Well... a very sad day for America - Congressional power structure is showing itself as morally bankrupt.

Here's the deal.

H.R.146
Title: A bill to establish a battlefield acquisition grant program for the acquisition and protection of nationally significant battlefields and associated sites of the Revolutionary War and the War of 1812, and for other purposes.

Is being voted on Monday - and it is now the same S.22 bill. S.22 is attached to the end of H.R. 146. In other words - the Senate has H.R.146 already. By the House putting S.22 onto H.R. 146 the Senate takes over and S.22 is never voted on by the House! The Senate represents the states - the House represents the People (not that many people care about American governmental ideals). So we pass laws without the People having any representative voice? EDIT: Fight is on, slight change! - Senate vote and House vote again after - but looks like House will not be able to make amendments.

Talk about irony! What a sad and terrible thing to have happen - the American governmental ideals and process are being killed by using a bill directed to honor those very things and the lives dedicated to them - I see it but can't believe it... this goes far beyond a debate on Land Use.... I must be wrong, please someone straighten me out.

EDIT 3/17/2009: Cloture passed, vote on H.R. 146 in Senate scheduled soon. See United Four Wheel Drive Associations Alert http://www.ufwda.org/news_view.php?id=146 and Blue Ribbon Coalition Alert http://www.sharetrails.org/alerts/?alert=980 Call your Representatives - zip code lookup at http://congress.org/stickers/?dir=congressorg&officials=officials&lvl=C

Thanks for posting - I don't recognize the country I grew up in anymore :mad3:

I should have posted what I read before. Frankly, I was so upset I had to delete my post 3 times because I couldn't be coherent.

http://rpc.senate.gov/public/_files/hotline0.html
(I'm not a Republican or Democrat - just a lurker on gov sites and saw it there first)

Senate Schedule
Monday, March 16, 2009
Pending:
The Senate will next convene at 2:00 p.m. Monday, March 16, after standing in adjournment at 6:58 p.m. Thursday, March 12.
At 2:00 p.m., the Senate will be in Morning Business until 3:00 p.m., with Senators permitted to speak up to 10 minutes each.
At 3:00 p.m., the Senate will resume consideration of the motion to proceed to H.R. 146, the Battlefields bill (vehicle for the Public Lands bill).
At 5:30 p.m., the Senate will VOTE on the motion to invoke cloture on the motion to proceed to H.R. 146. NOTE: If cloture is invoked, the post-cloture time will be counted as if cloture had been invoked at 10:00 a.m. Monday.

http://www.senate.gov/reference/glossary_term/cloture.htm
cloture - The only procedure by which the Senate can vote to place a time limit on consideration of a bill or other matter, and thereby overcome a filibuster. Under the cloture rule (Rule XXII), the Senate may limit consideration of a pending matter to 30 additional hours, but only by vote of three-fifths of the full Senate, normally 60 votes.

The news is hitting all the enviro sites now. Guess its going to happen. I just can't believe it.... words fail.... a lot of future between now and Monday - there is always hope....

Other misc. links I found before your latest post in my effort to find out more.

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h146/show

http://www.southbayriders.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74386

http://arkansasgopwing.blogspot.com/2009/03/today-in-washington-d-c-march-13-2009.html

Here is who is doing the deed. Harry Reid of course joined in writing by some of the nation's "finest". The Internet has become a wonderous thing in disclosing just how your government does business (while it lasts).

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getpage.cgi?dbname=2009_record&page=S3096&position=all
REVOLUTIONARY WAR AND WAR OF 1812 BATTLEFIELD PROTECTION ACT—MOTION TO PROCEED
Mr. REID. Mr. President, I move to proceed to Calendar No. 27, H.R. 146.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The motion is debatable.
CLOTURE MOTION
Mr. REID. Mr. President, I send a cloture motion to the desk.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The cloture motion having been filed pursuant motion.
The legislative clerk read as follows:
CLOTURE MOTION
We, the undersigned Senators, in accordance with the provisions of rule XXII of the Standing Rules of the Senate, hereby move to bring to a close debate on the motion to proceed to Calendar No. 27, H.R. 146, the Revolutionary War and War of 1812 Battlefield Protection Act.
Bill Nelson - Florida; Richard Durbin - Illnois; Roland W. Burris -Illnois; Benjamin L. Cardin - Maryland; John F. Kerry - Massachusetts; Carl Levin - Michigan; Amy Klobuchar - Minnesota; Harry Reid - Nevada; Jeanne Shaheen - New Hampshire; Robert Menendez - New Jersey; Frank R. Lautenberg - New Jersey; Jeff Bingaman - New Mexico; Kay R. Hagan - North Carolina; Byron L. Dorgan - North Dakota; Jack Reed - Rhode Island; Jim Webb - Virgina; Patty Murray - Washington
Mr. REID. Mr. President, I ask unanimous consent that the mandatory quorum be waived.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without objection, it is so ordered.
Mr. REID. Mr. President, I ask unanimous consent that the vote on the motion to invoke cloture occur at 5:30 Monday, March 16; further, that if cloture is invoked, then the postcloture time count as if cloture had been invoked at 10 a.m. on Monday, March 16; and that during any recess or adjournment period, postcloture time continue to run.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without objection, it is so ordered.

Well... I am glad to see some sanity might come back. There is talk now on democratic party sites that the bill is going to be voted on in the Senate (filibuster/long debate prevented) and will be sent right back to the House for simple majority vote. It will not have any amendment except the one already given for the gun interests.

This is different talk than the thermonuclear course that it was on. On the bright side we don't suspend the constitution (not that it hasn't been done in the past but never over something as mundane as a lands bill or just to make a power statement). So it looks to me that the other senior members reeled Harry "wildman" Reid in.

But now its a huge lands use fight again - first in the Senate on Monday and then the House later in the week where a simple majority vote passes it.

It still will be presented as H.R. 146 with S.22 attached so what was said above applies - except the House re-vote is not being skipped.

I've checked a couple of web sights and haven't found one with S. 22 attached to H.R. 146. Has it been attached or is this a rumor?

Ride on
Brewster

I've checked a couple of web sights and haven't found one with S. 22 attached to H.R. 146. Has it been attached or is this a rumor?

Ride on
Brewster

Yup - it is attached - what I posted above was the slime maneuver to prevent debate using stealth action. Don't know if any opposition in the Senate even knew the S.22 Omnibus Lands was attached to H.R. 146 until after (most senators were not present). What I was very upset over was reports said Reid indicated after exiting the Senate chamber that the bill would not go back to the House for a re-vote because he was planning a rare suspension of rules procedure (basically a dictatorship move that was "over the top"). It appears now that is not going to happen (apparently they have not gone completely insane and made Reid back off) so we have a land use fight instead of a complete constitutional meltdown.

Monday, after the Senate passes H.R. 146, it goes back to the House to be re-voted on a simple majority vote. Still outrageous that this bill will not be debated, except some controlled commentary for Monday, so is being slimed through the Senate once again, and has become a huge power statement by the Democratic leadership. The House leadership will maneuver to prevent debate no doubt and the two bills back together go for a simple majority vote.

You can read it in the congressional record:
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getpage.cgi?dbname=2009_record&page=S3096&position=all
"that following morning business, the Senate resume consideration of the motion to proceed to H.R. 146, the legislative vehicle for the omnibus lands bill.The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without objection, it is so ordered."

This is yet another after hours and weekend slime move by Reid so I imagine the large off-road organizations don't have people sitting in the office to do action alert mailings - but I think they will soon as the news spreads.

http://capwiz.com/amacycle/issues/alert/?alertid=12914591

Action Alert

Omnibus Public Lands Bill to be Voted on Monday, March 16!
Call your Senators NOW!


