Welcome to the next installment of the

Topic of the Week

Well, this would have been a better topic back in April/May, but better late than never.

You've dropped in a hot little V8. You've got an aftermarket radiator with no fan shroud. You've got that 8274 blocking half the grille.

What do you do to keep it cool?

2 vs 3 vs 4 core
Brass vs Aluminum
pusher vs puller

@$180 for an aluminum radiator I think it is $$$ well spent. Also I run the fan that pulls the most air and don't worry about the lost power it might rob. Anyway you don't want a flex fan on a Jeep that just might be doing some water X'ings or you just might be replacing the radiator again.

What dean said, and sink that 8274 and clear up most of the grill ;)

Ewww... this topic hits home, as far as I know I am the only guy to vapor lock a fuel rail in a CJ in 30 degree weather..

I run a notriously hot running 416 cubic inch SB chevy I wanted to keep the Jeep look and not cut the front end apart and remove the fenders (YET) After several failed attempts I did this, I sawzalled a 27.5x19" Griffin Alum Radiator in the grill with the stock AC evaporator and fuel cooler. I got a SPAL dual 11" electric fan setup that pulls 2800 CFM, the shroud on the fan just about covers the entire radiator lacks only 1/2" or so top and bottom, this is the key to cooling, you need a shroud the directs the air thru the entire radiator.

After I got this setup in there the cooling was pretty good but I needed better, I installed a set of louvers in the hood, very similar to the ones they put in the 5.9l Grand Cherokee's, now I am able to keep it in the 180 range even when it is pushing 100 outside. :D

my aluminum works swell - does not even need a fan at 30 mph on a 110 day climbing a hill- Jess

I run a large brass radiator with 2 puller electric fans, no inner fenders and manage to keep my 455 Buick at about 210 crawling in the Arizona heat. It usually sticks around 180-190 in the Non June - August months, or on night runs.
I went with the brass Radiator because I find it easier to do permanent repairs while on the trail, (Solders easier, or maybe I'm just used to them).
The electric fans are as close as you can get a fan to a Radiator without having to worry about a mechanical fan gouging the core, and they cover a large percentage of the radiator surface area.
I can shut them off for water crossings, mud hole runs, etc. plus, I can leave them on after the motor is off for added cooling.
The lack of inner fenders help get the heat out as well.

Originally posted by yldkat
The electric fans are as close as you can get a fan to a Radiator without having to worry about a mechanical fan gouging the core, and they cover a large percentage of the radiator surface area.
I can shut them off for water crossings, mud hole runs, etc. plus, I can leave them on after the motor is off for added cooling.

These are good points. When I shut down, I can immediately walk over to the radiator, and it'll be cool enough to touch.

Also, I spied a 74 Dodge W300 radiator in NAPA Monday that looks like it's about the same size as a CJ, fairly thick, and has the Chevy hose configuration. FYI, something to consider. (I didn't measure or have ever seen one used)

Bryan

1.) Proper mix of antifreeze and water, at the correct level, additives if you like, but used as they were designed to.

2.) Good quality cooling system parts in good condition, leave the race parts for the 1/4 mile guys, 9 times out of 10, good factory stuff is best.

3.) Good quality aluminum radiator, as big as you can fit, don't be afraid to cut and modify.

4.) Factory mechanical fan with good shroud is best, if a mechanical fan is impossible, electric puller.

5.) Skip the aftermarket bling bling electrical fan setups and find a junkyard factory electric fan off a late model car, again, factory is good.

6.) Provide addequate air flow to the radiator, try some ducting under that winch if you can't move it.

7.) Give the air someplace to go after the radiator, so more fresh air can come in, you can pass more air through a hose than a balloon.

8.) Swap out that hot V8 for a cucumber cool 4cyl :flipoff2:

If ya run in the swamps, put a piece of screen in front of the grill. When the temps start to rise, unhook the screen, clean the goo off of it, reattach it, and off ya go.

Originally posted by 66CJdean
@$180 for an aluminum radiator I think it is $$$ well spent.

Where can I get a $180 aluminum rad?

Originally posted by postal


Where can I get a $180 aluminum rad?

I got a universal alum Griffin from Jegs for about that. Works great, but needs more fan for low speeds in TX summers

A company named Northern makes a radiator in a number of different sizes in GM/Ford and Chrysler port configuration.
They are all aluminum construction, furnace brazed, 2 row 1" tubes.
They come in different widths from 21-3/8" to 30-7/8" with 1-1/2" and 1-3/4" neck sizes. I called the company and they told me as far as mounting, you could weld brackets to either tank without affecting the warr.
Their phone # is 320-235-2288 call for local dealer
These rads are not expensive at all!!

I never considered cutting out the fender wells as an option because I didnt want the tire to fling mud and rock up onto my moter. Instead I did this

Weezer....are those louvers facing forward or rearward??

heres another shot. The louvers are facing backwards to let the hot air out

well im running a hopped up 401 with a stock 6cyl cj radiator.. no problems here..
since i have a remote oil filter.. with cooler.. dual pickups.. a mechanical fan.. with shroud..
if its 90+ out.. and im running 65+ on the freeway.. itll step up to about 210... 75+ she hits 215... havent had it over 85 yet for any extended periods... but on the trail... its 180 all day long..

i also believe factory is best.. mech. fan with shroud.. does wonders.. a good oiling system is also great.. plus with the remote i dont drain oil all over my front axle...

5.0 HO engines are cool running engines as far as high performance V8 engines go, and with my cooling system, I have never had any probs.
I run an aluminum 2 core (1" tubes) radiator, with a 185 degree T stat, and 21lb cap.
The fan is 19" from a Lincoln Mark VII, with a 185 degree T stat clutch.
I run a stock Ford water pump.
The headers are heat wrapped, the fenders are opened and the hood has a large rearward facing scoop.
The fan sits about 1 1/2" from the radiator, but I do not run a cowling, (I used to, but it made no difference removing it in my case).
Since I dont have to worry about boil over, I only run enough antifreeze to keep corosion to a minimum durring the summer months.
At 80 mph running uphill, in 100 degree weather, It wont hit 200 degrees. On the trail at the hammers in the middle of summer it wont hit 190. Running the sand dunes at the hammers, or even breaking trail in heavy snow, I will go a tad over 200.

I tried a black magic fan for a V8 mustang, and it was a joke, the temp was always above 200 degrees.

Holy pressure cooker!
a 21 PSI radiator cap?
I must really be old school thinking Fords ran 13 PSI caps and GM ran 16 PSI.

Originally posted by yldkat
Holy pressure cooker!
a 21 PSI radiator cap?
I must really be old school thinking Fords ran 13 PSI caps and GM ran 16 PSI.


Yeah you really need to have a tight cooling system to run the 21 pounder.
I guess a lot of the circle track guys run em.
I got mine from Speedway.
I also carry a spare 13 psi,(the one on the overflow reservoir) in case I have to drive out on a repaired radiator.

Try to avoid using those universal flex hoses on engine swaps, they are too restrictive. A little time at the parts store will usually net you a premolded hose that will work. Do not go too low on the thermostat temp as this can let the water circulate too quickly for the radiator to cool. And be environmentally friendly and run a sealed system with a burp tank.

Ive got a hot 400sbc (60 over, yuk!), 10.5:1 pistons, TBI. I run a griffin, mech fan with no clutch. when the hell am I going to buzz 7000 rpm anyway. Im plenty cold on the trail, but when I git it on the stupid pedal, she will climb to 220 or so...takes FOREVER to come back down. I may add a little pusher fan, and a fan shroud for the mech fan. The bigger problem is keeping that damn th350 cool...

1988 350 SBC, 4 core copper radiator, modified stock Jeep fan shrud (cutted to fit), stock AMC 258 7 blade fan, NO trouble at all !!! :D :D

454, TH350 in YJ with external trans cooler, Lincoln fan module, puller (cut in 1/2) no mechanical fan, Northern aluminum 2 row, no shroud, off road--bolt on pusher fan (Aries K car) over grille, on road 210* all the time, off road 220*-230* without 2nd fan, with 2nd fan 205* off road

i run a 4 row brass radiator for a cj with a dual 11" SPAL fan setup. i have no cooling issues with my 99 vortec 350. if it is 100+ it'll see 210 max.

I could be wrong, but I always thought regular radiators were made out of Brass, copper would corrode too quick. The fins that are on the outside of the tubes may be copper, could this be where the confusion is coming from?
:confused:

hell i run a 25lb cap and a custom 4 row that my buddy made (owns a rad shop) with a 17" IMCA (good up to 9000 rpm) fixed blade fan with a custom shroud. that fan will pull small birds into the grill:D runs 200 no matter what.

Chris G.

Originally posted by Chrisjeep7
hell i run a 25lb cap and a custom 4 row that my buddy made (owns a rad shop) with a 17" IMCA (good up to 9000 rpm) fixed blade fan with a custom shroud. that fan will pull small birds into the grill:D runs 200 no matter what.

Chris G.


Chris,
What engine and tranny are you running?
I deffinitely appreciate the cooling advantages of running high pressure caps(read high pressure system), but because I have almost no problem with overheating, I have never considered running a high velocity fixed fan blade. The thought of the potential havoc of doing a water crossing, deep enough to capture the fan, makes me cringe.
I have experimented with how much resistance it takes to stall a T stat cluth fan (using a rope wrapped around the fan shaft, and a new aftermarket Empire[Kragens brand] 185 deg clutch), and it is actually very easy to stall them out,...so Im not worried about water crossoings with the T stat clutch, and the 19" Lincoln Blade.
But for high rev sand dune running and even deep snow runs, I would definitely consider swapping a high volume straight blade fan to keep my temps below 200, if it really makes a difference,......[thinking to myself],..it really has to make a difference, moving that much air,.. I need to do some testing.
Where can I get a good high speed fan?
Do they make 19" versions?
Do they have different blade pitches, for volume choices?
What is a good brand?
What is the best material?
How much are they$$ ?

Thanks
Jeff Huelsman

H8Monday wrote:
"Where can I get a good high speed fan?
Do they make 19" versions?
Do they have different blade pitches, for volume choices?
What is a good brand?
What is the best material?
How much are they$$ ?"

Is an electric fan totally out of the question? Your engine set-up is similar to mine, and I'm running an eighteen inch electric fan out of a Lincoln Mark VIII. It's rated for around 3300 CFM I think, and it'll suck a golf ball through a garden hose. :D
The temp runs about 180 offroad and 190 on the highway. I bought mine at a local Mustang performance shop, http://houstonperformance.com for $129 and wired it in following most of these instructions and parts list: http://www.geocities.com/smithmonte/Auto/MarkVIII_Fan.htm

Dean

well h8 i dont know what to tell you...i got mine from a buddy. it came straigt off his IMCA race car. i will take some pics and try to see if that will help or if there is a brand name on it. as far how much air this thing moves....HA...you would have to see it to belive it! at hight RPM that thing moves some serous air! all you can here is the fan...

i dont do may water crossings so i never thought about it...

i run a AMC 360 with a TF727...if you know AMC motors you know they run hot! i also have a clutch fan i guess i could run it and see if there is a huge diff?

see if this helps.
Chris G.

o and they are cheap! look around some junk yards for them. i have seen then on E2## vans with 302's and 351's.

Another way to get the engine to cool off is just turn on your heater.
I would suggest putting it on the middle setting and put the vents towards the open windows.
When I was driving 75 and my engine started running at about 220-230 I got it quickly cooled down to normal using that technique. I was lucky to have the top off.
I know it is temporary but it works.
Just my 2 cents.

Originally posted by yldkat
I could be wrong, but I always thought regular radiators were made out of Brass, copper would corrode too quick. The fins that are on the outside of the tubes may be copper, could this be where the confusion is coming from?
:confused:

y'er right - brain farted

A pressure building radiator cap is used to increase the boiling point of the water/glycol mixture.
For every pound of pressure applied it increases the boiling point by three degrees. So if we have a fifteen pound radiator cap then we increase the boiling point of our glycol mixture by forty-five degrees Fahrenheit.
Remember you must have a cooling system that can handle the increase in pressure without blowing hoses, radiator tubes, or gaskets ect.
I use a shroud from a car and a Wagoneer clutch fan and my 360 rarely moves the gauge over the thermostst rating.
The rule of thumb for fan tip shroud insertion is 2/3 in 1/3 out and clearance is 1/4"-1/2" tip clearance.

A few months ago I did some testing, comparing the Stock Fan/Clutch on my 97 TJ Modified 4.0L coolant temp performance to that of a Flex-a-lite 475 Electric fan.

While not scientific I did use top quality Automotive Lab equipment to record these results.

If anyone has an interest in seeing the results in this particular scenario they can be found in this post.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=69200&highlight=Fan

Frank

I'm not sure how I missed this thread, but I'm contemplating what to do on my CJ-3A. I have approximately 2 5/8" between the water pump pully and the radiator. I would like to run a clutch fan, but don't think I have the room. Are there any out there that are compact enough to fit in that space?

In any case, I will probably end up building a shroud out of sheet metal. I was thinking about designing a ring inside of it to protect the radiator from the fan being pulled into it during a water crossing. I was thinking a 1 in. wide ring that would contact the tips of the fan in case it were to get pulled in. Any comments on that idea?

I run Be-Cool, fan shroud, mechanical fan, 50/50 mix, Redline water wetter for 383 LT-4. Cools real good.

i dont think its been mentioned on this thread yet, but i could have sworn i heard someone preaching ford taurus electrical fans, and/or pontiac (not sure on model) electrical fans, and said that they pull a huge amount of CFM.

anybody know the details on those?
i need to get a dual electric fan setup, and if i can do it cheaper and just as effectively as the flexalite or whoevers aftermarkets, it would probably save a few bucks to go that way
~John

so im having cooling problems with a stck xj ... i put a new rad, t-stat, t-stat housing(t-city), water pump. I was think that it would b cool to take out the fan and fan clutch and replace it with a e-fan link on the driver side, could a drivers side fan fit on the pas side?

so im having cooling problems with a stck xj ... i put a new rad, t-stat, t-stat housing(t-city), water pump. I was think that it would b cool to take out the fan and fan clutch and replace it with a e-fan link on the driver side, could a drivers side fan fit on the pas side?
After you've made sure it's not a headgasket problem, and btw they don't always present with obvious signs of coolant in oil and vice versa. But how hot are you getting? I've heard guys say 210 is too hot but that's normal for an XJ.

fans off the old ford taurus' kick ass. i think its something like 3000 cfm and dirt cheap. good electric replacement for a mechanical fan

Ford 8C607 fan. It comes in the 90 to 95 Ford Taurus and Lincoln Mark VIII with the 3.8 litre engine.

I wouldnt recommend the ford taurus fan....I have read that it pulls over 100 amps at startup. I installed one on my 351w powered cj and had to perform numerous other upgrades to compensate for the huge power draw off of that fan....finally went back to direct drive mechanical fan....I tried the taurus fan for two years until it became more trouble than it was worth...it does pull huge air...but it also pulls huge amps, I upgraded to a 135 gm alternator and had to run massive relays to run it.

Radiator tech jeep CJ.... just a little more info.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=250185

Engine fan:
For engine fans that fit the stock shroud and suck lots of air.

1. early 1970s - late 1970s Cadillac eldorado and others running 472s and 500's came with an 18" in diameter and 3-1/4" high pitch 7 blade fan
2. also there is the 1981-1986 Cadillac with the 4.1L v8 it is 7 blade an 18 inches in diameter also with similar pitch right at 3" -3-1/8" and moves a lot of air. It is unique in that it as a reverse bend on the top of the blades easy to spot.

I picked up one of each for $5 a piece from pick and pull so $10 total they both seem to pull the same amount of air. pretty incredible difference.

Fan Clutch:
For the fan clutch I used a Hayden Severe duty fan clutch #2797 (buick with the diesel in the early 80's on some models like napa i had to notch the holes just a smidge to clear the bolts into the water pump but on a summit model i didn't, it was slotted deeper with universal slots). $48.79 from my local napa

For Shroud:
Stock CJ7 V8 shroud (stock no cost)

For Radiator:
For an aluminium bolt in radiator i so far have only found 1 that is really a bolt in dont change anything else option. Everything else is cross flow and requires a different shroud and radiator hoses which is fine but i didnt want to spend booko bucks and change too much at once.
Go to ebay type in "3 row aluminium jeep radiator" up will pop 20 adds for a down flow design radiator made by champion radiators. it bolts in, it fits and it cools better than the extreme 4 core radiator i got from extreme radiators. I paid $139+ $30 shipping it has 3 rows of 5/8" cores. a little less than the 2 1" cores of many of the cross flow radiators but it seems to be doing the job so far.

For a thermostat:
Combined with a 180 mr gasket or robert shaw high flow thermostat $14.21

For coolant:
I run 30% dextron synthetic coolant and 70% Distilled water with 1 bottle of water wetter $32.87

Water pump:
Flow cooler water pump $89.95 (i already had one since my old water pump puked i did not include this in total price since most guys i know have em already on their jeeps)



Few details on the jeep. CJ 7 mildly warmed 401, t18 D300 4.5" spring lift, 35's, 8274 winch and winch plate in front, 1" body lift.

I have a 1" body lift which put the stock 7 blade 17" fan right close to the shroud. To clear a bigger fan and to help with geometry when lifting the tranny I moved the MORE motor mounts up and that created ample room clear the 18" fan in stock shroud. Since i was going for a flat belly pan with my clocked dana 300 things needed to be shifted little any ways i re=drilled the more mounts 7/8" up and 3/8" for ward sliding the motor slightly ahead helped with valve cover clearance at the fire wall, moving it up allows you to continue using the stock radiator shroud. I only re drilled one hole, lifted the motor up slid two bolts in (one from each side) and then proceeded to drill out the other 5 holes. you will only be able to use 5 bolts the 6th hole is too close and wont clear a nut. i reused the factory frame cross bar on the lower holes. also much over 7/8" will not give you enough material to bolt to on the bottom 2 or 3 holes. FYI My flat belly pan is actually 5/8" below my frame but that is fine for what i wanted.


Tests so far:
In my garage with no air flow at 94 outside degrees and inside 95+ degrees with the jeep running for 30+ minutes or longer heating up the garage, front of the jeep facing the rear wall and 2' away from the wall. the jeep at idle does not get past 195-200 degrees idling and being rev'd for an hour at a time dialing in the idling characteristics of the TBI it still did not climb over 200, sustained 2000-2500 rpm in the garage for 10+ minutes it saw 210 then crept back to 200. it used to clear 220-230 no problems idling and at highway speeds used to hoover at 215-220. driving around in 95 degree weather never saw over 205 even on the highway around on city street maintains 195-200




As a side note:
I also changed to a high zinc full synthetic motor oil 20/50 and found i did shed another 5+ degrees in engine temps at highway speeds and it looks like i may have dropped some temps in lower situations also not much but noticeable. I run a 20/50 around here even in my fresh motor summer time we regularly see 90-100+ days on the trail and around town. with 10/30 or 15/40 my idle oil pressure drops down to 12-15 psi at 200 + degrees.

http://i37.tinypic.com/6o1ibo.jpg
http://i39.tinypic.com/2q3umgh.jpg

When I put a bigger cam in my 318 it made a lot more heat so I got rid of the anti-freeze and used water and anti-rust. Water removes much more heat than anti-freeze.

I never considered cutting out the fender wells as an option because I didnt want the tire to fling mud and rock up onto my moter. Instead I did this

How did this work for you? ....I'm going to be doing the same thing but just the top.Did you notice the difference in temp or did you do it along with other mods?