Put your /tinfoil hats on for this logistics and tactics argument.

So i was listening to some dude in chatting with his brother Jim Bob buying as much .223 as he could afford in Walmart the other day going on about how nobody was gonna take his guns without a fight. Yeah ok. I'm not trying to be a pessimist, just a realist.

For example lets say we are talking about average Joe american, with a house, wife, kids etc etc. We will say for the sake of argument he has (at least) and AR, a scoped hunting rifle, and a pistol. Hypothetically if something were to happen like in Katrina, you would have well armed patrols (4+) of police officers if not full on National guard units doing sweeping seizures. They are all better armed then you are. I seriously doubt that anybody will put up much of a fight against a better armed force, at least with his AR and bunkered down in his home. I imagine having a large number or automatic rifles/carbines/machine guns aimed at your or your house is enough to un-nerve even the craziest of civilians. History seems to favor long distance guerillas when smaller forces take on better armed larger ones. So wouldn't a long distance large caliber rifle make a better SHTF gun? Where you didn't have to get close, could move around etc etc. And in the event where you and a few friends get together and make a stand theres always artillerty or some sort and you make an easier target grouped together, so that argument is kinda mute. The story of that "White Death" dude over in Europe during WWII comes to mind as a good example. I'm sure if he took his AR/AK out instead of his sniper rifle he would have been dead in the first few weeks.

I was just mulling this over and the reality of "Nobody is gonna take my guns" sadly seems to be as hollow as the statement.

The answer to the scenario you're posing would be AR-10....

With or without an emergency decleration for the area?

so...I have some guns in my house that I will GLADLY give to the armed patrols when they come around...then I have others that are hidden that I will use to take out as many of these armed patrols as possible from a location other than my home...given a Katrina like scenario.


none of this take it from my dead hands bullshit. use some common sense please. no one wants a firefight at their home, where would you live afterwards?

You are assuming you have time to get away from the squads and find a good roost to snipe from.


you can get the white death fellas rifle for $99 at big 5, $55 to have the bolt turned and however much you want to spend on a scope/mount

sure, I will have lots of time...you ever watched them in action? lollygagging around, joking, laughing, etc...no way they are serious when they were working in NO. even mall ninjas coulda got some.


oh, yeah...FA 308 should do just fine.

It's not the weapon, it's the tactics used to employ it.

You don't want to get into a gunfight at all, if you can avoid it, especially when faced with more men and superior firepower. If you are going to shoot at people who are professional trigger-pullers, you should do your best to avoid detection and put as much distance between you and them as possible. They can't return fire if they don't know where you are.

A smart man can use whatever weapons are available to take his enemy's superior weapons.

The trick in my eyes will be when to identify them as a threat vs performing the service of security patrols. You don't want to gun down a national guardsman thats just making sure your neighbors house is secure. Then again, you don't want to open the door to be greeted by a squad of guys coming to seize everything you own.

The trick in my eyes will be when to identify them as a threat vs performing the service of security patrols. You don't want to gun down a national guardsman thats just making sure your neighbors house is secure. Then again, you don't want to open the door to be greeted by a squad of guys coming to seize everything you own.

That's the beauty of observation. You can watch your enemy and make an educated guess as to what will happen when he turns your way.

Psycological warfare is a bitch.

Quick 30 second theoretical thought:

1. They come to get my guns, I hand over a sacrificial lamb.
2. For arguments sake, lets say they are running 6 man patrols. I organize 10 of my buddies.
3. As they move through the neighborhood, I setup ambushes for the patrols. We waste these six man patrols one by one.
4. Word gets out to the bureau's workforce who are conducting said patrols. Now all of the sudden the patrolees are scared to do their job. A bunch quit.
5. The more that get killed, the more quit, the more we win.

Psycological warfare is a bitch.

Quick 30 second theoretical thought:

1. They come to get my guns, I hand over a sacrificial lamb.
2. For arguments sake, lets say they are running 6 man patrols. I organize 10 of my buddies.
3. As they move through the neighborhood, I setup ambushes for the patrols. We waste these six man patrols one by one.
4. Word gets out to the bureau's workforce who are conducting said patrols. Now all of the sudden the patrolees are scared to do their job. A bunch quit.
5. The more that get killed, the more quit, the more we win.

Do you know how to set up an effective ambush?

Do you have the firepower to take out an armoured patrol?

Do your neighbors have the willpower to fire effectively under return fire?

Do you know how to set up an effective ambush?

Do you have the firepower to take out an armoured patrol?

Do your neighbors have the willpower to fire effectively under return fire?



Are these prerequisites for willing to lay your life down for the rights of the citizens?

Are these prerequisites for willing to lay your life down for the rights of the citizens?

Nope, but it sure is a lot better if you can kill them, and not die in the process :homer: :shaking:


Nothing wrong with being willing. But you have to be able, or be under the tutelage of some one who's able, or it's a waste.

I'm shotin mall nimjas 1st, they gots all that cool gear I can trade for smokes & blow & hookers:D

when there is a knock at my door. I'm going to try mind control with this
http://www.eatmedaily.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/bacon-explosion.jpg

They'll either leave me alone or keep comming back, keeping me well protected.

when there is a knock at my door. I'm going to try mind control with this
http://www.eatmedaily.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/bacon-explosion.jpg

They'll either leave me alone or keep comming back, keeping me well protected.

bad ass red X dude:laughing:
my mind hurts:flipoff2:

bad ass red X dude:laughing:
my mind hurts:flipoff2:

werked for me :confused:
http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n442/kd4yor/screen.jpg?t=1238025918

werked for me :confused:
http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n442/kd4yor/screen.jpg?t=1238025918
sure now it works...........:confused::flipoff2:

Nope, but it sure is a lot better if you can kill them, and not die in the process :homer: :shaking:

Well when the SOP for fighting the zombies comes out, you let me know.



Nothing wrong with being willing. But you have to be able, or be under the tutelage of some one who's able, or it's a waste.

You think the majority of the "willing" Americans are going to know what they are doing when SHTF?

Of course knowledge is power; however, the will to fight is even more powerful.

Strength in numbers will win this one. Not who knows how to "effectively execute an ambush".

People will fight the best they know how. Period.

They can have everything in the safe. ;)

They can have everything in the safe. ;)

what if they come for everything on "DA BOOKS":eek:

going to be doing my own ar 15 lower for a pistol build, no need to reg it so they won't know about that, old guns or C & R stuff:)
but most my cool guy stuff is on "DA BOOKS":mr-t:

what if they come for everything on "DA BOOKS":eek:

going to be doing my own ar 15 lower for a pistol build, no need to reg it so they won't know about that, old guns or C & R stuff:)
but most my cool guy stuff is on "DA BOOKS":mr-t:

The only thing you can own in Cali that is on the books is handguns.
Long guns are not registered.
All gun store owners i have talked too said they would destroy their dros receipts and gun receipts if anyone ever came to take them to confiscate guns. :D
So no worries here, all I own are long guns. :D

The only thing you can own in Cali that is on the books is handguns.
Long guns are not registered.
All gun store owners i have talked too said they would destroy their dros receipts and gun receipts if anyone ever came to take them to confiscate guns. :D
So no worries here, all I own are long guns. :D

FEDS-=BATF? still has them, & gun stores keep them I think 20 years
just asked my dealer, yes the S/N's are recorded

FEDS-=BATF? still has them, & gun stores keep them I think 20 years
just asked my dealer, yes the S/N's are recorded

please expound.
I was under the impression the 4437 stayed at the FFL and was not recorded.


I gotta go back to the basis for the requested search and possible seizure. Is it under a declared emergency or martial law scenario? or "just because" or a new law banning everything?
At some point warrants or lack of could come into play.

please expound.
I was under the impression the 4437 stayed at the FFL and was not recorded.


I gotta go back to the basis for the requested search and possible seizure. Is it under a declared emergency or martial law scenario? or "just because" or a new law banning everything?
At some point warrants or lack of could come into play.

