Comp guys and vets, your opinion would be appreciated.

Would a Toy axled, Toy drivetrain still be competitive in WERock Pro-Mod or XRRA/KOH ? I know Dave's rig did very well but i'm not sure what axles he ran. Any others? Plus the fact that current Pro-Mod courses are tough and the cars still get hammered (at least they do out East). What would be the weak links? R&P's? Toy knuckles getting sheared off on those "lawndart" drops, big air in XRRA stuff? Obviously suspension changes would need to be made as the leafs would probably limit the rig's capability on the tougher courses. I know from my recent experimentation that adequate power can be had from a 22re by slapping one of Gotpropane's turbo kits on.

I have a rig in mid/late build that started life as an Ftoy chassis and currently sits on 60s with a 4.3 but I keep looking at the massive stockpile of Toy parts that I have plus the deviation from my Toy roots just doesn't feel right.

Thoughts?

hell yeah toy stuff:D
i think it would be cool, but who iam i to say i break truck loads of stuff in the ftoy:shaking:

I'm sure Dave will find this and give you some more, but I know that he started out with Diamond Toy axles with Tundra 8.4 thirds. I can't recall any details of axle breakage, but I do remember he broke a few front tcase outputs. I think the reason he changed the axles was to get more steering angle, but I seem to remember him saying that the extra angle didn't make that much difference.

Thought about it long and hard about modifying #32 for promod by cutting it up and adding links etc...sold the ftoy

The toy parts won't live a happy life IMO.

JRTs rig history for season one

round 1
- diamonds, 8.4 chunks welded 3.54 gears
- multiple rear outputs, stock rear axle

round 2
- upgraded to 5.29s with bobbys fairy dust/detroits
- rear long output

round 3
- rear arb

once he went to 5.29s and bobby output he didnt break the rest of the season. stock knuckles, marlin arms, FROR ARP studs. front digs, reverse full lock front digs and water in the tires. he had issues with the motor but im sure that had to do with the pan. i believe he had a steering issue after the season was over but that car had a lot of comp and trail time on it, includign the world championship.

the next year he made some mods to take advantage of the steering and frame changes in werock and some suspension mods. other than swapping out the longs at the beginning of the season i dont believe he did anything.

last year he went to 609s for steering, added easy button, more mods to lower car, improve suspension geometry and move the drivetrain a bit. got brave with water to the top of the rim. then the front outputs started breaking. dialed it back to mid to bottom of the rim life was better.

an ftoy needs links, tcase disconnect, cutting brakes, rear arb to make the jump to promod. the axles can hang without a problem with an after market housing, deep gears, and smart driving.

an ftoy styled rig can hang on the west coast, but i dont think it can on the east coast. too much wheelspeed needed. daves rig was extremely out of place at nationals being the muddy mess that it was.

an ftoy styled rig can hang on the west coast, but i dont think it can on the east coast. too much wheelspeed needed.


Amen to that. ftoys love the dry rocky conditions but throw in slop and it gets tough. Fun but still tough...

Thanks for the input.

I was actualy thinking of 4.56s and hoping the additional teeth on the pinion would help eliminate breakage but that does put more stress on the outputs so...

In the process of building a 60/Toy hybrid axle for better steering angle and stronger knuckles regardless if I decide to go Toyota on this rig or not.

I have looked over Mike Hale's "legends" era car a few times. I know he in notorious for breaking and fixing to finish the show but I'm not sure if he has one particular weakness? I think his car is heavier than what I would build but not sure on that either.

One motivating factor is $$ and time to finish my rig. If I go Toy I can get it done in much less time and not spend nearly as much money. I'm thinking go the Toy route and see what breaks. If I need to swap to beefier axles later then do so.

Mike keeps breaking dana 300s.

I really don't think 3rds would hold up. Think about toy axles in bonus land? Not a good thought. But someone who's willing to take it easy would have a chance to get by and finish, but I don' t think they could win doing that on the east coast. Not being trying to be mean john just my thoughts.

I really don't think 3rds would hold up. Think about toy axles in bonus land? Not a good thought. But someone who's willing to take it easy would have a chance to get by and finish, but I don' t think they could win doing that on the east coast. Not being trying to be mean john just my thoughts.

No offense taken at all. This is why I asked the question here to get honest responses without the flames.

