednesday, and it will be pretty well laid out and maintained through the week. Not saying it will be perfect, but saying, "it ain't gonna happen" pretty much guaranteed it wouldn't happen. :p

Since so much has been said about how WE Hammerking can improve, I first want to respectfully request a few improvemnets on the part of our teams. Alls fair and turn abouts fair game right? HE HE :flipoff2:

1st each team should invest the time in attending a top rated desert race sanctioned by Best in the desert or SCORE. I prefer BITD. They should attend not only registration and contingency/tech but should attempt to save a large enough pit to satisfy their needs in the front row of the main pit area. In addition they should also attempt to set up remote pits at each of the approved pit area's, and attend the drivers meeting. Please also make sure you are lined up at the requested time 3 hours before the start of the race, and make sure you sit in your race car the entire time.
Please make sure you try and find any resemblance of a media reporter during your time at the race, and don't forget to go on the sanctioned pre run the month before the event in your street legal speed controled vehicle. ( just make sure you don't pass the lead vehicle they get pissed off)
You'll find KOH was pretty damn good under the comparo to a big BITD race.





Hah ahahaha:D


This morning I am actually writing my personal needs improvement list for disimination by Dave, and he is doing the same for me. Just thought I would drop a quick heads up concerning the pits as I spent a lot of effort on it, only to find it would not work.

It took me 2 full days with 4 bags of chalk just to lay out the start finish area, and the vendor row. a large number of vendors did not show up on time or at all after assuring me they would be on site. The best thing that can be done about pit parking is to educate teams on sharing the space we have. It is still a big problem at BITD and I see no way to fix it short of throwing in a bigger in field type of Pits. It will take an army of volunteers to make sure only race teams are on the front row, and I think that the teams need to help make this an option for 2010.

Course marking and clean up really kicked my ass. Some one made the comment that Sal fish can do it. BFGoodrich does it with him, and they do not even come close to marking it like we did. To be honest I can not recall seeing anything more then arrows, and wrong way signs every so often. They also mark it a month before the race. That is not an option for us as there was a race in the same area the sunday before us, and the sunday after us. Markers have to go up starting Monday, and be down on Sat. That makes it really tough, as it took 3 full days to mark it out.


Thanks for taking the time to tell us what you guys want to see for 2010. I guess I need to figure out how to make this profitable enough to be a full time job. Thanks for the idea Mike Hendrix. Dave was right you should have never let me see that comment.:flipoff2:



All joking aside.
1.) drivers please attend the meetings
2.) get your car to line up on time. Thanks Tom Wayes for staging on time.
3.) set up your pit on the front row, set up your party on the second row.
4.) get your sponsors involved in the event.
5.) educate your team
6.) volunteer to clean the course, like a number of teams did this year, you guys kicked ass.
7.) If you run over a course marker on the pre run stop and put it back up.
8.) Be a good example, and attempt to educate the guys around you about our rules regarding fluid spills.
9.) keep your pit areas clean. The BLM was walking the pits during the race. Bring your trash in at night. The wind comes up and spreads it all over the lake bed.
10.) Understand that there are 10,000 people all trying to ask Jeff or Dave a question at any given moment. If we are headed somewhere quickly it likley means we are working on a crisis, and can not answer your question. It does not mean we are rude, pissed off or don't like you. It just means we are working on something currently, and will require us to get back to you.


Next year I hope to have an army of hot young personal assitants to help me meet your needs. Since we are dreaming why not dream big.:laughing:

for every racer that is asking for the checkpoints to be open till dusk....

you'd better be also working like a $3 hooker to get your sponsor to kick down some goods for the volunteer raffle. we had some great sponsor this year for our raffle (winchline.com, viking products, trailgear, currie ent., Cody Wagner and IPE, UDS, readywelder, Raceline Wheels, VanCo, Polyperformace, Northridge 4x4, CTM, Superior axle, Staun, bushwhacker, TDS (the club) and J.E. Reel) also, make a few moments to stop by the tent/trailer/chunk of dirt to help give away said tokens of appreciation to the volunteers. we had team 555tx there for most of the raffle this year, he's a good public speaker by the way LOL

if every checkpoint closed at dusk, by that theory, we can't begin to do any final course clean up and recovery efforts till dark.

there were areas at dark we were clearing as it was and it sucked.

