Tech's been lacking today, so let's kick off a debate.

Which one is more likely to cause damage? To date, I've been lucky, one chewed up stub, rear d-line, tore up motor mount, and some front d-line damage.

Does the auto give you a cushion effect, or is the control of a manual less likely to cause damage.

Bring it :flipoff2:

I can't believe we're going to do this again:rolleyes: Of course, a manual is better :flipoff2:

manual all the way, fewer things to go boom.

I think the question was DAMAGE, not which was better.
The big rockcrawling events are seeing more and more auto's, so that pretty much answers the which rockcrawls better question.

On the damage question, with the Auto, you can sneak up on an obstacle, then use only the minimum rpm's necessary to climb it. Much harder to do that with a stick, not impossible, just more difficult.

For that reason, auto's are easier on drivetrain components.

I've never overheated my T19 and killed it.

I've never broken the T19 case, like I have a 727.

Never broken a T19 to D20 adapter, though I did strip one bolt out. Can't say that for 727 adapters.

I can get wicked wheel-hop with the T19. Then again, *MY* 727 makes wicked wheel-hop, too. :D

I haven't broken any (knock on wood) axles n' such (aside from the one I broke in half) with the slushbox.. but then I only run 31x15.50s on it, and open diffs.

shredded two front axle shaft assemblies, two rear axle shafts, one rear spring, two rear spring perches, one Lockright, 3 locking hubs, one Dana 20, a three tranny mount bushings, two driveshafts, and more than a few U-joints with the T19.

My EB friends seem to break less stuff with NP435s than they did with C4s. Lots of driving backwards home 20miles with the C4 - when it would still move.

A lot more broken axles with the slushbox, too. I think it had to do with the auto shifting when he didn't want it to and breaking stuff.

Say, 5000rpm with the 351W and then it suddenly upshifts / grabs.

Oh yeah.. I don't have a scatter shield on my T19, but there's one on the 727.. what's that say? :D

Originally posted by Hooper
I think the question was DAMAGE, not which was better.
The big rockcrawling events are seeing more and more auto's, so that pretty much answers the which rockcrawls better question.


Yep, hands-down a slushbox is better for rock-racing.

That's about all that answers. :flipoff2:


On the damage question, with the Auto, you can sneak up on an obstacle, then use only the minimum rpm's necessary to climb it. Much harder to do that with a stick, not impossible, just more difficult.


Hmmm.. I like how I can race up to an obstacle turning 5000rpm in low gear, lift on the gas, darn near stopping immediately, then blip the throttle at around 1000rpm to crawl up an obstacle with my stick.

My slushbox just "stalls" and then leaps.

To be fair, it's the converter. :D My mom happened to watch me load the racer up before the last race.. and said something about how I basically "jump" onto the trailer. Takes a little RPM to get it to climb over the fenders and when the converter finally does hook up, it LEAPS.

OK, so what if I had a stock converter.. well, when we tried to pull the Scout back off the trailer, I had my sister in my auto equipped 392 Travelall trying to pull the Scout over the ramps and back off.

I had a floor jack under the front axle to help it get up over the hump easier..

She had the throttle to the floor, and the 392 wouldn't rev up enough to make sufficient power to pull the Scout - the converter was at max-slippage though, just not enough umph.

So much for the vaunted "2x gearing effect" of an auto.. I know my 2bbl T19 Scout wouldn't have had a problem.

Shoulda put it in low range.. but since it's such a PITA to shift.. I just had her pull forward a little, then use a little momentum.. :D

Originally posted by Hooper
I think the question was DAMAGE, not which was better.
The big rockcrawling events are seeing more and more auto's, so that pretty much answers the which rockcrawls better question.

On the damage question, with the Auto, you can sneak up on an obstacle, then use only the minimum rpm's necessary to climb it. Much harder to do that with a stick, not impossible, just more difficult.

For that reason, auto's are easier on drivetrain components.

Hoop, Toe 'n Heel pedels.
almost as good as having three right feet :flipoff2:

Originally posted by Matthew S. O'Bryan


Hoop, Toe 'n Heel pedels.
almost as good as having three right feet :flipoff2:

You assume I have sufficient coordination to do that.....

