We've tried to keep this objective (black and white). But we've revisited this topic and here are the rules for what's eligible for the remaining qualifiers for the '10 King of the Hammers.

Your car MUST have a 4wd transfer case with low range.

You may use a different car to qualify than race.

Here is where is gets gray.

You can't show up at V2R in a 4WD Class 7 car... qualify... and then show up to KOH in a rock buggy. You need to race similar styles of vehicles. This is 100% subjective. If you intend to do this, I suggest you speak directly with Jeff or I regarding your intentions.


Here are two scenarios that are 100% allowed....

Scott Hartman and the Dust Junkies are going to race their existing JeepSpeed car in the Ultra4 class. If they qualify, they will race the JeepSpeed in KOH. This is legit.

If they were just going to qualify in the JS and build a more 'rock' based rig for KOH it would not be allowed.


Scenario 2...

Dustin and Becca would like to qualify the TJ. If they get in, they plan on building a new car. This is legit.


Make sense?

We are striving to have everything objective and black and white. But in the interest of fairness, cost savings for teams, and interest in the class, we need to be flexible.

Please call Jeff or I directly if you have any questions.

Dave

Please call Jeff or I directly if you have any questions.



Here is the key point. Makes sense to me. Thanks!

Dave, do you know who makes a liftkit for a WRX, for after Hillclimb? And prerunner fenders to help fit some 37" stickies for KOH? :homer:






In all seriousness thank you guys for being very forthcoming/available/on top of the issues surrounding everything for KOH and qualifying.

Dave, do you know who makes a liftkit for a WRX, for after Hillclimb? And prerunner fenders to help fit some 37" stickies for KOH? :homer:






In all seriousness thank you guys for being very forthcoming/available/on top of the issues surrounding everything for KOH and qualifying.



Appreciate it... but we're running LATE

We already had registration open this time last year.

Lots of BIG news coming out soon

Dave

Dave, do you know who makes a liftkit for a WRX, for after Hillclimb? And prerunner fenders to help fit some 37" stickies for KOH? :homer:






In all seriousness thank you guys for being very forthcoming/available/on top of the issues surrounding everything for KOH and qualifying.

Bring a WRX if you want to get outrun! :flipoff2:

Bring a WRX if you want to get outrun! :flipoff2:
I gotta assume you mean outrun by Levi right? Didn't Mike, Dave, and Kelly help you install a rack for your walker to strap on the side of your Campbell car?

I gotta assume you mean outrun by Levi right? Didn't Mike, Dave, and Kelly help you install a rack for your walker to strap on the side of your Campbell car?

I heard they had to raise his roof as well as with the Depends, he was an inch taller sitting in his seat.

Just to clarify one other. With qualifying, you are qualifying the DRIVER, not the CAR right?

For example, I cant have someone else drive the qualifier (even if they are the co-driver in KOH) to qualify the car, and me to drive in KOH.

Just to clarify one other. With qualifying, you are qualifying the DRIVER, not the CAR right?

For example, I cant have someone else drive the qualifier (even if they are the co-driver in KOH) to qualify the car, and me to drive in KOH.


correct

how much of the qualifier does the driver have to drive?

how much of the qualifier does the driver have to drive?


Really?

You guys are killing me.

We are qualifying the driver of record. I have no way, nor will I find a way to validate how much they drove.

Just know that if someone can't find the skillz to qualify on their own merit and has to have someone else do the heavy lifting... we will ridicule them around the campfire:flipoff2:

how much of the qualifier does the driver have to drive?

For most sactioning bodies the Driver of record needs to start or Finish the race. One or the other. In Vegas to Reno Jeff and Dave have already said that the DOR must start day 3 of the race.

Lands end is so short that the DOR will have to start and finish. Think 5 to 10 min times.

I think that My brother and I were the only team or one of the only teams at this years KOH to switch drivers. My buggy, his spot in the race. He drove the LCQ and drove to RM 42 in the race. I drove the last half of the race.

Switching drivers in the shorter races makes little to no sense.

Cool, I'm bringing my wife's off road modified 33" tire FJ Cruiser to V2R. Then I can use my off road modified FJ 40 'based' rig for KOH:D:D:flipoff2:

Really?

You guys are killing me.

We are qualifying the driver of record. I have no way, nor will I find a way to validate how much they drove.

Just know that if someone can't find the skillz to qualify on their own merit and has to have someone else do the heavy lifting... we will ridicule them around the campfire:flipoff2:

I've seen more than one team racing with competent drivers and co-drivers. I thought koh was driver cross start/finish lines, do whatch ya want in the middle. Folks do get injured and sick on long races. Ridicule away :flipoff2:

Cool, I'm bringing my wife's off road modified 33" tire FJ Cruiser to V2R. Then I can use my off road modified FJ 40 'based' rig for KOH:D:D:flipoff2:



:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:

4400 ? Kevin Sacalas
4400 Matthew Legg
4403 Jason Carner
4405 Travis Carpenter TCARP1
4406 Robert Usnick yeild2me
4411 Dean Bulloch
4432 Roger Lovell CHOPS
4454 David Cole JRT
4455 Richard Mooneyham Easy Rick
4471 Jeff Knoll Jeff Knoll


According to BITD as of last week 10 teams had sent in the letter of intent. Anyone else actually going to commit?

Great odds with that list seeing that Usnick, Knoll, Easy and JRT are not int he running for KOH spots.

Great odds with that list seeing that Usnick, Knoll, Easy and JRT are not int he running for KOH spots.
Yeah it is, if I had access to a nice 4 seat car I would love go do it. :flipoff2:

Yeah it is, if I had access to a nice 4 seat car I would love go do it. :flipoff2:

I laugh.

I laugh.

Thought you would get a charge out of that.:D

hen I can use my off road modified FJ 40 'based' rig for KOH:D:D:flipoff2:

Is that thing still sitting in your back yard? :flipoff2:

Sorry for my ignorance here, but for KOH, are there ever going to be any classes? For example, something that seperates unlimited buggies from full bodied vehicles? We are building another JK 2 door and thought about trying to run it, but obviously it would not be really competitive paired up against something like Cambell has or most buggies for that matter! We would like to know if that is ever in the cards for KOH? Thank you for your time.

Jeremy

Sorry for my ignorance here, but for KOH, are there ever going to be any classes? For example, something that seperates unlimited buggies from full bodied vehicles? We are building another JK 2 door and thought about trying to run it, but obviously it would not be really competitive paired up against something like Cambell has or most buggies for that matter! We would like to know if that is ever in the cards for KOH? Thank you for your time.

Jeremy

Most likely not, this is an unlimited race, that being said, I don't think I'm out of line saying that the vast majority of racers are not racing to win. They are racing to finish.

Understood. Thank you for the quick response. I guess you could look at it that way, but not being competitive and a road block to others does not seem like it would be alot of fun either or even fair to other competitors. Even at Baja most run just to finish, but they still have classes and put people off the line with their groups. But, if it is only unlimited then, that is the way it is. Of course, we still have to build the rig and get it qualified, so there is still alot of work to be done. Utlimately we don't want to cause any problems for those that are truely going to be competitive for a good placing or good finish...

Thanks again for the quick response.

Jeremy

Understood. Thank you for the quick response. I guess you could look at it that way, but not being competitive and a road block to others does not seem like it would be alot of fun either or even fair to other competitors. Even at Baja most run just to finish, but they still have classes and put people off the line with their groups. But, if it is only unlimited then, that is the way it is. Of course, we still have to build the rig and get it qualified, so there is still alot of work to be done. Utlimately we don't want to cause any problems for those that are truely going to be competitive for a good placing or good finish...

Thanks again for the quick response.

Jeremy


One of the biggest parts of finishing this race is the challenge to find a way. whatever it may be. differnet line around a rig whatever. That is the part I enjoy the most I wish I were better at it but I think I get a bit better every race.

Wayne

For those who KOH 2010 will be your first time,trust me I only pour gas:D for my son and FINISHING SHOULD be your first intent.:flipoff2:

Sorry for my ignorance here, but for KOH, are there ever going to be any classes? For example, something that seperates unlimited buggies from full bodied vehicles? We are building another JK 2 door and thought about trying to run it, but obviously it would not be really competitive paired up against something like Cambell has or most buggies for that matter! We would like to know if that is ever in the cards for KOH? Thank you for your time.

Jeremy

If you ask me, I like the fact that KOH is an unlimited race. As long as you approach it with the right mindset of finishing the race as your ultimate goal, then finishing well is just icing on the cake and you will have a great time.

Let there be no doubt, this race is not easy and not for everyone. It's likely the most challenging race many of us have ever undertaken. That's why "it's that daymn big". Build your rig light, strong and fast, and with the right amount of preparation (and a little bit of luck doesn't hurt), you can be right there with the big dawgs. :smokin:

This thread got off track but why not run with it.

The course levels the field no doubt. Campbell as bad ass as his IFS rig is, made less than 7 miles before he got towed back due to tranny failure.
Look at the F-toys that are slow and steady. I wouldnt discourage anyone from the dream.
KOH is all that and its that dayummm big!!!

I DNF'd last year hauling ass due to early electric problems we got resolved but blew way too much time doind so. I want this race, I need this race, I dont like starting something and not following through. I want that finish line, and yes that is a very very very lofty goal, but goals are made to be attained.

Dream on, and see you on the lakebed!

Believe me (and I am sure others will agree), not finishing is the worse thing that can happen....because its all you think about. What if this, and what if that. I should of upgraded that, or looked at that more.

If we would of finished in February (even after my buddy Fuggy who I believe was the last across), I would be sitting back laughing at all these KOH threads and head out tomorrow and go TRAIL RIDING with my friends. But NOOOOOO, I had to DNF, so we came back, upgraded, went to Rausch Creek, got lucky, and now I am prepping for V2R (which is for fun becasue I REALLY want to do it). I was already entered into V2R as a fall back incase RCQ didnt go as planned. But now, we can chill, and go out and have a damn good time.

Do not be discouraged because you dont have a big $$$ car. For the most part, there really were only a few big money ones, and one only made it 7 miles!! A tried and true trail rig will get you further than you think.


Rob

Do not be discouraged because you dont have a big $$$ car. For the most part, there really were only a few big money ones, and one only made it 7 miles!! A tried and true trail rig will get you further than you think.


Rob


Werd:)

Thanks guys. We know a JK is certainly not the optimum rig to build for this event, but that is our market place. We don't do anything with buggies, nor will we! They are cool and all, but just not for us. We are Jeep through and through. There might be some truggy and solid axle swap kits coming in our future!

"One of the biggest parts of finishing this race is the challenge to find a way. whatever it may be. differnet line around a rig whatever. That is the part I enjoy the most I wish I were better at it but I think I get a bit better every race.

Wayne "

Wayne, we just hope your fast line is not across the hood of our JK! LOL..

Rock Krawler Suspension

Thanks guys. We know a JK is certainly not the optimum rig to build for this event, but that is our market place. We don't do anything with buggies, nor will we! They are cool and all, but just not for us. We are Jeep through and through. There might be some truggy and solid axle swap kits coming in our future!

"One of the biggest parts of finishing this race is the challenge to find a way. whatever it may be. differnet line around a rig whatever. That is the part I enjoy the most I wish I were better at it but I think I get a bit better every race.

Wayne "

Wayne, we just hope your fast line is not across the hood of our JK! LOL..

Rock Krawler Suspension

Hoods are boring I am much more creative then that! :D

Lets see your JK on the starting line.

Wayne

According to BITD as of last week 10 teams had sent in the letter of intent. Anyone else actually going to commit?

We are trying to find a way to do this. Many people, including Dave, has stepped up to offer whatever help they can to see us with the TJ there and we really appreciate it...but we're not going to start something we cannot afford to finish. If we pull together a workable budget, we'll be there.

Most likely not, this is an unlimited race, that being said, I don't think I'm out of line saying that the vast majority of racers are not racing to win. They are racing to finish.

Dave, you know the vast majority of the racers better than I do, but it's hard to believe some one would even want to start this race with the idea of only finishing. I think every driver has a thought of winning, Easy Rick told me he was going to win this (09) year. He came close. Are you hoping your car only finishes next year? Please excuse the thread corruption, just wanted to know.

Dave, you know the vast majority of the racers better than I do, but it's hard to believe some one would even want to start this race with the idea of only finishing. I think every driver has a thought of winning, Easy Rick told me he was going to win this (09) year. He came close. Are you hoping your car only finishes next year? Please excuse the thread corruption, just wanted to know.

He knows that everyone else fears his new beast, and knows its a tall order to ask to win against his new car.:D:eek::laughing::laughing: :flipoff2:



Kidding aside, I know there are a number of teams that just hope for a finish. Most don't get that far. Its a really tough race.:mr-t:

He knows that everyone else fears his new beast, and knows its a tall order to ask to win against his new car.:D:eek::laughing::laughing: :flipoff2:



Kidding aside, I know there are a number of teams that just hope for a finish. Most don't get that far. Its a really tough race.:mr-t:

Thanx Jeff, I was there for this last race, I witnessed how tough it was. All the more reason to question why someone would subject themselves and their equipment to such a brutal endevor without thinking they can win. Must be like Nascar rear runners, doin it for the rush and a little cash. Still I can't help but think in the back of the drivers mind he thinks he has a chance to win. Being from drag racing, we never thought we'd be happy to just qualify. Kudos to you both for this phenomenon (KOH), see what you started!!! Btw, Will you be hoping your driver only finishes?

Most likely not, this is an unlimited race, that being said, I don't think I'm out of line saying that the vast majority of racers are not racing to win. They are racing to finish.

IIRC when Baja started out, not many classes, look at it now. "likely not", the way this has grown you almost have to increase the field to acomodate all who wish to participate, you turned away over 200 this year, remember? Full bodied cars could race for the "Jack of the Hammers" title, unless a female won. Just kidding, I'm aware of some of the obstacles to expand the field, it's too bad it can't happen in the near future. I know we're all awaiting word on the next developments of future race sites. Any races not held in JV can't be KOH, because that's sacred, what will they be called?

what will they be called?

Ultra 4 is how we're branding the 'style' of racing.

Whether it's KOH, V2R, Lands End, Rausch Creek or whereever.

