I've been reading alot of stuff on here about Tellico being closed and about the Southern four wheel drive association and was wondering with everything the SFWDA does where are thier real success stories?What areas have they kept open?I know they do alot of trail maintainence but what other things have they really done?Just curious before I join,if its worth it.

We have decided not to promote SFWDA on Southeast Offroad. Not sure if that helps you.

If it was not for SFWDA Tellico would have been closed years ago.

They also funded the recent counter study on Tellico, lobby in D.C. ect.

Seems really odd to me that we spend thousands on a rig, tires, gas ect. and find excuses not to support one of the the more active land use organizations.

I support Blue Ribbon also. Show me another worthy organization and I'll support them too.

I if really like to wheel how can a few bucks not be "worth it"?

It could not be worth it.When you have 4WD clubs with 30 members or more paying the membership fee of $40 that is alot of money and they're are alot of clubs.In todays economy the way you spend your money is important.With over 50 views on this thread and 3 responses over 2 days thats really interesting.I posted a legitimate question and I have had no real solid answers.What area has the SFWDA kept open?What areas do they maintain on a regular basis?I like to wheel and I want to feel I'm giving my money to a responsible organization.I've lived in TN for all my life and I've been a member in the past but as I reflect back I cannot think of anything that the SFWDA has done.Thats why I ask and I'm still listening but frankly this thread is a discouragement.

I will not read this thread and move on without posting. I live in an area I have to travel to go wheeling, but on several of those trips I have met SFWDA officers, and the passion and commitment those folks have shown me have made me support them. They HAVE kept Tellico open, and are continuing to fight to REOPEN it. I really know of no better way to support Southern wheeling than to support them. Other than the private parks, Tellico has been the pinnacle of challenging Southern wheeling for quite some time, and is a key battleground for land access on a National level. My guess is the SFWDA organization hasn't chimed in here because they are too busy fighting for Tellico, so if you want to know more about what else they do I would recommend checking out their website. Its easy to point the finger when we get pissed our favorite trails are closed, but I'm not going to armchair quarterback this one. Keeping the trails open is what they do. Give them the support they need to do that job for all of us so we can get back to enjoying the trails.

The only thing I'm really hearing they done is fight for Tellico and thats awesome but I'm not really into the waiting game when it comes to the things that are important to me anymore.Maybe the Tellico four wheel drive association would be a better name for Southern.just a thought.Its just when you hear the Southern Four wheel Drive Association you think of involvement in the southeast and thats what im getting at.Another thing that bothers me is when the SFWDA holds an event somewhere like Grayrock or GMP the cost to ride goes from like $15 to $40 or $50 to $70 because its a southern event and that keeps people away,believe me it does.

I went riding this weekend and everyone I talked to is done with the SFWDA.

I decided to have no use for them when they worked with the forest service to eliminate other types of offroaders "dunebuggies" so they could stay in Tellico a little longer.
Blamed all the runoff problems on buggies and non 4wd vehicles.
I can for sure move alot more rocks and dirt than any dunebuggy with my crawler.
I have met with some of their trail crew, and must admit I liked those individuals, but not what they do as a group.

I tried to get our club, and another, larger club in MS involved with SFWDA.

the "attitude" with trying to work with them was a huge turnoff. being a part of a group that showed no interest in representing but willing to take our cash wasn't acceptable

Just so ppl know!!! SFWDA is doing something.... I have 2 friends that own cabins in tellico and they are saying it will reopen in 2011!!! the funny thing is all the trails will be great for the SFWDA cause the will have alot of gravel and a pot hole or two!!! F U SFWDA!!!

Alright. I just found this thread, and honestly...Pirate is not the way that most of the old timers in Southern communicate, so it's hard for them to defend what they do.

True, a lot of resources have been going to Tellico over the years, but honestly, just maintaining that was exhausting both financially and logistically. For years, we have poured tens of thousands of dollars into trail maintenance. We also have provided volunteer hours and equipment so that everyone could continue to ride Tellico.

I only joined Southern when Tellico came under fire. I did it because I feel strongly that they are the only group with the backing and the horsepower to make things happen at Tellico. Now, I am their Land Management Officer. Every person I have met has been a fantastic person. Not one has been standoffish, rude, or anything. But, I'll tell you what, they are all overworked and trying the best they can. And frankly, I am in the same boat. I am trying to work, raise a 1 year old, keep my husband from wringing my neck, and keeping up with Tellico.

And, regardless of what you think about Southern, they are the only group that has their shit together enough to work with BRC and United to get Tellico reopened. You name one more group that has a 30 year history there, has dumped hundreds of thousands of dollars and thousands and thousands of hours into the area? Tell me who's been at all the meeting since they started?

Regardless of what you think about Southern, they are the only thing that is standing in the way of Tellico being closed forever. Do you really think now is the time to bash them? By doing so, your just putting another nail in the coffin.

The other things that SFWDA does included lobbying in southern states for access rights on public land, serving on boards of various states helping distribute RTP funds for OHV development, working with the FS and states to try to find areas for more trails, etc.

Listen, you are gonna believe what you want to believe, and I am not going to change your minds, but pick on a group that is fighting against what you do, not for it. And tnguytim, thanks for that. Good to know that I am busting my ass to keep our trails available to us for people like you. Now I can sleep well at night.

Yawn!

That's it? Yawn? So you get on here and you ask questions and I try to answer them and all I get is Yawn?

EDIT...you finished the thought, I must have caught you in the middle of an edit.

We have decided not to promote SFWDA on Southeast Offroad. Not sure if that helps you.

Really?

Southeast Offroad Donations to Save Tellico!
« on: February, 27, 2009, 02, 22, 41, PM »

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Ok guys, it's now or never. If you read the current Tellico order, you noticed where it says "THIS TAKES MONEY". That is the purpose of this post. I have setup a new paypal and email account to show Southeast Offroad's support for Tellico OHV. ALL money donated will go to SFWDA to help fund the legalities and resources they need to help this operation. If you are interested in donating ANYTHING, you can send paypal donations to:

Paypal address: rescuetellico@southeastoffroad.com

Every week, we will send the donations to SFWDA. If you donate, please post the amount in this thread so we can tally it. Dont forget to send your letters in also. IT IS CRUCIAL!

And I didn't post this to be a smart ass, we really appreciate the support because we are not doing this for us...we are doing it for the sport.

Yawn! When you say "WE" you are just talking about the thousands people who give thier time as volunteers and thier money to you in the form of memberships,etc...This thread was started 4/13 and for you to "just find it" proves my point that the SFWDA should be the TellicoFWDA.As far as other things that you say the SFWDA is doing in the southeast=very vague if you ask me.

Dude, do you know how much time I would have to spend on the interweb to find every post in every subforum on every one of the forums? Impossible. One of our members pointed me here.

As for what we are doing, frankly, you believe what you want to. Like I said, I am not going to change your mind. And, even if you want to call us the TellicoFWDA, so be it. At least we are working to save something instead of working to keep Tellico closed like you are by badmouthing the only group that is working to save it.

Not to get off on a different tangent... but I have always wondered why FL is not included with the SFWDA??
We travel a long way to get to these spots, but get no love. :(

Are we really that big of bastards down here?? (Ok,you really don't have to answer that one)

If someone from SFWDA could tell me how they are working with Windrock to open up more 4x4 trails I will send you my money.the Windrock Atv club has did an awesome there they have lots of land and are set up as a park already . Not haten on tellico but it is closed and government run/managed/owned parks are always one phone call away from being shut down.

Not to get off on a different tangent... but I have always wondered why FL is not included with the SFWDA??
We travel a long way to get to these spots, but get no love. :(

Are we really that big of bastards down here?? (Ok,you really don't have to answer that one)

you can be included (meaning your money can be taken) but don't expect to be represented. I know that management of SFWDA changes, but, honestly, I've talked to several different people over the years and got the same attitude. I asked one of them one time why all of the other states are on the logo besides GA, because it appeared that most of the members were from GA and they really didn't care to garner more support from other states, much less a southern state not on their logo

Heather, I'm quite sure that you and SFWDA have done much and spent quite a bit of your member's monies. The issue isn't what you've done, it's what you haven't done and/or doing. SOUTHERN Four Wheel Drive Association has never represented what it designates in it's name. I've met with closed minds and singular attitudes from SFWDA and I'm guessing that's why many people have developed a distaste.

Criticize as you will that Tellico is the only focus of Southern, but we do work on other things. I'll be honest with you, I don't work on much more than that because it takes all my time. But I know that we have people working on other things.

One example is David Borum. He's our Legislative Affairs Director. He works with state agencies to make sure that laws are passed that are favorable to OHV recreation. He also is the watchdog to make sure that laws don't get passed that are against OHV recreation. Here is a link to the Land Use page on our website...read more about what he does: http://www.sfwda.org/landuse/

You'll also see on there some notes from Iva Michelle Russell, she's been working for years in Tennessee and surrounding areas to get more OHV areas up and is the chariman for OHV4TN.

Not on the page, but also happening is that Dave Logan serves on the selection committee in Georgia that distributes Rectional Trails Program funds. This is a fund matching program for government to apply for funding to create trails. The money is Federal, the grants are local, and in the states in the SE, ONLY government may apply to get the grants. Here's some info: http://www.arra-access.com/arra/RTPOverview.html. The other prong of this is that we have to convince public land agencies that they should open up more OHV areas. But with the fight at Tellico and in other areas around the SE.

I'll not argue with you that Tellico has always been the major focus of Southern, but that is a function of 2 things: 1) it's the biggest baddest place to ride in the SE and 2) we are severely under staffed with volunteers to do much more and make a big impact. I've been working with volunteer organizations of all different types for years, and it's the hardest thing in the world to do. Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one. But it's rare that people take their opinions and step up and try to make a difference instead of just bitching about it.

As for Florida, I am sure you are not all bastards. I believe that the reason it is not included is because there is a Florida Four Wheel Drive Association that is a member of United in and of itself. So, you have your own organization. http://www.fl4wda.com/. Remember, Southern is like any other club that is a member club of United...it rolls up. So Rock Solid is a member club of Southern, who is a member club of United. And that is what dues go to. Southern's dues include United dues, so Southern's dues are $40. You get the newsletter, we sponsor Dixie Run and Trailfest, and you get membership into United (which includes their publication too). Southen only keeps a fraction of the dues paid.

I hope that helps answer some of the questions y'all have. Could Southern do more, sure. Could Southern help some private parks, sure...and we are starting to look into that. But it's a slow process because we need help. We are starting the biggest battle of access for OHV to public land that has ever happened on the East Coast and forgive us for being a bit focused. But also understand that the ramifications of what happens at Tellico will impact not only public land, but private as well. If they are successful in shutting down Tellico based on water quality issues, that will be a precedent and the private places will be next on the anti-access groups list to attack.

Heather, I'm quite sure that you and SFWDA have done much and spent quite a bit of your member's monies. The issue isn't what you've done, it's what you haven't done and/or doing. SOUTHERN Four Wheel Drive Association has never represented what it designates in it's name. I've met with closed minds and singular attitudes from SFWDA and I'm guessing that's why many people have developed a distaste.

I think the "attitude" that everyone is saying they have experienced is burnout, plain and simple. There are 5-10 people that run the club, in their spare time, as volunteers. It's hard. I am not whining, but I am sorta pissed off at the fact that this shit is flying now and that only one person that has been outspoken about Southern has stepped up to volunteer to do more.

Bottom line, the only way to effect change is to volunteer and make things change. That's why I am here. So, I guess my point is, bitch as much as you want, but put up or shut up, so to speak.

And as for money spending, we have a treasurer's report at every meeting, please feel free to show up and ask about where the money is going. I am sure that we'll be happy to show you.

I think the "attitude" that everyone is saying they have experienced is burnout, plain and simple. There are 5-10 people that run the club, in their spare time, as volunteers. It's hard. I am not whining, but I am sorta pissed off at the fact that this shit is flying now and that only one person that has been outspoken about Southern has stepped up to volunteer to do more.

Bottom line, the only way to effect change is to volunteer and make things change. That's why I am here. So, I guess my point is, bitch as much as you want, but put up or shut up, so to speak.

And as for money spending, we have a treasurer's report at every meeting, please feel free to show up and ask about where the money is going. I am sure that we'll be happy to show you.

look, this goes back 5 years for me personally, at least. And quite frankly, I won't shut up and refuse to put up with an organization that exhibits this very attitude that you are now showing and has no interest in representing my interests but are very interested in my dues and support. I don't need to show up at a meeting, I don't need to know where the money is going. I simply requested an agreeable attitude to represent clubs in my SOUTHERN state and have hit this same wall of BS every time.

as far as FL.... I won't say for sure, because I don't know, but there might be a FL FWDA simply because of that lack of inclusion in SFWDA, not the other way around.

look, this goes back 5 years for me personally, at least. And quite frankly, I won't shut up and refuse to put up with an organization that exhibits this very attitude that you are now showing and has no interest in representing my interests but are very interested in my dues and support. I don't need to show up at a meeting, I don't need to know where the money is going. I simply requested an agreeable attitude to represent clubs in my SOUTHERN state and have hit this same wall of BS every time.

as far as FL.... I won't say for sure, because I don't know, but there might be a FL FWDA simply because of that lack of inclusion in SFWDA, not the other way around.

I've been volunteering with Southern for 2 years, that's it. I don't know your baggage. What do you want us to do? What attitude am I giving you? I am trying to respond to questions that people are asking, isn't that what you want?

