I'm going to be building a mini-baja buggy for ASU's SAE program, and I'd like to get a few kinda help suggestions. There is a frame already built, but I don't really like it. It's pretty big, so I'm thinking about redesigning the frame. I'm going for something light, yet still very strong.
It's going to be powered by a 10hp briggs and stratton motor. I'm kinda thinking quad size.

Did you go to competition last year? I don't remember seeing your school at the mini-baja west competition. I goto Calpoly along with a lot of other SAE/PBB members. Maybe we'll have a few :beer:'s at competition.

GOOD LUCK

oooh... i am soooo interested in this. Im in the middle of designing a single seater rock buggy for my son.. hes only 7months old so i figure by the time he's 7 or so i may be done with it. I'm thinking, that 1100cc goldwing motor thats been sittin in the garage for 8 years, mated to a sammy tranny and t-case. be able to lock out the 2-3-4-5 gears so he cant haul ass, sammy axles on 33's-35's with welded spiders and hydro assist and one hellofa cage system.

:D:D

LIGHT WEIGHT is very very very key. However, do not sacrific this for dependability. Keep in mind it must complete the endurace race to have even a chance at winning the comp. I would say only about a 3rd of the vechicles finish the race. For example, one thing to look at are rod ends. Alot of weight can be saved here if you use a very high grade bearing that is alot smaller than would normally be used. Sure it would wear out much faster but hey, the vechicle only has to survive one 4 hour race. Also, another area to look at is the CVT. We expierenced dramatic gains in power increase and speed. Play the the torsional spring rates. Good luck and for the record Cal Poly SLO will be very compeditive this year. I am not involved with the club anymore but trust me on this one.

Originally posted by PIG
Good luck and for the record Cal Poly SLO will be very compeditive this year. I am not involved with the club anymore but trust me on this one.



SSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

I built one in 1995.
It sounds like you get more hp then we did. lol
Anyway, we used a chain drive to an ATV gearbox with a centrifugal clutch then a chain to the rear axle with IRS. We used roller clutches. The IRS was a swing arm type.

As for the size you are almost stuck with the minimum height for the roll bar as I remember.

Good;
4wheel IS
Swing arm for rear suspension
Many parts from a quad. Rims, tires, shocks, front suspension, front breaks
Rack and pinion (expensive, but stout)

Bad:
Roller clutches with low horsepower
Chain drive to gearbox
Weight (too much rear bias)

Changes to design:
Look at Polaris belt drive systems.
I’d compare to F500 (see SCCA web sight)
Get a diff from a little tractor or something. Then make it selectable/lockable.

The biggest change to win the comp is documentation.

We had a top 5 car, but a bottom 10 presentation.
We were fast in the endurance race, except a couple breakdowns. They could have been avoided with some R&D
Design your frame using CAD, then do a finite element review to justify your design. This is a must for the judges. Make sure you know all of your specs. Weight, height, CG, wheel base, 0 to 30 mpg, top speed, inches of travel, through in some safety stuff like a box with flares, 1st aid, patch kit and CO2 to fill a tire or a fix a flat can.

For the hill climb, use your experience with 4 wheeling, lock up that diff and run the tires almost flat, then bring a air pump to bring them back up.

Our comp was in El Paso, Texas. It was very rocky and skid plates were a must. Ours served us well.

I have raced karts since doing the mini baja. I’d be happy to advise your project from afar. Ask for help from people that have done this sort of thing before. Endurance kart guys are a good source.

I’ve been thinking of building another one with a mid size motorcycle (400-600 cc) engine. :D

Cal Poly is always competitive. Don’t over look the guys from Mexico either.

Hmm... Sounds like ALOT of people here are into this thing. hehehe I don't think ASU will be much of a rival this year (first time in like 10 years?) I think our team is going to be a sorry 4 or 5 members...
TRD, can you give me a little info on what I need to prepare this for? Please? :D I'll buy you a :beer: at the competition... :) I'm REALLY new to this..
Where is nickbike? He's here at ASU...

It is great that your school is getting back into it. It is a great learning experience (and it can get you a job too)

Here is what i would do/shoot for

Planning Goals:

set your deadline a month before you actually want them done (and don't let anyone else know you did that)

Frame: should have a frame designed and built by winter break(you may have to skip winter break like we did)

Car: Plan to have your car done 2 months before comp(I don't think this has EVER happened but it is a good goal we always keep)

Working: We built a new car last year which meant 6 or so commited members worked on it 6 days a week or more. (in between classes and all day sat. W/ some sundays off)

Car Goals:

Weight: cars weigh from 350-600+. It is simple:the lighter you are the faster you are. We weighed 400 last year and hope to drop some weight. 450 is a normal weight.

I could go on for ever. There is a shit load of info you need to know to be competitive (and don't expect to be your first year out).

I am actually in AZ right now and should be down in Tempe hitting up the bars Friday night. I have pics with me of our car from last year. If you want to see pics of comp etc. give me a call around 7pm tonight at (925- 586 7029)

pig check out the Poly Goats thread if you havn't already

Originally posted by MellowYellow

Changes to design:
Look at Polaris belt drive systems.

Don’t over look the guys from Mexico either.

Yes, many people used the Polaris 3 speed gear box (2 fwd, 1 rev). As to the Mexico comment.............just thinking about the shit that they build makes me LOL. It is interesting and entertaining though.

Originally posted by PIG


As to the Mexico comment.............just thinking about the shit that they build makes me LOL. It is interesting and entertaining though.

They made a BIG turn around last year, some of their shit actually won events:eek:

I got some great video of one of them breaking though - they kicked the rear end up in the air and when it came down everything went :nuke:

Pilfer as many of the components as you can from OEM rides: quads, etc.

I've watched MSOE's team try to come up with all this hi-zoot custom stuff in past years and it always fail.

Oh, and START EARLY!!! Too many teams are wrenching late into the night ... the night before the comp. That just doesn't work.

And do I need to say, K.I.S.S. ?!

cmk

Originally posted by Ken "cmk" Bozych
Pilfer as many of the components as you can from OEM rides: quads, etc.


Yeah that is easy but it defeats the point of this competition. And that shit is never built to the right strenght/weight (too heavy and too strong or even too weak and too heavy). We purchased very few pre-made parts.

There is no reason to reinvent the wheel or breaks. :D Bring extra spindles. Snappy snappy.

In 1995, the top three schools were Mexico, SLO, Mexico. Of course all three used chassis for 3 years with tweaks. Again defeating the purpose.
There were some serious hoopty-mobiles from Mexico. Here’s a hint, don’t try to use dirt bike wheels and tires.
If you can, keep your previous baja complete. That way you can compare to an existing car. If you can’t beet the old car, you have a lot of work to do.

We bought wheels (obviously ) and tires too (imagine that). We designed around calipers and m/c and made our own disks. We also bought hubs for the front then modified them to work. We also bought a seat and a harness, roll cage padding, brake line, bike brake cable (from accelerator). motor (DUH), sprockets for the gear box (then modified), shock (custom from SAW - we assambled and tuned), springs, steering wheel, CV's (then modified), Rod ends.

the most effective way to compete is to run a car for two years, the second year making neccassary upgrades and beginning a new car and teaching other people. Running a car for 2-3 years (not same exact car) is the norm. running a car form more than 2-3 is not normal.

Mini baja is not hard to win 5 guys that are serious and a $7000 budget could make a first place team no problem. You just have to make the goal be scoring the most points. Cal Poly, where I went, always does good in the dynamic events and poorly in the design/cost analysis part, where half the points are. If you build an OK car and have it done months early so you can get good at driving it and fix any weak links, and you put together good reports, you can win, no problem. You just have to take it on as a serious project withthe goal of winning. I ran the Formula SAE project when I was there. I definately made some mistakes running it. I concentrated too much on building something more bitchin and not enough on exploiting the point system, but I learned a lot. I think if you go into a project like that you need to go in with a goal of winning, and that means exploiting the scoring system, just like the guys that are doing well in Arca or any other competition. Also steel ideas or whatever. Go up to Calpoly or any of the good schools and tell them you are a ME student interested in joining the mini baja team, steal the good ideas laugh at the bad ones. Remember to keep it simple. my first year at Cal Poly the mini baja team was able to run at twice the pace of the second fastest car but they broke an overly complicated steering part that allowed them an extra half inch of travel (from 15.5 to 16inches) in front. Good luck first or 50th it is a good experience.

welp there must be a bunch of mini baja folks on here.... ohh yea i'm on Auburn baja team....

Another suggestion:

Until this year, MSOE has been using a snowmobile CCVT type trans. The concept is novel and I think it would work great. But you need someone who knows how to tune the clutches to work with a 4 cycle Briggs otherwise you're going nowhere ... like a monkey on a greased pole.

cmk

Just thought id chime in as a mini-Baja alumni. The bottom line is funding. Get it taken care of early. And an involved adviser helps alot. You WILL run out of time , plan for it. If you have a frame already that will pass tech, keep it. Your time would be better spent tuning the suspension and going out and breaking things and learning to drive the thing.

Oh mcsoo, dont worry about being a rookie team, 2000 was our first time in 15 years and we did pretty good. Beat Poly anyway :p

Were any of you Cal Poly guys at the 2000 event? Keg of rolling rock and a strip club in Junction city sound familiar? hehe

this is a funny thread, is there really interest in this?? i built one a few years back, i sold it to build a 2 seat version, but only have the chassis so far.
some points of interest, this may be "old school" for you guys.

that 1100cc goldwing motor thats been sittin in the garage for 8 years, mated to a sammy tranny and t-case

i went a similar route, but it was a xr350 motor no tranny, (has its own) with a sammy case, 2:1 gear reduction built into the adaptor and subaru brat AWD suspension F/R.

I wasn't at that event but believe me i have heard stories and seen pics :d:





Originally posted by fivetenben
Just thought id chime in as a mini-Baja alumni. The bottom line is funding. Get it taken care of early. And an involved adviser helps alot. You WILL run out of time , plan for it. If you have a frame already that will pass tech, keep it. Your time would be better spent tuning the suspension and going out and breaking things and learning to drive the thing.

Oh mcsoo, dont worry about being a rookie team, 2000 was our first time in 15 years and we did pretty good. Beat Poly anyway :p

Were any of you Cal Poly guys at the 2000 event? Keg of rolling rock and a strip club in Junction city sound familiar? hehe :D :D

Originally posted by fivetenben
Were any of you Cal Poly guys at the 2000 event? Keg of rolling rock and a strip club in Junction city sound familiar? hehe

Holy SHIT hell yes I was there........................ that is a classic story that I will never EVER forget. You forgot the most outragus part, the lactating stripper with flames tatooed above her cooter. After she milked everyone she gave herself the SHOCKER with an old greasey latex glove..............I think this post now belongs in chitchat.

Originally posted by TRD
I wasn't at that event but believe me i have heard stories and seen pics :d:

Pics ... and stripclubs ?! Someone needs to die! :flipoff2:

cmk

Originally posted by Ken "cmk" Bozych


Pics ... and stripclubs ?! Someone needs to die! :flipoff2:

cmk

I know there is a Polaroid of everyone holding the flamed cooter chick spread eagle in the air...........I'll do some search'in

it is on the microwave last i saw

Originally posted by PIG
I know there is a Polaroid of everyone holding the flamed cooter chick spread eagle in the air...........I'll do some search'in

THAT is some SERIOUS blackmail material. ;)

cm "oh Mr. Engineering Department Chairperson, look at what your students are doing...." k

Originally posted by TRD
it is on the microwave last i saw

@ the hanger or...?

Originally posted by Ken "cmk" Bozych


THAT is some SERIOUS blackmail material. ;)

cm "oh Mr. Engineering Department Chairperson, look at what your students are doing...." k

ssssshhhhhhhhhh........

I could give you suggestions....but then i would have to kill you.
j/k Actually i really have no idea what im doing...it's a lot of fun and i know i will learnn a lot.

This is my first year at Auburn, and im doing the Mini-Baja Buggy team....maybe ill see ya.

:flipoff2:

Originally posted by sceep
oooh... i am soooo interested in this. Im in the middle of designing a single seater rock buggy for my son.. hes only 7months old so i figure by the time he's 7 or so i may be done with it. I'm thinking, that 1100cc goldwing motor thats been sittin in the garage for 8 years, mated to a sammy tranny and t-case. be able to lock out the 2-3-4-5 gears so he cant haul ass, sammy axles on 33's-35's with welded spiders and hydro assist and one hellofa cage system.

:D:D

Does you Goldwing motor have reverse, I know some of them had it ? I have a midget sprint car frame that I'd like tio make into a light weight buggy maybe using sammy running gear. Go with 34x10.5x15 swampers

Colorado State Univ sucks ass! All we gots is them damn carts! [walking around pissed kicking dirt around]

Did someone say Mini-Baja? Tennessee Tech what? Placed 1st, 2 years in a row at East? I think so!! Although i was on Auburn's team for the first semester last year. Those guys know there stuff also.

what programs are you guys in doing this? liek a product design major? or mech engineering or something? or is it like an extracurricular club or something?

Damn I'm late. It's a senior design class basicly. The rest of use do it for fun.

So Cal Poly's going to be good this year.....I thought they were always somewhat good. It's gonna be fun this year. Hopefully there's not as much mud as last year. Of and you don't need many guys to build a car. Three underclassmen(incluing myself) built our car from the ground up last year. We used 1.25" Chromly thin wall for most of the frame. Make sure to get it done early. Ours should be done by the end of Jan. this year or sooner. We are looking at a dual reduction box, some new CVT's(comet's suck) and maybe some 27" tires. :eek:

We got this kid this year that is sponsered by Ski-doo so maybe we can get our CVT's from him. Anyone else got some that works well and they would like to share?

oh yeah...I'm SDSM&T

Holy SHIT hell yes I was there........................ that is a classic story that I will never EVER forget. You forgot the most outragus part, the lactating stripper with flames tatooed above her cooter. After she milked everyone she gave herself the SHOCKER with an old greasey latex glove..............I think this post now belongs in chitchat.

SHOCKER!!!! HAHAHA holy shit you were there! If you find that pic send that shit to me.

Originally posted by PIG


@ the hanger or...?

yeah at the hanger. check on top of the gray shelves too, it might be up there now.

I'll be back tomorrow night!!!!!

Hmm... I think ASU is gonna be in contention this year!!! hahaha Should I try to run a reduction box? Like a Sammy tcase? Do those 10hp engines put out enough power to run halfway decent size tires?

Originally posted by BMRisko
Did someone say Mini-Baja? Tennessee Tech what? Placed 1st, 2 years in a row at East? I think so!! \

Dude, I hate to burst your bubble but the WEST comp is a bit different. EX: Our junk doesn't have to float........

Don't know what good it would do you guys, but I used to work at www.bristowsinc.com and they have tons of polaris used parts laying around. Is there a money limit on your buggy's? Plus tons of knowledge can be had on tuning your clutches from the right guys there.

Dude, I hate to burst your bubble but the WEST comp is a bit different. EX: Our junk doesn't have to float........

So your bragging that your school cant engineer a car that can do good in East and West/Midwest??? That takes engineering. Both Auburn and TTU compete in East and Midwest, which is similiar to West. To finish well in both races with a car thats made to float (such as TTU and our team did), it takes some know-how.

Take your car out East this year and lets see how it does....

Daniel Hobson
Auburn University Mini-Baja

hobsdaddy can eat some dog crap! hahahahaha deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez

War"muthafuckin"eagle

Hey Dan get you a hogleg :-/

Patrick Weldon
Auburn University's Mina Baja Biotch

Originally posted by PIG


Dude, I hate to burst your bubble but the WEST comp is a bit different. EX: Our junk doesn't have to float........

Dude, I hate to burst your bubble but the EAST comp is a bit different. EX: Our junk has to float........

Don't make us come out there and make our car un-float.....

Some of the best all around cars come out of the east competition...

Why do I need to make it float? I live in a desert. They have to import water here to Phoenix! I guess so I can travel in the canals? :confused: ;) hehe

I would have to say any good car probable won't work real well in the best. I sure it could be made to work but really the midwest and eat are more similar then the east and west. Besides this year we got a rock course.

Originally posted by McSoo
Like a Sammy tcase? Do those 10hp engines put out enough power to run halfway decent size tires?

Sammy T case is probable to heavy. Most teams make their own or use one off an ATV. What size tires is all in how you gear.

Originally posted by McSoo
Why do I need to make it float? I live in a desert. They have to import water here to Phoenix! I guess so I can travel in the canals? :confused: ;) hehe


Your car has to float only for the east race if yall go. Quite fun going from land to water then back to land....

I would have to say any good car probable won't work real well in the best. I sure it could be made to work but really the midwest and eat are more similar then the east and west. Besides this year we got a rock course.

You can make a car work well in both events, but it takes a lot of thought. To make it work is to simply have your car high enough for a float but yet low enough to have a good low CG. Different shocks also can help for each race. For example Midwest is much more of a suspension cycling race then East.

We would love to come out to West this year and haul ass on the rock course, we play on the rocks with our baja car here all the time, but our Advisor see's East and Midwest being almost too much for the team as is.

Daniel Hobson
Auburn University Mini Baja

So this year for West, it's all a rock crawling course? Does anyone ever set up 4wd buggies? Or just 2wd locked?

So this year for West, it's all a rock crawling course? Does anyone ever set up 4wd buggies? Or just 2wd locked?

The new rockcrawling event is only one dynamic event.

Locked 4wd would ROCK :emb4: the rockcrawling event but suck in all the others, sucks too much power out of the little Briggs (added weight/displacement of power). Definitely not worth it.

If we were competing in West we would stick with our locked rearend and just use a driver that does real 4wd rockcrawling since his brain has already been trained to find the right lines. And the driver would also have to go full throttle (haul ass) most of the time choosing those lines quickly...momentum is key with locked 2wd.

Daniel Hobson
Auburn University Mini Baja

Florida is a long way to travel, and the floating event makes the east kinda gay...atleast compared to the rockcrawl :beer: ...CU

So Its "gay" to be a good Engineer and be able to design something very few can do so well, but something that is so common Like Rock Crawling is better? I guess What I am trying to say is that Anyone can make a baja Car climb a hill, but apparently not everyone can make one float.

-MegaMan
Auburn University
Mini-Baja Team

That west rock course sounds awesome but unfortunatly i'm on the east. So we have to worry about the floating thing. I go to Villanova and to anyone was at the competition last year in west virginia we were the team with the annoying dixie horn, you know the one from dukes of hazzard ;). Last year was our second year and second car. We had no time to do any testing on the car until we actually got the race so i think we did ok despite that. This year we will be all tested and ready to go though.

Unfortunaly no stories to tell liek the strippers and stuff. But we'll see what happens in orlando this year. :eek:

personally, I thought the Mid-west comp was kinda "gay" when we went there for the first time....last year. for all the people on the other coast, you don't know what your missin' if you think the midwest is fun. the race there is just a motocross track, smooth and flat, w/ some little jumps. the past couple years West comp. was bitchin'....w/ serious carnage, mud flyin', rock dodgin' racing. and the manuverability course wasn't a fawkin' gravel parking lot!! talked w/ some of the florida boys last year about the east, and sounds kinda cool, but an AWFUL long haul from Oregon.

--Berne
former OSU baja capt....now moved on to big and better things (lame "real" job)

Did anyone else go to the comp in El Paso?
That was a VERY rough 4-hour track. About 1/2 of the 60 cars were running at the end.