Just wondering.. I am still out truck hunting waiting for a good deal (no hurry) and realized, long term, a camper on the back and trailer for two rigs. Thats pushing 27,000lbs, maybe a little more.

How much power do you need to pull grades and accelerate reasonably?

I had a 96 7.5 ford gasser, camper, truck, and trailer weighed about 13,500. got between 6-9 MPG loaded with 3.55 gears, 45-50 up the hills. The 96 7.5 had about 230 HP/360 FP torque. I just got a cummins, wow, 70 up the hills 16.5 empty/10.5 loaded at 14,000, cummins is rated at 265/460. If you run heavily loaded with gasser, make sure and get 4.10's, even with a BB. But after hauling with a diesel, I wouldn't go back to a gas again. Both Ford and Dodge have good diesels if you can swing one.

Twalder, as much as you can get. I used to drive trailer truck, and at first I drove with 300hp and about 1100 lb-ft and it was ok. Then I gt another truck with a 425hp cat with about 1400lb-ft and it was better. At the end, I got a trickwith a Cummins 600hp with about 2000lb-ft, and I was :smokin: :D. And they all got about the same miles per gallon. At 120,000lbs, which was 40k overweight, there was no hill on the east coast I could not go into at 70 and not be doing 80 at the top...

LOL! I'de like to stick to a 1 Ton truck though! I don't think I can afford a kenworth or similar as a DD. :p

Hills.. Well.. the hills out here are I-90 (snoqualmie pass), the last 3 miles, I have only seen one loaded big rig do 70mph up and over, most are 35-45mph and happy to be doing that.

The I-90 grade out of vantage is the worst I can think off around here. Most I have seen take it only can pull 25-30mph. I was able to do 55mph towing 8,000lbs with my 360 but it was WOT in 2nd gear@3,200rpms getting 2mpg. Thats 240hp/335ftlb in a 14-15,000 GCVW. now that grade, I don't care if I can only do 35mph up it, but would like to be able to do it without overheating in 100+degree desert temps.

Well if you want to limit yourself to a 1 ton... I would get a Dodge with the Cummins or a Powerstroke Ford and then talk to someone like Gale Banks at www.bankspower.com and bolt on the power. I would also strongly suggest an exhaust brake. That way you can come down the hills fast and in control...http://www.bankspower.com/test_results_AF01.cfm over 300hp and almost 700lb-ft at the rear wheels with an auto tranny is pretty good for a powerstroke...

In sweden some of the hardcore wheelers use older big trucks to transport their competition rigs. Why don't americans use older big trucks to transport their rigs?
Most of the truck they use in Sweden looks like this and is about 15 years old.
http://138.106.100.14/AdPics/Truck32748Small.jpg

We probably don't use big trucks like that since most of us use our tow rigs as daily drivers.

madmarx, with 300hp/1100ftlb how much were you towing and it was "ok".. was thinking if you were towing 60,000lbs, If I bolt on the cummins stuff to get nearly 700ft/lbs I might at least be ok towing 27,000lbs.

I've also thought about just making the 30' gooseneck that isn't built yet a little longer and putting the slide in camper on it. But, wow that would be one long ass rig to be towing around.38-40' trailer, 22' truck, about 2-3' tongue. I'de be ok with that but think my parking options at 4x4 destinations would be limited.

Yea, the 300/1100 was hauling 80-100k. It was an 855 cubic inch inline 6 with a 13 speed roadranger and 4.10's. I had the pump and governor turned up a bit. I could spin it to 2450rpm. It would pull from 1400 up. When I said ok, I mean I would be constantly shifting up and down depending on the hill. I also used to drive straight truck. With a 210/700 DT466 with a 6 speed running around with 30k, I was able to run with traffic except on hill when I would get left behind. The most fun straight truck I used to drive was a 10 wheeler with a Chevy 366 v8 gas motor with a quadrajet and a 5/2 speed. We had to rev the pee outta it and it would kill a motor every 75k or so. We used to load that to about 50k

Boltons to 700ft/lbs with 27k will work just fine. But believe me when I say you will need an exhaust brake. It is nice to be able to go down hills with control and no burning brakes.

my 02 psd stock was 245 hp and 525 ft lb torque i modifyed it and i like it alot better now.

current state of tune:
350 hp
700 ft lbs torque.