Dealer told me FEDs get it all
best source is usually www.calguns.net since they are always fighting these laws, thank god :)

This is great and all.... but what the fawk are you gonna do when helocopters start coming and everyone is watching you through thermal imaging? The technology we've allowed our government to develope and use to protect us can also be used against us. And Im pretty damn sure theres not a single person on this board that can afford ANY of that shit to use AGAINST them.

Id imagine your best option is to hightail it away from the superior force unless you know for a fact they dont have technology that there is no way you can escape if they employ it. So ya.... city cops and the like.... you could fight and probably lay waste to them with proper planning and tactics. Shit.... back in the 1960s you could hide from helocopters, tanks and artilery... seemed like the common thought back then was carpet bomb the entire freakin area to get your one of two bad guys... something youd hope would never be choosen by our government because of the collateral damage to sheeple and infrastructure. But in 2009.... they can track you for hours and hours.... watch you fuck your girlfriend through a satelite.... then as soon as they see you picl up a rifle.... send a small missle up your ass and destroy an area no bigger than your average house.

dealer keeps 4473 til they quit..I have 4473 from 1980.
no one knows except me and the buyer. UNLESS, BATFE asks for a search if a gun is recovered from a crime scene or criminal, then I gotta tell them who bought it from me.

when there is a knock at my door. I'm going to try mind control with this
http://www.eatmedaily.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/bacon-explosion.jpg

They'll either leave me alone or keep comming back, keeping me well protected.
yes. in my best Obi-Wan voice: these aren't the guns you're looking for

Not that I have any first hand knowledge of such things, but back in the 90's, a militia group in Illinois got to play around with some thermal imaging equipment. It can be counter-acted. Not entirely defeated, but there are things that can be done to aid in concealment. These countermeasures can be incorporated into a large ghille suit, or small portable shooter's blind.

Also, any helicopter close enough to make effective use of the tested equipment would be well within comfortable range of a rifle with open sights. If the chopper were to hold still, it could be removed from the equation.

I'm just sayin'.

Are these prerequisites for willing to lay your life down for the rights of the citizens?


Don't die for your country. Make the other guy die for his.

I'm handing over a lamb and fading into the deep timber.

From there things start happening. Advantages.

1) I know the terrain
2) I know the locals
3) I know how to reach out and touch someone if needed
4) Some of the locals are good resupply points
5) Too many holes to plug to try and contain me into a small area without crazy numbers. Even then, blending is a effective technique.

Turn your fan off.

Turn your fan off.
No kidding.

It still surprises me how nearly every gun owner on the internet spends ridiculous amounts of time daydreaming about these scenarios...

Say what you want. In light of the current situations in the country, I see it as a valid discussion. While I do agree that pipe dreams run rampant, I think that honest tactical discussions need to be taking place.

This time around, it's not just the fringe wackos, it's everybody. The whole country is looking towards D.C. and yelling "WTF!?!??!?".

for now there has to be a legal reason first. far to many people will roll over to authority to ease the situation. If more would stand up and say "show me the warrant" I think this could be nipped in the bud.
The pen is still mightier than the sword.

This is great and all.... but what the fawk are you gonna do when helocopters start coming and everyone is watching you through thermal imaging? The technology we've allowed our government to develope and use to protect us can also be used against us. And Im pretty damn sure theres not a single person on this board that can afford ANY of that shit to use AGAINST them.

Id imagine your best option is to hightail it away from the superior force unless you know for a fact they dont have technology that there is no way you can escape if they employ it. So ya.... city cops and the like.... you could fight and probably lay waste to them with proper planning and tactics. Shit.... back in the 1960s you could hide from helocopters, tanks and artilery... seemed like the common thought back then was carpet bomb the entire freakin area to get your one of two bad guys... something youd hope would never be choosen by our government because of the collateral damage to sheeple and infrastructure. But in 2009.... they can track you for hours and hours.... watch you fuck your girlfriend through a satelite.... then as soon as they see you picl up a rifle.... send a small missle up your ass and destroy an area no bigger than your average house.





wrong, FLIR can be defeated easily,

for now there has to be a legal reason first. far to many people will roll over to authority to ease the situation. If more would stand up and say "show me the warrant" I think this could be nipped in the bud.
The pen is still mightier than the sword.