KOH is just one race.

Full bodied cars could race for the "Jack of the Hammers" title,

There already is a Jack of the Hammers. I may be wrong but I believe he's finished ALL THREE KOH events. :dustin:

There already is a Jack of the Hammers. I may be wrong but I believe he's finished ALL THREE KOH events. :dustin:

If you're talking about CTM you'd be incorrect.

I'd have to think about this, but I believe only two cars have finished all three races. Both named John.

John James
John Reynolds

Dave, you know the vast majority of the racers better than I do, but it's hard to believe some one would even want to start this race with the idea of only finishing. I think every driver has a thought of winning,


Kidding aside, I know there are a number of teams that just hope for a finish. Most don't get that far. Its a really tough race.:mr-t:

Thanx Jeff, I was there for this last race, I witnessed how tough it was. All the more reason to question why someone would subject themselves and their equipment to such a brutal endevor without thinking they can win.

Well for us I thought we set a lofty goal, race the LCQ get in the show and see the finish line. Didn't care where we finished just wanted a finish. We knew it was a tough tough race and just finishing would be a major accomplishment. For the goals we set for our KOH '09 experience, starting 89th and finishing 15th is a win in my book.

Ultra 4, thats different. Gentlemen, thank you for your replys. Dave, I appreciate theres a lot on your plate, but any progress on additional race venues?

Slowrockr, that was quite an accomplishment, my hats off to you. Alas, passing that many cars should have been easy if the majority of those drivers weren't in it to win. Ponder how you might have done with the mindset of winning. Kidding again, you did a great job, what kept you from a podium finish? Starting position, mechanical issues, or just fatigue? Your'e obviously a talented driver, so you had to have a glimmer of hope of winning, didn't you?

Just out of curiousity, is there anyone willing to admit they thought, or knew they could win? Obviously Shannon, JR, and Easy thought they would. Dustin, how about Becca? Dave, would you put a driver in your new car that didn't have the goal to win? I can't wrap my head around this, are you going out there to race, or save parts? If your not out there to win, your just taking up space. Jeff and Dave, heres how to ease your mind about who to invite(too late now, should have thought of this last year). Send a questionaire to all would be competitors. Only one question; Do you know you can win this race? Any answer other than yes, eliminate them. Simple and effective. Wait, wait, wait this can still work for next year, when they send in the entry form, send back a questionaire. Sometimes I'm so brilliant I scare myself. Ha Ha, I'm being facetious, but in all actuality how many questionaires do you think would come back with anything other than yes?

Just out of curiousity, is there anyone willing to admit they thought, or knew they could win? Obviously Shannon, JR, and Easy thought they would. Dustin, how about Becca?

That course is so tough, leaving the line its anyone can win.
I think as we see this Ultra 4 progress we'll see the tried and trues (Shannon, Lovells, et al...), but the Cinderella stories are what are so great about what Dave and Jeff have put together. There are tons of those. Great recent example from the RCQ, Rob Usnick.

Sure I thought I could win, but my goal was to finish. Didn't happen, and as proven, qualifing is a lofty goal, finishing even more lofty, winning.......

Slowrockr, that was quite an accomplishment, my hats off to you. Alas, passing that many cars should have been easy if the majority of those drivers weren't in it to win. Ponder how you might have done with the mindset of winning. Kidding again, you did a great job, what kept you from a podium finish? Starting position, mechanical issues, or just fatigue? Your'e obviously a talented driver, so you had to have a glimmer of hope of winning, didn't you?

I think starting position and a few issues kept us from a top 10. Lost a clip on the atlas, had to waste few minutes every time we went from high to low range, not knowing what kind of mileage we were gonna get coulda saved us a fuel stop, no cath and jumping out to pee, etc... Biggest issue we ran into was traffic, was several times we had no where to go but sit and wait for a line to open up, make a line, or had to pull someone out that was stuck. I can tell you this though, since we are in for '10 and have a general idea of what to expect, this time our mindset is focused more towards a single digit finish. We just try to set an attainable goal for our team, sure we want to win but we try to set a goal that we think will push us, run our race best we can and let the chips lay where they may. It's a great race, and yes it's just that dayum big mayn!

Talk about a threadjack. :laughing:

Even better recent example at the RCQ is Clayton. Noone knew him here on Pirate (we know him on this side of the country), but he put together a nice race, and he was in it to win it. He has a great vehicle, not over powered but it has enough to not break stuff but still move.

And two weeks before the RCQ, Clayton won the unlimited class in the RCRocs (pure rock crawling) comp. Coincidentially, second place in that class was a virtually identical buggy that Clayton built as well. (also placing well in that comp was Lucas Murphy who also finished RCQ to get a trip to the big show).

I think the moral of the story is that as others have said, once you leave the line, anyone can win it. It requires a lot of stuff to fall into place, and a little luck (Clayton was ahead of the road block on Jotters Way the first lap). Placing high and winning is not a foregone conclusion in any of these races because they are so hard.

We also did the LCQ to get into the race.

Honestly, knowing the competition with Shanon, Randy, Easy etc. we didn't have ideas of winning. We went into it planning to race our race, drive to our abilities given the vehicle and see where we ended up.

At the end of Sledge we were right with the 5th and 6th place finishers. We had a water pump issue at that time that pushed us back to 13/14. I feel damn proud to be able to say that. Our car is my recreational crawler, the only problem we had was with a part that shouldn't have been a problem.
I had never driven in a race, my Dad and brother have been to a few baja races and other smaller races as either a co driver or pit support. Our dad was the pit crew leader and the rest of our crew were friends that came to help on their own dime, a few hadn't even seen the car in years.

We knew that in order to make the most of our 16 hour 1 way drive we needed to cross the finish line and then let the final standings be what they may. We did that, we qualified for next years race and feel quite successful in that.

Sure winning would be nice (I had grand delusions about that) but we sort of felt like we were bringing a knife to gun fight.

It's a race so anything can happen but the competition was good as always.

Again gentlemen I apologize for jacking the thread, but there aren't a lot of questions about using a different car to qualify. Soooo in that spirit i'll keep on screwing it up. Wag, rockr, and Mark, thank you for expressing yourselves. I know it was a brutal event, my son says so in the KOH '09 movie trailer. I've ridden with him on some tough trails around here, so I trust his judgement. This was my first Hammers, I was shocked and awed at the LCQ at Backdoor. My first thought at the first rollover was, man, that s.o.b wants to win. I don't think I'm wrong, I really believe all want to win.

Miniwally, Grand delusions, why? You obviously have the talent and equipment to compete, or you would be really foolish to drive so far. I don't believe your a fool, don't ever think you can't win. I am absolutely in awe of all the competitors that want to compete in KOH, V2R, etc. Lands end, I just don't get as a qualifying event, but thats a question for another day.

Miniwally and to all who do admire Randy, I'll add my 2cents. I had the privelage to work with him about ten years ago, I thought he was a great kid. He was polite, intelligent, inquisitive, and very talented. I learned some things from him, maybe he learned from me. He was one of those you knew was going to make a name for himself, he was that different. I'm glad to see I didn't misjudge him. I now also admire him for his character.

Since my fingers wont stop typing, I'll continue to thwart the rules. Rob Usnick, you also have my admiration for the qualifying finish at RCQ. That you didn't quit after the dnf at KOH says a lot. Determination like that is usually rewarded, as you've proven. I'd like to shake your hand in Vegas, and again in Reno, because I know you'll be there at the end. I'll have a small part in Easys pit crew, so I'm looking forward to meeting all the competitors I can.

If you're talking about CTM you'd be incorrect.

I'd have to think about this, but I believe only two cars have finished all three races. Both named John.

John James
John Reynolds

What about MD and Hobie?

That course is so tough, leaving the line its anyone can win.
I think as we see this Ultra 4 progress we'll see the tried and trues (Shannon, Lovells, et al...), but the Cinderella stories are what are so great about what Dave and Jeff have put together. There are tons of those. Great recent example from the RCQ, Rob Usnick.

Sure I thought I could win, but my goal was to finish. Didn't happen, and as proven, qualifing is a lofty goal, finishing even more lofty, winning.......

Ahhh, the Cinderella stories, theres enough there to make a mini-series. Anyone listening, anyone, anyone, Bueller? I'd love to hear those, I read all the post race recaps. I've sometimes followed along build threads to get an idea of the builder as a person, odd I know, that's how I am. The human interest side, thats where it's at for me. The mechanicals haven't changed much, so someone designs a new 4 link bracket, BFD. I hope you aren't giving up your "lofty goals".

I didn't drive the KOH race, although I preran and swept the course for about 30 miles. It's rough.

My first competitive race was a few weeks ago, just a little couple-mile course at Uwharrie in NC. I pre-ran the course many times to learn it and find out how fast I could go in my truck - and found out in more than a few places where the limits were. When it was my turn to race my mentality was entirely on driving the race at the limits of my rig. If that's good enough to win, that's excellent...but pushing beyond your physical limitations (of both you and your rig) is a fast way to get into trouble. A few guys in the class DNF'd that race due to hitting jumps or corners too fast and wrecking their rigs.

I think that mentality is more what these guys are getting at - not that you don't want to win, but that the priority is keeping the car and driver in one piece to get you to the finish line. Build your car stronger and faster, know how to drive it, and let the other guys over-drive theirs.

Now I know where Easy gets it. Good on ya Pops

To finish first you must first finish. eveyone wants to win. some go about it diferently. lots of guys over drove the first 20 miles, others saved the car for when it was needed. lot sof game plans only one was teh best on that day.

Wayne

After competing for a while and running a couple of these KOH races I want to win everyone one of them and think we have the equipment and sponsors to do so. Thats the Jody Everding "RACER GUY" in me.

Seriously, to go out and just finish has to be a mind set almost everytime for us because its real easy to get lost in the moment of racing and do something over your head that will take you out of the race. It happens a lot.

My first time in the desert ever was an eye opener without a doubt when we were prerunning year before last. Just about everything did and could go wrong. Didnt even see about half of the course and said I might as well just go out and have fun and try and finish in my clapped out moonbuggy. We finished fourth.

I heard from a very wise man in a very cool video one time say "lady luck has to be on your side" and " to finish first your must first finish". Wise fucker, beyond his young years. :D

I know it was a brutal event, my son says so in the trailer. I've ridden with him on some tough trails around here, so I trust his judgement.


The nut does not fall far from the tree. Easy gets it honest it seems ;)

EDIT: Izzy beat me to it....

Since my fingers wont stop typing, I'll continue to thwart the rules. Rob Usnick, you also have my admiration for the qualifying finish at RCQ. That you didn't quit after the dnf at KOH says a lot. Determination like that is usually rewarded, as you've proven. I'd like to shake your hand in Vegas, and again in Reno, because I know you'll be there at the end. I'll have a small part in Easys pit crew, so I'm looking forward to meeting all the competitors I can.

Thanks Easyspops, I really appreciate the words. We will be there in Vegas and will be there in Reno (at least with our junk on the trailer!:D) too, so be sure to stop by!! Just look for the little Samuari buggy with 4 or 5 people standing around it with "What the hell are we doing" looks on their faces!!!!:smokin:

I have said it before, but finishing RCQ was a HUGE accomplishment for our team, and getting the invite just made it better. The score we have to settle at KOH does not involve any of the racers, it is between us and the Hammers. Fortunatley, we have a second chance to settle it.

Rob

Vetteboy79, I know where your'e coming from, in the early 70s I ran some desert scrambles with the Desert Buicks Racing assn. I rode a 400 CZ that I modified well beyond my skill set (yea, I'm that old). It never occoured to me that I didn't have to win. My guardian angel put in a lot of OT, pulling my dumb ass out of the fire, cause I shouldn't be around today. Wayne, Thank you, The last bit of wisdom I imparted on Rick before he left the line was; don't drive over your head! Nolen, Thanks, I guess, was a compliment right? Rob, I'll find you, I've got the funny feeling you wont have that look on your face. I do as I'm sure most others know that you belong.

Btw guys, my name is Gene, online I'm easyspops so I can bask in the glory of my son. I'm extremely proud of Rick and Scott for what they have accomplished at KOH '08 and '09.

Doug, Thank you for admitting you set out to win, out of 92 competitors, only about a half dozen evidentally had the same goal!!! Nolen, I did mean the KOH movie trailer. Sometimes my fingers move faster than the ole brain.

Just out of curiousity, is there anyone willing to admit they thought, or knew they could win? ... Dustin, how about Becca?

We knew from the beginning that there was no way for a win, even if we WANTED it. Flat out, there were far too many teams with the Jeff Mello attitude of win or self-destruct, willing to hang it on the line full-throttle the entire way. With that much talent and that many people in a single class, the odds of a win were basically zero with the focus we had.

However, we were confident that if we didn't have any bugs, we could pull off a top 10 finish. I recognize that others face the same "shoulda-woulda-coulda", but as far as rigs capable on the trail AND fast in the desert, we turned out to be VERY pleased with the TJ. And by fast, I'm not talking, "push the throttle and go fast, even if you're not very stabile"...I mean, go hella fast and the rig still handles INCREDIBLY well. Though we were not the fastest in the desert, nor the most capable in the trails, I feel we had a solid balance of both worlds.

I would love to have another crack at the race in the TJ, now that the bugs are somewhat out of it...Bec and I agreed next time I would drive as her vision keeps her limited on speed where I'll pin it. I may or may not keep up with guys like Mello, but like him, I'm of the mentality to max it out going for the highest spot possible OR break. Bec plays it conservative.

In Vegas to Reno, if we end up getting the budget, I'm confident in a strong finish and can even see hitting the podium as that's just how well the TJ is in the deserts. Obviously, we're not as balls out fast as some, but I think our drivetrain will offer us something most rockrigs do not have...reliability. Who knows what rigs will actually show up but if we were competing against last year's KOH field, I would even smack talk a bit that we have an OK shot at a win...not high odds, but definitely possible...however, I have a feeling V2R won't be "last year's KOH field"...especially with Dave's rig looking so amazing.

And speaking of Dave's rig...I'd like a crack at driving it in KOH 2010. :dustin:

Thanx Dustin, I was really sad to see Becca have so many issues in JV. I like your optimism, sure hope you can make V2R. I assume you'll be in Reno in a couple of weeks, like to chat with you again, when your not so busy. I'll be there to spectate. Best of luck to you both.

Well, my son has informed me that I was rambling, that's true. To the moderator I say thank you for your patience, and tolerance for letting me jack the thread. To anyone I congratulated, admired or encouraged, I meant every word. To anyone I upset, butt hurt, or shamed, I meant every word. To anyone starting a race without the goal to win, I meant every word. Thank you all for your explanations, reasons, and justifactions. I hope to meet all of you someday, and I do wish all good luck, good preparation, and good execution of all your racing efforts. Race to WIN, be a headliner, not a footnote.

I would love to have another crack at the race in the TJ, now that the bugs are somewhat out of it...

[assholemodeon]I have a hard time feeling sorry for you. Last minute builds like you have done 2 years in a row are going to be full of bugs. Maybe if you can get in 2011, you won't wait until 2 weeks out to start your build. I know that gets you another angle of media exposure, but a win or even finish would be better in my opinion in the end.

I know you have reasons for the last minute stuff, I have seen them, but I just don't get why you would do it twice. Last minute and break once, oh well, last minute and break twice? You gotta be kidding?

[/assholemodeoff]

Well, my son has informed me that I was rambling

You are being told to be quiet by RICK? :laughing::laughing:

Preach on Pops, I am loving it!!

Nolen, I guess I misread your nut from the tree insinuation. I was using Ricks "brutal" description tongue in cheek. He didn't tell me to stop, just said I was rambling, I do that. Someone thinks I was baiting Dave, au contrair, I just want to understand not racing to win. Not racing to win, is not racing. The Tinbenders Jamboree was last month, that wasn't a race, took place at JV. Here's an idea, combine Tin benders Jambo and Koh competitors not looking to win. Call it the King of the Tinbenders Jamboree, everybody's happy, nobody hurts any parts, all is right with the world. Even Diane Finestein could compete. No wait, there can't be any competition, that wouldn't be PC. Anyone else like this idea?

You are being told to be quiet by RICK? :laughing::laughing:

Preach on Pops, I am loving it!!

Holy merciful father, I'm preaching to the choir. Nolen, I'm US Army, 1973-76, Rick was a Marine. Enough of our national service sacrifice. I don't mean to preach, just looking for answers, and to provoke some discussion. I'm by no means satisfied with the results.

Well, my son has informed me that I was rambling, that's true.

If Rick thinks you're talking to much much...that's saying something:flipoff2:

Just kidding pops, look forward to meeting you at V2R. We'll be waiting for you in Reno :D

I just want to understand not racing to win. Not racing to win, is not racing.


Everyone has a different defintion for winning.

What I can't understand is why you give a shit? You have your reasons to race and others have theirs. The only bummer (for you) is when people that share your motivations get their asses whooped by the group that is racing to finish.

And pops, your son hasn't successfully baited me in all his attempts, you're going to have to work alot harder ;)

Dave, thank you for the reply, please don't think I was trying to rile you. My only motivation was to understand why someone would want to race if they aren't trying to win. I can't recall ever competing in any type of race that all that entered did not aim to win. Nor can I ever recall anyone saying, God I hope I'm the first loser. That's what I give a shit about, trying to understand why someone thinks so differently than I do, how can they be that screwed up. Honestly, if there is a $10,000 prize for the winner, $0 prize for 2nd, whats the motivation to want to finish 2nd?

Dave, there is only one defination for winning in racing. Other esoteric concepts may include winning as conquering your fears, or kicking cigarettes. There again, that's not racing. Agreed?

Dave, I am really looking forward to meeting you in Reno, and Jeff also. The last time I saw you, you were hoofing it up Backdoor saying something about stopping someone.

Dave, BTW you skirted my earlier query about your '10 KOH driver, so I'll ask again, will you put a driver in your new car that doesn't aim to win?

Dad, please stop. Dave has already given you more of an explanation than I have recieved in 2 years. Please try and understand that WE(you and I) don't "get it".

My understanding is that people are different now. My biggest problem, was understanding this as well. That I was not going to change anything with reasoning or accomplishment? Apparently they don't want winners or go getters so much as a face in the camera, and" blah blah blah!" "THEY" seem to think that just because they were in the race makes their products worthy,:shaking: bullshit marketing, thats what I call it. Its mostly a West coast thing. The southern fellas always support their boys, but we already knew that, huh Dad.

Thats my DAD!:smokin:

Thanx POPS,:)
Easy "not far from the tree" Rick!

If Rick thinks you're talking to much much...that's saying something:flipoff2:

Just kidding pops, look forward to meeting you at V2R. We'll be waiting for you in Reno :D

I said he was rambling, just like I do.:p And "we" will be waiting for you in Reno!:flipoff2:

Everyone has a different defintion for winning.

What I can't understand is why you give a shit? You have your reasons to race and others have theirs. The only bummer (for you) is when people that share your motivations get their asses whooped by the group that is racing to finish.

And pops, your son hasn't successfully baited me in all his attempts, you're going to have to work alot harder ;)

You don't understand why he gives a shit?? Seriously? The only bummer for you is that you don't get it. But Jeff will take up your "Respectful" slack.


Dave, BTW you skirted my earlier query about your '10 KOH driver, so I'll ask again, will you put a driver in your new car that doesn't aim to win?

Yes Dad, he will, but he will put someone in there that will bring the show, and not the win. IMO

I promise to spank that drivers ass for ya Pops!:smokin:

Richard.

I said he was rambling, just like I do.:p And "we" will be waiting for you in Reno!:flipoff2:



It's going to be fun.

You don't understand why he gives a shit?? Seriously? The only bummer for you is that you don't get it. But Jeff will take up your "Respectful" slack.

Three parts to this. 1) The only thing about this whole discussion is; I don't get what gives anyone the right to question other peoples motivations. Several drivers have stated here that they focused on finishing. And for that they've been questioned about how that's even valid. 2) Just because I empathise with one faction (just finishing) doesn't mean that's my mindset when I compete. Please, go find someone that wishes I was just 'a little' more competitive. 3) I'm not being disrespectful in any way. I don't agree with you or your father. Big deal. Doesn't mean I don't respect you. Disrespect is invalidating an individuals goals, aspirations, acheivments, methods..whatever because they aren't congruent to yours. Before you start throwing acusations of disrespect, read your own post.

Yes Dad, he will, but he will put someone in there that will bring the show, and not the win. IMO




The driver I am currently in negotiations with has won more races then you've ever entered. But please, keep digging.

But in reality Rick, you're right. I am building that rig as a marketing tool. Pushing the limits of what our class and cars can do. Winning KOH for that car is secondary. I OWN the race Rick, my needs, plans, desires do need to be about the bigger picture. If I was a driver in this race and the owner was single mindedly focused on beating me, I would have concerns about that. I need to be focused on buildiing the best off road race in America. But I guess that's not 'go-getter' enough for you.

Any racer worth their salt is driven by a passion for winning. Why else would we take on the risks we do, spend the kind or money we do, work as hard as we do, and subject ourselves and those we care about to all of the stress, frustration, and mental anguish that comes along with racing? If not for the dream of the winning, nobody in their right mind would do this.

It doesn't have a damn thing to do with the cameras. Anybody that knows me, knows why I do this and anyone that doesn't know me has no pretentious right to assume what drives me. The camera is never there at 3:00AM when you've been up for days and despite the exhaustion, your still thrashing on the buggy to get it done so that you can load up and drive hundreds or thousands of miles just for the chance to race. The fact that you've spent every penny you have, and leveraged everything you have, and perhaps even your future and career, just to keep the dream alive today. You won't see that in the movie.

I've never been accused of being very photogenic or being a media hound, and my small "sound bite" may not even make the DVD, but when interviewed around the campfire before the race, I commented about the mutual respect and commeraderie that was obvious there among the competitors. There was no shit talking, no bragging, no self-promotion going on, and no win predictions. I said alot of us were friends and shared common roots based on years of trail riding with friends, how since many of us started competing, we missed that fun with friends, but that come race day (and I quote) "... we're all here to win".

In my experience, once you start racing, you're driven by an unfulfilled need to win. If you're lucky enough to ever experience a win, then you're driven by an ever growing need to win again.

In order to win, you have to put yourself in a position to win. That means finishing the race, first and foremost. In NASCAR, it's called being there for the last lap (usually meaning lead lap, top 5-10 position). It's going to be a rare occasion for the a KOH first timer to get a win. However possible, not very probable. It's therefore important (IMHO) to have a reasonable expectation and a gameplan for a win. That gameplan may not get you there the first time out, but shoot for a reasonable goal of finishing the race. That's one hell of an accomplishment and something you can then build on for the next race with a gameplan of finishing well and putting yourself in a position to win. Then it's all up to the driver and lady luck. Win predictions however, are for foolish drivers and those on the sidelines.

I guarantee you that anyone that's ever experienced the incredible feeling of leaving the starting line at KOH on raceday morning, laying into the throttle for that drag race down the first section lined with hundreds of spectators, leaves the starting line on a mission to win. I get goose bumps every day, just thinking about it.

Hell yes I drive to win.

It's going to be fun.



Three parts to this. 1) The only thing about this whole discussion is; I don't get what gives anyone the right to question other peoples motivations. Several drivers have stated here that they focused on finishing. And for that they've been questioned about how that's even valid.

Oh yeah, It will be fun, but a whole lot of blood sweat and tears as well!

I think the "Right to question motives" lies in the title of the competition, its a BITD "Race". The word Race by definition is a competition to see who is the best. If you are coming to this or anyother competition, not thinking you are the best(and admit it), then I think there are grounds for "questioning motivation". I know why you do the things you do, because you have explained it to me. If I hadn't questioned your motivation Dave, then I would still not "get it".

2) Just because I empathise with one faction (just finishing) doesn't mean that's my mindset when I compete. Please, go find someone that wishes I was just 'a little' more competitive.

No one is questioning your will to win, hell I have personaly seen you go after judges like an enraged Gorrilla, he is just trying to understand why anyone else would show up without the intention of winning?

3) I'm not being disrespectful in any way. I don't agree with you or your father. Big deal. Doesn't mean I don't respect you. Disrespect is invalidating an individuals goals, aspirations, acheivments, methods..whatever because they aren't congruent to yours. Before you start throwing acusations of disrespect, read your own post.


Read what you typed again, and then ask yourself "is this how Jeff would have said it?" We talk to eachother like that because were friends, based on a foundation of telling eachother to go fuck themselves!:laughing: And I'm all good with that!:smokin: But I think as a promoter, you word things wrong on occasion.;)




The driver I am currently in negotiations with has won more races then you've ever entered. But please, keep digging.

But in reality Rick, you're right. I am building that rig as a marketing tool. Pushing the limits of what our class and cars can do. Winning KOH for that car is secondary. I OWN the race Rick, my needs, plans, desires do need to be about the bigger picture. If I was a driver in this race and the owner was single mindedly focused on beating me, I would have concerns about that. I need to be focused on buildiing the best off road race in America. But I guess that's not 'go-getter' enough for you.

There are people that have lived more days than me as well, it just makes them older than me thats all.:flipoff2: Hows that for digging?

I know I am right! And I do love to hear you say it!:flipoff2: I know what YOU are doing and understand why and totally agree with it, but that is only because I questioned you and you explained yourself to me. I understand why others say they just want to finish.........my understanding is that they are just being humble and don't want anyone to know that they are going to win!:D Cause if thats not the case, then I don't understand why anyone would subject themselves to the abuse, financially, mentally, and physically.

Now lets race! Who wants to buy my Drivers seat for the first and last 500 feet of the race to buy a spot in KOH '10???:grinpimp:

Easy "one of the densest nuts off the tree" Rick.

[assholemodeon]I have a hard time feeling sorry for you. Last minute builds like you have done 2 years in a row are going to be full of bugs. Maybe if you can get in 2011, you won't wait until 2 weeks out to start your build. I know that gets you another angle of media exposure, but a win or even finish would be better in my opinion in the end.

I know you have reasons for the last minute stuff, I have seen them, but I just don't get why you would do it twice. Last minute and break once, oh well, last minute and break twice? You gotta be kidding?

[/assholemodeoff]
[assholedeflectoron]
And how did YOU finish in this race? Oh yeah, how about that guy that spent 1/4 million on his rig, prepped and practiced, and failed right out of the gate...and then I had a torn radiator hose take me out! Yep, having a ton of time with the Jeep would have stopped that from tearing! :laughing:

We had a great time, I did not cry about my problems nor did I ask for forgiveness from a dickhead like you...let alone anyone else. You have not taught me anything with your little speech, and the entire time I explained that we had started LONG before but others failed to deliver BIGTIME and put us back over three months...whatever Nolan, carry on with being an asshole. You play the part so well. :laughing:
[assholedeflectoroff]

Racing is racing.

Just ask Kim Sears...:D

I came up behind her at Rausch Creek and made SURE she knew I was on her tail. I caught her in the fast sections ( I was giving it all it had because I was in serious jeopardy of not making time) and was on her bumper up that big ass hill climb. She pitted, and I did not, that put me in front of her on Jotters. She ended up passing me again there, then disappered.

Later, we both find out she was a lap ahead, but it didnt matter.....We were racing!!!

She told me at the pub that night that she was like "oh, shit, we are going to lose a position!!"

Good times:smokin:
Rob

This is awesome!!! When I was at the RCQ I did not see all this name calling and stuff going on. Heck we even bought drinks for each other. I knew there was another side to this sport I was just introduced to. You guys/girls better hope I don't have my rig runnning by the time of the LCQ in 2010. Watch out!!! I ain't scaird!!!

Dave, there is only one defination for winning in racing.

Pops, don't drink too much of your koolaid...have you ever heard of a lead-in team, or a developmental team, or a team that shows to NASCAR, runs a single lap and pulls off the track? They are racing for a win in another respect, including something way off in the future. Others may be racing for a cause and just being there is more than enough for a victory. And then, yes, you are right, some come specifically to take home a victory or consider themselves losers. That considered, your son is a loser, but there were MANY out at that race that were winners.

Now don't get me wrong...EVERY time I see Rick, I congratulate him on his amazing performance, yet he's not exactly excited that he didn't win. You see, it's all in perception. Reading your words, yours seems to be a very narrow perception. Some race for the trophy, some race for something far greater, very few have ever captured BOTH. But, going back to racing for something greater, apply that lesson to life and you have a true winner.

Gentlemen, In my eternal quest for knowledge and understanding I may sometimes become beligerent in my questioning, I guess that can be blamed on my simple mind. I would never intentionally ridicule anyones motives, aspirations or desires, except in jest. I may sometimes not make that distinction clear. To anyone taking offense to my questions or comments, please accept my apology. I don't believe I disrespected anyone, I truly value everyones right to an opinion. Theres value in every opinion. I also don't feel disrespected, nothing was said that I took offense to. I'm kinda thick skinned anyway, and with my simple mind, well you get it. Please don't fault me for wanting to learn.

O
There are people that have lived more days than me as well, it just makes them older than me thats all.:flipoff2:

IRONIC!

Gentlemen, In my eternal quest for knowledge and understanding I may sometimes become beligerent in my questioning, .... Please don't fault me for wanting to learn.

:laughing: What's that saying Rick...with age comes wisdom? :laughing:

Dustin, I'm a little fuzzy on the "koolaid" reference. I have heard of developmental teams and cars, that's kinda out in left field isn't it. Kinda coming back around to an esoteric opinion. Try again, without a personal attack on my son. What brought that on anyway, did I disrespect you? I thought when I met you in Cedar City last year you were a nice guy, was I wrong. I have the upmost respect for what you and Becca have accomplished.

Phillyfan55, This has gotten pretty ugly, I'm of the opinion someone got butthurt. It's somewhat amazing how fast a downward spiral a discussion can take when name calling starts. Dagnabit Nolen, but I still value your opinion!!!

Pops,

We're all brothers here. No one has their nose out of joint. Looking forward to meeting you at V2R.

Regards

Dave

Ken Mercer, That was an eloquent description. By God your right, When you leave the line and mash the loud pedal, you better be thinking you are going to win. If that's not your mindset you should probably be rock gardening, not rock racing. There again this is only my opinion, trying to be PC here, no offense meant to anyone.

Dave, I didn't think you were, maybe someone further south of you. Hey as long as we can agree to disagree it's good by me. I truly do look forward to meeting you. It's hard to express how much admiration I have for what you and Jeff have accomplished seemingly so quickly. Both of you seem to be right on top of things, I am impressed. Best regards, Gene

[assholedeflectoron]
And how did YOU finish in this race? Oh yeah, how about that guy that spent 1/4 million on his rig, prepped and practiced, and failed right out of the gate...and then I had a torn radiator hose take me out! Yep, having a ton of time with the Jeep would have stopped that from tearing! :laughing:

We had a great time, I did not cry about my problems nor did I ask for forgiveness from a dickhead like you...let alone anyone else. You have not taught me anything with your little speech, and the entire time I explained that we had started LONG before but others failed to deliver BIGTIME and put us back over three months...whatever Nolan, carry on with being an asshole. You play the part so well. :laughing:
[assholedeflectoroff]


Glad to see that set you off :laughing:

I was invited by Dave to compete in 2008. I chose not to race because I knew I could not win. I am like Easypops. If I can't win, I am not going to race. I would never, ever show up in a competition and not be prepared to win. That is why I have chosen recreational wheeling and writing about the competitors over being "that racer guy"

You keep showing up not to win. I will keep taking pictures of your effort.

Dustin, thank you for making me see the light, I have to face the ugly truth, my son is a loser. Shit, I was so proud of him. Now I have to carry the burden of shame knowing he was the 2nd loser twice in a row at KOH. I can't believe Jason Scherer was even concerned that such a loser had passed him, or that he would have to wait at the finish line for 12 minutes for that loser son of mine before he could be declared the winner. I guess it's all just a matter of perception, no offense meant to anyone, almost!!!!

Nolen, I like you, I like you long time.

The driver I am currently in negotiations with has won more races then you've ever entered.
Damn it. Guess I better start building my own junk.




I race for the ladies and to make the highlight reels.




:D

[/QUOTE] We're all brothers here. No one has their nose out of joint.

Regards

Dave[/QUOTE]


I am glad as the newbie that I am considered part of the family. You know at one time I did have my nose out of joint..but I was up the next day and ready to go at it again.

Dustin...don't back down...I got your back!!!!

Nolan, I like you, I like you long time.

Rick and I butted heads on Pirate until we figured out that we were both right all the time :homer:

Nolan, I like you, I like you long time.

This thread is like the twilight zone.

I'm getting ettiquete tips from EZ Rick...

Everyone keeps punching each other in the nose and then saying 'no offense'...

A Mooneyham is siding with Nolan...

And two of the all time biggest shit talkers on PBB (myself and EZ) are getting upstaged by family members (his pops and my brother)...

what the hell has happened here:confused: :flipoff2:

Dave, that is the funniest shit I have seen in a long time :laughing:

Which one is your brother??


Dustin...don't back down...I got your back!!!![/QUOTE]

Dustin has never backed down in his life. Have you ever read the Hill Climbing thread? Holy shit :laughing:

Pops,

We're all brothers here. No one has their nose out of joint. Looking forward to meeting you at V2R.

Regards

Dave

Hey, you are going to be in Reno in a couple of weeks, right? Are you trying to dodge me till Vegas? I know my way around up the mountain, don't make me hunt you down. No offense meant to anyone.

Dustin, I'm a little fuzzy on the "koolaid" reference. I have heard of developmental teams and cars, that's kinda out in left field isn't it.

Pops, go back and read your comments about teams not coming out to win, in essence, are not competing. Considering there is no other race like KOH on the planet, to develop a team, strategy, vehicle, and experience, my example is VERY relavent. Of course people will race even if they know they cannot win. It is very relavent because those teams may have an entirely different goal in mind than winning that particular event.
The koolaid reference is a throwback to some duels I had with some guy you know pretty well...he used to throw that one at me from time to time...it was more for him than you. :dustin:


Try again, without a personal attack on my son. What brought that on anyway, did I disrespect you? I thought when I met you in Cedar City last year you were a nice guy, was I wrong. I have the upmost respect for what you and Becca have accomplished.

Pops, go back and read my comment again. With YOUR definition, as well as EZ's, he was a loser. To me, and I stated this in that very paragraph, he's a champ for succeeding as he has. He sees it differently so again, it's a focus on what victory is that makes a difference in how someone sees things.

Rick and I butted heads on Pirate until we figured out that we were both right all the time :homer:

Holy smokes, now there are three of us with that unique gift?

Hey, you are going to be in Reno in a couple of weeks, right? Are you trying to dodge me till Vegas? I know my way around up the mountain, don't make me hunt you down. No offense meant to anyone.


Bring it old man. If you can dodge a wrench... you can dodge a Mooneyham. I would assume everyone in your family is as slow as Rick.

No offense


Wow that really is liberating, I can flat out insult the crap out of people and just say "No offense" and I feel so much better.:flipoff2:


Beers on Jeff in Reno

Dave

It's great to read your and your Dads opinions on KOH Rick. I see that you come by your competitive spirit honestly. Thats great!
You and your Dad asked why someone would put themselfs through the beating that KOH can give out, both physically and financially with the intensions of just finishing and not winning.
I can most likely answer your question. I am at work so this post will most likely take me several hours to complete. I'll try to stay on point.

I have always loved racing. I also have always loved fixing up cars and trucks. I don't even want to think about how much $ I have spent throughout my life modifying different POS cars and trucks just for the experience of doing it.
Back before I was married I used to race 1/4 mile, then I took the running gear out of my race car and put it in a sand rail and raced 1/8 mile for a couple of years. Later on I raced off road. I did all this just for the experience of racing.
Fast foreword to current time. Now I'm married with a kid. I still love to race but at the same time I am not willing to sacrifice the lifestyle my family has to finance my racing addiction.
I have learned over the past several years that I can do both. I partner with companies that have a need for advertisement in exchange for a race budget. Not a large budget, but a budget that will get me racing. I show people and tell people about their products while conducting myself in a positive manner and they let me run their race team. I'm not that good at it compared to the Dustin Websters of the world but I make it work along with holding down a full time job.
When Dave Cole first told me about this wild ass idea that he had for all of us to race all of the Hammer trails and a little bit of desert in a day, I thought to myself "Why not", even though I was racing against people like JR and JT Taylor and I was driving a 90 horse power Formula Toy, it's racing and racing is fun. Little did I know that I would end up with a permanent entry in what has come to be the best off road race in the country.
So I got this entry, I got a sponsor that pays for me to race (Thank God for Marlin Crawler), and even though I don't have the budget to build a winning car I can still race and maybe help advance the Toyota aftermarket a little by testing parts in the toughest race in the country. Oh ya, I also get to hang out with all my firends and make new ones. What would you do? Bow out because a win wasn't within reach? Or go for it, have the experience of a lifetime and still be able to go home to a happy wife because I haven't spent the house payment to race.
We all want to win but we win what we can. If I just finish the KOH race, I win. If I beat someone with a superior rig, I win.
I love that fact that the KOH race isn't really a race, it's a battle. Unlike 1/4 mile drag racing, the KOH race is a hundred times harder (and funner).
You guys enter it because you define fun as winning the race. I enter it because I define fun as experincing the battle.

Pops I can see your point and don't get me wrong, yes we went to KOH thinking we could win, was that my only mind set, hell no. There is a TON of talent that shows up on that lake bed, I'm not one to say or even think I'm better than anyone else. Sure we tried to set ourselves up for the best possible outcome at that top spot, without losing sight of our goal. Did we win, nope. Did we want to win, yup. Did we feel like we won crossing that finish line with a top 20, you damn skippy. Maybe my thinking is a little off to some, or just maybe my perception of a successful race is just different. I'm sure everyone had their own goals for KOH, and I'm sure most would admit that just finishing was one.

Racing is racing.

Just ask Kim Sears...:D

I came up behind her at Rausch Creek and made SURE she knew I was on her tail. I caught her in the fast sections ( I was giving it all it had because I was in serious jeopardy of not making time) and was on her bumper up that big ass hill climb. She pitted, and I did not, that put me in front of her on Jotters. She ended up passing me again there, then disappered.

Later, we both find out she was a lap ahead, but it didnt matter.....We were racing!!!

She told me at the pub that night that she was like "oh, shit, we are going to lose a position!!"

Good times:smokin:
Rob

This is actually something I didn't consider. But it does help me understand why one might race just to finish, I guess you still get the excitement and rush of racing without the pressure of trying to win. But talk about jumping through hoops and paying through the nose for a good time!:eek: I think it would be cheaper to get some blow, a couple hookers, and lock your self in a hotel room for a weekend!:laughing: Hell yould even have enough money left over to Hire Nolan to take pictures and write up a short story about it!:flipoff2:

:laughing:
Rick.

Beers on Jeff in Reno



:eek:

Dave, that is the funniest shit I have seen in a long time :laughing:

Which one is your brother??




Fawk you cant see the shadow coming off his screen name.

I'm Big,
Daves Bigger
His brother is wookie size


This thread is good stuff. Keep it going easypops. Loving the conversations.

I think its all a matter of preference. As much as we need the winners a pretty wise southerner from Travelers Rest once told me that we need the others to show up too. Without those guys payouts are not as high.
Seriously its up to each to come out and compete. I like to win. have tasted it a couple of times and love it, want it again. I also have been out there on the other hand and have loved that part as well. being there and being a part of it is fine for some and being a part of the big show is what those call a win. Its all relevent depending on where each team is in their career. Wins are not also defined as crossing the finish line first. Putting my sponsors first, promoting the sport and getting my ticket punched and paid to go race is a win in my book.

This thread is like the twilight zone.

I'm getting ettiquete tips from EZ Rick...

Everyone keeps punching each other in the nose and then saying 'no offense'...

A Mooneyham is siding with Nolan...

And two of the all time biggest shit talkers on PBB (myself and EZ) are getting upstaged by family members (his pops and my brother)...

what the hell has happened here:confused: :flipoff2:

Oh Sure blame it on me, and your brother, crap, all I asked was a simple question, made a simple obserervation and here comes a freakin shit storm. If I survive being buried in this shit, someone please remind me what has taken place here so the next time i post a question I can delete it quickly. Muchas gracias

Hell yould even have enough money left over to Hire Nolan to take pictures and write up a short story about it!:flipoff2:

:laughing:
Rick.

Shit, that would mean one of you cheap-ass racers would actually pay for a photograph? NOW you are talking out of your ass......

:eek:

Damn...busted:D

Bring it old man. If you can dodge a wrench... you can dodge a Mooneyham. I would assume everyone in your family is as slow as Rick.

No offense


Wow that really is liberating, I can flat out insult the crap out of people and just say "No offense" and I feel so much better.:flipoff2:


Beers on Jeff in Reno

Dave

Isn't that just a fabulous feeling, like a good enema, of course no offense to anyone.

Shit, that would mean one of you cheap-ass racers would actually pay for a photograph? NOW you are talking out of your ass......

This cheap ass racer bought some photos............................................ ... from the good Photographers!:flipoff2:

This is actually something I didn't consider. But it does help me understand why one might race just to finish, I guess you still get the excitement and rush of racing without the pressure of trying to win. But talk about jumping through hoops and paying through the nose for a good time!:eek: I think it would be cheaper to get some blow, a couple hookers, and lock your self in a hotel room for a weekend!:laughing: Hell yould even have enough money left over to Hire Nolan to take pictures and write up a short story about it!:flipoff2:

:laughing:
Rick.

That's my son, the Mooneyhams know how to have a good time, fuck racing.

this cheap ass racer bought some photos............................................ ... From the good photographers!:flipoff2:

ouch!

ouch!

Oops, forgot "no offense"! :laughing:

Pops, go back and read your comments about teams not coming out to win, in essence, are not competing. Considering there is no other race like KOH on the planet, to develop a team, strategy, vehicle, and experience, my example is VERY relavent. Of course people will race even if they know they cannot win. It is very relavent because those teams may have an entirely different goal in mind than winning that particular event.
The koolaid reference is a throwback to some duels I had with some guy you know pretty well...he used to throw that one at me from time to time...it was more for him than you. :dustin:



Pops, go back and read my comment again. With YOUR definition, as well as EZ's, he was a loser. To me, and I stated this in that very paragraph, he's a champ for succeeding as he has. He sees it differently so again, it's a focus on what victory is that makes a difference in how someone sees things.

Dustin, I can't go back and read anything, I'm actually crying from laughing so hard, I haven't had this much fun since I helped in Ricks conception!!!

Isn't that just a fabulous feeling, like a good enema,

Hey, if that's your idea of fun... good on you. I won't question your motivations.

Oops, forgot "no offense"! :laughing:

Damn, I was offended for 3 minutes.

Thanks for that......

Dustin, I can't go back and read anything, I'm actually crying from laughing so hard, I haven't had this much fun since I helped in Ricks conception!!!

Wait a minute...EZ told us his was borne of Immaculate Conception!???! :laughing:

And Pops, in short, I was not bashing EZ, I support him all of the way and tell him in-person EVERY time I see him how stoked I am with how he's done. He always shakes it off and says he's not really happy with his finishes. Again, it's perception...he's already won yet chooses not to acknowledge it because some trophy doesn't say he's a winner.

Ok, lets put a stop to this right now, we're confusing Dave, I'm not sure that's a good thing. I"m willing to accept any and all each and everyones vision of what a victory win place or show is. Every contributor to this discussion has made a valid point. If your not enjoying yourself racing, your probably not doing it right. Whatever your intention is as you race is between yourself, partner, sponsor, or God. No one has to justify their intention to me or anyone else. Go out and race, race your race, you have no control over any other competitor. What have we learned today class? Everyone has their own goals, visions, and excuses. By and large, no one should take any offense to any comment, opinion or instruction I may have imparted expressed or implied. Have a nice day, y'all.

This is actually something I didn't consider. But it does help me understand why one might race just to finish, I guess you still get the excitement and rush of racing without the pressure of trying to win. But talk about jumping through hoops and paying through the nose for a good time!:eek: I think it would be cheaper to get some blow, a couple hookers, and lock your self in a hotel room for a weekend!:laughing: Hell yould even have enough money left over to Hire Nolan to take pictures and write up a short story about it!:flipoff2:

:laughing:
Rick.

LOL....Hey fawker, you are the one who showed up last year with a 4 cyl Toy engine, placed third, and gave the rest of us Japenesse warriors hope!!:D

Nothing wrong with hookers and blow though, hell, it would probably be alot cheaper!!

Don't worry, when we pass you at V2R at 8000 rpm's, I will be sure to honk my Zuk horn so you remember your roots!!!

first round in Reno is on us.....if you guys are still awake when we get there!!!:flipoff2:



Rob

Wait a minute...EZ told us his was borne of Immaculate Conception!???! :laughing:

And Pops, in short, I was not bashing EZ, I support him all of the way and tell him in-person EVERY time I see him how stoked I am with how he's done. He always shakes it off and says he's not really happy with his finishes. Again, it's perception...he's already won yet chooses not to acknowledge it because some trophy doesn't say he's a winner.

I know Dustin, I was funnin ya. Rick is super competitive, sometimes that's a good thing.

Ok, lets put a stop to this right now, I'm talking in circles and rapidly losing this arguement, I'm not sure that's a good thing.


Fixed for accuracy ;) Keep bringing it Pops, this ain't my first rodeo either. Do a search on your son's screen name. We've gone round and round before. Usually I just have someone drive by his shop with something shiny and he gets distracted. Don't quit on me now.:flipoff2:

See you at Reno Rocks

Glad to see that set you off :laughing:

I was invited by Dave to compete in 2008. I chose not to race because I knew I could not win. I am like Easypops. If I can't win, I am not going to race. I would never, ever show up in a competition and not be prepared to win. That is why I have chosen recreational wheeling and writing about the competitors over being "that racer guy"

You keep showing up not to win. I will keep taking pictures of your effort.



Funny that you think you can't win so you choose to not race. I on the other hand woud line up in my clapped out samurai for the chance to race. I would not be so diluted to think I was going to win but I would be so diluted to put on the best effort I could and let the cards fall as they may. You never know cars could break tires go flat and people get lost. Of coarse I want to win but I can't race Campbells money or Rick's mouth so I will run as far and as fast as I can and hope its enough. In the end I will have a Metric shit ton of fun some good stories and spend a lot of time with freinds and family. plus I will beat Rick to Reno:flipoff2::flipoff2:

IF you don't start how are you ever going to finish???

wayne

Bigelow, your'e still one of my heroes.

John James, I hope theres more to your story, I need a good read. What did you drag race?

Fixed for accuracy ;) Keep bringing it Pops, this ain't my first rodeo either. Do a search on your son's screen name. We've gone round and round before. Usually I just have someone drive by his shop with something shiny and he gets distracted. Don't quit on me now.:flipoff2:

See you at Reno Rocks

That is too too funny, that was precisely what I was trying to say, you just have that magic touch with words, i am in awe, truly. Besides that I was hoping you had gone down for a nap. I get the feeling you are creep doggin me, waiting for any little slip up, ready to pounce. Well, this ain't my first rodeo either sheep wrangler, don't get out of the saddle.

Dave, It should be obvious to me, but I did say I was simple minded didn't I, and I think I've proven it. But, who is your brother, he's not one of the ass clowns is he?

Dave, It should be obvious to me, but I did say I was simple minded didn't I, and I think I've proven it. But, who is your brother, he's not one of the ass clowns is he?


I think we've proven we're all assclowns :laughing: but my brother is PhillyFan55. And what Bigelow said about him made me laugh harder than I have ever have at something on the board.

d

Fixed for accuracy ;) Keep bringing it Pops, this ain't my first rodeo either. Do a search on your son's screen name. We've gone round and round before. Usually I just have someone drive by his shop with something shiny and he gets distracted. Don't quit on me now.:flipoff2:

See you at Reno Rocks

I was curious why he keeps the doors closed!

Dave, It should be obvious to me, but I did say I was simple minded didn't I, and I think I've proven it. But, who is your brother, he's not one of the ass clowns is he?

I am Deuce Bigelows biggest fan. Go #5!!! I might make it to New Egypt as I am only 5 minutes away at Fort Dix.

In some circles I am sure I have been called much worse than an ass clown.

In the Rock Crawling World I am not well known because I was never a big fan. At 6'8 350lbs it is difficult to find a trail ride where I didn't smash my head on every bump. Ecspecially when I tried my last trail ride with Dustin. Needless to say I walked back to camp until Mustard Dog gave me a ride on a ATV...what an adventure.

However...I went to RC and saw the "new" version of rock crawling and was amazed at what I saw from Jeff and Dave; Lance/Camo; all the competitors; the fans that showed up; and the entire RC family and surrounding area.

I spent many hours watching Dave, Bender, Chris Ridgway, Flash, Dustin/Becca etc...wrench on trucks in California and just shook my head. I never understood the concept of taking perfectly good vehicles (whatever they were) and modifying them to climb up walls. I never understood the concept of going out onto a dry lakebed with no water or cell phone service or street lights and driving these creations until they break...just to fix them again and do it all over.

Until I went to RC. Then I saw many variatons of winners. I saw Jotters Way and saw everyone that completed that obstacle was a winner whether they broke or not. Then I saw Adam Woodly drive through what appeared to be the only true rock section with only three wheels. I believe it was Kim that flipped on the dropoff obstacle and screamed she did not want help because she would be DQ'd for outside assitance...the crowd help...they were all winners. I saw Kat on Trail Climb 5 spotting for Deuce and every other rig that came through after she broke. That is a winner. Not sure who it was that finished last when they came over the last obstacle...but everyone that ran to help him was a winner. You would only be a loser if you had dry eyes when he heard he made the Big Show in Cali and didn't show a little emotion.

I guess what I am trying to say...you don't even have to compete in order to be a winner. Anyone that competes, supports or just simply enjoys the events are winners.

GO DEUCE!!!!!

John James, I hope theres more to your story, I need a good read. What did you drag race?

I had a 68 Camaro, tubbed and narrowed, 383 chevy, 200hp nitrous. It ran 10.80's at best. I got too many tickets driving it on the street so I had to sell it.

just have someone drive by his shop with something shiny and he gets distracted.

U'mmmmm, this applies to EVERY ONE of us! :laughing:

I am Deuce Bigelows biggest fan. Go #5!!! I might make it to New Egypt as I am only 5 minutes away at Fort Dix.

In some circles I am sure I have been called much worse than an ass clown.

In the Rock Crawling World I am not well known because I was never a big fan. At 6'8 350lbs it is difficult to find a trail ride where I didn't smash my head on every bump. Ecspecially when I tried my last trail ride with Dustin. Needless to say I walked back to camp until Mustard Dog gave me a ride on a ATV...what an adventure.

However...I went to RC and saw the "new" version of rock crawling and was amazed at what I saw from Jeff and Dave; Lance/Camo; all the competitors; the fans that showed up; and the entire RC family and surrounding area.

I spent many hours watching Dave, Bender, Chris Ridgway, Flash, Dustin/Becca etc...wrench on trucks in California and just shook my head. I never understood the concept of taking perfectly good vehicles (whatever they were) and modifying them to climb up walls. I never understood the concept of going out onto a dry lakebed with no water or cell phone service or street lights and driving these creations until they break...just to fix them again and do it all over.

Until I went to RC. Then I saw many variatons of winners. I saw Jotters Way and saw everyone that completed that obstacle was a winner whether they broke or not. Then I saw Adam Woodly drive through what appeared to be the only true rock section with only three wheels. I believe it was Kim that flipped on the dropoff obstacle and screamed she did not want help because she would be DQ'd for outside assitance...the crowd help...they were all winners. I saw Kat on Trail Climb 5 spotting for Deuce and every other rig that came through after she broke. That is a winner. Not sure who it was that finished last when they came over the last obstacle...but everyone that ran to help him was a winner. You would only be a loser if you had dry eyes when he heard he made the Big Show in Cali and didn't show a little emotion.

I guess what I am trying to say...you don't even have to compete in order to be a winner. Anyone that competes, supports or just simply enjoys the events are winners.

GO DEUCE!!!!!


That was well said and very true. We thought we were winners when we passed the whole gaggle at jotters was exciting to due it in a 4cyl jeep and then try trail 5 and made it up in one attemt to find out we were in 3rd place past check point one than the clutch went bye bye but I enjoyed every minute of it. Hope to see you at New Egypt on June 20th for the promo Rock Racing Jason @ NJXOR

Pops,

You are not alone. "We" (Joint Force Racing) are a "new" team (but not new to the sport) racing for the KOH crown and we are fully in it to win. I know we have everything it takes - a driver as talented as any there are, period. A builder as talented as any other on the planet. A team as awesome as any one could ask for. Some great sponsors. Oh, and some idiot in the background blathering on about "double shear joints" or something. ;)

We finished our car only hours before RCQ, not the best strategy, but it gave us huge confidence in the car. Lots of people claim you need lots of seat time etc. I have always believed that's not necesarily true if the car is engineered, designed, and built right - and I think we proved that - maybe even surprising a few people. We did well at RCQ, but we could have and should have done better - I just made a couple of mistakes. Lessons learned. Experience does count too. In this thing you need all the tools in the bag to win - maybe even a little lady luck - but chance favours the prepared! We don't intend to be big smack talkers or arrogant - there are many great competitors and only a fool isn't humble in the presence of greatness - but we damn sure know we have everything it takes to win and we damn sure intend to. We won't ever give up trying but we won't cry if we lose either. Any way you slice it - it's going to be awesome!

Funny that you think you can't win so you choose to not race. I on the other hand woud line up in my clapped out samurai for the chance to race.

When I read Nolen's post, that was the first thing I thought of but chose not to feed the troll...Even my 11 year old isn't afraid to play even when he knows he can't win. :laughing: I've changed my mind...

Nolen, you're a total pussy... "I won't win so I'm not gonna play!!!" "WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

When I read Nolen's post, that was the first thing I thought of but chose not to feed the troll...Even my 11 year old isn't afraid to play even when he knows he can't win. :laughing: I've changed my mind...

Nolen, you're a total pussy... "I won't win so I'm not gonna play!!!" "WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:


Look everybody... MIDGET FIGHT!!!!!!

No offense to the true little people of this world:flipoff2:

Nolen, you're a total pussy... "I won't win so I'm not gonna play!!!" "WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

Dude you gotta be kidding me? This from the guy that tried, never once won and then quit to let his wifey compete? Give me a break :laughing:

I choose to earn a good living and buy my own stuff rather than spend my life waiting for someone to pay me to be 10th place.

I laugh at you daily.

Look everybody... MIDGET FIGHT!!!!!!

No offense to the true little people of this world:flipoff2:

I'm not too offended. :D

Dude you gotta be kidding me? This from the guy that tried, never once won and then quit to let his wifey compete? Give me a break :laughing:

I choose to earn a good living and buy my own stuff rather than spend my life waiting for someone to pay me to be 10th place.

I laugh at you daily.


Nolan, you might want to check yourself.

A) There is alot more to why Dustin stopped driving other than ... he quit. Secondly, our sport has done nothing but grow because of that development. I've never seen anyone so tirelessly promote EVERYONE in our sport the way Dustin does on a mic, on the radio, walking down the street, whatever.

B) I've got $5.00 says you wouldn't sniff 10th place at in ProMod or at KOH. Regardless of the budget, team, sponsors or anything else. The competition has gotten extremely tight.

C) You choose to sit on your couch, great. We don't. We choose the night after night of wrenching. Yeah, we're dumb. But don't act like you are on some higher plain because you've made some kind of life decision not to even throw your hat in the ring.

You've got no dog in this fight. From my perspective if you haven't toed that line, you shouldn't be casting aspersions at the methods of those who do.

No offen...aw fawk it. Bitch if you want.

Nolan, you might want to check yourself.

A) There is alot more to why Dustin stopped driving other than ... he quit. Secondly, our sport has done nothing but grow because of that development. I've never seen anyone so tirelessly promote EVERYONE in our sport the way Dustin does on a mic, on the radio, walking down the street, whatever.

B) I've got $5.00 says you wouldn't sniff 10th place at in ProMod or at KOH. Regardless of the budget, team, sponsors or anything else. The competition has gotten extremely tight.

C) You choose to sit on your couch, great. We don't. We choose the night after night of wrenching. Yeah, we're dumb. But don't act like you are on some higher plain because you've made some kind of life decision not to even throw your hat in the ring.

You've got no dog in this fight. From my perspective if you haven't toed that line, you shouldn't be casting aspersions at the methods of those who do.

No offen...aw fawk it. Bitch if you want.

I agree there is a lot more to Dustin's reasoning....he had his, I had mine.

I too agree that I would not be competitive, never once said I would be.

I don't sit on the couch my friend. I get out there and run tough trails in the US with my buddies and see most of the US doing it. You can not imagine the logistical difficulty of wheeling when you live in shit-hole MS.

The reason I did not answer Izzy's challenge is because you are right, I do NOT have a dog in this fight. I know I can never win a war of words with Dustin, he has the microphone, but for him to call me a pussy for not competing is laughable in my opinion. Coming from him especially.

Phillyfan55, Dayum, 6'8" 350# you did realize the assclown question was made with no offense intended? Are you going to stay on the East coast, hopefully? It should go without saying no offense was ever meant towards your little brother either. That small bit of jocularity about hunting him down up the hill, you know that's just testosterone talking. I've got an appointment to go get nutered in the morning, so we'll just kinda gloss over that. Besides, big guys have big senses of humor right, right, am I right, please tell me I'm right.

Phillyfan55, Dayum, 6'8" 350# you did realize the assclown question was made with no offense intended? Are you going to stay on the East coast, hopefully? It should go without saying no offense was ever meant towards your little brother either. That small bit of jocularity about hunting him down up the hill, you know that's just testosterone talking. I've got an appointment to go get nutered in the morning, so we'll just kinda gloss over that. Besides, big guys have big senses of humor right, right, am I right, please tell me I'm right.

That's some funny stuff pops. He's more harmless than I am. Unless you're a Pirate and he's been eating death berries with Bob Standages wife:laughing:

And he's my little brother. ;)

John James, that's cool, do you ever regret getting rid of it?

That's some funny stuff pops. He's more harmless than I am. Unless you're a Pirate and he's been eating death berries with Bob Standages wife:laughing:

And he's my little brother. ;)

In size, pardon me you don't appear quite that large, so he's your younger brother?

In size, pardon me you don't appear quite that large, so he's your younger brother?

Yep. I'm the smallest guy on my dad's side of the family for four generations. By a bunch. My dad is the next shortest at 6'6", I'm only 6'4"

Billavista, thank you. I followed your build thread, great narration, you my friend are a class act. Thank you Jeeeesus, glad to hear someone else actually wanted to win (this should start another shit storm). Congratulations on the RCQ finish/KOH spot. Did you feel the suspension was close to dialed in?

Yep. I'm the smallest guy on my dad's side of the family for four generations. By a bunch. My dad is the next shortest at 6'6", I'm only 6'4"

And you make a comment about a midget fight, brass balls mi amigo

That's some funny stuff pops. He's more harmless than I am. Unless you're a Pirate and he's been eating death berries with Bob Standages wife:laughing:

And he's my little brother. ;)

So I have free rein to give him his comuppance if I so desire with no repurcussions? Someday I'd like to hear the "death berries" saga. Welcome aboard Daves lil bro, does he have a proper name?

lol at the No Offense....reminds me of....
"With all due respect I had no idea you had experimental sugery to have your balls removed."

"What!!!"

"Well I said with all due respect."

"That doesn’t mean you get to say what ever you want!!"

"It sure as hell does!!"


http://www.theflickchicks.com/images/Talladega_Nights_The_Ballad_Of_Ricky_Bobby_3.jpg

Welcome aboard Daves lil bro, does he have a proper name?


Lets call him TINY:flipoff2:

PUjeeper, no offense meant, that's pure CYA. Truth be told, you can rag the shit out of someone, nuttin they can do about it, let them get upset, you meant no offense. They don't know any better, but youv'e got that big iron diaper over your ass. Dave dropped the ball earlier: no offen...aw fawk it. He left himself open to the scorn of anyone he butthurt. Let's keep this between us, OK.

Lets call him TINY:flipoff2:

You go first!!

Lets call him TINY:flipoff2:

His old skool nickname is Tree, but Chris is his real name.

d

Holy shit this is a long thread. I'm just working on my rain dance for KOH 2010 :smokin:

Clayton

Dave, is this the worst corruption of a thread you've ever seen? I felt guilty for posting so many times to it, then I realized I wasn't the first to jack it. I was just the worst offender. Does Chris prefer Chris, or Tree?

Dave, is this the worst corruption of a thread you've ever seen? I felt guilty for posting so many times to it, then I realized I wasn't the first to jack it. I was just the worst offender. Does Chris prefer Chris, or Tree?

Worst corruption, not even close.

I highly encourage you to go over to the chit chat section. Just post up a 'Hi, I'm new here' thread. They would welcome you with open arms.

;)

Edit: Chris works, but for the sake of distinction...Tree might be better around here. Dustin and Nolen can be the shrubs. :laughing:

The reason I did not answer Izzy's challenge is because you are right, I do NOT have a dog in this fight. I know I can never win a war of words with Dustin, he has the microphone, but for him to call me a pussy for not competing is laughable in my opinion. Coming from him especially.


Not a challenge just an observation, No judgment on my part do what you want to do, does not affect me in the least.

One of the best little personal moments of KOH was a comment you made to me @the finish. I got no beef with anyone.

cept maybe Rick I gotta get my money back:flipoff2:.

wayne

Holy shit this is a long thread. I'm just working on my rain dance for KOH 2010 :smokin:

Clayton

Long? Pointless too. Clayton congratulations for your RCQ finish. The shit storm has finally passed, assuming you've read the earlier posts. Believe me, I've learned my lesson about questioning anyones motivation at the start of the race. I'm a changed man, I don't want to know whether you wanted to win or not. I could give a shit less, doesn't intrest me in the least, I'm not gonna ask, don't even tell me. Just nod your head. Do it now.

Long? Pointless too. Clayton congratulations for your RCQ finish. The shit storm has finally passed, assuming you've read the earlier posts. Believe me, I've learned my lesson about questioning anyones motivation at the start of the race. I'm a changed man, I don't want to know whether you wanted to win or not. I could give a shit less, doesn't intrest me in the least, I'm not gonna ask, don't even tell me. Just nod your head. Do it now.


At first I thought the similarities between you and Rick were uncanny. And now I've come to realize you have a sense of humor. What happened to Rick? Beat him too much? Not enough?

Worst corruption, not even close.

I highly encourage you to go over to the chit chat section. Just post up a 'Hi, I'm new here' thread. They would welcome you with open arms.

;)

Edit: Chris works, but for the sake of distinction...Tree might be better around here. Dustin and Nolen can be the shrubs. :laughing:

Tryin to get rid of me, I prefer to be with my own kind, lowlifes, bottom feeders, and mouth breathers, thank you very much, I'll stay right where I am.

Holy crap this thread has gone 2 pages since my last post :eek:

Unfortunately Dave copied my rude answer to Dustin calling me an asshole or I would erase it.

Personal attacks on the web are gay, I am calm now.......I appologize if I offended anyone.......er, I mean, NO OFFENSE!

I am climbing back on the couch....night, night.....

At first I thought the similarities between you and Rick were uncanny. And now I've come to realize you have a sense of humor. What happened to Rick? Beat him too much? Not enough?

Hell, I'm good looking too, did you notice that also. Beat him too much, I doubt it, how much is too much?

Damn Late to the party again! Best thread in a long while.

In Baja we have a long standing tradition. Since the Purse sucks. Winner buys the bar. Guess that means a few people actually think I might have a shot.:flipoff2:


EZ's Pop.

John James summed it up best. Its different for each person. As a promoter I feel its my job to put on a race that attracts all sorts of drivers and teams. IMHO I think there where about 15 teams that were out for the win. My goal is to present a race that still attracts the other 70 something teams. ( It is damn cool and means alto more to win against a field of 90 rather then 9) What ever that attraction may manifest itself as, thats the goal. From the beginning, the sell of KOH has been the adventure, and media generated. We work hard to present that forum, so that everyone feels they received a return on investment. Everyone is our goal, no matter why they race.

As a racer My goals change( from race to race). I don't personally approach any race looking for the win. Personally my goals are to do the very best I can do, and push past my physical or financial limits. I do my very best to represent my sponsors and team to the best of my ability's. Lastly I make an effort to have a good time. Thats low on the list believe it or not, because my motivation is the personal challenge, not my comfort or happiness. I have left teams in the past because I no longer could afford to race at a level that met my needs. Weather that was based on finance, or mental investment. ( I can relate to not wanting to race if you can't have a shot at the win)

For V2R I have to wear both hats. Something that is proving not the most comforting. My first goal has to be the expansion of Ultra4 and Hammerking Productions partners and teams. My personal goal is to see the finish line. I can only say this about winning that race. I will never give up, and I will pour every ounce of energy I have to spare into exceeding my personal limits. Total focus on winning has to take a back seat at this time, but I will find much enjoyment in the stories that will be generated in the small battles, fellowship, near misses, and great passes. For me...... Personally..... Every car that crosses that finish line will be a victory no matter who is driving. It is a dream of mine to be involved in the creation of this class, and to just be a part of the entire experience.

Winning would be the icing on the cake. No win can replace winning the 2007 Fabtech 400 in Henderson Nevada. It was the first big win at a pro level. Winning V2R would be sweet, but I'll be happy to continue my un interrupted streak of finishing, or handing off the car in good order to the next driver. Something I can say I have been able to do at every race I have driven in since January 2007. ( Most all of them since have been on the podium.:flipoff2:)

As you where!

By the way I suck at one sentence posts.:flipoff2:

BTW, Dave, we've learned your height, how much do you weigh, I just need to know so I can recognize you in Reno? Tree is at 350, do you weigh more?

I am climbing back on the couch....night, night.....


Must of struck nerve there huh Nolen.:flipoff2:

Heck you even changed your sig. I'll buy you a lemonade next time I see you.

Dave

BTW, Dave, we've learned your height, how much do you weigh, I just need to know so I can recognize you in Reno? Tree is at 350, do you weigh more?

Are you asking me out on a date? Yet another similarity:laughing:

Jeff, Yes you are late, everyone else has already tried to ream my ass. But thank you for that great explanation, blah, blah, blah. I forget, are you the nice one or the mean one, this is all so confusing, pardon me I have to take my meds.

Are you asking me out on a date? Yet another similarity:laughing:
Maybe, are you better looking than Dustin?

Maybe, are you better looking than Dustin?


Pfft, of course. But I'm already sweet on Bigelow ;)

http://photos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs094.snc1/4687_1148439437722_1429673935_395706_2215903_n.jpg

Shit Jeff, I wish I'd taken my meds then read your post, wow best thread in a while, you must be the nice one!!! So I did have Dave figured wrong, well the right drugs can sure make a difference in your quality of life.

Jeff, Yes you are late, everyone else has already tried to ream my ass. But thank you for that great explanation, blah, blah, blah. I forget, are you the nice one or the mean one, this is all so confusing, pardon me I have to take my meds.

Depends who you ask.

Wow, look at those legs, 380? I'd hafta be on top!

I'd hafta be on top!

It's now officially the worst corrupted thread of all time:flipoff2:

Worst corruption, not even close.

I highly encourage you to go over to the chit chat section. Just post up a 'Hi, I'm new here' thread. They would welcome you with open arms.

;)

Edit: Chris works, but for the sake of distinction...Tree might be better around here. Dustin and Nolen can be the shrubs. :laughing:

Oh, I get it now you want your thread back, sorry comrade no can do

I might make it to New Egypt as I am only 5 minutes away at Fort Dix.

that makes you from north jersey so you should be a jets, nets, yankees, and ranger fan right?

:flipoff2:

It's now officially the worst corrupted thread of all time:flipoff2:

That hurts, that really stings, Jeffs better looking anyway, is he available?

Dave, still silence,, uhhh, three95, forgot, the camera adds 10 pounds? 385? Will you at least tell me if I'm warm?

It's now officially the worst corrupted thread of all time:flipoff2:

Let's see if we can set another record, ten pages of mindless drivel! Go team.

This from the guy that tried, never once won and then quit to let his wifey compete? Give me a break :laughing:


Meh…I competed a stock mod in the pro mod class my first year as a challenge and did very well, won a season title in my second year year, an event here and there over the years, and then won one of my last events, the western national finals, which was my first event competing on stickeys. So Nolen, you're wrong, but I don't expect much out of you anyway. However, let’s say I was a complete loser and I never did win a single event let alone touched a podium…no...go further and let’s say that I never even finished a single course. Imagine that...I competed for 5 years traveling to an average of 20 events per season as I competed in three different series, and we'll still imagine I never once finished a course. And STILL, I was still willing to go out and compete, even though I admitted over and over and over that I was no Jason Paule or Tracy Jordan. I was there, trying my hand against the best in an attempt to become better myself. Yet you say you won’t even compete if you can’t win. :laughing: Grow up.

Let's see if we can set another record, ten pages of mindless drivel! Go team.

Not the start I was looking for Dustin!!

Not the start I was looking for Dustin!!

Dude, at this point you're a caboose with bad brakes trying to stop a 500 car freight train running downhill. It may be better just to look for soft ground ahead and jump off that train...sometimes it's safer to watch the carnage than be a part of it.

Dude, at this point you're a caboose with bad brakes trying to stop a 500 car freight train running downhill. It may be better just to look for soft ground ahead and jump off that train...sometimes it's safer to watch the carnage than be a part of it.

This appeared to be a train wreck from 3rd page on, only reason I didn't jump off sooner, Dave and a few others wanted me to stay. I tried twice to leave. Dave did invite me to visit another area, perhaps it is time to depart. Nolen has gone to bed, maybe it's time to give it a rest. This really doesn't have to get any uglier.