An incorrect assumption.

I wheel an auto cuz I am not talented enough to drive a stick.

My scout always was a auto and probably always will be so I can't compare the breakage thing.
Will say my auto will do anything any of your sticks can do only with one less pedal.:flipoff2:

Originally posted by Hooper
I think the question was DAMAGE, not which was better.
The big rockcrawling events are seeing more and more auto's, so that pretty much answers the which rockcrawls better question.

On the damage question, with the Auto, you can sneak up on an obstacle, then use only the minimum rpm's necessary to climb it. Much harder to do that with a stick, not impossible, just more difficult.

For that reason, auto's are easier on drivetrain components.

I guess I should have read the post closer:rolleyes:

First off, I've never owned a wheeler with an auto but my daughters Scout has one and here's my take on the manual vs. auto thing- with stock gears in the t/case, the manual is hands down easier on parts! With 70:1 gearing on 36's, my EB can idle up to an obsticle, torque to the top and creep down the back side. The drivetrain remains loaded and it's sooth and easy. On the same obticle, my daughter has to rev her Scout until it has enough power to jump to the top of the rock and usually slam to the bottom because she didn't get on the breaks soon enough.

Now, if you put some deep gears in the t/case, the auto I've seen work great. Kinda like a manual ;)

In either case, if you can keep the drivetrain loaded, your parts will last a lot longer than if you're constantly gettin on and off the gas!

Originally posted by Scoutaholic
My scout always was a auto and probably always will be so I can't compare the breakage thing.
Will say my auto will do anything any of your sticks can do only with one less pedal.:flipoff2:

HMMM.. you have ProJection, right, Rick?

how about you and Caine flip your rigs upside down and leave 'em in gear and see if his T19 still turns the tires, and if your 727 will?

Of course, this isn't all that good for your motor I guess... :D

Originally posted by Hooper


I wheel an auto cuz I am not talented enough to drive a stick.

THAT explains a great deal.

learn to wheel a stick, then you'll start to see the benifits of R/S as well :evil:

seriously, heel 'n toeing lets you do a great deal more with a manual than you can with a auto.

You can steer, slip the clutch, release the brake, punch the gas, and still have one hand free to hold your :beer: (or be ready to speed-shift into 2nd.)

Yes, I am that co-ordinated behind the wheel. I used to drive a 4x4 (tranny) transtar.

Matt

Typically, auto slow up, fast over. Manual fast up, slow over. With low gearing an auto can generate plenty of torque, more then engough to blow up sheet when it's bound up.

Tom, I don't know about the C4 problem with it switching gears, when my 727 is in a gear it stays. I can see a big :nuke: if the auto decides to up shift

Originally posted by jdjanda
Typically, auto slow up, fast over. Manual fast up, slow over. With low gearing an auto can generate plenty of torque, more then engough to blow up sheet when it's bound up.


That's what I'm talking about, with your 4:1 D300 t/case, you (and your wife;) ) can crawl up with very little throttle. Nice and smooth:)

Originally posted by jdjanda
Typically, auto slow up, fast over. Manual fast up, slow over. With low gearing an auto can generate plenty of torque, more then engough to blow up sheet when it's bound up.

Tom, I don't know about the C4 problem with it switching gears, when my 727 is in a gear it stays. I can see a big :nuke: if the auto decides to up shift

That's why I made sure to say "C4".. my 727s seem to stay put, too - even the ones w/o the manual valvebody. :D

Well, the T'all has a hard time locking in LOW since the shifter needs adjusted. And auto shifting from 1st to 2nd, even in low-range, screwed me up a few times last winter in the snow - it would upshift on me and then I'd lose power and forward progress would halt again.

No :bomb: though.

Originally posted by Rubicrawler


I guess I should have read the post closer:rolleyes:

First off, I've never owned a wheeler with an auto but my daughters Scout has one and here's my take on the manual vs. auto thing- with stock gears in the t/case, the manual is hands down easier on parts! With 70:1 gearing on 36's, my EB can idle up to an obsticle, torque to the top and creep down the back side. The drivetrain remains loaded and it's sooth and easy. On the same obticle, my daughter has to rev her Scout until it has enough power to jump to the top of the rock and usually slam to the bottom because she didn't get on the breaks soon enough.