Originally posted by Madmarx
Yea, the 300/1100 was hauling 80-100k. It was an 855 cubic inch inline 6 with a 13 speed roadranger and 4.10's. I had the pump and governor turned up a bit. I could spin it to 2450rpm. It would pull from 1400 up. When I said ok, I mean I would be constantly shifting up and down depending on the hill. I also used to drive straight truck. With a 210/700 DT466 with a 6 speed running around with 30k, I was able to run with traffic except on hill when I would get left behind. The most fun straight truck I used to drive was a 10 wheeler with a Chevy 366 v8 gas motor with a quadrajet and a 5/2 speed. We had to rev the pee outta it and it would kill a motor every 75k or so. We used to load that to about 50k

Boltons to 700ft/lbs with 27k will work just fine. But believe me when I say you will need an exhaust brake. It is nice to be able to go down hills with control and no burning brakes.


I figured an exhaust brake was going on no matter what. Auto would be nice, but I'm not going to send 700ft/lb through it. So 5 speed it is.

I'm prolly looking for a 94 cummins at this point. HO is not where its at for bolt on power. :)

Originally posted by camo
my 02 psd stock was 245 hp and 525 ft lb torque i modifyed it and i like it alot better now.

current state of tune:
350 hp
700 ft lbs torque.

What mods did you make?

Is it a 6spd?

I'm planning on buying an F-350 PSD 4x4 this fall with the 7.3L.

Originally posted by nobody20


What mods did you make?

Is it a 6spd?

I'm planning on buying an F-350 PSD 4x4 this fall with the 7.3L.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=65897

100 hp chip from super chips
gale banks trans command
afe intake kit
4" turbo bake exhaust
gauges

it will probally kill the tranny before 100k miles though. when it does i will have a company by the name of sun coast build me a bullet proof tranny. in the mean time i drive it like it is stolen. :D it hauls ass and i love to hammer it.

Hey Camo, FWIW, I've spoken with a few Dodge guys who weren't too happy with their Suncoast converters. ATS (here in Denver) has a slick new triple-disk lockup converter out, and a lot of guys like Diesel Transmission Technology (out of Canada) too. As for holding up to power, I watched one of ATS's trucks run a 12.8 quarter mile, on 315/75R16s, in the heat.

Of course I'm talking out my ass somewhat, since I don't know jack about Ford trannys, and I drive a stick myself. :D

Pete

thanks for the 411. i will check them out. i know a few guys with complete suncoast trannys that are living under prutal power and towing conditions. but it never hurts to check out other shops.

Originally posted by camo


http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=65897

100 hp chip from super chips
gale banks trans command
afe intake kit
4" turbo bake exhaust
gauges

it will probally kill the tranny before 100k miles though. when it does i will have a company by the name of sun coast build me a bullet proof tranny. in the mean time i drive it like it is stolen. :D it hauls ass and i love to hammer it.

I would love to do that, but I don't want to void my 7/70 power train warrenty. I doubt the auto tranny will live to 7/70 in my 02 3500 dodge since 80% of it's miles are loaded, but my wife won't drive a stick so I had to get a auto. Even in stock form I have no problem keeping up with traffic. I think I will put in a EGT and trans temp gauge. I run about 140 miles loaded through the coast range almost every weekend either wheelin, fishin, or hunting. I'll save my shop hours for my heep.

Originally posted by camo
my 02 psd stock was 245 hp and 525 ft lb torque i modifyed it and i like it alot better now.

current state of tune:
350 hp
700 ft lbs torque.


that's all?? WEENIE!

mine was outta hte box @ 275/525

currently sitting @ 400/765


:flipoff2:

Originally posted by DSI



that's all?? WEENIE!

mine was outta hte box @ 275/525

currently sitting @ 400/765


:flipoff2:

yet.. you can only do 55. :flipoff2:


(hint.. when upgrades are installed... it takes more than the stickers on the outside to make it happen. ;) )

:p

Originally posted by twaldher


yet.. you can only do 55. :flipoff2:


(hint.. when upgrades are installed... it takes more than the stickers on the outside to make it happen. ;) )

:p


smart ass...