And I didn't address the logo because I don't know the answer. Hell, I live in Georgia and I don't have my panties in a wad over a logo. WHAT DO YOU WANT? When you say you want to be represented, what do you mean? Do you want me to tell the BOD that they need to add GA on the logo? Fine, I'll do it. Do you want me to come to your club meeting to talk about things to make you feel better? Fine, I'll try to do that too. But I don't know your baggage and I can't do anything to fix it if I don't know it. AND, if you really think that it can't be fixed, then fine, but quit bitching about it not being fixable and move on.

I am here, I am trying to answer questions, and all that is happening is that I am taking the brunt of hard feelings that have been brewing against Southern for a long time. I AM NEW TO SOUTHERN and I am here to try to make sure that we have places to ride. If you question what I am doing and why, you can respectfully kiss my ass. Sorry if that is attitude, but there is nothing worse than being someone that does step up and then has to endure a beating over this stuff.

I've been volunteering with Southern for 2 years, that's it. I don't know your baggage. What do you want us to do? What attitude am I giving you? I am trying to respond to questions that people are asking, isn't that what you want?

And I didn't address the logo because I don't know the answer. Hell, I live in Georgia and I don't have my panties in a wad over a logo. WHAT DO YOU WANT? When you say you want to be represented, what do you mean? Do you want me to tell the BOD that they need to add GA on the logo? Fine, I'll do it. Do you want me to come to your club meeting to talk about things to make you feel better? Fine, I'll try to do that too. But I don't know your baggage and I can't do anything to fix it if I don't know it. AND, if you really think that it can't be fixed, then fine, but quit bitching about it not being fixable and move on.

I am here, I am trying to answer questions, and all that is happening is that I am taking the brunt of hard feelings that have been brewing against Southern for a long time. I AM NEW TO SOUTHERN and I am here to try to make sure that we have places to ride. If you question what I am doing and why, you can respectfully kiss my ass. Sorry if that is attitude, but there is nothing worse than being someone that does step up and then has to endure a beating over this stuff.

want my suggestion? STFU because you are doing more damage for the organization than any good

you have epitomized that "attitude" all have talked about.

http://www.sfwda.org/logos/sfwda8ff.png

OK, whatever. Obviously you are just full of hot air and unwilling to actually come to the table with constructive items that I can help with. As I said, I am new, I don't know the past issues you have, but I am willing to try.

I asked one of them one time why all of the other states are on the logo besides GA, because it appeared that most of the members were from GA and they really didn't care to garner more support from other states, much less a southern state not on their logo.

This was the thing about the logo, I guess I don't understand what you meant?

you have epitomized that "attitude" all have talked about.

And, please define my "attitude." Please be specific. What have I done that so offends and pisses you off, that you would tell a stranger to STFU, not to mention one that is working so hard to fight for your right to ride (even if it is just at Tellico).

This was the thing about the logo, I guess I don't understand what you meant?
obviously. you also didn't realize that GA was on the logo

the point I was making was, why were any of the other states on the logo, when all they really cared about were issues that those from GA care about.

it's called sarcasm, google it

And, please define my "attitude." Please be specific. What have I done that so offends and pisses you off, that you would tell a stranger to STFU, not to mention one that is working so hard to fight for your right to ride (even if it is just at Tellico).

frankly, I don't need to define it. I'm not here to justify your existence within SFWDA or explain myself to you.

Your insulting "attitude" as a representative of the organization speaks for itself. I can tell you to shut the fuck up, because I don't represent the organizaton but understand the purpose, understand that your "attitude" is generating more animosity rather than attempting to solve or help in any manner and realize that your continued path will do no good. Honestly, if I was Pres of SFWDA, I would tell you to STFU and walk away.

Your "attitude" is driving a wedge further because you've directly insulted many, told others to shut up, don't understand when someone is asked to pay dues AND they want representation, told people to kiss your ass, provide excuses for yours and other's attitudes, condescendto others for bitching about their issues, etc. etc.

I don't care what you've done, intend to do, or want to do. This isn't about you, but you have come here volutarily and personified one of the very issues that people complained about.

obviously. you also didn't realize that GA was on the logo

the point I was making was, why were any of the other states on the logo, when all they really cared about were issues that those from GA care about.

Ah, gotcha. Well, I wondered because I thought that it was on there but you are right, I've never really paid attention to the logo. It's not the reason I do what I do. I try to help out where I can because I like to wheel...and that's really my motivation, not geographic lines.

Listen, I've stepped away from my computer, gone out on this wonderful sunny day, got a sandwich, and thought about this for a bit. Going back and forth on this isn't making things better for anyone. So if there is truely something you want from me or Southern, then let me know. If not, then I will now STFU and let y'all bitch. I can't help if I don't know how. Best to you and I hope that you have a great summer wheeling.

frankly, I don't need to define it. I'm not here to justify your existence within SFWDA or explain myself to you.

Your insulting "attitude" as a representative of the organization speaks for itself. I can tell you to shut the fuck up, because I don't represent the organizaton but understand the purpose, understand that your "attitude" is generating more animosity rather than attempting to solve or help in any manner and realize that your continued path will do no good. Honestly, if I was Pres of SFWDA, I would tell you to STFU and walk away.

Your "attitude" is driving a wedge further because you've directly insulted many, told others to shut up, don't understand when someone is asked to pay dues AND they want representation, told people to kiss your ass, provide excuses for yours and other's attitudes, condescendto others for bitching about their issues, etc. etc.

I don't care what you've done, intend to do, or want to do. This isn't about you, but you have come here volutarily and personified one of the very issues that people complained about.

Not at all my intent. In fact, my intent is just the opposite. If you knew me, you'd know that I really do care about this sport and the issues we face. I don't know you and I am sorry if I offended you in any way. I was really curious about the "attitude" because I don't feel like I have it. Obviously you disagree, and that's fine.

We are not on the same page here, and I am OK with that. Take care.

Ah, gotcha. Well, I wondered because I thought that it was on there but you are right, I've never really paid attention to the logo. It's not the reason I do what I do. I try to help out where I can because I like to wheel...and that's really my motivation, not geographic lines.

Listen, I've stepped away from my computer, gone out on this wonderful sunny day, got a sandwich, and thought about this for a bit. Going back and forth on this isn't making things better for anyone. So if there is truely something you want from me or Southern, then let me know. If not, then I will now STFU and let y'all bitch. I can't help if I don't know how. Best to you and I hope that you have a great summer wheeling.

Excellent. There is no way you can retort this sort of stuff and win. People want to bitch and whine and when someone tries to defend that, it never works out.

I don't doubt YOUR personal interest or even others. What's happened has simply happened and where it will lead, as far as any change is concerned, who knows.

It could not be worth it.When you have 4WD clubs with 30 members or more paying the membership fee of $40 that is alot of money and they're are alot of clubs.In todays economy the way you spend your money is important.With over 50 views on this thread and 3 responses over 2 days thats really interesting.I posted a legitimate question and I have had no real solid answers.What area has the SFWDA kept open?What areas do they maintain on a regular basis? I like to wheel and I want to feel I'm giving my money to a responsible organization.I've lived in TN for all my life and I've been a member in the past but as I reflect back I cannot think of anything that the SFWDA has done.Thats why I ask and I'm still listening but frankly this thread is a discouragement.

When Southern formed years ago it was solely put together to keep Tellico open. I don't care who tells you what, that was it's main mission. Over the years the organization has spread. Now other OHVs are around and they need that influence too. Do i know the specifics of all the maintenance? No, I don't. However, I do know that Tellico recieves volunteers and heavy equipment is used to maintain these trails. The Caliber report will show you those numbers.

Yawn! When you say "WE" you are just talking about the thousands people who give thier time as volunteers and thier money to you in the form of memberships,etc...This thread was started 4/13 and for you to "just find it" proves my point that the SFWDA should be the TellicoFWDA.As far as other things that you say the SFWDA is doing in the southeast=very vague if you ask me.

I've read a few of your posts in other threads and considered them constructive but after reading these others I've come to the conclusion that you are an idiot. Plain and simple. What people seem to forget is that presidence is a bitch. A nast one that once she gets her way she gets her way everytime, everywhere. My point? The point is that Tellico has recieved the majority of the focus because that's where the fight is at. During war when you hear about a major battle that can swing the momentum you don't go and run to Kentucky to gald hand people. You get in there and duke it out and make sure your side wins.

I do agree with you however. I do think Southern should spread its influence to other areas and other states.

you can be included (meaning your money can be taken) but don't expect to be represented. I know that management of SFWDA changes, but, honestly, I've talked to several different people over the years and got the same attitude. I asked one of them one time why all of the other states are on the logo besides GA, because it appeared that most of the members were from GA and they really didn't care to garner more support from other states, much less a southern state not on their logo

Heather, I'm quite sure that you and SFWDA have done much and spent quite a bit of your member's monies. The issue isn't what you've done, it's what you haven't done and/or doing. SOUTHERN Four Wheel Drive Association has never represented what it designates in it's name. I've met with closed minds and singular attitudes from SFWDA and I'm guessing that's why many people have developed a distaste.

I'm with Heather on this one. What's with the baggage? I understand your point but typically logos are made years in the past and you don't go changing your brand name or look. In the PC world we live in now I don't think you'd see the rebel flag being used anywhere. Yet it still resides on the Southern logo to this day.

I understand you want to be represented. I personally want you to be. You at least have a fire in your gut about it. I like people like that. However, I think the Southeast has been represented. Have we slipped? Probably. Have we lost a few faithful? Yes, but my thoughts are that we need new membership to get the place back into shape. It's like a shitty SNL cast. After Adam Sandler, Norm MacDonald, Chris Farley and a few others left it wasn't worth a damn. It takes time for the new leadership to settle in. What they need from everyone is constructive comments on what you'd like to see. They aren't mind readers.

look, this goes back 5 years for me personally, at least. And quite frankly, I won't shut up and refuse to put up with an organization that exhibits this very attitude that you are now showing and has no interest in representing my interests but are very interested in my dues and support. I don't need to show up at a meeting, I don't need to know where the money is going. I simply requested an agreeable attitude to represent clubs in my SOUTHERN state and have hit this same wall of BS every time.

I agree. See above statement.

Windrock ?? Could you imagine riding for 8hrs camping then riding 8 more hrs without touching the same place . No bitching here .

An interesting discussion, guys and gals...


But I'd like to make a simple request - keep it based on FACTS and ISSUES, and let's put the personal crap aside.


There is potnetial to open up lines of discussion, as well as people's eyes - let's make that the goal here.

This goes to you K9CRAZY!!! I Say that about SFWDA Cause you guys can never tell anyone where the money that ppl pay goes!!! You bring in some little shitty paper you call a bank statement! And another think i am a memeber of a club you guys (SFWDA) Called out and wrote things about in a ond new letter ,regarding a ride at Harlan! Say we was Drinking and blocking a trail!!! i have you know i dont drink and hell yes i will block the trail or tell some dummy in a little jeep to move and not spend one hour trying to get up some little hill!!! Again like i said FU SFWDA!!!!

Mccracken...Im an idiot because I dont agree with southern? fine!While your little group continues to wage your battle for a lost cause(tellico)the rest of us will focus on the places we can ride.Just like southern...a day late,pockets full

you're an idiot because you don't see the big picture. You can't see the forest for all the damn trees. I'm glad you can, in good conscious, decide to give up and move on. This confirms the apathy we've all thought was around.

What next then? What happens when the only placed you think you have to drive forward gets attacked by third party interest groups? Are you going to give up there too and move to the next? Sooner or later it's going to hit a place you think is worth saving and when the precedent has already been laid down, you will lose. That's the big picture. Pull your head out of your ass for 5 minutes and get some fresh air. Southern has never stated that Tellico is the most important place in the southeast it just happens to be a very important case not only for the southeast but the entire nation. The ones that got onboard with the effort were from all over the nation and we had a good turnout from the ones out west. They may never get to wheel there but you take it for granted and give up.

What happens when there's no other place to run to?

So if there is truely something you want from me or Southern, then let me know. If not, then I will now STFU and let y'all bitch. I can't help if I don't know how.


I want Gary Parsons to return my phone call.

I have always wondered why SFWDA does not have a Commemorative Specialty Tag like TU. Well sittin here on my "Laid Off " arse, I decided to find out what it would take to get one. Seemed like an easy way to generate revenue and make SFWDA more visible. I did. I wanted to make sure I had the approval of SFWDA before I went and did this so I called Gary while he was in Tn with a Jeep Jamboree. He said that sounded great. He said that monday the 20th he wanted to call their lawyer to make sure there were no legal reasons to not do this and get back with me. This Thursday and I haven't heard from him. I did call and leave a message with him today.

You asked what you can do for me, there you go.

I too have lost faith in SFWDA but I am giving them my last ditch effort to prove me wrong. I hope they do.

Unfortunately I don't think Tellico is the greatest place to wheel. That doesn't mean I want it to be permanently closed though.

My .02.

I want Gary Parsons to return my phone call.

I have always wondered why SFWDA does not have a Commemorative Specialty Tag like TU. Well sittin here on my "Laid Off " arse, I decided to find out what it would take to get one. Seemed like an easy way to generate revenue and make SFWDA more visible. I did. I wanted to make sure I had the approval of SFWDA before I went and did this so I called Gary while he was in Tn with a Jeep Jamboree. He said that sounded great. He said that monday the 20th he wanted to call their lawyer to make sure there were no legal reasons to not do this and get back with me. This Thursday and I haven't heard from him. I did call and leave a message with him today.

You asked what you can do for me, there you go.

I too have lost faith in SFWDA but I am giving them my last ditch effort to prove me wrong. I hope they do.