The American Motorcyclist Association urges everyone to contact their Senators to vote "No" on H.R. 146, the Revolutionary War and War of 1812 Battlefield Acquisition Grant Program. This bill was formerly known as S. 22, the Omnibus Public Land Management Act of 2009, which would prohibit all motorized vehicle access including motorcycles and ATVs on over 2 million acres of public lands. As you may know, S. 22 was defeated just days ago on March 11 in the U.S. House of Representatives.

Now, following defeat of the bill, the U.S. Senate leadership is expected to employ a little used parliamentary procedure that allows them to overcome the outcome of the House vote on S. 22.

The U.S. House of Representatives preserved your access to vital public lands when S. 22 fell two votes short of the two-thirds majority needed to pass on March 11th. The successful defeat of the bill was only accomplished after thousands of concerned individuals, like you, contacted their Representatives to tell them to oppose the legislation. However, the Senate Leadership wants to try and un-do that success by bringing the bill back as a 1,300 page amendment to an unrelated bill for a vote as early as Monday.

With such a short time frame for action, the best way to tell your Senators to vote "No" on H.R. 146 is to call. Click here to get the phone number for your Senators. Enter your zip code in the "Find Your Officials" box and click on the name of your Senators.

If you would prefer to contact your Senators with e-mail, you may contact your Senators by clicking here. We have pre-written a letter for your use.
http://www.amadirectlink.com/legisltn/rapidresponse.asp

Immediate action is critical to help keep 2.1 million acres of public land open to motorized recreation. Please call your Senators and tell everyone you can to do the same.

Next week, every Senator must know to vote "No" on H.R. 146!

My letter to Representative Nunes

Dear Representative Nunes

I am Todd Ockert, from Tulare Ca. I ask that you vote no on H.R. 146 for the following reasons.
This bill in of itself is a bill that I could support, but in its current form with the amendment of S.22 attached, this is a travesity to our form of government. The Senate attached S.22 to try and create more wilderness across this country. I do believe that we need to protect some parts of this great country, but the S.22 amendment is trying to create wilderness from areas that do not conform to the original designation of wilderness by the wilderness act of 1963 for lands that are untouched by man. Many of the areas in S.22 that many in the Senate and House want to make into wilderness already have trails and routes that those that recreate on our public lands use.
The economic impact of S.22 may not effect the central valley much, but other areas around this county will have a huge setback by S.22 to the small local communities around some of these areas. Can we afford to do that to many of these small communities that depend on these dollars from those that recreate in these areas. I would say no...Not when we are already spending TRILLIONS to spur the economy.

I beg you to vote no on H.R. 146 for the good on those that recreate on public lands.

Thank you

Todd Ockert

Yup - it is attached -

You can read it in the congressional record:
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getpage.cgi?dbname=2009_record&page=S3096&position=all
"that following morning business, the Senate resume consideration of the motion to proceed to H.R. 146, the legislative vehicle for the omnibus lands bill.The PRESIDING OFFICER.


PLEASE direct me to any website showing S. 22 as being attached to H.R. 146.
The only connection I see is the wording "Omnibus Lands Bill". I believe that wording is due to the many site locations for the battlefield land acquisitions.

Thanks

Ride on
Brewster

You and I both wish it wasn't true but it is. Beyond belief is it not?

If you are after a copy of the actual legislation - can't help you because we live in a time where the largest financial spending act in the history of human civilization was done without that in advance even for the Senators much less something as mundane as a lands use bill. These are dark times when the outrageous becomes mainstream.

The GPO (government printing office) can not keep up when its done after hours with a weekend in between. Even news organizations mostly recycle the weeks news on weekends unless it is a huge story. This is why Reid picks these time periods.

The tactics being used in Washington since January are outrageous and designed to stifle opposition.

Here is an news article from the S.22 Omnibus Lands bill sponsor Jeff Bingaman (New Mexico and Senate Energy Committee Chairman) spokeswoman Jude McCartin in local news:
http://www.lcsun-news.com/ci_11911049
Bingaman: Bill that could create monument in Robledos likely still has life
By Diana M. Alba/Sun-News reporter
Posted: 03/14/2009 12:00:00 AM MDT
Read the S. 22 bill that failed to pass the House on Wednesday
LAS CRUCES — U.S. Sen. Jeff Bingaman, D-N.M., plans to take a different route in attempting to pass legislation that would create a new national monument west of Las Cruces after an omnibus public lands bill he sponsored was defeated this week in the U.S. House. Jude McCartin, the senator's spokeswoman, said she believes enough support exists for it to be approved.
"We never considered this bill dead," she said...
...McCartin said Bingaman hopes to have the bill added as an amendment to a piece of House legislation that's soon to be considered by the Senate....

http://www.capitolhillreports.com/031509.htm
"The Senate on Monday will vote on Majority Leader Harry Reid's (D-NV) motion to proceed to H.R.146, the new vehicle for the omnibus lands bill that contains various authorizing provisions regarding national wilderness and water conservation along with research and monitoring initiatives. The vote is scheduled for 5:30 PM and will require 60 votes to move to debate on the measure. The chamber easily passed the lands legislation (S. 22) in January, but the House fell two votes shy of clearing the bill last week on a "suspension" vote, which required a two-thirds majority."

http://www.nationalcenter.org/2009/03/outrage-of-day-harry-reid-tries-again.html
Outrage of the Day: Harry Reid Tries Again
Today's Outrage of the Day goes to Senator Majority Leader Harry Reid for his reported intention to try again to get the monster Omnibus Public Land Management Act of 2009 (S. 22) into law without proper deliberation.
Following the bill's defeat last Wednesday (under suspension of rules) in the House, Reid reportedly plans to try again by attaching the huge bill as an amendment to a bill, H.R. 146, "The Revolutionary War and War of 1812 Battlefield Protection Act," that has already received House approval, and is to be voted on early this week in the Senate.
As National Center for Public Policy Research Senior Fellow R.J. Smith pointed out in this extensive commentary last week, it's likely that no one has read the bill-cum-amendment, as it's 1,294 pages long and nine inches thick. There have been no hearings, mark-ups or floor debate about most of it.
What's the hurry, Harry?

If anyone wishes to see the video, it is now on C-span and I have also embedded it here. Reid and company even make a joke of it on second video - note the laughter - a real inside joke. :mad3:
(you have to turn it up loud to hear comments and other laughter - haven't bothered checking who the Presiding Officer was - perhaps a junior senator and that is why they are being coached what to say - it is often a scripted play)

First, here is the original intention Reid indicated that morning at the start of the Senate day. This is what is now happening. I assume he went temporarily "wild" late in the day because he was threatening to do something even more extreme but backed down. So it is now a floor fight Monday to send the bill to committee for the process that should of happened in the first place.

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Mr. Reid I expect to file cloture on a matter to move the lands bill forward forward again, for the information of all Senators. A widely popular bill we sent to the House was put on the consent calendar yesterday and failed by two votes. So we will have to start that process over here again. One of the things they are talking about doing is adding another Idaho wilderness provision to that bill and to send it back over here. But I would hope perhaps we can work something out with people who want us to have to go through all the procedural processes. I hope we do not have to do that. If we do, that is what we will do. We will have a vote Monday morning on the cloture unless we can get something worked out with those who are opposing this. Then, next week, that being the case,we will spend some time on the lands bill.

