There has been talk about possibly starting a rockcrawling (yes, we have them in missouri) association here in Missouri, but I had a few questions. Maybe some of you guys could help me answer.

1. How many "obstacles" are there per event? I've seen the vids from Flash Videos, but it's hard to tell what is what. Do they have like 3-4 courses per day or what? I've not been to an event personally, so that's why I'm asking here.

Okay, so that's the main question i have for now.

My idea was to use UROC/ERoCC rules and point system (though it's still up in the air) so that people from ERoCC (which most are fairly close) could compete with no problems. This includes the legends and unlimited classes, etc.

Would you guys show up? I know some of you went to ProRock in Attica, so I'm hoping you'd show up here if possible.

I doubt many of the ERocC folks are going to answer you today. They should be on the road to TN right now :) I believe it's 12 courses down there. This last event, they split the group in 2 one group ran the first 6, the other the last 6. They swapped courses for Sun. It was pretty slow going and I'd like to see them split into 4 groups, it'd keep the action going. Breakdowns cause some pretty good delays at times.

As far as coming to Misery, I'd think a fair amount of them would probably show. You'd probably pull folks from the CO area as well. I'll be competing in ERocC next year and would consider coming out to an event if it's as much of a class act as ERocC. To be honest, I'd like to see ERocC become a multi-venue event. Something like- Jellico, Badlands, Paragon, Possibly you folks.

Easy

I don't know that they would come from Tennessee. That's the point of having erocc, closer venues. You would probably get some guys to come up from OK and TX though....that would be a pretty good draw right there. Then you could hold some events in those states as well.

I'm 2 hrs form Branson and I love to see some comps closer to home- got a lot of miles on my tow rig. 3 out of 4 of the Pro Rock events have been decent- I did not make Attica due to biz reasons. They use 7 events per day. If you're serious you need to go to some events, help, watch, ask lots of questions- you'll learn plenty. Other comps I've been to in farmington use 7 and 7 too.
Ken Blume
479 636 4669

ProRock Attica actually used 8 stages each day - lower class ran first, chased by the open class.

At a certain point competitions become a matter of which series you choose to follow. I would love to see ERoCC grow to hit different locations, they seem to have a good reputation. Adding in another series entirely means competitors may need to choose between one and another...you may drive yourself into only local entrants that way, as the big travellers/big names get picky about where they compete or what bodies they compete under.

And travel is a big deal, as mentioned. Were ERoCC to host at Attica (with their reasonable fee) I would enter. I did not enter ProRock because the fee was more than I wanted to stomach for my first comp. Attica is 6 hours for me, Jellico is 12, most of MO is likewise in the 10-14 range.

Mumblings from a competitor wannabe... :D

I don't know if they will branch away from Jellico or not simply because they have access to that land anytime they want. The land they use for the event is only run during comps. Between comps trailkeepers can go in and change things around to the way they want them. If they move from Jellico it would make it alot herder for them to have the courses setup the way they like.

I think you're starting off on the right track, but in order for this to be successful, you're going to need direct involvement from folks who have done this before.

For example, before the Mid-Missouri Off-Roaders sanctioned our first mud race, several of our members had previously competed with Missouri Mud Racing Association, Ozark Mountain 4x4 Club, and NMRO. Several of us had also acted as officials with some or all of those groups as well.

The vast majority of our members were brand new to the sport. But, because we had a few "seasoned veterans", things went off much smoother than they could have. If you've got a group that's large enough & dedicated enough to make this happen, that's great. But, you've got to get some hands-on experience. If need be, pool some cash among the group & dedicate a couple of rigs to go compete at some of these other events. Have a car wash, bake sale, or whatever you need to do to raise the cash for entry fees & expenses, and then send these guys to get some hands-on experience. I think it'd be the best "first step" you could make.


TEX

TEX,
If you know of anyone in MMOR that would like to get in on the ground floor of this, please have them email me. We're hoping to have the rules and regs, as well as the bylaws done by early November.

Also any help you can offer would be greatly appreciated since your one of the grand-daddy's of offroad here in MO.

We've got the land to have the main events and we already have the rock course about 1/2 done.

We're hoping to have some of the more built rigs test some of the new stuff Sept 22nd. If anyone is interested in that, they can get signup info here --> Bisonfest info page (http://jeepthing.com/bisonfest2002.asp)

Thanks for everything TEX!

And thanks to everyone else for the suggestions.

:D

here ya go! 12 obstacles at EROCC. 6 on Saturday. 6 on Sunday. I also think one thing that has help EROCC with the spectators is the fact that all the obstacles are close together. Probably about 300 yards end to end. I'm sure one of the coordinators will reply late Sunday night.

The area we are using to start this is referred to as the Cave Area at OZ (sayersbrook bison ranch - oz.jeepthing.com - www.sayersbrook.com). This is private property.

The cave area is just a small part of OZ, but it's a huge collapsed Karst (huge cave cavern that caved in)... The area is about the size of about 20-30 football fields - it's about 100 acres. This once was a 50 acre cavern. There are over 100 outragiously dangerous, but doable, obstacle possibilities in there open to imaginative harvesting by our many knowledgable trail builders. (plug for all the folks that have been helping out ) :)

We've already got some pretty cool stuff in there, such as the Wall, Double Crossing, Tree Hugger Rock, the Turn-Table, the Rock Box, Bison Skull, and the Cave Challenge Area which is cadillac sized rocks just strewn about.

There is easy access, with areas for parking several hundred spectator vehicles (right there in the cave area on what we call the cave loop) - and this parking is all accessible even in the rain by a stock YJ. There is a very short walk from parking to all current obstacles, and future (already planned to be built) obstacles.

There are also killer facilities there, such as a 250 person pavilion on a mile long lake, bathrooms, primative camp grounds, store, repair shop ---- as well as some cool asthetic stuff like Bison, 100+ person theater, surrounded by National Forest, and a very very cool land owner family.

http://www.jeepthing.com/images/lakeview.jpg
Sayersbrook Lake Pavilion

http://oz.jeepthing.com/jambo2002/park2.JPG
Main Parking

http://www.jeepthing.com/jeepr/images/ozdcp01689.JPG
More Parking...

http://www.jeepthing.com/jeepr/images/build09021257.JPG
Chrispy's says DUH on the Wall..... :flipoff2:

wholey shet the turd is actually moving or is that where he broke?

UMM COOL!!!

Originally posted by JT

http://www.jeepthing.com/jeepr/images/build09021257.JPG
Chrispy's says DUH on the Wall..... :flipoff2:

Wow, Chrispy. That's a blast from the past. He ran our exhibition event in November of last year. Has he put a full cage in that thing yet?

Anyway, I would love to talk to you about what you guys have going on. PM me with your phone number.

Tim

btt

Originally posted by JT
TEX,
If you know of anyone in MMOR that would like to get in on the ground floor of this, please have them email me. We're hoping to have the rules and regs, as well as the bylaws done by early November.

JT, we might have 1-2 that would be real interested in talking to you. I'll see if I can get in touch with some folks, if nothing else I'll see them all at Marthasville on Saturday. Unfortunately, we've already had our meeting for September last night, so the club as a whole won't meet again until October 13.

TEX

I would make the trip from Indy it's no further than other travels I'm willing to make. Here's the catch, if you want a good show and a competitive event, call Tim (trailkeeper) before you do anything else. These guys put on the best show in this part of the country, and working WITH them would be a good way to build a foundation!

It would seem to me that a relationship with the sanctioning body (UROC) would be critical, just using their rules doesn't have enough value for me to compete. I've the same rumors or suggestions others have regarding the Erocc series considering additional venues. If a solid series with consitent guidelines and procedures was put together I would participate. Scheduling and volunteers is your biggest hurdle from my perspective. Make sure you find a slot 30 days from the Eroccs events, to give us time to recover and actually work, and rounding up the many volunteers needed and having time to educate/train them is a make or break task! Maybe even require them to work an Erocc event well in advance.

Of course this depends on the Trailkeepers and Erocc's, and Uroc to make this concept a reality. Good luck!

After looking around the area down by "Robert's Revenge" this past weekend, I'm not sure ERoCC needs to expand to a muti-venue series. Ask SpaceGhost, he saw the 360 degree panoramic view :eek: (coolest roll EVER!) They have so much terrain they can develop in Jellico it's mind boggling :eek:

I'm envisioning qualifying events for the ERoCC series in the future, maybe those would be regional events (similar to the route RCAA is taking). JROCC (Jellico Rock Obstacle Challenge Course) where the ERoCC series is held is such a great venue there really is no need to move away.

Thanks for another great event Trailkeeper's!!!

Originally posted by TrailKeeper


Wow, Chrispy. That's a blast from the past. He ran our exhibition event in November of last year. Has he put a full cage in that thing yet?

Anyway, I would love to talk to you about what you guys have going on. PM me with your phone number.

Tim


YOU GOT PM....

Originally posted by bigdude
After looking around the area down by "Robert's Revenge" this past weekend, I'm not sure ERoCC needs to expand to a muti-venue series. Ask SpaceGhost, he saw the 360 degree panoramic view :eek: (coolest roll EVER!) They have so much terrain they can develop in Jellico it's mind boggling :eek:

I'm envisioning qualifying events for the ERoCC series in the future, maybe those would be regional events (similar to the route RCAA is taking). JROCC (Jellico Rock Obstacle Challenge Course) where the ERoCC series is held is such a great venue there really is no need to move away.

Thanks for another great event Trailkeeper's!!!

I think MoROC will stand alone, with enough challenges to make erocc peeps shit their pants.... so it's no trip to me what they do...

It'd be nice to come together and network our comps though... for real....

I guess we'll see what happens...

Originally posted by JT


I think MoROC will stand alone, with enough challenges to make erocc peeps shit their pants.... so it's no trip to me what they do...



Well then, since your guessing we will deficate in our panties and you certainly don't need us at Buffalofest, I'll just go out to the SuperCrawl with the rest of the Champions from ALL the established events.

Big fish, little pond, comes to mind....................I almost forgot, Welcome NEWBIE :flipoff2:

just set it up on pro rocks dates, screw bob

Originally posted by JT
with enough challenges to make erocc peeps shit their pants.... so it's no trip to me what they do...

It'd be nice to come together and network our comps though... for real....

I guess we'll see what happens...

Can I get some of what this dumbass is smoking :rolleyes:

Here's a couple things you should realize dumbass newbie

1) Don't talk shit about an established series that is respected by the top competitors in the country

2) Talking shit about another series won't help to make ANYONE eager to "network" with you.


I guess I'll just keep spotting for the champions of other series because I wouldn't want to shit my pants at MOronRock:laughing:

Originally posted by bigdude



1) Don't talk shit about an established series that is respected by the top competitors in the country

2) Talking shit about another series won't help to make ANYONE eager to "network" with you.



I think you might be mistaking JT's enthusiasm for a potential new series as talking smack about an existing one. I've known JT for a long time & he's a very influential person in the 4x4 community (and especially the Jeep communtiy) in this area. He's done tons to get new trails opened, and closed trails reopened. Other than good-natured ribbing, I've never known him to "talk smack" about any respected individuals or groups. Granted, on this board, he's still a newbie, so he probably deserves one of these:

:flipoff2:

Aw hell, let's make it 2 :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

But, I don't think he meant any disrespect.



TEX

Bigdude is just a little touchy still,he had one helluva rough weekend!!!!Lets see how many events we can get on this side of the continent!!!!!!!!!!!!

JT's comments did sound a little off, I'm not surprised at the response he got.

About Erocc, what's it supposed to look like next yr?? Jellico is a 12 hr run for me but that will be better than what the other series require for travel. It's encouraging to see it off to a good start. will there be $$, sponsors, points, purse? Or are we looking at trophies? Yes, I've looked at the site and it does not say much about that. I realize its the first yr and they did a great job from all i've heard and read.

Don't get me wrong- I don't mind competing for a trophy, it's just how much money and time do you invest when a trophy and bragging rights is all you can hope for?

Originally posted by G02Guy
JT's comments did sound a little off, I'm not surprised at the response he got.


Yeah, he probably could have worded it better. I probably wouldn't have defended him if I had no idea who he was, but I have known him for a long time & he's done a lot of great things around here. And knowing him as I do, I'm sure he meant no harm.

TEX

Originally posted by G02Guy
will there be $$, sponsors, points, purse? Or are we looking at trophies?

Don't get me wrong- I don't mind competing for a trophy, it's just how much money and time do you invest when a trophy and bragging rights is all you can hope for?

You are not the only one wondering about all that. Hopefully we'll find out in the not so distant future from Trailkeeper or Jeepinchad on this BB.


I think it's safe to assume that good competitors will go wherever the money is.

I don't know what the payout was this time, but from what I heard, it was about $400 to win for the legends in July and about $850 or so in Unlimited. And it is growing fast. THey had about 2000 spectators in July and well over 2500 this time

Regarding the money, I think failing to adequately publicize the purse has hurt a lot of competition events over the years. Whatever you plan to do, you need to make it clear. If it's based on the number of entries, you can just publish the formula used to calculate the purse.

For example, for many of my mud racing classes, the purse is simply 100% of entry fees split among the top 4 drivers 40/30/20/10. Nobody knows the EXACT amount until race day. But, they all know how the purse will work. And they know that if it's an event that typically gets a lot of trucks, the purse will be good. If it's an event that does NOT get a lot of trucks, the purse won't be so good - OTOH, a small field means you've got a better shot at taking that purse ;)

TEX

HOLEY SHIT GUYS... I didn't mean it like that... sheesh - bad choice of words on my part.. I apologize..

All I meant is theres some scarry shit here too... would probably even be sufficient to entertain (IMHO) even seasoned rockcrawlers...

And I realize Erocc might already have too much going on to be very involved. If that is the case we could prolly go it alone, but it would be better to do this stuff together.

I certainly in no way meant any diss to any erocc guys or eroc or anyone else by that statement. Erocc is definately sweet... KUDOS to all the guys that work it...

Oh.. And someone said "just set it up on pro rocks dates, screw bob".... Bwahahaha!!!! no shit :)

:D

Trailkeeper:

yea, we had a blast in your exebition event, however realized that my widetrack rig would not be competitive without serious modifications. we garaged it and began disassembly of it when, due to the economy, i lost my job.

if you remember my spotter tho, he rolled his truck in moab, prompting some minor cutting and modifications, which will hopefully be competiting in all your events next year. this year was a wash as we both had other financial obligations...

6 months of unemployment has yeilded a debt load that will preclude jeep modificatiosn for some time to come. so for now, ill be spotting for Pauls rig, pictured below


http://chrispy.rockcrawler.com/pics/pauls/paul-6.JPG

http://chrispy.rockcrawler.com/pics/paul2/Jul14_30.JPG

Sweet homey rig..

I'm thinkin Pog will go far next year with that Chuggy...

Nice pics xpi!

JT you have a pm

ChrisPy,

Sorry to hear your Jeep is on the blocks, but glad to hear you are still involved. Are you helping get this new rock crawling event started, or did they just happen to pick a picture of you? Just wondering. JT and I have been playing phone tag, but I'm sure we will catch up with each other this weekend.

Tim

JT is the driving force behind MoRoc atm. he has asked for people to pick up the ball and run with it. JT (and many many others) were driving factors in getting both camp jeep and the jamboree here in the midwest, so im confident that this WILL happen.

I have no desire to get involved with the political bullcrap that goes on with setting up such an event, but have expressed interest in course design, site selection, rules, officiating, etc etc. so as this progresses, im sure ill be more and more involved.. as to why im in the picture? well, the Sayersbrook Bison Ranch, a private parcel of land they have been developing trails on has some serious potential for rockcrawling.... and that picture was taken during one of our trail building events down there.

ATM, JT is probably the best single point of contact for this thing. personally, id like to see it as an extension of Erocc, so that the Erocc circuit is not 'just' at Jelllico, but perhaps having an event in MO, OK, IND, etc to diversify, etc etc etc, but ATM, i think most of the MoRoc supporters are wanting to retain controll rather than merge with someone else. who knows how it will end up.


...

oh. and yes.. i do have most of a full cage fabbed up for my scramber :) as finances improve, that project will finish up.

Originally posted by ChrisPy
i think most of the MoRoc supporters are wanting to retain controll rather than merge with someone else.

What benefit would that give them??? (seriously) The only thing I can think of is that they would want to make money and turn a profit, instead of donating all the money like the Trailkeepers group does from ERoCC. Just an honest question if anyone would care to respond.

Originally posted by bigdude


What benefit would that give them??? (seriously) The only thing I can think of is that they would want to make money and turn a profit, instead of donating all the money like the Trailkeepers group does from ERoCC. Just an honest question if anyone would care to respond.

I'm guessing it's just like any other group. You started it, so you'd like to control its fate, so to speak. The other thing would be that as an extension of another group, you're limited in all kinds of things including scheduling your events.

Take my GUMBO Mud Races. I TRY to avoid conflict with other groups, including NMRO & anything local. But, when dates become scarce, I'm not tied to anyone else & CAN have an event anytime I want.

The other thing is that they could very well be looking to make this a profitable venture, especially given that it's taking place on private property - at least at one venue.


TEX

A couple quick notes... Nothing set in stone....

MoROC has to remain NFP. The only people making profits will be competitors in the way of payouts. The goal of MoROC will be to provide Rockcrawling and Off Road Competitions as the name states. All funding made by MoROC will have to be used for the betterment of the offroad community in the way of donations to other NFPS such as UFWDA, Tread Lightly, etc etc. Other possible uses for the funds would be to help further build out event locations.

The only thing landowners will get funding for will be negotiated land use fees, and possibly other things like catering, camping, etc. This is not a money making proposition - the goal is to provide the fun and entertainment for those around us in this hobby. We will only do this stuff as volunteers.

As far as what chrispy said about keeping control - as an organization we will be a driving force, not a driven force. We'll stand alone in so much as we will retain control over what this organization does, but we want to help provide our efforts and relationships to help other organizations bring their events here.

A relationship with Erocc for instance could possibly be that they have an event here, and we are merely volunteers while the event remains theirs, the control remains theirs, etc. In this instance, we'd merely be a 'host' of sorts.

MoROC will have it's own events going on that we run ourselves - some of them might not even be of the purely rockcrawling nature. The main point being that we want to keep this thing on the side of competitions, where there is an entry fee and moneys are paid out to winners.

Anyway - these are all just ideas - we don't have 100% clear direction yet, but in this phase of our planning we're hoping to get a better picture of what other organizations are willing/wanting to work with us - so we can make things more fun, more varied for everyone involved.

Originally posted by JT
We are not bob hazel, we do this stuff as volunteers.


Easy now, let's not lump all "for profits" in with Bob ;)

TEX

I reworded that TEX - I certainly don't want peeps thinking I'm lumping all the for profits in with Sports in the Ruff...

This adventure is purely NFP though... just so that's understood.

Originally posted by JT
I reworded that TEX - I certainly don't want peeps thinking I'm lumping all the for profits in with Sports in the Ruff...


No worries :)

TEX

erocc rules way to jr and fish.and way to finsh rusty:beer:

Have another beer and pass me one while your at it :)

Pweez :D