Anyone run them......like ....dis like.

I have been thinking about getting them but they are kind of costly (for me).

It is either that or a marlin crawler but I think that the marlin will be more $$$$$

All I know is that you have to gring out the inside of the case itself in I think two places. One place it pretty close to where it bolts to the mounts. I would think this would make the case weaker. I think Calmini has 5.89 to 1 gears and no grinding on the install. I have seen several busted cases in zuks with 4.16 to 1 gears and I would want to keep everything strong as possible.

I've got the 6:1's and have several runs on them. The case grinding is pretty minor. IMHO, if removing that material results in a failure, you would have broken it anyway. The area you grind is a ways away from the mounts so stresses are pretty well distrubuted through the whole case. That being said, there is only 3% difference between the 5.89's and the 6.1's. Pretty hard to notice that. I think the two are a wash. If the case grinding worries you, buy the 5.89's and tell 'em you have the 6:1's :D

It's not the case grinding that worrys me it's the $$$$$ I am going to spend..ha ha ha ha ha:D

Ive been running mine for almost a year now.....A very hard year on them!

I love them!!!!

Originally posted by RudeZuk
Ive been running mine for almost a year now.....A very hard year on them!

I love them!!!!
Me too. And I spoke with Dave at AAPA the other day and asked him if he or Rob have had any 6.1's break. The only set that broke was apparantly a result of a too-long driveshaft over-compressing and busting open the t-case, getting nice chunks of metal into the gears. Rob warranteed them, even though the gears weren't at fault for the breakage.

You do have to do a slight amount of clearancing for the gears.... and I must say I've broken my share of tcases thru the years.

The point of weakness that causes case failure has nothing to do with the area of the clearancing though. The clearancing is done right by the seam of the two main halves. When a tcase breaks, it is pretty much always at the elevated 4-hole mounting point when the case bolts to the mounting arm. There are several wraparound style tcase mounting arms on the market now that eliminate this possibility.

Combine one of those tcase arms with the 6:1 gears and you should never have any type of case failure problem.

There are three other differences with the 5.8 gears mentioned.

1. The alloy steel used in fabricating the 6:1 is of a higher grade and stronger.
2. Beyond the minor low range difference, there is quite a bit more difference in high range. The 6:1 was designed to allow 33" tires to be used on stock axle gears. With larger tires, you have more more highway 'power' than the 5.8 gears.
3. The last and perhaps greatest difference is the strength of the tooth pattern. The 6:1 gears have a much larger tooth which creates more metal to metal contact and a stronger tooth surface than the 5.8 gears. At any one point you really have 1 tooth that is carrying the load of the torque. Take a look at the 6"1 gears and you'll see a much stronger tooth pattern than in the 5.8, 4.89, or 4.16 gears for that matter.

Any questions on them, please feel free to drop us a line. To date I've installed close to 50 gearsets. I can do the clearancing in my sleep now.

I replaced my GRSII Petro Works case with Robbs gear set in another case.

Im running stock axles with 33 MTRs.

They have truely impressed me.

The high range is 4% lower than the GRSII gears and the low range is awsome!


Im getting ready to build another Zuk soon. Bought me a set of Toy axles the other day and will be using either 4.10s or 4.88s with high pinions and front and rear with electric lockers.


The 6 to 1 s will be in this rig while running 35"or 37" MTRs.

For the money, Robbs gears are cheap! It only takes a few pennies more IMO to go first class.

The grinding is no big deal. Ive done 3 now. One for me and 2 for friends. All working great!

Id say go for it!

Moose
:D

I'm using the RockHopper 6:1 gears from Roadless Gear in my zuk and I love them. I did SOTR with stock gears in the axles and no lockers. I think they did great. High range is reduced like 18% and low range is reduced 170% over stock and NO CASE GRINDING NEEDED.


Kenny Cochrane

Originally posted by Rocky Road
You do have to do a slight amount of clearancing for the gears.... and I must say I've broken my share of tcases thru the years.

The point of weakness that causes case failure has nothing to do with the area of the clearancing though. The clearancing is done right by the seam of the two main halves. When a tcase breaks, it is pretty much always at the elevated 4-hole mounting point when the case bolts to the mounting arm. There are several wraparound style tcase mounting arms on the market now that eliminate this possibility.

Combine one of those tcase arms with the 6:1 gears and you should never have any type of case failure problem.

There are three other differences with the 5.8 gears mentioned.

1. The alloy steel used in fabricating the 6:1 is of a higher grade and stronger.
2. Beyond the minor low range difference, there is quite a bit more difference in high range. The 6:1 was designed to allow 33" tires to be used on stock axle gears. With larger tires, you have more more highway 'power' than the 5.8 gears.
3. The last and perhaps greatest difference is the strength of the tooth pattern. The 6:1 gears have a much larger tooth which creates more metal to metal contact and a stronger tooth surface than the 5.8 gears. At any one point you really have 1 tooth that is carrying the load of the torque. Take a look at the 6"1 gears and you'll see a much stronger tooth pattern than in the 5.8, 4.89, or 4.16 gears for that matter.

Any questions on them, please feel free to drop us a line. To date I've installed close to 50 gearsets. I can do the clearancing in my sleep now.

Glenn,

did Rob tell you the new gears will be all billet?
even though a core wouldn't be required if they are....I would want the counter gears for 4.16's......

Originally posted by Rocky Road
To date I've installed close to 50 gearsets. I can do the clearancing in my sleep now.

Does that mean there wouldnt be a labor chrge I mean if your sleepin and all???:D

rob 6:1's are lower than roadless gear :flipoff2:

Kenny, Glad your happy with our gears. Send me some details and we'll get some Rockhopper stickers over to you.
The Rockhoppers work out at 6.129, I believe thats the lowest available.
Theres definetely NO grinding needed in the case. Always been billet gears.

Originally posted by Rockhopper
The Rockhoppers work out at 6.129, I believe thats the lowest available.
Theres definetely NO grinding needed in the case. Always been billet gears.

the low range on both might be the same....it's the high range that is lower on Rob's gears...that is why the case needs modified.

Billet or not..they are all working great...either Yours or ours...huh?

Originally posted by nozuk
rob 6:1's are lower than roadless gear :flipoff2:
Your point :confused:

the low range on both might be the same....it's the high range that is lower on Rob's gears...that is why the case needs modified.

aaahh, no. The Rockhopper low range is 6.129, not 6.100 . As for high range the difference is that we change four gears, not three. so we could (if we wanted ) go a fair bit lower in high and still not have to grind the case.

Wich one has more surface area contact ? How about some specs . Billet........... so what, give us some rockwell hardness specs.

Originally posted by Titanium
Wich one has more surface area contact ? How about some specs . Billet........... so what, give us some rockwell hardness specs.

I couldn't compare them....because I haven't seen a set of the other gears.....but

one set of SUMO gears were damaged when an incorrect made front driveshaft bottomed out and caused the t-case to be shoved back enough to lock up the short drive shaft, and casue it to bust the front of the case....where that caused the input shaft to work it's way free and knacker the teeth on the gears.....

they held up quit well I might piont out......in any event Rob says he will replace them...."even though it was no fault of his work, nor the gear maker's work or otherwise....."

to me that goes a long way in standing behind his product.

aaahh, no. The Rockhopper low range is 6.129, not 6.100 . As for high range the difference is that we change four gears, not three. so we could (if we wanted ) go a fair bit lower in high and still not have to grind the case.

who cares who's gears are .00000001% lower? :D they're all so close i'd be surprised if you could tell the difference.

Originally posted by Arizona Zuk


I couldn't compare them....because I haven't seen a set of the other gears.....but


He stands behind his product, great. But i want specs and you still didnt answer the question. Im not askin you to compare, i'll compare them myself, i need facts, specs, rockwell hardness. If i wanted an opinion i'd talk to my ole lady. Give me specs cuz thats where the truth will come out as to who has what. If im gonna buy a set of these gears i want specs. These things are big bucks and i expect a supplier to know his product. After all, this is Pirates of the Rubicon, isnt it ? Someone has these answers cuz someone has to build them. Shit or get off the pot , both of ya's. Like they say "gotta have thick skin" :flipoff2:

What is the high range reduction on the two 6:1 versions and the 5.8's.

