Back in January, right before I left to go out to the Hammers for KOH, I found this crack started in my Rusty's panhard mount.

http://photos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v2072/53/103/24800499/n24800499_33128130_754.jpg

I was rushed for time, so I just wire wheeled it down to bare metal, ground a groove into the crack, and threw some liquid metal at it. After the Hammers and a bunch of runs at Rausch Creek it seemed to be holding up OK.

Well...not so much now. 11 laps of the Uwharrie 4x4cross course took its toll and I've got a lot of work to do.

Here's the driver side frame rail area, which doesn't look too bad. I had added the brace to the back of the panhard mount after seeing that crack.

http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs081.snc1/4551_567121726599_24800499_33591839_8305993_n.jpg

Underneath...doesn't look so good.

http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs081.snc1/4551_567121731589_24800499_33591840_4733540_n.jpg

http://photos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs081.snc1/4551_567121741569_24800499_33591842_1851856_n.jpg

Now the panhard mount has cracked all the way through (1/4" steel) and the two pieces are separate.

http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v4551/53/103/24800499/n24800499_33591841_7583997.jpg

This put all the lateral force from the panhard into the outer face of the frame rail structure and caused the cracks shown above. It finished the race without issue and I never noticed it while driving.

I will probably throw some more plate and weld at it for now and keep an eye on it...but I'm fairly certain this has accelerated my plans for cutting all the inner fender crap out and making some coilover hoops, plus full hydro steering etc.

Next run was supposed to be in two weeks. Not sure if I'm gonna make that one.

Time for a new chassis

I had the same problem on my Willys and it's in the workshop now for a full rebuild as whenever I patched it up it would crack somewhere else , it had reached it's 'use by' date.

Once they start cracking like that it just gets worse.

Damn those are some serious cracks! Just switch your track bar around and make your frame mount of the passenger side:flipoff2:

How'd you finish in the race? Make some money?

Mine had that same crack in the mount. Busted out some big 7018 rod and went to town on it. Then made a bracket that went from the passenger side frame to the track bar bracket.

I inspect it for cracks every so often, but have been ok for about a year now.

Sounds like Vette is going to have a front frame build.

Well isnt that a bitch. My mount cracked in the same spot too and I repaired it the same too. Fortunatly mine has held better though. Hopefully this isnt a preview of future repairs....

Whatcha got goin on on top of those coils??? Homemade little coil spacers?

Just ditch the panhard bar all together when you go full hydro :flipoff2:

That sucks though; I'm interested to see what you come up with next.

You should be running a brace from the bracket to the other frame rail. The added cross brace will spread the load to both frame rails.

Time for a new chassis

Nah, I've spent too much time cutting Jeep stuff off of this one, the last thing I'd want to do is start it all over again. :laughing:

How'd you finish in the race? Make some money?

Got 9th, which I'm not unhappy about. I ran a clean and smooth race and I don't think it could have been done much faster in my truck. The "jumps" were just flat out brutal and made it tough to carry speed for very long anywhere on the course, and my lil 190 HP couldn't make up for it as well as some of the bigger motors could. It was a good experience though.

Sounds like Vette is going to have a front frame build.

Probably something similar to what Scott did, but with coilovers. I think I've got another few inches of uptravel that can be gained once I get rid of the inner fenders and mechanical steering.


Whatcha got goin on on top of those coils??? Homemade little coil spacers?

They're just 2.5" bore two-piece shaft collars. Nothin fancy.

Time for a new chassis





Nahh. The "frames" can be fixed easily. Here's one that I fixed a little while ago. We even fixed one almost as bad in the middle of Baja, Mexico.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b392/FatCity1/IMG_1558.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b392/FatCity1/IMG_1563.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b392/FatCity1/IMG_1564.jpg


And here's the repair.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b392/FatCity1/CopyofIMG_1574.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b392/FatCity1/IMG_1572.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b392/FatCity1/IMG_1571.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b392/FatCity1/IMG_1578.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b392/FatCity1/IMG_1592.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b392/FatCity1/IMG_1591.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b392/FatCity1/IMG_1590.jpg

It helps to put something all the way through the "frame" and welded to both sides to hold the two peices of "frame" together.

Any way to install a second bar above the track bar that lands on the PS frame rail?

Full traction makes one like that....

http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv219/BighitCO/DSC01136.jpg

http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv219/BighitCO/DSC01072.jpg

Yeah, and that's likely something I'll be including relatively soon.

:laughing:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3561/3567971263_86450ea833_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2463/3568757136_75a6f6a822.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3298/3568760522_84f751bb96.jpg

Gettin' it down the back stretch...

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2478/3567973347_999ba4874a.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3348/3567973419_71bbceac37.jpg?v=0

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2441/3568784654_676a9be832.jpg?v=0

This truck doesn't owe me anything at this point. :)

Looks like fun. I think i need to start getting my rig ready for the go fast stuff.

Looks like fun. I think i need to start getting my rig ready for the go fast stuff.

I can help you figure out the springs & valving etc...but be warned: this shit is a downward spiral. Once you go fast, you're not gonna want to go slow again. :D

After looking at it again I'm pretty confident I can have more than 6" uptravel if I go full hydro and coilovers without changing the ride height at all. Limiting factor becomes the oil pan. Time to start budgeting. :)

I can help you figure out the springs & valving etc...but be warned: this shit is a downward spiral. Once you go fast, you're not gonna want to go slow again. :D



I know it is. But that is my plan. I am shooting for the 2011 RCQ. Which gives me time to rip everything apart on the XJ and turn it into a light weight. V8 is in the works too. To start I will be running the coils with some FOA Reservoir shocks with air bumps on all corners. But I need to figure out Compression Valve and Rebound Valve. Seems like you ask 10 people how to set them up and you get 10 different answers.

Looks like I have a lot of reading to do.

Any way to install a second bar above the track bar that lands on the PS frame rail?

Full traction makes one like that....


Rubicon Express makes a double shear adj. trackbar with cross brace also

sounds like its time for a go fast motor as well

threw some liquid metal at it

Hehe, good choice of words.

If you need help with a bling front frame build I might be in a position to offer my services fulltime in jersey in under a month.... :smokin:

I agree with the rest, I mangled my old rusty's trac bar bracket a long time ago just wheeling it, after that I put a brace from the other "frame rail" to the tracbar bolt. Given my unsprung weight isn't nearly what yours is--but I've jumped the shit out of it in multiple urecross type races and last years urecross, and it's still just fine. Looks like you've got a lot of plating to do too though. Maybe even move the mounting hole for the trac bar up 1.5+ inches at the frame mount?

Also, I thought that was you camping with lou and the eb guys next door but wasn't certain. If you had driven the ctd bronco I would have known for sure. Should have said hey :flipoff2:

You should be running a brace from the bracket to the other frame rail. The added cross brace will spread the load to both frame rails.


this

I had a bad crack in the same spot that started about 4-5 years ago, just threw an RE-like brace on made out of some scrap from work and the crack stopped spreading. My lazy ass didn't weld up the crack until this past winter :shaking:
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o94/shmoken875/random/DSC00182.jpg

I did something similar over the weekend. I plan on gutting the front frame completely this fall so this is all just to keep it together until then.

Removed frame bracket, gnarly crack in 1/4" plate:

http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs081.snc1/4551_567732153299_24800499_33626340_2710336_n.jpg

Started welding it all back up and boxed in the front with two 3/8" nuts welded in place:

http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v4551/53/103/24800499/n24800499_33626341_8135959.jpg

Made this brace:

http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v4551/53/103/24800499/n24800499_33626342_1244594.jpg

Welded two 3/8" flange nuts into the frame reinforcement:

http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v4551/53/103/24800499/n24800499_33626343_8059658.jpg

Painted & installed:

http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs081.snc1/4551_567732173259_24800499_33626344_6677932_n.jpg

One of those projects that took a lot longer than I thought it would, but it should be a decent improvement. Now I just gotta do some patching & plating on the frame itself and it should be good to go for a while.

I am gonna have to watch for the front frame build :grinpimp:

My rusty's mount cracked in the same spot at Moab in April. Had to do the quick fix to get me through the week but knowing I'll have to do something more permanent.

Curious to see what you come up with...

Dang you guys have way to much flex going on down there. Mount a rear view camera down there and see what the f is flexing so much. Sounds like the Passenger crossover brace might work.

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Dang you guys have way to much flex going on down there. Mount a rear view camera down there and see what the f is flexing so much. Sounds like the Passenger crossover brace might work.

Subscribed

No shit. :laughing:

I can tell you exactly what's flexing.

- added leverage on frame side trackbar mount due to increased steering force required for larger tires, plus higher sprung weight = more inertial mass acting against the trackbar during lateral movement (body roll when turning, sidehilling, landing crooked off jumps, hitting cross ruts, etc);

- added leverage on steering box due to increased steering force, plus more leverage from the tires on the steering components due to increased tire diameter;

- the trackbar mount & steering box fight each other in opposite directions when applying steering force;

- driver's side motor mount is in tension when accelerating which pulls on the inside portion of the trackbar mount;

Plus the tie rod was slightly bent which screwed up the hydro assist ram travel in relation to the pitman arm, and the pitman arm was maxing out against the internal steering box stops first. At full lock the hydro ram was trying to keep pushing and that difference was taken up by flexing the trackbar mount and partially by the sector shaft in the steering box, which would probably have been the next thing to go if the trackbar mount was sufficiently rigid.

Fact is, I've been wheeling it hard for over two years now with these axles and tires, and the last 6 months have probably been the hardest. When you wheel a heavy XJ with heavy tires and heavy axles for that long you're going to start seeing effects somewhere in the unibody - hell, even stock to mildly wheeled rigs can start experiencing cracks around the steering box area. You can either brace the shit out of everything from the start, or you wind up like me and brace the common areas from the start and find the next weakest spot. I'm not surprised really. Just gotta keep an eye on it, catch them as soon as possible, and upgrade/fix accordingly.

No shit. :laughing:

I can tell you exactly what's flexing.

- added leverage on frame side trackbar mount due to increased steering force required for larger tires, plus higher sprung weight = more inertial mass acting against the trackbar during lateral movement (body roll when turning, sidehilling, landing crooked off jumps, hitting cross ruts, etc);

- added leverage on steering box due to increased steering force, plus more leverage from the tires on the steering components due to increased tire diameter;

- the trackbar mount & steering box fight each other in opposite directions when applying steering force;

- driver's side motor mount is in tension when accelerating which pulls on the inside portion of the trackbar mount;

Plus the tie rod was slightly bent which screwed up the hydro assist ram travel in relation to the pitman arm, and the pitman arm was maxing out against the internal steering box stops first. At full lock the hydro ram was trying to keep pushing and that difference was taken up by flexing the trackbar mount and partially by the sector shaft in the steering box, which would probably have been the next thing to go if the trackbar mount was sufficiently rigid.

Fact is, I've been wheeling it hard for over two years now with these axles and tires, and the last 6 months have probably been the hardest. When you wheel a heavy XJ with heavy tires and heavy axles for that long you're going to start seeing effects somewhere in the unibody - hell, even stock to mildly wheeled rigs can start experiencing cracks around the steering box area. You can either brace the shit out of everything from the start, or you wind up like me and brace the common areas from the start and find the next weakest spot. I'm not surprised really. Just gotta keep an eye on it, catch them as soon as possible, and upgrade/fix accordingly.

I read KOH and even the teams with money can't keep there junk running. LOL
So your doing good! :beer: If that track bar was mounted up higher on the frame bracket that would help. Yes I see the oil pan would hit, but maybe something could be done there too. Anything to shorted the leverage arm created by that mounting point.

http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs081.snc1/4551_567121726599_24800499_33591839_8305993_n.jpg

The bracket is a stock Rusty's part, and as such the hole is positioned to match the factory Pitman arm.

If I raise the hole, I'd need to raise the Pitman arm as well. At full droop on the passenger side I'm already near maxing out the TRE's so I'd rather not do that. Alternatively I could raise the axle trackbar mount, but it's already really close to the coil and there's not a lot of room to move it.

Which goes back to what I said before...there are many advantages to be had if I go full hydro + coilovers on this thing.

Dragging this back up from the dead.

Vetteboy, how did this work out for you?
I'm fighting a frame flex problem where the tracbar is forcing the frame rail to move in and out a little as I steer. I haven't found any visible cracks yet, but would like to fix this before it causes a bigger problem. My plan is a brace similar to yours, but using the 2 bolts that attach the tracbar bracket to the underside of the frame, for mounting on the driver side.

He gave up

Looks like a pretty solid repair you did to that crack, pretty similar to what I did. Mine has held up very well, no noticable movement and I hammer on my rig pretty hard. :D
http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab233/678syk/Build%20Pics/blackberry_pics196.jpg

Meh. Made it another two years, and put it out to pasture about a month ago.

Starting a new, non-XJ project this winter.

January 2012 will be 12 years I've owned this damn thing. :D

Sucks starting over but in the end it'll be worth it. 12 years is pretty dang good.

Sounds like close enough to working for me. It's not like I'm going to attempt to race mine.:laughing:

Wow, didn't know you ditched the XJ. RIP!

Some guy in my local club did the same thing. Bought an XJ brand new, a 2001 I think, completely built it up with a crazy cage and 609/9" axles, then recently swapped it all over to a TJ and ditched the XJ body.

I'm fighting cracks in my unibody now as well. Time for hydro-assist to help out a bit, then a better welding job and a brace to hold the trac-bar mount on the frame. Mine was welded in a few spots, but those recently cracked through.