Unfortunately I don't think Tellico is the greatest place to wheel. That doesn't mean I want it to be permanently closed though.

My .02.

I will give Gary a call tomorrow. Thanks for being constructive. I think the plate is a good idea too. Take care.

The mccrackhead guy thinks SFWDa Is the best thing ever!!!! news flash u pull your head out of there ass and wake up!!!!!! cause you are starting to sould like a dummy!!! you cant say they are the back bone to off roading!!!!

SFWDA has been working for years, quietly, professionally, trying to protect our access rights through legal efforts, workdays, financial etc. Yall who are dissing SFWDA either are simply ignorant of how the process works when trying to deal with Federal Government agencies and the courts or you are just wanting to gain some momentary satisfaction from the mental masturbation of piling on to SFWDA because it looks like the organization is on the ropes.

Honestly, those of you who are blasting SFWDA, what have YOU done to preserve public 4X4 access to public lands? Posting childish lambasting rants on Pirate doesnt count.

The way to get shit done is by coming TOGETHER as a common force for saving our access rights, not by showing our enemies (who are reading this post along with you!!) that we are fractious and splintered.

SFWDA has been a very small core group of people trying to save the premier 4X4 site in the eastern US from the incredibly well-funded Southern Environment Law Center and Trout Unlimited. Perhaps the SFWDA leadership's skills at communicating that effort have not been the best. But taking pot-shots at them from the safety of your keyboard does NOTHING to help the cause and only further divides us.

I have sat in on the conference calls between BRC leadership, the lawyers, and SFWDA and been amazed at the diligence, professionalism, knowlege and commitment of this small group of Davids trying to slay the green Goliath. I have spent many hours with these folks picking up trash at Tellico, putting up signs, doing trail repairs, and completing tasks assigned to us by the USFS. I spend many hours trying to keep the SFWDA website up to date and trying to organize events with limited help.

Coming here to find yall trashing SFWDA make me sick. It makes we want to give up. And that's exactly what SELC and TU want! Cant you see that? YOU ARE HELPING THESE SELF-ANNOINTED GREENIE LIBERAL PROGRESSIVES ASSHOLES WHO WANT TO DESTROY WHAT YOU AND I HOLD DEAR. Screw you.

SFWDA has been working for years, quietly, professionally, trying to protect our access rights through legal efforts, workdays, financial etc. Yall who are dissing SFWDA either are simply ignorant of how the process works when trying to deal with Federal Government agencies and the courts or you are just wanting to gain some momentary satisfaction from the mental masturbation of piling on to SFWDA because it looks like the organization is on the ropes.

Honestly, those of you who are blasting SFWDA, what have YOU done to preserve public 4X4 access to public lands? Posting childish lambasting rants on Pirate doesnt count.

The way to get shit done is by coming TOGETHER as a common force for saving our access rights, not by showing our enemies (who are reading this post along with you!!) that we are fractious and splintered.

SFWDA has been a very small core group of people trying to save the premier 4X4 site in the eastern US from the incredibly well-funded Southern Environment Law Center and Trout Unlimited. Perhaps the SFWDA leadership's skills at communicating that effort have not been the best. But taking pot-shots at them from the safety of your keyboard does NOTHING to help the cause and only further divides us.

I have sat in on the conference calls between BRC leadership, the lawyers, and SFWDA and been amazed at the diligence, professionalism, knowlege and commitment of this small group of Davids trying to slay the green Goliath. I have spent many hours with these folks picking up trash at Tellico, putting up signs, doing trail repairs, and completing tasks assigned to us by the USFS. I spend many hours trying to keep the SFWDA website up to date and trying to organize events with limited help.

Coming here to find yall trashing SFWDA make me sick. It makes we want to give up. And that's exactly what SELC and TU want! Cant you see that? YOU ARE HELPING THESE SELF-ANNOINTED GREENIE LIBERAL PROGRESSIVES ASSHOLES WHO WANT TO DESTROY WHAT YOU AND I HOLD DEAR. Screw you.

This is a prime example of why people get disgusted with a group. When someone tells another to shut up and do something and that they are doing nothing but whining, it means they are close-minded and give no credence to the gripe.

You WILL NOT win over support acting this way. You WILL NOT succeed at keeping support because of your attitude.

People have a legitimate gripe. I know many have voiced these gripes to SFWDA when they were asked to "support" and was ignored and similarly dismissed. You suck at supporting and SFWDA sucks at the whole public relation aspect of this thing.

Good luck, until major changes in attitude and responsibility occurs, I imagine I will be like many others and forego worrying what SFWDA does, whether it's in my best interests or not. Finding another organization that is more accomodating and supportive of prospective and current members is likely the best course. Being combative with a member/customer will never win you support.

The mccrackhead guy thinks SFWDa Is the best thing ever!!!! news flash u pull your head out of there ass and wake up!!!!!! cause you are starting to sould like a dummy!!! you cant say they are the back bone to off roading!!!!

Hey, McCracken is not up anyone's arse. Trust me on this. He does have knowledge in this arena, probably more so than all the people who post up in these threads combined.

He does tell it like it is though. That's what we need more of around here, straight talk. From everybody, SFWDA, TU(their true hidden agenda), FS officials, elected officials and us PBB posters.

We need more concrete evidence and reasoning and not all this stucco that will fall off and fade in the near future.

Sorry, Nick's a good guy and I hate to see him or anyone openly bashed for trying to help "US" out.

Honestly, those of you who are blasting SFWDA, what have YOU done to preserve public 4X4 access to public lands?

Please, understand one thing. Individuals do not have to justify themselves by what they've done for the cause. Get that?

The SFWDA wants those individuals' money and support and must explain what they've done. Don't confuse the two.

Here are my 2 cents from someone who has recently become involved w/ SFWDA.

k9crazy has/is donating a TON of her time to the fight to keep Tellico open. I have been amazed by what she has given up personally to try and keep the trails open. She isn't just a regular volunteer. She knows her stuff when it comes to the environment - she is an asset to Tellico. She is also a redhead so I cut her a little slack on being fiery! :grinpimp: She really is working hard to save Tellico - you have to trust me on that one.

I ALWAYS try to understand both sides of an argument - whether I agree with each side or not. It helps one to get a better grasp of a situation, specifically where each side is coming from. What I hear from the ones who started this thread is they want SFWDA to communicate and reach out more. What k9 is saying is SFWDA is a small group, whom are all volunteers (unpaid and often unthanked) and highly over worked.

Some SFWDA members/reps who have posted up have a right to be a bit hot. They are busting their ass to save Tellico while getting called out on the web. That is frustrating.

Also, as I understand it SFWDA was originally formed to support the Tellico trails. Just because their logo shows other states doesn't pin them in to doing the exact same at other places as they do at Tellico. Can the multiple Southern states on the logo not also represent where SFWDA members reside?

What I really want to stress is openly calling out SFWDA and saying Tellico is a lost cause does absolutely nothing to help get the trails open again. The current fight is at Tellico. What makes you think that if Tellico is lost the next set of trails won't come under fire? Other trails have already been eyed. If Tellico is lost then the other trails will be next. Please trust me on this one.

If you study the science at Tellico the trails should be open. There is suitable habitat to support the brook trout even though other trout species have been stocked that out compete the little native brook trout. There is suitable habitat to support the brook trout even though ORV trails have been at Tellico for decades. There is suitable habitat to support the brook trout even with FS clearcuts bleeding sediment into Tellico streams. There is suitable habitat to support the brook trout even though private inholdings have contributed large amounts of sediment into the streams. There is suitable habitat to support the brook trout even though contractors hired by the FS to maintain the Tellico trails claim they can't maintain 11 and 12 due to the challenge areas and steep terrain - even though SFWDA volunteers have and can reach every foot of the ORV truck trails.

Tellico is not lost. If the FS hires competent contractors to maintain the trails that can reach every foot of trail and stops stocking non-native species that literally "put a whoopin'" on the little brookies then the trails for the most part are fine! The brook trout have suitable habitat and they have suitable food sources.

Read the USFS Trails Unlimited report. This report was compiled by USFS trails experts. Then read the EA. Don't they read a little different? The Trails Unlimited report is the polar opposite of the EA that reads as justification for closure. Why did the EA not mention the Trails Unlimited report? B/c it doesn't support what they have already decided and that is they want to close Tellico. Also, why is the EA several hundred pages and actual trout sampling numbers are only briefly mentioned? If the claim is that the ORV trails are killing the brookies shouldn't definitive sampling numbers be shown that without a doubt prove that brook trout numbers are crashing - not just some brief sampling at a couple locations? Something is fishy here...get it...fishy??? (yes, my jokes are bad)

And don't even get me started on the economics of the area. The EA stretches the economic impact over a three county area when the true economic impact is in the area immediately surrounding Tellico. The total impact is also very low from where it should be due to the trail usage numbers in the study being low. IIRC this is even mentioned in the EA. Look at historic trail usage numbers which portray a better glimpse of what level of use the trails truly receive, then run this numbers through the EA's economic study math, and then apply this impact to the LOCAL area, not the surrounding counties, and the economic impact is HUGE! The EA tries to say that closing the trails will have a minimal impact on the area's economy. Go tell that to Danny at Crawford's, or the owners of Tellico Cabins (I'm blanking on their names right now - sorry), and I guarantee they will tell you the opposite. (Dangit - I got started... :laughing:)

Tellico is not lost. Tellico, SFWDA, local business owners and families need the entire ORV community to support Tellico - and particularly not post online that "Tellico is lost." That is like walking up to a family member in the hospital who is very sick and 'pulling the plug' b/c the outlook is gloom. Please don't do that.

:beer:

I'm with Heather on this one. What's with the baggage? I understand your point but typically logos are made years in the past and you don't go changing your brand name or look. In the PC world we live in now I don't think you'd see the rebel flag being used anywhere. Yet it still resides on the Southern logo to this day.

I understand you want to be represented. I personally want you to be. You at least have a fire in your gut about it. I like people like that. However, I think the Southeast has been represented. Have we slipped? Probably. Have we lost a few faithful? Yes, but my thoughts are that we need new membership to get the place back into shape. It's like a shitty SNL cast. After Adam Sandler, Norm MacDonald, Chris Farley and a few others left it wasn't worth a damn. It takes time for the new leadership to settle in. What they need from everyone is constructive comments on what you'd like to see. They aren't mind readers.

I'm sorry, but altering a logo to accommodate membership IS NOT a hard thing to do.... even amateurs can do it. But the logo thing was the VISUAL indicator of the lack of interest of supporting the additional members.

See if you can understand it this way. We have 200 people spread across 2 clubs and all live in Mississippi. SFWDA says it wants our membership, but is not willing to explain what the return for that membership is. Further, SFWDA wants our membership, but how do you explain to the everyday guy that your dues are going to this organization that will likely not have any input on issues within the state and can't have the foresight to alter a logo to better reflect their name AND include YOU in their recognition. You think some guy wants to ride around with a sticker that doesn't seem to reflect him? Isn't that the point of branding in the first place?

Branding cuts both ways. I don't know why MS and FL was originally skipped out on when the club began, but both are as more representative of the South as any other state and it looks disingenuous excluding those from a branding standpoint. It's certainly disingenuous when you ask for support from members of those states without providing any idea of how you would represent them, much less recognize their existence.

The mccrackhead guy thinks SFWDa Is the best thing ever!!!! news flash u pull your head out of there ass and wake up!!!!!! cause you are starting to sould like a dummy!!! you cant say they are the back bone to off roading!!!!

No, I don't think it's the best thing ever but I do think it deserves a look at. It's a worthwhile effort that needs a new direction and people like yourself can help with that.

Hey, McCracken is not up anyone's arse. Trust me on this. He does have knowledge in this arena, probably more so than all the people who post up in these threads combined.

He does tell it like it is though. That's what we need more of around here, straight talk. From everybody, SFWDA, TU(their true hidden agenda), FS officials, elected officials and us PBB posters.

We need more concrete evidence and reasoning and not all this stucco that will fall off and fade in the near future.

Sorry, Nick's a good guy and I hate to see him or anyone openly bashed for trying to help "US" out.

Thanks Steve. I do like telling it how it is. Don't think I'm just sitting over here defending Southern to the death. I'm on them too about this and I'm sure I've made a few enemies within the organization. Changes need to be made and we need to hear what the people want. Most times I like to keep the conversation going with opposing views so I can get a better idea of what the real root of the problem is. This thread is getting those ideas and problems out.

You people are brainwashed by the SFWDA and Tellico apparently.Tellico is a great overall experience for offroading but its not the best.[/qoute]

No, of course not. The best would be whatever you say it is, right? Pinhead.

[QUOTE=ROCKRAWL;9738789]What have I done?I'm using my money to build new trails in places we can ride to make them better.I've been talking to the big dogs of Coal creek to get permission to cut other trails at Windrock to make it better.

You do understand that Coal Creek is a money making venture, and you are helping them make that money.

My opinion is the SFWDA has a narrow mind on a narrow way and your post's on here has done nothing to persuade me otherwise. The vision of the annointed, eh? Fact, however interesting, are irrelevant.


I've flown to the moon,do you believe me? Sure, why didnt you stay there? :-)

The SFWDA is trying to make money,peiod.How do you make money?With other peoples money and other peoples hard work. OK, now grasshopper, you are making libelous assertions that can be argued from a legal perspective. Wanna look at the books? SFWDA is a 501c7 organization that has been audited by the IRS and passed the audit within the past 12 months.

Are you sure you want to stand by your potentially libelous allegation? You have made an assertion, in a public forum, that SFWDA is doing something illegal. That's not a very wise thing to do, without facts and evidence to back it up, ya idiot.

I will never support them and I will never encourage anyone else too.End of conversation.

OK, so you support the efforts of SELC and TU to close Tellico. Got it.

Tellico is not lost. Tellico, SFWDA, local business owners and families need the entire ORV community to support Tellico - and particularly not post online that "Tellico is lost." That is like walking up to a family member in the hospital who is very sick and 'pulling the plug' b/c the outlook is gloom. Please don't do that.

Thanks, common sense for a change on Pirate! :beer:

SELC and TU are probably having a party in their palatial corner suite over the divisiveness they are seeing on this thread. Thanks Pirate4X4 for your continued support of the liberal agenda! Keep tearing down SFWDA, you are helping the closure cause!

Morons.

The question has not been answered go back and look.I am not haten on tellico or their brook trout but there is a whole section pirate has set up for T E L L I C O The question for me is can SFWDA fight other 4x4 causes or just tellico? Not saying you chould or shoudnt just asking.

The question for me is can SFWDA fight other 4x4 causes or just tellico? Not saying you chould or shoudnt just asking.

Of course SFWDA *could* fight for other 4X4 causes, but with a core of about 10 or 12 active volunteers theres not much spare time for focus elsewhere. We do have lives, jobs, kids etc, and none of us make one thin dime off of this effort. We dont have sponsors like Cabela's with nearly unlimited $$$ spigots to pay people to get stuff done.

SFWDA is mostly Heather, Jay, Roger, Rob, David B, Dave L, Gunnar, Ray, Bob S, Greg, Brent and a few others who will probably kill me the next time they see me for forgetting to mention them. Gary, the Pres, is fully consumed at the moment with trying to keep his job, so we havent been seeing much of him. The Rescue Tellico effort is mostly Roger, Heather, Jay and David B. plus people like Gregg Mumm and Carla Boucher from BRC. Of all of these people listed, the only one for whom this is a full time job is (I think) Gregg Mumm and he's not even part of SFWDA! We all have jobs etc and do this Tellico thing on the side, at night, weekends etc.

I would love to take on Uwharrie and help with Harlan and expand the Windrock/Royal Blue area and on and on. We did manage to help lay out the trails for the first public OHV area in Alabama (Stoney Lonesome) but its going to be mostly ATV, unfortunately. There's just no time and not enough people to do it all these things. We have volunteer positions like PR that have been open for years.

The money coming in to SFWDA is mostly going to pay the engineering studies and the lawyers.

I'm on them too about this and I'm sure I've made a few enemies within the organization.

You havent made any enemies (that I know of!) but you have pushed some folks out of their comfort zone, and that's good/necessary

Both "sides" have said enough.....this thread can now die.

Discussions in support of Tellico can take place in the Tellico section. And the 3 or 4 SFWDA haters that have posted up in this thread can rest easy at night now that they have spoke their "mind."

Both "sides" have said enough.....this thread can now die.

Discussions in support of Tellico can take place in the Tellico section. And the 3 or 4 SFWDA haters that have posted up in this thread can rest easy at night now that they have spoke their "mind."

why don't you go ahead and lock the thread and move it somewhere, while you're at it :shaking:

hey Rockcrawl what progress have you made with the people at Windrock as far as cutting new trails?What can we do to help?

I will give Gary a call tomorrow. Thanks for being constructive. I think the plate is a good idea too. Take care.


Has any progress been made on these plates? I see the TU plates around Atlanta every day and I think about this. SFWDA is forfeiting tons of potential revenue here. I would love to buy two of them when I renew the tags on my rig and tow rig next month. Plus I'm sure half of the guys who drive pickups in rural areas would spring for the tag even if they have never heard of SFWDA.

If it's a tough process, I will help in any way needed.

SFWDA is forfeiting tons of potential revenue here.

I hate to be the downer on this - but based on my understanding of SFWDA's membership, even if EVERY member got a plate that's still not really a whole lot of plates.

And even then - this doesn't address the "what is the money FOR" question that many individuals and clubs would like to have answered.

I hate to be the downer on this - but based on my understanding of SFWDA's membership, even if EVERY member got a plate that's still not really a whole lot of plates.

And even then - this doesn't address the "what is the money FOR" question that many individuals and clubs would like to have answered.

Well any organization can do more with funding than it can being broke.

Obviously it wouldn't do a whole lot of good if only SFWDA members bought plates. The opportunity is to create a plate that non SFWDA members would be likely to buy. Half of the cars with TU plates around here belong to kids who think they look cool. There's no restriction on who can buy a TU plate in GA and they are definitely selling like hot cakes because I see them all the time.

After a little research, it looks like the special-interest plate fee for GA TU plates goes to the DNR. The rest of the special-interest plate fees supposedly go to the state Treasury. I don't see anything saying the organization gets a cut. So maybe what these organizations are getting from these plates is awareness and lobbying power. Still not bad things to have.

I have read a lot of this and there is a lot of bickering going on with nothing being accomplished.First you should at least give heather(K9crazy) some praise for at least having a debate with you.She is working hard to save something she cares about.I think everyone on here could devote a little bit of time in there local area to help keep that area open.If I'm not mistaken SFWDA is not a company with an office where people work on these problems all day they are doing this in there spare time voluntarily.Can more be done? Yes.Can it be done with the same amount of people currently volunteering there?NO.If you want to change things,then get involved.Not by debating on a forum but by joining your local club,running for an office in southern,volunteer your time,take on one of these projects you suggest.I'm sure anything you want to do to help this sport will be met with praise.I guess I'm just trying to say if everybody in this sport would devote the time your spending on here to getting something done at any park anywhere with any offroad orginazation we might not be in the situation we are in.Talk is cheap and as far as I can see Heather is one of the few on here who is at least doing somthing besides talking about what shes gonna,woulda,shoulda,coulda done.

I hate to be the downer on this

seriously, because this is all I see out of you nowadays.

edit: I've put in a request for a Treasurer's report. It might take some time to put together but I'm hoping it can answer some of these reoccuring questions.

I guess I'm just trying to say if everybody in this sport would devote the time your spending on here to getting something done at any park anywhere with any offroad orginazation we might not be in the situation we are in.Talk is cheap and as far as I can see Heather is one of the few on here who is at least doing somthing besides talking about what shes gonna,woulda,shoulda,coulda done.

X2! But I guess that would require people getting off thier @$$. Too many people live in Pirate world and think they just have to send an email to make things right.

X2! But I guess that would require people getting off thier @$$. Too many people live in Pirate world and think they just have to send an email to make things right.

...Didn't mean to resurrect a shit storm here. Before the tempers start flaring, keep in mind that most of these posts are from April or before. My intent was to try to do something positive and try to get the plate thing going, if it's not already, or just do something that can help the cause. If SFWDA is undermanned, then let's get more people involved.