Now, if you put some deep gears in the t/case, the auto I've seen work great. Kinda like a manual ;)

In either case, if you can keep the drivetrain loaded, your parts will last a lot longer than if you're constantly gettin on and off the gas!


How about apples to apples. What you just talked about is all about gears, not trannies. Like saying a manual is better because your manual with 42's can outwheel a stock scout with an auto tranny. Apples and oranges.

But you already know that.

Originally posted by Rubicrawler


That's what I'm talking about, with your 4:1 D300 t/case, you (and your wife;) ) can crawl up with very little throttle. Nice and smooth:)

Best $800 I've spent, now I need to "bolt in" the 4.56's

Originally posted by tsm1mt


HMMM.. you have ProJection, right, Rick?

how about you and Caine flip your rigs upside down and leave 'em in gear and see if his T19 still turns the tires, and if your 727 will?

Of course, this isn't all that good for your motor I guess... :D
Might just do that. CALROCS is coming up soon.;)
Yes I have Projection. Besides what good is a tire spinning when you on your lid?:(

Originally posted by Hooper



How about apples to apples. What you just talked about is all about gears, not trannies.

OK, as close as I can get.

"Tigger" at the time, a built 345/WideT19/4.09 gears, Dana 20, 33x12.50s.

BUGM - stock 392, 727, NP205, 3.73 gears, *SAME SET OF 33x12.50s*

Gearing is pretty darn close at the axle - 3.73 vs 4.09s, and the Travelall gets the 392.

Of course, the T19 is 6.32:1, and the 727 is close to 2.5:1.. but then there's that 2:1 converter advantage.. right? :rolleyes:

Having wheeled both...

The stick crawls rocks more "fluidly" than the auto with less throttle manipulation.

The stick crawls on the snow slower and smoother than the auto, tho' the auto does well once you re-learn how to snow-wheel.

The stick has more power available, while the auto rig feels sluggish even in low.

The stick rig really will IDLE up the trail - I can get out and walk alongside.

The auto rig will IDLE on the trail just fine - but it won't MOVE at idle on the trail (we're talking a little snow - something other than dry pavement mall parking lots). I can leave the T'all in gear, get out, shovel the snow out of the way, get back in, and THEN realize it's still in gear.

So, given the Travelall won't even move at 700rpm, while the Scout will lope along at 500rpm, the Scout can go slower, which usually results in less mistakes, less breakage, and requiring less gears to go the same "road speed"

OTOH, I don't have to remember to push the clutch in when the Travelall stops.

The 4spd is easier to "rock" up an obstacle if I need to - ease off clutch and let it climb a bit, ease pedal to the floor and let it rock backwards, then ease back off the pedal.

Auto doesn't work quite so nicely, and the CLUNK/BANG of shifting from R to D and back scares me. :D

I'm going slush box all the way, low stall torque converter is a must, slows down the heat up prob. the stick is nice, but causes more breakage i think, :D

258, weber carb, headers, t19 wide, d20 tera low, custom High torqe starter, 4.56 and35's. I start the truck in gear and it chugs along. If it does happen to die, I just hit the ignition and the starter pulls me over anything, Do that with an auto. But I do believe that you have more brakeage with a stick than an auto. But I would not trade the reliability and control of a stick.

I have an auto we will see this wekend.

I have a manual.... and yes we will see this weekend.:D

Fawk!!!! I can't wait! Scouts.... Gettin it!!! :eek:

well what if ya slap in a low stall tourqu coverter with my th400 I plan on looking for a dieslel converter :smokin:

I think the fluid coupler of an auto makes thinks lots easier on the drivetrain. The locker in the rear doesn't act as bad as with a stick and its easier to climb.

The only thing I have broke so far it a couple of front driveshafts that my auto twisted in two...:D

Auto's are definately easier on the drivetrain...

