... but it is tech. T-19 close to wide gear swap write up (http://www.mo-4xtoys.com/torc/tetanus/Tranny/T-19 Mods.html).

Very nice! I bookmarked it. I'll be tearing into my trans in a few weeks and I'm sure your writeup will come in handy. :beer:

Looks hardcore to me. I don't know too many non-hardcore people that would try to rebuild thier own tranny, let alone swap gears around.

very informative....now could this be used for most 4 speed granny tranny's??

Originally posted by 392ssII
very informative....now could this be used for most 4 speed granny tranny's??
Don't know..... but it works for a T-19. This is the only 4-spd I've been into. They are surprisingly very simple devices....

Originally posted by JoshC
Very nice! I bookmarked it. I'll be tearing into my trans in a few weeks and I'm sure your writeup will come in handy. :beer:
Well, I hope somebody can get some use out of it. It was kind of a PITA to stop after every step and wipe my gear oil slathered hands off to pick up the digi cam and snap a pic.:flipoff2: If there is anything it is lacking or needs more explanation on, let me know and maybe I can add to the article.

Originally posted by TORC

Well, I hope somebody can get some use out of it. It was kind of a PITA to stop after every step and wipe my gear oil slathered hands off to pick up the digi cam and snap a pic.:flipoff2: If there is anything it is lacking or needs more explanation on, let me know and maybe I can add to the article.

Next time, wrap your camera in plastic wrap (seran wrap - the clingy stuff), except for the lens and flash. Then, you can snap away without cleaning your hands first...

TORC,

Very nice!!!!:beer:

I can say that the article you posted Will also work for a T-98, and most others, as the principles are the same for most U.S. Iron-box transmissions.

Good stuff, BRAVO:D

Good stuff TORC!

Now the question.

Will the T-19 wide gears go into a T-18 or are they two totally different trannies?

Originally posted by scoutver5.7
Good stuff TORC!

Now the question.

Will the T-19 wide gears go into a T-18 or are they two totally different trannies?
Don't know, like I said in a reply above, this is the only 4-sp I've been into. I don't know shit about any of the others. It would be interesting to know tho.... I wonder if the critical dimensions of the case are the same. I have another T19 that is already stripped and if I had a T18 laying around, I'd take a look.
If you have no other choice, you can take the 2WD case and drill and tap a couple holes, plug a couple more and do a bit of grinding on a boss on the side and it will accept the 4WD adapter. The problem then is that the 2WD shaft I got was 10 spline and the bull gear was 6 spline so I still had to swap the mainshafts.

No T18/T19 cases do not swap T18/T98 cases will.

Torc, grear write up, you did not mention the fun you had removing the snap rings ;) What snap ring pliers did you buy, mine are about worn out and I'm looking for a new pair.

Joe

Can you swap just the third gear. I dont like the jump from third to fourth in my wide box. OS I got the headers on. Clifford performace customer service can kiss my ass. Those people didnt just bs me they actualy flat out lied to me. I was explaining to the gal there that I was not satified with there sevice ,and she responded back by telling me that she was getting pissed (at us costomers )because people like me have been calling her the last couple of days and complaining, So I told her "what does that tell ya?" . My parts were sopposed to be here three weeks ago, for the last month they kept telling me "it's going out tomorrow". I find out yesterday that they are waiting to find one of the parts. I told them cancle my order and I got out the sawzall and grinder and adapted my intake to work with the headers, instead of getting the adapters. Thanks clifford for getting me pissed and forcing me to save money.

Originally posted by Mike Elrod
Can you swap just the third gear. I dont like the jump from third to fourth in my wide box.

Nope, the cluster gear is different between the two boxes. All or nothing.

I figured. Thanks Joe.

Originally posted by jdjanda
No T18/T19 cases do not swap T18/T98 cases will.

Torc, grear write up, you did not mention the fun you had removing the snap rings ;) What snap ring pliers did you buy, mine are about worn out and I'm looking for a new pair.

Joe
The 'snap rings' were absolutely, positively no problem whatsoever. I first started asking about this swap about 6 months ago and was told to "avoid disassembling the mainshaft at all costs" and to "be sure to buy a small parts kit in case you destroy a snap ring or have to cold chisel one off". :eek: I thought to myself, "MY GOD!!!" and could just picture this neanderthal dude in a wooly mamouth hide chiseling on the mainshaft with a rock and a piece of bone. :D

Even though the manual calls them snap rings, I believe the correct name for that type of retainer is lock ring. I tried to refer to them as such in the write up. Snap rings generally have the the little round holes in them that the prongs on the pliers fit into. These retainers do not. They are just a ring that has a small gap in it. If you have a good tool store in the area or a good automotive parts store that sells tools also, you will see hanging on the rack snap ring pliers and LOCK RING pliers. You want the lock ring pliers for this job and quality set at that. These lock rings are thick and it takes a considerable amount of force to spread them. The LR pliers have a wide flat blade on them that looks basically like an inverted set of normal pliers.

That being said, I got a set that is about 15" from tip to end of handle. Pop them in the gap, squeeze the handles together and slide the ring off the shaft. Took about 2 to 10 seconds per ring. I had one mainshaft completely disassembled in about 10 minutes, and that included pulling the reverse gear. I can't stress enough the old saying: "the right tool for the job"!!! Not only is the T19 the only 4-sp I've ever been into, this was the first time I have EVER been into a manual tranny. No voodoo here, just a relatively simple mechanical device.

Originally posted by Mike Elrod
Can you swap just the third gear. I dont like the jump from third to fourth in my wide box.
That has to be the most asked question I've gotten from posting this article. Joe hit it on the head. If the countershaft gear was actually four separate gears that were locked together somehow then it would be a simple matter to mix and match gears from one to the other. Hmmmm...... I wonder if there would be a market for a custom cluster gear that would allow the use of a the close ratio's 3rd gear with the rest of the wide ratio's gear set. Maybe have it made by EDM..... wonder what that would cost?

Originally posted by TORC

Even though the manual calls them snap rings, I believe the correct name for that type of retainer is lock ring. I tried to refer to them as such in the write up. Snap rings generally have the the little round holes in them that the prongs on the pliers fit into. These retainers do not. They are just a ring that has a small gap in it. If you have a good tool store in the area or a good automotive parts store that sells tools also, you will see hanging on the rack snap ring pliers and LOCK RING pliers. You want the lock ring pliers for this job and quality set at that. These lock rings are thick and it takes a considerable amount of force to spread them. The LR pliers have a wide flat blade on them that looks basically like an inverted set of normal pliers.


Wait till you get tough one, one that is weak on one side tight on the other. They can be a real PITA. Mine are just about worn out they don't grip like they used to. I also bent an offset in the handles so I could get a little extra spread out of em. Sounds like you got lucky and didn't have any PITA ones.

JOe

Yep...knocking the dust off of this thread :flipoff2:

But..........Linky-no-worky

Mechanos, did ya happen to save this write-up that can still be shared with everyone? Or maybe hosted on another website?

Holy crap.... this one is kinda old. Probably more than just dust on it.:flipoff2: I'll have to do some looking around in the archives, but I think I do still have the write up pages saved somewhere.... but I don't have anywhere to host it. You looking into doing the swap?

Holy crap.... this one is kinda old. Probably more than just dust on it.:flipoff2: I'll have to do some looking around in the archives, but I think I do still have the write up pages saved somewhere.... but I don't have anywhere to host it. You looking into doing the swap?

yeah I'm trying to my research right now. I have a bunch of trannies out at the farm, I'm trying to figure out exactly what all I have. Bascially lookin to ditch the close ratio (whatever I have).

What it this going in? Are you trying to end up with a wide ratio tranny for a married application or divorced? If you're going to toss anything... make sure you look at the mainshafts. Hang on to any 6 spline mainshafts you have.

What it this going in? Are you trying to end up with a wide ratio tranny for a married application or divorced? If you're going to toss anything... make sure you look at the mainshafts. Hang on to any 6 spline mainshafts you have.

The end result is to end up with a divorced wide. Tomorrow, I'm going out to pull trans covers. But this is for my T-all.

The end result is to end up with a divorced wide. Tomorrow, I'm going out to pull trans covers. But this is for my T-all.
Those are fairly commonplace.... at least much more common than finding a wide ratio married tranny. Chances are, you'll be able to readily source a wide ratio divorced tranny without having to swap gears around. Let me know what you come up with in your stock pile (out of curiousity).

Hosting for tech articles is always available at Just Internationals.Thats great.

Wheres tranny the writeup????????? couldn't find it????????:confused:

[Foghorn Leghorn]I.. I.. I... I say, pay attention son.[/Foghorn Leghorn]

Ok....well that wasn't fun. Gettin out to the farm was fun though, snow wheelin is cool!

Well there is no married manuals out there, just autos. But I have a T-98 wide, a T-18 close, and another T-98 that I have no idea right now. Fingers weren't talkin to me after the second cover removal. Now I just have to get this pig out of the truck. As far as I could tell, everything looked good in the wide tranny.

Oh, and there is a 5 speed out there also......but I'm not allowed to touch that one :shaking:

What criteria did you use to determine that the T-98 was a T-98..... not doubting you, just curious.

What criteria did you use to determine that the T-98 was a T-98..... not doubting you, just curious.

Well from what I have gathered, if the pto access is on the passenger side it's a T-98 (right?). Also from what I could see, the bolt patterns on the top covers are different between the T-18/19s from the 98s. Granted I could be wrong about this. But whether if it's a T-98 wide or a T-19 wide (doubtfull), I'm still golden. Plus this tranny has the bell shaped (damn I can't remember what it's called) that threads the shifter to the top cover. Yeah I'm still tryin to school myself on these gear boxes.

What the fuckin hell you talkin about? Speak english.

What the fuckin hell you talkin about? Speak english.

Is this directed at my last post or Mechanos's?

If it's Mechanos's, then look at the very first post in the thread. See the link?

GOOD!

See my post revivng this thread, and stating that the link doesn't work?

Ok I'm not a math major but I sure as hell can put two and two together. :shaking:

i'm not sure if thisis accurate or not but I went by the throw of the shifter. Close ratio shifters had the same amount of throw as the other gears. Wides had a huge throw into first. Like your hand almost hits the dash, long throw.

At least this is my experiance.

Never heard of that one before..... don't know if it's valid or not. If you want to be 100% sure it's a wide, either count the turns or pull the top cover. Either of these method will remove all doubt and speculation.

Well from what I have gathered, if the pto access is on the passenger side it's a T-98 (right?). Also from what I could see, the bolt patterns on the top covers are different between the T-18/19s from the 98s. Granted I could be wrong about this. But whether if it's a T-98 wide or a T-19 wide (doubtfull), I'm still golden. Plus this tranny has the bell shaped (damn I can't remember what it's called) that threads the shifter to the top cover. Yeah I'm still tryin to school myself on these gear boxes.

IH application T18s and T98s both use the same top cover. They will almost always have 'T98' cast onto the top cover on BOTH trannys. Reverse will be in the 'right-and-forward' possition.

LATE ('79-ish and up) Ford and Jeep T18s have the same top cover as T19s. T19s and these LATE T18s have reverse in the 'right-and-back' possition.

IH T18s and most T98s have the PTO port on the passenger side only. Some IH T98s supposedly had the port on the DS (I have a lineset code list that mentions them stashed somewhere).

T19s have the PTO ports on BOTH sides. T19s have a synchronized first gear. T18s and T98s have a first/reverse slider with straight cut gear teeth on it.

ALL these trannys will have the stamped steel 'bell' shifter retainer 'nut' you mentioned.

The easiest way to tell a wide ratio T18 (Regarding Binders these were NEVER stock in a 'maried' Scout application; only used in divorced 4WD and 2WD truck applications) from a T98 is to count the teeth on the first/reverse slider. T98s have 43 teeth. T18 WIDES have 40 teeth.

As others mentioned, the easiest way to find the wide-ratio units is to shift the trannys into first and count revolutions. 4.02/1=close ratio. 6.32/1=wide ratio (T18 and T19). 6.43/1=T98.

You're 'golden' status depends on whether or not you'll be happy with an unsynchronized first gear.

Swipe that five speed and send it to me. I'll send you :beer: and some heated gloves!!!

IH application T18s and T98s both use the same top cover. They will almost always have 'T98' cast onto the top cover on BOTH trannys. Reverse will be in the 'right-and-forward' possition.

LATE ('79-ish and up) Ford and Jeep T18s have the same top cover as T19s. T19s and these LATE T18s have reverse in the 'right-and-back' possition.

IH T18s and most T98s have the PTO port on the passenger side only. Some IH T98s supposedly had the port on the DS (I have a lineset code list that mentions them stashed somewhere).

T19s have the PTO ports on BOTH sides. T19s have a synchronized first gear. T18s and T98s have a first/reverse slider with straight cut gear teeth on it.

ALL these trannys will have the stamped steel 'bell' shifter retainer 'nut' you mentioned.

The easiest way to tell a wide ratio T18 (Regarding Binders these were NEVER stock in a 'maried' Scout application; only used in divorced 4WD and 2WD truck applications) from a T98 is to count the teeth on the first/reverse slider. T98s have 43 teeth. T18 WIDES have 40 teeth.

As others mentioned, the easiest way to find the wide-ratio units is to shift the trannys into first and count revolutions. 4.02/1=close ratio. 6.32/1=wide ratio (T18 and T19). 6.43/1=T98.

You're 'golden' status depends on whether or not you'll be happy with an unsynchronized first gear.

Swipe that five speed and send it to me. I'll send you :beer: and some heated gloves!!!

Thanks for the info.......my searching was obviously half ass :shaking:

Guess I need to go out and count some teeth

Why my buddy hasn't put that 5 speed in a safe yet, has me baffled. I offered $500 to him for it awhile back, and he just blew that offer off. I guess that he REALLY wants the piece of doo-doo. :flipoff2:

What is it? T-34, T-35 or T-36???

What is it? T-34, T-35 or T-36???

either it's a T-35 or a T-36

This tranny was in the donor T-all that held my current 392. When I did my engine swap, I drove the T-all home from the farm and remember that it had a very low 1st. I can't say if it has the OD 5th. But when I did drive it down the road, I was trying to come up with all kinds of schemes to keep this one.

either it's a T-35 or a T-36

This tranny was in the donor T-all that held my current 392. When I did my engine swap, I drove the T-all home from the farm and remember that it had a very low 1st. I can't say if it has the OD 5th. But when I did drive it down the road, I was trying to come up with all kinds of schemes to keep this one.


If it's outa the T-All then it's probably a T34 O/D or T36 'close ratio' dirrect. The only way it's a T35 'wide ratio' dirrect is if it was swapped into the T-all. That tranny seems to only have come stock in MD and HD trucks. I've come to this conclusion based on the info I've gleaned from sales brochures, my service manuals, and my parts catalogs.

ALL of the five speeds would be considered 'wide ratio' by T18/T19/T98 standards. The T34 and T36 have a 6.21/1 first gear. Damn low in its own right...

The T35 has a 7.17/1 first!!! It and the T36 are both dirrect in fith. The T36 is THE tranny for towing according to many. The T34 O/D has a 'gappy' gear set and a WIERD shift pattern. The T35 could be thought of as a T19 close ratio PLUS a super granny unsynchronized first gear. For a rig as light as a Scout a T34 would rock (except that it's BIG, HEAVY, and is ONLY available as a divorced unit).

Check on the B/B (or search here for my earlier post about these IH five speeds) to get the ratios for these trannys.

... Some IH T98s supposedly had the port on the DS...


I can affirm this. I have a T98 with a PTO mounted on it on the driver's side in my B140. This trans came from a late '60s IH pickup, IIRC.

Ken