There's prolly a good thread discussing religion and politics in Chit Chat...you could head over there and give that a whirl... :laughing:

There's prolly a good thread discussing religion and politics in Chit Chat...you could head over there and give that a whirl... :laughing:

Or then again I could stay here and help you with your anger management problem, dude. I am not your enemy. Perhaps you are not thinking clearly, take a couple of deep breaths and read this slowly. Nolen doesn't want to compete, either he may not have a vehicle he thinks would be competetive, or he doesn't think his skills are up to the demands. There may even be other reasons. That's not so hard to understand, is it? Think about it, and let it go. IIRC he wanted to retract some of the things he said earlier, why not give him a chance. Thank you

Or then again I could stay here and help you with your anger management problem...

:laughing: You're on a roll pops...you never got off that caboose after all and are now driving this train again! :laughing:

Oh, and I'm not angry, I'm laughing as always. Nolen pulls this often enough that I know how to handle things. I learned that from dealing with THE BEST pirate shit talker, your one and only son. He and I went more than a few rounds back in the day and we still laugh about it at the campfire.

G'nite!

Or then again I could stay here and help you with your anger management problem, dude. I am not your enemy. Perhaps you are not thinking clearly, take a couple of deep breaths and read this slowly. Nolen doesn't want to compete, either he may not have a vehicle he thinks would be competetive, or he doesn't think his skills are up to the demands. There may even be other reasons. That's not so hard to understand, is it? Think about it, and let it go. IIRC he wanted to retract some of the things he said earlier, why not give him a chance. Thank you

Pops, you do realize you are defending Nolen (who Rick hates) and ripping on Dustin (who supports Rick)...right?


I'm not really getting involved but I enjoy watching you post which must drive Rick nuts! Too funny! lol I'm a little weirded out that my dad just reads Pirate! hahahahaha

Must of struck nerve there huh Nolen.:flipoff2:

Heck you even changed your sig. I'll buy you a lemonade next time I see you.

Dave

Dave,

I just find it funny how some comp guys think that those of us that don't line up don't have any creds. I thought it was sig worthy.

The stuff from Dustin? Whatever, I am not rising to the bait, I am headed to go wheeling in Hot Springs this morning.

BTW, I am working for you this weekend, so be nice. :flipoff2:

Pops, fight the good fight :bounce:

Long? Pointless too. Clayton congratulations for your RCQ finish. The shit storm has finally passed, assuming you've read the earlier posts. Believe me, I've learned my lesson about questioning anyones motivation at the start of the race. I'm a changed man, I don't want to know whether you wanted to win or not. I could give a shit less, doesn't intrest me in the least, I'm not gonna ask, don't even tell me. Just nod your head. Do it now.

;)

that makes you from north jersey so you should be a jets, nets, yankees, and ranger fan right?

:flipoff2:

If I am not mistaken...this is Chris...who spent some time in Jersey...and went to a Phillies game with me? Being from the Left Coast I know you don't quite understand the geographical breakdown of New Jersey. New Jersey is actually two different states with a seperation linie of Trenton. I am south of Trenton which makes me from South Jersey. You were closer to North Jersey when you lived in Bordentown!

I bleed whatever color of Philadelphia is playing at the time. We have no Mannywoody (nice female fertility druggie):flipoff2:...but we do currently have the title of World Champs. I know you are going to say that is an entirely different state...but half the NY teams play in North Jersey.

POPS...let me know when your ready for the wild berry story. That will take up almost an entire page and push it past the 10 page post mark.

Buenos dias gentlemen, well i see no one knows what mindless drivel is, so carry on. As far as I know I haven't made any enemies here, like Will Rogers I consider everyone my friend. My son Rick and I are two seperate people, probably a lot alike, but different none the less. He may have issues with someone, thats his burden to carry. Like I said he's super competitive, I've mellowed over the years, learned a while back life really is too short. You ought to be happy for and with the time you have left. I carry no grudges. BTW I also have another son, Matthew, he lives in Colorado Springs.

phillyfan55, Save that story for me, I'd like to hear it in person, maybe at RCQ next year. Conflicting events kept me from heading to PA this year. I'm really enjoying Ultra4 events.

Grab the throttle Dustin, this driver is leaving the seat. I've got some things to do today, might as well get to it. You boys play nice while I'm gone, and get this place cleaned up.

The stuff from Dustin? Whatever, I am not rising to the bait,

What's the matter Nolen...you get pissy when out of the blue you call someone out then they defend themselves and tell you basically to fuck off? Then you continue to play hardball, spreading BS, get slapped again, and then say someone is baiting you? WTF is that???

The Midget hate has gotten strong in this one!

Maybe KOH '10 we can have a "Midget Tossing" event. We'll get Dave and Tree to toss Dustin, Rick, and Nolen. :laughing:

I mean holy shit, I followed along until 10:30CPT last night and was in tears with laughter. Best thread in a long time. Best insight in a long time.


Pops- What about Glory?
Everyone, and I do believe this even though they may say "They just want to finish" have that corner of their brain that is screaming "WIN!!! WIN!!! WIN!!!" when they leave the line in any race.
But then reality sets in, as the race progresses....
Winning no longer becomes an option...
Then you drop in priority, "Just Finish"....
Then if that doesn't become a viable option its "Just get to the next pit/checkpoint/whatever"...
Then it is just get us back to camp for cold beer, and to hear the stories of the guys in front of and behind us.

But gameplanning, goal setting before hand yeah a win is where its at, but if you just finish you'll still be happy. Of course you want to win, you want the shot. But come on its like buying Lottery tickets with slightly better odds.

The Midget hate has gotten strong in this one!

Maybe KOH '10 we can have a "Midget Tossing" event. We'll get Dave and Tree to toss Dustin, Rick, and Nolen. :laughing:[/B]


Only if I can first pick of the midget to toss. I would take Dustin because I know as a former member of the Red Bull Extreme Cliff Diving Team he would execute the proper technique once I got him airborn to get us that extra distance to win it.

That is my first thought...toss that midget to win. Not just to toss him and say I did it...but WIN!!!! I don't care what the financial burden is or the physical punishment the midget endures...I just want to WIN!!!

Dave set it up!

Only if I can first pick of the midget to toss. I would take Dustin

Dude, I'm your midget for sure as I know how to piss you off. I'll tell you the Eagles suck ass and you'll chuck me twice as far as you normally could! We'd make the perfect team! :laughing:

Dude, I'm your midget for sure as I know how to piss you off. I'll tell you the Eagles suck ass and you'll chuck me twice as far as you normally could! We'd make the perfect team! :laughing:

What are you saying Dustin, that Chris can't handle the truth?



:p
:laughing:

Hi.

cm "my 2 cents" k

Dude, I'm your midget for sure as I know how to piss you off. I'll tell you the Eagles suck ass and you'll chuck me twice as far as you normally could! We'd make the perfect team! :laughing:

Count Dustin and I in for the First Annual KOHMT (Midget Throw). I am going to go out on a limb and declare us the winners already. How is that for forward thinking POPS!

To make it an even better event I think we should toss the midgets over the camp fire just as Bender places some Mickey bombs. That could add extra air if they hit the mushroom cloud at the right time. Firesuit optional!

Dave I hope you don't mind the acronym enfrigement. Can we put our heads together and come up with a rule book...registraton fee...and emergency contigency plan in case one of the wee fellows happens to land in the fire. Joshua Tree has a good emergency trailer not to far away, I think!

Dustin if you prefer I call you something else besides my little midget please let me know. GO EAGLES!!!!

What are you saying Dustin, that Chris can't handle the truth?



:p
:laughing:

I see your in Apple Valley where I lived briefly. If I remember correctly the reason I bought a big screen TV out there was because the Eagles were on TV every Sunday in Cali. Not the Raiders...or the 49ers...or the Chargers! Who is your team? Tony Homo and the Cowgirls?

Now I put one+one to equal this is my old landlord. Dustin he is pushing the buttons already! We are in good shape. For aerodynamic purposes and to take a little weight off you may be my second choice Chris.

If I am not mistaken...this is Chris...who spent some time in Jersey...and went to a Phillies game with me? Being from the Left Coast I know you don't quite understand the geographical breakdown of New Jersey. New Jersey is actually two different states with a seperation linie of Trenton. I am south of Trenton which makes me from South Jersey. You were closer to North Jersey when you lived in Bordentown!

I bleed whatever color of Philadelphia is playing at the time. We have no Mannywoody (nice female fertility druggie):flipoff2:...but we do currently have the title of World Champs. I know you are going to say that is an entirely different state...but half the NY teams play in North Jersey.

yep thatd be me. you comin out to the right coast (that would be the west coast for all the wrong errr ... east coast residents) for KOH10? if you could grab me a meatball parm from anthonys on 206 on your way out id appreciate it.

i was well informed about the breakdown of jersey by your brother. the dodgers still got the best record in baseball and have a better record without WOman ram. well see whos where in october.

Dude, I'm your midget for sure as I know how to piss you off. I'll tell you the Eagles suck ass and you'll chuck me twice as far as you normally could! We'd make the perfect team! :laughing:

call him an cowboys fan, it will have a better effect.

I see your in Apple Valley where I lived briefly. If I remember correctly the reason I bought a big screen TV out there was because the Eagles were on TV every Sunday in Cali. Not the Raiders...or the 49ers...or the Chargers! Who is your team? Tony Homo and the Cowgirls?

Now I put one+one to equal this is my old landlord. Dustin he is pushing the buttons already! We are in good shape. For aerodynamic purposes and to take a little weight off you may be my second choice Chris.

:laughing:

Pops, you do realize you are defending Nolen (who Rick hates) and ripping on Dustin (who supports Rick)...right?


I'm not really getting involved but I enjoy watching you post which must drive Rick nuts! Too funny! lol I'm a little weirded out that my dad just reads Pirate! hahahahaha

Your first statement is not technically completely accurate. But I am feeling the second one!:laughing:

;)

I think this means he wanted to win Pop?:smokin:

The Midget hate has gotten strong in this one!

Maybe KOH '10 we can have a "Midget Tossing" event. We'll get Dave and Tree to toss Dustin, Rick, and Nolen. :laughing:




Oh yeah thats just Fawkin great!:shaking: I'll end up third again!:flipoff2:


This is pretty entertaining,:laughing:
Easy.

phillyfan55, Tree my buddy, you are heads and shoulders above your brother in more ways than one. You are quite the promoter. You do realize you can't enter this competetion with the intent of winning, that is verboten. Not at all politically correct, this may cause mental anguish against fellow competitors. Feel free to toss any midget, mentally or statutorally as far as you can, only with the intent of finishing the event, no offense to anyone.

;)

Clayton, I knew you were a winner, thanks pisan

hey easyspops,

You are a great comentator. You are keeping this great forum alive with some laughter. Hope to meet you out at the lake bed in Feb 2010:laughing::laughing::laughing:

Pops, you do realize you are defending Nolen (who Rick hates) and ripping on Dustin (who supports Rick)...right?


I'm not really getting involved but I enjoy watching you post which must drive Rick nuts! Too funny! lol I'm a little weirded out that my dad just reads Pirate! hahahahaha
Evel, It may appear I'm ripping, or supporting someone, trying not to, trying to remain impartial. I don't have a dog in this fight. You know i've been checking out different threads on Pirate for a few years, I finally realized I can be as irritating as anyone else, why not voice my opinion. Well now I realize why I should have kept my opinion to myself, but here I am one of the assclowns.

Speaking of competitive spirits, here's a great story.
At the last W.E. Rock event, we were approching our last course on day two. Dave Cole was in 3rd, I was in second and Brian Ellinger was in first. There was almost no way we could change the finishing order unless someone made a huge mistake (which didn't happen).
Dave came up and sat next to me. He let out a big sigh and said "John, I am really trying hard to think of something I hate worse than loosing, I thought of getting my wisdom teeth pulled, but I hate loosing worse than that" :D:D::laughing::laughing:.

hey easyspops,

You are a great comentator. You are keeping this great forum alive with some laughter. Hope to meet you out at the lake bed in Feb 2010:laughing::laughing::laughing:

Thanx Grip, "great forum", man it's getting closer to mindless drivel than I'm really comfortable with. I should be easy to find on the lake bed, I'll have Dustin on my shoulders. It'll be a treat to meet you also.Theres about to be a change in the weather, stay tuned.

Thank you John James, I thought the big galoot might have actually been a competitor.

Hey pops just so you know I compete to win, everytime! Even if there isn't a snowballs chance in hell in my mind I am still competing to win, I'm not in it to sit around the campfire and sing coombayah. Winning isn't everything to everyone but in the back of everyones mind the thought is there, if they say otherwise I say bullshit.:flipoff2: That picture of Dave and Doug making out just shows how much weight a loveseat can hold.:eek:

yep thatd be me. you comin out to the right coast (that would be the west coast for all the wrong errr ... east coast residents) for KOH10? if you could grab me a meatball parm from anthonys on 206 on your way out id appreciate it.

i was well informed about the breakdown of jersey by your brother. the dodgers still got the best record in baseball and have a better record without WOman ram. well see whos where in october.



call him an cowboys fan, it will have a better effect.

Chris...I will be there this year. It is getting to big and if I don't make it soon I will have to get on the waiting list.

1-0 Phillies with three to go. Good luck!

phillyfan55, Tree my buddy, you are heads and shoulders above your brother in more ways than one. You are quite the promoter.

I learned from the best and am only trying to enhace the excitement for the non-racers. I needed an excuse to get a lead role in the next DVD.

Thanx Grip, "great forum", man it's getting closer to mindless drivel than I'm really comfortable with. I should be easy to find on the lake bed, I'll have Dustin on my shoulders. It'll be a treat to meet you also.Theres about to be a change in the weather, stay tuned.

Hey pops no issue but take care and be careful with the little guy!!!!:laughing:

Hey pops just so you know I compete to win, everytime! Even if there isn't a snowballs chance in hell in my mind I am still competing to win, I'm not in it to sit around the campfire and sing coombayah. Winning isn't everything to everyone but in the back of everyones mind the thought is there, if they say otherwise I say bullshit.:flipoff2: That picture of Dave and Doug making out just shows how much weight a loveseat can hold.:eek:

Hey Mike thats messed up So I guess you and Dougy are going to be a match on the grudge racing on the 20th huh? Ill make sure we pull that race out of the hat:grinpimp::flipoff2:
Also call me biatch

Strictly hypothetical, but what if; Say one of the KOH multi-car teams, let's use team Torchmate as an example. Decided next year that the lowest starting poisition driver, we'll use Jesse as an example should be their best hope for a win. Now let's assume Brad and Roger also drew low numbers. Well they've decided to borrow a page from the Nascar playbook. They put their heads together and decide on a blocking manuver. Brad starts after Jesse, Roger's the last of the trio. Jesse and Brad get thru sledgehammer, Roger pitches his car sideways in the narrowest spot and shuts off the motor. Jesse drives thru wrecking ball, Brad throws his car sideways. You now have 2 trail tampons intentionally blocking holding back the field. Other than their own integrity, as all three are truly class acts, what's to keep this from happening. Whose to say it didn't happen last year, you don't even have to be a team to pull it off. Give me some opinions, hold nothing back, hell I don't even care if you call me names. You S.O.B.s get to typing, of course no offense meant to most of you.

They better HOPE Shannon's not behind them when they do so! :eek:


:laughing:

They better HOPE Shannon's not behind them when they do so! :eek:


:laughing:

That would only happen if Carter was in his way lol but you never know:flipoff2:

Hey pops just so you know I compete to win, everytime! Even if there isn't a snowballs chance in hell in my mind I am still competing to win, I'm not in it to sit around the campfire and sing coombayah. Winning isn't everything to everyone but in the back of everyones mind the thought is there, if they say otherwise I say bullshit.:flipoff2: That picture of Dave and Doug making out just shows how much weight a loveseat can hold.:eek:
Mike, my brother, right on target buddy, I'd call bullshit on anyone who isn't in it to win it, if I hadn't learned my lesson. That picture, man 3 lazyboys. Since Dave has declined to answer (I think he's taking a nap again), look at the picture again, what would you guesstimate his hulking mass to weigh? Any and all can enter this contest, winner gets free beer Friday and Saturday nite in Reno, courtesey of Jeff.

Easyspop...no offense...but you would make a horrible promoter as you can't stay focused on one topic for more than four posts. Did you take your last round of meds?

Easyspop...no offense...but you would make a horrible promoter as you can't stay focused on one topic for more than four posts. Did you take your last round of meds?

Probably not, but it is his Birthday today, so maybe he can get a muligan?




:laughing:

Mike, my brother, right on target buddy, I'd call bullshit on anyone who isn't in it to win it, if I hadn't learned my lesson. That picture, man 3 lazyboys. Since Dave has declined to answer (I think he's taking a nap again), look at the picture again, what would you guesstimate his hulking mass to weigh? Any and all can enter this contest, winner gets free beer Friday and Saturday nite in Reno, courtesey of Jeff.

We don't need any smart ass guesses, nothing over 500 pounds. He does have feelings, I think.

Easyspop...no offense...but you would make a horrible promoter as you can't stay focused on one topic for more than four posts. Did you take your last round of meds?

Tree, lifes more exciting when you live on the edge, I skip every third or fourth dose of my Lithium

Easyspop...no offense...but you would make a horrible promoter as you can't stay focused on one topic for more than four posts. Did you take your last round of meds?

4 is actually a record for me

They better HOPE Shannon's not behind them when they do so! :eek:


:laughing:

I should have added all the Torchmate cars had their Schrader valves properly positioned, no offense to Carter. Wait a damn minute, I've been offensive to everyone else, why not Carter? Because he has a broken Schrader Valve, and I feel sorry for him.

This is great

I should have added all the Torchmate cars had their Schrader valves properly positioned, no offense to Carter. Wait a damn minute, I've been offensive to everyone else, why not Carter? Because he has a broken Schrader Valve, and I feel sorry for him.

The guy is a great racer and he for sure is looking for the win at the big show. Pulled away at RCQ by seconds but did get it

372 is my guess for biggiehos boyfriend:flipoff2:


"NO OFFENSE"

Hey grip, I see you get assistance from Clayton. Theres a winner, man follow his lead. I shouldn't be asking, but I think all the finishing racers have left the building. Do you drive to win? It's official now, there are two classes of racer, winners and finishers. Winners want to win, finishers want to get in the winners way, and not mess their underwear. Which are you?

372 is my guess for biggiehos boyfriend:flipoff2:


"NO OFFENSE"

Mike, look at the picture again, the man has 2 legs

Hey grip, I see you get assistance from Clayton. Theres a winner, man follow his lead. I shouldn't be asking, but I think all the finishing racers have left the building. Do you drive to win? It's official now, there are two classes of racer, winners and finishers. Winners want to win, finishers want to get in the winners way, and not mess their underwear. Which are you?

He is a sponsor of my events here in NJ. But yes most def. Myself co-driver for Mike aka scrambler dnf RCQ due to clutch failure but looking to drive in my new moonbuggy for LCQ. But I definatley will look to win. Quitters never win and if you come in second your the first loser so....

Jason

Strictly hypothetical, but what if; Say one of the KOH multi-car teams, let's use team Torchmate as an example. Decided next year that the lowest starting poisition driver, we'll use Jesse as an example should be their best hope for a win. Now let's assume Brad and Roger also drew low numbers. Well they've decided to borrow a page from the Nascar playbook. They put their heads together and decide on a blocking manuver. Brad starts after Jesse, Roger's the last of the trio. Jesse and Brad get thru sledgehammer, Roger pitches his car sideways in the narrowest spot and shuts off the motor. Jesse drives thru wrecking ball, Brad throws his car sideways. You now have 2 trail tampons intentionally blocking holding back the field. Other than their own integrity, as all three are truly class acts, what's to keep this from happening. Whose to say it didn't happen last year, you don't even have to be a team to pull it off. Give me some opinions, hold nothing back, hell I don't even care if you call me names. You S.O.B.s get to typing, of course no offense meant to most of you.




Since you ask a very legit question here you go. A taste of the King James version of motorsports rules. Only as example as the rules of fair play concerning the KIng of the Hammers, Ultra4, and other Hammerking productions Inc events have not been officially adopted as of June 5th 2009.




6.1.6: Competitors may not intentionally choose to exit vehicle for any reason if, by stopping the vehicle and doing so, they will impede the flow of traffic, providing the vehicle is capable of moving under its own power at the time.


3.7: One red card will be presented to each entrant at registration. Each entrant may file one complaint to the CRB during the event by using a red card. Red cards are to be presented at the next available check point, or finish line if there are no remaining checkpoints prior to the finish line. Red card complaints may be made against competing entrants for the following infractions during the course of an event:

3.7.1: Vehicle leaving the course or short coursing.
3.7.2: Receiving outside assistance.
3.7.3: Refueling without an approved fuel mat or tarp acting as an impervious barrier.
3.7.4: Unsportsmanlike conduct.
3.7.5: Excessive or abusive nerfing or bumping.



3.4.4: Any entrant vehicle that is unable to continue, whether or not it has been righted with or without outside assistance, and that as a result of being disabled poses, in the opinion of the officials, an impediment to traffic flow, may be relocated on, or removed from, the course by means of official recovery crews or other outside assistance only to the point that they no longer pose an impediment to traffic flow. Once so relocated or removed, competitors may attempt to repair vehicle and continue, but may not receive any outside assistance in doing so.


8.16: Any refusal by a competitor to comply with CRB rulings shall result in competitor’s disqualification and suspension of competitor from all Hammerking Productions Inc. sponsored events for a period of not less than one year.



AUTOMATIC DISQUALIFICATION: Disqualification assigned immediately to an entrant, whether or not they have completed the event, by the Executive Director, Event Director, or Race Director, at the discretion of Hammerking Productions Inc. for certain grievous infractions. Entrants suffering automatic disqualification shall be so informed by the Executive Director, Event Director, or Race Director and, when so informed, must immediately leave the course by the safest and most expeditious means possible without interfering with any other entrants still in competition. Failure to comply shall result in fines and/or suspension.



DISQUALIFICATION: The state of being disqualified. An official event result assigned to entrants for certain violations of the rules. Disqualification results in the entrant being ineligible for any points, purse, prize or contingency related to the event in which they are disqualified. Entrants who are disqualified receive no finishing time, score, or placement for the event in which they are disqualified. Disqualification may be decided post-event by the CRB, or, for certain grievous infractions, may be assigned immediately and automatically to an entrant by the Executive Director, Event Director, or Race Director, at the discretion of Hammerking Productions Inc. The latter case is known as automatic disqualification.

RED CARD: A ticket, token, card or other device provided to each driver before the event which they may use to report a violation of the rules that they witness or to file a grievance with the Directors or CRB.


UNSPORTSMANLIKE CONDUCT: Conduct incompatible with internationally accepted general principles of fair play and sportsmanship, as judged by Hammerking Productions Inc.



Sorry, I'm not going to allow this to turn into 21 questions about the KOH rules, thats the only example I'm going to give at this time. The rules should be avalible via web down load on our site by mid June. I hope to have printed versions avalible for purchase as well.

I only posted to prove that I have been actually writing rules for the last 3 months.:flipoff2:

Bigwoodywag, please don't think I was ignoring you. Glory, what about glory. Glory is that rare commodity reserved for winners. Finishers, they will never bask in that warm glow, but they will have clean underwear, if they don't go too fast and scare themselves.

Good deal Jeff for the so far updated rules

Good deal Jeff for the so far updated rules


Thanks, now I just have to remember how to find any given rule buried in 30 pages of fine print. I don't do anything half way. People said we needed rules, and Dave smiled and unleashed the two wordiest guys he knows on it.

If KOH is gonna have rules we went for the win in the baffle them with Bullshit contest. All or nothing after all?:homer:

This years seminar will include a bible eerrrr Rule study group around the campfire. Guitar, and song book optional.:smokin: Hosted by BillaVista.:D

Who wants Koolaid?

Thanks, now I just have to remember how to find any given rule buried in 30 pages of fine print. I don't do anything half way. People said we needed rules, and Dave smiled and unleashed the two wordiest guys he knows on it.

If KOH is gonna have rules we went for the win in the baffle them with Bullshit contest. All or nothing after all?:homer:

This years seminar will include a bible eerrrr Rule study group around the campfire. Guitar, and song book optional.:smokin: Hosted by BillaVista.:D

Who wants Koolaid?

Well I guess thats part of being a promoter huh?:D

Jeff, is there an insinuation my previous questions weren't "legit", I'm deeply offended. I pose questions after careful deliberation, soul searching and a double shot of Quervo gold.But my God man you have a talent for rule interpretation, I'll give you that. I'd also like to thank you for sponsoring our "guess Daves weight contest", your'e a prince among men.

Who wants Koolaid?

Koolaid sounds good but I think Apple Pie would be so much better:flipoff2:

I am going to guess 352.5

Hi.

cm "my 2 cents" k

Man of few words, now I wish I had that debilitating character flaw.

Hey grip, I see you get assistance from Clayton. Theres a winner, man follow his lead. I shouldn't be asking, but I think all the finishing racers have left the building. Do you drive to win? It's official now, there are two classes of racer, winners and finishers. Winners want to win, finishers want to get in the winners way, and not mess their underwear. Which are you?

you're a bit of a post whore... but I like you! :laughing:


BTW... I'm married to Mustard Dog.. Easy's #1 Fan!! ;)

Isn't there a gay porn site ya'll need to get back to?? Holy chit, this thread is more off track than Dave Cole will be in V2R.:flipoff2:

:unsubscribe:

BTW, it is nice to see the East Coast guys getting in on the smack-talking. If nothing else, KOH has brought wheelers together around the world in a common interest. :peace:

Jeff, is there an insinuation my previous questions weren't "legit", I'm deeply offended. I pose questions after careful deliberation, soul searching and a double shot of Quervo gold.But my God man you have a talent for rule interpretation, I'll give you that. I'd also like to thank you for sponsoring our "guess Daves weight contest", your'e a prince among men.


No offense dude.

Koolaid sounds good but I think Apple Pie would be so much better:flipoff2:

I am going to guess 352.5

Try again his shadow goes that much.

you're a bit of a post whore... but I like you! :laughing:


BTW... I'm married to Mustard Dog.. Easy's #1 Fan!! ;)

"post whore" I admited that 4 or 5 pages back. But thanks for your admiration, I feel like my real life has ended and my Pirate life has begun, I can't quit typing. Everyone values my opinions and insight so much, I feel I'll be betraying everyone that hangs on my every word if I quit typing. Btw, haven't heard from your hubby since page 1, where is the world famous MD. In all earnest, I need to meet the man.

No offense dude.

Thanks for the apology.

Btw, haven't heard from your hubby since page 1, where is the world famous MD. In all earnest, I need to meet the man.

He's been up in Berkley, Ca this whole past week working on a clients boat. Looks like he's needed up there a bit longer than expected. The job pays well, but its definately cutting into his PBB time :laughing:

Glory is that rare commodity reserved for winners. Finishers, they will never bask in that warm glow...
Bullshit. I won't argue that winning isn't the best, and most glorious, but glory and pride do indeed go with finishing. The driver that's broken and out of contention, and gives up a wheel/tire/etc. to a driver still capable of finishing -- there's glory in that, too... and beer and respect at the campfires afterwards.

Maybe we're splitting hairs on the difference between glory, satisfaction, and respect? Scherer beat 'em all in 2009, but Campbell knocked out a rocking E.T. after his D.Q., and Slawson elected to D.Q. himself due to events. Those are just three of many stories, and there can only be one King, and one left standing on the podium, but there's clearly glory in making the cut to attend, finishing the race, and even in a D.Q.

Props to Jeff and Dave for creating a competition littered with so many stories of honor, glory, and respect...

Randii

Try again his shadow goes that much.

ok how about 375.5 minus his left leg:flipoff2:

Isn't there a gay porn site ya'll need to get back to?? Holy chit, this thread is more off track than Dave Cole will be in V2R.:flipoff2:

:unsubscribe:

BTW, it is nice to see the East Coast guys getting in on the smack-talking. If nothing else, KOH has brought wheelers together around the world in a common interest. :peace:

It is about time that some more east coast guys get in on it. Everyone forgets about the right coast. I do have to say POPS has it going on the south west side