I agree it would be tough to keep together but wouldn't it be cool to beat 1/2 the field with an all Toy rig!! I think 1st year in PM regardless of the rig is going to be a huge learning experience anyway so podiums are going to be difficult. I would be stoked to just make any shootout!! BTW- I was thinking 8.4 3rds.

I will add that I have a Spider9 housing to build a front axle and a Rockcrusher 60 center for a rear axle but filling those will take time and $$$. With the Toy stuff I can get it going, sort out and learn the rig, wheel, compete if I want to and save $$ for beefy parts for the Spider9 and RC60.

Mike keeps breaking dana 300s.

Why?

Why?

I have a 300 and it holds up to a lot of abuse. But I have seen the cases break. I did have to upgrade the front output to 32spline after a fun weekend!

I have a fully built d300. It has all the JB Conversions Lomax parts with all 32 spline stuff. What tarnsmission is your 300 behind?

I dunno why he keeps breaking them but I think he has broke about 5. Im not sure where he is breaking them but I know he broke a case last week.

Been toying with the idea of an ax15 with r150 input and bell mated to my built d300 then eventually a Stak 3 spd.........This would give me digs without the disco and room to more easily grow into the Stak.

If you buy the correct parts and install them(or have them installed) correctly you will get years of comp use out of them with out failure. plain and simple.

KOH, XRRA, RRock, or WErock the toyota drive train behind a built 4cyl or a mild v6 will do great. of course tire size makes a difference and sure everyone knows someone that cant keep their toy stuff together under their mega heavy exo cage 4runner on 42's. Anything can break if not used correctly.

Dont be afraid to use the toyota drive train, just do your research and buy the upgrades that are needed for what you are doing with the rig.

If you buy the correct parts and install them(or have them installed) correctly you will get years of comp use out of them with out failure. plain and simple.

KOH, XRRA, RRock, or WErock the toyota drive train behind a built 4cyl or a mild v6 will do great. of course tire size makes a difference and sure everyone knows someone that cant keep their toy stuff together under their mega heavy exo cage 4runner on 42's. Anything can break if not used correctly.

Dont be afraid to use the toyota drive train, just do your research and buy the upgrades that are needed for what you are doing with the rig.


:laughing:

You do know half the people in this thread have already been competing with toy drivetrain.

After all the f toy parts broken at last weekends Werock event in Reno, I'll have to still say no don't do it... save your $.

As much as I love toyota stuff, it has it limits.

I would not hesitate to run the orginal incarnation of my car.

Low CG
Low weight - 2600 max
30 Splines
Bobby Output
8.4 5.29 chunks
stock rear axles
ARB rear
Detroit - with the special love in the front
Trail Tough Disco
37" Stickies
half a tire of water

Peel out

the problem with an Ftoy chassis in pro mod is the length.

You need to be as tight as possible.

I miss the old car a whole bunch.

The problem with Reno and breakage was not remotely limited to ftoys. EVERYONE was breaking. The courses were obscenely tight and the crete was sticky. I firmly believe that we didn't break because we didn't run any water.

That and we conciously chose not to break because we brought no spares, tools, or energy to fix it :flipoff2:

Thanks for the input Dave, I was hoping you would reply.

I made some slight "changes" to the Ftoy chassis that I'm using for the base of my current build but I have already decided it is to big and heavy for the all Toy drivetrain (too much 1.75" tubing and slightly overbuilt). It will be better suited for XRRA or KOH type stuff and has plenty of room for a spare tire, tools, and other spares. I am continuing to go with my 4.3 and D60s.

We were lucky enough to get in on a cro-mo tube purchase last year that left me with plenty of 1.5" tubing on the material rack. As soon as I complete this current car we will finish my nephews cro-mo tubed rear engine rig already in progress then next a rig specifically intended to run the lightweight Toy drivetrain. That will give me plenty of time to accumulate all the needed parts. At my current rate of progress I could complete the all Toy car to be ready for the 2012 season !:D

:laughing:

You do know half the people in this thread have already been competing with toy drivetrain.

After all the f toy parts broken at last weekends Werock event in Reno, I'll have to still say no don't do it... save your $.

As much as I love toyota stuff, it has it limits.

Everything has its limits it just how many times do you reach them.
In comp anything can and will break,as we all have seen.

I am just saying that even the best built rigs will fail no matter what the drive train brand they run. The toyota drivetrain just seems to last a bit longer between breakage and is easy to get parts for when it does happen.
bottom line is that toyota drive train is competitve.