Hi All,
After some very informative searches and good back channel discussion, I've been pointed towards the Isuzu 4BD-1T instead of a Cummins 4BT which I had planned. I have a couple of questions:

Here's what I know:
Its approx output from earlier manny tranny models is about 125hp & about 250-300 ft/lbs.
It has a GM bolt pattern so it can be used with GM trannies.
It fits in a Cruiser, 40, 60, 80.
It is not too heavy.
It's quieter than a Cummins.
Before 1995 it is completely mechanical.

Here's what I would like to know:
Anyone have the actual output figures (hp & torque or their metric versions)?
Does anyone know *what GM bolt pattern it has, and if there is a bellhousing available to mate it to a NV4500?
Actual weight of the engine?
Noise, is it loud?
RPM Range & Red Line? (just added)

And any other opinions or information?
Looking forward to any available information 'cause there's very little information about this engine on the web (that I've found....)

sweet! i have been looking into this engine casually for a while and has always been turned off by the fact that i might have to make/have made an adapter for the engine. now that i know that it has a chevy BP, well thats pretty fawkin cool!

as far as noise goes, they are pretty damn quiet. next time you are sitting next to an NPR truck in traffic, crank down yer window and see for yourself. they sound neat too, alot like a smaller 4cyl diesel.

something to look into for sure! thanks!

Check your e-mail ..............I sent you a bunch of Info I have collected on NPRs.
There is a guy in the Bay area running one in a FJ40.
It would be nice to pick his brain.

I'll let you sort through it and post some of the facts you find interesting.

C-ya

ken

By the way..... I got a car hauler I share with a guy, lets head for Kansas!!
Or I have a U-haul tow bar setup you cam use if you want to drag it with your Saab:eek: :eek: :eek:

damn i have one of those npr trucks right now that i was fixing to dump. hell i never thought about using the motor tranny in a rig. they are way quiter than a cummins and much smoother too.

http://www.arsco.com/

Used 4bd1-t in stock

I'm thinking of doing an Isuzu swap into an 80 series. I've been looking at options. It seems like it should work. One of their new NPR trucks comes with Aisan 450 tranny. I've been trying to find out if this is similiar enough to the 80 series 440 tranny to do a direct swap without adapters. Anyone know or have ideas?

OK, I think I'm able to answer most of my own questions mostly through Bennett who's kept a record of discussion related to the 4BD1T (NPR box truck engine) over the years. I'm going to post some of it, a good amount from Morgan Fletcher from sometime in 1999. I sorted through most of it and cut a lot of non-relevant or repetitive information out, also things I've added are in red; here's what I have:


o The 4BDT is AKA the QD100 - same motor, sometimes w/o turbo, used in non-vehicular applications. It's in Isuzu and GMC cab-forward trucks and vans. (Avoid industrial applications in automobiles, they have different output specs, fuel pump settings, and are not designed for on road use)
The 4BDT will require an overdrive, 1:1 high gear won't cut it.This is because the red/line peak RPMs are in the 2500-3000 range. Though the peak HP is 3000 RPMs, you will probably never want to take it about 2500 rpms.
Isuzu makes a flywheel and bellhousing to mate the 4BDT to a GM transmission. Not true, Isuzu makes an adapter that allows SAE #3 bellhousings to be used, therefore you can use GM trannies. However, the Isuzu part is now discontinued (as is the 4BD1T, it's now been replaced with the 4BD2T (higher output, electronically controlled).
Best solution is to go to an "anular" (sp?) T-O bearing that doesn't use a clutch fork, as there isn't room for clutch cylinder & starter on the left side. Found in Jeeps and Peugeots.
4BDT features integral, gear-driven PS and vacuum pumps. You might also want to check out this electric device (http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1764127504&rd=1) for producing vaccuum.
4BDT / transmission junction needs to be more forward than SBC or 2F. That plus need for overdrive make the NV4500 a natural pick.
4BDT is 12V.

In regards to a 4BD1T conversation, Morgan Fletcher spoke to a guy in California (530 area code, probably somewhere in the north east near Tahoe?), who installed the 4BD1T into his FJ40.