Legal reasons are all over. The politicians have turned against the will of the people.

Legal reasons are all over. The politicians have turned against the will of the people.

so your assuming the USCon has been shredded and we live under a dictatorship? I can't see that happening. In a Katrina situation there has to be a warrant.

I tend to agree with Fubar and TNToy. I think it will go like this:

1. legislation. We're going to see the AWB again, and it's going to make the last one look totally reasonable, but it's not coming anytime soon. The bad is that dems took a lot of seats, the good is that many of them represent gun friendly states, re-election is the goal, so we have two years at least.

2. More Waco's. Once AWB comes along, you will see more shit like Waco. They will also go after FFL's at random and with little more than a BS warrant.

3. Attack on the source. Concurrently with above, they will pull shit like having Eric Holder designate Ammo as "hazardous material" and BATF will instigate case and bullet stamping, all of which designed to make it expensive and or impossible to buy/transport. Gun manufactureres will have rediculous and overbearing mandates for BS safety add ons, agian, making the guns useless and expensive. They will also tax the fuck out of everything.

So lets get through all that before we all start watching Rambo First Blood as an action plan. :rolleyes:

Turn your fan off.

No kidding.

It still surprises me how nearly every gun owner on the internet spends ridiculous amounts of time daydreaming about these scenarios...

You two Re-Re's missed the whole point of the post. It wasn't about black helicopters it was about the reality of the situation and me calling BS on two older, sloppy, fat ass, red neck dudes saying I got 1000's of rounds of ammo and a tactical swiss army knifed SBR in my house, so nobody is gonna take my guns. :shaking:

Step off the soap box please.

You two Re-Re's missed the whole point of the post. It wasn't about black helicopters...
No. It was about how you are all planning to sneak around the town like Mel freaking Gibson in The Patriot, and kill all the ordinary cops who are stuck with the task of coming to take your guns.

Much more realistic.

No. It was about how you are all planning to sneak around the town like Mel freaking Gibson in The Patriot, and kill all the ordinary cops who are stuck with the task of coming to take your guns.

Much more realistic.

http://l.yimg.com/img.movies.yahoo.com/ymv/us/img/hv/photo/movie_pix/columbia_pictures/the_patriot/mel_gibson/patriot5.jpg

& CRAZY MEL, LOL

http://photos.upi.com/topics-Mel_Gibson/829388b1a28f77357414f0c79843cc20/Mel_Gibson_1.jpg
& JESUS MEL

http://www.scumdoctor.com/images/Mel-Gibson-Mental-Illness.jpg

Who is going to raise your children, take care of your parents, and fuck your girlfriends/wives when your fantasy of shooting it out with the goverment plays out to its inevitable conclusion?

Who is going to raise your children, take care of your parents, and fuck your girlfriends/wives when your fantasy of shooting it out with the goverment plays out to its inevitable conclusion?

the goverment

Who is going to raise your children, take care of your parents, and fuck your girlfriends/wives when your fantasy of shooting it out with the goverment plays out to its inevitable conclusion?

You're right. We should all just give up. :shaking:

I wonder if the folks who fought in the American Revolution shared your concerns?

The more I think about this the less likely a scenerio I see.

Sure a local .gov could try. But that's already been slapped down by the courts. Nationaly, it'll never happen. If Japan knew they were able to take the .mil in WWII. But couldn't take the populus. I'm sure the current .gov is well aware of the mutually assured destruction potential.

Who is going to raise your children, take care of your parents, and fuck your girlfriends/wives when your fantasy of shooting it out with the goverment plays out to its inevitable conclusion?

gay argument. Shit, 50% of the time someone else ends up doing it anyways

why not make a statement before it happens :D

No. It was about how you are all planning to sneak around the town like Mel freaking Gibson in The Patriot, and kill all the ordinary cops who are stuck with the task of coming to take your guns.

Much more realistic.


If they come for my guns, willing or unwilling, they will get the same response. I'd rather not fight them, but if they'll do it "no matter what" because it's their job, then I will fight them "no matter what" because it's necessary.

We've both got families, but I care more for my family than the cops' families. Maybe a few (none, hopefully) will have to die before they give up confiscation efforts.

Who is going to raise your children, take care of your parents, and fuck your girlfriends/wives when your fantasy of shooting it out with the goverment plays out to its inevitable conclusion?

Only a suicidal idiot would get into a direct confrontation with superior forces. Recon and ambush is the name of the game. You don't shoot at them when they are in full tactical gear at your front door. You shoot them as they walk out to their cars in the morning, or when they are getting gas, or pushing a cart full of groceries.

No kidding.

It still surprises me how nearly every gun owner on the internet spends ridiculous amounts of time daydreaming about these scenarios...

having a target on your chest makes you wonder about what your options are.

it's no different than a drug dealer thinking about what might occur when they come after him

so your assuming the USCon has been shredded and we live under a dictatorship? I can't see that happening. In a Katrina situation there has to be a warrant.

they took guns with no warrant............fact.

Well good luck to all you Moulon Luge guys if they come.

Well good luck to all you Moulon Luge guys if they come.

and good luck to the mofos coming











they are going to need it

Well I am not sold on the fact that anyone is coming to take anything,

How ever in the spirit of the start of this thread I see it like this, If you run to the hills you can get picked up fast and easy and even if you put up a hell of a fight they will send in Spec Op's. So you stay in town near as many of the gen population and looking just like them and conduct your Op's and stash your gear and blend back in.

Recon and plan out your Op's but be ready for a hasty ambush


Now if you and a few friends have prior training you will be able to teach and train others and you should not run more than a team of 6 as it gets too hard to blend in and a few 2 man teams would be better and maybe a A team (that would be 12 people) gaurding a base if you are out in the sticks and have picked up that many people.

Guerilla warfare is the name of the game not lets go toe to toe :D Look at Bin Laden he is doing what he was trained to do by us and he's still sucking air (I wish he was not but he is)



God be with us all as non of us want any thing like this to play out.

they took guns with no warrant............fact.

and they got their pee-pee smacked. setting precedent for future actions

I agree that it will look more like the french resistance than the storming of the beaches at normandy....

I don't want anything like this to happen, I just think that we're being herded towards it.

and they got their pee-pee smacked. setting precedent for future actions

There was some verbal scolding and some fingerpointing, but most folks didn't get their guns back. They were "lost in all the confusion". The few that were stored in secure area's were only returned to those that could prove ownership. It's probably a good idea to have pictures and serial numbers of all your guns kept with someone you trust in a different state.

Well I am not sold on the fact that anyone is coming to take anything,

How ever in the spirit of the start of this thread I see it like this, If you run to the hills you can get picked up fast and easy and even if you put up a hell of a fight they will send in Spec Op's. So you stay in town near as many of the gen population and looking just like them and conduct your Op's and stash your gear and blend back in.

Recon and plan out your Op's but be ready for a hasty ambush


Now if you and a few friends have prior training you will be able to teach and train others and you should not run more than a team of 6 as it gets too hard to blend in and a few 2 man teams would be better and maybe a A team (that would be 12 people) gaurding a base if you are out in the sticks and have picked up that many people.

