I've never seen one on a cruiser yet. I think it may be a good idea : it'd make the bending work easier (I don't have access to a bender), would save room for the feet to clear the clutch pedal, and would also protect the windshield frame and glass, so why not ? It would tie to the font body monts through the beefy rockers, or whatever lenghtened body stenghtening mount rail (you know what I mean...), then would run around in front of the windshied, with an horizontal tube between the windshield and hood... Maybe some tube fenders & rad. hoop could connect to this later ? What do you think ?

Denis

could make that stupind paintshop work again eventually...

http://toy4x4.free.fr/cage.jpg

The first downside I see is the inability to lay down the windshield. Also, with the legs tying in so far out from the frame, you have lost some structural strength due to leverage. I am also assuming that you never have any intentions on using a hardtop.
I know there are some cages out there that still give you room around the clutch pedal.Check out Nolen's cage. He may no longer have a clutch pedal, but when he did there was plenty of room for the feet.

I think it would look good, but I'm curious how you would run a soft top around that w/out any leaks? My experience with soft tops and going around tubing is that it WILL leak there, and in many cases, quite profusely.

But then, a raincoat is less expensive than a soft top:D

Your talking about a cage like D-90s right? Sounds like a good idea if all you would ever want to run is a bikini top.
Heres a picture on my cage, plenty of room for the clutch...

Joseph A.

Ok, here's the plan (If I do it that way... I know an inside hoop is doable, but it's alredy been done, and I know how I would do it if I choose to. )

Rusty : windhield lay-down : that will probably be true, sice I want to keep the tube behind the hood, and don't want the front hoop th be too wide or high anyway... but then again, I don't need to lay down the hood that often, do I ? I've already tested the coolness factor or driving with the hood layed down, and it was nice, but I wouldn't drive it that way days long, especially when it's cold, and if there are a lot of tree branchs on the way.
I don't relly need to fold it down to protect it in case of an accident with a big branch, a rock or a rollover, since the hoop will be there first...

-legs far from the frame : yes that's an issue, but I think I could build it strong enough. I'd make the legs as close to the body as possible, and the would tie to a BIG c-channel iron tied to the original body mounts legs of the frame. In fact the c-channels would be part of the body half-crossemebers on both sides of the bellhousing, do you see what I mean ?

-soft-top. I thought I could tie it to the windshield frameas usual, and then go under the main hoops, which would not be much different than the usual setups, and would not require to make a holed-coat to come through the bracing and head tubes...

-hard-top... I thought I could use a similar desigh to that on the Landrovers (cruiser god forgive me...) if I use the hard-top... The points where the horizontal tubes coming back from the front hoop connect to the main hoop could be connected with big bolted plates, between which the hardtop could be sandwiched if installed...

Do you think that could work ? Ever seen similar setups ?

Thanks,

Just keep in mind on hard rolls the front cages tend to “rack” on you anyway. (I “racked’ one myself, in a street roll and the other I saw off Double Wammy in Moab this year) In this case you may still lose the windshield frame, even with the front hoop. I would stick with an internal cage and just pull the windshield off for hard wheeling. I nice piece of plexi-glass mounted to the front hoop works great for the wind. For all the added hassle of constructing a top that works with an external cage, pulling the windshield a few times a year seams minor. However if I was to do an external cadge I would take the legs through the front cowling, then down to the floor/frame. Then just get crazy with the tubing and only run bikini top and soft doors.

We have a guy here in the rainy NW that runs only a bikini top, soft doors and a rear soft panel with a small window in it, mounted to the inside of the main roll bar. (Oh warm jackets and a spare change of dry closes are in always in a dry bag in the back!)

1st... What is the neccessary lifting height to pull the hard top? A couple of inches? Your exo cage must run slightly taller and wider to be able to pull the top from beneath it.
2nd.... I like the idea of running the front tube back into the cowl towards the bottom. This allows what would be "typical" frame tie-in. Maybe the same aproach could be used to route the crossbar through the cowl between the dash and the firewall. ofcourse anything behind the dash then comes into play. A good thing to think about.
3rd... After pondering the idea for a few hours a couple of months ago, center "main" hoop and rear hoop tie-ins are also difficult areas to be tackled.

Alot of thought and possibly mock ups would need to take place prior to fabrication. I think you've got a great idea. Execution is key here though. I've seen alot of great ideas that weren't to terribly thought out go horribly wrong. Keep the idea rolling around in the back of your mind, don't just give up on it. Let us know if there is something else you think of.

how 'bout something like this. This is Andy Widner (from All Pro Offroad) and his FJ40. His cage used to be fulley external but from this picture it's obviously not anymore but the front hoop is just like you're saying. Leave enough room that you can fold down your windshield.

http://www.allprooffroad.com/xtoys/johnsonvalley/matterhorn/7978.jpg (http://)

Well, I don't really want to go exo over the whole length of the truck, basically just the front hoop would be exo...

As for going through the cowling, I'm not sure I really like the idea. I'm gonna look at this issue and see what can be done.
Anyway the design will be beefy, since it's a safety equipment more than anything else... but still I don't really want to build something ugly either...well, I'll see if I can find time to think about it tomorrow... I'm not really in a hurry anyway, I don't think I will be able to wheel until... heaven knows when :rolleyes:
The fact is I'm not really sure I can live without the hardtop...

Adam,

Thanks for the info,

Do you know if/where we can have some more pics and info on his cage ? Thanks,

Here are the pics anyway...
What do you guys think of it ?
I 'm not sure this cage would work well in case of a severe rollover when I just see it like that... or is that just me ?

http://www.allprooffroad.com/xtoys/johnsonvalley/matterhorn/7944.jpg

http://www.allprooffroad.com/xtoys/johnsonvalley/matterhorn/7979.jpg

http://www.allprooffroad.com/xtoys/johnsonvalley/matterhorn/7978.jpg

Uh that cage has suffered more than a couple rollovers and seems no worse for wear. FYI Andy is the main fabricator at All Pro and built Jon Bundrant's rock truggy and the cage stuff on John's current competition truck as well as helped Chris Geiger with his tubed minitruck creation. Andy knows what he's doing. I think a design like this will hold up and if you're worried about it, add a few more gussets or diagonals and call it good.