I spoke with the gentleman's wife last night on the phone but wasn't able to speak to him. He still has it, it supposedly runs great, some 12 years later including numerous Rubicon trips.
Quoted from Morgan in 1999?:

"He says it's a great motor, gobs of torque, starts easily, 23mpg, does 70mph comfortably, (He uses SM420 + Ranger OD.) and is very reliable. Only nit is that it doesn't generate enough heat for the cab. He's done four rubicons over five years with it, logged 50K miles. Thanks Jim Brantley for the referral! morgan, stalking the 4BDT -"

Bill Would look at what Cummins did to put the NV4500 behind the turbo-diesel. (This would be a NV4500HD (heavy duty version of the NV4500). You'd want the non-Chevy NV4500, like out of a dodge pickup.
He has a 4BDT, custom aluminum bellhousing ranger overdrive, SM420, 3spd tcase. The bellhousing was made by a company that is now out of business. He got it from Ben's Truck Repair. Says there's a guy down in the Bay Area named "Dave" that has one of the bellhousings, and the guys at Ben's sold their last one to someone else in the Bay Area that was not Dave.
He runs 33" tires.
Governor and fuel injection pump are differences between automotive and agricultural/marine/generator versions.
Filtration is _very_ important on the fuel line. He uses a racor filter and then two cheap filters after that. (Filtration is very important in all diesels, if anyone is interested in Racor filters I have a lead on VERY cheap Racor filters/seperators (one unit that does both), email me back channel)
Fuel injection pump is often sending fuel back to the tank, so it circulates fuel through the tank, thus breaking free the crap in the tank. See filtration.
Need to use the return line for a diesel.
Isuzu has an integral power steering pump.
His 40 has had the isuzu motor for 10 years.
There is a Cummins 4BDT and an Isuzu 4BD1. He thinks they may share a bolt-pattern and the Cummins NV4500 bellhousing may work on the Isuzu.
After I first spoke with him, I got frustrated calling local wreckers and isuzu shops. I couldn't find an engine, and most shops weren't interested in talking to me about isuzu/chevy bellhousings, rebuild costs, etc. Same here. But I did get Some information, see below.

Morgan Writes: "Here are some messages I got from Jim Littleton about the swap, two years ago:

From: JLittle960@aol.com <mailto:JLittle960@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 18:47:17 EDT
Subject: Isuzu 4BD1
To: morgan@off-road.com <mailto:morgan@off-road.com>

Morgan,

I have said motor and in the process of machining a bellhousing to adapt a SM465. Talked to Rob Mullen about factory adaptors. He said get a flywheel housing with an SAE #3 bolt pattern. No problem, ordered one, arrived, but about six inches long. The combination of that flywheel housing with a standard GM bellhousing adds up to about 12". If you, or the gentleman you talked to with the conversion, have the part #'s please email me.

Thanks,
Jim Littleton
JLittle960@aol.com <mailto:JLittle960@aol.com>
TLCA Member #4704

Morgan Writes again: Here's another one from Jim:

From: JLittle960@aol.com <mailto:JLittle960@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Isuzu 4BDT]
To: morgan@hahaha.org <mailto:morgan@hahaha.org>
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 23:54:01 EDT

In a message dated 10/8/99 2:54:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
morgan@hahaha.org <mailto:morgan@hahaha.org> writes:

<< Jim, is the 4BD1 the version w/o a turbo? Where/how did you get it? How much was it?>>

Yes with turbo.

<< I'll call Bill up and ask him for the number, and also if he minds
either of you guys calling him.>>

<<Yesterday I made four calls to places in the SF bay area and found two motors. One recently sold for $2500 as-is, and the other guy is going to give me a call when the truck is sold to him by the insurance company. I also talked to a repair shop in SF specializing in Isuzu commercial trucks, and this guy tried to warn me off the project, saying it wasn't economically advisable. He told me the rebuild kit for the motor runs "$330 a hole.">>

T 4BD1s with approx. 225K as is about $3K. I was quoted about $500 for bearings and liners for all four cyl. The shop manual was about $125 though.

<<Bill also gave me a number for Ben's Truck Repair in Red Bluff, CA, where he bought the Isuzu<->GM flywheel and bellhousing. He said they've put a couple of these motors in GM pickups. I'll call them today. morgan>>

Please let me know asap as the machining costs for the bellhousing and having the Isuzu flywheel machined and drilled for GM parts will probably cost more than buying these parts. They are at the machinist now and he is waiting for the pressure plate and my go ahead.

Jim
Jlittle960@aol.com <mailto:Jlittle960@aol.com>

Isuzu makes a 175hp 4 cyl for the NPR truck series. These are strong motors
and the parts are fairly cheap. I see a lot of these trucks rolled or
otherwise destroyed by renters who don't know how to drive. Might be a
affordable option. I think they are 4 valve computer controlled. The older
engines are 135hp with mech injection. Kind of slow in a 13K truck.

