I got my front axle welded out as mentioned in the "Weekend Plans" thread. Spent some of the weekend bolting it back in and starting some mock up of the rest of the pile of parts I've got for it. It didn't take long to find a problem. When I ordered the histeer stuff, Jeff asked if I had leaf springs. I told him yes, and he said I would need such-and-such to clear (super arms maybe?) that have build in spacers. Well, I need more clearance than that. I'm surprised, too, because my perches don't seem tall to me. I'm going to call Jeff tomorrow so he can see the problem. In the meantime, Is there any solution to this other than a different arm, spacer, or going linked?


http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/84/l_9f0a5348f7e043e5bf3792bf9eacad59.jpg

http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/69/l_44585a29dfd145919b3deaec4987370b.jpg

http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/67/l_e71d70e95ef548b4b7417f56871b90e0.jpg

http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/88/l_0d72f4e9c59e4f81a7cea67577e850e9.jpg

are your knuckles welded where they need to be? they appear to be pointed down, if they still need to be adjusted that might get you some clearance, it may req you to lose some pinion angle. maybe a rev shackle could gain some too. looks like the cast knuckles are too short to use w/o problems. if possible, just get taller arms if everything else is cool.

Yes C's are welded with about 5* of caster. The knuckle is turned a little in the pic, that's probably why it looks off. Looking at IHonlynorth's website, I found some 1/2" spacers that I guess should fix me up. I should probably just go to sleep and worry about it in the morning.

Had the same problem (also using Super Arms). Had to order the longer studs and 1" spacers to put under the arms. They also have 1/2" spacers if you think that will clear.

When I did mine years ago I needed a 1" spacer for my regular arms. If I had the tie rod up high I'm not sure they would clear even with the 1" spacer, I'd probably need the super armas and the spacer.

I'd cut a decent "V" out in the steering arm (Maybe 30 degrees) and bend it up 5 - 10 degrees until it clears. Then fill the rest in by welding it. Add an outside gusset and never look back. Why spend more money when you don't need to?

Yes C's are welded with about 5* of caster. The knuckle is turned a little in the pic, that's probably why it looks off. Looking at IHonlynorth's website, I found some 1/2" spacers that I guess should fix me up. I should probably just go to sleep and worry about it in the morning.

Bummer!! Your spring perch's look nice and low too.
Wonder if a few more degrees caster would have allowed them to clear?

I like the oil pan mod:smokin:

Take a leaf or two out on the bottom of the spring pack to gain some clearance and ride. it will lower the front a lil but its a free test.

I'd cut a decent "V" out in the steering arm (Maybe 30 degrees) and bend it up 5 - 10 degrees until it clears. Then fill the rest in by welding it. Add an outside gusset and never look back. Why spend more money when you don't need to?

Don't know what you have been smoking but you are going to mess with the length of the steering arms as well as the alignment of the TRE's. This is your steering that you are talking about. Just go out and buy the spacers and the longer studs. You will be much better off in the long run.

You can put 1/2" spacers with out changing the studs. If you go with the 1" spacers the studs will need to be swapped. PartsMike recently came out with a new forged arm that sits 2" higher. I haven't tried them on a Scout yet but looking at them they should work much better than the Super arms that we have been selling.

http://www.shopih.com/PM-D44-6-PR-p-OS.html
________
Abbie live (http://camslivesexy.com/cam/Abbie)

Take a leaf or two out on the bottom of the spring pack to gain some clearance and ride. it will lower the front a lil but its a free test.

it doesnt even look like he has the full weight of the scout on the leafs !
There's a jackstand under the frame on pass side...:homer:

Yes C's are welded with about 5* of caster. The knuckle is turned a little in the pic, that's probably why it looks off. Looking at IHonlynorth's website, I found some 1/2" spacers that I guess should fix me up. I should probably just go to sleep and worry about it in the morning.

Check with the axle at full droop before you order the spacer - at full droop the springs should arch a bit more and will get into the tie-rod even more.