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Mr. REID. Mr. President
The PRESIDING OFFICER Mr. Majority Leader
Mr. REID. I ask unanimous consent the call to quorum be terminated.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without objection, so ordered
Mr. REID. I now move to proceed to Calendar No. 27, H.R. 146.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The motion is debatable.
Mr. REID. I then send a cloture petition to the desk.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The clerk will report the motion.
The legislative clerk read as follows:
Cloture Motion
We, the undersigned Senators, in accordance with provisions of rule XXII of the Standing Rules of the Senate, hereby move to bring to a close the debate on the motion to proceed to Calendar No. 27, H.R. 146, the Revolutionary War and War of 1812 Battlefield Protection Act. Signed by 17 senators as follows.
Reid of Nevada, Murray, Cardin, Hagan, Dorgan, Durbin,(interrupted)
Mr REID. (unintelligible) I'm going to ask you now something, reading need to be waived
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without objection, it is so ordered.
Mr Reid: Title of the Bill threw me off a little there (laughter)
Mr. REID. I ask that the mandatory quorum be waived.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without objection, so ordered.
Mr. REID. I ask consent that the vote on the motion to invoke cloture occur at 5:30 Monday, March 16; and that if cloture is invoked, the post-cloture time count as if cloture had been invoked at 10 a.m. on Monday, March 16; and post cloture time continue to run during any recess, adjournment, or morning business period.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without objection, so ordered.
Mr. REID. I ask unanimous consent that when the Senate completes its business today, Senate adjourn until 2 p.m. Monday, March 16; that following the prayer and the pledge, the proceedings be approved to date, the morning hour be deemed expired, the time for the two leaders be reserved for their use later in the day; the Senate proceed to period of morning business until 3 p.m.,the Senators permitted to speak for up to 10 minutes each. Following morning business, the Senate resume consideration of motion to proceed to H.R. 146 the legislative vehicle for the Omnibus Lands Bill.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without objection, it is so ordered.
Mr. REID. The next roll-call vote will occur Monday at 5:30 p.m. This vote will be on the motion to invoke cloture on the motion to proceed to H.R. 146.
Mr. REID. Mr. President, if there is no further business to come before the Senate, I ask that we that we stand adjourned under the previous order.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senate stands adjourned until Monday, March 16, 2009, at 2 p.m.

I use feeds and html pages that get updated - I have never used C-Span web site but they will show the Senate live on Monday. Those with a Flash Player can watch it:
http://www.c-spanarchives.org/library/index.php?main_page=product_video_info&products_id=284644-1

I can't do updates tomorrow, got other fish to fry (I'll be scarce for awhile, you all get a reprieve).

With some luck, support for this maneuver will fail before tomorrow afternoon and S.22 Omnibus Lands goes to back to the committee process it should of had already. Would not be the first time Reid backs off - and its always easy to save face by spinning the past to suit the present.

I know it want do any good but I sent this to my state rep. and both senaters.

A bill S.22 failed to pass the senate last week. So Someone inturn hide it inside a bill that the house is suppose to vote on Monday afternoon. H.R 146. I think these need to be keep separate. How is it they can do this little things to keep the public in the dark. It seems that all the Goverment does is try and confuse the public. That way they can do what ever they want, or what ever the person that gives the most to there campaign wants.

As a avid Offroader, its bills like these that affect me most. We are in a major fight to keep OHV land open to use. We are trying to push to get some help from the States in this. But for the most part it seems we are in a uphill fight. We as OHVer don’t have the money to back such matters as we need to. One of the biggest things that would help is to have a voice in D.C. That’s were people like you come in. All we ask for is you give us an effort and a voice. I use offroading to visit and view some of the most beautiful thing nature has to offer. I can cover more land in a days time then most people can cover by foot in a week. This is a way for my kids and I to explore the great things that God created as a family. There is no way that my 6yr old or even my 10yr old could keep up with me and at the same time be able to enjoy all the things nature has to offer
Sincerely

Or it will be soon if you let this happen.

2 million acers will be gone if you don't call right now.

Omnibus Public Land Bill is going to be forced through on MONDAY, Call now and say NO NO, don't do it.


Ensign, John - (R - NV)
(202) 224-6244

Reid, Harry - (D - NV)
(202) 224-3542

Have your friends call too!

Surprise, Surprise!!! Harry reids voicemail is FULL. Yep, all the treehugger MF's already filled it up so YOU can't call. Ensign's mailbox is available but we already know what he will vote on this. It's the MF'n lib that needs the swift kick in the ***. So, email his sorry *** here:

http://www.amadirectlink.com/legisltn/rapidresponse.asp

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE send an email now and call tomorrow. This is no BS guys. This will happen and plated or not our public land access will go the way of the hulahoop. Get on it and send that email to the ******ba

http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm

As a constituent and concerned motorized outdoor recreationist, I am writing to ask that you ask that S. 22, which is being considered as H.R. 146, the Revolutionary War and War of 1812 Battlefield Acquisition Grant Program, be stripped from this bill. Honoring our forefathers is a righteous cause. I am embarrassed to hear that this defeated bill is being tacked on to an otherwise noble cause.

In addition to creating over 2 million acres of new Wilderness, closing all trails to responsible motorized access, the bill will make permanent the National Landscape Conservation System (NLCS). The motorized recreation community is concerned the NLCS would create an additional level of bureaucracy for the National System of Public Lands and would remove much of the authority of the existing agency in managing those lands.

Besides the issue of voting for a bill that has already been defeated, I find a heinous moral wrongdoing in not considering individual bills on their own merit. Shame on you for considering this.

We cannot afford to close any more lands to responsible motorized recreation or slow the land management process with more bureaucratic red-tape; therefore I ask that you vote ‘No’ on H.R. 146 unless it is stripped of any S. 22 content. Thank you for your time and consideration of this important issue.

called both senators and my Rep.

It's being discussed right now on tv, C-SPAN2, Directv 351.
New Mexico senator advocating addition of S22.

Ride on
Brewster

BRC update


BRC Urgent Action Alert
Immediate Action Requested

Omnibus Package Revived In Senate - Vote Scheduled Today

Dear BRC Action Alert Subscriber,

In our last update on the massive omnibus public lands bill, we cautioned our members that the package is far from dead. We wrote: "Worse, possible scenarios are being considered that will prohibit full review as well as opportunity to offer amendments."

True to form, Congress is pushing ahead with yet another vehicle for the omnibus package. This time it's H.R. 146 - "The Revolutionary War and War of 1812 Battlefield Acquisition Grant Program." This otherwise worthy bill will be amended to include the contents of the omnibus package. The Senate is expected to take the bill up at 2 p.m. eastern with the first cloture vote due as early as 5:30 p.m.

At this point it looks as if the Senate leadership will either strike a deal to limit amendments in order for the bill to move quickly, or they will just push it through without allowing any opportunity for amendments. Either way, the bill is likely to see its first cloture vote TODAY!

If the Senate passes the measure it is expected that House leadership will attempt to jam it through via one or more "closed rule" options. D.C. insiders expect House leadership to call the legislation up as a "preferential bill," which would prohibit committee review and limit amendments.

BRC is asking all of our members and supporters to call their Senators NOW. Finding their phone number is easy. Click here and enter your Zip code. Simply tell your Senator that you oppose the Omnibus Public Lands Act and you want them to vote NO on H.R. 146.

Be brief. Be polite. Do it NOW.

As always, if you have any questions or need assistance call or email.

Brian Hawthorne
Public Lands Policy Director
BlueRibbon Coalition
208-237-1008 ext 102

The live feed is on C-Span 2 - cloture vote is happening now - we'll know in a few minutes.
http://www.cspan.org/Watch/C-SPAN2_wm.aspx

Sometimes have to have a strong stomach to watch these things and notice small phrases used.
Here is Reid at the beginning of the day:
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After the cloture vote, Reid hopes the vote on the actual bill will be tomorrow.

The "Dr. Coburn" Reid mentions is Tom Coburn senator from Oklahoma. Apparently Coburn has derailed this temporarily as he promised he would! Coburn deserves my support in his fight against having this huge bill shoved through. Colburn has been an outspoken critic of S.22. He apparently now wants it debated and subject to admendments.
Contact info:
http://coburn.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=ContactSenatorCoburn.Home


Here is Bingaman doing the deed, the poop gets deep on the floor of the Senate.
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Bingaman mentions giving access to Michael Gauthier who is on his subcomittee staff. For the curious:
Michael Gauthier served at Mount Rainier National Park in the climbing and search and rescue program. He is brand new to Washington and joined Subcommittee on National Parks of the Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee staff as part of the Benvinetto program to give selected NPS personel legislative experience for 2 years. Most of its graduates currently serve as park superintendents or program chiefs or in other leadership positions.
http://home.nps.gov/applications/digest/headline.cfm?type=PeopleNews&id=2233

Cloture passes. So H.R. 146 now will be the text of S.22 plus whatever the power structure did to it.
I doubt we will see the actual text of the bill until after the Senate vote tomorrow (little doubt it passes since it will be a simple majority vote). The NRA will apparently be appeased by the inclusion of language that Bingaman read on C-Span today.

H.R. 146 then goes back to House. It is going to take a huge effort to try to stop it in the House without the NRA.

Cloture passes. So H.R. 146 now will be the text of S.22 plus whatever the power structure did to it.


I must have missed where H.R. 146 was ammended to include text of S.22.

Ride on
Brewster

Question: On the Cloture Motion (Motion to Invoke Cloture on the Motion to Proceed to Consider H.R. 146 )
Vote Number: 99 Vote Date: March 16, 2009, 05:31 PM
Required For Majority: 3/5 Vote Result: Cloture Motion Agreed to
Measure Number: H.R. 146 (Revolutionary War and War of 1812 Battlefield Protection Act )
Measure Title: A bill to establish a battlefield acquisition grant program for the acquisition and protection of nationally significant battlefields and associated sites of the Revolutionary War and the War of 1812, and for other purposes.
Vote Counts: YEAs 73
NAYs 21
Not Voting 5
Vote Summary By Senator Name By Vote Position By Home State


Alphabetical by Senator Name Akaka (D-HI), Yea
Alexander (R-TN), Nay
Barrasso (R-WY), Yea
Baucus (D-MT), Yea
Bayh (D-IN), Yea
Begich (D-AK), Yea
Bennet (D-CO), Yea
Bennett (R-UT), Yea
Bingaman (D-NM), Yea
Bond (R-MO), Yea
Boxer (D-CA), Yea
Brown (D-OH), Yea
Brownback (R-KS), Nay
Bunning (R-KY), Nay
Burr (R-NC), Nay
Burris (D-IL), Yea
Byrd (D-WV), Yea
Cantwell (D-WA), Yea
Cardin (D-MD), Yea
Carper (D-DE), Yea
Casey (D-PA), Yea
Chambliss (R-GA), Not Voting
Coburn (R-OK), Nay
Cochran (R-MS), Yea
Collins (R-ME), Yea
Conrad (D-ND), Yea
Corker (R-TN), Nay
Cornyn (R-TX), Nay
Crapo (R-ID), Yea
DeMint (R-SC), Nay
Dodd (D-CT), Yea
Dorgan (D-ND), Yea
Durbin (D-IL), Yea
Ensign (R-NV), Nay
Enzi (R-WY), Yea
Feingold (D-WI), Yea
Feinstein (D-CA), Yea
Gillibrand (D-NY), Yea
Graham (R-SC), Nay
Grassley (R-IA), Nay
Gregg (R-NH), Nay
Hagan (D-NC), Yea
Harkin (D-IA), Yea
Hatch (R-UT), Yea
Hutchison (R-TX), Nay
Inhofe (R-OK), Nay
Inouye (D-HI), Yea
Isakson (R-GA), Nay
Johanns (R-NE), Not Voting
Johnson (D-SD), Yea
Kaufman (D-DE), Yea
Kennedy (D-MA), Not Voting
Kerry (D-MA), Yea
Klobuchar (D-MN), Yea
Kohl (D-WI), Yea
Kyl (R-AZ), Yea
Landrieu (D-LA), Yea
Lautenberg (D-NJ), Yea
Leahy (D-VT), Yea
Levin (D-MI), Yea
Lieberman (ID-CT), Yea
Lincoln (D-AR), Yea
Lugar (R-IN), Yea
Martinez (R-FL), Not Voting
McCain (R-AZ), Nay
McCaskill (D-MO), Yea
McConnell (R-KY), Nay
Menendez (D-NJ), Yea
Merkley (D-OR), Yea
Mikulski (D-MD), Yea
Murkowski (R-AK), Yea
Murray (D-WA), Yea
Nelson (D-FL), Yea
Nelson (D-NE), Yea
Pryor (D-AR), Yea
Reed (D-RI), Yea
Reid (D-NV), Yea
Risch (R-ID), Yea
Roberts (R-KS), Nay
Rockefeller (D-WV), Yea
Sanders (I-VT), Yea
Schumer (D-NY), Yea
Sessions (R-AL), Nay
Shaheen (D-NH), Yea
Shelby (R-AL), Nay
Snowe (R-ME), Yea
Specter (R-PA), Yea
Stabenow (D-MI), Yea
Tester (D-MT), Yea
Thune (R-SD), Nay
Udall (D-CO), Yea
Udall (D-NM), Yea
Vitter (R-LA), Not Voting
Voinovich (R-OH), Yea
Warner (D-VA), Yea
Webb (D-VA), Yea
Whitehouse (D-RI), Yea
Wicker (R-MS), Yea
Wyden (D-OR), Yea

Information from www.thomas.gov on H.R. 146:
H.R.146
Title: A bill to establish a battlefield acquisition grant program for the acquisition and protection of nationally significant battlefields and associated sites of the Revolutionary War and the War of 1812, and for other purposes.
Sponsor: Rep Holt, Rush D. [NJ-12] (introduced 1/6/2009) Cosponsors (10)
Latest Major Action: 3/12/2009 Senate floor actions. Status: Cloture motion on the motion to proceed to the bill presented in Senate.
Note: On 3/16/2009, the Senate will consider the motion to proceed to H.R.146 as the vehicle for the Omnibus Lands bill. (Source: Senate.gov)

I must have missed where H.R. 146 was ammended to include text of S.22.

Ride on
Brewster

Just another day of "hiding the ball" in the Senate. This is very confusing stuff. I am attempting to present highlights and information where those who wish to fish for themselves can go. I'm not writing press releases or speaking for anyone but myself -I'm just a guy watching the magicians do their routines.

I'm not sure of the context off your question. Are you doubting the morph of H.R. 146 into S.22? Do you want to be able to read the Bill so you know exactly what is changed (unfortunately probably not going to happen until after House action)?

When Jeff Bingaman presented in the video above he spelled out what is intended and the text substitution (which I assume eliminates the battlefield bill even though the title is kept).

I never could find an online source for the S.22 maps attached to the bill from the January version for areas I care about. The last text of the changed bill I saw is 3/11/09 from the house:
http://fdsys.gpo.gov/fdsys/delivery/getcontent.action?filePath=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gpo.go v%2Ffdsys%2Fpkg%2FCREC-2009-03-11%2Fpdf%2FCREC-2009-03-11-pt1-PgH3151.pdf

The C-Span embedded link aabove is broken for some reason - C-Span might be doing an update and it will come back online soon. If not, when I get a chance later, I will edit the above post and if necessary correct the C-Span link.

Here are separate window links:
Reid
http://www.c-spanarchives.org/library/includes/templates/library/flash_popup.php?pID=284644-1&clipStart=150.00&clipStop=245.00
Bingaman
http://www.c-spanarchives.org/library/includes/templates/library/flash_popup.php?pID=284644-1&clipStart=4320.00&clipStop=4790.00
Coburn
http://www.c-spanarchives.org/library/includes/templates/library/flash_popup.php?pID=284644-1&clipStart=9845.00&clipStop=10270.00

Tom Coburn also spoke and he does a decent job of describing some of the large problems with the bill and this procedure being used. I will also add the video of Coburn's speech.

The Congressional Record will have the approximate text of the speeches and procedures tomorrow. It is not exact because they use whatever the Close Caption TV people typed - not word for word what was actually said - which can cause confusion. In my first post I transcribed the video myself because the Congressional Record did not have any of the nuance.

I know it want do any good but I sent this to my state rep. and both senaters.

Congrats! - both Tennessee Senators voted No when last time they voted yes!

I'm in Kalifornia - where we have to call DiFi and Ba-ba Boxer (who would have a green shirt enviro army if she could).

BRC Urgent Action Alert
Immediate Action Requested

Omnibus Package Revived In Senate - Vote Scheduled Today

Dear BRC Action Alert Subscriber,

In our last update on the massive omnibus public lands bill, we cautioned our members that the package is far from dead. We wrote: "Worse, possible scenarios are being considered that will prohibit full review as well as opportunity to offer amendments."

True to form, Congress is pushing ahead with yet another vehicle for the omnibus package. This time it's H.R. 146 - "The Revolutionary War and War of 1812 Battlefield Acquisition Grant Program." This otherwise worthy bill will be amended to include the contents of the omnibus package. The Senate is expected to take the bill up at 2 p.m. eastern with the first cloture vote due as early as 5:30 p.m.

At this point it looks as if the Senate leadership will either strike a deal to limit amendments in order for the bill to move quickly, or they will just push it through without allowing any opportunity for amendments. Either way, the bill is likely to see its first cloture vote TODAY!

If the Senate passes the measure it is expected that House leadership will attempt to jam it through via one or more "closed rule" options. D.C. insiders expect House leadership to call the legislation up as a "preferential bill," which would prohibit committee review and limit amendments.

BRC is asking all of our members and supporters to call their Senators NOW. Finding their phone number is easy. Click here and enter your Zip code. Simply tell your Senator that you oppose the Omnibus Public Lands Act and you want them to vote NO on H.R. 146.

Be brief. Be polite. Do it NOW.

As always, if you have any questions or need assistance call or email.

Brian Hawthorne
Public Lands Policy Director
BlueRibbon Coalition
208-237-1008 ext 102

I'm only trying to keep the information accurate. I watched Bingamans speech and the voting. To the best of my knowledge, the ammendment has not yet taken place. Yes, there is intent to do it. My guess is that there is some wording that needs to be changed before the ammendment is put into a motion to change the bill to try to satisfy the NRA folks. A possible sneaky move was to get the vote for cloture to pass first, then ammend the bill.....No discussion. And, like you, I'm confused about what they mean about S22 substituting for the present contents of HR146.

It's a positive thing when any of us try to inform those that don't have the time to do the research.

Ride on
Brewster

I'm only trying to keep the information accurate.

Reading the bill word for word is not possible. No confusion about what they are doing - Omnibus Lands Bill for H.R 146.

You can have your doubt - no problem there. You don't mean, however, you still think H.R. 146 Battlefield is in original form and just being called Omnibus Lands?

The government sites should update in the next 24 to 48 hours - hopefully before the vote happens. The Senate.gov and Thomas.gov has not updated records since last Thursday. That is one of the problems with things happening so fast - the structure can not keep up. If we wait until the government sites do - then we have to stay silent until after things get passed. A lot happens on live feed and short interviews that don't get replayed (such as a enviro lobby group who Reid blabbed to was how I got wind of this).

It is accurate that we don't know the specific language of the Omnibus Lands Bill. We also didn't know that in the January Senate vote or the March House vote either - but we knew 98% of what the Omnibus Lands Bill said because we had the last version available.

Right now, the last version is 3/11 and I gave the link. The 3/11 version has the NRA change Pelosi said they supposedly were OK with in the house. After the vote failed, it was reported the NRA indicated the bill needs more change. Also, some Congressional representatives would like to add more lands. It seems to me we know most of what Omnibus Lands will say from the 3/11 text - with more to come.

If you are indicating we don't know if they are actually doing it and it might not happen - that is completely inaccurate. The intent has gone to action and is a happening thing. For a change, they didn't get up in the Senate and go on the record just to hear themselves. I think the language of politics can be a bit misleading - they rarely say we are shoving it down your throat when they are doing exactly that.

It is a sneaky move not allowing the bill to have a normal process in the first place. I believe the Coburn video goes into this issue and others. He says a lot of things that hit home (along with a couple things I disagree with).

This bill is not subject to the usual amendment process - it will be tweaked by the leadership and placed for a vote tomorrow - perhaps unless the changes upset a lot of people who previously were not upset. I would rather hear it is being taken off tomorrow's schedule - but senate.gov still has it on the home page.

We snooze, we lose - that is the accurate bottom line.
(So call Di-Fi and Baba :D )

Makes me wonder about my letters. Both of my sen. voted NEA.

Letters sent, but both my Senators voted Yea. :(

Reading the bill word for word is not possible. No confusion about what they are doing - Omnibus Lands Bill for H.R 146.

You can have your doubt - no problem there. You don't mean, however, you still think H.R. 146 Battlefield is in original form and just being called Omnibus Lands?
(So call Di-Fi and Baba :D )

Please show me where H.R. 146 has been ammended.

I have no doubt THAT IT WILL BE AMMENDED, but so far, that hasn't taken place.

Rather than debating this here, let's just wait and see who's right.

I've already sent messages to both of our CA. Senators.

Ride on
Brewster

Debate on this is NOW on C-SPAN2
12:30 pm west coast time

Ride on
Brewster

http://www.c-spanarchives.org/library/includes/templates/library/flash_popup.php?pID=284674-101&clipStart=6920&clipStop=
"I'm very pleased today to stand in behalf of and support of H.R. 146. This is what we passed earlier in the Senate as S22 and now because of the procedural necessities between the House and the Senate as we seek to provide an opportunity to this legislation to reach the president's desk, it has been admended into House bill H.R. 146..."
Seantor Mike Crapo - Republican Idaho

I'm not getting your point. Perhaps what you are lamenting is the process always moves forward and the "paperwork" catches up after - and when the Senate is in a rush to do something - we can't read it until days after the deed is already done.

Technically, it is always nothing and nowhere - nothing is real until the vote happens. If we wait for a vote then there is no point of any of the land use organization alerts let alone individuals like me getting up on a soap box to scream "this sucks". It is also true the only thing constant is change.

I'll leave it at I don't get it (not an unusual state for me) - I'm right, wrong, fool, or whatever - who cares?

I'm not a government scholar - like any discipline it has a technical language for precise communication and I am not using it. If it is my manner and lack of decorum - then that is another subject for another day (wouldn't be the first time I am informed my posts here annoy).

As said earlier in this and other threads it takes a while for the system to catch up especially when they do stuff late fridays & even sundays:shaking:

Here is some more proof that HR 146 is just being used to get S.22 through.

Source - http://www.thomas.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/D?d111:1:./temp/~bd8OTp:@@@J|/bss/111search.html|

Item 1 of 1

PREVIOUS:SUBJECT | NEXT:SUBJECT
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H.R.146
Title: A bill to establish a battlefield acquisition grant program for the acquisition and protection of nationally significant battlefields and associated sites of the Revolutionary War and the War of 1812, and for other purposes.