End QUOTE from Morgan --- Here's another message from an unknown source.

I've owned half a dozen Isuzu's in the past. The NPR's are OK if you get the 175HP engine. When empty, they will surprise you with their quickness. Loaded not so good. I used to get around 13 mpg average.

The FSR's are WAY better but pricey. The last one I bought was right at 45K with a 20' box and liftgate. They have a 6 cylinder diesel very similar to the Cummins in every dimension. It got about 11 mpg. I would get the bigger truck again because of the extra-cab and incedible width. I could seat 4 across in that beast. Air brakes helped stop it. When I sold it, it had 300K miles with no problems.

End QUOTE

And here is some information from British & Australian Rover guys:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----

Turbo Diesel Conversions

Isuzu 4BDIT 3.9L Turbo Diesel Conversion

The Isuzu 4BDIT motor is used to power the 6 tonne gross mass 6X6 Land Rovers at respectable speeds. in your Range Rover, at around 2 tonnes, performance is shattering.

The big four cylinder diesel hits a maximum output of 81kW (110hp) at a modest 3000rpm. Maximum torque of 315Nm is at an incredibly low 1800rpm. All this translates into a 100km cruising speed at a ridiculously low 2000rpm.

Once mobile, the 4BDIT diesel is at quiet, smooth and responsive as a petrol engine with the benefits of greater fuel efficiency and reliability, and the pulling power of a truck.

On road, handling is unaffected by the extra weight off the diesel due to the addition of longer, stiffer front springs. Off road, the big four cylinder diesel is unbeatable. Dropped into low range, its tractive effort is more than ample to climb anything your tyres can bite. The conversion comes with a full 12 month/20,000km warranty when a new factory engine is installed.

This is another conversation:
Charlie,

I'm looking for a thread that discussed how easy it was to put an engine out of a US medium duty truck like the Isuzu/Mitsubishi cab forward trucks into a Cruiser. This was a diesel engine and I seem to recall it was surprisingly easy and there's an existing adapter that was discussed. Sound familiar? I'm trying to figure out which model Cruiser and which diesel engine was the
popular swap. One of the posters on the thread had done a couple and I believe he was from Australia? What say ye?

And his reply:

It was an Isuzu 4BD1 (plus/minus turbo). I saw ads in Australian 4X4 magazines about 10 years ago for bolt in kits for Land Cruisers (and Land Rovers) for the 4cyl Isuzu, 3.9L. Land Rover Australia actually speced ALL Australian LRs with a 3.9L Isuzu, turned it into a torque machine. Maybe some of our Australian readers could help out, try the DTLC (diesel LC List) (dtlc@helios.net <mailto:dtlc@helios.net>). The 4cyl Isuzus are used in the smaller forward control trucks, I think the NPR. I'd grab the trans too, it's a good 5spd.

I know of no kits currently available, but I don't know everything. It's a good motor, it ranks right in there with the 4BT and Perkins 4 cyls. The Hino W04/W04T is also a superior 4 cyl motor.

Charlie (Aarons?)

Nissa Diesel The UD 1200 is powered by the FD46TA 4.6L diesel engine rated at 145-hp at 2,800 rpm. The standard transmission is the MES50C five-speed manual. The Aisin A5043L four-speed automatic is optional.

One more from the FAQ. After Searching with Google, I discovered there is a much more informative FAQ that is NOT posted as a web site on, click here for it, this is where the text below is stolen from (http://www.off-road.com/tlc/faq/faq.txt)

Isuzu Diesel

17.2 Diesel Engine Swaps
- ------------------------
I'm starting here because to me this is the swap that makes the most sense for a rock-crawling machine and is probably the least explored. As you'll figure out shortly, I'm pretty opinionated on this one and I welcome anyone to dispute my views. I believe that diesel engines are superior to gas ones for offroad use
for many reasons. They tend to make usable torque at much lower engine speed than gas engines. This means you don't need nearly as low a crawl gear. They also feature a much flatter torque curve. There is no ignition system to fail because of moisture. They are not as affected by altitude, in fact, turbocharged diesels are virtually immune to altitude. In most cases, even though they have all the advantages of a fuel injected engine, such as the ability to run at extreme angles, they rely on mechanical injection which is considerably simpler than electonic injection. Diesel engines also tend to get much better fuel economy and greater cruising range than gas engines of similar displacement.

There are three commonly available engines that are suitable for swapping into Land Cruisers.