I and the rest of the volunteers pride on the fact that by the end of the day, we know were everyone is and they are either on their way back or we've got their crew coming to pick them up. now how hard would it be to find a dead rig with no lights out in the middle of the desert??

Thanks Shaun, I was trying to find a nice way to point out what you just did and you did it so much better.

Also, many of the volunteers would like to see some of the race festivities after the race back on the lakebed. If you keep the checks open til dusk, you are guaranteeing that any volunteer working the outer perimeter will miss a bunch of that.

It's also, as you pointed out, not going to be fun digging some of the broken down cars off the trails after dark.

Our crew for example, didn't find out who won the race until the next day.

However, if you do keep them open longer, we'll still do our best to get done what needs to get done.

This morning I am actually writing my personal needs improvement list for disimination by Dave, and he is doing the same for me.

No he's not, he's on his way to Disneyland:laughing::laughing::flipoff2:

No he's not, he's on his way to Disneyland:laughing::laughing::flipoff2:

Dave Cole You just pulled of the off-road race of the year what are you going to do now?


:flipoff2:


He actually wrote his yesterday.

Jeff, you guys did a helluva job marking the course. I have a feeling next year we won't be so lucky.

The pit stuff and all these other little things are just that, little things. Overall it was absolutely great. My only real big thing request is the we get invited back to race again next year:D

And I hope that for all your efforts you and Dave actually got to make some money this year.

Next year I hope to have an army of hot young personal assitants to help me meet your needs. Since we are dreaming why not dream big.:laughing:

Did you just call me old and ugly? :flipoff2: :roxy:

Did you just call me old and ugly? :flipoff2: :roxy:

Not exactly, but when I bumped you out of the way to stop your foot from getting run over in the tech line, you weren't exactly the tallest person I've ever met.

Not exactly, but when I bumped you out of the way to stop your foot from getting run over in the tech line, you weren't exactly the tallest person I've ever met.

But my big mouth makes me much taller :D :roxy:

for every racer that is asking for the checkpoints to be open till dusk....

you'd better be also working like a $3 hooker to get your sponsor to kick down some goods for the volunteer raffle. we had some great sponsor this year for our raffle (winchline.com, viking products, trailgear, currie ent., Cody Wagner and IPE, UDS, readywelder, Raceline Wheels, VanCo, Polyperformace, Northridge 4x4, CTM, Superior axle, Staun, bushwhacker, TDS (the club) and J.E. Reel) also, make a few moments to stop by the tent/trailer/chunk of dirt to help give away said tokens of appreciation to the volunteers. we had team 555tx there for most of the raffle this year, he's a good public speaker by the way LOL


I'll take that last part as a compliment, even considering how sick I was with no voice! :D
Got to get this in there, my sponsor Syntek Global tossed in several fuel treatments into the Raffle as well as sprung a good portion to Hammerking for a larger main tent. :smokin: The original plan had been for two smaller tents but Dave found out from the tent dude we could get ONE larger one. Raceline stepped up, and Syntek was very happy to have been able to supplement on their coat tails to get all of us in one larger tent. Thanks Dave and Jeff for providing them that opportunity.



My comments in RED


All joking aside.

1.) drivers please attend the meetings
For a rookie team that jumped at the opportunities this past year and making this our 1st and hopefully not last trip out west we took every opportunity provided. DJ Safety, PCI, Syntek, Dustin Webster (Pistol Pete) all stepped up, we made it to everything offered. We and I were very surprised at the overall lack of participation by all the teams there. My father and I run a Bonneville car and have been looking for some alternatives to arrest flameouts. DJ Safety is now on my list for the 2009 car we are building. Thank you guys for setting that up.

