do you think a rig with an 80" wheelbase, a decently flexy suspension, 283 small block, weak axles, and 32s could run it? i say no way, but the guy with the rig says yeah. opinions?

not likley without winching over most obstacales

Hmm, I don't see how, it gave me trouble in spots but small size would be change things and offer other lines. I would love to see him try, as long as I could just walk out when the got hopelessly marooned (let someone else drag his but out :D ).

On thing, some of the guys there said that a couple of Samis similar to your description had tip-toed through relatively easily a couple of weeks before I ran it. Of course, you know how those stories go…

At 84" with 33's on my Sami I made it thru just fine. Just as long as he is not too fond of his sheet metal. Without the cage I would have gotten some rock rash.

The entrance is the worst part.... Of course, a winch is required for the waterfall at the end.

is he locked?

Originally posted by okcrawler
At 84" with 33's on my Sami I made it thru just fine. Just as long as he is not too fond of his sheet metal. Without the cage I would have gotten some rock rash.

The entrance is the worst part.... Of course, a winch is required for the waterfall at the end.
Just curious but, you say the entrance was the worst part. I would have thought the 3rd obstacle would be tough on a Sami what with break-over rock bounded on both sides by rocks nearly half the size of a Sami. Must be a short/narrow line I missed. For my rig combined with my relative lack of skill (still new to serious rock crawling), the first 2 obstacles were fairly easy. The 3rd certainly gave me the most trouble...

I ran it last week, so it's still fresh in the 'ol brain. I don't think it's worth the time and effort (you will spend alot of both) to take the rig in question. You could probably make it through eventually, but it would be an embarassing achievement. I don't have a problem with the wheelbase, but the rest of the rig sounds as though it's lacking. With the right rig, you can be done with this trail in 20 to 30 minutes, unless your cheap beadlock rims decide to leak. :rolleyes:

Ok crawler is correct I spotted him through.

I would say you could make it through with that rig fairly easily. Upper Helldorado is ALL about wheelbase. The shorter the better. with an 80 inch wheelbase you will make it through just fine. I have watched many Sammies on 31s walk through easily while Jeeps on 36s and 38s got hung up and stuck. As mentioned earlier, he will need a winch for at least the last obstacle, and possibly the third.

okcrawler, a :beer: for you...It's refreshing to see someone bring some reality to the table. A good driver/spotter, and a rig that works can do wonders...Even without the Huge tires, 1 ton axles, wheelbase of a school bus, and all of the other "trends" that some think you must have to be "hardcore"...

Yes you could get it through but should you? No. I hate to see people change the trail by stacking and moving rocks to get ill equipped rigs through. Some of us want to keep the hard trails hard and not have everone paved for access to nearly stock sized tires.

Go have fun on lower hell, it will be a lot of fun. If you try upper, and you find you can't do it without stacking rocks, please take the exit (right after the first climb) and leave the trail unmolested.

If you make it with out a bunch of paving, good for you, just please don't change the trail!

Originally posted by DM
okcrawler, a :beer: for you...It's refreshing to see someone bring some reality to the table. A good driver/spotter, and a rig that works can do wonders...Even without the Huge tires, 1 ton axles, wheelbase of a school bus, and all of the other "trends" that some think you must have to be "hardcore"...

The fact that someone would "knowingly" take an under equipped rig on such a trail is asking for problems. Sure, you may be able to get it through, but it could very well turn ugly. I don't see myself as "hardcore", but I do have a vehicle that I feel is capable enough for this trail and nobody has to debate that on a BBS. I still stand by my original opinion.

well i am leaving tommorow for moab,should i try it in my toy.
i have the wider rear end with spacers on front
spool rear locker front
4 to 1 gearset in t-case
8274 winch
35x14 gumbo mudders
i do not have my bed bobbed,but i cut the bottom panels off and not worred about body damage.but i don't won't to roll because i have no cage and want to keep my windshield.i will try some of the easy trials on sat.if they seam easy then sun i might try upper...

I think with those tires you will be ok, bring spare axles. Must have winch for last climb. You will dent the driver side cab or bed, your choice depending on the line you take. Have fun and show us your new dent when you get back!

Originally posted by Bill Collins
well i am leaving tommorow for moab,should i try it in my toy.
i have the wider rear end with spacers on front
spool rear locker front
4 to 1 gearset in t-case
8274 winch
35x14 gumbo mudders
i do not have my bed bobbed,but i cut the bottom panels off and not worred about body damage.but i don't won't to roll because i have no cage and want to keep my windshield.i will try some of the easy trials on sat.if they seam easy then sun i might try upper...

you'll be fine, like chris said. do lower and if it seems kinda easy, head for the ups, but always walk the thing first. have fun--brad

And if lower seems easy, then right before the climb out, there is a nice fun line waaay off to the left side that is harder than anything in Upper, except the exit waterfall.
Yo Moab Austin! You ever get those pics back?

Originally posted by Bill Collins
well i am leaving tommorow for moab,should i try it in my toy.


Simply hike up the trail a bit. It'll only take a couple minutes to check it out.

Absolutely. He is a great driver. The vehicle is a Land Rover. He has done a lot of the trail. I got a case of beer Adam saying that he goes through no problem.

Way

Originally posted by Slagburn
And if lower seems easy, then right before the climb out, there is a nice fun line waaay off to the left side that is harder than anything in Upper, except the exit waterfall.
Yo Moab Austin! You ever get those pics back?

uhm....oh crap I am so behind and confused always?????

whick pics?


also you coming down this weekend?
(a couple locals will go out on saturday.....meet city markup)

ok,i will be there with rockbiter,2-stroke,zukster and who ever else shows up.i don't care about body damage as long as i can save the windshield.the winters are wet and sometimes cold here.i also have my cousin riding shotgun and toting my wifes new camera,but it is not digital so she will have to scan them and i have to get my red star...

thanks for all the directoins,it is my first time to moab and i will have fun no matter what happens to my truck:D

Originally posted by Vonski


The fact that someone would "knowingly" take an under equipped rig on such a trail is asking for problems. Sure, you may be able to get it through, but it could very well turn ugly. I don't see myself as "hardcore", but I do have a vehicle that I feel is capable enough for this trail and nobody has to debate that on a BBS. I still stand by my original opinion.

My response was to okcrawler, I never said anything about "knowingly" taking an under equipped rig on such a trail. I have no idea if the "guy" that Adam G. refers to could make it without seeing him in action...Kind of a pointless debate IMO, that's why I didn't bother replying to THAT question...Anyway, back on the subject, I think everyone should know what they are realistically capable of. If you're prepared, run with a knowledgable group, and have a good spotter, go for it. If you knowingly bite off more than you can chew-It's off to the school of hard knocks....:D :D

Ok you pussies, how many of you have climbed 'upper's last waterfall without a cable. I couldn't believe it when I saw on the cover of JP mag. someone actually doing it! Damn!:eek:

Originally posted by JR
Ok you pussies, how many of you have climbed 'upper's last waterfall without a cable. I couldn't believe it when I saw on the cover of JP mag. someone actually doing it! Damn!:eek:

From what I heard, at EJS Brent took his 8 tired orange zuk up without using a winch. Only a strap with a couple people holding onto it.

I've never been there. Is this the waterfall?
http://www.trailtough.com/images/mb6.jpg

That's it...

Originally posted by Slagburn
And if lower seems easy, then right before the climb out, there is a nice fun line waaay off to the left side that is harder than anything in Upper, except the exit waterfall.
Yo Moab Austin! You ever get those pics back?

Yes that's a fun one....

Here is a couple shots from the optional end of lower hell.

http://66.12.181.251/2002moab/9284.jpg

http://66.12.181.251/2002moab/9285.jpg

Originally posted by DM


My response was to okcrawler, I never said anything about "knowingly" taking an under equipped rig on such a trail. I have no idea if the "guy" that Adam G. refers to could make it without seeing him in action...Kind of a pointless debate IMO, that's why I didn't bother replying to THAT question...Anyway, back on the subject, I think everyone should know what they are realistically capable of. If you're prepared, run with a knowledgable group, and have a good spotter, go for it. If you knowingly bite off more than you can chew-It's off to the school of hard knocks....:D :D

I agree, well said... I was in Moab last week and had to perform a little search and rescue mission in the rain to recover a busted up Blazer and the kid driving it. He got in waaaaaaaay over his head. It was successful, but it sucked!

So if this 'guy' is such a great driver, why the faaak haven't we heard about him before?

Where's the magazine coverage?

Why doesn't he run RCAA? UROC?

Is he famous?

Sounds like a poser to me.

I'll bet he can make it.

I've heard he's a cocky bastard:flipoff2:

Originally posted by Bill Collins
ok,i will be there with rockbiter,2-stroke,zukster and who ever else shows up.i don't care about body damage as long as i can save the windshield.the winters are wet and sometimes cold here.i also have my cousin riding shotgun and toting my wifes new camera,but it is not digital so she will have to scan them and i have to get my red star...

thanks for all the directoins,it is my first time to moab and i will have fun no matter what happens to my truck:D

I will be at City Market shortly before 8AM Saturday to run first Lower then Upper, should have no problems doing both.
Jeremy

Originally posted by BadDog

Just curious but, you say the entrance was the worst part. I would have thought the 3rd obstacle would be tough on a Sami what with break-over rock bounded on both sides by rocks nearly half the size of a Sami. ....

I was a little to narrow to stradle the crack on the entrance section. I ended up falling down into it, and coming out on my side (as the pic showed). But, that was the only real vertical section (short of the waterfall), so the short wheelbase and narrow width helped navigate the tight sections. I don't remember having any special problem getting over the big bolder. We did have to work it a bit as I recall, but no outside assistance was required. I doubt it took more than 20min for me to run it (including winch time).

I consider the trail more of a metal basher. I know the WMS guys drove their 120+" wheelbase trucks over the waterfall, but to see that Brent did it is impressive!

Yes Vonski - Given it has a rugged entrance and exit, it's a bad trail to break on. If there is any doubt as to the vehicles durability, it would be better to stay out. But, that decision us up to the owner and the buddies that would have to drag his @ss out! :)

I did not take your comments personally. Those that know me and my vehicle, know we are capable and VERY dependable. I work hard to keep it that way! I also don't enjoy dragging out other peoples junk just because they wanted to try, knowing full well their vehicle was ill equipted for the trail or more often just poorly prepaired. But, we've all been there at some point in this hobby. It's part of learning your limits. Just as long as it does not happen EVERY outing...

Originally posted by JR
Ok you pussies, how many of you have climbed 'upper's last waterfall without a cable. I couldn't believe it when I saw on the cover of JP mag. someone actually doing it! Damn!:eek:


I don't know why this is impressive, any Sammy can climb that with a human winch attached :rolleyes: I will give Brent credit for having the cajones to put his life in the hands of a couple guys.....