The most easily obtained is the GM 6.2l diesel. It was offered
in Chev/GMC Pickups, Suburbans, and full-size Tahoes. A conversion kit is available from Mark's Adapters in Australia to mate a GM diesel to a Land Cruiser 4 speed manual or automatic transmission. The GM V8 weighs about as much as a big block, so pretty close to the weight of a 2F.

The GM 5.7l is without a doubt the worst diesel engine ever cobbled together. It is the Olds 350 block that was converted to diesel. Probably 99% of these motors have been blown apart for at least 10 years, but some may still be kicking around. If someone offers you one, they are NOT your friend.

A slightly more rare engine that I see as being a better match to a Land Cruiser is a Cummins B3.9 litre turbo diesel. It was used in among other things, Ford E350 cube vans, Chev/GMC P30/P3500 step vans, and Case 580 Tractors.

PowerMark used to offer a conversion kit (p/n RK9525G) that will allow you to bolt in a B3.5/5.9 in place of a GM 292 I6 or 350 V8. In order to put this engine into a LC using the stock transmission, you simply need to get the motor mounts/bellhousing Advance Adapters sells for putting a V8 in and use the Cummins engine instead. Unfortunately, it appears they've recently gone out
of business. Stay tuned... Thankfully not, AA is still very much so in business

I think the Cummins B5.9, as used in Dodge Ram is definitely too heavy to put into a 40 series, and is a little heavy for a 55/60/80 series. The above mentioned kit would also work for a B5.9.

The best diesel swap into an FJ40 I've ever seen is the Isuzu 3.9l diesel. Two of its applications were in Isuzu NPR series cab-forward trucks, and BELT LS2700CII (4BDIT).

I also believe it was used in the GM Forward 3000-4000 series trucks. There are two paths for putting an Isuzu diesel into a Land
Cruiser. The first involves a factory Isuzu adapter bellhousing. It is
designed to mate any SAE #3 flywheel cover to a GM manual transmission with a 5.125" bore. The part number is WF 150015. Unfortunately, this bellhousing has recently been discontinued. There are still some around--try your local Isuzu dealer. A better option is an adapter ring. I have yet to locate a commercial
source for these--the one I've seen was made years back by a company that has since moved/failed. The ring allows a GM bellhousing with a 350 bolt pattern to be attached to an SAE #3 flywheel cover. Using the adapter ring, it would be possible to attach the 4BD1T directly to a Toyota transmission with an Advance adapter Chev->Toyota bellhousing.

Please note, these specs are for INDUSTRIAL applications, not automotive. It provides the HP specs only for automotive applications but you can get an idea of the torque specs by doing a comparison (in the 250-300 ft/lbs area).

17.2.1 Isuzu Engine Specs
- -------------------------
DISP (INDUST) TORQUE COMP
MODEL (CC) CYL FUEL BHP* FT-LB RATIO
4BD1 3856 4 DD 88@2800 181@1600 17.1
4BD1T 3856 4 TDD 105@2500 240@1600 17.5:1

*Figures according to SAE J1349 Gross BHP test. "Automotive" BHP of the 4BD1T for instance is actually 121@3000

17.2.2 Cummins Engine Specs
- ---------------------------
DISP TORQUE DRY WT LENGTH HEIGHT
MODEL (CC) CYL FUEL BHP FT-LB (LBS) (IN) (IN)
4BT3.9 39xx 4 TID 105@2500 260@1500 705 30.1 35.6
4BTA3.9-120 39xx 4 TIDA 120@2500 302@1500 725 30.1 35.6

17.2.3 Diesel GM Specs
- ----------------------
YEARS DISP STOCK TORQUE COMP
MODEL AVAIL (CC) CYL FUEL HP FT-LB RATIO
5.7L 57xx V8 ID ..... ...... ......
6.2L -94 62xx V8 ID 150 250@2500 ......
6.5L 94- 65xx V8 ID 170 290@2000 ......
6.5LT 94- 65xx V8 TID 190 385@1700 ......

17.2.4 Nissan Diesel Specs
- --------------------------
DISP TORQUE COMP
MODEL (CC) CYL FUEL BHP FT-LB RATIO
SD33T 3245 6 T?D 101@3100 175@2200 21:1

MODEL BORE STROKE DRY WT LENGTH WIDTH HEIGHT
(IN) (IN) (LBS) (IN) (IN) (IN)
SD33T 3.27 3.94

FUEL
ID - Indirect Injection Diesel
DD - Direct Injection Diesel
T - Turbo
A - Aftercooled (erroniously called Intercooled by most)

Begin extra commentary:

I'm currently chatting with a guy who's working to put an Isuzu 6BD1 into an FJ45 pickup AND a guy who's planning to put a Cummins 4BTA3.9 into an FJ40. The former is in Canada, the latter is in California. Anything these guys discover will be added to the FAQ as it comes in.

Now, as for GM diesels vs. any other diesels, if _I_ was going to all the hassle /expense to swap a diesel into an FJ40/60, I'd want to do it right. I don't think either the 6.2 OR the 6.5 are "doing it right."

For starters, a normally aspriated diesel is a diesel yearning to be whole. Turbo-charging of diesels is pretty much essential. You get better efficiency, better emissions, AND as a bonus, more power. Check out the above figures, the Cummins 4BTA3.9 puts out more torque 500RPM lower than the 6.5 from 1/2 the cylinders and ~2/3 the displacement. Plus, it'll probably get roughly 1.5x the fuel economy.

Now, the BIG draw-back is that the 4BTA3.9 is CONSIDERABLY more expensive. To get a Cummins Re-man unit and adapters with air compressor AND hydraulic (PS) pump gear-driven off the crank (only belts are for the fan/water pump) it's about US$7k. Keep in mind though that that Cummins motor comes with at
300000mi WARRANTY. The warranty of the motor is 100000mi LONGER than the projected lifespan of the GM 6.2! GM 6.2s are a dime-a-dozen, but then again, you get what you pay for.
__________________________________________________ __________________
Rob Mullen RAMullen@wimsey.com <mailto:RAMullen@wimsey.com> Vancouver, B.C. Canada |
Editor of the TLC FAQ TLCA #3036, Coastal Cruisers |
'80 Toyota BJ40 Diesel Land Cruiser Why walk?...When you can CRAWL!| '83 Toyota BJ60 Land Cruiser


VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
V
>> Morgan Fletcher 63 FJ40, 76 FJ55, 94 FJ80 TLCA #5973, Oakland, CA
<<
>> Illegitimi non carborundum <http://www.birfield>

Can you tell I do lots of HTML coding for a living? --Also, look for this to be posted to my web site shortly.

Also, I located the phone number of the guy who installed the 4BD1T into his 40. If I get any other info I'll post it (including picts!)

hey i will sell the whole truck for 2k, it has 129k on it and i have never tried to start it. its a auto 92 model. i bought it at a goverment auction and haven't had a chance to mess with it. mike

way to go dieselcruiser, great info, i too desperatly seek diesel power for my 55 and may join the ranks on this engine conversion,,keep us posted on new info.

hey diesel head

we get them factory over here :flipoff2:

but seriously

sam (strange rover) over in the land rover (pommy metal) section on this site have swapped one of these engines into a 90's model rang rover, pretty sweet swap and put a WRX subaru turbo on it

also they run it on chip fat.......

UNREAL
smells like chips when you drive behind it, its pure chip fat too....not biodiesel

makes me hungry

yeah one of Gunracer's buddies has his Diesel rig running off used grease.

Never thought of that one!

also they run it on chip fat.......

UNREAL
smells like chips when you drive behind it, its pure chip fat too....not biodiesel

:D

I'm actually trying to get non-profit funding to build one of these, for the "environment." We'll see if it happens!

Eric Vogt said they used to do this up in Yellow Stone and the bears would follow the trucks around :D

dieselcruiserhead aka veggiecruiserhead :D

Dieselhead,

That is a great idea. Maybe I can petition for one of those grants that goes unused every year from the government. Write an letter on looking for environmentally friendly alternatives for offroad vehicular transportation. Maybe I'll call that guy on the tv with the suit with all the question marks on it. Good idea. Thanks

BTW, what is chip fat???:confused:

-Darius

the one buddie of mine has converted his diesel chevette, his diesel suburban. and also has converted a few more over to grease. hell the more i think about it i could take my 86 fj60 and stuff that npr motor and tranny in and run it on grease. it would be awful cheap to drive back and forth to work.

Chip fat is deep fat fryer fat...(Chips=frenchfries)

You might hit up the truck recyclers for the bellhousing. When I called around on the engine, a couple of places would include the flywheel and a bellhousing of you choice if they had one. early Isuzu and GMC NPR's reportedly used this bellhousing(to mate to a GM manual tranny) fairly frequently.

I just uploaded all of this crap on my site, it grew another 15-20 pages tonight alone: http://www.cisautoweb.com/dtlc/cummins.html

I also talked with the fellow who installed it into his FJ40. He made it sound a little harsher than one might think but I'm still thinking versus the 4BT it's still the way to go. He's running it in a 40 with a SM420 so there's gotta be some noise & harshness of course. He also says it might not be such a good candidate for a larger rig (like a 60 or 80) because up hills it still pulls great but runs out of EGTs. (I put a section on EGTs on my site if you're not sure what I'm talking about). But still sounds like the ticket I think. Dimensions wise looks like there's still some floor pan clearance issues so of course it'll need some lift which is fine. Bennett emailed me the weight: 719 lbs (not that bad). He says it produces gobs of torque and eats drivetrains apart, pinions, driveshafts etc. He says anything after the tranny "watch out." We also talked a lot about gearing, 4.11s with 35s and an NV4500 should be about perfect. He says he barely wants to use his overdrive with his 33's and 4.11s. So maybe the 35s will make it overkill...(?) but we'll see. Also redline is somewhere near 3500 rpms, much higher than the 4BT. He says it'll do 3000 rpms all day but it wants to be at 2200, just like a Toyota diesel. I uploaded a ton of stuff about Toyota diesels too, not much of it well proofed yet (so pardon the spelling mistakes) but I think there's good info. If anyone wants to point out any errors do so by all means email ashoumat@zoo.uvm.edu or the email on the site.

Later,

Anyone have an answer on my question on this thread. Anyone know the difference between A Aisan A440 used in the 80 and the A450 used in the Isuzu?

Gunracer, what tranny does your 92 have with it?

Anyone have an update for us?? yes i am bringing this back from the dead. found it doing some diesel research. Swaps that have been done?? More tech info??

TIA

None that I have heard of but someone is remaking the adapter for this bellhousing to regular sae#3 so no drilling required. It is still a sweet engine, just hard to find. I think it is a little shallower, I believe it fits in a cruiser with old man emu (2.5") lift verus a Cummins 3.9 that is a tighter fit. But this is a guess. But the guy who had one in his 40 had a small lift, which I would not recommend for a 40 with a Cummins 3.9l

None that I have heard of but someone is remaking the adapter for this bellhousing to regular sae#3 so no drilling required. It is still a sweet engine, just hard to find. I think it is a little shallower, I believe it fits in a cruiser with old man emu (2.5") lift verus a Cummins 3.9 that is a tighter fit. But this is a guess. But the guy who had one in his 40 had a small lift, which I would not recommend for a 40 with a Cummins 3.9l


i have seen 4bts and even 6bts in cruisers, i have even seen a 6bt in a minitruck...all pics, none in person. so they will fit, just tons of lift and mods to clear a very tall motor...any dimensions on the isuzu diesel compared to the cummins motors?? i think that i can get the isuzu motor pretty cheap with a tranny..

Does anyone have any photos of either a Izusu 4BD1T or a Cummins 4BT diesel sitting in the chassis of a FJ40? I would like to see how it sits heightwise.

Isuzu 3.9L has same volume and big long stroke but overall is a hair less deep. I have talked to a guy who lives somewhere between Sac and Tahoe if I remember correctly who's got one in a 40. If you California guys remember he did the pull off all loaded down versus the Unimog. Forget his name but really nice guy with years on this setup and was very happy with it. Big thing is he only has a 2.5" lift and it clears fine. You need at least 4" with a Cummins 4BT. Definetely a peppy and strong engine, they are all over the east coast and big cities and I have been passed by some of them on the big grades out here at 75 mph or faster... The bolt pattern is SAE #3 with the holes just slightly off. So the engine sits 10-15 degrees crooked (like a cummins with a chevy pattern, this is how mine sits in my cruiser) or you can have an adapter made or redrill. I can't remember who but someone was working on one of these adapters in the cruiser community a year or so ago. Not sure if it ever got off the ground. Sae #3 is the same pattern *Dodge* Cummins have (not 100% sure of this but pretty sure) which is a round industrial spec and is common enough. So if you buy your NV4500 or whatever, buy one for a Dodge Cummins aka a "NV4500HD." Good luck with it.. Also my site now lives at cruisers.shoumatoffmedia.com Andre

What about 4bt to an automatic? Which auto would work?

What about 4bt to an automatic? Which auto would work?

Turbo 400s came behind some of the 4bts in bread trucks. I imagine a 4l80e without the electronics could be made to make a nice tranny behind that motor. The neat thing about the 4 cylinder is it isn't producing the huge amounts of torque that that 6 does that typically tears the auto trannies up. A built 700r4 would probably work nicely. I imagine the Dodge autos found behind the Cummins would also work.

Be carefull with an auto behind a 4BT. The 4's have a pretty strong torque pulse which kills automatics. Have a TH475 behind a 4bt sitting on the shop floor, the input shaft is sheared in the tranny...

The Isuzu flywheel cover is not SAE#3. It is unique to the Isuzu 4 and 6 bd1's. I have both a bellhousing that mates the Isuzu to a GM manual, and adapter rings that mate to GM,Ford and Chrysler auto's.Sort of a hobby of mine. I have an early 4bd1 in a 1980 Ford E350.It is non-turbo, therefore not quick, but gets 30mpg at a top speed of around 70mph. I have an '83 FJ60 with a Ranger o/d and crate chevy that I am planning to replace with a turbo 4bd1. I am hoping that I can get away with a 2.5 inch lift. I will let you know how it goes

Is there a part number for thht Isuzu to GM manual trans?... and that adapter ring.. are they still available?
I've had a motor located for 2 years... it a 92 3.9 behind an auto... I'd really like to pursue this if there is any kind of adapter available to mate it to a GM. My trans guys said he can build a 700 R4 that WILL hold up behind it.

The rings are no longer available through GM or Isuzu. I am thinking about having some made by a local machinist. I believe the '92 you have located is a 4BD2, which is electronically controlled. I can't help you with that aspect of the swap, and, in fact, have not heard of one being done.It might be as simple as switching to a mechanical injection pump.

This is the case with the VW's, the electronics will swap out to mechanical. You have to pardon me because there is very little information out there but I have heard from a Isuzu tech who told me it was a sae #3 but with the holes rotated but he must have been wrong...? I have been told that that 4DB2T's are mechanical as well through 1995. Coog have we spoken about this because someone said they are thinking of making the adapters but I don't remember who...

I am by no means an expert on most of the engineering included in this swap. I have taken the specs. of a SAE#3 b.h off the web and it does not look the same as my Isuzu flywheel housing.If it were a SAE 3, the swap would be much easier; there are several companies that make adapters to mate industrial motors to automotive transmissions. As to the 4bd2, I know that it uses a different pattern transmission,oil pan, turbo boost control, etc., yet retains the same block and head. I don't believe that you and I have spoken regarding these adapters, but I would like to guage the interest in them before I take the plunge and have some made. Now remember, this is for Chevy to Isuzu; this works for me because I have a Chevy pattern Ranger o.d mated to me L.C tranny.Advance Adapters and others make this fairly routine, but it does add to the expense and complexity

If it worked for SM465 itr would be pretty easy to adapt across the board including NV4500 which would be tremendous. AA makes a plate adapter from SM465 to NV4500 for use with the Dodge SD input shaft. Very few people are still interested in using LC transmissions because of the lack of off road gearing except for the H55F non USA 5 speed but I would not worry about this. I am sure between Berg and I we would take at least one. If you want to email back channel that is fine andre at shoumatoffmedia.com but let me know idea of costs etc...

Coog,

What would it take to get you to trace the Isuzu bellhousing or even just take some measurements. I want to compare it to the later model Cruisers. I'd actually like to see both sides. Then I could decide if it would be possible to bolt it up to a Aisan 440/442. Spine count on the input shaft would be great too.

Eric V.

Coog and I have been emailing and he's sent me a ton of photos and some with measurements. I'll post em here in a sec, let me just resize them...

Any Updates?

Let me post what I have here... I am redoing my diesel site as we speak. Finally, an uipdate... First in something like three years! :)

Here is the SAE chart info I have, just scanned photos 1 & 2. I have them larger if anyone needs.

http://cruisers.shoumatoffmedia.com/SAEchart/

And here is the rest of my junk...
Maybe Coog can explain a little better...

http://cruisers.shoumatoffmedia.com/4bdbellhousing/

Coog writes:

I've gleaned more info over the weekend that may be useful. Most importantly, Isuzu did use a sae 3 pattern PRE turbo; that is, the older non-turbo 4 and 6 used a sae 3 while the later 4bd1t used a non sae, smaller pattern. God only knows why. In any case, it's info that makes the options clearer for future swaps.

Makes sense. I bleieve the old timer who told me about 4DB bellhousing did the swap with a non turbo...

Sure looks like sae (round) to me... IMO

That is a picture of a early 6BD1.The turbo is aftermarket.Note that both the non-turbo and turbo use this round flywheel cover, but they have a different bolt pattern. I need to confirm this, but I think that the bolt pattern to the engine is the same for both, so it may be as easy as swapping flywheel covers in order to achieve a SAE#3 pattern.

Cool

I' been asking dumb questions about making bellhousing adapters etc in general 4x4. Some good answers...
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=404056

so, will the pre-turbo flywheel housing bolt to the back of a 4BD1-T block, and pre-turbo flywheel bolt to the 4BD1-T crank? if so, then you've got an SAE #3 4BD1-T...or am I missing something?

Steve

I've gleaned more info over the weekend that may be useful. Most importantly, Isuzu did use a sae 3 pattern PRE turbo; that is, the older non-turbo 4 and 6 used a sae 3 while the later 4bd1t used a non sae, smaller pattern. God only knows why. In any case, it's info that makes the options clearer for future swaps.

We have been discussing this on the 4BT list, click my sig for archives. Lots of good new info for anyone interested...

PS sTeve... :flipoff2:

been watching the 4BT list, just didn't see that specific question answered...though I'd be amazed if the back of the blocks were different.

:D

I found this thread when searching for info on isuzu diesel swaps. I figured I would add this link...

http://www.isuzudieselswapper.com/

I found this a little bit ago when looking into the 4bd isuzu swap. The 4bd looks like a great swap to me. The turbo is also on the pass side so the exhaust can run down opposite the driveshafts and t-case in a cruiser/rover/early jeep.

The turbo is also on the pass side so the exhaust can run down opposite the driveshafts and t-case in a cruiser/rover/early jeep.

Um, I guess that depends on whether it is a RHD or LHD vehicle; in the US of A the driveshafts are on the passenger side. In OZ, Japan and the UK (and prolly some other RHD locales), the driveshafts are on the drivers side.

BTW, thanks for the link. Information is key!

Andy

The turbo is also on the pass side so the exhaust can run down opposite the driveshafts and t-case in a cruiser/rover/early jeep.

Um, I guess that depends on whether it is a RHD or LHD vehicle; in the US of A the driveshafts are on the passenger side. In OZ, Japan and the UK (and prolly some other RHD locales), the driveshafts are on the drivers side.

BTW, thanks for the link. Information is key!

Andy

opps.....how about exhaust opposite the driveshafts in cruisers/rovers/early jeeps.

pretty sure all cruisers are right side diffs for what its worth, regardless of RHD or LHD... I was going to add that link too, about 6 months or so that guy appeared.. He has been doing mostly auto swaps but some NV4500 and manuals too. Semi Expensive, I think $800 or so...

I didn't think it was too expensive look at what a Mark's bellhousing adapter costs from AA.

I'm thinking about this more and more every day. All I can find are those pesky 4BTs when I'm searching for the Isuzu motor. I might just end up going that route.

I'm still about a year out on this project I think. It depends if my 40 project gets in the way. Heck I should just sell that and do the diesel.

Yeah, the 4bd's are kinda hard to find. I see them on ebay but they are all like 3-5K.

just like the 4bts seems like the whole trucks are cheaper than the engines :)

I'm looking into the 4bd1t for my 40 and have a few questions. Does anyone know what electrical wiring is required? Is it the same as wiring a GM 6.2L?
Can you use the isuzu vaccum pump with stock LC brakes? How about the isuzu power steering pump with a saginaw box? Any help would be appreciated.

Dieselcruiserhead has put up an Isuzu 4BD1T/4BD2T forum on his 4btswaps.com website.
Well worth the visit. All of the previous questions in this thread are answered there.

www.4btswaps.com

Can someone help me out here I have a 2001 NPR with a blown motor .. I have a old cummins 12 value . Can It be put in front of the isuzu manual trans please help not sure what to do

ever run a twin turbo setup using tiny to spool larger? could probably get some serious mpg and throttle response...

Aisan A440 and A450 are almost exactly the same the difference is the A450 uses a bellhousing with a starter hole in the back because there is no room to mount the starter in the front. So if you want to cut out your floor pan to alow for room for the starter you can use the A450 bellhousing on the A440. There is a thread on this matter on IHMUD.com Or you could use the A450 with a divorced Tcase.

Sorry for revisiting this old thread. The 4btswaps website is dead and I couldn't think of another place to seek help.

I sent two emails to the address mentioned in www.isuzudieselswapper.com and got no reply. Does anybody know if he is still in business?

Thanks!

Sorry for revisiting this old thread. The 4btswaps website is dead and I couldn't think of another place to seek help.

I sent two emails to the address mentioned in www.isuzudieselswapper.com and got no reply. Does anybody know if he is still in business?

Thanks!

The 4btswaps website works this morning.