The office next door has a Model T parked outside, I noticed the front suspension on those things is constructed of a single inverted leaf spring that runs parallel to, and on top of the front axle, with a triangulated arm locating the axle. This design is very simple and looks as though it may work well. I have seen one photo on here of a design like that, but it didn't function properly.

This setup would require a Central mount under the radiator for the leaf, plus a triangulated control arm that has clearance for the front driveshaft.

My question is could this handle the forces of a drive axle and would it FLEX?

Here are some pics for reference.
http://www.mtfca.com/gallery/photos/weis.jpg

http://www.mtfca.com/gallery/photos/keyzer.jpg

http://www.mtfca.com/gallery/photos/KHill-L.jpg

Also note that all of the steering arms are behind the front axle, which would be a nice feature to have.

It has been done on the Twister in AZ a while back. I was contemplating doing the same thing, but finally figured the truck would be too soft. You would ahve NO lateral control of your rig, and you wuld be flopping all over the place. FYI, Vettes have this same setup on their cars, but they are running a massive anti sway bar. Good luck

Dimitri

Originally posted by Daniel
unimog rears

I thought you might notice that 6x4 or 6x2 or whatever the heck that thing is up there with skis on it. I think the front axle is powered and the rear is just attached with the track.

there is a SRC (http://www.sierrarockcrawlers.com) guy that did this

Originally posted by Spank
I noticed the front suspension on those things is constructed of a single inverted leaf spring that runs parallel to, and on top of the front axle

I've seen this done on small "gopher" carts on campus, but with an IFS front end. I always wondered if that might not be a decent and relatively cheap IFS upgrade. Find a way to link the travel between the left and right arms, and you could even make the non-flex side be forced to droop (making it semi-I FS). Make the central spring mount rotate on a heavy bearing, so the rotation axis is front to back...hhhmmm...

i think it flexes ok, but im not sure you tell me
http://www.sierrarockcrawlers.com/images2/0611.jpg

not mine so dont ask me anything about, http://www.sierrarockcrawlers.com/main2.html

Ben

That thing doesn't look to safe, except for it the thing is at max flex. There doesn't seem to be a way to hold the cab level while there isn't any flex. Looks like the cab would just flop to the side.

that pic is stupid. Look at the spring, it's not even flexed!! They built a pivot point where it mounts to the chassis. That is the same thing as building a huge hinge, and just attaching that to the axle housing, so it can articulate like 45 deg. There is no resistance from the spring, so no real suspension there. And I don't even see any control arms, which would make it rediculous to drive. Maybe they were not done at that point, and just wanted to see how far it would go.

That is not any guy that is part of our club, but he is a friend of some people in the cluib. The story I heard last is the thing did not have any laterla control, so he went to a defferent setup. If it was me, I would not do it for anything.

Dimitri

not tryin to start a war here , anyone remember some one in AZ with a buggy called twister, he ran a setup like this and it looked as if it worked great

ben

The VW Iltis (http://www.iltis.ca/Pictures/IltisCutAway.jpg) use that same style of tranverse mounted leaf spring front and rear, it's not on a solid axle though. It's a military use vehicle too, Germany, Canada, and a few other countries use it so I guess it works ok.

This is an Iltis, yup a VW 4x4... not a syncro a real 4x4! :confused:
The thing has a 156 crawl ratio too!
http://www.fastforward.ca/Vehicles/sm_Iltis_2.jpg

nice very nice!!! :smokin:

Originally posted by Ben Holloway
i think it flexes ok, but im not sure you tell me
http://www.sierrarockcrawlers.com/images2/0611.jpg

not mine so dont ask me anything about, http://www.sierrarockcrawlers.com/main2.html

Ben

You know, past experience tells me you'll get flex to a point of diminishing returns... Sometimes it's nice to have a 4x4 that'll lift a tire and plant the other harder... I mean, being able to rotate one axle 90 degrees from the other is nice... But why? How much traction will you have and why do you need that much flex? Will you be able to control something that has such a wildly soft suspension?

ive thought about this too... the really cool ones have an inverted mounted leaf spring attached to the frame (at the center) and then the eyes of that spring are attached to the eyes of another, correctly mounted spring where the center of it attaches to the axle.

flex out the wazoo? hell yes.

controllable? hell no.

useful? hell no.

so IMO do it if you want, but i dont see it being a very good suspension to have off road. the spring rate will only be truly in effect in vertical suspension motion, as soon as you try to flex it you lose all damping ability.

The link design can work, I know several rigs doing it- I would not recommend for the rear of a comp rig though- a well designed 4 bar gives more bite etc. I've seen the rear axle walk right under a rig with a poorly designed wishbone setup.

Can the transverse leaf thing, most designs make a ramp champ that is junk on the trail. Easier to work with coils and get better handling.

The guy with the twister eventually got rid of the transverse leaf and went with coil springs .... this was quite a few years ago. who knows what he's running now.

- jack

http://www.sierrarockcrawlers.com/albums/album02/DSC00226.sized.jpg
http://www.sierrarockcrawlers.com/albums/album02/DSC00227.sized.jpg
http://www.sierrarockcrawlers.com/albums/album02/DSC00229.sized.jpg

http://www.sierrarockcrawlers.com/albums/album02/DSC00236.sized.jpg

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=159364

3 year old thread. nice pull

without the air bags it would suck, no down force on the tire. looks like hybridpos has it figured out.

http://www.sierrarockcrawlers.com/albums/album02/DSC00226.sized.jpg
http://www.sierrarockcrawlers.com/albums/album02/DSC00227.sized.jpg
http://www.sierrarockcrawlers.com/albums/album02/DSC00229.sized.jpg


wasnt that thing in the TTC a couple years back

Obviously this system was designed to articulate through the types of road conditions they had at the time, I've seen vintage footage of Model T's going through all types of unimproved roads with ruts and whatnot and the flex the suspension displayed was unbelievable. I thought that these cars were going to topple at some of the angles they approached and departed from but they didn't. The spring rates that were engineered for the weight of the vehicle kept the cars bouncing somewhat, but if I recall they did not use shocks. I'm sure with the correct shock valving this type of suspension can be tuned for more control.

most used shocks,but they were a mechanical clutch type scissor action deal.they tend to fade from heat fairly quickly.

russ hogan in disney runs a setup kind like that in the rear of his 5 seater buggy, its got mogs with torque tube, a leaf spring across the rear, for side to side stability, and a small single airbag for height.

kolby

russ hogan in disney runs a setup kind like that in the rear of his 5 seater buggy, its got mogs with torque tube, a leaf spring across the rear, for side to side stability, and a small single airbag for height.

kolby

Does anyone have links for pics and info on Russ Hogans rig?
Thanks.

jerry, is that you? when are ya'll riding again?
the setup seems like it would work best with the airbags, no doubt.