Guerilla warfare is the name of the game not lets go toe to toe :D Look at Bin Laden he is doing what he was trained to do by us and he's still sucking air (I wish he was not but he is)



God be with us all as non of us want any thing like this to play out.


ya in every town in the us they have the resources to send out multi teams to get each guy...........:lmao:they couldn't do shit during katrina to help anyone:shaking:
and they got their pee-pee smacked. setting precedent for future actions

There was some verbal scolding and some fingerpointing, but most folks didn't get their guns back. They were "lost in all the confusion". The few that were stored in secure area's were only returned to those that could prove ownership. It's probably a good idea to have pictures and serial numbers of all your guns kept with someone you trust in a different state.


they refused to give recepts for these guns too, they got no pee pee slapping at all:shaking:

ya in every town in the us they have the resources to send out multi teams to get each guy...........:lmao:they couldn't do shit during katrina to help anyone:shaking:


Yes you are right there is not the #'s of Spec Op's to patrol all towns but they do have a lot of non Spec Op's guys that have been doing CQB and other anti-terrorist training such as A.W.G. so they could deploy a large number all over or to the hot spots as needed.

Now that does not mean they could/would win the day it just means know what and how they train in so you know how to prevail. Or plan for the worst case scenario so you are ready don't just think it will be the lame national guard guys and LEO's that would be easy compared to more advanced trained soldiers.

:confused: what am I missing?


State "Emergency Powers" vs. The Right to Arms


After Hurricane Katrina, many New Orleans residents legally armed themselves to protect their lives and property from civil disorder. With no way to call for help, and police unable to respond, honest citizens were able to defend themselves and their neighbors against looters, arsonists and other criminals.1

However, just when these people needed guns the most, New Orleans's Police Superintendent ordered the confiscation of firearms, allegedly under a state emergency powers law. "No one will be able to be armed," he said. "Guns will be taken. Only law enforcement will be allowed to have guns."2 (Fortunately, an NRA lawsuit brought an end to the seizures—along with a far-fetched denial that confiscation had ever been ordered. Following this, Judge Carl J. Barbier, presiding over the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Louisiana, held New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin and Police Chief Warren Riley in contempt for “failure to provide initial disclosures and to compel answers to discovery” during NRA’s injunction against the City for their illegal gun confiscations.)

Of course, no one condones the mindless violence of those who would loot a helpless city, or shoot at rescue workers. But one reason for the citizens to retain a legal right to arms, is precisely because the government has no legal duty to protect them.3 Legislative bodies can, and should, act to protect the self-defense rights of citizens at the times when those rights are most important.

Unfortunately, many states have "emergency powers" laws that give the government permission to suspend or limit gun sales, and to prohibit or restrict citizens from transporting or carrying firearms. In some states, authorities are authorized to seize guns outright from citizens who've committed no crime--and who would then be defenseless against disorder.

The movement to change these laws is gaining speed. Just two months after Hurricane Katrina, the Louisiana legislature--with only one dissenting vote--adopted a resolution declaring "the policy of the state of Louisiana to protect and uphold the citizens' right to keep and bear arms in their residences, businesses, and means of transport, and on their persons," condemning the seizure of firearms from New Orleans citizens, and announcing it planned to amend Louisiana's emergency powers law "to rectify the denial of these rights."4 Since then, 21 additional states have joined Louisiana by passing laws to protect the rights of law-abiding gun owners by prohibiting the confiscation of firearms during a time of emergency.

Congress and President Bush also saw the need to act to protect gun owners’ rights during emergencies. H.R. 5013, the “Disaster Recovery Personal Protection Act,” was introduced in the House by Congressman Bobby Jindal (LA - 1) and passed the House on July 25, 2006 with a broad bi-partisan margin of 322-99. Senator David Vitter (R-La) introduced the Senate version of the bill and added it as an Amendment to Homeland Security Appropriations, which passed the United States Senate by 84-16, the largest margin of victory for a NRA-backed measure. On October 9, 2006, President George W. Bush signed this legislation into law.

In the past, America has balanced emergency needs with respect for constitutional rights. Months before Pearl Harbor, the U.S. Congress passed the Property Requisition Act of 1941, which allowed the President, as a last resort, to seize needed war materials "upon the payment of fair and just compensation."5 The Congress, concerned about the prospect of gun confiscation, included language to prohibit registration or seizure of privately owned firearms. America and its allies went on to win the greatest armed conflict in history. Today, Congress and the state legislatures should follow that lead.

http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?ID=191

Yes you are right there is not the #'s of Spec Op's to patrol all towns but they do have a lot of non Spec Op's guys that have been doing CQB and other anti-terrorist training such as A.W.G. so they could deploy a large number all over or to the hot spots as needed.