Adam,
Thanks a lot for the info.

Here is the pic. from BMAN btw :
http://toy4x4.free.fr/kylecruiser2exo.jpg

personally I would NEVER do an external cage over a hardtop. If you have an external cage, you better be wheeling hard enough to make an exo-cage worthwhile. A hardtop adds a LOT of weight up high that really hurts your COG and adding an exo-cage over that is just plain stupid IMO. I think you'll spend a lot of time on your side if you go that route. If you need a top, build it to fit over a soft top. At least you won't have the weight of a hardtop to deal with in off-camber situations.

OK looking at my cheesey design. Gotta scratch the "kneebar" behind the dash. Way too much crap back there. I agree Adam. exo's are for extreme applications. But you gotta admit they're cool though. Not always practical, but deffinately cool.:flipoff2:

Not sure I agree with you. I don't think exo's are cool just for cool's sake. I think exo's are cool when there's a need and they are functional. If it's just there to look cool and you really don't have a need for anything more than a basic 6 point cage, then I'll call you a poseur and tell you to have fun.......in the nicest way of course. :)

I wheel with my wife and 2 small boys all the time and sometimes it'd be real nice to keep them comfortable inside the hardtop or softtop and hvae something out there to protect my top in case we went over, so I think I could honestly justify a exo. but I really don't think it's necessary. I've got solid 8 point cage that I am confident will keep me and my family safe and to me THAT is what's COOL.

Adam, I'm just bustin balls dude. Like I said I tend to agree with you. I also have had the same thoughts about protecting the outside of the rig as well as the contents. I don't yet own a 40 series. I've been looking for the right truck for quite some time now. I intend on wheeling with both my wife and baby daughter inside the rig. I also have concerns for their comfort (ie; Hardtop and a/c) and safety (read: cage). I've built this truck a hundred times in my head, family cage, interior or exo-cage, fenders, no fenders, running boards or not, sua or soa, york oba or co2 tank. The truck still isn't sitting in my driveway, and even if it was it still wouldn't be complete. There are sooo many variables that will weigh in the decission making proccess. I still like to throw ideas around, practical or not, useful or not, one of those ideas may save me alot of pain and or money in the future. By the way, I think your rig is one bad MOFO, it's the walpaper on my desktop for Christ's sake. I dig your setup, and may steal some ideas from you too.

I am not going to build an exo for mine because its cool but rather because I want to keep from replacing windshields and want to keep the trees off whichever top I have on. The trees around here will wreck a soft top in 5 minutes. Wheeling like that can get spendy really fast. Maybe the guy doesn't have alot of off camber spots you never know but I will take a flop instead of a smashed soft top and windshield anyday. just my thoughts.

arndog

Hey, this is my thread and I wanted to talk about external front hoop ONLY ! :flipoff2:

How about this :
The two tubes on both sides would make the link between the main hoops and the front hoop triangulated somewhat, I think it could work fine. Where the tubes stop at the back is where they would connect to the hoop through the hardtop : big thick plates and BIG bolts...

http://toy4x4.free.fr/acc.jpg

Actually Denis, I kinda like it. How about u-bolts under the "main hoop", through a plate (attached to the underside of the top), through the top, then through the "plate" attached to the "back bars" ?

believe it or not I actually put a lot of thought into this a few years ago. Enough that I spent the time to build a 3D model of what I was thinking. Here's a couple of renders of the design I was thinking about, one with the top off and one with the top on. I abandoned the idea when I couldn't think of a clean way to run the cage through the hardtop without screwing it up and keeping it leak proof.

The other couple of photos are a friend of mine's HJ47 with an external front hoop. This particular truck suffered a triple rollover on Moab Rim with the rim just as you see it in the photos with no tie-in to the main cage. It hardly moved and saved his windshield. I am all about saving the windshield if at all possible.

3D render with no top:

http://user.netomia.com/Box%20Rocket/tan_a.jpg

3D render with hardtop:

http://user.netomia.com/Box%20Rocket/willowd0.jpg

HJ47 with exo front hoop:

http://user.netomia.com/Box%20Rocket/darryl1.jpg
http://user.netomia.com/Box%20Rocket/darryl2.jpg

maybe that inspires a few more ideas.

Adam,
That 3D looks awesome. Would you mind sending me the 3D file for it? I've also been thinking about an external cage design. Thanks. fj40@neilm.com

Sorry. not a chance. I do prefessional 3D and I've got too many hours in that one. Far too much time modelling out all the details. That "hi-res" of a model would cost a couple G's in the industry I work in.

"That "hi-res" of a model would cost a couple G's in the industry I work in."


What do you think all the other photo's done above in paint would go for? 3 or 4 G's? They look just as good ;)

He's not asking for just an image. I'm freely sharing the images. Jeepps is asking for the 3D file of the wire mesh of the model. That's what gets expensive.

The is a substantial difference in time spent on the paint images and the 3D ones I can assure you.;)

Adam I'm, 100% with you on this, and I don't even agree with what kipper said. My shitty paintshops at least are not worth much more than $0.02 :flipoff2:

Adam, you 3D work is AWESOME !
Nobody would dare to post paintchops after this... :D

OK, so you're freely sharing the images are you ?...

Mmmh... would you happen to have a light-blue one with the top off, half doors in front of a mountains landscape at sunset ? :rolleyes: