Just spending this vacation bored at home. Have been cleaning the garage, getting ready to finish up the FrankenRover, but still waiting on some key parts. Here is what I have been up to:

Connor (my 5 y.o. son) has a nice little Lanard Toy D90 that he loves. It originally came with some lame small tires. After a few years of "wheelin" the thing all over everything he broke both axles and the "diff" in the back (the pull string quit working). Sooo, I cannabilized the wheels and axles off another small jeep we had. Worked pretty well, but the axles were pretty weak, and soon enough, he bent the front and rear and popped off the wheels. With this extra time, I put her in the shop for some major upgrades. Again I cannabilized another toy (this time a Chevy full size with big ass tires) and got the axles (at least D60's!) and tires. In the stock location, the tires bit the front edge of the rear wheel well, so I had to extend the wheelbase, cut out the fenders a bit and work on the suspension (two pieces of bailing wire holding the axle). Now it looks like an extreme wheeler!

Here it is:

Here is another - Poor Freelander

Not much room for articulation on this beast though. Needs some coilovers I think.

Here is the other project I have been working on. Redoing the home network, and putting all the puters on two long desks, instead of multiple small workstations.

And last but not least, putting together a new main CPU:

2.53 Intel P4
Abit IT7 Mobo (no legacy stuff, usb/firewire only)
Corsair PC 2700 RAM 1 gig
Geforce 4 Ti 4600 Video card
Dual WD 120 GB HD's in a RAID 0 array
CoolerMaster ATCS case

I figure I should be able to surf the net 0.01% faster than I already do (Athlon Tbird 1200 right now) looking for rover crap.

Later,

Billster

ps. This computer assembly is alot like putting the truck back together from scratch. Now I just have to install XP and be done with it.

ha ha ha ha h a ha ha aha ha ah ahaaaa :D :D :D

Sad thing is that the little yellow D90 still goes better than my Rangie at the moment :(

Hey gasspasser,

At least you have space to work! I should take a pic of my 'office' while we're staying in this damn condo.

I love the D90. Very cool.

Also, the workstation is looking a lot like some kind of home-school computer lab.

I share your frustration!!!!

Oh, I got a plane ticket from Vegas to SLC for Friday night. Pick up the Serious One and the cooking trailer and head south.

I'll be in Moab by midnight and wheeling by 8am!!!! Woohoo!!!!

I think Cooper and I are doing Upper Helldorado Saturday regardless of schedules. Sunday, who knows. I have to be back in Vegas Sun. night.

mike, let me just say that i personally see no way that you are going to make upper helldorado in the serious one. now i wont even try to stop you from trying, but once you go in, theres no goin out, and dont expect the truck to look the same at the other end.

if you go for it, good luck, and remember to take lots of pics.

1. Define 'make upper Helldorado'

2. Your flag is displayed backwards.

3. Frankenrover, where is the link to Sandi's pics?

4. Your sig should read: "Fortunate to be an American" (at least it would if it were mine).

5. Are you willing to place a monetary bet????

6. There is a way out once you go in. (just after the first obstacle)

7. Have you ever seen Upper Helldorado 'in person'?

8. You might be right, but I'm willing to see if you're wrong.

9. Hmmm........

Serious One has already done the lower half of Upper Helldardo. Here is one of the picts. He backed out because the rest of us were too chicken shit to follow him up there.

Here you go:
http://www.defender-90.com/otr_01_uh.htm

Billster

1. "Make" means without significant body or mechanical damage

2. Thank you for bringing that to my attention, I did not notice.

4. Fawk off.

5. I am willing to bet you $25

6. Quit being a dick

7. I am pretty sure your avatar violates the "No nips, No lips" rule

8. WTF is your problem with me lately anyways? I tried to let the whole picture thing go, but you dont seem to want to?

I agree with the flag being backwards, read this and learn:
http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagetiq.html

1. 10-4 agreed (still a bit vague on 'significant'). Broken axles? Major dents? Driveline twistage? Maybe a 'group concensus' on what constitutes serious breakage. I'm ok with whatever.

2. You're welcome. I didn't know it either until I went to hang up my flag from my porch vertically last year on 9/12. I had to dig out my Boy Scout Handbook to make sure it was right. From then on it's been kind of a small personal crusade to point it out (hopefully graciously).

4. Maybe later.

5. Make your check out to Timm Cooper. He needs the cash.

6. Just stating a fact. I guess that makes Magellan (round earth theory) and Einstein (e=mc2) both dicks.

7. I'll change it.

8. I don't remember mentioning the photo thing after OS and I discussed it privately. You should see what I decided to edit after your last comment about the photos. FYI, I did let it go. Lettin' it go again....

Adam.

I will chime in here as well.

I have taken a ration of your shit, served when I did nothing to deserve it. See below:

Originally posted by 9-Volt


um, ok. so instead of just pushing it forward into low range, you have to push it forward and to the left...

WHOOP-DEE-FAWKIN-DOO!!!!!!!!!

the 230 is stronger, more reliable, cheaper to rebuild, more controllable, and you know it is locked, cause it is always locked when you want it to be. i have witnessed in the trail (esp in muddy conditions) that the BW still has a bit of give to take in before it locks, and that little bit in a momentum situation is the difference between making it or not.

and besides, if you cannot be bothered to move the damn lever one more detent before getting it, then i guess you cant be bothered to get out and air down your tires either. after all, why prep the truck when you can just point and shoot down the trail?\

id hate to see you bitch if you had a manual on the trail... ohhhh i dont like this, its too hard. i just like to point and shoot.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Ok. WHO THE FAWK PISSED IN YOUR WHEATIES!

I can take shiat as well as give it, but, consider the following.

I have been driving "off road" for as long as you have been alive.

I learned to drive off road in a porsche motored rail job, that at the ripe age of eleven I helped build the motor for.

Also, I have never been "in the trail" is that a frickin zen thing?

You have never met me, seen me or wheeled with me, so keep the personal shiat to yourself.

Oh, and one more thing, listen to Way if you won't listen to me.

Johnny


We had a saying back when I was protecting the right to freedom for you:

"don't let your aligator mouth overload your tweety bird ass"

You seem to have a bad case of that Adam.

Oh, and ask yourself something else. If your so proud to be an american, would you spend multiple years of your life in some god-foresaken country (or multiple ones) making sure that someone else had the capability to be proud? By volunteering? Without a draft? Think hard about that one.

I will now try and let it go again, but unfortunately you keep reminding me.

Originally posted by FrankenRover
Just spending this vacation bored at home. Have been cleaning the garage, getting ready to finish up the FrankenRover, but still waiting on some key parts. Here is what I have been up to:

Connor (my 5 y.o. son) has a nice little Lanard Toy D90 that he loves. It originally came with some lame small tires. After a few years of "wheelin" the thing all over everything he broke both axles and the "diff" in the back

He, he! sounds like a typical rover axle :mad:
But after converting axles ect... there is one thing you forgot!
Ya gotta stretch it to a 110 and paint it purple to be just like
Dads. :D

As for Mike doing upper heldo..... I was there with the others when he did the 1st few feet... we also scouted further up the trail and there was at least one exit point before the squeeze, and one after ( I think ).. and Mike did a wonderful job on the beginning ( I have great pics.. but I'm a cheap newbie bastard ( read I have an anti pop-up program :) )...
I might tried myself that trip if it weren't for some 90 weight...

at least I'm off to Pismo this weekend

Adam: I'll put $25 up against you on Slade making it without breaking the drivetrain or sustaining body damage bad enough to require bailing. You lose, you pay Cooper. I lose I pay you. All in good sport. Bet?

And Mike? Its Magellan!:flipoff2:

Simon

okay, i thought it was bad enough to bring up something from a few weeks ago, but now you go and pull something out from several months ago? that was one of your first posts, i had NO idea what kind of wheeler you were, what kind of experience you had, etc. it sounded to me like you were just bitching that you had to move the shifter a little more. who pissed in YOUR cheerios today?

please read my original post to mike:

"mike, let me just say that i personally see no way that you are going to make upper helldorado in the serious one. now i wont even try to stop you from trying, but once you go in, theres no goin out, and dont expect the truck to look the same at the other end.

if you go for it, good luck, and remember to take lots of pics."

how is that so aggressive as to make you come out against me? i was stating my opinion in a civilized, non-attacking manner to MIKE about UPPER HELLDORADO and you bust out with some shit about a LT230 shifter? :rolleyes:

Simon- I would like to keep the bets between michael and myself :D

and as for what siginifant drivetrain damage means, axle shafts dont count but i will count diffs, driveshafts, and anything forward of that. mechanical also means other moving parts that may get damaged, a la suspension. wheels and tires dont count either.

am i being fair? also i would like this documented with a large amount of photos, if at all possible, which you WILL relieve your intellectual rights on (not trying tobe an ass, just laying down the rules) and post them here on the PBB. i will retain the right to call off the bet if significant evidence is not provided in either case. you may do the same if you wish.

How about not makin it a money bet. Make the odds say, you lose (which you will), and Michael can have permission to send your tin foil panty pictures to the yearbook editors. If Mike loses (which he won't) he'll send you a case of beer as when you are underage that is like gold anyways...

:flipoff2: :D Way

(Helldorado that is) But I'll still bet on Mike. I'll even donate my winnings to the PBB, come AWN Adam!:flipoff2:

call me a pussy if you wish, but i am calling off this bet. i thought it would be a friendly (too much to ask i guess :rolleyes:) thing between me and mike, but it has turned into a huge thing, that is pretty :rainbow:

i will still retain my position however that the truck wont make it in a graceful manner.

Adam,

You're making it too easy, I was going to include axle breakage and tires.

The suspension won't fail.

Also, 'intellectual property' is something that is different from 'intellectual rights'. In fact, I'm not sure what the term 'intellectual rights' means, except that perhaps an individual has the right to be intellectual? Maybe you can define what you think you're talking about, and then I'll tell you how that differs from copyright law and reproduction rights. Also, there is a term in the industry called a 'buy out', which essentially strips you the right to any monetary compensation and the image, and all subsequent monies generated from it's usage, are not paid to you. BTW, I have never had a buy-out, and the people whom I do know who have done it got paid very well (6-figures), BUT they said they wouldn't do it again.

When I post images to the internet they do NOT become public record. Ask McGraw Hill what happens when you steal images from me without asking even though they're on the internet. I get paid.

So, if I (or anyone else) posts images to the internet, (or text, or drawings, or anything else) the original copyright is always retained in EVERY case, unless a provision for transfer of copyright is expressly made.

I will be happy to post others images of the events in Moab on the internet only if those people have given me permission to do so. I won't be able to take any pictures because I'll be driving (remember?). I've tried to shoot and drive before, and well, it's just not polite to others who are trying to share the road.

Also, you use the term 'significant evidence'. It seems to me that the testimony of 2 or 3 witnesses would suffice even without photographic evidence. In fact, in some cases photographic evidence proves contrary to an eyewitnesses testimony (right Simon?) when the eyewitnesses testimony actually is what happened.

Anyone who believes the old adage "The camera never lies", has obviously never picked up and used a camera.

I'll let you and RedRangie duke it out (I'll watch with glee from the sidelines though).

Oh and I just got off the phone with Cooper. He's excited to follow me through UH and make some dough-ray-me.

Simon, take your side-bets somewhere else! The pressure is killing me!
:flipoff2:

Dude, ok, we won't bet. But there's no reason to back out of the bet with Mike. Just do it. And who said anything about a graceful manner. You said he wouldn't make it and he thinks he will. Looked to me like the terms were pretty well defined. Stick with your word. A simple dispute. Mike wanted to see how much you meant what you typed - hence the $$$ involved. Sorry to both you and Mike if I am what made the whole thing seem :rainbow: to you but you should stick by the bet

I tell my boys (ages 8 and 4) that men always keep their word. You should stick by the bet.


:rolleyes:
Simon

Dang. I was actually getting excited about this.

It's too bad that you don't have confidence in the Serious One Adam (or maybe it'ss me you don't have confidence in?).

If Cooper has enough confidence to let me risk damaging his pride and joy (the Serious One) in UH, and you don't, maybe you ought to be reassesing the confidence you show in Cooper's design of the custom panhard rod bracket.

Kind of a stretch of logic, I know, but that's the kind of circle that you're now thinking within.

(from my logic class in college...oh so many years ago....)

If Cooper believes that the S1 will make UH with no breakage

and

Cooper believes that the panhard bracket he designs for Adam will not fail

and

Adam does not trust Coopers judgement regarding a trail run

therefore

Should Adam trust Coopers judgement regarding a serious and vital suspension component that if it were to fail would/could result in serious injury or loss of life?

just thinking out loud and attempting to re-introduce an air of levity into this otherwise meaningless discussion....

I'm taking my ball and batand going home!:flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Simon

:rolleyes:

i have plenty of confidence in you, and i have lots of confidence in the One too. but i just dont think it will make THAT trail. nothing wrong with that. and since YOU seem to like to drag cooper into everything, if he told you that the One could float, would you believe him?

I think he wants to back out of the money bet for the more favorable gentlemens bet that I described above. I didn't take it that he wanted to back out all together. Or did I read wrong? LOL....this is entertaining to say the least.

Way

No. I wouldn't, and he hasn't (he's not that stupid you know).

Besides, Cooper and I have been planning UH for almost a year now, maybe two.

Bill, you still bored????

how much body damage are you expecting to get?

Interesting conversation... I have spent much of my professional life doing some from or another of industrial engineering/design. Mainly hydraulic or chemical (wastewater treatment). Some for a captive audience (fee simple-wage slave work), some paid consulting. In some cases, I was able to retain my rights to what I had done, in others, it belonged to my employer-some are more lenient than others.

I'm curious about the distinction between illustrative images vs. narrative descriptions. If I reverse engineer a device and publicly discuss my findings, have I stolen the property of the original designer? Do I have any rights to my discoveries and assumptions made upon those discoveries?

The other day, I made some statements about Saginaw steering pump installations. I now wonder if I trod on GM's property, or if my "Discoveries" have any intellectual property value?

In the more distant past (slightly more distant), I was asked about MY design for relocating steering dampeners and my reasoning for it being stronger than what is commonly available. I shared the pictures with many folks in hopes that someday, my wildest fantasies might come truer and I might actually begin fabricating production level quantities of these devices. While I did state at the time and now that this was a copyrighted design, I have few fears of another ignoring my statement of ownership of the idea. In the real world, there are very few folks with the ability, much less the interest to fabricate their own components and to some extent, consider my stating ownership of the idea to be little more than self-aggrandizement.

Many years ago, I came up with an improvement to a piece of scientific equipment (an injection port for a gas chromatograph for those who know or might be interested). I spent several thousand dollars on a trip to Washington DC (did get to see another Dead show though!). What I learned was that an individual who has an idea is better off claiming rights and building as many as possible before the huge conglomerate who made the discovery many years ago catches up with you, if they decide you are of sufficient threat to their market share. Turns out that Hewlett Packard claims to own just about everything that has to do with gas chromatography and they will chase you to the ends of the world to protect that claim.

Curiously, I have been forced to sign many non-disclosure documents, only to find that the process was something that had been done as an experiment in general chemistry, sometimes, even in high school! I once told a plating shop owner that not only was there nothing unique about his process, he wasn't doing it very well. Surprisingly, I made a lot of money redesigning his process for him.

BTW- I failed philosophical logic in college!

Intellectual property or not, let us share our ideas and discoveries, otherwise, let's get them to the marketplace so we can buy one, steal the design, make many to sell and make the lawyers wealthy! That was a bad joke!

Paul

Nope, not bored anymore. Nice exchange! I have full confidence that you and S1 will do well on UH (except for the final waterfall - winchin baby!!). Might grind the crap outta the rear cage on the straddle rock half way up, but you may be able to take a hard left line and stay on the rock (like the zuks) since you are sooo petite!

Billster

Honestly?

Well, I'll run w/out doors and no top.

The other variable is do I run with my skinny BFG's or my Swampers. The swampers are only 31's, but they're a bit wider offset than the BFG's and on beadlocks.

The first obstacle won't mess me up much, I got the scrapes backing out of it, not heading in.

There is an off-camber wall about 1/3 of the way into the trail that I'll probably scrape my cage on for about 4-5 feet. Cooper has removed the rear of his full cage in preperation for this obstacle alone.

The toughest obstacle is just after that off-camber wall with a trapezoidal rock that's about 4-5 feet tall smack dab in the middle of the trail. Either line to either side isn't good. I'll probably scrape there either on body panels or the cage. If you went over on your side there you wouldn't go far before the rocks held you up. That is usually where people have to winch. I'll probably have to use the winch there as my wheelbase and/or tire size might work against me.

The last obstacle is a cake walk when you finally admit to yourself that you have to use the winch. I'll pull up onto it with my front tires and toss the hook up. A short 15 foot pull and you're up onto the top of the waterfall.

Let's put it this way. I don't think I'll do enough body damage to warrant getting out the bondo and paint up the panel.

I don't think I'll break anything in the drivetrain, the center diff is a spool now, the axle diffs are ARB's, the front axles are Warns and the rears are D-90 stock. My truck only weighs about 4200 lbs empty, so I don't think I'll be breaking UJ's with the tiny tires. Wheelspin is your enemy on UH, and I think I'm smart enough to keep my tires from binding up enough to snap a UJ. I hope so anyway, those axles are expen$ive.

The bugs have been worked out of the suspension geometry.

My weakest link at this juncture is the Holley ECU. Sometimes it works, sometimes it don't. I have a replacement ECU custom chipped by Holley coming, but it won't be there in time to install.

Second weakest link is the clutch slave cylinder/bracket. The slave cylinder comes out of adjustment easily. It's by CNC with a bracket Cooper made, but the space issues really didn't give him enough room to figure it out properly. Luckily Advance Adapters has a sweet bracket and slave cylinder for the Land Cruiser which he's bringing with him. Maybe we'll install it prior to UH.

Third weakest link is probably my ego at this point. I'll need a smack from a trail before I chill out and just drive. You winding me into a frenzy and Simon placing side-bets doesn't help that much, so thanks.

We'll see how it goes.

Remember, I have to *fly* to SLC to pick up the truck (which IMO is the most dangerous part of this weekend).

thank you for the well worded response. from hearing you speak of your truck and of the trail now i have better hopes for you doing the trail (and finishing it). good luck with it and remember, lots of PICS!!! :flipoff2:

and heres to you mike for actually being one of the few to admit that their egos are getting overinflated (although yours doesnt seem to be TOO bad now). some say that on a quiet, windless night, you can still hear the air escaping from Chris Velardi's head after he rolled in Moab :D

jokes aside, have fun and lets not get caught up in this betting stuff. truce?

:beer:

edit: forgot. i would definetly run the swampers aired down pretty well. maybe 10 psi?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Adam G. Check
[B]i had NO idea what kind of wheeler you were, what kind of experience you had, etc. it sounded to me like you were just bitching that you had to move the shifter a little more. who pissed in YOUR cheerios today? [QUOTE]

You just made my point for me. Thanks for saving me time. Now, in a polite society if one does not know something, one keeps their ideas/opinions/conjecture to themselves. Especially when it is of a personal nature or description/opinion. Elsewise you run the risk of getting yourself into this very situation.

BTW, I think that the POR board allows apologies to be posted as well Adam.


j

Ok, this is my last post, and then I'll crawl back in my hole. Sorry if the side bet made you nervous, but Mike, are you whining about the stress and pressure of doing the trail when all the rest of us will be working, have rigs in a million pieces, have never rockcrawled and/or have no prospect of the wife ever letting us off the leash long enoughto get anywhere near that trail? Damn, I wish I was so unlucky!!!! I gotta ask permission just to walk the freaking dog! Dude, I had to give you some crap over that, since my name was mentioned!:flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Simon

:flipoff2:

Originally posted by redrangie
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Adam G. Check
[B]iBTW, I think that the POR board allows apologies

fine, here is my apology for jumping on your case about the shifter several months ago. i really do not know what this accomplishes this late in the game, but you will have my admittance that my words were not kind at all, and they they were very assuming. wrongly assuming.

:beer:

Thank you.

:D

Well guys,

I went down to New York, New York (the Casino) hoping to get in a 'Kum-Ba-Yah fest' of some sort.

Guess I missed all the warm fuzzies right here. :(

Simon, you know I love to give you shiat, so I just had to when I had the chance. Hope it's ok!

:flipoff2:

And yeah, I have to admit I'm pretty lucky. I'll think of you when I'm scraping along the slick rock!

mike'll make it. I was also there when we started UH and he could have definately made it a lot further and he just stopped out of consideration for the less built up rigs (mine which was about to gain a new breating hole in the diff) So I think mike's going to make it Wish I was going to be there (damn those parts I'm waiting for and the FJ-40 breaking) have fun make lots of pics

-ben

"don't let your aligator mouth overload your tweety bird ass"

I am taking that to the bars this weekend!! Too funny...

If only we were all around a campfire having a few drinks we could settle this with with my pals' strict Back Porch Rules..

1. Bare knuckle boxing...Face shots only... no rings allowed no wrestling, biting, kicking or sack grabbing - the penalty for loosing your cool and kicking etc. is one free face shot from all around the ring.. and a kick in the sack from your opponent if he feels you need it...

This is the best way to solve complicated issues. A real friend won't punch his buddy more than a few good licks square in the face and your nuts and ribs aren't sore in the morning..

I am a Buddhist at heart but sometimes you just have to have it out.

Adam... Better Check yo'self befo you reck yo'self

Big Hugs for all