2.) get your car to line up on time. Thanks Tom Wayes for staging on time.
wow race morning was a macrocluster of a bunch of micro "I don't know WTF, I'm supposed to do??? My team, we had our shit together all week. Race morning, a whole bunch of chickens running around with their heads cut off. I think thats just the way its going to go pre-race. I finally said fuck it, I have a car to drive, its staged, and I'm getting in it. If my co-driver wants to get in, he better do so before we get flagged. Jeff y'all did an impecable job for two leaving every :30. :smokin:

3.) set up your pit on the front row, set up your party on the second row.
We did this, but it was luck that Brian Shirley, JT Taylor and the first wave of my team saved us a spot on the start finish lane.
We sent our support toyhauler up one run behind us so they were close. I think Wednesday morning they awoke to some random having totally blocked them in in their sleep on 2 sides. We tried to work with the guys but they basically said "Fuck off" thats where they're camping in the middle of everything. I think there should be a clear line of demarcation on the lakebed. Race teams/LCQ and everyone else. I dont think segregation because someones better is the reason, its for accessibility, and availability.Plus is should help if the MainPit become Pit #1 or whatever again. I drove over a campfire at 25mph siren blazing trying to manuever around all the RV's that had blocked the pit area off from Boone RD. :shaking:

4.) get your sponsors involved in the event.
I brought my sponsors, they loved every second of it. I took them for joy rides to show them what they were putting money into, they preran some as well. (I had planned this, but found out that this is also how Pistol Pete courts his sponsors as well) They drank beer, they lived the event. I hope Hammerking appreciated Syntek's involvement. By Saturday morning they made it very clear they want to ramp up in my race efforts, and they made it clear to Hammerking that they want to be more involved going forward. Thats win win for everyone involved with KOH.

5.) educate your team
Easier said than done, but if you are lucky and have self starters as friends then you can rely on them to get things accomplished while you tend to other matters. Triple Nickel Racing is just that a handful of self starters, but even so race morning still found all all looking like monkeys fucking footballs.

6.) volunteer to clean the course, like a number of teams did this year, you guys kicked ass.
D&J I'm am sorry we did not stay and help. Give us a raincheck we'll make it up next year. We had discussed it early in the week, and when we all got up Saturday we threw everything out the window and hauled 30 hours east. It wasnt until AZ when I realized we'd skipped out on what we had planned aside from rec wheeling.

7.) If you run over a course marker on the pre run stop and put it back up.
8.) Be a good example, and attempt to educate the guys around you about our rules regarding fluid spills.
We staked down tarps for our main pits, same as you do at Bonneville, it makes it so much easier to work on your junk on a tarp then on dirt. Catching fluids is just a benefit of it. Also I learned from Woodlee how to grocerybag diaper a 14bolt. Mine is still wearing hers.....

9.) keep your pit areas clean. The BLM was walking the pits during the race. Bring your trash in at night. The wind comes up and spreads it all over the lake bed.
THIS WAS OUR BIGGEST PROBLEM :mad3:
We had three trashbags open around our pit all the time, and there was constantly beercans, and shit just all over. I take responsibility for bringing the dirtiest SOB on the planet out there so it was fulltime cleaning up behind him. We got lucky no wind until Thursday, had it been that way all week the west of the lake would have looked like a beach after a hurricane.


10.) Understand that there are 10,000 people all trying to ask Jeff or Dave a question at any given moment. If we are headed somewhere quickly it likley means we are working on a crisis, and can not answer your question. It does not mean we are rude, pissed off or don't like you. It just means we are working on something currently, and will require us to get back to you.
You're both dicks and Tim Piele is still a douchbag.