naaa after injector o-ring's, cam sensor and a reflash of the PCM she run's SWEET! so i figured why not pop that 125hp B-D freshly programmed to match my PCM and see what she'd do... i'm guessing if i could use the 4wd she's probably bark 3 tires at least :D

Originally posted by Madmarx
Yea, the 300/1100 was hauling 80-100k. It was an 855 cubic inch inline 6 with a 13 speed roadranger and 4.10's. I had the pump and governor turned up a bit. I could spin it to 2450rpm. It would pull from 1400 up. When I said ok, I mean I would be constantly shifting up and down depending on the hill. I also used to drive straight truck. With a 210/700 DT466 with a 6 speed running around with 30k, I was able to run with traffic except on hill when I would get left behind. The most fun straight truck I used to drive was a 10 wheeler with a Chevy 366 v8 gas motor with a quadrajet and a 5/2 speed. We had to rev the pee outta it and it would kill a motor every 75k or so. We used to load that to about 50k

Boltons to 700ft/lbs with 27k will work just fine. But believe me when I say you will need an exhaust brake. It is nice to be able to go down hills with control and no burning brakes.

Was that a small cam or a big cam engine? And those blue ox style exhaust brakes aren't worth a shit, to bad they don't make a Jake for the medium duty engines. :D

I remember teh 300 hp was a big cam, and I think the 600 was a V12. I remember a Mack 500 I got to drive was a v8 and that went pretty good, but nothing like that 600. I was only able to use the 600 for a couple months. The owner originally bought the truck to haul pulp wood in northern Maine, but decided to use it as a over the road truck for a while and he let me use it for a while.

I drove a 550 Cat last year. Rolled the throttle on, on a 6% upgrade, like I would in my 425 kitty and just smoked the tires. Couldn't use all the power it had. Drove a 12V71 for awhile in '79 that had a 13 plus a 4 spd brownie. in over/ over that thing would top out about 135 mph. I just left the brownie in direct.

Originally posted by Madmarx
I think the 600 was a V12.

If it was a 600 cummins with the red valve covers it's a dual overhead cam 6 cly.

Originally posted by camo
my 02 psd stock was 245 hp and 525 ft lb torque i modifyed it and i like it alot better now.

current state of tune:
350 hp
700 ft lbs torque.

Big Dog :smokin:

Did you change your fuel delivery at all (gas tank, pre-filter, or is all of that stock, fuel mods).

Originally posted by twaldher
Just wondering.. I am still out truck hunting waiting for a good deal (no hurry) and realized, long term, a camper on the back and trailer for two rigs. Thats pushing 27,000lbs, maybe a little more.

How much power do you need to pull grades and accelerate reasonably?

:confused: How do you get 27,000? figure 7000 lb truck 2200 lb camper, 3000 lb trailer 2 4000lb rigs that is around 20,000. Do you even have any idea what it is like to tow that much weight? I rolled back home yesterday from over east weiging in at around 21,000. I would not want to be that much heavier than that. to pull long steep grades In the 700+ ftlbs would be ok and around 350 hp. so a chev 6.5 is out of the question. the powerstrokes go good I would not buy a cummins prior to the 94. the engine is considerably less power and requires more $$ to make power. a good place to go http://www.turbodieselregister.com/index.html there are some nice rigs on this site for decent prices as well. a very good place for deisel info. there is a nice ford on the site with an 8.1 cummins in it :D that would probibly pull your 29,000 pretty good! considering it has 1080 ftlbs STOCK!

Originally posted by DSI



smart ass...

naaa after injector o-ring's, cam sensor and a reflash of the PCM she run's SWEET! so i figured why not pop that 125hp B-D freshly programmed to match my PCM and see what she'd do... i'm guessing if i could use the 4wd she's probably bark 3 tires at least :D


and the tranny temp now being????? :flipoff2: so let me guess.....you let it idle for 2 hours instead of the 1 to let it cool! LOL

Originally posted by SNORTclown



and the tranny temp now being????? :flipoff2: so let me guess.....you let it idle for 2 hours instead of the 1 to let it cool! LOL


Ummmm, i popped it back out before i hooked up to the trailer saturday since i had a feeling the tranny was going to get hot, and sure as can be the motor started running on 7 again as you heard... but on the way home it hit on all 8 just fine :D


and ya with the chip in the tranny hang's right @ 195 :D

Originally posted by KMAN


Big Dog :smokin:

Did you change your fuel delivery at all (gas tank, pre-filter, or is all of that stock, fuel mods).

all stock. ......................so far :D

Originally posted by camo


all stock. ......................so far :D

on a side note i did replace teh fuel line from the tank to teh pump with a 5/16 diesel approved line with real hose clamps, i also have got all the goodies to turn the fuel pressure up to 72 PSI where it NEEDS to be instead of teh 55-63 that ford sends it with...

