UNFORTUNATELY SWAMPED MY 2007 LIFTED, TRAIL MODIFIED FJ CRUISER (with fairly new BFG KM2 33s) IN FIRST FORDYCE CREEK CROSSING BECAUSE THE DAM LET ALL THE WATER GO EARLY.. NOT LONG BEFORE I WENT THROUGH; WATER LEVEL WAS LOWER EARLIER. HAD TO HAVE MYSELF AND FAMILY OF SIX - SEVEN INCLUDING THE DOG - AIRLIFTED FROM THE ROOF OF THE FJ BY CHP RESCUE.

Was able to get the FJ closer to shore w/ helps of CHP Rescue Team and some kind 4x4s in the area. CHP Rescue Team called mission quits when thunder storm and darkness moved in. :(

I need a pair of vehicles to drive me in, finish pulling the FJ out, and - possibly - towing it if the engine won't start. Thanks.

"He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone." -Jesus Christ

With all the warnings on the posts, why would you try is with your family on board . Not a good idea. You put your family in danger and trail. I'm glad you and your family made it out saftly, Good luck>

With all the warnings on the posts, why would you try is with your family on board . Not a good idea. You put your family in danger and trail. I'm glad you and your family made it out saftly, Good luck>

I was thinking the same thing:shaking:

sounds to me kind of like ya deserve to be sunk if your wheeling up there this time of year on 33"s and expect to beable to do a river crossing! think befor you drive next time and lucky you all made it out of there alive!!

heck the flow has only been that high for how long now? oh wait you could have checked it here!:shaking:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=692095

We can give the guy a break now. Some people don't know what's going on there as well as others. I'm glad you're ok.

I'll give you a call a little later to discuss your options. I'm at work right now so it may be tonight. A local club may be able to help. The other option is a 4x4 tow service that works in the area.

Is the vehicle at least close to the correct shore?

I talked to the guy early this morning and asked him what is was worth to him for me to travel up there ,recover his rig,etc.......His response, "I can do it for free myself"........so I say...get-er-done:shaking:

never go alone

I talked to the guy early this morning and asked him what is was worth to him for me to travel up there ,recover his rig,etc.......His response, "I can do it for free myself"........so I say...get-er-done:shaking:

Thats why no one likes you.

Call Gieco and get their towing coverage. They should take care of you after that. :D

I guess you didn't read this before you set out for the weekend :homer: http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9840835&postcount=1

SWAMPED MY LIFTED, 33" TIRE FJ CRUISER AT FIRST FORDYCE CREEK CROSSING BECAUSE THE DAM LET ALL THE WATER GO NOT LONG BEFORE I WENT THROUGH; WATER LEVEL WAS LOWER EARLIER. HAD TO HAVE MYSELF AND FAMILY AIRLIFTED FROM THE ROOF OF THE FJ BY CHP RESCUE.

Was able to get the FJ closer to shore w/ helps of CHP Rescue Team and some kind 4x4s in the area. CHP Rescue Team called mission quits when thunder storm and darkness moved in. :(

I need a pair of vehicles to drive me in, finish pulling the FJ out, and - possibly - towing it if the engine won't start. PLEASE HELP.

Call Adam @ 916-293-8171 ASAP... ANYTIME OF DAY. I want to get my rig out of there as quickly as possible. Thanks.


Bummer, as I was just up there. You got several issue to figure out even if it does start. Everything that sat under water over night will be full of water like your diffs and transmission/transfer case/ engine/ etc. Towing it out is not good on either rig. Plus your junk will get beat up as you can't steer for chit when its not running. Just fuel cost will be a couple tank fulls.

As I was leaving around 4pm or so, the sheriff came in like a bat out of hell wonder now if that was for you?

Good luck.

P.S. I was going to just hang out there waiting for some chit to happen:evil:, but we went off to another area and camp and just enjoyed the nice weather.

Even made the local paper:

http://www.theunion.com/article/20090526/WEBUPDATE/905269986/1066&ParentProfile=1053

Even made the local paper:

http://www.theunion.com/article/20090526/WEBUPDATE/905269986/1066&ParentProfile=1053

lurker:flipoff2:

Good to hear that everybody is alright but DAMN somebody better add some chlorine to the gene pool!!

Has anyone heard anything yet.. reguardless of what who did, are we " as fellow wheelers" able to help this guy out. Dont flame me Iam just wondering..

So when does Maritime Salvage Law apply???

pretty soon if he dosnt post back up with an update. if it isnt in the proscess of being salvaged already! i just want to see some pictures of this!

Does this guy get to reimburse the tax payers of California for the helicopter ride?

Help is in the works folks...stay tuned.

Thanks go out to Justin of North Elk Grove who worked with me today to pull the FJ out of the river and to safety.

Unfortunately, there is more water in the engine than oil. I'll need to tow it out, and I believe Eric from the Rubicon Forum has offered to take care of that.

Thanks folks! I really appreciate the efforts!

(So do the local Sheriffs Deputies and CHP Aerial Rescue Team, who have been keeping close tabs on the situation.)

just curious and might not be a good question.... but do you have any pictures of it in the river?

p.s. glad everyone was ok.:)

I was just gonna ask if anyone has pics. glad everyone is ok

who have been keeping close tabs on the situation.

Is this some sort of billy badass scare tactic??

just curious and might not be a good question.... but do you have any pictures of it in the river?

p.s. glad everyone was ok.:)

Camera was in the FJ, in the water; no pics from that camera. But the CHP Rescue Team has pics and a video they will send to me on a disk. Those guys did one hell of a job airlifting all six of us and our dog from the roof to the helicopter skids.

I'd made the swim to shore (before the CHP came) with my winch cable to tie off and prevent further downstream movement. Stayed in the water - tied with my tow strap to the FJ - one half hour working to get the winch going; no luck... too much water. When I got out with blue lips/face, wife called 911 on the cell phone. CHP Rescue showed up about an hour later.

The river volume increased between the time of safe crossings just a few hours before (people were crossing back and forth all day) to our late (i.e., 4:00pm) crossing. I thought the others were still around, and they were... just behind us too far. CHP said the dam had to release extra flow earlier than planned due to overfill. We were the "beneficiaries" of that decision.

I stopped mid river while still on solid bottom to check depth, it was deep but seemed doable on the line I was running. Nevertheless, as we proceeded, the extra four-six inches of flow lifted the FJ off the bottom a few feet later and dumped me in a hole. Sometimes luck bites you in the ass.

Then the CHP Aerial Rescue Team comes and luck pats you on the back. (BTW, been laid off for five months trying to find a job in my field; money has been more than tight... losing your home sucks too. CHP explained that the rescue team is paid for by our car registration fees. Thank Heavens!)

Is this some sort of billy badass scare tactic??

No. Just the facts. Sheriff's deputy from last night met us at the bottom today after we pulled the FJ out for an update. He said the CHP Helicopter had been flying the area. *shrugs*

I can't help but think about the old Bees & Honey vs Vinegar proverb.
Sounds like a valuable/expensive lesson.

The water rising during the day has nothing to do with PG&E.
It has to do with the sun rising & temperatures rising (snow run off increases, so H20 levels rise).

Glad everyone got out OK.

I sure am glad you didn't all drown. What made you think something on 33's would make it throught that?

we want pics.........we want pics.......we want pics.......so toyotas sink like chevys (like a rock)......glad to hear your family is fine..










Q) did we learn anything from this trip?????

A) run bigger tires

Pictures?....pictures? .......we don't want no stinkin pictures! Some of enviro-anti wheeling friends will use it against all of us.

pictures?....pictures? .......we don't want no stinkin pictures! Some of enviro-anti wheeling friends will use it against all of us.

x2

It is on Good day Sacramento.

Pictures?....pictures? .......we don't want no stinkin pictures! Some of enviro-anti wheeling friends will use it against all of us.

lets hope they dont watch the new

no vid, just a pic of the water over the hood.

Q) did we learn anything from this trip?????

A) run bigger tires


No, I don't think that's the lesson(s) to be learned here.

#1 - travel with AT LEAST one other rig.

#2 - if you're not familiar with the trail, go with someone that is!

#3 - just because you made it once and it was sketchy, doesn't mean luck will hold out for a second run.

#4 - creek crossings in the Sierra, in the Spring, are unpredictable.

This could have turned out much worse, and now that you are all safe and the rig has been extracted, we can all breathe a sigh of relief. I hope no bad press comes out of this, we all know the media and enviros have a way of twisting things around.

Just a tip for your 'next' trip - when crossing at #1, as you come down the hill and approach the creek, make a B line towards the left (downstream) go maybe 20 feet or so in that direction, then turn towards the shore, just before you are about to go in the bush on the other side, turn right and drive up on the sandy shore. Water is way less deep there and the footing is much better. Attempting to drive straight across will put you in a deep hole, even when flows are low.

http://cbs13.com/local/chp.river.rescue.2.1020786.html

Adam you are one very very lucky man to have not lost more than your FJ.

Perfect timing, just what we needed. :shaking:

You owe FOF atleast 2 work weekends for this BS. :smokin:

Come on man. Everybody can see the pic through the link, did you really need to post it???????:confused:

"It's just a 3 hour tour Gilligan"

That picture reflects poorly on the OHV community.

Glad the kids and the Boston Terrier are ok.

"It's just a 3 hour tour Gilligan"

That picture reflects poorly on the OHV community.

Glad the kids and the Boston Terrier are ok.

That but also reflects more poorly on people that dont think, and arnt prepared befor going out wheeling!:shaking:

How many seatbelt/seats/boosters/harnesses are in your FJ?

No, I don't think that's the lesson(s) to be learned here.

#1 - travel with AT LEAST one other rig.

#2 - if you're not familiar with the trail, go with someone that is!

#3 - just because you made it once and it was sketchy, doesn't mean luck will hold out for a second run.

#4 - creek crossings in the Sierra, in the Spring, are unpredictable.

This could have turned out much worse, and now that you are all safe and the rig has been extracted, we can all breathe a sigh of relief. I hope no bad press comes out of this, we all know the media and enviros have a way of twisting things around.

Just a tip for your 'next' trip - when crossing at #1, as you come down the hill and approach the creek, make a B line towards the left (downstream) go maybe 20 feet or so in that direction, then turn towards the shore, just before you are about to go in the bush on the other side, turn right and drive up on the sandy shore. Water is way less deep there and the footing is much better. Attempting to drive straight across will put you in a deep hole, even when flows are low.


i totally agree.


how are they going to explain this to the insurance company as they (ins companys) dont cover offroading

How many seatbelt/seats/boosters/harnesses are in your FJ?

5 or so the Toyota web site says

in CO the insurance companies pay as long as the road is a labeled road. FS road etc,.

(BTW, been laid off for five months trying to find a job in my field; money has been more than tight... losing your home sucks too. CHP explained that the rescue team is paid for by our car registration fees. Thank Heavens!)


If you lost your house what are the odds you kept your insurance current

It would be really nice if the follow up story could be how the Pirate 4x4 Community banded together to recover the vehicle, instead of beating the guy up about his decisions.

We have all f'ed up at one time or another.

It would be really nice if the follow up story could be how the Pirate 4x4 Community banded together to recover the vehicle, instead of beating the guy up about his decisions.

We have all f'ed up at one time or another.

Tell me - how often do you leave the house with 5 seatbelts, 2 adults and 4 kids, then go off-roading. That was fawk up number 1.

On the water crossing, yes, he fawked up, yes, I feel a little bad for him because they released early. But at the same time, water crossings are NEVER to be taken lightly. Once the water gets over your hubs the chances of being picked up and washed down river start growing exponentially. It's even higher if by the point it's up to your hubs it's already pushing on the body of the vehicle.

Even with the right route shit can happen and you can find yourself floating down river.

What he did do right was at least tie his vehicle off to shore so it couldn't go further. Everything else looks to be one bad decision after another and if no one says anything, he may not realize it.

http://www.kcra.com/news/19578981/detail.html?treets=sac&tid=26551626808

Tell me - how often do you leave the house with 5 seatbelts, 2 adults and 4 kids, then go off-roading. That was fawk up number 1.

On the water crossing, yes, he fawked up, yes, I feel a little bad for him because they released early. But at the same time, water crossings are NEVER to be taken lightly. Once the water gets over your hubs the chances of being picked up and washed down river start growing exponentially. It's even higher if by the point it's up to your hubs it's already pushing on the body of the vehicle.

Even with the right route shit can happen and you can find yourself floating down river.

What he did do right was at least tie his vehicle off to shore so it couldn't go further. Everything else looks to be one bad decision after another and if no one says anything, he may not realize it.

Send him a PM. Educate him. Shit, his phone numer was in the first post, call him. But nothing good can come from bashing him publicly on the largest 4x4 website in the world. It's already WAY too public.

PLEASE READ

I am seriously thinking about soft-deleting this thread, but I will wait for Bret to chime in since this is his forum and Fordyce is his baby.

Water quality issues are a big deal, and we just went thru it with the Rubicon. The more of an issue this is made out to be, the worse it could get for us in terms of access. Pirate4x4.com is a big site, and many of the Anti's read this forums. I know that for a FACT as pictures and comments in here have been repeated in meetings and on documents.

What also amazes me are the people that chime in that do not know anything about this water crossing or Fordyce in itself.

For those of you lead here from other websites or thru searching online, while it had happened before: this is NOT a common occurance on Fordyce. Water flows in this area are measured carefully by many in the OHV community. The stream bed is solid rock and sediment is not an issue.

Delete it, Kurt.
Please.

It's also on the Rubicon forum and now in chit chat, too.

Pictures?....pictures?

http://cbs13.com/local/chp.river.rescue.2.1020786.html

How many seatbelt/seats/boosters/harnesses are in your FJ?

Eight seats and eight seatbelts.

http://cbs13.com/local/chp.river.rescue.2.1020786.html

:shaking::shaking::shaking::shaking:

Proud of it?

Do you have ANY idea what problems we have had with water quality issues on our trails?

Do you know what we just went thru on the Rubicon?

Do you have any idea how much ammo you have just given the other side?


I am glad your family is safe. but you are an idiot. :mad3:

http://www.littlepassengerseats.com/fj_cruiser.htm

Apparently FJ Cruisers have a 3rd row seat option just like my 80 series cruiser.

It can't be that easy for the "other side" to get ammo.
Any jerk off the streets can come onto one of our trails and do something stupid - and that should NOT reflect on us.

EDIT: Sorry that I don't get it, Cruzila. I got the best intentions and sometimes come up a little shortsighted. Again, my apologies.

Yota Up, you do not get it.

This guy is not affiliated with us.

He drives a 4 wheel drive so that makes him AFFILLATED with us.

Glad you are all safe

:shaking::shaking::shaking::shaking:

Proud of it?

Do you have ANY idea what problems we have had with water quality issues on our trails?

Do you know what we just went thru on the Rubicon?

Do you have any idea how much ammo you have just given the other side?


I am glad your family is safe. but you are an idiot. :mad3:

DID I SAY I WAS PROUD OF IT??? Posters asked for pics; I set the link.

You think THIS is bad? I've had CBS, NBC, and now FOX at my home (which I'm losing) for interviews this afternoon! NOT my idea, but I figured I better do the interviews to put the situation into context, rather than let enviros at the stations go hogwild. Watch your news tonight. I did what I could. This sucks for me! It's MY family, MY rig, and MY face in the photos, the Net, and TV! :(

(CHP sent photos to the news; the news folks then tracked us down.)

And it was YOUR decision.......

DID I SAY I WAS PROUD OF IT??? Posters asked for pics; I set the link.

You think THIS is bad? I've had CBS, NBC, and now FOX at my home (which I'm losing) for interviews this afternoon! NOT my idea, but I figured I better do the interviews to put the situation into context, rather than let enviros at the stations go hogwild. Watch your news tonight. I did what I could. This sucks for me! It's MY family, MY rig, and MY face in the photos, the Net, and TV! :(

(CHP sent photos to the news; the news folks then tracked us down.)

If you are losing your home, why are you out wheeling? Can afford to go exploring, but not pay your house payment? :mad3::shaking:

DID I SAY I WAS PROUD OF IT??? Posters asked for pics; I set the link.

You think THIS is bad? I've had CBS, NBC, and now FOX at my home (which I'm losing) for interviews this afternoon! NOT my idea, but I figured I better do the interviews to put the situation into context, rather than let enviros at the stations go hogwild. Watch your news tonight. I did what I could. This sucks for me! It's MY family, MY rig, and MY face in the photos, the Net, and TV! :(

(CHP sent photos to the news; the news folks then tracked us down.)

wonderful

Well I hope you find someway to put a positive spin on it

If you are losing your home, why are you out wheeling? Can afford to go exploring, but not pay your house payment? :mad3::shaking:

WTF? House payment - $5,000 per month. Wheeling - tank of gas.

on the news now, gay! this is just terrible for us.


"a modified machine!!" lmao

WTF? House payment - $5,000 per month. Wheeling - tank of gas, a FJ, and some bad publicity for the wheeling community.

Fixed

Oh, and fawk you for not paying your house payment so the rest of us can though taxes and devaluation on our properties because we pay the piper.

wonderful

Well I hope you find someway to put a positive spin on it

CBS just aired their version. They claimed I was in Fordyce Lake. :confused:

And they aired my admitting it was a "bad call." Making ME look like the ass, not the OHV community in general.

wonderful

Well I hope you find someway to put a positive spin on it


nope just looked pathetic, in no way is that interview going to help us or stop the greenies.

"hes going again , just not through the creek."

Fixed

Oh, and fawk you for not paying your house payment so the rest of us can though taxes and devaluation on our properties because we pay the piper.

Laid off... no job... working diligently to find one... WTH else can I do? If I could make my payment, I WOULD! :mad3:

YOU THINK I LIKE LOSING MY HOUSE?? WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU???? :mad3: :mad3: :mad3:

working diligently to find one...

We can tell by watching the news....

I know that it is a hard time right now but working diligently to find a job doesn't look to be the case. You are right, I am an angry prick and probably shouldn't have said that, I just can't stand seeing people playing on my dollar.

CBS just aired their version. They claimed I was in Fordyce Lake. :confused:

And they aired my admitting it was a "bad call." Making ME look like the ass, not the OHV community in general.

I just saw your interview and heard how experienced you are off roading and how you plan on go again once you fix your junk. I saw you and your family making jokes about what happen and it seemed like no big deal. no where in the interview did you thank the people who helped recover your junk and the pirate board .
people like you close trails. you and your little rig had no business crossing the creek this time of year. You should keep your pavement pounder on the road. you attract the wrong type of attention. :mad3:

I just saw your interview and heard how experienced you are off roading and how you plan on go again once you fix your junk. I saw you and your family making jokes about what happen and it seemed like no big deal. no where in the interview did you thank the people who helped recover your junk and the pirate board .
people like you close trails. you and your little rig had no business crossing the creek this time of year. You should keep your pavement pounder on the road. you attract the wrong type of attention. :mad3:

It is better to laugh than to cry - this man has something to cry about!
As for what the media decides to put on the air, that is their decision, not the one interviewed.

I just saw your interview and heard how experienced you are off roading and how you plan on go again once you fix your junk. I saw you and your family making jokes about what happen and it seemed like no big deal. no where in the interview did you thank the people who helped recover your junk and the pirate board .
people like you close trails. you and your little rig had no business crossing the creek this time of year. You should keep your pavement pounder on the road. you attract the wrong type of attention. :mad3:

For those of you unfamiliar with news reporting, the newspeople EDIT the hell out of what you say. I DID thank people, etc.; they just left that part on the cutting room floor.

I just finished the FOX interview, and worked very hard to stress the hard work we did later that night to get the engine above waterline to avoid environmental impact, etc. I specifically asked the reporter to express how concerned OHV users are for the environment and that we work hard at all times - even when emergencies happen - to minimize the environmental impact. We'll see what they actually show.

I DO NOT LIKE THAT THIS HAPPENED. I'M SORRY IT HAPPENED. I CAN'T GO BACK IN TIME TO MAKE A DIFFERENT DECISION; I'm trying to fix the situation the best I can right now.

And while it may seem "little," this is the first time I've not been able to get my rig through a difficult spot. My rig...

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa242/Gaius_Caligula/1.jpg

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa242/Gaius_Caligula/2.jpg

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa242/Gaius_Caligula/3.jpg

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa242/Gaius_Caligula/4.jpg

sucks to be you right now , you might want to pick another hobby , you are not going to win any popularity contest on the trail , but I am glad you and your family are ok

Shit happens. It sucks that your stuff got screwed up. Bad shit happens to everyone you just happened to get yours plastered all over the news.:flipoff2:

On a side note. it sucks when you are laid off. Their aint shit for jobs or side jobs. I know im laid off too. I am fairly diverse and their are very few jobsto be had versus all the people looking for one. So a tank of gas is a small price to pay if it gives you some relief from life.

Yeah it is some bad publicity for the wheeling community but its no different from some YAHOO driving through flood waters, which is probably one of those tree huggers anyways lol.

Look dude, I don't know your situation, but the way I see it, and it appears here, is that you risked your family's safety and well being by not preparing for this trip. You obviously don't have experience with the Fordyce Trail because you didn't know to check flows beforehand AND you crossed in the wrong fawking spot for that particular part of the creek.

All that being said, you also admit to losing your job, your home and now your frigging vehicle. So with no vehicle, how the hell do you propose getting a job so that you can afford to pay a $5000 a month house payment????

I dunno man, I just think you could have found a much less hazardous way to spend your Memorial Day weekend that still would not have cost very much dough.

Look dude, I don't know your situation, but the way I see it, and it appears here, is that you risked your family's safety and well being by not preparing for this trip. You obviously don't have experience with the Fordyce Trail because you didn't know to check flows beforehand AND you crossed in the wrong fawking spot for that particular part of the creek.

All that being said, you also admit to losing your job, your home and now your frigging vehicle. So with no vehicle, how the hell do you propose getting a job so that you can afford to pay a $5000 a month house payment????

I dunno man, I just think you could have found a much less hazardous way to spend your Memorial Day weekend that still would not have cost very much dough.

Also good points....

WTF? House payment - $5,000 per month. Wheeling - tank of gas.

That's a STIFF house payment. What makes you think you could afford that and a new FJ too? You either make bank, or don't have a clue on cash flow.

Hell, the wifey and I are sweating over a $10K used car, and I make six-figures a year with no dependents or house payment. You are in over your head in more than just water.....

Good luck. Bail fast.

Look dude, I don't know your situation, but the way I see it, and it appears here, is that you risked your family's safety and well being by not preparing for this trip. You obviously don't have experience with the Fordyce Trail because you didn't know to check flows beforehand AND you crossed in the wrong fawking spot for that particular part of the creek.

All that being said, you also admit to losing your job, your home and now your frigging vehicle. So with no vehicle, how the hell do you propose getting a job so that you can afford to pay a $5000 a month house payment????

I dunno man, I just think you could have found a much less hazardous way to spend your Memorial Day weekend that still would not have cost very much dough.

No shit. I am glad the guy and his family are okay but this situation was just a hair short of a Darwin award, much like everyone else who has died in Nevada County and other Sierra Nevada rivers so far this year (and every year this time). Know what you are getting yourself into, don't get yourself into it before you know.

Hey FJCryptofag, you need to answer up to the questions being asked of you over in Chit Chat, you posted up your plea over there too remember?

Wow, I would say we are being pretty harsh.

That whole eating our young thing.

Anybody remember the last three times that was done on PBB??

Just saw the Fox report.

+ They mentioned that he cares about the environment and went back "with a friend" to recover the vehicle.

- Unfortunately, they did not air the thank-you to our community. :(


Maybe one of these days a report will surface to show how much we really care. Until then, we will continue to do the RIGHT thing, at every opportunity, even if it all takes place in silence. :)

this is a perfect example of how one person can screw up so many others hard work trying to keep that trail open. Great job, when they slap the gate up I'll think of you, and repugnant things like:

This sucks for me! It's MY family, MY rig, and MY face in the photos, the Net, and TV!

sometimes its not really all about you.

and small potatoes compared to the ammo you've given to people trying to shut the woods down. FYI- the problem with your house and getting stuck in the river, probably caused by the same thing, if you think it over reeeallly hard.

Glad you guys didn't get hurt.

I understand the feelings of resentment. I find myself torn between being angry that this happened, while at the same time feeling that we need to do a better job to keep this from happening in the future....So instead of just bashing this guy to death, why dont we turn this into a thread on how FOF can assist in making sure that this type of situation does not happen again.

Would signage help? Do we need to be more forceful in our posts about the dangers of crossing with the river levels, etc????

Just hoping that our community can learn from this mistake and turn it into something positive going forward...

Hoping that you guys have some ideas as to how we can help.....if we can of course???

Just saw the Fox report.

+ They mentioned that he cares about the environment and went back "with a friend" to recover the vehicle.

- Unfortunately, they did not air the thank-you to our community. :(


Maybe one of these days a report will surface to show how much we really care. Until then, we will continue to do the RIGHT thing, at every opportunity, even if it all takes place in silence. :)

The stories were supposed to air with the following text (like an AP story repeated by each news outlet)... notice how much editing each channel did:

BACKGROUND

At about lunchtime on Memorial Day, May 25, 2009, Adam White and his wife Joan headed up the legendary, challenging, and well-cared for four-wheeling trail known as Fordyce Creek. The trail, located in the deep Sierra Nevada range north of Cisco Grove off of I-80, winds its way from the Indian Springs OHV Staging Area up through the rugged terrain between Old Man Mountain and Red Mountain on its way to Fordyce Lake. The Fordyce Creek trail crosses a number of small streams, but it also makes three formidable crossings through Fordyce Creek itself, which during spring runoff can move water at an alarming 400+ feet per minute.

The Whites, in their 2007 FJ Cruiser – equipped with a four-inch lift kit, 33” BFG KM2 off road tires, a winch and other trail upgrades designed to minimize environmental impact and maximize mobility – reached the first crossing at about 4:00 p.m. After taking a good hard look at the river crossing, Adam began to make his line through the river. At about mid-river, Adam stopped the FJ, stepped out on his rock rails to check the river depth, which seemed deeper than usual, but still crossable. As they continued, unknown to them, the Fordyce Creek Dam had been releasing increased water all afternoon. The river level was rising rapidly, and the rising water lifted the FJ off the bottom pulling it off the line, downstream, and into a deep hole.

RESCUE EFFORTS

Adam jumped into the fast moving water, unlatched his winch cable, swam to the opposite (and closest shore) to tie-off the FJ with the winch cable wrapped around a large boulder. He then entered the river upstream to swim with the current down to the FJ, tied himself off with a tow rope hooked to the FJ and helped his family up on to the roof. With his family temporarily safe, Adam proceeded to work in the freezing cold water for about a half-hour trying to get the winch to operate in an effort to pull the vehicle out of the river. Nevertheless, with the rising water too cold and too swift eventually covering the front hood (and battery), Adam pulled himself out of the water up to the roof to join his family.

Joan, Adam’s wife, noticed Adam’s lips were blue and he could barely speak with hypothermia setting in from his time in the water. At that point, she used her cell phone (lucky to have service so deep in the backcountry) to call 911. After speaking with the operator and relaying the family’s situation, she hung up, and the family waited.

THE RESCUE

At about 6:00 p.m. PDT, on Memorial Day, CHP helicopter rescue officers Marty Martin and pilot Steve Ward arrived on scene. These officers proceeded to execute an amazing airlift rescue deep in the Sierra Nevada backcountry. Maneuvering their helicopter among huge pine trees – just yards from the rotating helicopter blades – they dropped down to near river level. While Pilot Ward expertly held the large helicopter steady, Officer Martin evacuated a family of six – plus their dog – to safety from the rooftop of a 2007 FJ Cruiser caught mid-river with swift water rising about two feet below the roof of the highly trail-modified SUV in runoff-engorged Fordyce Creek.

Later that evening, Adam, the CHP, and other four-wheel enthusiasts in the area pulled the FJ Cruiser out of the water enough to prevent environmental damage by getting the engine above the waterline. The next day, Adam and a friend returned to fully extract the vehicle using another winch and a snatch block.

The family is safe and happy to have this behind them.

this is a perfect example of how one person can screw up so many others hard work trying to keep that trail open. Great job, when they slap the gate up I'll think of you, and repugnant things like:



sometimes its not really all about you.

and small potatoes compared to the ammo you've given to people trying to shut the woods down. FYI- the problem with your house and getting stuck in the river, probably caused by the same thing, if you think it over reeeallly hard.

Glad you guys didn't get hurt.

Wasn't saying it was all about me; I was indicating that I wasn't enjoying the aftermath of my obvious mistake. (Others had made comments suggesting I was proud of the situation or having fun with it, which is NOT the case at all.)

That's a STIFF house payment. What makes you think you could afford that and a new FJ too? You either make bank, or don't have a clue on cash flow.

Hell, the wifey and I are sweating over a $10K used car, and I make six-figures a year with no dependents or house payment. You are in over your head in more than just water.....

Good luck. Bail fast.

LOL. I WAS making bank. Layoffs suck. :( End of story.

I understand the feelings of resentment. I find myself torn between being angry that this happened, while at the same time feeling that we need to do a better job to keep this from happening in the future....So instead of just bashing this guy to death, why dont we turn this into a thread on how FOF can assist in making sure that this type of situation does not happen again.

Would signage help? Do we need to be more forceful in our posts about the dangers of crossing with the river levels, etc????

Just hoping that our community can learn from this mistake and turn it into something positive going forward...

Hoping that you guys have some ideas as to how we can help.....if we can of course???




flaming this guy isnt going to help the cause of keeping the trail open....shit happens he made a mistake by crossing threw when the water was high....im pretty sure there are other people on this board that have gone threw a water crossing at one time and hydrolocked their rig too


he made the effort to keep his rig from going farther down stream than it did and he went back and recovered his rig too...im not saying it didnt do any damage to the water or shit like that but he went back and got it out of the creek and off the trail


i lost my house last year too times are hard and flaming him on losing his house isnt going to do shit about him gettin stuck in the creek.....


my idea is have dreamflows up here at all times so people know when the water is going to be high and fast and if you cant make it threw then stay the fawk out of the water or off the trail.....everyone is concerned about the trails closing around here start making ideas to keep this from happening again


glad you and your family are okay wish you the best of luck on your rig and house

http://www.theunion.com/article/20090528/NEWS/905279928/1066&ParentProfile=1053
That sucks man, i hope your rig isn't ruined. Goodluck.

You never answered my question about insurance.

You'll have to excuse me for not being on top of things right now. Working 16 hour days for a bit.

I deleted the other thread so we don't have two going about the same thing. Nothing about the content just creates confusion. I think they could be deleted from all the other forums as well but that's not my call. We don't need this discussion in 4 or 5 places on the board.

My take on this is that we can't and shouldn't just try and hide this stuff. Everyone knows we cross the river and sometimes stuff happens. Even poor judgement. We need to show that we recreate responsibly and when something happens we do the best we can to mitigate the effects. In short we need to fight for the right to use the trail even if that usage sometimes has consequences.

I am putting out a plea to everyone now to leave Adam alone as far as the bashing goes. He made his decision and he's the one who has to live with it. He also apparently has other concerns going on. I do not want to delete this thread. It serves to show a couple of things. One is what can happen when you choose to cross the river at times of high flow and when there is plenty of information about the hazards. Two is the responsible concerns of just about everyone on the PB about the environmental effects of swamping a vehicle in the water. This thread also shows how hard Adam tried to get the rig out of the water as quick as he could even going back immeadiately the next day to do even more.

We have Webilt stepping up with offers of help as well as other individuals. I had information coming at me from about 5 different ways which shows how good our communication is within the off road network.

We also see the news media jumping on a sensational story just like they do with everything nowadays and putting their our spin on it. Another good point we need to be acutely aware of.

I hope my response satsfies most people. I intend to revisit this when I have a bit more time. I had to quickly scan the thread and post something since that is what is expected of me. If I left something out or made a blatantly stupid statement about he whole thing please give me the benefit of the doubt. I simply don't have tons of time to devote to it right at this moment.

great reply bret. I would love to put my .02 in, but enough has been said. lets hope it comes to a rest and others learn from this.

Thanks Ryan.

I'll add one other thought and it's sort of a repost.

Water release is high and it's going to stay that way due to snow pack and PG&E work projects. I have posted a schedule elsewhere in the forum.

It's a guideline and subject to change!

There will be a few times of low release. Hold off and use the trail then and give yourself some leeway for getting off the trail before the scheduled increase just in case.

For all other times just stay off the trail or at least just use it to the first water crossing or go camping at Fordyce Lake. Drive into Meadow when the snow goes away and access the trial down to the third water crossing.

Don't cross the river. It may not be a popular stance to take but everyone is concerned about water quality and safety. I have just given everyone a way to still enjoy the trail while not risking either. This is what I intend to do this year and I recommend it to everyone else.

Just a suggestion Bret, and to tag along with what someone else posted. Would it be possible or plausable to post a sign at the trailhead and maybe even just the first crossing warning about flows? Maybe give a number to call or web site to visit to check??

I would love to see something like an LED board with current flow information but that's a bit much to ask. :)

We've been talking about a bit more informational signage at the trail heads. In the works. Good suggestion.

I understand the feelings of resentment. I find myself torn between being angry that this happened, while at the same time feeling that we need to do a better job to keep this from happening in the future....So instead of just bashing this guy to death, why dont we turn this into a thread on how FOF can assist in making sure that this type of situation does not happen again.

Would signage help? Do we need to be more forceful in our posts about the dangers of crossing with the river levels, etc????

Just hoping that our community can learn from this mistake and turn it into something positive going forward...

Hoping that you guys have some ideas as to how we can help.....if we can of course???

Adam, it's good to hear your family is ok.

I agree we need to do as much as we can to educate people. We can post on this forum and say "Water levels are high stay out of the creek" (which we did in like 3 threads). We could post the link to dream flows (which has been done 100 times). We can cancel a FOF clean up because it is maybe unsafe to cross the river (which we did).

If someone does not read PBB then it does not help.

We could put a sight up at the staging area with a warning about crossing the creek but were does it stop. Does someone need to stand at the trail head and say "Don't cross the river you might not make it?".

One question for Adam:

You came on Pirate asking for help. You have been a member since August 2008. Did you read warnings in this forum and decide to go or did you not know anything of the Fordyce forum?

This will help us educate people in the future. If people are reading the Forum and still taking the chance than there is nothing we can do to stop them. If they don't read this stuff than maybe we can find another way to help.

Edit..

I would love to see something like an LED board with current flow information but that's a bit much to ask. :)

LED's for night crossings? I think for like a hundred years the preferred method is a stick with red and white strips marking the water level. Dam operators use Cubic Feet per Second, but everyone else just wants to know how deep the water is. Since afternoon melting adds to the flow the number released from the dam not the total this time of year. Adam did what most of us do, watch other cross and see how deep it is. I know there is no way to put a stick up like you see on a bridge, but maybe something

my idea is have dreamflows up here at all times so people know when the water is going to be high and fast and if you cant make it threw then stay the fawk out of the water or off the trail.....everyone is concerned about the trails closing around here start making ideas to keep this from happening again


The Dreamflows graphs and link are in the first sticky in the this section.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=692095

The Dreamflows graphs and link are in the first sticky in the this section.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=692095
SEEMS HE CAN'T READ, SO HIS IDEA DOESN'T EVEN WORK FOR HIMSELF:p

My idea for a sign:

(and yes, the bottom part is just a joke)

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j222/kurtuleas/Slide1-4.jpg

The Dreamflows graphs and link are in the first sticky in the this section.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=692095

i just saw that....people should use that all the time or just stay off the trail when the flow is high

My idea for a sign:

(and yes, the bottom part is just a joke)

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=445477&stc=1&d=1243526403

no workie

SEEMS HE CAN'T READ, SO HIS IDEA DOESN'T EVEN WORK FOR HIMSELF:p



i can read...i just didnt see the sitcky till this morning when i got on here.

My idea for a sign:

(and yes, the bottom part is just a joke)

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j222/kurtuleas/Slide1-4.jpg


Add a little of this to it so the liberals can't blame you for blood loss when not reading and understanding things ;)

[QUOTE=FJCryptographer;9870390]Was able to get the FJ closer to shore w/ helps of CHP Rescue Team and some kind 4x4s in the area. CHP Rescue Team called mission quits when thunder storm and darkness moved in. :(

We were the kind 4x4s that got him partially out befor the chp stopped us due to weather! they said if we continued to try they would arrest us! Sorry we couldnt take it farther but at least we tried! here are some pics:
http://s563.photobucket.com/albums/ss73/ynotnorcal/

pics broken.

Please choose the pictures you post wisely.

Dude if you are sweetin it over 10K car and you make 6 figure a year with no house payment you should'nt be giving him any advice!:flipoff2:


He is a jackass for doing what he did and he is now paying for it.:flipoff2:


That's a STIFF house payment. What makes you think you could afford that and a new FJ too? You either make bank, or don't have a clue on cash flow.

Hell, the wifey and I are sweating over a $10K used car, and I make six-figures a year with no dependents or house payment. You are in over your head in more than just water.....

Good luck. Bail fast.

we need a bridge to protect us from our selves (with anti suicide nets):shaking:

We were the kind 4x4s that got him partially out befor the chp stopped us due to weather!

toyotony, you guys are awesome. Nice rigs, too.
:smokin:

Dude if you are sweetin it over 10K car and you make 6 figure a year with no house payment you should'nt be giving him any advice!:flipoff2:


He is a jackass for doing what he did and he is now paying for it.:flipoff2:

Ah nope he is not a jackass he doesn't meet the club requirements

I think this thread should get deleted. Hell my thread on a lost wallet and writing on a stupid rock with charcoal got deleted.:shaking:

Everybody bashing this guy makes all of us look even worse since you are attracting more attention to this guy making a bad decision. Everybody knows that the anti's follow these threads.

Delete this already.

I think this thread should get deleted. Hell my thread on a lost wallet and writing on a stupid rock with charcoal got deleted.:shaking:

Everybody bashing this guy makes all of us look even worse since you are attracting more attention to this guy making a bad decision. Everybody knows that the anti's follow these threads.

Delete this already.
bs, this is a good record of how we do not aprove of this guy
him going on every tv station that offered is what attracts attention....never talk to a reporter...ever:shaking:

bs, this is a good record of how we do not aprove of this guy
him going on every tv station that offered is what attracts attention....never talk to a reporter...ever:shaking:

I WOULD LIKE TO KINDLY REFUSE TO COMMENT ON THIS MATTER AT THIS TIME.

That is all the reporter should ever hear. Turn and walk away. Reporters also use a method that they ask you a question, you answer it, they leave the mic in front of your face and say nothing so you start rambling again to break the awkward silence and next thing you know, they put what they want together to make you sound however they want the story to go. Everyone read that first line 5 more times, hopefully not, but chances are good that at some point in your life you are going to have to use it (or wish you would have). It is the same deal that cops do, they don't usually have enough evidence to arrest you till you tell them the whole story in turn incriminating yourself (or making a story worth publishing on the reporters side).

I WOULD LIKE TO KINDLY REFUSE TO COMMENT ON THIS MATTER AT THIS TIME.

That is all the reporter should ever hear. Turn and walk away. Reporters also use a method that they ask you a question, you answer it, they leave the mic in front of your face and say nothing so you start rambling again to break the awkward silence and next thing you know, they put what they want together to make you sound however they want the story to go. Everyone read that first line 5 more times, hopefully not, but chances are good that at some point in your life you are going to have to use it (or wish you would have). It is the same deal that cops do, they don't usually have enough evidence to arrest you till you tell them the whole story in turn incriminating yourself (or making a story worth publishing on the reporters side).

perfect
there is a great youtube video on "NEVER TALK TO THE POLICE" by a lawyer, very good, inicent people can get themselves inall kinds of problems talking to the cops , it's crazy
part 1-2-3

YouTube - Don't Talk to Cops, Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik)

perfect
there is a great youtube video on "NEVER TALK TO THE POLICE" by a lawyer, very good, inicent people can get themselves inall kinds of problems talking to the cops , it's crazy



Thanks for that. However, part 2 is unavailable. Not just on youtube, but metcafe and anywhere else.

It appears that the officer did some damage control. Apparently, whatever he had to say was REAL good. Because there was a lot of effort to ensure his side is no longer out there.

Any link to part 2 with the cop out there? I tried and every link I click won't work. A little suspcious...

Somebody out there must have archived his statements, maybe it's available in text to read.

Thanks for that. However, part 2 is unavailable. Not just on youtube, but metcafe and anywhere else.

It appears that the officer did some damage control. Apparently, whatever he had to say was REAL good. Because there was a lot of effort to ensure his side is no longer out there.

Any link to part 2 with the cop out there? I tried and every link I click won't work. A little suspcious...

Somebody out there must have archived his statements, maybe it's available in text to read.



I'm watching Part 2 right now.


YouTube - Don't Talk to Cops, Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08fZQWjDVKE&feature=related)

I'm watching Part 2 right now.


WTF?

I swear I sat there and clicked EVERY link that came up in google's first page of links, and 100% of them were not working. ???

Oh well, works now. Thanks. I'll take off the tinfoil hat now. :)

PS: Still a little surprised to see a cop spill the beans like that. I wonder if he's no longer with the force, but changed gears and going to become a lawyer instead. Can't really see his supervisors being happy with him for stepping over to the other side like that.

Interesting video.

this guy led children into a very dangerous situation by himself. now hes posting stupid poser shots of his mall rig; wow.:flipoff2:

A HUGE THANK YOU goes out from me, my family, my dog, and my junk to the PBB community!!! At least THREE kind PBB members assisted me in huge ways. First in assisting the day of with the CHP to pull my junk into the shallow water (where it was originally, I could not stand-up a few feet in front of the FJ, as a deep underwater trench was there, waiting to swallow my junk in the freezing cold runoff water). Second, in driving me in the next day and getting the rig the rest of the way to shore and driving me out. Third, driving me in again yesterday and towing my dead junk from the first Fordyce Creek crossing to Indian Springs / Eagle Lakes exit.

THANK YOU; THANK YOU; THANK YOU!!!! http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/grinser/grinning-smiley-003.gif

You never answered my question about insurance.
Insurance is current.

One question for Adam:

You came on Pirate asking for help. You have been a member since August 2008. Did you read warnings in this forum and decide to go or did you not know anything of the Fordyce forum?

This will help us educate people in the future. If people are reading the Forum and still taking the chance than there is nothing we can do to stop them. If they don't read this stuff than maybe we can find another way to help.

My internet access was down for the entire weekend, and I hadn't planned to go up Fordyce until Sunday. As to the crossing, I determined that if I saw others going through, I'd be okay. I've been there and done it before. I was not new to this trail. The line I picked is not the usual one, but it's the one people were using. I figured there must be a reason why. I figured wrong. :(

[QUOTE=FJCryptographer;9870390]Was able to get the FJ closer to shore w/ helps of CHP Rescue Team and some kind 4x4s in the area. CHP Rescue Team called mission quits when thunder storm and darkness moved in. :(

We were the kind 4x4s that got him partially out befor the chp stopped us due to weather! they said if we continued to try they would arrest us! Sorry we couldnt take it farther but at least we tried! here are some pics:
http://s563.photobucket.com/albums/ss73/ynotnorcal/

A HUGE THANKS GOES OUT TO YOU GUYS AS WELL!!! http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/grinser/grinning-smiley-003.gif

If the media has pics and interviews from the police that did the rescue, the media will CRUCIFY you if you don't do the interviews to try and do whatever damage control you can.

In such a situation, the media ALREADY have the evidence they need to turn it into an environmental bash party toward our sport. NOTE: THAT DID NOT HAPPEN HERE. The interviews and comments by the reporters did NOT enviro bash us; but the certainly would have if I had refused the interviews. No questions about it.

A HUGE THANK YOU goes out from me, my family, my dog, and my junk to the PBB community!!! At least THREE kind PBB members assisted me in huge ways. First in assisting the day of with the CHP to pull my junk into the shallow water (where it was originally, I could not stand-up a few feet in front of the FJ, as a deep underwater trench was there, waiting to swallow my junk in the freezing cold runoff water). Second, in driving me in the next day and getting the rig the rest of the way to shore and driving me out. Third, driving me in again yesterday and towing my dead junk from the first Fordyce Creek crossing to Indian Springs / Eagle Lakes exit.

THANK YOU; THANK YOU; THANK YOU!!!! http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/grinser/grinning-smiley-003.gif

Are you going to tell us who they are so we can thank them too?

Are you going to tell us who they are so we can thank them too?

x2.

Don't keep the real heros in the dark while you take the spolight...with your red text, pics of your rig, appearance on the news, many many many many posts, etc. :shaking:

Hey FJCryptographer!

You will do us a huge favor by stop making comments or fighting back and go away for good. I think you have enough to say and it is time for you to move on and never bother us again. Let us the PPB community resolve this mess as best as we can. We can do this without you.

Are you going to tell us who they are so we can thank them too?

They've requested to remain annon., and I will respect their requests.

Hey FJCryptographer!

You will do us a huge favor by stop making comments or fighting back and go away for good. I think you have enough to say and it is time for you to move on and never bother us again. Let us the PPB community resolve this mess as best as we can. We can do this without you.

I'm glad you speak for everyone here on the PBB :shaking:

If all of the hate in this thread was focused in a usable effort towards a greeny organization, instead of a fellow wheeler, the green community would not have us by the balls every time we turn around.

(edit) Glad everything turned out well for the family, this whole situation could have been a lot worse.

I'm glad you speak for everyone here on the PBB :shaking:

If all of the hate in this thread was focused in a usable effort towards a greeny organization, instead of a fellow wheeler, the green community would not have us by the balls every time we turn around.

(edit) Glad everything turned out well for the family, this whole situation could have been a lot worse.

I don't consider this guy a "fellow wheeler"
just like I don't think punk kids that toss there trash on the trail, blaze by passes etc "fellow wheelers"

as you can see, education has fell on def ears here, + he is still insisting he did nothing wrong, just a misstake....

Darren, they are all "fellow wheelers" whether we like it or not. Not just by your or my definition, but by the definition of others from the outside who will hold all of us liable.


It doesn't matter what you or I think of this guy and his judgement, what matters is we find a way to keep people informed in the future either through info or signage. I don't like hand holding for people like this, but as four-wheeling continues to gain popularity, it is becoming necessary to find new ways to inform people.

Darren, they are all "fellow wheelers" whether we like it or not. Not just by your or my definition, but by the definition of others from the outside who will hold all of us liable.


It doesn't matter what you or I think of this guy and his judgement, what matters is we find a way to keep people informed in the future either through info or signage. I don't like hand holding for people like this, but as four-wheeling continues to gain popularity, it is becoming necessary to find new ways to inform people.

I agree with all you said;)

Could we please leave the past in the past.How long are we going to exert our energy on this!Retarded people are going to show up everywhere,There isn't to much we can do about it.Last weekend was a perfect example of people who should stay away.A trail labled as difficult should have made you and your family think twice before going.:shaking:

Hey man, Its Rick with Dependable Tow!!!

I just wanted to say im glad you got your rig out, and thanks for the phone call anyway!!! It was pretty cool of those guys to help you get your L.C. out!!!

I know every body was pretty hard on you, but lets face it, we all make mistakes!!! I have been wheeling longer than have of these guys have been born, and im not afraid to say i have pulled some pretty bone head moves myself, lets just hope we have all learned from this lesson!!!


talk at you later!!!

Rick

I read the thread with mixed emotions, and am glad it did not get deleted. Enough has been said, enough bashing happened, but hey, this is a true example of what to do and what not to do. Mistakes did happen, and am sure Adam is looking back and reflecting, and am glad his family is safe.

At the same time it is good to hear that the community acted fast to help someone in need, being their fault or not. Similar incidents happen every year with rock climbers in Yosemite, and people still bond together and help, and that is what i think we need to continue doing.

My .02 cents is we need to educate our own, and help each other when we can.

yep it was definitely a shitty situation, and i am sure he has learned from his mistake. no need to ban him or keep giving the guy a bad time. lets move forward and get over it.

From a tech standpoint, and don't get the wrong idea because I hate that this happened, if this had been a buggy, Jeep or "real" FJ, it probably wouldn't have floated away at that cfm rate. The sealed cabin of an SUV is boat-like in water. How would everyone have felt about this accident if my CJ-5 with the same size tires and clearence had crossed the stream in front of him, then he did the same thing and floated away? I mean we all push the limits of our cars and unfortunately we don't know what they are until it's too late! Look, I'm not condoning this and to push the limits with someone else in the car, like family, isn't very bright but it could have happened to any of us!. Before we were "smart" about trail use many of us would have done this before...well maybe around a campfire we have seen something similar from someone we know:flipoff2: Damn SUV's on the trails:grinpimp:

From a tech standpoint, and don't get the wrong idea because I hate that this happened, if this had been a buggy, Jeep or "real" FJ, it probably wouldn't have floated away at that cfm rate. The sealed cabin of an SUV is boat-like in water.


So, the future sign should have included in the instructions for all SUVs to open doors before crossing. :)

:laughing:

Dead in the water, that thing is getting pushed down stream reguardless at 400+.

I read the thread with mixed emotions, and am glad it did not get deleted. Enough has been said, enough bashing happened, but hey, this is a true example of what to do and what not to do. Mistakes did happen, and am sure Adam is looking back and reflecting, and am glad his family is safe.

At the same time it is good to hear that the community acted fast to help someone in need, being their fault or not. Similar incidents happen every year with rock climbers in Yosemite, and people still bond together and help, and that is what i think we need to continue doing.

My .02 cents is we need to educate our own, and help each other when we can.

Thanks for the support in not deleting it. Exactly why I am not anxious to delete controversial threads. There are lessons to be learned.

But of course if all the people concerned ask for it to be deleted then of course we will do so.

Article in June 1, 2009 Mountain Democrat (see page 1), is very complimentary towards PBB and it's care of Fordyce Creek in relation to this incident and in general. If someone has e-access to the M.D., please post up the text of the article. Thx!

Daring California Highway Patrol helicopter rescue saves EDH family from raging waters

May 31, 2009 13:45

The White family of El Dorado Hills will remember Memorial Day 2009 as the day a pair of steely-nerved CHP helicopter flight officers plucked them from the icy waters of the flooded Fordyce Creek, where they spent a couple frightening hours stranded on the roof of their submerged 4x4.

The adventure began on Monday morning, when Adam White loaded up his wife, four kids and dog into the family’s Toyota FJ Cruiser and set out for the Fordyce Creek Trail, an extremely challenging 9.5-mile boulder-studded route north of I-80, above Yuba Pass.

The legendary trail is much-loved, and cared for by the “Friends of Fordyce,” an environmentally conscious group of four-wheelers. They’ve recently launched a Website with current trail and stream conditions, along with a link to Pirare4x4.com, a popular forum for serious off-roaders.

The site warns of the trail’s challenging climbs and hazardous water crossings, especially in the spring, when snowmelt can turn Fordyce Creek into a raging river.

On May 18, Friends of Fordyce President Bret Preble posted a warning that the crossings were “deep and fast,” suggesting that anyone attempting the trail on Memorial Day Weekend “plan for the worst and don’t assume you’ll be home on time.” He reported that the water level at the first crossing, where the White family got stranded, “rose a foot and a half during the day this weekend.”

But Adam White didn’t see that warning, or the links to the flows from Fordyce dam.

In a phone interview later in the week, White explained that he tried to check the status of trail and creek before departing with his family, but his home internet connection was down. Knowing that the trail would be full of rock hoppers on Memorial Day, he fatefully decided that checking with other off-roaders before attempting the first crossing would suffice.

During the interview, White explained that he and his family are experienced four-wheelers, with the knowledge and equipment to tackle challenging routes like the Fordyce Creek Trail safely. His rig, a trail-modified Toyota FJ Cruiser, is the latest in Toyota’s line of Land Cruisers, all capable off-road vehicles. Both he and his oldest son have been trained in 4x4 backcountry extraction techniques, he said.

Shortly before 4 p.m. White passed several other 4x4s that had successfully navigated the first crossing and assumed that it was safe. He later realized that the 4x4s that crossed before him probably had less “float area” than his family sized Cruiser.

The creek was rising. Extra runoff into Fordyce Lake increased the dam release, while snow melting directly into the creek on the hot afternoon exacerbated the flow increase. “We got a double whammy,” said White.

Halfway across White stopped to confirm his “line,” the optimal route through the shallowest point in the creek bed. “It looked deep but still crossable,” he said.

But the flow was deceiving. As he continued, the current lifted the Cruiser off the bottom, pushing the 4,300-pound SUV six yards downstream into a deeper hole.

Adam White saw the turbulent whitewater immediately downstream, and directed his attention to preventing any further downstream slippage.

He entered the 45 degree water, freed his winch cable and swam to shore. After securing the cable to a large boulder, he reentered the raging creek upstream, and let the current push him back to his family.

Noticing for the first time that the water was rising, he got his family onto the roof of the Cruiser.

White battled the frigid water and strong current for another half hour, trying to winch the vehicle out of the river. But the rising water eventually covered the hood, drowning the battery and curtailing any hopes of self-rescue.

When he joined his family on the roof, they reported that his lips were blue. Hypothermia was setting in. Joan White called 911.

California Highway Patrol Flight Officers Steve Ward and Marty Martain arrived an hour later in the Valley Division Air Operations helicopter. Martain told Mother Lode News that Fordyce Creek had risen to the Cruiser’s door handles when they spotted it.

“About 50 feet downstream it drops into a canyon full of class 5 rapids,” said Martain. “If one of those kids got tossed off (the roof of the Cruiser) it would be a disaster.”

Ward found a flat rock and set the helicopter down. With the sky darkening they formulated a risky rescue plan, and notified the Whites.

“Every time we took someone off that roof we lightened the load and risked flipping the vehicle, tossing everyone else into the creek,” said Martain.

With thunderstorms threatening and the closest land-based backup hours away, “We had no time to wait for backup and set up the right downstream support,” he said.

The helicopter blades spun dangerously close to creek-side tree branches as Ward maneuvered the rescue chopper over the family. He dropped down to river level and held it steady while Martain collected the three youngest children first, Parker, 4, Milan, 6 and Sydney, 9.

“Their eyes were big as saucers,” said Martain. “The kids were scared but amazingly calm.”

He repeated the procedure a few minutes later for the two adults, oldest son Austin, 11 and Patriot, the Boston Terrier.

White said he was confident in his children’s emotional fortitude, but was concerned that the dog might refuse Martain. “But he was so happy to get off that FJ roof that he jumped right in.”

Ironically, two well-equipped four wheelers came along shortly after the rescue. With their help, White got the Land Cruisier out of the deep water, relieving his concern that gas and oil would leech into the creek overnight.

The helicopter shuttled the Whites to the airport at Blue Canyon. Neighbors picked up the weary family later Monday night.

Aftermath:

Late Monday night, White put out a call for help from the Pirate4x4 forum. He had to endure several posts questioning his judgment for tackling such a dangerous route without a support vehicle, and especially for not consulting their forum before departure.

But mutual assistance is a guiding principle in the 4x4 community. A couple altruistic and well-equipped fellow off-roaders soon volunteered to help extract the disabled Cruiser from the back country.

The rig’s electronics are shot, said White, who hopes that the engine didn’t sustain any permanent damage.

White said he’s looking forward to getting the Cruiser repaired and returning to Fordyce Creek.

“I’ll just be a little more conscious of the stream depths and the effect of the current next time,” he said.

The family is grateful for all the help they received, especially Ward and Martain, the daring CHP helicopter rescue team who deftly plucked them from Fordyce Creek, and put a happy ending on a Memorial Day to remember.

Martain and Ward’s stories don’t all have happy endings. Their five rescues over the holiday weekend included one fatality. That made the White family rescue particularly poignant to Martain. “All the training pays off when you can save a family like that,” he said.

Editor’s note: Unlike emergency medevac helicopter rides, which are often billed to the rescuee, CHP helicopter costs are covered by state vehicle registration fees.

Great article! By the way they must be referring to a new offroad site: "Pirare4x4.com, a popular forum for serious off-roaders." :D

Yes, aside from the typo that does seem to be a pretty good article. If anyone wants to contact the MD and tell them about the mistake that would be great. Otherwise I'll take care of it this evening.

Never mind. I took care of contacting the MD to issue a correction on Pirate's web address.:D

Awesome.

Well, got the news from my insurance company today... my junk is junk. :( Totaled... price to repair exceeds the high blue book value, FTL.

Well, got the news from my insurance company today... my junk is junk. :( Totaled... price to repair exceeds the high blue book value, FTL.

Glad to hear it. Are you done with your five minutes of fame now, are you going to move on? Can we stop talking about YOU now? I really didn't have any intention or aspiration to speak in this thread but after reading for a while it becomes painfully apparent you are a very self involved individual. We've all made mistakes as many here have already stated but when my liberal neighbors, who have never even heard of the Fordyce trail approach me and ask about vehicles broken down in our "precious mountain streams" it becomes painfully obvious how much bad press one person's mistakes can bring down on us all.

Move on, I for one am tired of hearing from you.
Thanks
Tim.

Awesome.

I delete my response, it aint worth it

If it is junked, is it for sale ????? what junkyard is it going to ???

If it is junked, is it for sale ????? what junkyard is it going to ???

don't pm the guy, turn this into a 4 sale add & more attention for him:shaking:

Glad to hear it. Are you done with your five minutes of fame now, are you going to move on? Can we stop talking about YOU now? I really didn't have any intention or aspiration to speak in this thread but after reading for a while it becomes painfully apparent you are a very self involved individual. We've all made mistakes as many here have already stated but when my liberal neighbors, who have never even heard of the Fordyce trail approach me and ask about vehicles broken down in our "precious mountain streams" it becomes painfully obvious how much bad press one person's mistakes can bring down on us all.

Move on, I for one am tired of hearing from you.
Thanks
Tim.

a-fricking-men. Last Thursday I was in a meeting with the OHV Commission (they are an IT customer of mine) and Daphne Greene, Dep. Dir., brought this nonsense up to me because she knows I am a wheeler. I have had enough of your self-important 15 minutes of fame, please just go away.

Maybe a thread lock is in order since this doesn't seem to be going anywhere.

How about it?

Lock this bitch.

maybe a thread lock is in order since this doesn't seem to be going anywhere.

How about it?

please;)

this is why when the yahoos and humpty dumpties on the trail ask me about using the snorkel on my truck in "deep" water I tell them that the snorkel does not make my 4x4 a tycoon class submarine :)

the only lesson to learn here is not to post on an online forum in case of emergency, get out, get back in, get out and keep it a secret especially if they have to bring in the Red October to pull your junk out.

Seven pages is enough. Nothing new to add so we'll lock this and keep it for reference.