Jeff and Dave if you had another race next week you would have a bigger turn out than KOH 2009.I have no complaints at all.The only thing I wish you could make clear this year is if there are 10 or 20 spots for 2010 given to the top 10 or 20 and someone allready has a spot will it roll over to the 21st spot.If this will work in all the qualifying events then maybe someone can get a spot KOH spot and not have to beat the car up before the big show.Allready looking forward to 2010 KOH,bigger and better than ever.Pops

Mandate the number size on the cars so it's easier for checkpoint guys to see.

Start the race earlier in the day, we could have easily been on the course at 7:30 and probably earlier. Maybe even at daybreak. This just gives time for everybody to run longer and not time out. Attrition may have been in the 40-50% range with another hour of race time.

Figure out the rally trackers better. I know that's not a Jeff and Dave job 100% but it still has to happen.

Mandate the number size on the cars so it's easier for checkpoint guys to see.



If they would put a small number plaque at the bottom of the windshield opening in the center facing forward, that would be perfect every time for every check point. Black letters on a white background and about 5" tall.

That way, we'd have the number before they stopped rolling and just have to mark time before sending them on the way.

Wouldn't a standard 10 or 15 second stop at each CP for everyone keep things even? The driver can tell you his/her number in that amount of time.

If the driver is too dumb to put big easy to read numbers on the car, then they deserve to be held up at the checks longer.

And I don't think they should change the timing so more people have a chance to finish. It's supposed to be HARD! Not everyone driving like the tortoise is gonna finish.

Here's my run down of KOH09, for those of you who don't already know I brought the entire PA system from Houston TX with me and set it up on the lakebed.

I know very little if anything about desert racing but I have a background in event production. It's easy to see that this event is going to continue to get larger every year, Now that I've survived 09 I have a few ideas that might be able to make things better.

* An elevated structure built from scaffolding on one side of the start/finish line for a base station would be a big help. Surveyboy spent most of the race in the back of a pickup truck relaying info, it would be very nice to have an elevated space for someone to sit and do that without being bothered by people walking up and asking questions all day.

* Some sort of broadcasting would be great but when we looked into it this year we couldn't get past the FCC's rules. I'm doing a bunch of research trying to get this figured out, I'd love to see either an AM or FM broadcast on the lake bed so everyone can listen to the race but it might not be possible to do it legally. Another option might be to do a large wireless broadband network out there covering most of the main camp area and allowing people to listen on their laptops or wireless LAN devices. Most of the major cell companies have mobile cell towers that are used for large events or emergency situations, something like that could easily cover the entire lake and allow for cell phone and data access to anyone out there.

* An outdoor mobile stage would be tits out there on the lake bed, something small like this would work great and they can easily handle the wind and weather.

http://www.generalconcertsupply.com/assets/stagelineSL100-sm.jpg

Do the enclosed tent again like this year for things like volunteer/driver meetings but plan to do all award presentations on the stage outside because you'll never get a tent large enough to cover all the spectators you'll have at the end of the race. Have the stage in the vacinity of the start/finish line similar to where the BFG truck was this year so that when they come across the finish line they pull in and park in front of the stage in a large controlled area. This allows you to move people past the start/finish line allowing for the next round of guys to actually pass the line before hitting a group of empty parked rigs and partying drivers.

* Make regular announcements, some people were out there for days without knowing that the food vendor was selling bagged ice... some people didn't even know there was a food vendor. Have someone dedicated to walk around with a wireless microphone and do announcement and plugs for the vendors. Jeff did this when he had time but I'm sure there's enough other crap going on, a dedicated announcer(s) might be a good idea.

* Have enough PA system to cover the entire start/finish line along with the pit area on both sides of the end of the course. I really didn't have a clue what I was going to do until I got there, I never planned on anything other than the PA system in the tent and the speakers we took to back door for the LCQ. The start/finish line PA system was all done at the last minute and it turned out to be used more than anything else.