Then, turn full right and full left and check the high-steer tie-rod clearance to the front of the oil pan - and add in your draglink before you finish that test.

It's not uncommon for one or both of those bars to smack the oil pan at full bump once you go high-steer.

The powder coat is scraped off the front of the pan on my racer with just a high draglink. The tie-rod is still down low.

I also had to use a 1" spacer.

Check with the axle at full droop before you order the spacer - at full droop the springs should arch a bit more and will get into the tie-rod even more.

Then, turn full right and full left and check the high-steer tie-rod clearance to the front of the oil pan - and add in your draglink before you finish that test.

It's not uncommon for one or both of those bars to smack the oil pan at full bump once you go high-steer.

The powder coat is scraped off the front of the pan on my racer with just a high draglink. The tie-rod is still down low.

I also had to use a 1" spacer.

Other than adding tires it's at full droop now.
http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/84/l_9f0a5348f7e043e5bf3792bf9eacad59.jpg



The different pics show wheels turned. I would get the longer studs and 1" spacer just to be sure, and dent the oil pan as needed:eek: I'm sure Jeff will hook you up with the right stuff:smokin:

Ok, I have a question. How is he going find the full bump with it sitting like it is? One option would be to remove all the leafs but the main and add a spacer to make up the difference of the missing leafs. ( sounds like a lot of work) anybody got another idea.

Ok, I have a question. How is he going find the full bump with it sitting like it is? One option would be to remove all the leafs but the main and add a spacer to make up the difference of the missing leafs. ( sounds like a lot of work) anybody got another idea.

He doesn't find it. He builds it to clear the springs as it sits. Then bump stops it as needed once he gets it moving....

Other than adding tires it's at full droop now.


Sort of. I determine "full droop" as about the point when the shackle is in line with the spring. Adding the tire weight will help, but that doesn't take into account the rebound force when you suddenly go from full stuff to full droop and the tire is *accelerating* away from the frame.


Ok, I have a question. How is he going find the full bump with it sitting like it is? One option would be to remove all the leafs but the main and add a spacer to make up the difference of the missing leafs. ( sounds like a lot of work) anybody got another idea.

Pulling all but the main leaf is the right way to do it.

My way is to throw a come-along onto the cage or engine or shock mount, and the other end around the axle and crank it down until I'm hard against the bump stop (sometimes d*mn scary) - then add a little room for fudge.

I then shove the porta-power (or a small floor jack or Hi-Lift) between the axle and frame and jack it until the shackle is about in line with the spring - it won't droop much/at all beyond that under any condition (except broken).

Those two extremes are important, along with the "normal" compressed/drooped/ride height positions. You might decide that at full-bump a little rub is OK, or maybe like me you'll find your draglink bent one day because the spring got the better of it, or that your draglink cut the lower radiator hose because lowering the rad an inch or two to clear the cage puts the lower rad hose up against the draglink at full bump under some circumstances. Or that you've violently removed a shock mount because you mis-judged what full-droop or full-bump is under all circumstances... blah blah blah.

This is the part where I get the bit about "But I'm not going to jump my Scout, Tom, I'm not racing" where I then reply "Yeah, but you're going to drop off a ledge or waterfall at some point, right? Or come down hard on one front tire off-camber and feel the whole Scout hunker down into that one corner. Or hit a snow-drift faster than you thought and find it's harder than you thought and you're sailing through the air.." BTDT on trail rides, along with the times I've been on a regular trail ride and we've purposefully jumped something (I crawled over a fallen tree across the trail, but my buddy didn't want to risk his Bronco's lower-than-the-frame-rail t'case getting broken off, so he opted to just clear it on the first try - he was rewarded by keeping his t'case intact, but punched the gas tank on the landing instead, thanks to a rock between the skid plate and fuel tank)

Tom your right, he is not a full droop as the shackle has a bit more swing to go.

Ugly, he can eyeball it to see if the oil pan is going to be close or not. Since it's Forward Shackle the axle will move forward bit anyways under full stuff.

I don't think I have any air shots:D

Tom your right, he is not a full droop as the shackle has a bit more swing to go.

Ugly, he can eyeball it to see if the oil pan is going to be close or not. Since it's Forward Shackle the axle will move forward bit anyways under full stuff.

I don't think I have any air shots:D

The other thing to keep in mind if you're not going for "max droop / max bump" but opt for "well, when I took the jack away, this is how far it drooped" - at the moment, things might still be relatively "new" or in good shape, but a few years of abuse will loosen up even already-worn stock springs even more - or the shock that was a limiting strap will finally let go.

Here's my oil pan after a few years.

http://www.tmcom.com/~tsm1/gallery2/d/3917-3/DCP_0006_006.jpg

I forgot I had a better way of measuring full bump.

Wrap a chain around the frame and UNDER your floor jack, then jack.

http://www.tmcom.com/~tsm1/gallery2/d/2091-2/dcp_0010_006.jpg
http://www.tmcom.com/~tsm1/gallery2/d/2094-2/dcp_0011_005.jpg

And on the rear at another time.

http://www.tmcom.com/~tsm1/gallery2/d/3291-2/dcp_0020.jpg

This way you're using the floor jack to lift, the chain to hold the frame down, so you're jacking the axle up while holding the frame down with the floor jack.

Much better than, say, cranking on the come-along like I did years ago..

http://www.tmcom.com/~tsm1/scout/jpg/racer/reverse_shackle/31_1.jpg

just have them bent up a little. no big deal.

just have them bent up a little. no big deal.

Easier said than done.... IIRC, they're about 1.5" thick cold rolled steel. Besides, it was already pointed out earlier why bending them would be a stupid idea. It would be metric shit-tons easier to just put the studs and spacers on.

Don't know what you have been smoking but you are going to mess with the length of the steering arms as well as the alignment of the TRE's. This is your steering that you are talking about. Just go out and buy the spacers and the longer studs. You will be much better off in the long run.

It's pussies like you that are ruining this site... It used to be that this site, especially the IH section, was about building your own shit. Now it's "what can I bolt on next?". :rainbow:

I just measured my d44 steering arm. There is approx 3.25" of material that can be bent up (Leaving room bolt area to remain flat). I used 3" to be safe. To obtain 0.5" of height, the 3" shortens to 2.95"...yeah, huge steering arm length change:shaking:. This is a 9.6 degree bend. A 1" height change equals a new length of 2.83" and almost 20 degrees.

Regarding your TRE alignment, the TRE's for the tierod need very little misalignment and can easily handle the change.

Don't know what you have been smoking but you are going to mess with the length of the steering arms as well as the alignment of the TRE's. This is your steering that you are talking about. Just go out and buy the spacers and the longer studs. You will be much better off in the long run.

I guess if the Ackerman was ever right on a stock Scout, or that the new arms fixed the Ackerman angle, maybe it would matter.. but it was never right, and probably isn't right with new arms, either. :D

It doesn't need to be as complicated as some are making it. A couple things to add....If the tie rod rubs the spring who cares as long as it doesn't bind? Adding more spacers between the arm and the knuckle makes the knuckle even more likely to break. I would keep it down as low as you possibly could....It looks in the picture like you may have negative caster. Have you measured it with the weight of the scout sitting on the springs?

Easier said than done.... IIRC, they're about 1.5" thick cold rolled steel. Besides, it was already pointed out earlier why bending them would be a stupid idea. It would be metric shit-tons easier to just put the studs and spacers on.



i had mine bent at a local shop on a big ass press for $20 and they were fine.

I would sell those and buy new arms with the additional height ("spacers") built in. There are a few vendors selling them. Also realize that the more leafs in the pack the taller the spacer you need.

Ben I don't know if this will help but I was looking at some pictures of Leona's Scout after I looked at your thread. I bought the 1/2 spacers and did not use them, for some reason the tubing cleared springs with out issues.These are pictures I have on my computer.

I bet his ends are thinner/shorter in height than yours, but he didnt want that option to change at the moment.