Sponsor: Rep Holt, Rush D. [NJ-12] (introduced 1/6/2009) Cosponsors
(10)

Latest Major Action: 3/16/2009 Senate floor actions. Status: Cloture on the motion to proceed to the measure invoked in Senate by Yea-Nay Vote. 73 -

21. Record Vote Number: 99.
Note: H.R.146 is the vehicle for the Omnibus Lands bill. (Source: Senate.gov)

A must watch video by Senator Coburn - Insists on Debate for Anti-Stimulus Lands Bill

YouTube - Coburn Insists on Debate for Anti-Stimulus Lands Bill (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33ctj4CH5UE)

And looking long term at were I believe the anti access true goal is this from UN article 21.

YouTube - Wildlands Project (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVTGK1uYqJo&feature=channel_page)

Senate set to send Omnibus to House
Calls to Congressional Offices Increasing
BRC urges: Keep Pressure On - But Shift Calls to House of Representatives

*** BRC has new email system. If you have any problems with links not working please send me or Ric an email: brbrian@sharetrails.org or brrichard@sharetrails.org.

Dear BRC Action Alert Subscribers,

Latest news on omnibus lands bill:

Although the official vote in the Senate has not yet taken place, we must be honest and say that the bill is likely to pass either tomorrow or Thursday.

This sends the bill back to the House, and the leadership there is expected to suspend normal rules in order to jam it through without debate or chance of amendments. As we noted in the previous action alert, D.C. insiders expect House leadership to call the legislation up as a "preferential bill," which would prohibit committee review and limit amendments.

For more information on the Omnibus Land Bill, see our previous alerts here.
(http://www.sharetrails.org/alerts/)

Important info:
I need to mention that the number of calls on this omnibus bill have increased over the last few weeks. This is really rare for long running marathon bills like this one.

Your calls are making a difference and many of the legislators you are calling are starting to question why, in a time of financial crisis, is it so important to jam through a $10 - $12 billion land bill.

Another question that should be asked is, "Why is there no opportunity for an amendment?"

I'll take this opportunity to mention a few Congressmen asking the tough questions, including Utah's Rob Bishop and Jason Chaffetz, California's Devin Nunes, Florida's Alcee Hastings, Montana's Denny Rehberg and Oklahoma's Mary Fallin, just to name a few.

Honorable mention goes to Wyoming's Cynthia Lummis, who penned a very well reasoned letter as to why she could not vote for the omnibus bill. I encourage all BRC Action Alert Subscribers to take a minute to read what she said. http://lummis.house.gov/2009/03/lummis-votes-no-on-big-spending-lands-package.shtml

What you need to do:
BRC is asking all of our members and supporters to call their Senators AND their Representatives NOW. Finding their phone number is easy. Just enter your zip code on BRC's Rapid Response Center webpage at http://www.sharetrails.org/rapid_response/.

For Maximum Effectiveness:
Call both Senators and your Congressperson. Three quick phone calls. Simply tell them that you oppose the Omnibus Public Lands Act of 2009. Tell them you oppose putting public lands bills into these "all or nothing" omnibus packages.

Be brief. Be polite. Do it NOW.

As always, if you have any questions or need assistance, call or email.

Brian Hawthorne
Public Lands Policy Director
BlueRibbon Coalition
208-237-1008 ext 102

Bless his oil black heart, Coburn (with help of course - there has to be enough senators supporting him in a non-public manner) is fouling up the "shove it through". Bingaman messed him up a little bit with a procedural move a few hours back but at least this is possibly more of a fight than it looked before. (Read http://www.lcv.org/2008-pdf.pdf to get a sense of who the enviro groups like and hate - Bingaman scores 100%, Coburn 9%)

As that just issued BRC action alert states:
"Important info:
I need to mention that the number of calls on this omnibus bill have increased over the last few weeks. This is really rare for long running marathon bills like this one.
Your calls are making a difference and many of the legislators you are calling are starting to question why, in a time of financial crisis, is it so important to jam through a $10 - $12 billion land bill."

With a lot of luck - Coburn et. al. will find a way to modify this monster before we have to try to stop it in the House. Even with his modifications - it is still bad news for us but there will be a little future hope in the regulatory.

I am attempting to highlight that the Omnibus Lands Bill is not just a bad bill - even the legislative procedure being used should not be tolerated.

This NYT article is somewhat of a spin since the way the amendments are being offered is not what Coburn had in mind. As the New York Times (pro the bill) article points out - the Democratic leadership is attempting to block minority (opposition) rights. The Senate is using H.R. 146 to pass back to the House the Omnibus Lands Bill in a way to prevent the "motion to recommit". This is an outrageous procedure and an abuse of power.

http://www.nytimes.com/gwire/2009/03/17/17greenwire-senate-deal-could-lead-to-smooth-sailing-for-o-10174.html
Senate deal could lead to smooth sailing for public lands omnibus
By NOELLE STRAUB AND ERIC BONTRAGER, Greenwire
Published: March 17, 2009
The Senate is likely to pass the public lands, water and natural resources omnibus bill this week after Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) reached an agreement with Sen. Tom Coburn (R-Okla.) to allow votes on six amendments...
...Senate leaders then devised a strategy to use a bill that had already passed the House -- H.R. 146, a proposal to protect Revolutionary War battlefields -- and strip its contents, replacing it with the omnibus lands bill. Because H.R. 146 has already passed the House, the House Rules Committee can approve a closed rule that would block a motion to recommit, eliminating the GOP's best procedural chance to stymie the bill....
...Because the omnibus may only require a simple majority, Natural Resources Committee ranking member Doc Hastings (R-Wash.) admitted that the bill is all but assured to pass.
While pleased that the Reid-Coburn agreement will allow some amendments on the Senate side, he reiterated that House Republicans have never had the same opportunity. "This skirts the House's right to have a say on how the bill should be amended," he said. "This is not regular order."


The following papers will help those who wish to understand further what is being done and why. The motion to recommit allows the minority a chance to amend a bill on the floor. In a legislative body in which the party in power controls nearly everything, it is one of the few tools the minority has to effect change. The current Omnibus maneuver is being done to prevent the rights of the minority.

House explanation of The Motion to Recommit
http://www.rules.house.gov/archives/recommit_mot.htm

https://www.msu.edu/~rohde/Wolfensberger.pdf
The Motion to Recommit in the House: The Creation, Evisceration, and Restoration of a Minority Right (2003)
Donald R. Wolfensberger - Director, The Congress Project, Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars
"Seizing on a 1934 ruling by the Speaker that the Rules Committee could limit the type of amendments that could be offered in a motion to recommit, Democratic leaders began directing the Rules Committee in the late 1970s to limit the minority’s right, and, by the 1980s, to selectively deny any amendments in motions to recommit on major bills of importance to the majority party.
This practice was reversed when the Republican minority became a majority in 1995, and it fully restored the minority’s right in House rules. Today that guarantee is the thin reed on which the majority often rests its case of fairness to the minority, while otherwise severely limiting or prohibiting other amendments. This development tends to reaffirm the rational choice explanation that rules are made to advance the preferences of the majority and to guard against threats by the minority to defeat or distort those preferences.
However, it remains to be seen how long any majority can sustain itself on such a strained concept of minority rights and fairness--especially in an institution which, for the better part of two centuries, has prided itself on honoring the rights of all members to participate in the legislative process. If the past is prologue, majorities so inclined always sow the seeds of their own destruction."