I see to many manual's breaking u-joints and axles....but I did see a guy with a 6cyl Jeep and an auto with 39" boggers snap a rear 60 shaft and a guy with a 4 cly manual snap a rear 14 bolt shaft in the same place.....overall the auto has to be easier...less shock to the hard parts.

You guys have fun this weekend.

I think the auto has a certain cushioning effect, but in the hands of an experienced driver, the T-19 is just as easy.

One of the things I really prefer with the stick, is the compression braking effect going down long steep hills... Easier on the brakes, and gives a bit more control. More control=less breakage.

Although a stick driven by someone with a heavy right foot will break just about every drivetrain componant between the engine and the tires.

How many of you stick guys have wheeled with a low geared auto? The switch to 4:1 gears made a huge difference. Compression braking down a hill is now an option, albeit not as effective as a manual.

Originally posted by jdjanda
How many of you stick guys have wheeled with a low geared auto? The switch to 4:1 gears made a huge difference. Compression braking down a hill is now an option, albeit not as effective as a manual.

Only a little "wheelin'" in Little Devil.. but compression braking hasn't been a problem.

No 4-1 t'case, but 4.88s and 31s. :D

When I was driving it to work for a while I had the old semi-manual valve body and had the kickdown wired back for hard shifts (which were always at full throttle anyhow).

When I'd approach a stop sign and start slowing down, it would downshift (automatically) hard enough to chirp the rear tires. :D

And going down a hill locked in low it's almost as good as my T19.

I think if you throw enough money at it, an auto can perform just like a stick, without the extra pedal. But it's still stuck in the 3.x:1 low gear.

nope, never compared apples-to-apples with a stick VS auto.... damn near impossable.


I see advantages in both, personaly prefer the manual, for many of the reasons above, but I belive that it allows "SMOOTHER" wheeling, crawling around with the engine, rather than off and on the brake and gas to creap along a boulder field. However, throw gears into the equation with an auto, and you leavel the field a bit.


Also depends on what you have always used, Hoop had always driven an auto, so he knows how to control it for HIS use, I hate autos on the trail, mostly cause I'm not used to one, and don't know how to control it. but I'll stick with my manual as long as my legs hold out....





Course, that is not the subject of this thread, which BREAKS more stuff..... well, first reaction is the Manual, the potentioal for "shock" loading of the to drivetrain is much greater, slush boxes are just that, soft and cushy, less shock.

HOWEVER, to date I have broke 1-rear d-shaft (stupid foot and dented shaft), 2 front d-shafts (same one rewelded, small stock POS, broke at the weld), and one front (D30) carrier (well, actually 2 sets of gears, but the second one a swear was flawed, 1/2 a run with my new 33's). The first D30 was with 32 AT's, 3.31's, open diffs, t-18/D20... comming out of a sandy gulley with the right foot.... And one set of rear springs (SOA rear, 3-leaf)

Since I went 4.10 44's F&R, with the 33's, and much more rock crawling, wide ratio and D300... haven't broken a thing (yet), even with the new(er) welded rear dif.


Now Hoop... with his Auto, has busted hubs, stubs, autos, motors, spat out shafts............... :flipoff2:


The springs on my case were an almost direct resault of the manual, hitting a slippery rock (ice) with lots of clutch and gas..... and axle wrap :D

4-leaves in the back is a much better idea...

Ive got a manual, breakage includes blowing up the orginal dana 35, 2 broken u joints.Lots of other little things but thats just a given. Im only running 33's but the body damage shows it plays in the rough.:D

Stick does more damage...

A properly built auto works wonders ....

Originally posted by Snoopy
Stick does more damage...

A properly built auto works wonders ....

The stick only does more damage because it doesn't waste half the engine output in the tranny - it puts it to the ground! :flipoff2:

Here's the straight scoop.

A stick breaks other parts.

An auto breaks.



There are advantages and disadvantages to both. An auto will rockcrawl better. It's more consistant in drag racing and its easier to tow with.

I'll stick with my stick in all four of my trucks.:D

Originally posted by scoutver5.7
its easier to tow with.



I'm not sure what you are smoking, but I want some.

An auto eats engine power, is prone to overheat under load, is weaker BY DESIGN, fewer gear ratios, you lose compression braking, and has a mind of its own.

No thank you, I'll stick with my 5-speed spicers. Autos have thier uses, ie: granny cars. other then that, they are a waste of metal.

Originally posted by Matthew S. O'Bryan


I'm not sure what you are smoking, but I want some.

An auto eats engine power, is prone to overheat under load, is weaker BY DESIGN, fewer gear ratios, you lose compression braking, and has a mind of its own.

Based on what? The 2,000 plus HP drag cars running autos? You don't loose compression breaking, just not as much as a manual. Yes it'll overheat, but so will a manual. Newer auto's have as many gear ranges as manuals. What happens if you burn up a clutch on the trail? With a manual valve body you can hold the tranny in any gear you want, and the IH version of the 727 will hold gears.

Originally posted by Matthew S. O'Bryan
No thank you, I'll stick with my 5-speed spicers. Autos have thier uses, ie: granny cars. other then that, they are a waste of metal.

Let's see how much you like that manual on a hill climb where you have to shift gears :rolleyes:

Originally posted by jdjanda


What happens if you burn up a clutch on the trail?


With an auto, you hope it was just 3/R and you can still drive home in 2nd gear. :flipoff2:

With a stick, you only have one.. but if I had to, I could add some grit between the clutch and flywheel, and/or just weld the fawker and drive home still.

Mostly though, I'd put it back on the trailer. :flipoff2:

Let's see how much you like that manual on a hill climb where you have to shift gears :rolleyes:

And people wonder why I want my SV to spin 6000rpm.. who shifts? I just apply more foot!

if its overheating add a bigger cooler

Originally posted by jdjanda


You don't loose compression breaking, just not as much as a manual. Yes it'll overheat, but so will a manual.

If you don't have as much, you lost it, right??? :rolleyes:
Show me a T-19 that died from overheating.



Let's see how much you like that manual on a hill climb where you have to shift gears :rolleyes:

Joe,
I make a good part of my living driving truck. If it has gears and a shiftlever, I can make it shift slicker then hogshit. No boast, just fact.
I rarely use the clutch on my DD, just no need. Like Tom said, if my clutch burned out, I'd fix the flywheel and input solid, and speed shift my way home. I'll lay good money I can shift a T-36 faster then most anybody on this board can shift a T-19, or a 727 for that matter. If you had 2 almost identical Scouts, one with a T-19 (close) and one with a 727, skilled drivers in both, I'd put my money on the T-19 truck.

Besides, I DO shift manually on a hill climb.
Toe up, Toe down.

Originally posted by RustoleumWhite
nope, never compared apples-to-apples with a stick VS auto.... damn near impossable.


I see advantages in both, personaly prefer the manual, for many of the reasons above, but I belive that it allows "SMOOTHER" wheeling, crawling around with the engine, rather than off and on the brake and gas to creap along a boulder field. However, throw gears into the equation with an auto, and you leavel the field a bit.


Also depends on what you have always used, Hoop had always driven an auto, so he knows how to control it for HIS use, I hate autos on the trail, mostly cause I'm not used to one, and don't know how to control it. but I'll stick with my manual as long as my legs hold out....





Course, that is not the subject of this thread, which BREAKS more stuff..... well, first reaction is the Manual, the potentioal for "shock" loading of the to drivetrain is much greater, slush boxes are just that, soft and cushy, less shock.

HOWEVER, to date I have broke 1-rear d-shaft (stupid foot and dented shaft), 2 front d-shafts (same one rewelded, small stock POS, broke at the weld), and one front (D30) carrier (well, actually 2 sets of gears, but the second one a swear was flawed, 1/2 a run with my new 33's). The first D30 was with 32 AT's, 3.31's, open diffs, t-18/D20... comming out of a sandy gulley with the right foot.... And one set of rear springs (SOA rear, 3-leaf)

Since I went 4.10 44's F&R, with the 33's, and much more rock crawling, wide ratio and D300... haven't broken a thing (yet), even with the new(er) welded rear dif.


Now Hoop... with his Auto, has busted hubs, stubs, autos, motors, spat out shafts............... :flipoff2:


Umm, yeah. I have busted a few parts. Not much recently though... Maybe I am learning to drive?? ;)

Originally posted by Hooper


Umm, yeah. I have busted a few parts. Not much recently though... Maybe I am learning to drive?? ;)

nope, just been wheeling in your garage!! :flipoff2:




hey. Sara comming to Jenni's shower!?!?!? she hasn't called in ya or neigh

Course, niether had Julie, Scoutillac!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by RustoleumWhite


nope, just been wheeling in your garage!! :flipoff2:




hey. Sara comming to Jenni's shower!?!?!? she hasn't called in ya or neigh

Course, niether had Julie, Scoutillac!!!!!!!!!!

Don't know yet. She might be sick right now. Virus went around our house and she has it now. Kai has it too. Been running a fever of 102-104 for 3 or 4 days now. We haven't been getting much sleep because he has been keeping us awake, and it looks like it wore sara down because she thinks she has a fever this morning... Just have to see how she feels this afternoon or evening. If she is OK, she will be there, but this is a nasty virus so if she has it, she won't be there spreading it.

Ever heard of plurisey? That was me last weekend. Ouch.

Originally posted by Hooper


Don't know yet. She might be sick right now. wore sara down because she thinks she has a fever this morning... Just have



Don't worry, Pat. I bet she's not ill - it's just morning sickness.


:D :D

Originally posted by Hooper
Ever heard of plurisey? That was me last weekend. Ouch.

umm.... isn't that a moron thing with 2-wives?!?!?!?




















:flipoff2:
hope sara feels better, I know jenni would lik eit if she was there, but inderstands sick.

he's like Julie to be there as well..... hint, hint Kev....

Dang, Mark. You taking grammar lessons from the Chief these days?

I doubt we'll be joining you in October.. but I guess I'll put both your names on the D44 tubes when I ship 'em. :D

Been watching this one since it started.

Can't say that I think one breaks more than another from my experience.

But, I do seem to notice the Automatic's leak more. Sometimes it looks like a blood trail it can be so bad. 727's are notorious for this.

Not being a fan of giving the greenies more ammunition to send us packing, I avoid automatics for this reason.

Originally posted by tsm1mt
Dang, Mark. You taking grammar lessons from the Chief these days?


hmm, seems like it don't it. Thats what happend when I type fast and don't proof read.... (and fast for me is SLLLOWW compared to SOME people.... tom, pat..


I doubt we'll be joining you in October.. but I guess I'll put both your names on the D44 tubes when I ship 'em. :D

you better find the time to come over..... you skipped out on us this year... we even had the capets cleaned for you!!

Originally posted by Matthew S. O'Bryan


If you don't have as much, you lost it, right??? :rolleyes:
Show me a T-19 that died from overheating.




Joe,
I make a good part of my living driving truck. If it has gears and a shiftlever, I can make it shift slicker then hogshit. No boast, just fact.
I rarely use the clutch on my DD, just no need. Like Tom said, if my clutch burned out, I'd fix the flywheel and input solid, and speed shift my way home. I'll lay good money I can shift a T-36 faster then most anybody on this board can shift a T-19, or a 727 for that matter. If you had 2 almost identical Scouts, one with a T-19 (close) and one with a 727, skilled drivers in both, I'd put my money on the T-19 truck.

Besides, I DO shift manually on a hill climb.
Toe up, Toe down.

Wow. Sure glad there is somebody on this board who can give such a definitive black and white answer to this question that the rest of the world has been debating for years. I am in awe of your talents and shifting skills.

Guess all those idiot sticks at the big rockcrawling events who are converting to auto's should give you a call so they can get straightened out, eh?

Oh yeah, :rolleyes:

Originally posted by tsm1mt


Don't worry, Pat. I bet she's not ill - it's just morning sickness.


:D :D


Hehehe. Nice. You forget I got fixed.... :D

Originally posted by RustoleumWhite


umm.... isn't that a moron thing with 2-wives?!?!?!?

:flipoff2:
hope sara feels better, I know jenni would lik eit if she was there, but inderstands sick.

he's like Julie to be there as well..... hint, hint Kev....

No, that is polygamy. And we don't get to do that anymore. :(

But then, I can barely afford one wife, what would I do with more than one?

Pencil her in as a maybe for Sunday...

Plurisey. Inflamation of the lining of the lung where it interfaces with the chest wall. Imagine road rash on the lining of the lung where it rubs against your chest. Imagine breathing....

Originally posted by RustoleumWhite



hmm, seems like it don't it. Thats what happend when I type fast and don't proof read.... (and fast for me is SLLLOWW compared to SOME people.... tom, pat..




you better find the time to come over..... you skipped out on us this year... we even had the capets cleaned for you!!

Umm, why did you clean the carpets for Tom? Does he eat off the carpet or something???

Umm, why did you clean the carpets for Tom? Does he eat off the carpet or something???


Thanks, Mark, now Pat thinks I'm a carpet muncher..


But then, I can barely afford one wife, what would I do with more than one?


Put her to work and put the money towards the Hooper resto?


Hehehe. Nice. You forget I got fixed....

Yeah, and did it work the first time?


you better find the time to come over..... you skipped out on us this year... we even had the capets cleaned for you!!

I blame it all on the truck! It didn't want to go to Seattle for some reason. Maybe things didn't go well at the Portland Auto Show in 1974 and it just doesn't want to go back to that area?


...

If we just want to tally up "what breaks more" an auto vs stick.

My auto Scout has broken a LOT more stuff than my stick Scout.. which has broken a lot of stuff in it's own right, but the auto's busted more stuff.

I need a new shed just to keep the busted stuff from the auto Scout..

Originally posted by Hooper

Guess all those idiot sticks at the big rockcrawling events who are converting to auto's should give you a call so they can get straightened out, eh?



awww pat, your falling into the "if the pro rock-crawlers do it, it must be the BEST!!" trap.



Like its been mentioned before, pro "rock-crawling" is becomiing more like rock RACING, auto makes going fast easier... sometimes. Sure makes one less thing to think about.


But Cain is still stick, Tom LeBlanc is stick... they like the control and have no plans on swapping soon.




beside, that doesn't mater, the subject is not WHAT IS BETTER OFFROAD, its WHAT BREAKS MORE PARTS....

answer for #1: personal preferance, they both have advantages/disadvantages, and that also depends on skill and personal taste.

Answer for #2: hard to say, depends on how driven and who is driving and MILLIONS of other factors. Common theory, the auto *would* be softer on parts... Fact: who the hell knows, and I don't think there is any way of telling.














and the curserary:
:flipoff2:

Originally posted by tsm1mt


Thanks, Mark, now Pat thinks I'm a carpet muncher.

What, you aren't a Lesbian trapped in a man's body?:D

Originally posted by IH Diesel Power


What, you aren't a Lesbian trapped in a man's body?:D

Hey, I was neither confirming nor denying Pat's suspicions.. just noting that he has suspicions now.

:flipoff2:

And yes, I am, though admittedly a less man-hating lesbian trapped in a man's body.

Originally posted by RustoleumWhite



awww pat, your falling into the "if the pro rock-crawlers do it, it must be the BEST!!" trap.



Like its been mentioned before, pro "rock-crawling" is becomiing more like rock RACING, auto makes going fast easier... sometimes. Sure makes one less thing to think about.


But Cain is still stick, Tom LeBlanc is stick... they like the control and have no plans on swapping soon.




beside, that doesn't mater, the subject is not WHAT IS BETTER OFFROAD, its WHAT BREAKS MORE PARTS....

answer for #1: personal preferance, they both have advantages/disadvantages, and that also depends on skill and personal taste.

Answer for #2: hard to say, depends on how driven and who is driving and MILLIONS of other factors. Common theory, the auto *would* be softer on parts... Fact: who the hell knows, and I don't think there is any way of telling.














and the curserary:
:flipoff2:

Naw, but I don't buy into the *everyone wheels stick so it must be better*, or the *I've been driving stick for a thousand years so it must be better* lines either.

They all have pros and cons. THAT was my point.

And, you are right, the thread is, which breaks more stuff.....

http://www.thegully.com/essays/puertorico/puertorico_img/deadhorse.jpg

Originally posted by Hooper



http://www.thegully.com/essays/puertorico/puertorico_img/deadhorse.jpg

Well, if you're making the point that driving off Dead Horse Point would break more parts.. well, it won't matter auto or stick!

But what kind of trail is that.. I drove my Travelette to the overlook without a single problem - never even lifted a tire or turned in the hubs...

When you going to come play in Moab, Pat?

Come to RMIHR, then play in Moab after.. how about RMIHR in 2004? Can we plan on that? :D

Originally posted by tsm1mt


Well, if you're making the point that driving off Dead Horse Point would break more parts.. well, it won't matter auto or stick!

But what kind of trail is that.. I drove my Travelette to the overlook without a single problem - never even lifted a tire or turned in the hubs...

When you going to come play in Moab, Pat?

Come to RMIHR, then play in Moab after.. how about RMIHR in 2004? Can we plan on that? :D

Umm, this thread is a dead horse.... ;) You mean this place really exists???

Moab, hmm, depends. Buying a new house next month or so, have to see if that gets me more cash or less....

Originally posted by Hooper


Umm, this thread is a dead horse.... ;) You mean this place really exists???


I realized that was your point after I finished posting, but yes, it does exist.

We were just there in July...

http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/gallery/albums/album25/DCP_0077_002.sized.jpg

Here's the view -

http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/gallery/albums/album25/DCP_0075_002.sized.jpg

Remember the opening sequence to MI:2? Dead Horse Point.

It's 1/2 hour out of Moab. Here's your chance to pitch it as a Family Trip, Pat.

Moab Pavement Tour - Dead Horse, Canyonlands (Island in the Sky) and Arches via IH Travelette (http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/postnuke/modules/gallery/album25)

This was at Island In the Sky (Canyonlands National Park)

http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/gallery/albums/album25/DCP_0093_002.sized.jpg

Originally posted by tsm1mt


I realized that was your point after I finished posting, but yes, it does exist.

We were just there in July...

http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/gallery/albums/album25/DCP_0077_002.sized.jpg

Here's the view -

http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/gallery/albums/album25/DCP_0075_002.sized.jpg

Remember the opening sequence to MI:2? Dead Horse Point.

It's 1/2 hour out of Moab. Here's your chance to pitch it as a Family Trip, Pat.

Moab Pavement Tour - Dead Horse, Canyonlands (Island in the Sky) and Arches via IH Travelette (http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/postnuke/modules/gallery/album25)

This was at Island In the Sky (Canyonlands National Park)

http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/gallery/albums/album25/DCP_0093_002.sized.jpg

Beautiful. Sara wants to take a long(er) trip next year....

Originally posted by Hooper


Beautiful. Sara wants to take a long(er) trip next year....

I meant the canyons, not you, of course... ;)

Originally posted by Hooper


I meant the canyons, not you, of course... ;)

There you go, hurting my feelers again.. *sniffle*

Really pretty area.

We did Dead Horse Point State Park and Canyonlands in one day, came back into Moab, ate at the Moab Brewery, then did Arches after a late lunch/early dinner.

The whole tour in a day.

You can also go visit Hole In the Rock, and an hour or so away is Monument Valley, where all the old Westerns were filmed.

Plus, of course, there's WHEELIN' TO BE HAD.. after you drive up the Moab Rim Trail (or take the chair-lift to the top) there's a real nice view of Moab and the surrounding area.

http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/scout/jpg/trips/2001/pic215.JPG

View from the Rim
http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/scout/jpg/trips/2001/pic224.JPG
http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/scout/jpg/trips/2001/pic217.JPG
http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/scout/jpg/trips/2001/pic227.JPG

We took the chairlift - can you see Tigger in the (zoomed in) parking lot?
http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/scout/jpg/trips/2001/pic219.JPG


http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/scout/jpg/trips/2001/pic234.JPG

the rim is pretty, here's a pic a few miles down from where you were.