Now that does not mean they could/would win the day it just means know what and how they train in so you know how to prevail. Or plan for the worst case scenario so you are ready don't just think it will be the lame national guard guys and LEO's that would be easy compared to more advanced trained soldiers.

well I'm no GI JOE, no training at all, can't shoot to well either:D
don't shoot enough, but I'm not giving up my rights.....just as those in 1775 did not. they came after the gun powder places in 1775 because they did not have ammo in those days, flint locks, all guners were reloaders:)

The masses for the most part are not willing to die for their guns - but it won't be the masses that are causing the problems. For the most part, the LEO and military will have no part in this - they all take an oath to uphold and protect the constitution to all threats foreign and domestic. Every single one of my police or military buddies will be on OUR side when *they* (Whoever the government suckers into doing it - NATO maybe?) come knockin on the door. There are groups of well armed and well organized folks that are willing to die for their gun rights.

The masses for the most part are not willing to die for their guns - but it won't be the masses that are causing the problems. For the most part, the LEO and military will have no part in this - they all take an oath to uphold and protect the constitution to all threats foreign and domestic. Every single one of my police or military buddies will be on OUR side when *they* (Whoever the government suckers into doing it - NATO maybe?) come knockin on the door. There are groups of well armed and well organized folks that are willing to die for their gun rights.



Most of the guys I know are in the same boat as your friends, but not all have a brain of thier own :shaking:

...but I'm not giving up my rights.....:)

Don't you live in california? You've already given up some that I have. :flipoff2:

Don't you live in california? You've already given up some that I have. :flipoff2:


Fubar gots a point :( thats one reason why I moved out of Cali

As has been mentioned, when "they" come-a-calling, one would be a pure fool for going toe to toe with an armed squad. Throw it all in to whack some dumb cop or ARNG PFC? Go for it, Audie, I'll be watching for your re-enactment of Custer's Last Stand on the (state-filtered) news. Fight smart: Give them a little of what they seek, (like that old single barrel 20ga & cheap-ass .22 Jennings... and a half-empty box of shells) play the model citizen/sheeple. etc... then while their backs are turned & are occupied elsewhere, fuck them in the ass. Dry & hard.

Most folks don't have the mindset to fully own a situation... Most "normal folks" are wired to seek order out of chaos, comfy in their beds at night knowing them and their kiddies are safe. This is probably a good thing too. (not good for them, but...)

There are those who are wired opposite: They see order and seek to create chaos. Panic, mayhem, disorder, and piles of bodies. This is the mindset that will defeat any foe or die trying. Be clear though that it's a mindset that can't play by "nice rules" You have to be fucking hard, and more than a little whacko. Murder, rape, torture, subversion, sabotage, etc... Basically becoming an angry wild animal crossed with a serial killer. (In the words of one of my mentors -a career SF SGM- become "king of the wild fucking frontier") If you can't harden up for that, do us a favor, stay off the playing field, and keep score or something. Just don't be in the way when things go berzerk.

The wisest thing for the untrained (but motivated) to do is, instead of stashing back eleventy-billion guns and a truck-load of ammo, is to learn yourself some "wild animal" skills. Read up on stuff, lots of open-source junk from JFKSWC is a good start, as is the Ranger handbook, FMs on explosives and demo, improvised shit, etc... Also study tactics, Sun Tzu, Soviets defending their homeland in WWII, VC, Muj in a-stan etc. Once one is smart in the head, one can play that off for most anything the enemy is carrying or driving. The most dangerous weapon is the mind of a warrior.

But most folks havent got a trace of wild animal in them (basically just targets, pop-up, non-electric) so they can be content with amassing their armories of Tacticool semi-auto toys (remote, undiscovered caches... for which we thank you for in advance) and trading war stories and oplans on the internet.

Be very afraid of the gray men...