More than the entities that are being sued if you want even a chance to win.

just to correct your formula, $15 of that $40 goes/went to UFWDA. Also, where do you think the money came from for the Caliber study that is in the hands of the congressmen? There's a lot you are forgetting that happened this year.

To be honest, I don't personally know. I do know you have to pay them for their time, paperwork and presence in the courtroom. That means all the research they'll need, time to review it and build a case, all the necessary legal paperwork by them and their office and then time in court plus court fees. It can really add up.

I understand that but how much does a lawsuit cost?I'm not trying to be a smartass, I'm really serious.

this one is likely to cost upwards of 100k if southern cant find some pro-bono or reduced rate help.

im back in a strong southern club after a few years out of the sport. i'll withhold judgment until i know more about what's going on, but the attitude and tone is different than it was a few years ago. it's like members have given up on the southern agenda i remember from a few years ago - everyone wants to wheel on private land. they feel like the greenies and the government has won. i believe southern is fighting the good fight regarding public land, especially tellico, because it is precedent setting. i just wonder if the at-large membership is on board with their focus.

i think all this stems from a communication problem. southern members need to go to the quarterly meetings. they need to get involved, listen, and vote.

but, as i said before, i'm withholding judgment until i can get more involved and learn more.

fwiw, my first trail ride, and the event that got me hooked on the sport, was at a southern quarterly meeting. i hope my kids and other people new to the sport can have the same experience i did.

I support SFWDA and every other organization because I can't afford not to. I donate because I don't have time to do the work.

I love our sport, and I'll fight for the place you love to ride most, and you should do the same for me and others. When (not if) they try to shut down Windrock/Coal Creek, I'll support any group that defends it too.

Our opposition knows how to divide and conquer, and hides behind a theme of clean water, protecting animals, and outdoor life when that is NOT their true agenda.

We must all support every fight, or the closures will come faster.

Has any progress been made on these plates? I see the TU plates around Atlanta every day and I think about this. SFWDA is forfeiting tons of potential revenue here. I would love to buy two of them when I renew the tags on my rig and tow rig next month. Plus I'm sure half of the guys who drive pickups in rural areas would spring for the tag even if they have never heard of SFWDA.

If it's a tough process, I will help in any way needed.

Stop a TU tag guy, and tell them that TU shuts down off-road trails and they are STUNNED at their own IGNORANCE.

The SFWDA does nothing for any area except Tellico and that hurts them.It would look alot better if they actully had a plan for maintaining trails,instead of doing what the FS tells them to do.They have no plan for maintaining trails in the southeast and its biting us in the ass,if the SFWDA could show other areas that are a success they might listen.I am pretty negative about this situation and I should be ,because its a bad situation for all of us to be in and its not getting better.

Have you seen the Caliber Trail Repair and Maintenance Plan? (I might have the title wrong - but that is the jist of it.) What about it?

The trails don't belong to SFWDA - they belong to the gov't and overseen by the USFS - so - SFWDA has to work within guidelines set by the USFS. If SFWDA just showed up and started moving dirt, grading, stacking stones, etc I bet the USFS and many other orgs would be raising cane.

Im talking about areas outside of national forest.

I wish you would have said that to begin with.

So please correct me here but I am trying to interpret what you have been saying all across Pirate.

Do you think that SFWDA should put its resources into maintaining trails outside of USFS land? Would that then mean you want SFWDA to put its money into maintaining private lands? Again, I'm just trying to understand what you are trying to say here and I'm having one heck of a tough time. I do understand you are frustrated but outside of that I can't follow ya.

When you say they don't have a plan what are you specifically saying? They have the Caliber report. The USFS's own organization called Trails Unlimited has said the trails can be maintained. Maintaining trails is not rocket science. BMPs can be used in some locations and in others you have to modify BMPs. What SFWDA needs is resources and these resources include volunteer manpower, donated resources, and funding for where these resources are not free.

For as small as SFWDA is in the grand scheme of things I don't see how they could spread out to too many other wheeling locations without being too thin to be effective.

The SFWDA use pirvate lands to raise money,why shouldnt they help maintain them and when they have an event there usually the owners dont even get the full amount they charge for a daily pass.The SFWDA needs a BIG PICTURE maintenence plan for the whole region,you know the southeast.If the SFWDA did care about the whole region and not just Tellico I'd join tomorrow.

The SFWDA use pirvate lands to raise money,why shouldnt they help maintain them and when they have an event there usually the owners dont even get the full amount they charge for a daily pass.The SFWDA needs a BIG PICTURE maintenence plan for the whole region,you know the southeast.If the SFWDA did care about the whole region and not just Tellico I'd join tomorrow.

We will pass your concerns on to the Regional Maintenance Planning subcommittee. Tehy will get with their engineering staff and start by spending 40 hours or so trying to identify a responsive POC for each OHV area through the appointed representative of SFWDA in each state. As the POCs are identified, we will have the CPA staff conduct an evaluation of their business plan and look for opportunities for SFWDA to help through the staff business planning team. Once that is done, we will have our team of lawyers draw up a contract for the OHV area owner to review and sign.

Rockcrawl, are you DENSE? There's not enough of SFWDA to undertake this kind of effort! How complex is that concept? It seems to be beyond your grapsp since you keep posting assertions about SFWDA should do this and SFWDA should do that and you will support them if they do this or that. SFWDA is YOU.

Get off your ass and get involved.

http://www.rocketcityrockcrawlers.com/images/getinvolved.jpg

The SFWDA needs a BIG PICTURE maintenence plan for the whole region,you know the southeast.If the SFWDA did care about the whole region and not just Tellico I'd join tomorrow.
In other words; until SFWDA does EVERYTHING, you ain't doin' NOTHING. :homer: :homer:

We will pass your concerns on to the Regional Maintenance Planning subcommittee. Tehy will get with their engineering staff and start by spending 40 hours or so trying to identify a responsive POC for each OHV area through the appointed representative of SFWDA in each state. As the POCs are identified, we will have the CPA staff conduct an evaluation of their business plan and look for opportunities for SFWDA to help through the staff business planning team. Once that is done, we will have our team of lawyers draw up a contract for the OHV area owner to review and sign.

Rockcrawl, are you DENSE? There's not enough of SFWDA to undertake this kind of effort! How complex is that concept? It seems to be beyond your grapsp since you keep posting assertions about SFWDA should do this and SFWDA should do that and you will support them if they do this or that. SFWDA is YOU.

Get off your ass and get involved.

http://www.rocketcityrockcrawlers.com/images/getinvolved.jpg

wow for them to be so small they seem to have alot of committees,lawers and other crap :D

I just stumbled upon this and am shaking my head reading it...

all I can say is thanks to Heather, and all of the other SFWDA board members, and everyone else who is ACTING to fight the good fight, and work towards maintaining our public lands access...

all of the work you do is appreciated and win lose or draw, your efforts are NOT going unnoticed :)