: who leaked to the AP?


Never Monday
05-26-2009, 04:18 AM
mainstream discussion is going to make this prep more expensive....:mad3:



Crisis spurs spike in 'suburban survivalists'
May 25 11:44 AM US/Eastern
By GILLIAN FLACCUS

SAN DIEGO (AP) - Six months ago, Jim Wiseman didn't even have a spare nutrition bar in his kitchen cabinet.

Now, the 54-year-old businessman and father of five has a backup generator, a water filter, a grain mill and a 4-foot-tall pile of emergency food tucked in his home in the expensive San Diego suburb of La Jolla.

Wiseman isn't alone. Emergency supply retailers and military surplus stores nationwide have seen business boom in the past few months as an increasing number of Americans spooked by the economy rush to stock up on gear that was once the domain of hardcore survivalists.

These people snapping up everything from water purification tablets to thermal blankets shatter the survivalist stereotype: they are mostly urban professionals with mortgages, SUVs, solid jobs and a twinge of embarrassment about their newfound hobby.

From teachers to real estate agents, these budding emergency gurus say the dismal economy has made them prepare for financial collapse as if it were an oncoming Category 5 hurricane. They worry about rampant inflation, runs on banks, bare grocery shelves and widespread power failures that could make taps run dry.

For Wiseman, a fire protection contractor, that's meant spending roughly $20,000 since September on survival gear—and trying to persuade others to do the same.

"The UPS guy drops things off and he sees my 4-by-8-by-6-foot pile of food and I say 'What are you doing to prepare, buddy?'" he said. "Because there won't be a thing left on any shelf of any supermarket in the country if people's confidence wavers."

The surge in interest in emergency stockpiling has been a bonanza for camping supply companies and military surplus vendors, some of whom report sales spikes of up to 50 percent. These companies usually cater to people preparing for earthquakes or hurricanes, but informal customer surveys now indicate the bump is from first-time shoppers who cite financial, not natural, disaster as their primary concern, they say.

Top sellers include 55-gallon water jugs, waterproof containers, freeze-dried foods, water filters, water purification tablets, glow sticks, lamp oil, thermal blankets, dust masks, first-aid kits and inexpensive tents.

Joe Branin, owner of the online emergency supply store Living Fresh, said he's seen a 700 percent increase in orders for water purification tablets in the past month and a similar increase in orders for sterile water pouches.

He is shipping meals ready to eat and food bars by the case to residential addresses nationwide.

"You're hearing from the people you will always hear from, who will build their own bunkers and stuff," he said. "But then you're hearing from people who usually wouldn't think about this, but now it's in their heads: 'What if something comes to the worst?'"

Online interest in survivalism has increased too. The niche Web site SurvivalBlog.com has seen its page views triple in the past 14 months to nearly 137,000 unique visitors a week. Jim Rawles, a self-described survivalist who runs the site, calls the newcomers "11th hour believers." He charges $100 an hour for phone consulting on emergency preparedness and says that business also has tripled.

"There's so many people who are concerned about the economy that there's a huge interest in preparedness, and it pretty much crosses all lines, social, economic, political and religious," he said. "There's a steep learning curve going on right now."

Art Markman, a cognitive psychologist, said he's not surprised by the reaction to the nation's financial woes—even though it may seem irrational. In an increasingly global and automated society, most people are dependent on strangers and systems they don't understand—and the human brain isn't programmed to work that way.

"We have no real causal understanding of the way our world works at all," said Markman, a professor at the University of Texas, Austin. "When times are good, you trust that things are working, but when times are bad you realize you don't have a clue what you would do if the supermarket didn't have goods on the shelves and that if the banks disappear, you have no idea where your money is."

Those preparing for the worst echo those thoughts and say learning to be self sufficient makes them feel more in control amid mounting uncertainty—even if it seems crazy to their friends and families.

Chris Macera, a 29-year-old IT systems administrator, said he started buying extra food to take advantage of sales after he lost his job and he was rehired elsewhere for $30,000 less.

But Macera, who works in suburban Orange County, said that over several months his mentality began to shift from saving money to preparing for possible financial mayhem. He is motivated, too, by memories of the government paralysis that followed Hurricane Katrina.

He now buys 15 pounds of meat at a time and freezes it, and buys wheat in 50-pound bags, mills it into flour and uses it to bake bread. He checks survivalist Web sites for advice at least once a day and listens to survival podcasts.

"You kind of have to sift through the people with their hats on a little bit too tight," said Macera, who said his colleagues tease him about the grain mill. "But I see a lot of things (on the Web) and they're real common sense-type things."

"I don't want to be a slave to anybody," he said. "The more systems you're dependent on, the more likely things are going to go bad for you."

That's a philosophy shared by Vincent Springer, a newcomer to emergency preparedness from the Chicago area.

Springer, a high school social studies teacher, says he's most worried about energy shortages and an economic breakdown that could paralyze the just-in-time supply chain that grocery stores rely on.

In the past few months, Springer has stockpiled enough freeze-dried food for three months and bought 72-hour emergency supply kits for himself, his wife and two young children. The 39-year-old is also teaching himself to can food.

"I'm not looking for a retreat in northern Idaho or any of that stuff, but I think there's more people like me out there and I think those numbers are growing," he said.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D98DCLJG0&show_article=1

misterfubar
05-26-2009, 10:30 AM
:crazyparanoidfoilhatwearingsmiley:

Jam Master Jay
05-26-2009, 10:46 AM
$20,000 will buy a crapload of stuff. What on earth is that dude stockpiling?

And what do they talk about on "survival podcasts"?

I'd venture to say that if society dissolved into chaos such that power plants and water treatment plants shut down you would have bigger problems than worrying about having to use a generator to power your house.

DRM
05-26-2009, 11:15 AM
"Cheap tents"? :confused:

So are all those city folk planning to hoof it out to the country and set up a cheap tent to get by :shaking:

Todd W
05-26-2009, 11:28 AM
Hoping those ppl who are stocking on tablets stock up on water too... or maybe they figure the water will stay on but be nasty :confused: :p

20k is a chunk, but it said he got a generator, mill, food, etc, 20k is not that much once you start factoring in BIG ticket items.

DRM
05-26-2009, 11:50 AM
I am starting to think the term "survival" is entirely too broad, and really needs to be broken down into 3 sub categories - because "surviving" a 3 day ice storm, is NOWHERE near the same as "surviving" the aftermath of a global nuclear war, and even "surviving" a few months in the breakdown of a government/economy is different from both of those.

surveyboy
05-26-2009, 11:52 AM
i'm still pissed at myself for missing that cheap generator at kragen a while back.

Todd W
05-26-2009, 12:21 PM
I am starting to think the term "survival" is entirely too broad, and really needs to be broken down into 3 sub categories - because "surviving" a 3 day ice storm, is NOWHERE near the same as "surviving" the aftermath of a global nuclear war, and even "surviving" a few months in the breakdown of a government/economy is different from both of those.

Survival is broad.
Financial survival is just another example of one of the many types of survival... at least the word survival may not be looked at so negatively or tin-foil hat wearing loony type anymore.

i'm still pissed at myself for missing that cheap generator at kragen a while back.

Save up for a good one, if you REALLY need it don't want it crapping out ;)

Vortec_Cruiser
05-26-2009, 12:41 PM
i'm still pissed at myself for missing that cheap generator at kragen a while back.

That reminds me - I need to go out and start mine up.

Chris
05-26-2009, 12:46 PM
Hoping those ppl who are stocking on tablets stock up on water too... or maybe they figure the water will stay on but be nasty :confused: :p
.

So how much water would you consider enough?

DRM
05-26-2009, 12:51 PM
That reminds me - I need to go out and start mine up.

lol - I made a mental note to do that tonight too...

CDA 455
05-26-2009, 12:52 PM
So how much water would you consider enough?




Three gallons per person per day is how I calculate it.

DRM
05-26-2009, 12:53 PM
at least the word survival may not be looked at so negatively or tin-foil hat wearing loony type anymore.

Nothing like an economic meltdown to make last year's tinfoil-wearing-nutcases look like messianic visionaries ;)

surveyboy
05-26-2009, 12:55 PM
That reminds me - I need to go out and start mine up.

lol - I made a mental note to do that tonight too...

:mad3: glad i could help you guys :flipoff2: :laughing:

Todd W
05-26-2009, 01:05 PM
So how much water would you consider enough?

Define enough.

Enough for a week?
Enough to last after the world ends?
Enough to drink only?
Enough to drink and clean-up?

TONS of variables.

On water I think you should have enough to drink on hand for a week min, that doesn't even mean it has to be water, it can be juice in cans, etc. A weeks worth of water is SO SIMPLE to do for drinking. Go to Winco buy 1gal jugs for 88cents, store in basement.. you can get a week supply for 2 ppl cheap and rotate super easily.

2 of us go through 7 gals of water a week for DRINKING, and cooking only. We don't drink much soda maybe a 18pack a month, but do drink Gatorade a bit... For us we could easily get by on 14g a week. A case of the 1g is 6, 2 cases is 12g. 3 cases 18g. So for 18 x .88 we have enough drinking water for a week, and can rotate it out.

That's a super simple way to do it... We used to use that water, and a 6g water dispenser, we always had 3 6g spare tanks too.

Now we are on a well with approx 60g available for draw + whatever is in the lines, and use the 1g things for trips so we keep those on hand too.

Hook my generator up and I can get as much water until I run out of fuel... walk 10 minutes and get water out of a creek, walk 1hr and get water out of the river.

Water is needed to live, so, ya, make sure you can get some ;)
We plan to add a 2500g tank too, the tank isn't much $ it's the time to set it up, and wiring up another pump, etc...
We also have a 2nd well up the mountain behind us that I think if I clear away a good amount of trees I could setup a wind pump on it and pull up water from it, I haven't had this well checked out it was here when we moved but may be a nifty option :)

Chris
05-26-2009, 01:14 PM
Three gallons per person per day is how I calculate it.

I wonder which of the two of us has more water. :p

Mustard Dog
05-26-2009, 01:49 PM
Anyone else notice how the article avoids mentioning people stocking up on arms:confused::shaking:

I bet most of the people interviewed also told of being first time gun buyers all of a sudden, but the report doesn't mention that.

The article is also huge on people doing this in case of 'financial collapse', totally avoided that most would say they are afraid the current administration is what's causing it.

Mustard Dog
05-26-2009, 01:50 PM
I wonder which of the two of us has more water. :p

I got 3000 gallons in a tank and a well that can be powered with my generator to get more:flipoff2:

misterfubar
05-26-2009, 01:51 PM
I wonder which of the two of us has more water. :p

Water? Like from the toilet?
http://usera.imagecave.com/markyannone2/GOTSOL1/Idiocracy1.jpg

Chris
05-26-2009, 04:06 PM
I got 3000 gallons in a tank and a well that can be powered with my generator to get more:flipoff2:

:laughing:

Never Monday
05-26-2009, 04:27 PM
Nothing like an economic meltdown to make last year's tinfoil-wearing-nutcases look like messianic visionaries ;)

your welcome :flipoff2:

CRFRIDER
05-26-2009, 04:38 PM
Haven't heard anyone mention fuel for your generators. How much are you holding? How old is it?

Urban Wheeler
05-26-2009, 07:15 PM
I have lake property. I have enough water. :flipoff2:

Todd W
05-26-2009, 07:34 PM
Haven't heard anyone mention fuel for your generators. How much are you holding? How old is it?

I need to find an economical and safe way to store ~100g or so of gas, and another 100-250 of diesel.... Between the chainsaw, other yard tools, the quad, and the buggy having gas on hand would REALLY come in handy. And diesel if/when I get a diesel generator and tractor :D

All the tanks/setups I've seen are $550+ each :(

Chris
05-26-2009, 08:38 PM
I need to find an economical and safe way to store ~100g or so of gas, and another 100-250 of diesel.... Between the chainsaw, other yard tools, the quad, and the buggy having gas on hand would REALLY come in handy. And diesel if/when I get a diesel generator and tractor :D

All the tanks/setups I've seen are $550+ each :(Weld up your own.

Todd W
05-26-2009, 09:36 PM
Weld up your own.

Ya know, I do have a spare 120g horizontal air tank... probably needs to be cleaned, and coated inside but would be nice. L O L.

PROJECTJUNKIE
05-26-2009, 11:34 PM
Haven't heard anyone mention fuel for your generators. How much are you holding? How old is it?

I keep a few jerry cans full of gas and diesel, I'll top off a tank and refill the can regularly and I make it a point to keep the tanks full on all of the 8+ driveable vehicles around here. Recently I've quit recycling oil and fluids. Between parting cars out, draining old gas and oil, and regular maintenance, I wind up with alot of mixed fuel I could run in my diesels if I had to.
I also have 3 propane tanks for my bbq grille, and a ton of tanks for the camp grille.
I'm in the market for a wood burning stove for the house, as I can get tons (literally) of pallets and scrap wood from work.
I've been watching this for a while, and I don't think we are going to get an economic collapse, as that would likely lead to a revolution. What they (yes, there is a "they") will likely do is create another great depression, wearing us down. They will likely use hyper-inflation as a major player in this. They will also beat us nearly to death with new taxes. I'm looking long term, not keeping much cash around, instead investing in green houses, tools, equipment, etc. I think the only way to survive a depression and hyperinflation is to be able to produce commodities and services with little or no overhead, trading, and selling private party whenever possible.
I look to mexicans for wisdom. When you find an "abandoned" car in the woods, or alley, it NEVER has tires, radiator, alternator, or a battery. These are consumables and can be used on many makes and models, I'm holding onto mine instead of dumping them for beer money, and am looking for a tire machine.

nissancrawler
05-26-2009, 11:36 PM
Hoping those ppl who are stocking on tablets stock up on water too... or maybe they figure the water will stay on but be nasty :confused: :p

Well+generator:flipoff2:

Anyone else notice how the article avoids mentioning people stocking up on arms:confused::shaking:

I bet most of the people interviewed also told of being first time gun buyers all of a sudden, but the report doesn't mention that.

The article is also huge on people doing this in case of 'financial collapse', totally avoided that most would say they are afraid the current administration is what's causing it.

Yep, dawned on me right away. The media couldn't say it was because of their #1 guy...

Haven't heard anyone mention fuel for your generators. How much are you holding? How old is it?

I keep 20 gallons on hand at all times. I have 5 5 gallon cans, I only let one run out at once. I put a piece of tape on the handle with the date. the gas gets used for the lawn mower, etc. If it gets too old and hasn't been rotated through, I just dump it in the pickup, and go get fresh. No biggie.

CDA 455
05-27-2009, 03:53 AM
I wonder which of the two of us has more water. :p



And how much water are you storing, big boy :D ?!!

Never Monday
05-27-2009, 04:41 AM
Haven't heard anyone mention fuel for your generators. How much are you holding? How old is it?

whatever is in the tanks at the gas station :confused: