If you seen my predator carb post you'll know that i toasted the valve train in my motor, and as such we decided to go full roller, and a tad bigger on the cam, anyway a few details:

fully balanced bottom end, arp studs on everything, inculding the heads, 11.5:1 compression, roller roller cam, roughly .685int/.700exh lift cam (its just a "little" guy of a cam :smokin:) ported and polished 4v quench heads, ported roush b351 intake with a predator carb to top it off.

It will be getting ran on a dyno for break in and some numbers, so be looking out for a video and dyno sheets.


Lets get some prediction on some hp & tq numbers here,


i'm predicting a conserative 550hp with 500ft lbs of tq, with power to 7k rpm. But that was with a smaller cam, soo i think its going to be a tab bit higher, will probably flirt with the 600hp mark pretty easy :smokin:


so heres a big :flipoff2: to all them peeps who think the 400 is just a boat anchor, but than again most people probably ain't gonna believe that its a 400

A 400 big block? Or small block?

Either way, I would like to see that boat anchor make that much horsepower at that high of an RPM.

the 400 is a stout motor just people dont beleve it.. and somtimes it costs more money than its worth. did you do the 351c head swap? thats the easyest way to unlock the anmeic engine. you musta done something if your old motor was 500plus hp anyways good luck I build up a 400m pay a shitton of cash for it but the jack ass put the waterpump gasket in backwards and it was pumping coolent into the engine.

old motor was probably right around 450, it had a smaller cam than i though it did (the replacement for the 275DEH was a 270H which was a dog in the motor). And yes its the 4v quench heads on the motor.


And BTW 400's are small blocks :)

old motor was probably right around 450, it had a smaller cam than i though it did (the replacement for the 275DEH was a 270H which was a dog in the motor). And yes its the 4v quench heads on the motor.


And BTW 400's are small blocks :)
Not exactly a 400m isnt really a big block or small block... Ill let someone else explain but its a 3## series I cant remember the exact number.
Either way its still a ford and props for not cheaping out and building a chevy.

335 series, but this board likes their small block chev shit, (which has no place in the mud), so i thought i'd dumb it down a bit for the chevy impaired :). I'm also kinda stuck with ford anyways, since my last name is Ford :flipoff2:

Good luck with the motor, hope it turns out the way you wanted it.

Who's doing the dyno session for ya?

i never did understand the split between 335 and 385 series. i figured with canted valves it would be a "big" block. plus it has a longer stroke than a 460. a buddy has one that stomps my 460:( he went mega cheap on his build with pistons from napa for a propane motor(11 to 1 i think) and hogged out his heads himself. i had one too for a while. they run strong and always catch shit for some reason.

Don't know crap about Ford's never wanted to. Chevy does make a 400 small block and a 400 big block.

Didn't bother to search on the 400M and for that I retract my previous statement.

Should have built a Chevy, maybe you wouldn't be having to rebuild right now.:flipoff2::flipoff2:

by 400 big block chevy are you speaking of a late model 396?

570/530 is my guess..
400's are a bad... bad.... motor, especially when you put some compression into them.. 400ford>400chevy... but then again, it's not even really a fair comparison..

But shit... my cousin's buddies uncle 350 puts down twice that with stock camelbacks, a 3/4 race cam, headers, and a Qjet on a high-rise.. course' that sweet autozone chrome kit really sets it apart... :flipoff2:

what is the other 1/4 of the cam? part "race" or not "race" at all? is full "race" just too crazy or what? ...................oh, damn. now i see what you were doing.

hillbillly, its being dyno'd in great falls MT, the builder is doing the break in, pulls, if it times out right I'm going to try to be there but that will be on saturday, or my father will be down there if it gets wrapped up and put on the dyno on friday. I'm hoping it gets done on friday cause i'll be racing for saturday then.



i never did understand the split between 335 and 385 series. i figured with canted valves it would be a "big" block. plus it has a longer stroke than a 460.

true enough, however the heads from any small block can be bolted to the 400, most 351C parts swap over that aren't dependant on the deck hieght, the crank from the the 400 can be made to fit in the 351windsors and clevelands.

Basically other than similar cyclinder head design theory, and the same bellhousing pattern, then again the 400 can be found with a small block pattern (had the old FMX tranny behind it certain flywheels and starters will interchange as well) the distributors are the same piece as well. Its more or less a big small block or small big block, but not a true small block or true big block.

Don't know crap about Ford's never wanted to.
Who would want to know?:flipoff2:

heres a few pictures of some parts that are going on it:


http://img1.classistatic.com/cps/l/kj/09/6/12/646/r3/1078ckb_20.jpeg

http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/large/msd-8577.jpg

Its more or less a big small block or small big block, but not a true small block or true big block.

It's a Medium block, duh, what did you think the 'M' was for?

I know thats not what the M is for,
I know there's got to be at least 2 stupid fawks that ARE going to argue about it

what did you think the 'M' was for

nothin actually :flipoff2:

but this board likes their small block chev shit, (which has no place in the mud)

Not sure why you went there but nice motor. I'm actually building a 400 sbc right now. Of course i'm actually building it myself :flipoff2:

My father is hellbent on building a propane 400M - and build specs or advise on what he should be doing while it is apart?

I'm VERY eager to see what kind of numbers you are going to put down - I'm going the route of an EFI 393 with a high probability of a 100 shot for the tough spots.

Have you ever thought of getting those Jon Kaase aluminum heads for the M? I bet that would net ya some decent gains!!

I fi were to go aluminum i'd be raiding a nascar ford engine builders parts bin :)

It's a Medium block, duh, what did you think the 'M' was for?

I know thats not what the M is for,
I know there's got to be at least 2 stupid fawks that ARE going to argue about it


sneaky bugger :flipoff2:


i'm hopin i can get to see dyno results tomorrow, if not see it run on saturday :).

It's a Medium block, duh, what did you think the 'M' was for?

I know thats not what the M is for,
I know there's got to be at least 2 stupid fawks that ARE going to argue about it

LMAO I met a guy that swore up and down he had the 400 medium block in his truck.

hey anyone know where i could pick up a set of tractor pull headers for a 4v cleavland?

hey anyone know where i could pick up a set of tractor pull headers for a 4v cleavland?

thats a tough one...fab shop!!

Get any dyno results yet?

no results yet, valve train was 2 days late (cam is a custom ground, soo tad longer turnaround time), i'm hoping monday tuesday, as i really do not want to mis the race out in crowsnest pass during thunder in the valley next weekend (my birthday is next weekend too).

get to crackalackin!

i wanna see some numbers!

i bet she roars.

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr . . . .still waitin on the cam, short block is all together less the cam, the heads are back from some more portin n' polishin, they are just waiting on valvetrain parts too.

I've started building my own set of tractor pull headers, i have the first collector 2/3 the way done, just need finished cleaning up, then its all wrapped up, i need to pick up some gaskets so i can cut the flanges out, then pending when i get the motor back i'll either skip the new headers (cause i'm gonna have to go racing) or i'll toss in the old stock 400 and fab up the new headers, i'll have a couple pictures tomorrow.

Whats the difference in 2v cleveland heads and 2v modified heads?

Nothing really in terms of performance, same port size and valve size, as well as chamber volume, the aussie 2v heads though use the same small chamber as the early 4v heads.

From what I've read 4V heads are for high RPM power. Is this true? They have some huge valves and ports. After seeing some info that the modifieds arent complete turds I'm thinking about rebuilding mine to make some good low end power and torque. Oh well, I can always put a chevy motor in it if the modified doesnt work out HAHA.

so how bout an update?

I'm hoping early this week, tuesday or wednesday, i hope,a s long as the valve train parts are in it shouldn't be an issue, cause as far as i know thats the only hang up.

I know its too late since your making your own now but DEC headers makes uprights for just about anything you can think of, including a specific line for 351c, 351M, and 400.

I'll admit im not a fan of their aluminized coating they come with but I saw a pair a guy sent away and had coated with something and they are really nice. Whatever the coating was it cost more than the headers, they were coated inside and out.

If your not done with your homemade ones you might wanna check them out. Google DECheaders.com, Dave.

yeah i've been down with a nasty cold the last week, so haven't got much finished on the headers, just one collector, i still need to clean up the inside, good practice though, found a really neat way to make collectors that is really really simple.

Talked with DEC, 280 bucks for some upright 2" primary headers, with the foward swept design and tall valve covers, soo i think i may just go that route, thanks for the hook up wvmudder1

Just got word that the cam and stuff are in, short block will wrapped up today, heads won't be far behind, something for the cam (retainer or something like that) and the roller rockers were just ordered, soo i'm hoping i can get everything in time for dyno time on friday then toss the motor in and go racin saturday.

heres a video to hold you over till friday/ monday (last of the valve train parts will be in friday as well final assembly). My truck is the orange truck racing the blue bronco, thats the run that i blew the rocker:

conrad 2009.mpg - Car Videos on StreetFire (http://videos.streetfire.net/video/conrad-2009mpg_696956.htm?advanced=b8e5bc3d-54e1-47bb-a7db-9c4e002c4209)

and some picture of the headers i've decide to build, ended not being able to get the ones i needed in the proper size:

http://px6.streetfire.net/0001/56/98/1736589_600.jpg
http://px6.streetfire.net/0001/56/78/1736587_600.jpg
http://px6.streetfire.net/0001/56/88/1736588_600.jpg

collectors are all wrapped up, the inside was ground smooth before i put the collector on:

http://px6.streetfire.net/0001/07/98/1737089_600.jpg
http://px6.streetfire.net/0001/07/88/1737088_600.jpg

clean the tubes better and it will weld nicer

Wow new thread to me. Big fan of boat anchors :D I have a set of 4v C heads that I want to put on one of my 400 bottom ends. Got good headers ready just need a single plane intake to mate it up. That and the valve train you are installing.

I bet 600 cuz I am an optimist.

MJ, welding hasn't been much of an issue, but yeah it would weld nicer.

Anywho got the tubes cut and tacked up (used the chopsaw method vs. using bends):

http://px6.streetfire.net/0001/68/01/1738610_600.jpg
http://px6.streetfire.net/0001/68/90/1738609_600.jpg
http://px6.streetfire.net/0001/68/80/1738608_600.jpg

Used the orginal motor out of the truck for mock up, checked measurements on a buddies trucks that has a 460 with some sconfield (sp?) pulling headers, tomorrow night i can hopefully get them all welded up, sanded smooth and ready to go.

What size primaries did you go with?

2.25" with a 4" collector

[QUOTE=mustange70;10092374]heres a video to hold you over till friday/ monday (last of the valve train parts will be in friday as well final assembly). My truck is the orange truck racing the blue bronco, thats the run that i blew the rocker:

conrad 2009.mpg - Car Videos on StreetFire (http://videos.streetfire.net/video/conrad-2009mpg_696956.htm?advanced=b8e5bc3d-54e1-47bb-a7db-9c4e002c4209)

are you the big orange truck that was @ the monster truck show in great falls in september???:confused:

No, haven't been down to the monster trucks for 2 years, the way they run it doesn't interest me.

wrapped up the welding, need to finish cleaning them up, and smoothing the welds down, also need to pick up some flapper valves, pound in the tubes around the bolt holes, and hope like hell that they fit the truck:

http://px6.streetfire.net/0001/39/00/1739300_300.jpg

http://px6.streetfire.net/0001/29/99/1739299_300.jpg

No, haven't been down to the monster trucks for 2 years, the way they run it doesn't interest me.

is that because its a speed event and not a mud bog???:flipoff2:

the guy that runs it is kinda a dink, and its just a really rough water pit.

the guy that runs it is kinda a dink, and its just a really rough water pit.

that guy is a douche!!!! i never really got up to haver/conrad to play with the canadan boys, the m4x4a boys like to put my bronco in comp mod, ive always thought it was f***** up

You should come up to milk river this weekend then :), whats your rig, if you're running 44's or cut tires then yeah i can see them bumping you up

im in the air force and curently sationed in washington dc, and i have a 85 bronco, normaly i run 33"-35" tires, the bump me up because i built a motor that has some power, :flipoff2:

Booooooooooooooooo you suck, but yeah built motors usually bump ya up from stock, and pending on the rig the sportsman class as well.

they put me in sportsman once ..... lol easy money. i also have a nos kit on it and normaly spray a 100 shot and that puts me in x-class...WTF like a bronco is ever going to keep up with a blown rail:shaking:

pic of the bronco with the old motor:smokin:
http://www.m4x4a.org/index.php?module=mGallery2&g2_itemId=4436

Updates??

updates . . . well kinda of crappy, dyno guy lost both of his grandparents in a motorhome accident beginning of this week, soo no dyno time till next friday/monday, and i can't wait that long, as i'm racing saturday.

The headers are gonna be a pain to make fit, as the steering needs to be re run, and the brake booster needed to be removed (which i've already taken care of, need to get some u-joint for the steering though).

Ened up having to switch over to electric fuel pump, soo new fuel cell, filter, pump, regulator, all new line, bunch of fittings, ends up being expensive, still need to port match the headers and pound out the tubes around the bolt holes, need to rig up some throttle linkage as the predator runs a funky setup, need to rewire the hole truck for the msd shit, shouldn't be to bad, but time comsuming. Anyway its been a long last couple days and it'll be even longer tomorrow, soooo i'll keep this thread updated, peace out.

Can't wait to see the end result. I too am using the boat anchor/ 400 in my truck. It's bone stock with an edelbrock intake, carb spacer, holley dp and some summit headers. I'm currently cleaning up a different 400 (f'd up the on in the truck). Seems like a decent motor. I'd like a 460 but I have the gears to run the 400 for now.

http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/6614/vid02336.th.jpg (http://img518.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vid02336.jpg)


Good luck

I agree can't wait for the end result on this thing, best of luck.

Alrigty had an awesome first outing, had the fastest non rail(blowers nitrous and cut boggers/paddles type of rigs) run of the day, i had no issues with all the new crap i put in the rig, but i do have some issues, anywho i came to found the msd doesn't like my autometer tach and petronix rev. limiter due to the way it gives the signal to the coil, soo i swap the tach to run off the msd 6a box, and i still haven't got the rev limiter to work, gonna try to swap a couple wires around and it should be good to go, if not i'll have to drop some more coin and get something that will work with the msd.

Carberator, well i ran into issues, it was all gummed up, wouldn't give fuel over 3000rpm and it fell flat on its face, sooo i tossed the 750 demon back on it to get it running, and its definately too small, so i have to get the overhaul kit and get the carb rebuilt.

I got the brakes and the steering all sorted out and working better than before soo thats good. but yeah heres a vid of the truck at idle, and i'll be uploading 2 more vids tonight as well:

new motor - Car Videos on StreetFire (http://videos.streetfire.net/video/new-motor_699162.htm?advanced=6242fb14-cf9e-4ab7-8fed-9c5a00216ea9)

throw the msd in the garbage!!! i had a msd6al on mine, it made it 167 miles.:eek: it was still under warrent and msd wouldnt do anything about it.
so i replaced it with this.
http://www.malloryperformance.com/ProductDetails.aspx?modelNumber=667C&productID=2524&majID=534&minID=5341&selection=3&minselection=0
its a lot of coin, but its got 3 rev limiter, 3 stages of retard, etc, etc. its the best ignition i have ever had.. ever:flipoff2:

all your vids say "unavailable"

vids should be up and working now.

When you get it running good, I would love to see dyno results. Is it getting to 7000 rpm yet?

yeah the old motor was hitting 7000, and i've already tickled that mark too. I won't be running it there though as the cam only makes power to 6500ish.

you said u where looking for a place that makes upright headers try
http://www.decheaders.com/shop/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=64_66_79_106

and if you wanna make ur own summit makes header flanges but it looks like u got it taken care of im a bit late

yeah the old motor was hitting 7000, and i've already tickled that mark too. I won't be running it there though as the cam only makes power to 6500ish.

what cam are you running? i built a 400 last winter i went with the comp xe262h but its more of a street truck than yours

Truck sounds real good!!

what cam are you running

Custom ground solid roller, .662 and .685 lift (smaller than i was orginally told) on a fairly tight duration, lobe seperation is 109.5, i'll grab the cam card here tomorrow and post the exact specs causei'm curious as to what my dynamic compression is coming out to.

Thats a lot of cam. should pull to 7000rpm. Whats the duration on it at .050?

lol still haven't grabbed the cam card, anywho a couple more vids:

Cardston Mud Bog run 2 - Car Videos on StreetFire (http://videos.streetfire.net/video/Cardston-Mud-Bog-run-2_703241.htm?advanced=aa0ba452-3ecb-4ab4-a2f1-9c6f0187f743)
cardston mud bog run 3 - Car Videos on StreetFire (http://videos.streetfire.net/video/cardston-mud-bog-run-3_703243.htm?advanced=7c8c94e4-31b8-425f-9bbd-9c6f0189f146)
cardston mud bog - Car Videos on StreetFire (http://videos.streetfire.net/video/cardston-mud-bog_703239.htm?advanced=792885c0-5310-4e7b-8c95-9c6f0185c631)

The one vid you can hear where i loose fuel pickup, so i'm gonna have to do something about that. Also in the one where i launch in to high of a gear i was fully convinced that the old snorkle setup had to go, i was running the spectre single 4" inlet goodies, and its just way to restrictive for my motor, so i grab a 5" tight radius exhaust elbow, followed by a rubber coupling and a rubber 45* elbow and made a new snorkle. The rubber coupling fits perfect over the carb in place of the old spectre unit, then i shoved the 90* bend in the coupling with the 45*elbow connected to that with a short length of 5" muffler pipe with a big ass dry washable filter on the other end of the pipe. It made a BIG difference, truck even idles better with the bigger intake on the thing, aside from the size increase the smoother radius bed leading into the carb throat should increase power as the spectre stuff is just to restrictive on bigger motors.

Any one made the videos work??? I can't?

Check again later on, i've found streetfire takes a tad long to get everything working

i know this is really late but www.schoenfeldheaders.com is a good place to get lots of headers... runnin updrafts from them on a 360 mopig in a dirt drag truck... they seem to work pretty good and look great... just figured id try to get that info out there...

thanks, yeah they got some good stuff, but this is what i ended up building:


http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/757291/fullsize/img_1389.jpg

i'm gonna try to get the vids reloaded up here in the next couple days.

got the videos uploaded:

millk river mud bog first run - Car Videos on StreetFire (http://videos.streetfire.net/video/millk-river-mud-bog-first_699167.htm?advanced=b460715e-b2fd-4f44-a555-9c5a002b77ff)
YouTube - Cardston mud bog run 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5Caafpd51M)
YouTube - My last run in cardston (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31DJQm8gR1Y)
YouTube - missed shift run in pollockville (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YS2uE_tJwSc)
YouTube - Cardston mud bog run 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9WDM5nfJQk)
YouTube - Pollockville mud bog in truck vid :) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFXe6WG5ZUc)

Soooooo update :D, I should've took bets on what would've let go first :D (cause i would've won lol). Here's the vid of the motor going south (caution with the vid, theres a nice big f-bomb at the end lol):

YouTube - MVI_1557.AVI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JND-b8VZ4GQ&feature=related)


That happened back over july long weekend, and due to the new job and recent relocation i have only just been able to get to tearing it apart to see what happened. Got it pulled apart and here's what i found:

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs379.ash2/65768_10150340788920282_786780281_16202916_2936671 _n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs614.ash2/156675_10150340788465282_786780281_16202912_265690 8_n.jpg

The piston on the #2 cyclinder let go, and the resulting rod banging around caught the side of the piston wall and took it out. After further checks, the valve train and heads look to be in excellant condition, the crank looks to be in good condition as well. The rod on #2 looks to even be reusable lol. This goes to show just how strong these motors actually are, as the part that let go was the aftermarket crap hyper. pistons.

So ther plan is to chat with tim meyer in getting a 434 short block built( all forged, 4bolt mains, pistons to bump the cr to 13:1+, studded everything, possibly a little block filler), and i'll toss my valve train and heads and such on the new short block, then possibly look at adding a hint of the giggle gas to get it over the 700 mark :D.

i'm predicting a conserative 550hp with 500ft lbs of tq, with power to 7k rpm. But that was with a smaller cam, soo i think its going to be a tab bit higher, will probably flirt with the 600hp mark pretty easy :smokin:


Awwww, sounds like a cute little small block. :p

:flipoff2: You know I just can't help myself poking fun at you 400 owners...no matter how bad ass the build is :blackgrin:

Edit: All kidding aside, sorry to hear about that breakage. Although, I did get a chuckle out of your reaction in the vid :laughing: Still, all's well that ends well when you get the chance to go bigger :D

Did you go punch the douche nozzle in the brain that was laughing at you on the end of the vid?

yeah there was no warning, no tell tale signs, no funny noises, gauges all read fine, then the next thing i knew, the entire contents of the cooling system went up and out the pipes, surprised the heck out of me.

And no, there were to many people laughing to pick just one lol.

All in all these 400's can handle some power, more so than any other ford small block in factory iron, next one is going to push it just a little bit more, minimum 650hp (bout 50 more than where it sat before this destruction), and like i said before, nitrous will be on the menu, and the fuel type may be switched to a propane setup (more specificly liquified propane injection, being seeing it come up more and more, and theres a few items that really turned me onto it, and yes it will be more money and effort, but will be worth it i think).

I'll keep this thread updated as I go.

Sorry to hear about the damage Cody, but I guess that is a part of this sport!! Those hyper pistons just ain't what they're cracked up to be (pun intended LOL) But I will be waiting to see what you can do with that engine in the next phase, should be a nasty 'sleeper' since not many have much faith in those M motors!!

Yeah this wasn't anything near a sleeper lol, no way to hide the idle :D. the next will have to be able to keep up with yours ;).

So i've got the ball rolling on the rebuild. Talked with the builder (for those in the helena montana area, the guy thats built this motor and will be doing the next is Ryan Clark, he runs the machine shop at the Car Quest in Helena, you can grab the contact info of carquest.com), told him what happened and what to do for the new build. I asked him to look into (price wise) the 434 forged stroker kit, get the compression as high as possible, main girdle, enough block filler to fill it up to the bottom of the frost plugs (i never had any cooling issues with this motor, if anything i had issues getting it up to operating temps). Basically a new short block with higher compression, the storker is to take benefit of the forge compontents, and the other items are to counter the biggest issues with these motors, which is block shift. As long as the heads and valve train (aside from the parts on the bad cylinder) are resuable i'm hoping to keep the rebuild under 5g, and I will be going with a 150-200hp capable nitrous kit, and this one won't get installed till its been on the dyno.





The goal is 800hp with factory iron block and heads :D.

Awesome, glad to see you're getting this one going again. I want some of my chevy buddies to see an 800 horse Ford 400.

Soooo, talked with the builder again, pending cost, crank will be a cleveland/windsor forged 4340 4.250" crank, a little black magic for the bearings, forged rods and pistons, cr is going to be in the 13-13.25:1 range, i will update as i go.

dropped the engine off with the builder for tear down, crank is a go, lot cheaper than i thought it would be (bare crank is 850), now we are figuring out the best rod/piston combo, going to order some parts for the dominator carb, and look into a main girdle, if i can't find one we'll laser cut one out.

Builder tore into the old motor, cam is undamaged (which is good, that was a pricey custom ground billet solid roller), heads should be good to go, he's going to mag the head on the bad piston and check for cracks, but I'm not expecting anything to bad, but it did bend the valves and a pushrod on the bad cyclinder, one rocker may be buggered, but may be just dirty. Forgot to ask what kinda of shape the stock crank was in though, i'll bug him about it the next time we chat.

The entire rotating assembly is gonna be from Scat, and I'm ordering up a few holley dominator upgrade parts. Also starting to look into transfercase options as the 205 is just to heavy, and the low range blows, if i can swing it, i'm going with a 4wd version of the profab or scs quick change units, and the tranny is going to be a toploader (which i already have) with the big input and big output shafts, new synco's and I may play with the gear ratios a bit.