Another viewpoint:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL34757.pdf
The Motion to Recommit in the House of Representatives: Effects, Recent Trends, and Options for Change (2008)
Congressional Research Service - Megan S. Lynch
Analyst on the Congress and Legislative Process Government and Finance Division
"In practice, the motion to recommit is typically offered after the previous question has been ordered on a measure, but before the House votes on final passage. Preference in recognition for offering a motion to recommit is given to a member of the minority party who is opposed to the bill. It is not in order for the House Committee on Rules to report a special rule that would preclude the offering a motion to recommit a bill or joint resolution prior to its initial passage, including a motion to recommit which contains amendatory instructions."

chasinternet

I posted part of your info above on the New York times web site under comments on the Omnibus bill H.R 146/S. 22.

Link here: http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/03/16/big-public-lands-bill-goes-another-round/#comment-1264171

Thanks

Todd

Now H.R.146 has a proposed ammenment to contain S22. This is what I've been looking for:

March 17, 2009

A bill (H.R. 146) to establish a battlefield acquisition grant program for the acquisition and protection of nationally significant battlefields and associated sites of the Revolutionary War and the War of 1812, and for other purposes.

AMENDMENT NO. 684
(Purpose: In the nature of a substitute)

The PRESIDING OFFICER. The clerk will report the substitute amendment.

The bill clerk read as follows:

The Senator from New Mexico [Mr. BINGAMAN] proposes an amendment numbered 684 .

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?r111:1:./temp/~r111u7QECB:e0:
.......................................

Ride on
Brewster

Latest news on omnibus lands bill:

Although the official vote in the Senate has not yet taken place, we must be honest and say that the bill is likely to pass either tomorrow or Thursday.

This sends the bill back to the House, and the leadership there is expected to suspend normal rules in order to jam it through without debate or chance of amendments. As we noted in the previous action alert, D.C. insiders expect House leadership to call the legislation up as a "preferential bill," which would prohibit committee review and limit amendments.

For more information on the Omnibus Land Bill, see our previous alerts here.
(http://www.sharetrails.org/alerts/)

Important info:
I need to mention that the number of calls on this omnibus bill have increased over the last few weeks. This is really rare for long running marathon bills like this one.

Your calls are making a difference and many of the legislators you are calling are starting to question why, in a time of financial crisis, is it so important to jam through a $10 - $12 billion land bill.

Another question that should be asked is, "Why is there no opportunity for an amendment?"

I'll take this opportunity to mention a few Congressmen asking the tough questions, including Utah's Rob Bishop and Jason Chaffetz, California's Devin Nunes, Florida's Alcee Hastings, Montana's Denny Rehberg and Oklahoma's Mary Fallin, just to name a few.

Honorable mention goes to Wyoming's Cynthia Lummis, who penned a very well reasoned letter as to why she could not vote for the omnibus bill. I encourage all BRC Action Alert Subscribers to take a minute to read what she said. http://lummis.house.gov/2009/03/lummis-votes-no-on-big-spending-lands-package.shtml

What you need to do:
BRC is asking all of our members and supporters to call their Senators AND their Representatives NOW. Finding their phone number is easy. Just enter your zip code on BRC's Rapid Response Center webpage at http://www.sharetrails.org/rapid_response/.

For Maximum Effectiveness:
Call both Senators and your Congressperson. Three quick phone calls. Simply tell them that you oppose the Omnibus Public Lands Act of 2009. Tell them you oppose putting public lands bills into these "all or nothing" omnibus packages.

Be brief. Be polite. Do it NOW.

As always, if you have any questions or need assistance, call or email.

Brian Hawthorne
Public Lands Policy Director
BlueRibbon Coalition
208-237-1008 ext 102

Now H.R.146 has a proposed ammenment to contain S22. This is what I've been looking for:

March 17, 2009

A bill (H.R. 146) to establish a battlefield acquisition grant program for the acquisition and protection of nationally significant battlefields and associated sites of the Revolutionary War and the War of 1812, and for other purposes.

AMENDMENT NO. 684
(Purpose: In the nature of a substitute)

The PRESIDING OFFICER. The clerk will report the substitute amendment.

The bill clerk read as follows:

The Senator from New Mexico [Mr. BINGAMAN] proposes an amendment numbered 684 .

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?r111:1:./temp/~r111u7QECB:e0:

.......................................

Ride on
Brewster

Yup, brew that's it

http://www.congress.org/congressorg/webreturn/?url=http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d111:h.r.146:
the amendments
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/L?d111:./temp/~bdaUh8N:1[1-10](Amendments_For_H.R.146)&./temp/~bdnvxR

The last time cloture was invoked!!!

The Ninety-fifth United States Congress was a meeting of the legislative branch of the United States federal government, composed of the United States Senate and the United States House of Representatives. It met in Washington, DC from January 3, 1977 to January 3, 1979, during the first two years of the administration of U.S. President Jimmy Carter.

Latest video from Senator Coburn on HR146/S22 - YouTube - coburn mar17 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khmerIQmzcA)

The last time cloture was invoked!!!

That was not the last time cloture was invoked.

I think what Wikipedia is refering to is the last time the Dems had the "magic 60" to invoke cloture anytime they wish - but cloture was frowned upon (hey - who knew we would be looking back to those bad ole days as a time when they had some morals!). It was the 95th Congress of 1977-1979, when Democrats held 61 seats during President Jimmy Carter's administration. Carter faced concerns similar to those today -- economic instability, inflation and a 7.5 percent unemployment rate. And we all know how well that worked out.

In 1975, the Democratic Senate majority, having achieved a net gain of four seats in the 1974 Senate elections to a strength of 61 reduced the necessary supermajority to three-fifths (60 out of 100) instead of 2/3 of the Senate (67 out of 100 or 2/3 of those not absent). The new version of the cloture rule, which has remained in place since 1975, makes it considerably easier for the Senate majority to invoke cloture.

The Omnibus Public Lands combination of cloture, substitution of text to an existing bill to block a motion to recommit in the House, procedural isolation of the Coburn amendments, and more cloture - is nothing like I have ever seen or heard of before. This plus sleight of hand in the AIG thing (whipping up emotion in an attempt to achieve government getting around constitution and making legal contracts worthless pieces of paper) makes for truly frightening times ahead.

http://www.senate.gov/pagelayout/reference/cloture_motions/clotureCounts.htm
In the fall of 2007, the 110th Congress's session broke the record, for filibuster cloture votes.By the Fall of 2008 session it had blown the record apart. The 110th doubled the number of votes and times cloture invoked. The 111th is just warming up now. Invoking cloture before any filibuster has even started is a recent development.

http://www.senate.gov/artandhistory/history/common/briefing/Filibuster_Cloture.htm
There is a lot of sick irony to this Omnibus Bill - the Senate page mentioning Mr. Smith Goes to Washington is another one. In that movie, it was a lands use issue - Willett Creek - that was a vehicle for graft and corruption.

http://www.senate.gov/artandhistory/history/minute/Mr_Smith_Comes_To_Washington.htm
Majority Leader Alben Barkley described the film as "silly and stupid," adding that it made the Senate look like "a bunch of crooks."
I think if Barkley was transplanted from 1939 to today, he would be hailing the film as prophecy.

http://www.senate.gov/reference/reference_index_subjects/Cloture_vrd.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloture
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filibuster
http://www.senate.gov/reference/resources/pdf/RL30360.pdf
http://www.gpoaccess.gov/riddick/282-334.pdf

See I am not a lawyer. :homer:

See I am not a lawyer. :homer:

A doctor and a lawyer were attending a cocktail party when the doctor was approached by a man who asked advice on how to handle his ulcer.
The doctor mumbled some medical advice, then turned to the lawyer and asked, "How do you handle the situation when you are asked for advice during a social function?"
"Just send a bill for such advice" replied the lawyer.
On the next morning the doctor arrived at his surgery and issued the ulcer-stricken man a $50 bill.
That afternoon the doctor received a $100 bill from the lawyer.

There is a reason politicians often have law degrees - after all the fancy words, procedural tactics, and "art of war" is done with a smile - its just using fancy words for an ole fashion payday - its still the adage "Follow the money".

Attorney politicians are well practiced at using procedure and redirection - that is part of the magic show. Except in this show when they pull the coin from your ear - it was your money and they don't give it back.

I post a lot of information for looking into how the machine works.... for those who wish to understand the machine and tackle the high ground in dialogue - I'd rather do a street fight actually.

So Doctor Tom Coburn takes on attorney Jeff Bingaman with the help of attorney/Nevada gaming commission Harry Reid (back in the 70s when the mob was still in Vegas) and the political machine. I'm surprised Coburn is even getting heard... then again talk is cheap so what do they care.

I'm surprised Coburn is even getting heard... then again talk is cheap so what do they care.

Bingaman let Coburn try add his amendments so that he could show that he is bipartisan.........and then Bingaman made the motions to table the first three proposed amendments. :shaking:

Ride on
Brewster

I'm trying to do my best not to be cynical and sarcastic toward my government (I know its difficult to tell but I can be that way :p )

But the good doctor is going to get a hard WWE smackdown if he doesn't have a pocket full of political kryptonite for Harry and Jeff.... and I have no idea how he could..... its gonna be tears on the Senate vote floor I guess....

But you never can tell what is going on backstage - so there is always hope.

"Such mad hope. But there it is. Against Asian endless hordes, against all odds, we can do it, we can hold the Hot Gates. We can win." - Dilios' narration in 300 (2007)

The vote is right now...in the middle of it: http://www.c-span.org/Watch/C-SPAN2_wm.aspx

Tom Cochran from Oklahoma gave an amazing speech and had TONS of reasons not to pass this bill. So far it looks like it is passing.

FAWWWWkKKK...It passed 77-20. Boxer is an idiot, always has been, always will be.

Boxer is an idiot, always has been, always will be.

All the dyke triplets are retards.

Something that suprised me in the discussions, was that the REBULICAN senator from Alaska spoke against 5 out of 6 of the amendments that Senator Coburn proposed!

Senator Coburn made some very good points that reflect the way the federal goverment is screwing up. Such as voting in more parks, monuments, etc. while there is a multi billion dollar back log of maintenance needed on the current properties. He was also voted down on his amendment to require an annual inventory on all of the properties under posesssion of the US government, along with their occupancy and state of repair.

Ride on
Brewster

Boxer is an idiot, always has been, always will be.

If she has her way a green shirt army can enter your home without warrant to check your water. (oh wait - we have been doing that for a long time in California - they can enter the home without a warrant to check housing code violations like if your water is working).

senator from Alaska spoke

You forgot - money and power... follow it.... Alaska has strongly supported this all along - Coburn was trying to add some accountability and Congress isn't going to stand for that for themselves...

AP story-
"The bill also would let Alaska go forward with plans to build an airport access road through the Izembek National Wildlife Refuge as part of a land swap that would transfer more than 61,000 acres to the federal government, much of it designated as wilderness. Critics have called the project a "road to nowhere." Backers say the road is needed for residents of a remote village on the Bering Sea who now use a hovercraft to reach an airport and hospital"
Also - Alaska gets a law that makes federal lands employees compete with other job applicants for their job. Something they badly want up there.

I couldn't watch it - which is the 1 Coburn amendment they approved? Oh - the fossil thing? That would figure since the Universities and liberal left was upset over that one....

Its on to the House and fight it there.

PUBLIC LANDS: Omnibus clears Senate, heads for House vote next week (03/19/2009)

Eric Bontrager and Noelle Straub, E&E reporters

The House will take up the public lands, water and natural resources omnibus bill next week, potentially sending the measure to President Obama for his signature.

Today, the Senate passed the bill for the second time this year, 77-20, as part of a complicated maneuver to prevent House Republicans from offering contentious amendments.

House National Parks Subcommittee Chairman Raúl Grijalva (D-Ariz.) said he expects the House will move quickly to approve the omnibus. "It will happen next week," he said. "I'm hearing Thursday from the leadership, so it'll probably be Tuesday."

The bill will come up under a rule, a House Democratic aide said.

Assuming the House passes the omnibus, Grijalva said he would like to begin work on a new another lands package, including new wilderness designations, for consideration later this year or early next year.

Before today's vote, senators accepted one amendment but rejected two others that Democrats allowed Sen. Tom Coburn (R-Okla.) to offer as part of a deal in exchange for allowing the bill to proceed. Yesterday they rejected three others.

Coburn, who placed "holds" on many of the bills in the omnibus for months last year, said the bill contains earmarks, limits energy development on public lands, and is an example of "hyper-parochialism" under which senators put items they wanted for their home states over the long-term good of the country.

The Coburn amendment that was accepted by voice vote would clarify the bill to allow the "casual collection" of rocks in parks that may contain a fossil, preventing criminal prosecution of visitors who unintentionally take a fossil. It would keep penalties for those who knowingly take or sell fossils from parks.

One of the amendments defeated today would have struck certain sections that Coburn deems frivolous, such as the $3.5 million to celebrate the 450th anniversary of St. Augustine, Fla., in 2015, and a salmon restoration project in California. Coburn said the California provision would amount to the government spending hundreds of millions of dollars to protect 500 fish. But Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) said his amendment would have destroyed a widely supported, court-approved settlement of an 18-year legal battle. The Senate voted 70-27 to table, or kill, the amendment.

The other amendment would have required federal agencies to issue an annual report detailing the total amount of land they own and the cost to taxpayers of the ownership of the land. It was tabled, 58-39.

Last week, the House fell two votes shy of passing the bill under suspension of the rules, a maneuver that shields legislation from amendment or a motion to recommit but requires a two-thirds majority for passage. Senate leaders then devised a strategy to use a bill that had already passed the House -- H.R. 146, a proposal to protect Revolutionary War battlefields -- and strip its contents, replacing it with the omnibus lands bill. Because the House already passed H.R. 146, the chamber will only need to vote to concur with the Senate amendment.

The omnibus would designate more than 2 million acres of wilderness in nine states and would establish three new national park units, a new national monument, three new national conservation areas, more than 1,000 miles of national wild and scenic rivers and four new national trails. It would enlarge the boundaries of more than a dozen existing national park units and establish 10 new national heritage areas.

It would also authorize numerous land exchanges and conveyances to help local Western communities address water resource and supply issues, and includes provisions to improve land management.

The revised omnibus bill will also include language from Rep. Jason Altmire (D-Pa.) meant to ensure that the omnibus would not close off lands that are already open to hunting and fishing.

Conservation groups praised the Senate passage.

The Wilderness Society's Paul Spitler said the Senate move "clears the most significant hurdle to protecting some of the country's most cherished landscapes."

"These wonderful landscapes are under tremendous pressure, and their value to local communities and to all Americans who treasure our natural heritage will remain long after the country has recovered from the economic crisis," Spitler said in a statement, although he expressed concern over a provision allowing construction of a road through Alaska's Izembek National Wildlife Refuge.

"Today, Congress has helped ensure that we will have a wild legacy to pass on to our children and grandchildren," said Sierra Club Executive Director Carl Pope. "This bill helps guarantee that future generations will be able to hike in pristine forests from California to West Virginia. They'll be able to fish America's untouched rivers, watch antelope migrate through Wyoming, and take their families camping in the stunning Rocky Mountains."

These people are insane. :shaking:

:mad3:

Eagle-Mark - why are you posting the same thing in the other six threads?

Especially from
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_and_Energy_Study_Institute
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environment_and_Energy_Publishing

I use their stuff for commentary but I'm not trying to promote them :D