Originally posted by SNORTclown


:confused: How do you get 27,000? figure 7000 lb truck 2200 lb camper, 3000 lb trailer 2 4000lb rigs that is around 20,000. Do you even have any idea what it is like to tow that much weight? I rolled back home yesterday from over east weiging in at around 21,000. I would not want to be that much heavier than that. to pull long steep grades In the 700+ ftlbs would be ok and around 350 hp. so a chev 6.5 is out of the question. the powerstrokes go good I would not buy a cummins prior to the 94. the engine is considerably less power and requires more $$ to make power. a good place to go http://www.turbodieselregister.com/index.html there are some nice rigs on this site for decent prices as well. a very good place for deisel info. there is a nice ford on the site with an 8.1 cummins in it :D that would probibly pull your 29,000 pretty good! considering it has 1080 ftlbs STOCK!

I was figuring the following:
truck - 7,000lbs
camper - 4,000lbs (figure water, supplies, etc. granted on high side)
Trailer - 4,000lb
2 Rigs - 4,800lb (my rig weighed) x 2

Thats 24,600lb.

Something like this I'm figuring on more weight than I'de really be at as a margin of safety. (The trailer would be build with tandem 10,000lb axles, brakes on both axles to handle most of the breaking.)

For $$$ reasons I was thinking the 94-96 ram dually diesel, manual. anything else would probably be too new.

Originally posted by twaldher


I was figuring the following:
truck - 7,000lbs
camper - 4,000lbs (figure water, supplies, etc. granted on high side)
Trailer - 4,000lb
2 Rigs - 4,800lb (my rig weighed) x 2

Thats 24,600lb.

Something like this I'm figuring on more weight than I'de really be at as a margin of safety. (The trailer would be build with tandem 10,000lb axles, brakes on both axles to handle most of the breaking.)

For $$$ reasons I was thinking the 94-96 ram dually diesel, manual. anything else would probably be too new.


By your numbers it looks like you need triple axles, not tandem. I have towed two rigs in trailers that are almost identical, except one is tandem and one is triple. You will want the extra axle to help displace the weight, and for better stopping power. I have hauled both of the trailers down to the Hammers and back, so I was able to get a pretty good feel for both of them........... triple axles is the only way to go with that much weight.

BTW- my 8.5 ft camper weighs 1750 lbs. 210 lbs. for water (it's a 30 gallon tank), and probably a couple hundred more for clothes and gear. That's only around 2150 lbs. 4000 lbs seems pretty extreme to me. Also, if you are going to be towing that much weight (13,600) I would go to a gooseneck style trailer. That is an awefull lot of weight to pulling with one little 5/8 in. hitch pin.

hey twaldher if you get the dodge go to h&h diesel in fife my buds work there. they can pump that bad boy up real good real reasonable. you dont need that banks and bd crap! my 98 has 375 horse marine injectors and a 95' pump turned up double than stock. you probably have seen it runnin around silver ex-cab with stacks:eek:

If you get a dodge and want a used truck that can make lots of power stick with the 97-98 12v motor. It is by far the easiest motor to make more power with. The 24v motor is easy to make more power with (computer boxes) but they are expensive, but impressive.

There are many choices out there, but one of the best for the 12v motors is Piers Diesel Research in Abbotsford BC. He can tune a 12v like few others. If you get an auto tranny and are in BC, go by Diesel Transmission Tech (in Abbostford also) and Bill can make your tranny withstand what ever abuse you can dish out.

If you get a 24v truck check out www.dieseldynamics.com They have trucks pushing 700+ hp (with nitrous and propane) and diesel only truck running 600 hp.

My 2001 Cummins has roughly 430 HP and 800+tq. I have not put it on a dyno as of yet so these numbers are from guy with the same mods I have.