I searched and couldnt find it....no I really did...OK I'm just lazy. :flipoff2:

Roadless Gear The Series III gears have 6.129:1 gears installed and will provide you with a whopping 170% reduction in gearing in low range (19% in high range). Calmini Our kit contains 4 completely new gears machined from billet material! Manufactured to exceed factory tolerances from high quality SAE 8620 alloy. Now, you can re-gear your Samurai drive train completely through the transfer case. A TRUE 18.2% Hi-Range reduction will correct highway gearing for up to 32” tires. A whopping 156% reduction in low range

Thanks RockRat..here is what I found on the gears from Rob from The AAPA site:

SUMO™ 6.1
24% gear reduction in high-range (1.75:1)
170% gear reduction in low-range!!! (6.09:1)

Originally posted by Titanium


He stands behind his product, great. But i want specs and you still didnt answer the question. Im not askin you to compare, i'll compare them myself, i need facts, specs, rockwell hardness. If i wanted an opinion i'd talk to my ole lady. Give me specs cuz thats where the truth will come out as to who has what. If im gonna buy a set of these gears i want specs. These things are big bucks and i expect a supplier to know his product. After all, this is Pirates of the Rubicon, isnt it ? Someone has these answers cuz someone has to build them. Shit or get off the pot , both of ya's. Like they say "gotta have thick skin" :flipoff2:

you think too much....:flipoff2:

go to ORC and read Geoff Beasley's review.....if there isn't enough information in that.....nothing anyone says can help you....

you think too much....


no :jeep3:

there is allready so much info out there

Originally posted by Shrock
Thanks RockRat..here is what I found on the gears from Rob from The AAPA site:

SUMO™ 6.1
24% gear reduction in high-range (1.75:1)
170% gear reduction in low-range!!! (6.09:1)

Thanks...I knew it was around here somewhere....now if only I can find my Beer:D

Originally posted by Arizona Zuk


you think too much....:flipoff2:

go to ORC and read Geoff Beasley's review.....if there isn't enough information in that.....nothing anyone says can help you....

All i want is facts. So far, no one has supplied them. :flipoff2:

Well I think youve got all the reduction facts and camini s are 8620 alloy billet so if you can come up with the material on the others out there and get final face pattern that is which ones have more contact area You should be all set. AND thats a fact JACk:D

Thanx RockRat, we definitely put an end to the pissin contest :flipoff2: Competitors shouldnt play games like this, we're all in the same boat and theres enough wheelers around for everyone to make a buck. No, i dont biuld t-cases but ive built alot of shit and now i just do my own crap, no hassle anymore, someone asks and i point them elsewhere, fawk it. :D

Without putting too many noses out of joint, I'll try and explain a few things about gears and gearcutting.
Firstly please understand that developing a new gear set is a big deal. To do it right your looking at around $20,000 US. Cutters, software, gear modules test sets, advertising, insurance and machine time ain't free either. Obviously we want to protect our investment. Everyday we get calls and emails from guys who want to know the exact steel, the exact module and cutters used. We've even had one clown wonder into a shop that does some outsourced machining on test sets with a set of gears and asked if they could copy them! Most of the money goes in the design stage...the exact details your asking for.
Secondly, your not comparing apples with apples...its the old grade 5 verses grade 8 bolt story. Theres still guys out there who replace grade 5's with grade 9's because they figure the numbers higher so the bolts stronger. They're different, they're made for different applications, with different properties. Same goes with steels. We use a very high grade steel, so do the sumo gears trying to compare them is pointless except if your a materials engineer .
Thirdly, gears are extremely complicated things, take a single gear into a engineering shop for measuring and they'll give you a
$600 bill and several pages of measurements. A toothcount don't mean squat. You'd be better off looking ( if anyone would give it to you) for generated preasure angles, Chordal tooth thickness, circular pitch and the like. Plugging it into gearcad and comparing them. ( gearcad is a lightweight gear program and costs several thou)

What I can tell you though, Is that we've been doing this for 10 years now. No billet gear set we've made has ever failed. We make gearsets for patrols and cruisers that regulary see 400 to 500 BHP, 44's and abusive driving. We're all Suzuki freaks and run these in our own cars. Hardly something we'd be doing if we didn't have complete faith in them. We empoly a full time mechanical engineer, and use a specialist for materials.
Over here vehicles have to do the hard miles, If you front up to an event on a trailer you'll get laughed out of town. So we certaily have the runs on the board.
Hope this helps.
Liam.