I had wondered once upon a time about putting a toploader in a mud bog truck...great idea! will be much easier to shift.

the last cleveland i did i filled all the way to the bottom of the water inlets, has excellent cooling, oil temps were fine also for short duration stuff we were using it for.
thrust width is different between the cleve/windsor but that is easy breezy stuff.
i think people shit on the 400m too much, been toying around the idea of a stroker 400m with 4v heads and a tunnel ram, my sim software puts it at 750 crank, hmmmmm...

Hey mustange70.. i remember you quite while back from ford-trucks.com but i havent been on there in a few years. I built a 400(m) too around the time you were working on yours.

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f149/JBradley500/Picture3.png

I remember your build over there, i still post there quite often, and i'm keeping a thread updated over there on this rebuild.

400's are a very stout motor, the weak point is the block, and that doesn't become an issue till you start aiming for 650+, but it you can keep it from flexing it'll hold together, so solid mounting it, bit of block filler (these motors have excellant cooling with stock pumps and an underdrive pulley, i have issues with it running to cold), main girdle, studs, etc and you're good to push the limits.

Thats good to know on the block filler and oil temps (filling it just as much), will look into an oil cooler.

Looks like the rotating assembly is sorted out, the rods are a standard chevy size (6.500" or something, fairly long is all i remember), the pistons are dodge 340 sized, with the 2" pin height and sbc pin diameter. next step is to decide which 4bolt mains to use, then once the block is in next week its time to start prepping.

Found out too that the old crank just needs turned .010" and its good to run :D

Chebby parts in you're ford to make it stronger? Sorry, had to. Good to hear its coming back together. Gonna dyno it? I am on a dyno fit as of having my first one done.

Hey, they're chebby sized, not actually made by gm. . . . there's a difference lol. forgot to say to that were going to order a custom set of Ross pistons, as theres a bit of machine work for valve clearance if we go with the off the shelf pistons, plus with the custom pistons we can bump up the compression even more. And yes this will be on the dyno before it's in the truck to ensure it's running right and tuned properly.

the last cleveland i did i filled all the way to the bottom of the water inlets, has excellent cooling, oil temps were fine also for short duration stuff we were using it for.
thrust width is different between the cleve/windsor but that is easy breezy stuff.
i think people shit on the 400m too much, been toying around the idea of a stroker 400m with 4v heads and a tunnel ram, my sim software puts it at 750 crank, hmmmmm...

The 400 is one of the best Built by Ford all it is is a stroked 351M, Great power & a solid platform to start off.

OBTW there is no such thing as a 400M, but your the Ford Guru...:smokin: The CHeby guys might not know the difference.

She ran pretty good with the Glass Hypers, the nice thing is when they go the parts are so small not much damage gets done. Should be safe to bounce her off the rev limiter W/ Forged.

I just picked up a set of Ported 1970 351c Heads for the roller 351w Build should be interesting.

The 400 is one of the best Built by Ford all it is is a stroked 351M, Great power & a solid platform to start off.


actually it's the other way around, the first 400's were out in 71, and the 351m followed after the Cleveland bit the bullet.

not sure i would worry about the 4 bolt mains, the short deck blocks dont benefit from 4 bolt caps, it has been a while, but, the main webbing may not tolerate it either.. think i would spend that money on a cleveland main stroker crank that was internally balanced..

crank is an internally balanced 4340 forged Windsor based crank, idea behind the 4 bolt mains is to limit block flex, and there's lots of meat to work with in there (plus these are a taller deck block too)

put a girdle on it and leave the 2 bolt caps on it, between the hard block and a girdle it will be fine. you will spend a fortune on 4 bolt caps and gain nill imo..
got a 700 hp, 13.4:1,chi headed, 393 short deck deal (that takes a 175 shot too), it is a girdled one with a short fill, never has cap or bearing problems.. always clean on the refresh.. what did you do for oil mods?

see that's the problem, been having a hard time findin a girdle to work, so it's either machine one for a windsor, or go with the 4 bolt mains (I'd love to do both, as I want longevity out of this), I've found the mains for a 400 for $393, or go the route of a modified Cleveland main, we're working both angles, we'll see how the prices work out and go from there, thanks for the advice.

For oiling, the cam bearings are restricted, the oil drain back tubes in the head and back of the block were cleaned up, external oil line mod, and the solid roller lifters also block oil use, and then theres a high volume pump and a 9qt pan, and I believe theres some work on the bottom end, but I can't remember exactly what it is.

sounds good, make sure your engine builder checks lifter bore clearance, they are known to be loose and bleed off alot of oil (which creates alot of windage) , bronze lifter bore bushings will cure that and prolly add some power too. i do my restrictions under the mains and really like the teflon coated durabond cam bearings, they last really well.. arp for the oil shaft too..
keep us posted on this one, really excited to see some unique ford power being built !!
oh yeh, the girdle, either mod a 351c unit (slot out the main holes) or have a unit lazered out at the local cnc joint maybe..

updates??!!

more to come tomorrow, crank, rods, pistons, rings, bearings, new studs, harmonic balancer, basically the entire rotating assembly and all the little pieces is on the way, i will be calling the builder tomorrow to sell my soul to the devil lol. I also decided to go ahead and get the billet 4 bolt main caps from tim meyer inc, and i think that i'll go with the main girdle as well, yes it may be a bit much, but I want the added insurance.

The crank and rods are 4340, rods are 6.300 long, pistons are a dodge 340 size (1.8 pin height, chevy pin size) they will be custom ordered forged units to get the compression to 13.5:1 minimum, unless i can find a super wicked deal on a set of aluminum heads we'll be hoggin more out of the 4v heads, we're also bumping up the valve spring rates, and as such we are going to jump up to some 3/8" pushrods and a different guide plate setup. I'll get a few more specifics when i chat with the build tomorrow.

what 4v heads? closed chamber heads on a 434 would be flat tops to get to 14:1 ish...
stud girdles will be $ well spent with 7/16" studs and a roller cam too..
what intake you using on this? you limited to a single four?

The heads are quench heads, so yeah the 13-14:1 will be in the range already (the pistons will be custom because of the clearence needed for the valves). We're looking into a stud girdle right now, so i''l keep everyone posted on that, and for the intake i'm running the same professional ported roush B351 intake (running a 1050 dominator), I'm not limited to running a dual carb tunnel ram, and i've been pondering trying out the one we have when the motor is on the dyno, do you think it'd be worthwhile?

guessing your gonna spin this to 8k or so, so yeh, bettin a tunnel will add 30 or so at this c.i.

cam peaks in the 65-7000 range, so I really don't want to run much past 7, but it sounds like I'll have to try it out.

bump.. well..

not much to tell the rotating assembly is in, just waiting on the pistons, block is being prepped, parts for the heads are in, we are aiming to dyne the motor third week of June.

After building a couple of 351Cs with similar cams.....x whatever on the stud girdle. The ones I built had solid roller cams and would bend hardened pushrods if you shifted it much past 6K. At the time no girdle was available for the canted valve Fords.

So, called up John Kasse to look into a stud girdle (got to chat with him for a few minutes, was pretty neat), anyway ordered up a jomar made girdle, was 221 shipped with all the hardware which is pretty good in my opinion. also ordered up the carb parts to up the size of the dominator from a 750 to a 1050 and a rebuild kit, was going to order up an electric water pump, but due to the cost, decided I could wait and I went with a high volume edlebrock victor series pump. Right now we're waiting on the pistons to get wrapped up before any other major work, the heads will be gone through next week, pushrods will be changed out to some 3/8" units, and I think we'll be increasing the spring rate as well.

Forgo to add, I'm switching to Solid mounting the motor, I can't keep the factory rubber mounts alive, that said anyone have any recomendations for BBF mid plates?

Starting to get excited :D, spoke with the dyno guy, tentatively the dyno date is June 23, but we'll see on the pistons, as that's the only question mark right now. Found a few links on the mid plate, the front plate I will fab myself and run mount off the timing cover and heads, then tie the front a mid plate together and run a solid mount at the factory locations as well.

just get a competition engineering mid plate, they have a front aswell, mid is a c4037, front is a c3990. then you just need to fab torque struts..
the jomar is the same unit i have on a customers engine in the shop right now, be aware the adjusters are tall and can hit the valvecovers, the cast aluminum ford racing covers clear tho...
are they chrome plating those pistons or what? :flipoff2:

Yeah i'm not worried about the valve covers, i have plenty of clearence. Thanks on the info for the mid plates, I'll check into it. But that said with the complete truck rebuild in progress I've been kicking the idea of switching to a late 80's ranger (we have a couple on the farm), and i'd hate to chop up those plates, we'll see, I need the truck so i can measure and get a good idea of where everything would sit.

That'd be cool if they were chrome plating them wouldn't it, then this motor would really be blinging lol. Talked to the builder, I guess Ross is backed up and it'll be at least another week, so dyno date is pushed back a week.

pistons have finally arrived, now its a matter of waiting on the block, i thought it was done but we are still waiting on the block to get drilled for the 4 bolt mains, I hope everythingfalls into place very soon, as i've got the itch to get racing bad.

yeh, do the ranger, that would have some attitude!
and, bring the machinest some beer so he will get your shit done....

Yeah i'll be calling next week, this is starting to get a bit out of hand. And the ranger may just work . . . .that said the full truck rebuild is going to be delayed a bit as i've ended up purchasing a house this week, so all disposable income has vanished for the next few months lol, but motor, new tranny and t case will be good to go.

Wheres the beef?

on holidays lol, builder is away, but back Monday, so I'll get some details then.

Found out that the guy doing the block had massive equipment failures and was down for a number of months (CNC stuff, we want this stuff perfect), so the block is finally getting wrapped up. But work has been so stupid fawking busy I wouldn't been able to do anything witht this anyway.

Sooooo now I've been look at upgrading to some aluminum heads . . . . CHI 3v is on the list, as are the new C400 heads, max flow of 400cfm, so we shall see, roush/yates C3 & D3 heads are also a possibility. Cost and performance gain are the factors, if the 3v's are a fair better in stock form i will go that route, but if the gain si marginal, I'll hold out for the C400 or yates heads that can flow 400cfm. More to follow.

SooooI've ended up with a set of blue thunder 3.60's heads, easily capable of 400 cfm flow on the intake and exhaust flow to keep up :D, nice little improvement over the 330ish that my heads are at. Also the block is finallly done and back in the hands of the builder. Sooo slowly but surely we press foward.

On my ebay buy of the month on those blue thunder's, well the seller flaked out and i never got my heads, so i searched high and low the last couple weeks, and I've found a set of ported yates d3 heads, these have only seen dyno time and made 900+hp :D. They come with new titiaium valve and new jessel shaft mount rockers.

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/384687_10151007337800282_786780281_22013770_212418 2918_n.jpg

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/388276_10151007337870282_786780281_22013771_781693 843_n.jpg

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/374842_10151007337915282_786780281_22013772_179771 4619_n.jpg

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/378810_10151007337945282_786780281_22013773_157611 1021_n.jpg

http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/386330_10151007338020282_786780281_22013774_430678 240_n.jpg

that sucks, just get some chi heads, gotta be real careful buying used nascar stuff, then custom headers, piston notches are different, find an intake man, etc... the chi stuff has made over 800 @427" w/o cnc work... takes all stock valvetrain, headers, pistons, etc... AND, they have a intake that bolts on. get-er-done

A new intake (the chi intake is a close fit for the yates heads iirc) is a must regardless of the head, i need either a dual carb setup or a manifold for a 4500 series carb, headers are no biggie, with the ranger this motor is going into headers will require modification anyway, plus they are full custom headers i built to start with. When looking into the CHI the only ones that made 800 hp were the c400's or a cnc'd 3v, as the stock 3v flow the same as a ported 4v quench iron head, which is what my iron heads are. Cost wise a bare set of c400's or ported 3v's i was looking at 3400 for a bare set, and the yates are 2500 shipped with new jessel rockers and valves, plus these flow a fair bit more, and have a more durable valvetrain setup (already confirmed that the pistons are already cut to clear whatever head i go with). Im into this for a fair bit of cash either way, and because of that i went with whatever offers the most performance. Anyway i should have the heads by the end of the week and i will drop them off early next week, hopefully ill have a carb/intake package nailed down by then too.

Tim Meyer's 4 bolt billet mains:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-nagZzPsaaZg/Tugeadeij0I/AAAAAAAAADk/e8aGYFfooIg/s512/IMG_0108%25255B1%25255D.JPG

The Yates D3 heads compared to a 2v clevo head:

Combustion chamber:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-YdWI1Pubrj8/TugnV90SaOI/AAAAAAAAAD0/5fRnKZ6kfU4/s512/IMG_0099%25255B1%25255D.JPG



the exhaust ports:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-yslOeYwU8FU/TugiecBkLiI/AAAAAAAAADs/6f1W5m9LGac/s512/IMG_0100%25255B1%25255D.JPG



The intake ports:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-4ft33sDCE2I/TugrO36w5pI/AAAAAAAAAD8/HQU97UfvsFA/s512/IMG_0098%25255B1%25255D.JPG

any news?

Nothing new really, been really busy with work, so its made thing a tad difficult for me to get things sorted out.

But the intake will be a dominator flanged yates intake with spacers (found an intake locally), and the carb will be the dominator I have sent out to be professionally rebuilt/tricked out, but I keep looking at EFI/mechanical injection, but i think that will come at a later date.

Cam will be in the 750" lift range, closer to 800" on the intake and closer to 700 on the intake, we're having to get all new valve springs & hardware too due to the new heads and that stuff is in progress of being ordered. I gotta call the builder this week as I want to try to get it together by the end of march so i can get it in the new rig.

bumpy, quick update, heres the intake:

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/292188_10151552494060282_786780281_24180195_102225 6186_n.jpg

http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/523301_10151552496690282_786780281_24180206_157477 5431_n.jpg

http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/560416_10151552498990282_786780281_24180212_333440 395_n.jpg

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/149754_10151552499085282_786780281_24180213_823868 790_n.jpg

Just gotta order up some valve springs/locks/keepers, and intake spacers. will be going with a pair of 650 quickfuel carbs, and a new set of headers or flanges and reuse mine. So its getting close :D.