* If you have a vendor like Rally Track on site have them feed data into the tent to a projector so that people can go in and watch the race live. You could also have that vendor supply the info via a website to the local wireless LAN I talked about earlier so anyone with a laptop and wireless card could pull up the site without actually needing internet access.


This event was amazing to say the least, I'm proud just to say I helped in some small way. :) Can't wait for 2010.

Sounds like D&J need a couple of delegates in a central post, "second-in-commands" if you will, that can clarify rules and relay judgement calls from D&J.

I think the biggest thing is time, and making the teams attend and participate appropriately or not at all. It would eliminate a lot of the misunderstandings, I would think.

Dave and Jeff,
the race was tits, with that being said what about moving camp or main area closer to cell phone bush????? Maybe a dumb question but it looked like a really flat area out there, plenty of room and mainly cell service!! It sure would be nice and could make it easier on the pit crews to get in touch with people looking for parts!!

Mike

Wouldn't a standard 10 or 15 second stop at each CP for everyone keep things even? The driver can tell you his/her number in that amount of time.

You've obviously never tried to talk to a driver in a full helmet and fire suit with the wind blowing and a loud engine.

We had 4 cars in our check point at one time. I'm not making the last car sit in line that long at a check point.

When they were stacked up, we averaged 2-4 seconds per stop and that would be faster if the numbers were where we could see them easier. Don't make it harder than it needs to be.

If the driver is too dumb to put big easy to read numbers on the car, then they deserve to be held up at the checks longer..



thats why i put this on my hood and no other writing:D

Dave and Jeff,
the race was tits, with that being said what about moving camp or main area closer to cell phone bush????? Maybe a dumb question but it looked like a really flat area out there, plenty of room and mainly cell service!! It sure would be nice and could make it easier on the pit crews to get in touch with people looking for parts!!

Mike

With the wind and sand that was blowing wed. and thur. night I wouldn't have wanted to be camping on the other side of the lake bed. :D I believe they moved where we were this year to try and help with blowing dust coming across the lake bed, I may be wrong.

...now how hard would it be to find a dead rig with no lights out in the middle of the desert??

I can answer that! You guys didn't find us until the next day the night we got stuck on Spooners....and I had to hike out to the main road to even have a chance to be found. And that was WITH cell phone contact.

I can answer that! You guys didn't find us until the next day the night we got stuck on Spooners....and I had to hike out to the main road to even have a chance to be found. And that was WITH cell phone contact.

Recognize this?

http://home.comcast.net/~herrick720/jon2.jpg

I LOVE that Jeep! :dustin:

Dave and Jeff,
the race was tits, with that being said what about moving camp or main area closer to cell phone bush????? Maybe a dumb question but it looked like a really flat area out there, plenty of room and mainly cell service!! It sure would be nice and could make it easier on the pit crews to get in touch with people looking for parts!!

Mike

That's where we were last year, but even though it was nice to have cell service it's more to the bottom/center of the lakebed and it was horribly muddy with a little bit of ran and piss. I'd never want to camp there again and was glad that this year was a better spot.....even if we had to drive a short distance to get cell service.

As a volunteer this year I'd like to see one guy be in charge of the volunteers. That guy would need a site and the direct ears of the planners to get it to run smoothly. We need a site to see who is where, we need to see the rules, we need to know where everything is at. We can man check points easily, but answer questions? We couldn't, all we knew (95% of us) was what our job was at that time. We need at least one very well educated volunteer at each check point that pretty much has the yet to be made rule book memorized.

As someone who gave product to the raffle it would have been nice to know when the raffle was. As a volunteer winning a goody wouldn't have been so bad either, if I knew when it was...That would have been answered with someone being in charge of all the volunteers. I assume that person would have listed times for everything on the site he is running.

It's important to make the guys basically in charge of the entire race track to be one of the fundamental processes of the race. Not something held together by radios, late changing rules and the sheer determination of the volunteers. All the guys I was with kicked ass and from what I heard all the volunteers did. However, I'd love to see a ton more organization.