So, my frame is very dented on the bottom. I welded on some plate in spots down below. Instead of solving the issue, the frame is now "bowing" under the pressure. So instead of the bottom denting the side is bowing outword. If that makes sense.

I know that I should be more careful, but that ain't going to happen. It's getting to the point I really need to solve it. So here is my idea and I would really like imput. Cut the bottom off the frame along the belly. The whole way down. Then "fill" it with 3/16 C channel. Drill holes all along the outside and inside of the frame along the botom and plug weld in the C channel as well as the base of course.

It will be a lot of work, but I think when I am finished is should stop the problem and not take away any ground clearance. May even save a tiny bit. What say the PBB?

Its not just from the welding contraction is it?

C channel may work but would not provide alot of reach up the frame section. Maybe a length of 2x4x3/16" (or whatever size fits best) and cut one short side off. Then drill holes for plug welding later. Slide section over frame and weld it up.

Its not just from the welding contraction is it?

Uh, no. It's a good thought but if you saw my frame you would have to laugh. I have baseball sized dents in the portions I didn't plate.

C channel may work but would not provide alot of reach up the frame section. Maybe a length of 2x4x3/16" (or whatever size fits best) and cut one short side off. Then drill holes for plug welding later. Slide section over frame and weld it up.

Thats an idea, but it would have to be inside the frame as the transfer mount and link mounts would give me too much to avoid. I think the c channel is 1.5 up the side so it may provide the same affect.

you guys are talking some heavy stuff there....

The real, right way to solve it: replace it with round tubing. If it still gets dented, slit the next size up along its length and reinforce the bottom.

The realistic way to solve it: plastic. Extend (or make) your belly pan under the frame.Use HDPE or UHMW at least 1/2" thick...It only needs minor reinforcement in insupported areas, and it will definitely protect your frame. I have HDPE (much cheaper than UHMW) on my boat sides, and it has taken some serious abuse with only minor scratches. Eventually I plan to do just what I'm recommending here, because my frame is doing the same thing as yours.

you guys are talking some heavy stuff there....

The real, right way to solve it: replace it with round tubing. If it still gets dented, slit the next size up along its length and reinforce the bottom.

The realistic way to solve it: plastic. Extend (or make) your belly pan under the frame.Use HDPE or UHMW at least 1/2" thick...It only needs minor reinforcement in insupported areas, and it will definitely protect your frame. I have HDPE (much cheaper than UHMW) on my boat sides, and it has taken some serious abuse with only minor scratches. Eventually I plan to do just what I'm recommending here, because my frame is doing the same thing as yours.

I have a 1/4in al belly pan over the plateing and it is still happening. I don't think plastic will make much difference as the sides are bending now.

Start cutting and make with the tube work.

If its anything like mine, and the other Rover boys I wheel with, its from about the rear of the transfer back that there are dints. I say fark off the chassis from there back and tube it. You coud step down from the OEM chassis with rectangular section down to 32nb tube and save on weight and get some huge gains in ground clearance.

When you have fixed the frame rails, make a new belly pan out of Domex or equivalent brand hardened steel plate.

I have 3mm under my lightweight comp Zuk and it doesn't dent. I have gotten into the habit of deliberately hight centering it on rocks to be able to turn it around on a dime without reversing. 6mm (~1/4") should be more than enough for a heavy rig. Cut, folded and welded Domex is also excellent for sill protection.

You can't bend this stuff but you can shape it by cutting almost through with an angle grinder and welding in the new form. Make sure to fold it around the outside edges of the frame rails with this method. And turn up front and rear edges slightly for stiffness.

I have a big plate waiting for the Defender 110 but haven't gotten around to doing it yet.

What about alluminum c channel? light, strong, then just bolt it on every 6 inches or so...

Start cutting and make with the tube work.

If its anything like mine, and the other Rover boys I wheel with, its from about the rear of the transfer back that there are dints. I say fark off the chassis from there back and tube it. You coud step down from the OEM chassis with rectangular section down to 32nb tube and save on weight and get some huge gains in ground clearance.

Good idea, but I already did it several years ago.

When you have fixed the frame rails, make a new belly pan out of Domex or equivalent brand hardened steel plate.

I have 3mm under my lightweight comp Zuk and it doesn't dent. I have gotten into the habit of deliberately hight centering it on rocks to be able to turn it around on a dime without reversing. 6mm (~1/4") should be more than enough for a heavy rig. Cut, folded and welded Domex is also excellent for sill protection.

You can't bend this stuff but you can shape it by cutting almost through with an angle grinder and welding in the new form. Make sure to fold it around the outside edges of the frame rails with this method. And turn up front and rear edges slightly for stiffness.

I have a big plate waiting for the Defender 110 but haven't gotten around to doing it yet.

My skid plate really isn't the issue though. It stands up well to all the abuse. The frame is what is going. I am hitting it so hard that it dents through the skid plate and bows the frame. The skid plate stays mostly straight, but the frame is toast. I am thinking about making a new skid when all is said and done so I will look into this for sure. But I still need to find a way to protect the frame.

What about alluminum c channel? light, strong, then just bolt it on every 6 inches or so...

I am not sure that would solve the bending frame. Maybe. I will noodle it. just noodled it, won't work. :flipoff2: Bolt holes would elongate and the frame bends under the al.

I have a 1/4in al belly pan over the plateing and it is still happening. I don't think plastic will make much difference as the sides are bending now.

I think you would be surprised how well it works. The plastic deforms momentarily at the moment of impact to absorb some of the shock. any kind of metal will simply transfer it to points above.

My frame has the same issues...the rear trail links and front radius arm "ears" are out of whack too...

What you are saying is what I'm thinking about, PLUS the UHMP sheet across the whole bottom including the chassis...

BUT, the more I think about it, the less I want to do it, and the more I want to go full board into a tube chassis...

So my 2 cents here is: tube it out, and you will gain a lot in weight savings...might put the truck out of commission for a longer period of time and cost more $ than you have planned for though...

I think you would be surprised how well it works. The plastic deforms momentarily at the moment of impact to absorb some of the shock. any kind of metal will simply transfer it to points above.

That makes some sense. Actually a lot of sense. I will look into it. I would rather not lose the ground clearance though. How bad does it snag rocks?

My frame has the same issues...the rear trail links and front radius arm "ears" are out of whack too...

What you are saying is what I'm thinking about, PLUS the UHMP sheet across the whole bottom including the chassis...

BUT, the more I think about it, the less I want to do it, and the more I want to go full board into a tube chassis...

So my 2 cents here is: tube it out, and you will gain a lot in weight savings...might put the truck out of commission for a longer period of time and cost more $ than you have planned for though...

Honestly, there is no way I will ever tube this truck. The weight savings would be 300lb at the very most. Probably less. And this truck wheels better than most buggies I have seen. I don't want to sound arrogant or anything like that, but it wheels so well I am even hesitant to raise my links an inch. I just can't imagine what good it would do for me. I would keep the same engine, so I wouldn't be able to lower the seats very much. I would want it to look like a Defender, so I wouldn't be able to change much that way. I need a 4 seater, wouldn't be able to change that. Basically, I have a 4 seater that weighs 4000lb with an engine that weighs 300lb more than the Al V8. Since 4 seat buggies almost always end up in the 3,500 range, I would gain almost nothing, but potentially lose the reliability that took tons of mistakes to figure out. All for a little more bling. Nope.

That makes some sense. Actually a lot of sense. I will look into it. I would rather not lose the ground clearance though. How bad does it snag rocks?

That's the nice thing about the plastic. Its stealth! no grinding noises. it slides over rocks like its oiled... especially the expensive UHMW stuff. Just make sure you countersink your screws. Having hex heads hanging down below the plastic defeats the whole purpose... I have to cringe every time I see it.

That's the nice thing about the plastic. Its stealth! no grinding noises. it slides over rocks like its oiled... especially the expensive UHMW stuff. Just make sure you countersink your screws. Having hex heads hanging down below the plastic defeats the whole purpose... I have to cringe every time I see it.

Its really not *that* expensive when you add up metal, welding gas, spool, ect. So you think placing this under the frame bone stock would be okay? It's a lot easier than anything I had thought up. Where do you get the bigger sheets? Any other advice? This could work. Especially if I cut off a few more sections of the frame. I would only be giving up .25 of an inch under the frame but may even be losing weight. Now I'm interested!

You need to find an industrial plastics supply place. I'm sure there are several in your area...

advise--support the spans... you don't need much, but you do need something. I have a 1"x.060 framework spaced about 8 inches apart on my boatsides. seems to work ok.

make sure you attach the edges so it doesn't peel off... recess some nut plates into the frame and screw it in every foot or so. you don't need tons of screws.

beveling the leading and trailing edges may also be a good idea.

[QUOTE=Buckon37s;9805744] I will noodle it. just noodled it, won't work. :flipoff2: QUOTE]


You and your limp NOODLE! haha I bet you did DO IT!! :flipoff2:

There's a rig over here is Oz, a bushrangie, that uses the plastic sheeting and that stuff is the bomb. I remember watching it at Tuff Truck and it slides over the rock like a toboggan.

Here's a pic:

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r303/to_easy/tuff%20truck%2009/168.jpg

You can see the black plastic underneath where the links are. not sure if its all the way under but the sides definitely are.

Take a look at how Slick-rock sliders mount to the sill, and replicate that, but make it wrap the frame, do it out of 3/16" and you're golden. It'll weight maybe 100lbs, no big deal on a Rover based buggy, and it's down low.

Plastic slides nice and easy, but still needs to be backed by something stiff as it flexes pretty good, so it will slow the mangling of the frame, but the frame will still get mangled.

I would plate both sides with 1/8th or 3/16ths x 3in strap steel (welding to the bottom 3/16th plate) and every foot or so drill out and run a sleeve with a bolt with a big ass washer on either side. I am guessing it is only in the center that is is being dented so it won't add that much weight.

Buy another frame for when this one wears out!

I recently bought an entire truck to replace one that was worn (rusted) out.

Compared to the investment you've already made, having a spare frame isn't that far out of the realm of possibility and reasonableness.

Last week, I had a Disco on the lift where the frame was nearly collapsed. The owner wasn't the least bit concerned about it!

its a bit more complex when only 4 feet of the stock frame remains.

its a bit more complex when only 4 feet of the stock frame remains.

I disagree. It was made once, it can be made once again.

If the frame is sufficiently strong to endure almost everything that is thrown at it, if one throws something at it which it can't endure and making it endure that situation is not attractive, be prepared with a spare.

I thought of you last Tuesday when I was at the Rosemont Horizon re-living my youth.

I know where theres a d90 frame! :flipoff2:


Why dont you fill it up with sand?

It works on the harbor freight tube kinker....:massey:

that will just give it prettier dents and bends :flipoff2:

Take a look at how Slick-rock sliders mount to the sill, and replicate that, but make it wrap the frame, do it out of 3/16" and you're golden. It'll weight maybe 100lbs, no big deal on a Rover based buggy, and it's down low.

Plastic slides nice and easy, but still needs to be backed by something stiff as it flexes pretty good, so it will slow the mangling of the frame, but the frame will still get mangled.

100 LB is a HUGE deal on a 4k truck that has the springs and shocks tuned perfectly. Good ideas though, I would just like to keep the weight down.

I would plate both sides with 1/8th or 3/16ths x 3in strap steel (welding to the bottom 3/16th plate) and every foot or so drill out and run a sleeve with a bolt with a big ass washer on either side. I am guessing it is only in the center that is is being dented so it won't add that much weight.

That could work. I would still cut the frame off the bottom to save the weight, then run 3/16 bottom and the straps. Or maybe start with the plastic and see if it works like Darkstar said it does and go from there.

I disagree. It was made once, it can be made once again.

If the frame is sufficiently strong to endure almost everything that is thrown at it, if one throws something at it which it can't endure and making it endure that situation is not attractive, be prepared with a spare.

I thought of you last Tuesday when I was at the Rosemont Horizon re-living my youth.

Your crazy. :rasta:

If you even knew 1 50th of the modifications I have made to that frame you wouldn't even consider that.

Your crazy. :rasta:

If you even knew 1 50th of the modifications I have made to that frame you wouldn't even consider that.

You did it once...

There comes a point where you are polishing a turd and it's better off getting another turd to polish.

You did it once...

There comes a point where you are polishing a turd and it's better off getting another turd to polish.

I take back my crazy statement. Your bat-shit crazy. :flipoff2:

That took me forever. I have no desire on this earth to do it again. Me thinks I best protect the frame now.

I buy HDPE in 4x8 sheets from GE Polymer Shapes in Atlanta 770.948.6910 they have branches all over the US. 3/8" runs about $150 for 'C-Teak' which is UV rated and has a really good melting point and is very easy to machine. The only drawback is that there is no chemical fastener for HDPE ,only mechanical means. 3/8" is fairly light compared to say 3/4" which starts to get pretty pricy and heavy.

That could work. I would still cut the frame off the bottom to save the weight, then run 3/16 bottom and the straps. Or maybe start with the plastic and see if it works like Darkstar said it does and go from there.


I would not cut the bottom out. The botton is strong (because of the rounded corners) and does not weigh much being 14 gauge. I think you would be back to square 1 if you cut the bottom out. Just weld strap to either side and you should be fine. I did this on a series truck where the rust started to eat the bottom and it was solid as a rock when I was done. If you did not live in the desert, I would also pump some rust inhibitor in there as all those layers of steel will want to rust.

I take back my crazy statement. Your bat-shit crazy. :flipoff2:


I could well be.

I went back and re-read your initial post. I like the idea of filling the bottom of the frame with 3/16" C-channel. Sounds like it would work and gives you the opportunity to narrow the frame as well to gain a tiny bit of clearance.

I wonder if adding some crush tubes and nuts/bolts (or nuts/screws for a bolt) to maintain the walls of the frame from both expanding and crushing might not be a worthy idea as well.

100 LB is a HUGE deal on a 4k truck that has the springs and shocks tuned perfectly. Good ideas though, I would just like to keep the weight down.

Actually looking at my frame, which I know is longer than yours, plating the center section wouldn't use nearly 100lbs of 3/16, and you'd be done once and for all. Only way to not add weight is to replace stock frame, with stock frame, then do it all again when it's back to mangled. You don't need to run solid plate all the way up the sides, drill a 3" hole every 5 inches, the solid piece on the bottom would be under 10lbs, and maybe 8lbs per side plate, so more like 50ish in total added weight. A 1.2% increase in weight (all concentrated in the center of the wheel-base, and down low) on a 4k pound truck, not even close to enough to require revalving the shocks. Anything you do with plastic skids is going to increase the weight just as much, if not more because the plastic needs some decent structure behind it.

Okay,

So I think I know what I am going to do. I can cut more frame away near the back if I make the angle up to the tube in the rear more gradual. This will take the last bit of rear frame up above my rear links earlier and should prevent the frame from getting hit, at least make it rare.

I am going to run 1/8x3 strap with large holes all welded down the sides to the bottom. I think that this will prevent the frame from bowing. I got to thinking that the bottom denting doesn't really bother me, but the sides does. Anyway, from there I am going to dump the AL skidplate and go plastic 1/2 like Darkstar said. I think that with the crossmember I built for the transmission, I will have to brace very little. Also, I don't care if it flexes as there is a way to go before it hits anything. I figure that with the plastic and the side reinforcement, the bottom will stay well protected. I eventually have to redue my link mounts too as they are BEAT, but thats another story. To do this I have to dump the t-case drum break though. I may fab up something kinda cool that bouncing around my head, but untill then, who needs an e-break anyway?

Any objections?

Okay,

So I think I know what I am going to do. I can cut more frame away near the back if I make the angle up to the tube in the rear more gradual. This will take the last bit of rear frame up above my rear links earlier and should prevent the frame from getting hit, at least make it rare.

I am going to run 1/8x3 strap with large holes all welded down the sides to the bottom. I think that this will prevent the frame from bowing. I got to thinking that the bottom denting doesn't really bother me, but the sides does. Anyway, from there I am going to dump the AL skidplate and go plastic 1/2 like Darkstar said. I think that with the crossmember I built for the transmission, I will have to brace very little. Also, I don't care if it flexes as there is a way to go before it hits anything. I figure that with the plastic and the side reinforcement, the bottom will stay well protected. I eventually have to redue my link mounts too as they are BEAT, but thats another story. To do this I have to dump the t-case drum break though. I may fab up something kinda cool that bouncing around my head, but untill then, who needs an e-break anyway?

Any objections?


I OBJECT!:flipoff2:

I object too. if you don't reinforce the plastic it will either break, or flex enough to A. break the screws or B. tear around the screws. It must be supported.

I object too. if you don't reinforce the plastic it will either break, or flex enough to A. break the screws or B. tear around the screws. It must be supported.

I said brace it very little, not that it wouldn't be braced. If I run just two pieces of square tubing across the frame the biggest gap would be 8in.

I will take the e-brake complete if you are parting ways with it.

Ron

I will take the e-brake complete if you are parting ways with it.

Ron

Make me an offer! :D

I said brace it very little, not that it wouldn't be braced. If I run just two pieces of square tubing across the frame the biggest gap would be 8in.

that sounds like it will work

that sounds like it will work

Well if it doesn't, I will blame you!! :flipoff2:

you could look into the X brake which is a disk conversion and it might be more compact, or find another cable actuated parking brake caliper and have a small disk and mount machined for it.

If you don't tie the inside side of the frame to the outside side of the frame internally it will still bow out. In the middle of the holes you are making in the reinforcing strap, bore a hole through the frame and weld a tube in to tie both sides of the box together. :beer:

I wonder if you ever considered Rockware frame sliders that bolt on I believe and protect the frame rails and suspension mounts. you can also get cat protector.

Ed

I wonder if you ever considered Rockware frame sliders that bolt on I believe and protect the frame rails and suspension mounts. you can also get cat protector.

Ed

Sweet. I hadn't thought about the Rockware option. I know that I really need to protect my cat. I worry about that about as much as I worry about my muffler, distributor cap, and ecu.













:flipoff2:

I make my own frame sliders that I stitch weld to the frame from 3/16" 3.5" box tubing that I split in half.

Sweet. I hadn't thought about the Rockware option. I know that I really need to protect my cat. I worry about that about as much as I worry about my muffler, distributor cap, and ecu.













:flipoff2:

And don't forget about your sparkplugs:D

I think your idea is a good one - even if it is a rip-off of all of our ideas:flipoff2:

Make with some pics of how damaged it is now and some progress pics along the way, please.