:smokin:

Originally posted by Rockhopper
Without putting too many noses out of joint, I'll try and explain a few things about gears and gearcutting.
Firstly please understand that developing a new gear set is a big deal. To do it right your looking at around $20,000 US. Cutters, software, gear modules test sets, advertising, insurance and machine time ain't free either. Obviously we want to protect our investment. Everyday we get calls and emails from guys who want to know the exact steel, the exact module and cutters used. We've even had one clown wonder into a shop that does some outsourced machining on test sets with a set of gears and asked if they could copy them! Most of the money goes in the design stage...the exact details your asking for.
Secondly, your not comparing apples with apples...its the old grade 5 verses grade 8 bolt story. Theres still guys out there who replace grade 5's with grade 9's because they figure the numbers higher so the bolts stronger. They're different, they're made for different applications, with different properties. Same goes with steels. We use a very high grade steel, so do the sumo gears trying to compare them is pointless except if your a materials engineer .
Thirdly, gears are extremely complicated things, take a single gear into a engineering shop for measuring and they'll give you a
$600 bill and several pages of measurements. A toothcount don't mean squat. You'd be better off looking ( if anyone would give it to you) for generated preasure angles, Chordal tooth thickness, circular pitch and the like. Plugging it into gearcad and comparing them. ( gearcad is a lightweight gear program and costs several thou)

What I can tell you though, Is that we've been doing this for 10 years now. No billet gear set we've made has ever failed. We make gearsets for patrols and cruisers that regulary see 400 to 500 BHP, 44's and abusive driving. We're all Suzuki freaks and run these in our own cars. Hardly something we'd be doing if we didn't have complete faith in them. We empoly a full time mechanical engineer, and use a specialist for materials.
Over here vehicles have to do the hard miles, If you front up to an event on a trailer you'll get laughed out of town. So we certaily have the runs on the board.
Hope this helps.
Liam.

ya...what he said!

all joking aside.....I can't understand why so much is being made about how these gears are made......I never seen so many questions asked on any other product(s)......not just gears.

Both Liam's "Rock Hopper Gears and Robert's "Sumo" gears (also sold as RRO's "Mega Crawler" have been on the market for over a year now, without failure caused from the manufacture.......that is a way better track record than any other gear reduction system being sold for Suzuki....so far....isn't it?

Great reply Liam, I curtsey to you:D

Originally posted by Arizona Zuk


ya...what he said!

all joking aside.....I can't understand why so much is being made about how these gears are made......

Great reply Liam, I curtsey to you:D

U get questions when u say "i have this" and the competitor says " well i have this" with no facts. Read the whole thread and you'll see what i mean, glad to see we can all get along :bounce2:

these oughta get me goin more slower.....all this talk and i had to just get some for myself.....:flipoff2:
http://filebox.vt.edu/users/cbradfor/gears.jpg

Of course you'll be scrubbing that case down properly wont you.....

Originally posted by Shrock
Thanks RockRat..here is what I found on the gears from Rob from The AAPA site:

SUMO™ 6.1
24% gear reduction in high-range (1.75:1)
170% gear reduction in low-range!!! (6.09:1) :evil: buy em and sell Joe your 4:1 case :evil:

Ya know, I've got a 6:1 laying out in my garage right now. (thanks Glenn) Been there about a week and a half. Too bad I'm 5000 fawking miles away and can't do anything about it. Can't wait to get that thing in and give it a spin!!! At the rate I'm going, Bill4rest will be out on the trails before I am!! :D ;)

scrub......HA......i'll be lucky if half the bolts get put back in the case.....i've got ants in my pants about gettin this thing back on the trail.......:D

the gears do look awesome.....although they could have used a little more creative packaging.....:flipoff2: