Been lurking for a while, but, finally decided to post up my beast:

http://g741.org/PHPBB/viewtopic.php?t=1192&start=0

and the second thread, as my first became an unwieldly beast:

http://www.g741.org/PHPBB/viewtopic.php?t=1962

Looks great so far! Subscribed.

Supercharged too?

Looks sweet.

A couple tips. Ditch the rubber hoses on the oil filter relocation kit and make a set from Aeroquip or similar braided lines. The stock Parker and Dayco lines (the Transdapt kits come with either) will not last 2 years before they start to fail. I wasted a brand new 360 Magnum crate engine because I was too cheap to buy a $100 worth of fittings and line. Lesson learned.

Also, lose the blocks in the front. It's not just a bad idea because "someone's uncle had a problem", they are illegal in all states that I am aware of. They cause too much leverage on the springs rapidly changing front end alignment angles and making very scary, unpredictable steering and handling.

I don't guess I need to tell you that you need to work on your welding skills. Also, I didn't see it mentioned that the Edelbrock carb was modified for use with a turbo? I'm not going to bitch at you about your choices but from here is seems like you are putting some great effort into some things and cutting ridiculous corners on others. I believe with a twin turbo B engine I would have a lot more than the stock M37 radiator trying to cool it. I would have also had those flanges machined flat after welding and probably just paid someone to cut the exhaust port flanges out or mill them. Good luck.

/thanks for the heads up on the hoses...

And,, if you had read the threads, and, looked hard at the pictures, you'd see that:

I ditched the stock radiator. I'm going to get one of Be cools, or summits' universal, 4 core radiators, since the stocker doesnt pressurize worth a crap, and also that Im not running the eddy, it's a junk carb I had laying around for mock up since its the same height as the holley set up for boost I'm going to get from The Carb Shop. And, what welds suck, exactly? Did you notice I've only got a 110 machine?
as far as flanges go, I used a 57 thou dead soft copper gasket, with a stamped in crush ring, and, before I put them on, I Fuji papered the surfaces, and, it seals around the ports, so, it doesnt matter if they're flat all the way across or not, only if you ave contact where it counts.


Finally, on the blocks... Have YOU ever run them, or, are you just regurgitating what everyone else says? Because, I have run them in the front for 5 years, no problems, thousands of miles, before parking the truck to do the rebuild. Please, show me the fine print for the state of wisconsin where it's illegal (I know michigan explicitly bans them, but AFAIK, they're the only ones...), and I'll take them out...

Nope, not just Michigan:

19VAC30-70-110. Steering and suspension.

A. The steering and suspension systems installed and utilized on motor vehicles have evolved to where many different suspension systems are being designed, developed, and employed on vehicles. To properly inspect the steering and suspension on vehicles, it may be necessary for the inspection to be made in accordance with manufacturer's recommended procedures in addition to meeting any requirements outlined in this regulation.

B. Inspect for and reject if:

1. Any modification has been made that affects normal functioning of the shock absorbers. The inspector should operate the vehicle when in doubt. (If there is no evidence of the convolutions (coils) of the spring hitting one another, one pair (2) of nonmetallic coil spring stabilizers may be present in each of a vehicle's front coil springs, provided the installation of the stabilizers does not cause the springs to be higher than their original height.)

Shock absorbers in fully extended or compressed positions when the vehicle is stationary will not function normally.

2. The front end suspension has been modified by the use of lift blocks . (A lift block is defined as any solid piece of wood, metal, or other material placed between and separating the vehicle's front axle and the springs.) This does not prohibit the use of shims that may be necessary to correct front end alignment.


http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+reg+19VAC30-70-110

And no, I have not used them because I'm not too fucking stupid or bullheaded to understand how the front suspension reacts to added leverage allowing the axle to shift forward and backward. If you want to run them, fine, don't listen to your betters. Everyone on this forum, which happens to be the most popular 4x4 forum in the world, knows not to put lift blocks up front you idiot. Just keep your stupid redneck, non-welding ass up there in Wisconsin.

and also that Im not running the eddy, it's a junk carb I had laying around for mock up since its the same height as the holley set up for boost I'm going to get from The Carb Shop.

Why buy what you can build for cheaper?

Furthermore, what is the rest of the fuel system looking like (I don't have time to sit poking through your whole thread right now)?

as far as flanges go, I used a 57 thou dead soft copper gasket, with a stamped in crush ring, and, before I put them on, I Fuji papered the surfaces, and, it seals around the ports, so, it doesnt matter if they're flat all the way across or not, only if you ave contact where it counts.

Feel free to try whatever you want, but a lot of the turbo guys I run with don't even bother trying to run gaskets. They will likely leak. Think about it, your exhaust backpressure is going to be at least 1:1 with boost. Thin and/or non-flat flanges may work in an N/A application but they don't work very well with turbos.

Just my experience. I've built and worked on a lot of turbo crap.



Oh and by the way, an acceptable method to level the front end of a MDT is to use blocks/shims. They are usually only .5 or 1" thick, but I have seen them on many trucks. I think the problems arise when you start putting big blocks in there. Just throwing that out there, I would never use them however.

Modster,

I'm using a walbro GLS392 pump, rated to 800 HP EFI, or 1200 Carb'ed, probably with 1/2" lines, although 3/8 would probably suffice. I hate carb tuning, hence why the purchased carb. It comes with a 30 day return policy... dont like it, send it back, and they'll tweak it.

I was worried about the flanges leaking, but, that's why I Fuji papered them with high pressure fuji paper, and, it shows a cross section of about 3/8" of contact all the way around the ports. Throw in the dead soft copper crush gasket (agreed on the gasket thing... I wont used anything but copper, as I to have built a lot of turbo shit), and it should seal fine. Might have to tighten them for the first few heating cycles as the stainless stress relieves itself, but, it should be OK.

And, Elwinil:


you got your states mixed, up, I asked for WI, not VA... Still waiting.

Did you look at the blocks, per chance, or, just use it as an excuse to be an E-thug and wave your post count around? The bocks are held to the springs with grade 8 7/16" shanked flange held nuts and bolts (welded the nut inside the tube). There is a grade 8 bolt inside that fits into the axle pad. I boxed the blocks on the ends, and, for the final bit, tapered them, so, they are 4" at the bottom, and 10" at the top... Which, incidentally, matches the bottom spring width, giving more support, and a larger flex area, reducing wrap on the springs.

Now, lets step back, and think about your OPINION logically here for a second (and, let's face it, that's all it is at this point, you havent provided one single fact yet. You didnt even answer my question on which welds suck. I'm fully aware I can't weld stainless, if thats what you're reffering to, but, stainless should be tig welded and backpurged, but, thats a whole new discussion). Lift blocks are acceptable in the rear, right? Thats a commonly accepted OPINION. Ever hear of torque wrap? Im sure you have, thats the arguement you're trying to use against my front blocks. Why is it drivetrain induced torque wrap on the rear springs is any safer, or acceptable, than torque wrap in the front? You shit a block out either end, it's going to end badly.

I also don't care how popular this forum is... That's again, an irrelavent opinion that's not backed up with fact. There are plenty of others on here that do stuff just as "stupid" or dumber. Ever heard of unsprung weight, and how it should be at a ratio with the rest of the vehicle weight? yeah, rockwells and 46's violates that rule, especially under all these tube truggies. Ever hear of max RPM? yeah, pinion brakes violate that rule as well. The little toyota corrola discs you guys use on rockwells (even if its just a parking brake, even if you have real brakes at all 4 tires) are meant to do about 600 RPM at 60 MPH... Now, put that on a pinion, and put it on a street driven truck, that rotor is now doing around 4K RPM dependant on tire size at 60 MPH... that would be great if it fragged from the speeds and sent shrapnel through the car next to you on the interstate because you took "rediculous shortcuts" as you put it, and didnt put proper parking brakes on it at the corners. I worked in cast iron, cast iron rotors were NEVER designed to go that fast. Period.

Finally, I appreciate the namecalling. It really adds nothing to your ranting opinions, especially when they're not backed up with any kind of fact.

Going with a boost referenced, bypass FPR?

Modster,
Now, lets step back, and think about your OPINION logically here for a second (and, let's face it, that's all it is at this point, you havent provided one single fact yet. You didnt even answer my question on which welds suck. I'm fully aware I can't weld stainless, if thats what you're reffering to, but, stainless should be tig welded and backpurged, but, thats a whole new discussion). Lift blocks are acceptable in the rear, right? Thats a commonly accepted OPINION. Ever hear of torque wrap? Im sure you have, thats the arguement you're trying to use against my front blocks. Why is it drivetrain induced torque wrap on the rear springs is any safer, or acceptable, than torque wrap in the front? You shit a block out either end, it's going to end badly.


Spring wrap isn't the problem with front blocks, its the side load when turning. The rear axle doesnt experience this load, since the wheels are always 90* to the axle.
Will yours fail? Maybe not. But if they do, it will be in a tight turn or at high speed. Imagine making an evasive manuver to avoid a car and having the front axle fall out.
You even admit its illegal in some states. Why would you do it? Its a shitty, halfassed, dangerous way to gain lift. If you want to be cheap, make longer shackles and use a small zero rate to adjust the caster.

And sorry, but your welds look like crap. The exhaust is terrible.

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7555.jpg
http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7733.jpg

Agreed, the sheetmetal welds are rather pathetic as far as quality and you can say whatever you want about "building them up" so you can smooth them out, a real welder doesn't need to do that. And I am well aware of your 110 welder but in all honesty, I did most of my sheetmetal welding with a 90A 110V Mig running 75/25 and it did very well. Sheetmetal is not heavy steel and requires a completely different technique to welding to prevent a lot of warping. Your welding may be fine for your vehicle, and that's fine since you only have to really satisfy yourself but when you put paint to it, you will see that the panels will look like you beat them with a hammer.

As for Wisconsin law, I did check and it seems Wisconsin code has precious little when it comes to highway laws and no, I did not find anything about front lift blocks. I posted the laws from my own state since you seem to think Michigan was the only one with front block laws. Stop reading the "laws" on lifted truck sites that haven't been updated in 7 or 8 years. Either way, just because you can, does not mean you should.

Ak F250 is right on the additional point of the side load while turning but I feel the spring wrap is worse since it changes the caster angle. How drivable is a vehicle at speed when the front axle can rotate rearward with every bump? Imagine what that does to your caster angle and toe in. It may be acceptable for you to deal with that, but I don't want to and I don't anyone in an oncoming lane with me to have to deal with it. The tapered block may help a little but with wimpy 3/4 ton M37 springs, I don't think it's going to matter. The added leverage is there because of the height of the block and the springs will flex under the weight and forward momentum of the truck, especially with a B series big block up front. About all that tapered block is going to do is increase your chances of snapping a main leaf on those 60 year old springs.

And as far as my post count and being an E-thug, welcome to Pirate. We don't tolerate bullshit here and many will step up to put you in your place when posting stupid bullshit. If you look around you will find all of the best off road fabricators here, all of the best parts manufacturers here, in short, the best the off road world has to offer. I'm not of that caliber and in comparison to many, my post count is very low but I am here to learn what I can form those better than I and to teach what I can to those not as informed as I am on certain topics. Mainly Dodge D & W series trucks, most military vehicles and what a stupid ass Obama is. If you get butthurt real easy, Pirate is not for you. You have to roll with the punches and come back with something better than before. Not necessarily witty insults, but better fab, better design and better attitude. Respect is earned here and is quickly taken away. It's mob mentality at it's finest and we weed out the soft skinned like Sparta weeded out retards. :flipoff2:

I am a E-thug

You obviously did not take the time to look around much before posting here did you there bigevildodge?

Take it for what it is and learn from it.

Also, you are gonna have that fuel tank you welded pressure tested right?

Bigeveildodge, you need to lighten up a little bit and realize that Elwenil is simply trying to look out for you, and help you out with things. Obviously how you build your vehicle has nothing to do with his safety, but it does your own. He's not trying to be a dick here, he's trying to look out for yours and others safety. He's a very smart guy and knows his shit when it comes to Dodges, don't go stepping on toes when you've just gotten here. He contributes a lot to this board along with thousands of others. Be thankful there's people like him here that aren't afraid of hurting someone's feelings a little bit to tell them how it is. I myself, and I'm sure alot of others appreciate you sharing your build, and I intend to take the time and look through it all.

You have a seriously heavy truck.. Agreed? Now go slam on the brakes at 60+ mph. Guess what, you are putting nearly all of the trucks weight on the front end. That is a fact. You are also using almost all of your traction on the front tires, also a fact. Now you are asking for your old ass springs to keep that axle under the vehicle with the ADDED leverage you now have with the blocks. Now try getting that much traction, weight, etc. on the rear axle. THAT is why they are illegal in MOST states on the front axle and not on the rear.
And I agree, it may never have a problem, as long as you don't stress it, but it will almost always be at the worst time when it does, when you really need it to hold up it won't.
I have never ran a block in the front because it is obvious to me how much stress I am putting on the thing.
Take it for what you will.


Oh and by the way, I'm jealous, I want to find an OLD power wagon to fix up, just so damn hard to find up here.....

Thanks for the backup 98ZJ, but I was being a little bit of a dick in my second post in this thread, lol. The front block thing is a pet peeve of mine and I get somewhat irritated when someone starts arguing against common sense in their headlong rush to commit vehicular suicide. Sort of reminds me of Lemmings.

Ok lets end the arguing with bigevildodge now. He's already doing this, he's got quiet a bit of this done, and he has his mind set on what and how he is going to do this. Other opinions have been presented to him and he has let us know what he thinks of the opinions.

Why keep talking about it?? Obviously no ones mind is going to be changed here. Let him continue on with the thread and so the rest of us can see the end result.

Sincerely,

E-Thug.

Ok lets end the arguing with bigevildodge now. He's already doing this, he's got quiet a bit of this done, and he has his mind set on what and how he is going to do this. Other opinions have been presented to him and he has let us know what he thinks of the opinions.

Why keep talking about it?? Obviously no ones mind is going to be changed here. Let him continue on with the thread and so the rest of us can see the end result.

Sincerely,

E-Thug.

You take all the fun out of it E-thug.

Why you got your panties in a twist?

wow, you guys are pretty touchy about the E thug thing...:D good thing I didnt get my panties in a twist about all the names I was called, we'd get nowhere...:laughing:

I find this entertaining more than anything at this point.

So, let's say I do listen to all you knuckledraggers and replace the front springs.:flipoff2: Where do I get a set of completely custom springs, and, how do you go about making sure they do what I need them to do, and how much am I looking at?

You take all the fun out of it E-thug.

Why you got your panties in a twist?

(Talking in 3rd person)
Cus E-Thug wants more pictures and less reading.

wow, you guys are pretty touchy about the E thug thing...:D good thing I didnt get my panties in a twist about all the names I was called, we'd get nowhere...:laughing:

I find this entertaining more than anything at this point.

My panties are in a twist. Now get back to work.

Are you doing any brake upgrades, or are you planning on stopping all of that with 4 wheel drums? No, I didn't read your thread over there, just scanned for pics.
Travis..

I think he's running D60s, so he at least has discs up front.

As for custom springs, you should have a spring shop somewhere near you that can do it or if you have deeper pockets and want some flex, get your measurements and weight specs and call Alcan Spring. I'd take the opportunity to switch to a more common 2.5" leaf as I think M37s have the old narrow style leaf springs like my M715 did. You will have to modify the mounts naturally, but I think a swap to more modern GM or Dodge spring mounts and shackles would be a upgrade. In fact, if you are really wanting to keep the M37 springs, you could just build lower mounts to get lift, but I still think you are going to run into trouble with the M37 leafs holding up that big block and still performing off road. Just my .02

Are you doing any brake upgrades, or are you planning on stopping all of that with 4 wheel drums? No, I didn't read your thread over there, just scanned for pics.
Travis..

Im running 4 wheel disc, with an upgraded dual circuit master cylinder (stocker only had one).

I think he's running D60s, so he at least has discs up front.

As for custom springs, you should have a spring shop somewhere near you that can do it or if you have deeper pockets and want some flex, get your measurements and weight specs and call Alcan Spring. I'd take the opportunity to switch to a more common 2.5" leaf as I think M37s have the old narrow style leaf springs like my M715 did. You will have to modify the mounts naturally, but I think a swap to more modern GM or Dodge spring mounts and shackles would be a upgrade. In fact, if you are really wanting to keep the M37 springs, you could just build lower mounts to get lift, but I still think you are going to run into trouble with the M37 leafs holding up that big block and still performing off road. Just my .02

The 230 inline 6 wasn't much lighter than a 400. A 400 weighs about 700 lbs, maybe 750 fully dressed with the air compressor. Mine probably weighs 800 with the turbos on it. The 230 weighed at least 400, probably 550 fully dressed with alternator, regulator, oil fiter can, etc. Then I scrapped all that archaic wiring and voltage regulator, and am putting in a proper alternator, generator, and fusebox, so, yes, it is somewhat heavier, but, it's not 2X heavier.

I'm looking into adding some leafs, and getting them rearched. My lift blocks will go in the back then...:flipoff2:

Good call.....

Based on research I've done, having new springs made will be cheaper than getting the ones you have rearched. Plus how old are they? Rearching may destroy them.

thats what the shop told me as well. Im trying to find some NOS ones to have them rearch. Mine have sagged 3"... as thats how tall my blocks are, and, the truck sits level, so, if I find a set of NOS ones, I'll only have to have them pulled 3", instead of 6" as the current ones would need.

Good info on rearching, thamks for posting.

Why not just have them build you new springs?

he didn't quote them, but, he said I wouldnt like the price...

reached a milestone last night:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7749.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7751.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7754.jpg

4 wheel discs... No calipers yet, waiting till I need them, so, I can spend the cash on stuff I need now:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7756.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7757.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7758.jpg

got the brake and clutch pedals done:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7759.jpg

plenty of space for the clutch and starter:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7760.jpg

speaking of clutches... this one is rated to 800 ft-lb...

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7761.jpg

fits just like I mocked it up:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7762.jpg

even the tourque limiter lined back up:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7764.jpg

thats a mean lookin big block:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7765.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7768.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7769.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7770.jpg

Why wrap the headers?

stainless steel tubes, so, wrap wont make them rust out. They come close to a lot of stuff, like, the valve covers, and, the wrap helps hold the heat in and get it to the turbo, rather than everything around it.

That and it covers the nasty looking welds, lol. Sorry, had to say it and I fully admit I did the same once with a set of headers I modified/repaired before I could weld worth a damn. Beware spilling oil on that wrap as it soaks up oil like a wick and will burn for hours once it gets hot enough. If you spill anything on it, hose it down with water for a while to rinse it before firing it up again.

there is that reason too... Hey, if you cant make it nice, hide it. At least now it doesnt look bad, and, besides, I already said I can't MIG stainless worth a shit.

stainless steel tubes, so, wrap wont make them rust out. They come close to a lot of stuff, like, the valve covers, and, the wrap helps hold the heat in and get it to the turbo, rather than everything around it.

Usually its not the out side elelments, is condensation inside the exhaust system that causes rust like that.

That wrap won't last too long if your mudding it.

And looking at you intake system, where are your air cleaners gonna go?

gonna run one bigassed Donaldson cannister filter, either up on the firewall, or, most likely, sitting out on the passengers fender, and a 4" snorkel pipe up the side of the cab on the passengers side feeding that. the Y pipe needs work, its very rough right now. It'll have to be cut back apart and modified some.

Are you oil drain lines from the turbo(s) in the pan higher than the oil level? If not you will have turbo oil issues.. Build looks great!!

Looking good man! I can't wait to hear that thing with those turbos. Glad to see you posting pics on here now too! Do you have an ETA?

Elwenil- No problem bud. I really admire you and all of your mopar knowledge and know that you are just here to help people out. I understand about being a dick sometimes trust me, I do it too. It's just important that we are man enough to admit it when it does happen! Glad everyone is getting along now. This is a cool build and I'm excited to see how it goes.

Are you oil drain lines from the turbo(s) in the pan higher than the oil level? If not you will have turbo oil issues.. Build looks great!!

Rock,

They are higher. About 1/2" above oil level. I had a friend that learned that one the hard way!

Looking good man! I can't wait to hear that thing with those turbos. Glad to see you posting pics on here now too! Do you have an ETA?

Elwenil- No problem bud. I really admire you and all of your mopar knowledge and know that you are just here to help people out. I understand about being a dick sometimes trust me, I do it too. It's just important that we are man enough to admit it when it does happen! Glad everyone is getting along now. This is a cool build and I'm excited to see how it goes.

Hopefully it'll run in about a month, and be drivable mid next summer. I'll hvae to call it off for the season in about 2 1/2 months, so, its crunch time now. I've sold a bunch of spare parts so, I got some cash now to get more needed parts. Next on the list is a set of rear shocks, so I can put my twotanks in. Then, finish the tanks, run fuel lines, put a carb on it, put a coil on it, get some wire to make a temporary harness, and I can light it!

Please take some video of you starting it for the first time! I can't wait.

To damn sweet. :smokin:

It is a sweet build, but I have to ask, why turbos instead of putting a nice blower set up on it or building it like a raped ape?

It is a sweet build, but I have to ask, why turbos instead of putting a nice blower set up on it or building it like a raped ape?

because everyone expects a built big block, or an eaton blower... no one exer expects a big pair of twins under the hood, and, as we guys all know... good things come in pairs...:D

because everyone expects a built big block, or an eaton blower... no one exer expects a big pair of twins under the hood, and, as we guys all know... good things come in pairs...:D

Are those fresh turbo's or do they have hours on them? Are you gonna wrap the exhaust side like you did the headers?

Are those fresh turbo's or do they have hours on them? Are you gonna wrap the exhaust side like you did the headers?

they have about 100K miles on them, still nice and tight... No slop in the bearings.

they have about 100K miles on them, still nice and tight... No slop in the bearings.

Here's question my Engineman "A" School class Instructor asked when we stared talking about diesels and turbo's.

"What is the rpm ratio between the exhaust side and the compressor side of a turbo?"

Wow there were some really strange answers.

The reason I asked about wrapping them, it those suckers are gonna be throwing some serious heat and being that close to your hood could damage a paint job.

What is your reasoning behind your trans choice? I understand it is heavy duty, but why such a crude trans behind a hot-rod big block?
Travis..

Here's question my Engineman "A" School class Instructor asked when we stared talking about diesels and turbo's.

"What is the rpm ratio between the exhaust side and the compressor side of a turbo?"

Wow there were some really strange answers.

The reason I asked about wrapping them, it those suckers are gonna be throwing some serious heat and being that close to your hood could damage a paint job.

I'm going to probably get some turbine housing heat blankets for that exact reason.

What is your reasoning behind your trans choice? I understand it is heavy duty, but why such a crude trans behind a hot-rod big block?
Travis..

Simple: I dont like automatics, and stick shifts are arguably cheaper to build for power. Only downside to it is the close ratio 1st gear. Truck has about 1/2 the crawl ratio of original, but, its also got 6X the power.

What transfer case, transmission and big block mopar are these again?

400 big block, NP445, NP203.

Reason for the 203 is I want the full time 4WD... With that much power, and a 65/35 weight split, RWD qould be scary on anythin but dry pavement.

I might have missed it but what turbos are those?

7 blade HX35W's from late 90's early 2000's Dodge 5.9 diesels.

How much boost are you anticipating?

How much boost are you anticipating?


5 PSI.... to start. :smokin:

5 PSI.... to start. :smokin:

you know those are capable of 50lbs of boost a piece right (scary at the pressure but can be done).......should be 50mm (i think, I cant remember a stock HX35's inlet) on the inducers......

you know those are capable of 50lbs of boost a piece right (scary at the pressure but can be done).......should be 50mm (i think, I cant remember a stock HX35's inlet) on the inducers......

I think your gonna have to keep your foot in it to get any kind of noticable boost. A 440 power band is low, and those turbos were designed for a diesel's higher rpm power band. Getting them to spool up and give boost is gonna be spendy on the gas tank.

on a ford 2.3 single cammer they will build 12 PSI of boost with a good header and exhaust by 2300 RPM... I think the 3.0L a turbo I have, ported heads, wrapped headers, and 3" straight pipes will get the job done just fine.

I think your gonna have to keep your foot in it to get any kind of noticable boost. A 440 power band is low, and those turbos were designed for a diesel's higher rpm power band. Getting them to spool up and give boost is gonna be spendy on the gas tank.

5.9 cummins makes max horsepower at 2500 RPM's and max torque at 1600 RPM's......

Now, plan on ALOT of lag because you only have 220 cubic inches trying to spool those turbos seperately......that is alot of turbo for that small of cubic inches......

It's a 400 B series engine, not an RB 440.

It's a 400 B series engine, not an RB 440.

even worse, only 200 cubic inches of air trying to spool those turbos.....

I just think all the work being done by digevildodge for only 5 psi of boost is a bit much.

to me 5 psi hardly seems worth it.

Those turbos are designed for a 6 cylinder with a higher compression ratio than a 440 has.

I just think all the work being done by digevildodge for only 5 psi of boost is a bit much.

to me 5 psi hardly seems worth it.

Those turbos are designed for a 6 cylinder with a higher compression ratio than a 440 has.

like twice the compression.......

I always love the lack of knowledge of turbosystems displayed on the PBB.

The HX35s he is using will be SMALL for a big block. At least he is using a pair of them so he has a chance at making some decent power.

You guys do realize that a lot of 4 cyl guys use these turbos and feel they are too small for their applications, right?

Yea my friend had one of those on a 1.6 honda motor spooled at 2400rpms he upgraded turbo was to small.

I think 5 psi is a good place to start and probably finish. Take a look at what these turbos are huffing into. A smog motor big block that is known to be a thinner wall casting than the earlier blocks. A set of low compression cast pistons designed not to handle any boost attached to a cast crank that may last. A cam again designed to idle in a Cordoba. This is your project take this advice for what it is, but you really need to focus on the project as a sum of all of its parts. Lifting the hood to show off your twins really might lose some of its cool factor with a gaping hole in the side of the block where late seventies era parts escaped. Use that engine for mock up and invest in good guts to handle what you are thinking of doing. I am not trying to be the E-thug just trying to help you enjoy your finished product a little longer. :flipoff2:

I know its going to eat itself. I paid $500 for the engine, trans, transmission, mounts, bellhousing, flywheel, driveshafts, etc, etc etc. I PLAN on it blowing up, and blowing it up sooner, rather than later. Thats the point, its a disposable drivetrain. Its not a rare thick wall high po 383 worth big bucks, with an NV4500 and married NP205 in it... its a $500 slog head big block with the full time 4x4 drivetrain no one wants. The reason for picking it is, it will make more than enough power to scare the crap out of me for a few years until I can build a proper EFI controlled powerplant and drivetrain to go into it (and the cast pistons, rods, and crank will survive just fine for a few years, so long as I keep EGT's and AFR's in check, which I'll be keeping track of with thermocouples and dual widebands, one on each bank). I haven't driven the truck in 5 years, and, Im sick of watching it sit and rust, so, this will get it moving for now, until I have 5K laying around to build an engine for it.:flipoff2:

As far as boost pressures, volume makes power, not pressure. 2 PSI on a railroad engine turbo will make more power that 55 PSI on a weedwacker turbo.

Air has oxygen. Oxygen burns fuel. I can have a room full of air at 5 PSI, and it will have more oxygen in it than a shoebox full at 45 PSI.

Conparing diesel and gas engines isn't even close to a fair comparison. They operate on different dynamics, at different thermal and pressure efficiencies, on different fuels, at different RPMs, with differnt combustion speeds, different forms of ignition, different combustion timing, etc etc etc. What matters is FLOW. The guys that are saying it's too much turbo need to go learn how to read a compressor map... they'll quickly understand that, they are, in fact, undersized for my engine, as stated above, but, its all a balance of flow, pressure, response, lag, and efficiency. I picked the 35's because they are cheap, easy to find, a good bang for the buck, will provide excellent low end torque and throttle response, tolerant of a wide range of temperatures and oil flow conditions, and, when run well below their normal diesel operating pressure, will live for forever.

This is not my first turbo system setup, it's actually my 5th, and my 4th turbo vehicle, the 3rd of which Ive boosted myself.

oh, one more thing...

Even if we go with everyone else's logic around here and say "Well the cummins has only one on it"

When was the last time ANY vehicle that's boosted by the OEM had enough turbo on it?:D If it was enough turbo, teh cummins guys wouldnt be yanking them off and putting bigger sequential kits on, now would they?:flipoff2:


EDIT:

On my last turbo system I put together was a ford escort... Stock its 88 HP, 110 ft-lb at the crank. When I was done, it made 166 HP, and 210 ft-lb at 9 PSI, at the wheels on a crap tune (AFRS creeping up into the high 13's) on a stock engine. Ran like that for 8K miles, daily driven. Whenit finally dropped a valve seat and ate itself, I got another for $50, and 6 hours later, was boosting again... AH HAHAHAHAHA! Disposable motors are the best.

I know its going to eat itself. I paid $500 for the engine, trans, transmission, mounts, bellhousing, flywheel, driveshafts, etc, etc etc. I PLAN on it blowing up, and blowing it up sooner, rather than later. Thats the point, its a disposable drivetrain. Its not a rare thick wall high po 383 worth big bucks, with an NV4500 and married NP205 in it... its a $500 slog head big block with the full time 4x4 drivetrain no one wants. The reason for picking it is, it will make more than enough power to scare the crap out of me for a few years until I can build a proper EFI controlled powerplant and drivetrain to go into it (and the cast pistons, rods, and crank will survive just fine for a few years, so long as I keep EGT's and AFR's in check, which I'll be keeping track of with thermocouples and dual widebands, one on each bank). I haven't driven the truck in 5 years, and, Im sick of watching it sit and rust, so, this will get it moving for now, until I have 5K laying around to build an engine for it.:flipoff2:



Wow, I thought it, you proved it. All the time, money and work put into this supposedly bad ass twin turbo set up on a 400 of all things, just to kill it. What a friggin waste.

With what youve done, you be that much closer to that efi setup.

The block will be fine see : http://www.440source.com/blockinfo.htm
Nice M37

Cummins 5.9 12V Specs

Displacement: 359 cubic inches, 5.9 liters
Configuration: Inline 6 cylinder
Compression Ratio: 17.0:1
Bore: 4.02 inches
Stroke: 4.72 inches
Injection: Direct Injection:
Bosch VE injection pump (1989-1993).
Bosch P7100 injection pump (1994-1998).
Aspiration: Holset turbocharger
Valvetrain: OHV, 2 valves per cylinder, solid lifter camshaft
Oil Capacity: 11 quarts
Weight: approx. 975 lbs
*Horsepower: 160 - 215 HP @ 2,500 RPM
*Torque: 400 - 440 lb-ft @ 1,600 RPM

1973

V8-400 2-bbl 4.34 x 3.38 8.2:1 185 @ 3600 310 @ 2400 45-65
V8-400 4-bbl 4.34 x 3.38 8.2:1 260 @ 4800 335 @ 3600 45-65


To get the maximum amount of usable boost outta those turbos, your foot is gonna have to planted to the gas.

And yes I understand turbo systems and was a Cummins 5.9/6BT overhaul technician in the Navy.

Cummins 5.9 12V Specs

Displacement: 359 cubic inches, 5.9 liters
Configuration: Inline 6 cylinder
Compression Ratio: 17.0:1
Bore: 4.02 inches
Stroke: 4.72 inches
Injection: Direct Injection:
Bosch VE injection pump (1989-1993).
Bosch P7100 injection pump (1994-1998).
Aspiration: Holset turbocharger
Valvetrain: OHV, 2 valves per cylinder, solid lifter camshaft
Oil Capacity: 11 quarts
Weight: approx. 975 lbs
*Horsepower: 160 - 215 HP @ 2,500 RPM
*Torque: 400 - 440 lb-ft @ 1,600 RPM

A 440 engine has 10.5:1 compression ratio, with average peak HP @ 3200 RPM, with peak Torque @ 2800-3200 RPM.

To get the maximum amount of usable boost outta those turbos, your foot is gonna have to planted to the gas.

And yes I understand turbo systems and was a Cummins 5.9/6BT overhaul technician in the Navy.

:shaking: Diesels aren't the same as gassers.

ATTENTION:

For the last time (hopefully), his engine is a 400, NOT a 440.


:flipoff2:

:shaking: Diesels aren't the same as gassers.

Really? :eek:

OK, lets break this down...

First off, its a 400, not a 440.

second of all, this is the HX35 map, at least it supposedly is. Cummins guards them very secretly, so, its a "best guess" on the HX35. the 30 map is out there, and, based on it, this seems to be a good guesstimate:

http://www.eric-o.com/images/volvoturbo/hx35w.jpg

Generally speaking, an iron head, iron block, gas engine running on 93 octane is limited to an 8.5 maybe 9 to one ratio and still be able to maintain a bar of boost. Since the 400 is lower, it will be able to maintain that, and be carbed, as the slightly lower ratio allows for the fluctuations seen with a carb.

now, on the map, it's measured in lb/min of airflow. My 400 has twins on it, so, each one is spooled by 200 CID. Now, we have to first figure some points, and then figure CFM at those RPMs.

we'll do: 2K, 3K, 4K, 5K, and 6K, just for the hell of it.

CFM is CID times RPM divded by 3456.

Crunch those numbers, and you get 115, 173, 230, 288, and 347 CFM per bank.

to get lb/min, you multiply CFM times 29 times your ABSOLUTE pressure, and divide the whole thing by 10.73 times your degrees rankin (degrees F plus 460). So, lets say I'll eventually work my way up to 15 PSI, since, you think 5 PSI is a waste.

do that, and, based on 15PSIG, and 80*F, we get 17.3, 26, 34.7, 43.4, and 52.3.

now, this is gross airflow, we have to multiply it by 80% to account for engine VE.

do that, and we get: 13.8, 20.8, 27.76, 34.7, and 41.84.

now, there are othe factors, like inertia of the turbines, intercooler temperature reduction, etc, but, for picking a turbo size, this will do.

if we go back to the map, you'll see that coming across the map at a ratio of 2.0 (29 PSIA/14.7 ambient pressure)

at 2K RPM, we're right below spool, at 3K RPM, we're fully spooled, and building good boost, at 4K RPM, we're at max efficiency (and max torque for the 400 from 3K to 4K... huh, wonder how that happened?:flipoff2:), at 5K, we're past peak and coming down the efficiency curves, and at 6K, we're really starting to bleed efficiency because we're getting to the point where the TURBO IS A CRACK TOO SMALL!!!!

Get it now?

AH HAHAHAHAHA! Disposable motors are the best.

I kinda want my engines in my vehicles to last longer than 8k.

If I drive the truck to and from work, 5 days a week, 100 miles every weekend, and throw in a car show and weekend trip here and there 8 months of the year, I'll put just over 4K a year on. That gives me 2 years from now to build an EFI monster for it.

and go back and read my last post on Page 3 and try and tell me Im wrong again.

You're arguing with an engineer. I've run the numbers on everything.

If I drive the truck to and from work, 5 days a week, 200 miles every weekend, and throw in a car show and weekend trip here and there 8 months of the year, I'll put just over 4K a year on. That gives me 2 years from now to build an EFI monster for it.

and go back and read my last post on Page 3 and try and tell me Im wrong again.

You're arguing with an engineer. I've run the numbers on everything.

Well that explains it.

I was an engineer to, USN Main Propulsion/Auxilluary Systems Engineer.

I read your post, I still say running @ 3-4k RPM is gonna kill your gas tank. Which is what I was saying in the first place.

oh, no doubt, shes gonna be thirsty! LOL!

BOOOOOOOMMMMMM :flipoff2: post pics of oil pan or the block when done if you cant put your hand in it you fail :D

Well that explains it.

I was an engineer to, USN Main Propulsion/Auxilluary Systems Engineer.

I read your post, I still say running @ 3-4k RPM is gonna kill your gas tank. Which is what I was saying in the first place.

I'll second that, I had a 450HP 440 in my M-715, with 5.38s and 38" Boggers, that truck got a BEST of 7 MPG rolling at 55 MPH, it was usually around 4-5 MPG. I loved the tuck, but even when gas was a buck and a half a gallon it was an expensive ride no matter where I went.

I kinda want my engines in my vehicles to last longer than 8k.

Just because you do doesn't mean that everybody thinks the same. You obviously don't understand gasoline turbo engines so why would you understand this point either?

There are lots of people who make their tuning mistakes and learn on stock grenade motors. In fact, with a good tune a stock motor that is blown or turboed can live a long time with a good tune.

Here's a suggestion: maybe you should go over and READ on turbomustangs.com. Maybe then you will understand how things work and what is common practice on gas turbo motors.

BOOOOOOOMMMMMM :flipoff2: post pics of oil pan or the block when done if you cant put your hand in it you fail :D

I bet you that he doesn't window the block or oil pan. He will likely either take the crown off of a piston and/or break a ring land.



All that said, I really don't care for the project personally, but bigevildodge does seem to have a grasp on turbo systems. Once again, the PBB is bringing the funnay with turbo discussions.

BOOOOOOOMMMMMM :flipoff2: post pics of oil pan or the block when done if you cant put your hand in it you fail :D

I could blow her up nicely in 5 minutes. Thats not the point. The point is to get it all set up on a cheap, disposable motor, so that if something does go wrong, Its a 500 dollar mistake, not a 5000 dollar one.

I bet you that he doesn't window the block or oil pan. He will likely either take the crown off of a piston and/or break a ring land.


agreed. That's why I'll be running thermocouples... keep an eye on the temps coming out, so I know how hot those "fragile" cast slugs are getting. Keep em cool, they'll be fine.

And, one last thing... A little surprise.


I'll be injecting pure toluene under the carb for detonation and temperature control. Save your breath on telling me I should spray alcohol. I'm conducting some experiments.

Toluene is the main ingredient in race gas. By spraying toluene under boost, I can keep the motor together, reduce the chance of piston wrecking knock, and, buy 87 octane instead of 93 octane. That will let me run more boost, and save me $6 a fillup. Multiply this by the 16 tanks a year I need to get 4K miles (assuming 10 MPG) And I'll save $100 a year. System will pay for itself in less than a year. I'll be doing my own homemade thing.

More details to come...

.

Here's a suggestion: maybe you should go over and READ on turbomustangs.com. Maybe then you will understand how things work and what is common practice on gas turbo motors.

All that said, I really don't care for the project personally, but bigevildodge does seem to have a grasp on turbo systems. Once again, the PBB is bringing the funnay with turbo discussions.

My opinion, turbos belong on diesels, period. But thats my opinion.

I would rather build a raped ape motor with hi-performance parts and quality build that will last me a good wihile.

I hate pissing my money away. I work way to friggin hard for it to buy a disposable power plant.

Also you must be a turbo genius.

My opinion, turbos belong on diesels, period. But thats my opinion.

I would rather build a raped ape motor with hi-performance parts and quality build that will last me a good wihile.

I hate pissing my money away. I work way to friggin hard for it to buy a disposable power plant.

Also you must be a turbo genius.

Cant tell if youre being serious, or a smartass, but, thanks, haha!!

the whole point of this project is something different. I could go drop a crate motor in it, or, a 383 stroker, or, any of a variety of possibly cheaper or more powerful options, but, its like my turbo escort... I did it because its different, cheap (relatively), fun, and unique.

Also you must be a turbo genius.

I've been around a few...

Maybe you'll tell me I'm retarded for putting an S480 on a 440 too and how it will never work since it was for a big displacement high compression diesel engine. I guess I'll have to rev it up to 10k rpm to get any boost huh? :laughing:



bigevildodge, is there any reason why you're planning on running gasoline and injecting toluene rather than just running E85? Most of the guys around here (including myself) are running it with good results.

I can't say I think turbos belong on diesels only. Actually I don't really even think about a diesel when I think of the word "turbo". I think more about my old SRT-4, or maybe a WRX or Evo. Turbos fit real nice on a gas engine and kick some serious ass.

I've been around a few...

Maybe you'll tell me I'm retarded for putting an S480 on a 440 too and how it will never work since it was for a big displacement high compression diesel engine. I guess I'll have to rev it up to 10k rpm to get any boost huh? :laughing:



bigevildodge, is there any reason why you're planning on running gasoline and injecting toluene rather than just running E85? Most of the guys around here (including myself) are running it with good results.

its hard to find around here... there is only one station and its the same price as gas.

I've been around a few...

Maybe you'll tell me I'm retarded for putting an S480 on a 440 too and how it will never work since it was for a big displacement high compression diesel engine. I guess I'll have to rev it up to 10k rpm to get any boost huh? :laughing:



bigevildodge, is there any reason why you're planning on running gasoline and injecting toluene rather than just running E85? Most of the guys around here (including myself) are running it with good results.

got a link to your build page? what are you putting that monster in? I thought about doing a big single, an S400, but, decided that twins would give me a bit better response, and make plumbing the tubes much, muhc easier.

Other reason for the toluene, is that I dont have room for an intercooler, so, I need to do something to control the heat.

its hard to find around here... there is only one station and its the same price as gas.

Makes sense then. I would have figured that you would have had plenty of options living in the midwest. The last two places I have lived have never had a shortage of stations with e85.

Need updates.
It looks like the thread on g741 died earlier this month.

got a link to your build page? what are you putting that monster in? I thought about doing a big single, an S400, but, decided that twins would give me a bit better response, and make plumbing the tubes much, muhc easier.

Other reason for the toluene, is that I dont have room for an intercooler, so, I need to do something to control the heat.

I missed this post earlier. No, I don't have any build thread or pics of anything at this point. It is going in a car so it isn't exactly geared toward the pirate crowd. It is just another cast crank grenade motor like yours right now. I'd like to see 800hp with it, but that might be a bit overzealous on the stock shortblock, even with good tuning.

In my experience, packaging issues and bragging rights would be the only reasons I would ever consider going with a parallel twin turbo setup. A properly sized single should respond well and get the job done without complicating things.

Considering that you are going blowthrough carby (at least for now) you probably wouldn't need to rely on the toluene as a chemical intercooler. In blowthrough carb applications the fuel kind of acts as an intercooler as well.

I missed this post earlier. No, I don't have any build thread or pics of anything at this point. It is going in a car so it isn't exactly geared toward the pirate crowd. It is just another cast crank grenade motor like yours right now. I'd like to see 800hp with it, but that might be a bit overzealous on the stock shortblock, even with good tuning.

In my experience, packaging issues and bragging rights would be the only reasons I would ever consider going with a parallel twin turbo setup. A properly sized single should respond well and get the job done without complicating things.

Considering that you are going blowthrough carby (at least for now) you probably wouldn't need to rely on the toluene as a chemical intercooler. In blowthrough carb applications the fuel kind of acts as an intercooler as well.

agreed. Im doing it 1/2 to see if it works, and 1/2 to allow me to get away on regular, instead of premium.

I'll put up some updates here shortly. I've been working on it, but, a lot of what Im doing is time consuming with not much ohhh and ahhhhhh from picutures, like, fixing my leaky-assed fuel tank :D

got the tank lined, and painted, and in the frame:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7818.jpg

Walbro pump mounted:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7819.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7820.jpg

still have to plumb in the return line...

Pump or the far right is the converted saginaw steering pump for driving the winch. I retrofitted it with an A/C electric clutch so it's not turning unless Im using the winch

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7822.jpg

String shows the belt routing. Alternator isn't in the picture here, so, the one string would go to the left, around the pulley for it.

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7823.jpg

still need to finish the adjuster bracket for the belt tension...

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7826.jpg

finished the adjuster for the winch pump. I dont like the old slotted pinch bolt type brackets, so, I cooked this up. Might make one like it for the alternator and power steering pump adjustment as well:



http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7838.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7841.jpg

Fully in:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7837.jpg

Fully out:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7839.jpg

And a NICE weld I laid on the bracket... on the back side of course... haha

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7829.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7828.jpg

Then, I moved on to some body work, since, Im out of cash for the time being. I worked on fixing the bed floor. I was going to use the AZ body bed floor, but, it had more dents, holes, and tears in it than I remembered, so I decided to use it for patch panels to fix the original floor:

Original floor:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7842.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7843.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7844.jpg

after bumping most of the dents out:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7845.jpg

And, first patch panel:

Original:
http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7846.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7847.jpg

New:
http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7848.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7849.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7851.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7852.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7853.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7854.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7855.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7857.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7861.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7862.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7866.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7867.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7873.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7878.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7881.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7882.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7883.jpg

and the repairs from the top side. I gotta weld them in from teh top, then take the flapper wheel to them.

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7891.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7892.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7893.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7894.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7895.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7896.jpg

I've seen this bad boy over on HomeMadeTurbo.com. Should be a beast :smokin:

I've spent a few hours in a chemistry lab and have experience with it, but where would you get it in enough quantity commercially?

Im assuming your refering to the toluene?

It's easy:

Sherwin Williams.

Why not water/meth injection?

Why not water/meth injection?

everyone's done water/meth to death. I wanna try something new. Im also banking on it being powerful enough of a chemical intercooler and knock resistor I can get away with filling ti with regular, instead of premium, whihc will save me $6 a fillup.

Ok, so how much does the toluene cost?

its cheaper in bulk, you can get 5 gallons for around $8 a gallon. If you but it by the gallon, its closer to 12.

Toulene is an excellent addative, I have used it and polypropanol with good success in both naturally aspirrated and forced induction motors. Helps that I can get it for free from a few of the customers I service at work.

So what are the benifits of toluene?

big thing is that it's the primary ingredient in octane booster, and race gas. its what makes them what they are. Back in the 80's, formula 1 cars ran on an 80% toluene mix, and around 50 PSI of turbo boost and delivered 1K HP per liter of displacement. Yes, you read that right, 1HP PER CC!!

Granted, running it in concentrations of over 20% requires some specialized handling and pretreatment, so, I only plan on adding around 5% by volume. That should eb enough to help my cast beast hold together and make decent power.


Did some more "Free" work today... My parents brought the new cab down from their place, so, now I officially have all the parts at my place. The new body is rust free, except for the battery box. Someone must have spilt a whole lotta acid at one point in time, cause there is absolutely nothing left of the floor under the box, so, I spent this evening stripping the new tub, and fixing that mess:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7899.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7900.jpg

I've got plans for this, and they involve leaving it just as it is:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7901.jpg

Stripped:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7902.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7904.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7905.jpg

And, on with the NASTY:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7906.jpg

looked bad, but, the further I got, the more and more a realized, it was BAD!!!!!!

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7907.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7908.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7910.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7912.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7915.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7916.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7919.jpg

Man, what a hole:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7921.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7922.jpg

and, the fix:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7913.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7925.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7926.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7927.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7931.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7932.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7937.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7934.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7939.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7940.jpg

Next stop, bumping up the doghouse for the new T case:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_7942.jpg

and no, its not done. I gotta grind the welds, and, fill in the gaps front and rear. When I cut the original battery box out for the patch panel, I had no idea it spanned the entire length of the floor, so, yeah, gotta bend up some sheet to finish the gaps front and rear, but, that shouldn't be bad.

Man this thing is :smokin:

dude thats pritty sweet

Do you still have the old cab and if so would you be interested in cutting the cowl section off and selling it?

old cab is gone, sorry, and, it was all rotten in the vent gutter anyways... It had all the typical rot...

well, she's put away for the winter, but, that doesnt mean the work stops, it just means it evolves... I decided to go EFI. I was going to do carb, but, I couldnt justify the $1200 price tag for a custom built carb when I can do EFI with distributorless ignition mapping and boost retard control for a grand more...

http://sdsefi.com/

Comes with everything but throttle bodies, fuel rails, and injectors, (all of the sensors, harness, interface tool, etc, just plug it in, hook it up to power, and start tuning). I got two F*rd 65mm 4.6L throttle bodies at the junkyard last weekend for $10 each. 65mm is 2.55 inches, which is the same size as the turbocharger discharges, so that works out nice. to get the air into the intake, I drew up an intake manifold design:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/runners3.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/runners2.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/runners.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/plenumbottom2.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/plenumbottom3.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/plenumbottom4.jpg

the runners are tall because they integrate an air to water intercooler core into each side. I plan on adding a pair of balance tubes between the grey plenum boxes, as well as cutting it down in height. It measures out at 15 inches on the model in height from the deck of the bock, but, I only have 13" of hood clearance. I'm pretty confident I can find the extra 2" needed, as my runners are pretty tall. I might go back and model it with the port shape transition and 45* curve mapped into one piece of tube... that would give me the 2" I need, but, be a real bear to draw, and form in real life... I'd like to find the 2" elsewhere, but, there isnt a whole lot of other places to get it. If all else fails, I dont run intercooled plenums, but, it sure would be nice. would be really sweet to connect the turbo discharges to the plenum intakes with a set of carbon fiber hard pipes... I might give it a shot and see how it goes. I played with carbon fiber at school, and, when done right, its gorgeous.

ok so what are you plans for this truck when its done? pavement pounder, mall cruiser, mudder, puller, ect???

ok so what are you plans for this truck when its done? pavement pounder, mall cruiser, mudder, puller, ect???


mostly on road and sand. I live just a few miles from the wisconsin side of the Lake Michigan ferry that comes out over near silver lake dunes in michigan. I figure sand is much easier on the body and such than rocks or deep mud, and when I get done with it it will be too nice to go flog it hard core in the rocks.

well i still like the build but sand is hard on equipment like bearnings and seals... and dont forget the turbos that the sand will eventually find its way into

sands not gonna get into the turbos, trust me. you'll see why in a few months.

All the joints on the old power wagons are greasable, so, as soon as Im done wheelin in sand, jsut give her a shot or two to work out any that got in.

I'd say sand will get in the turbos so long as you have air flowing through them. The military thought that their filtration systems were enough to keep sand out of their engines over in the sandbox found out that nothing really keeps it all out. Unless you are running something retarded like multiple inline oil bath air cleaners, prepare for sand.

how about a bigassed Donaldson cannister filter with their ultraweb filter (uses nanoparticles to filter to 99.99% efficiency)? got one at the local boneyard... a few weeks ago. Cannister is probably overkill... it's 18" long and 12" in diameter, but, it should do the job alright!

http://www.donaldson.com/en/engine/support/datalibrary/063312.pdf

http://www.donaldson.com/en/industrialair/literature/042627.pdf

Oh, and it's self cleaning. the way it works is the paper is simply a substrate. the surface of teh filter is where all the filtration happens, so vibration actually cleans the filter, as it causes the contamination ot shake ot of the filter, rather than bury further into the pleats. Also, as a result, there is no hours to peak efficiency, like a regular filter. It operates at peak efficiency right out of the box.

Nope, still going to get sand in it. Look at the filtration systems a M1 Abrams uses, or even a Blackhawk helo, and they get sand in them all the time. The only thing that defeats sand is more frequent maintenance.

This is true, my original MOS was Abrams tank hull mechanic. The tank crews would have to pull their V-Packs (air filters) and clean them every day. You should be OK though with a really good quality filter setup like you mentioned and frequent maintenance.

Regards,
Abrams

sand is a bitch:mad3: Ive only rode dirtbikes in it once or twice, but it hammered my bike:shaking:.
Lookin good on the build though, can tell theres gonna be alot of body work. Good luck

from what i've heard, the sand in the sandbox is a LOT finer than most of the sand around here, so maybe you will be alright? time will tell :smokin:

UPDATE:

Decided since I have read some horror stories of the stock steering arms not holdng up under the load of bigger tires and power steering, I would add hydraulic ram assist. Cost me just under $100 to do this.

AND: Before anyone gets on my case, the blocks are still under the front axle cause I'm having a bitch of a time finding NOS springs for the front, and its nto going to be hitting the road anytime soon so tehy're not hurting anything right now, so eat me.:flipoff2:


Parts list:

1) 2" bore X 8" stroke Lion double acting cylinder

1) 6"X12"X.25" plate of steel

2) 3/16"X2" cotter pins

2) 1" bore washers

2" 1" bore spherical bearings for tractor implement arms


The pictures are pretty self explanatory, but, the part not shown, or complete yet s the tap into the steering box. I'm going to rebuild the box, my kit will be here on wednesday, so, later this week I'll upload some of the rebuild and modifications to the box to run the ram. The ram should take between 60-75% of the load off of the steering box and related lnkages, so, this setup should have lower load on the factory link arms than the original manual steering.

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8207.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8208.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8210.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8211.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8212.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8214.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8216.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8217.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8220.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8222.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8225.jpg


http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8231.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8233.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8234.jpg

I rebuilt the steering box. was in desperate need of it. I also tapped the box for the power assist cylinder lines.

Also:

Redesigned my intake manifold, after reading this:

http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=127863

I plan on adding the fins through the slot, as he did, but, modeling them would have been a beast. I still haven't figured out how he did it, exactly!

I also have a trick up my sleeve on how I'm going to make them... you'll see further down.

One last addition is this, as well:

http://www.opcon.se/index.asp?sPage=1&langID=2&cID=15

They are VERY unique in how they function. A typical intercooler core relies on turbulent flow to get the most heat transfer, whereas with all the fins, a Laminova core is much, much more efficient due to the laminar flow of the air over the fins. I havent nailed down completely yet how I'm going to make them fit, but I've got a few ideas. Anyway, here are some pictures:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/plenumfinal1.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/plenumfinal2.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/plenumfinal3.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/plenumfinal4.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/plenumfinal5.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/plenumfinal6.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/plenumfinal10.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/plenumfinal7.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/plenumfinal8.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/plenumfinal9.jpg


As you all can tell from the model, that is one hellaciously complicated hunk of modern art/intake plenum. As such, I know anything I try to weld up will look terrible


so.....



I'm going to cast them.






First step is to make a positive mold. After a bit of debating, I decided to do a wood mold, as I have a decent array of wood tools (another one of my hobbies) and A wood mold is infinately reusable, so long as I am gentle with it. This way, if I dont get the gating or risers right, I simple cast another plaster mold around my wooden model and keep pouring till I get it right.

So, I started out by ripping a 2X4 dow to 14" long chunks squared off at 1.5"X2.75".

I glued 6 of these together, then another 6 to form two 14"X6"X2.75" blocks. The seam in between them is not glued, and that is intentional, you'll see why in a bit.

I then traced the respective patterns on each end using dimensions from teh computer model. Unfortunately, I dont have a printer, otehrwise I would have just printed each end view, cut it out, and glued it on. For Throttle Bodies, I'm going to use a pair of ford 65mm Mustang 4.6L bodies I got at my local you pull it yard for $10 each. 65mm is 2.55 inches, perforct for the 2.5: discharge out of the Holset turbos.

TB end:
http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8238.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8240.jpg

Opposite end:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8241.jpg

And, in this picture, you can see the reason for the seam in the middle:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8242.jpg

Next step was to trace and cut the taper on the Lehman Chamber:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8243.jpg

Then, deck the sides:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8244.jpg

then, go wild with the table saw, and remove as much material as possible:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8245.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8246.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8247.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8248.jpg

then, after making all these:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8261.jpg

And some sanding (I got smart and put an 80 grit flapper wheel on my 4 1/2" grinder... made on heck of a mess, bet it cleaned it up fast, especially those pesky knots!)
you get this:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8250.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8251.jpg

I like the candy stripe of the pine mixed with the red doug fir. I didnt do it on pupose, I just used what wood I had lying around

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8252.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8249.jpg

Then, ripped some 1/8" thick end plates oout of plywood on the tablesaw, and cut the profile on the scroll saw:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8255.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8257.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8258.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8260.jpg

And, I'm going to make a slight tweak to the original design. In the original design, I had a slot taken out between the runners. Im going to try to avoid doing that, and, instead, make a steel backing plate that will gasket joint to the face of the plenum. Then, steel runners down to teh heads. This is for two reasons: 1. servicability. I can disassemble the entire unit then. And 2. vibration. Long curvy cast aluminum runners would be a pain to make, and would most likely crack from theweight of such a large plenum hanging off the end.

to do that, I of course need a gasket surface, and that is what this is for:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8256.jpg

I'll glue that onto the wood model, so that I get a nice thick cast lip, then drill and tap that for bolts, and bolt the steel end plate to it. That 3/4" thick plywood, which will give me a good thick gasket surface I can machine flat and then drill and tap.

maybe a dumb question, but how much it gonna cost ya to do a casting?

Liking the idea of casting, my old man used to pattern maker and he's impressed by your ingenuity. He was curious if you had allowed for shrink and what alloy your looking to cast these out of.

Other than that, can't wait to see this beast fire up! Looks badass!

Cost I estimate to be around $100 for the entire project. thats sand, plaster, aluminum, fuel for the smelt, etc.

Phil, I plan on plaster casting these, and was going to use 356, but after talking with some of the casting engineers at work, I think I'll use 319 instead. It has a lower shrink rate of 1-2% as opposed ot the 5-6 for higher alloys. I'm accounting for shrink with a bigassed set of runners and draw pocket. There is 5 lbs worth of raw aluminum in each casting, plus the runner and gate system. Here are a few shots of that mocked up. the engineers at work and I tlaked about it and looked the model over and decided that I need to feed both the heavy sections, and then put a vent on the far end to allow it to outgas. With all the runners and gates, I'll be pouring about 15 lbs of aluminum.

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/plenumpour1.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/plenumpour2.jpg

Just thought I'd chime in on this. Been reading the thread for a while now and I dig what you're doing. Remember back in the late 80's Hot Rod Magazine was pushing that whole " Dare to be Different" approach to build ? This build fits that to a T. I used to work for a company years ago called Cambridge Tool North, primarily a foundry, specializing in aluminum castings. We did a lot of work for G.E., Ruger, Bose, Qualcomm... a lot of different companies. We made several things for GE, one of the being the I-70 meter frame, chances are you have one on the service to your house. This was cast in 319 alloy, and it was the crappiest of all the alloys we had. Also keep in mind to avoid porosity there is a tremendous amount of pressure needed to make a decent casting, otherwise it will be full of voids, that chances are will be well beneath the surface and won't expose itself until its to late. And these were all done on machined dies, run in presses than ran upwards of 20 tons of pressure. I would seriously re-consider your choice of alloy.I work for UAC now and we're an extrusion only operation making parts primarily for Boeing and Lockheed Martin. Much better quality as far a finished product and unless something is very very wrong porosity and voids are a thing of the past.

King, agreed, if I were die casting. 319 is a miserable diecasting alloy, 356, 380-85 are much better choices, but, since I'm head pressure sand/plaster casting, the 319 is a better choice for a couple of reasons. It doesnt require the after casting heat treatment, and it doesnt have as high a shrinkrate. I agree with you as well on the voids and porosity. That is the reason for the large, tall pour cup, and the outgas tube. the goal is to fill from the heavy sections first, to drive solidifcation of the part from the thinwalled end of the plenum. as this will trap air and gas, I added the vent tube. Also, notice the vent tube is taller than the pour cup, so I don't end up with an aluminum spout! All this speculation is the reason I went with a wooden mold instead of a foam mold. If I was only making 1 part, and knew it was going to be spot on first pour, I would have made it out of foam, but, as I need 2, and like you point out, I have a lot of surface area, this could take a few attempts to get it right.

as a side note, I work for an air cooled, industrial engine company, and, if I end up with leaks, I can always send them along with a load of our crankcases to the impreg house. We impreg all of our cases with resin to keep oil leakage to a minimum.

Well like I said, just throwing my hat in the ring. Never tried the method of casting your doing but I can't wait to see the results. Keep us posted. Don't listen to the E Thugs on here, there's no way any of them have anything worth looking at, cuz they spend too much time on here posting smack about what others are actually building.. Good Luck man...

thanks, I appreciate the insight! I'm hoping to make some molds here this week.

So that design is better than a normal air to air flat fin I/C but is the gain lost when you put the I/C directly in/over the valley pan area (hot)?

It's an intake plenum, not an intercooler, and yes, the flow on it is much, much better then a normal plenum. I had a friend run some CFD on it, I'll post up some screenshots in the next few days. As I plan on running methanol or toluene injection, I didn't do intercoolers. I'm going to try to add the laminova intercoolers, but, if I can't make them work, it wont be the end of the world, as the Methanol injection will be good enough at the pressures I plan to run.

Time for an update!

So, I finished the pattern... and, it works!

I also did a 3D model of the runners and gates. I talked with a friend of mine at work, Jeremy, that works in our casting quality area, and he helped me develop the gates, runners, and gas tubes shown in the model.

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/plenumpour1.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/plenumpour2.jpg

the long thin tube is a gas tube to allow the air to escape from the pattern as the metal is poured.

then, here is the pattern all glued together:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8262.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8263.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8265.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8266.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8267.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8268.jpg

I didnt take any pictures of it, but, I went through and radiused a lot of the sharp edges with body filler, sanded out high spots, and filled low ones, then coated the whole thing in fiberglass resin to give it a smooth surface. I then sanded it out with fine sandpaper, and buffed it, so it was like glass to get the plaster to release.

Speaking of, my 1st attempt:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8269.jpg

not so good... not enough water.

So, second attempt:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8271.jpg

better, but, if you leave it hollow, the wals are too thin to support themselves trying to pry the mold off, and you end up breaking them, like this:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8270.jpg

so, as they say, 3rd time is the charm!

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8273.jpg

about 30 lbs of plaster scrap... good thing the stuff is cheap!

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8274.jpg

4th attempt was pretty good as well:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8275.jpg

I need to fill a few spots where there were air bubbles, but overall, I am satisfied:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8276.jpg

on to the outside... I had some scrap wood, so a whipped up this little box that will hold 1/2 the mold at a time. I made it kind of big... I might go back and fill some of it with foam blocks just to take up room so I need less plaster:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8278.jpg

It won't get cored like this, this is both halves in at one time, but, it gives you an idea.. and yes, I'm going to attach the power wagon logo to the mold so that it will cast in the letters into the plenums :wink:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8279.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8280.jpg

To the OP:

I forwarded build thread to my old man, and I've posted his write-up/comments below in italics, all the while making a note that everything he has written in in good faith and should not be construed in the typical Pirate fashion of "it needs more triangulation" (or should it be?). Whether you choose to take it into consideration is up to you!

Oh yeah, and get this thing running! :flipoff2:

"I have followed with interest the story and photos of this casting project. You have demonstrated a good grasp of the over-arching principles involved in sand casting.

That said, I have some concerns about a number of areas:

Shrink

You stated in your thread that you have accounted for shrink by feeding the large sections of the casting from a “big pour cup” (more on that below). Yes that takes care of liquid metal shrinkage as it starts to freeze in the mold, but did you account for shrinkage with the pattern itself? If the pattern is not constructed with shrink built in (either using a shrink rule or calculating each dimension by multiplication), the final dimension of the solidified casting will be smaller than the pattern you started with.

Risering/gating

What you refer to as a pour cup is functionally a riser: a large volume of liquid metal that feeds the bigger cross-sections of the casting as they begin to solidify and shrink after the pour is complete. Pouring molten metal into a mold is like pouring beer in a glass. It foams. And will entrain air if you aren’t careful, and that is trouble especially for aluminum.

To avoid that, in the cope you need a straight, tapered, vertical sprue, square in cross-section and normal to the parting line. It should start at maybe 2 inches in cross-section at the top of the mold and taper evenly down to about ¾ inch in cross-section at the mold parting line. It should have a corresponding sprue cup in the drag half of the mold, a 2 inch cube. The gating which should be maybe 1 inch wide by 3/8 to ½ inch deep can then be run at the parting line of the drag over to the mold cavity. This arrangement will give the metal time to slow down which will help reduce turbulence.

Core

I advise using a sand core for this project. Using a solid plaster core is probably not a good idea for a couple reasons:

1. if that core contains any moisture at all, when the hot (approx 1300 degrees) metal hits, the moisture will flash into steam, expand and explode like a bomb. Literally.
2. cores are meant to hold their shape during the pour, and then once shrinkage begins, they collapse slightly. Doubtful that plaster will collapse much at all, leading to tears and breaks in the casting.
3. And the plaster will be a bitch to dig out of the finished part.



Draft

From the photos I saw, it looked like you did not put draft on the plywood end pieces or the frame attached at the base of the pattern. Curves and arcs have natural draft. Flat planes, like the plywood pattern ends, don’t and need draft added. It’s usually 1 degree, sometimes more. Without draft you will have a very difficult time getting this thing out of the sand, unless you are using loose pieces on your pattern.



Core prints

I do not see a means of ‘locking’ the core in place inside the mold cavity. Usually that is accomplished by use of coreprints, pieces of wood attached to the pattern that make an imprint in the sand that will receive the corresponding sand core. You don’t want that core to float.

Sand

What kind of sand are you using, and what is the binder? The box you show holding the pattern does not look deep enough to provide enough sand for a strong mold.

You can have a perfect pattern, perfect mold, perfect metal chemistry, but… Pouring liquid metal into a mold is – ultimately – a crap shoot. That’s why metal casting is the most expensive way to manufacture a component. But, as you correctly reason, sometimes it is the only efficient way to manufacture a component.

None of the above should be construed as criticism. You’ve come a long way with this, and again, you have a good grasp of the process. I would like to see you succeed.

My bona fides: I was a pattern maker in a foundry for 10+ years. We cast all sorts of parts, valves, pump bodies, impellors, etc, and we used more than 260 different metal alloys, ferrous and non-ferrous, everything from lead to titanium."

To the OP:

I forwarded build thread to my old man, and I've posted his write-up/comments below in italics, all the while making a note that everything he has written in in good faith and should not be construed in the typical Pirate fashion of "it needs more triangulation" (or should it be?). Whether you choose to take it into consideration is up to you!

Oh yeah, and get this thing running! :flipoff2:

"I have followed with interest the story and photos of this casting project. You have demonstrated a good grasp of the over-arching principles involved in sand casting.

That said, I have some concerns about a number of areas:

Shrink

You stated in your thread that you have accounted for shrink by feeding the large sections of the casting from a “big pour cup” (more on that below). Yes that takes care of liquid metal shrinkage as it starts to freeze in the mold, but did you account for shrinkage with the pattern itself? If the pattern is not constructed with shrink built in (either using a shrink rule or calculating each dimension by multiplication), the final dimension of the solidified casting will be smaller than the pattern you started with.

Risering/gating

What you refer to as a pour cup is functionally a riser: a large volume of liquid metal that feeds the bigger cross-sections of the casting as they begin to solidify and shrink after the pour is complete. Pouring molten metal into a mold is like pouring beer in a glass. It foams. And will entrain air if you aren’t careful, and that is trouble especially for aluminum.

To avoid that, in the cope you need a straight, tapered, vertical sprue, square in cross-section and normal to the parting line. It should start at maybe 2 inches in cross-section at the top of the mold and taper evenly down to about ¾ inch in cross-section at the mold parting line. It should have a corresponding sprue cup in the drag half of the mold, a 2 inch cube. The gating which should be maybe 1 inch wide by 3/8 to ½ inch deep can then be run at the parting line of the drag over to the mold cavity. This arrangement will give the metal time to slow down which will help reduce turbulence.

Core

I advise using a sand core for this project. Using a solid plaster core is probably not a good idea for a couple reasons:

1. if that core contains any moisture at all, when the hot (approx 1300 degrees) metal hits, the moisture will flash into steam, expand and explode like a bomb. Literally.
2. cores are meant to hold their shape during the pour, and then once shrinkage begins, they collapse slightly. Doubtful that plaster will collapse much at all, leading to tears and breaks in the casting.
3. And the plaster will be a bitch to dig out of the finished part.



Draft

From the photos I saw, it looked like you did not put draft on the plywood end pieces or the frame attached at the base of the pattern. Curves and arcs have natural draft. Flat planes, like the plywood pattern ends, don’t and need draft added. It’s usually 1 degree, sometimes more. Without draft you will have a very difficult time getting this thing out of the sand, unless you are using loose pieces on your pattern.



Core prints

I do not see a means of ‘locking’ the core in place inside the mold cavity. Usually that is accomplished by use of coreprints, pieces of wood attached to the pattern that make an imprint in the sand that will receive the corresponding sand core. You don’t want that core to float.

Sand

What kind of sand are you using, and what is the binder? The box you show holding the pattern does not look deep enough to provide enough sand for a strong mold.

You can have a perfect pattern, perfect mold, perfect metal chemistry, but… Pouring liquid metal into a mold is – ultimately – a crap shoot. That’s why metal casting is the most expensive way to manufacture a component. But, as you correctly reason, sometimes it is the only efficient way to manufacture a component.

None of the above should be construed as criticism. You’ve come a long way with this, and again, you have a good grasp of the process. I would like to see you succeed.

My bona fides: I was a pattern maker in a foundry for 10+ years. We cast all sorts of parts, valves, pump bodies, impellors, etc, and we used more than 260 different metal alloys, ferrous and non-ferrous, everything from lead to titanium."

Phil,

Please tell your dad I appreciate his advice, and, he was right, I need ot make some changes, based on what I found out below:

1. plaster is sticky stuff. It really likes to stick to flat surfaces.
2. I had too many flat surfaces.
3. My original plan of anchoring the core didnt work.
4. My original plan of making a completely plaster mold was a bad idea as well.
5. Plaster gets expensive when you have to buy a lot of it.
6. My original parting line plan would have resulted in 2 1/2 feet of head pressure on a vertical parting line... in retrospect, had I even made it to the point of pouring metal, it probablt would have hydraulically forced my mold open.
7. 1/8" thick walls are too thin to try and accurately locate a core.

so. Based on this "discovered" info, I almost gave up.

But, I'm going to make these changes:

1. No more plaster. Almost (more on that later)
2. horizontal parting line, with risers on both ends to let air escape the mold
3. gate it like your dad suggested.
4. Ripped the pattern all apart, and added 5* of draft to all flat surfaces.
5. going to create a dovetail type joint to lock the core into the two halves.
6. make the core boxes 2' square, so I have an easier time making mirror image molds
7. Add core pin holes to both halves to drop in steel or aluminum rod to pin the two halves together and allign them


Aso for the sand/binder, what does he recommend using? I was going to do the whole thing in plaster, so, now I am venturing into new territory using sand.

Also, what does he think of casting over the "Power Wagon" logo in plaster, and then inserting that plaster core into my cope or drag to give the letters a better level of detail? would the sand and plaster jive OK?

Huge props to you on undertaking this effort.

My biggest concern is the fragility of your casting when subjected to the internal pressures of the blower.
Also, the machining required for this effort is damn precise for the screws to seal and do their thing. You do realize the quantity of castings you will have to pour to achieve a good shot may exceed 10.
DO you have a machining source for the castings?

I have a few years as a pattern maker and foundryman from years ago and this is a true science and many factors as stated by Philfab's father can contribute to the successful pour.

Have you contacted a foundry to assist in this?

Once again, not slamming, just questioning...

john

John,

No worries, constructive critiscism is always welcome.

I plan on bumping wall thickness out to 1/4"...

A friend of mine has a bridgeport. Im sure for a few bucks or a 6 pack he'll deck em for me.

No screws here... turbochargers, not superchargers. The turbo will compress the air, then send it into the plenums via a pipe. Only machining to be done will be decking the two gasket surfaces.

You already have the "turbo thing" covered, but as a backup, I ran twin GT42's on a 572 cu.in Ford, burning methanol, 9.0 to 1 CR, had NO problem lighting them, and made 40 psi boost with them. (2wd truck pulling)
Have 3 buddies doing same with twin turbo's of different sizes, one is twin HX60's, one other is T-18A 90 somethings. The third is an experimenter so he could have anything on his.
All are "low" compression compared to our supercharger counterparts.
I'd love to do a hemi with twins or one large charger, but am standing here with empty pockets,,,, I am flagman at pulls now,,,:(
Project looking good! Go get 'em!!:smokin:

Greetings, bigevildodge and all:

At Philfab's suggestion, I joined the website in order to smooth out the line of communication. I'm the author of the missive he passed along back on post #145.
But I'm definitely the FNG around here, so bear that in mind. I apologize in advance if I transgress...

I'd like to address a couple things in your post #146...
Adding draft to aid drawing the pattern is good, although 5 degress may be a bit excessive. Remember that whatever draft you add to the pattern is extra metal on the casting and you'll just have to machine it off later.
Would you please sketch up this dovetail joint you want to use to lock the core in the mold cavity? I'm pretty sure something that elaborate is not needed, but I'd like to see your plan.
From context, I think what you refer to as core boxes are actually the cope and drag of the proposed mold. (I will try to clarify terms as we go. It will enable better communication, and will help you no end should you decide to approach a foundry to cast this pattern.) Two-foot square is too large and will waste your time and sand. If you will provide a measurement of the pattern's max dimension: length width and normal from parting line to its highest point, I can probably offer a more suitable box size. Also, I'd like to see your new gating/risering plan. You have the right idea, and certainly there is more than one way to cast this and be successful. Just want to see where you are going with it.
Aligning the cope and drag doesn't require steel pins. Usual foundry practice is to place a couple buttons, that is, flat wood discs maybe 1-1/2 inches in depth and 2 to 3 inches in diameter with 5* draft on the sides, in the cope half of the mold when ramming it up. (You should be ramming up the cope half first.) Then turn it over, draw the buttons, place the drag half of the pattern on the rammed-up cope plus whatever gating goes in the drag and ram up the drag. Use plenty of parting powder and/or spray parting. The drag half will then have a couple tits that correspond to the holes in the cope formed by the buttons. And that provides your alignment, along with whatever the core is doing. It is always advisable to have the alignment 'female' holes in the cope, because otherwise as you lower the cope onto the drag at final closing of the mold prior to pouring, any sand dislodged from the protruding tits will fall down into the corresponding depression and hold the cope half up, thus causing thickness issues with the finished casting. Make sense?
Sand and binder...well there are lots of combinations. Ideally, you want the cleanest sand obtainable, and as fine-grained (and therefore less-permeable to gases) as you can find. Pouring temp of the alloy will have a large influence on how well this works, let's get the pattern and gating right first and then let's address the sand/binder issue.
I would not cast over the Power Wagon logo in plaster. Best practice is to have that integral to the mold. If you use fine-grained enough sand, it shouldn't be a problem. The hardest part will be to get the logo (and pattern) slick enough to come out without breaking the sand of the mold. Since the logo was cast once before, it looks to have plenty of draft, so the main thing is be sure it is mighty slippery, ie, no teeny little cracks or crevices in the draft face that could cause back-draft and thus cause the mold to break as you are drawing the pattern. I believe I read you used fiberglass resin to slick up the pattern? Normal practice is to use pattern lacquer, but your method should work. Sand it with increasingly fine grades of sandpaper, remove all sanding dust, and be sure and use good parting, either powder or spray-on. Spray-on is probably the best way to go.

Sorry, another couple questions:

How did you form your plaster cores? I saw a parting line on the ends of the cores you made, but I am not sure how they got there.
When you state you are 'bumping up' the wall thickness, how are you achieving that?

Again, no criticism intended, I'm just trying to follow your thought pattern.

I appreciate your help, it has been very useful through this project. As the saying goes, a picture is worth a thousand words, so:

Here is the core. I made it in plaster again, as I couldnt get the sand to bond hard enough and still release from the mold in one piece. I take the two halves of the mold (I sawed it down its centerline to make two halves) and use rubber bands to hold them together. I then pour a liquid plaster slurry into the center, let it set, and gently pry the shell off them. In the bottom you can see the dovetail joint base.

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8294.jpg

And, first attempt at ramming sand... A little thin in places, and Im having a difficult time getting the sand near the gates to release without breaking away, but I think I need more draft on the gate. Im mixing 5 parts sand to 1 part plaster, stirring it up dry, then mixing in 1 part water. Seems to work well, I get a good hard set that I can break up and then mix in fresh plaster into and reuse. The sand still breathes too, so there shouldnt be a worry about having them 100% dry. I need to make the short wall longer though, to reduce the angle on the top side, as you can see I got breakout of the mold near the top of the cavity.

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8295.jpg

A closeup of the dovetail joint. It works well, I got impatient and put the core in too soon and broke the sand, but even with what is left, it locked it securely in place.

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8296.jpg

If I clean up my ramming, make some small adjustments to the gates and pattern position, I think I'll finally be set to pour metal.

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8297.jpg

oh, and the reason for using plaster instead of bentonite clay for binder is, I cant find any around here, and I can't find it online in a 10 lb tub... its all 8oz of it for $20, or 50 lbs of it for $15, and then 60 bucks to ship it!

catlitter=bentonite

catlitter=bentonite

walmart $2 a big bag (red one)

Using cat litter (as bentonite clay binder) isn't a bad idea. I don’t know what percentage of the cat litter bentonite makes up, doubtful it is 100% It needs to be very finely ground/milled. You are using good practice to mix things dry and then add the water. Go easy, you don't want concrete. The mold sand should retain some permeability and adding too much binder or water will reduce that even as it makes the mold stronger. The trick is to add enough binder to the sand such that it keeps its shape thru the molding and pouring process. Bentonite clay, when it makes up about 5% by weight of the sand + 5% by weight water, does the job pretty well by itself. The binder takes up the spaces between the individual grains of sand to the point where it hangs together. But...Too much binder (as with plaster, I’m afraid) makes a strong mold, but doesn't have enough permeability for gassing off during and after the pour. And there is little collapsibility with plaster. Good collapsibility allows the sand mold and core to collapse under the stresses of a contracting and solidifying casting so you don't end up with tears.
That’s the rub: You want the sand to hang together with enough strength to allow molten metal to flow without breaking chunks off inside the mold (called hot strength), but then it needs to crumble somewhat once the cooling and shrinking process begins.
The dovetail core print seems to be working. The fit should be as tight as you can make it and still get the core to seat.
I hesitate to state categorically that the plaster cores/plaster-sand mold won’t work…did I mention that casting metals is a crapshoot?...but I have strong reservations about going that route, for the reasons mentioned above about collapsibility. And there is only one path for escaping gasses/steam from the core and that is through that dovetail configuration. Or else thru the casting, and we don’t want that.
Easy for me to say, but I think I’d give that cat litter a try.
I think the reason the mold sand is breaking off at the gating is probably that it (the gating) isn’t smooth enough on the draft sides. Because of that, you are getting backdraft: a degree or two of draft should be plenty for gating. Are you using any sort of parting compound? What about the finish? You fiberglassed the pattern, but what about the gating? Fiberglass it too or use several coats of urethane and sand the %^&* out of it, really slick it up.
Thanks for posting the pictures. And hang in there, this will ultimately be worth the effort.

Why?


Because I can! that's why!

Ah HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!


http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8369.jpg

All this money and effort just to make something go "boom". Seems like packing the block with Pyrodex would be cheaper and much more satisfying.

All this money and effort just to make something go "boom". Seems like packing the block with Pyrodex would be cheaper and much more satisfying.


Time I have lots of, money, I do not... I got the pair of ladies above for $100... I could sell them for 3X that, so, if I do nuke it, I could part out whats left of the engine, and go buy a Cat 3114 and stuff that into it.

Maybe, but you have to admit the Pyrodex idea sounds like fun. Well, than or a Federal explosives violation charge of some sort.

this should be very cool when its done.. im likin it so far

well, time for an update. The superchargers are, of course, driven off the crank. I calculated the belt loading and such for the pair of blowers, and need a 1.5:1 ratio to give me 5 PSI of blower boost over atmospheric, or, a pressure ratio of 1.35.

That may not sound like much, but, with compound boost, the ratios are multiplied not added, so, if I run 10 PSI off the turbos, or, a pressur ratio of 1.7, I dont end up with 15 PSI of boost, I end up with 19 PSI of boost. It's important to let the turbos do most of the work, as the blowers are not as efficient, and, the point of the blowers is more to scavenge the cylinders than provide high boost.

The good news in all this is a co-worker of mine has an 8 rib 4.75" pulley, wich will give me a 1.47:1 drive ratio with the pulleys that are on the fronts of the blowers now, so, I've got my serp pulley setup nailed down. The problem is the crank pulley, and the fact that the blowers are too short to reach out past the end of the waterpump, AND, my AC air pump is alsoin going to be in the way, so, to get past all that, I plan to run a jackshaft. I'll have the crank turn a cog belt belt, which will turn one end of the jackshaft. The other end will have the serp belt and the 4.75" pulley. To get the cog belt and cog pulleys, I went out to the junkyard I scrounge and found a smucked Ford contour with the 2.0 DOHC Zetec. I snagged both cam cogs for the timing belt, then took the factory front pulley off the 400 and made some solid models in solidworks. I cooked up this assembly:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/driveassembly.jpg

Green pulley is the stock 400 pulley. The red ring is the 36-1 toothed ring I'm going to use for the EFI to keep track of RPM and crank position. Grey hub is the part I need to have made, and the blue ring is the outside of one of the Zetec pulleys. I'll have a local shop make the adapter, and then machine the Zetec pulley for a light press fit, same with the red 36-1 ring.

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/driveassembly2.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/adapterdiameter2.jpg

hub will me made from aluminum. The 6 large holes are just to remove weight, while the 6 smaller ones will bolt it to the crank. The large hole in the middle is both to remove weight, as well as clear the stock crank snout bolt. The inner diameter will pilot on the crank snout, keeping it all concentric. I did the mass calculations in soldworks and it will weigh about 2.3 lbs.

And, a few cutaways showing the assembly:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/driveassembly6.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/driveassembly5.jpg

made a jig to hold the blowers in alignment, then worked on the serp belt routing. Came up with a BEAUTIFUL routing that has over 180* of wrap on the drive and second blower, and 180* on the first blower, along with a single idler that will be loaded with an autotensioner arm. Simple, elegant, and should be effective. The "Vee" between the two blowers will also still give me a good spot to route the turbo inlet pipe in from the air cleaner on the fender. Now, I just have to design the manifolds that connec the blowers to the heads:


http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8372.jpg

I have been following this for a while and I really hope you pull this off. Even if it goes ka-boom, it's good to see someone trying some things that are way out of the ordinary. Good luck.
Now just put the shit together and run it.

X2. I just spent like the past two hours reading your ENTIRE thread. Great build. At least your willing to go out on a limb and give it a shot. Now lets see it put together and start tearing some shit up!

Thanks guys. I gotta find someone to make the hub for me. I'll try local first, unless one of you happens to have a lathe...:grinpimp:

Hmm, compounded twin blowers and turbos.. This is getting mighty interesting

Been playing with multiple different mounting orientations and came up with the determination that my original plan of a 90* "V" would be the best. I made two 3/8" thick head plates. They need to be finished out yet, but they are close enough for now, and I welded spacers in to hold the distanc between the heads.

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8387.jpg

I then squared up the flanges to the blowers, and mocked up the plenums using foamboard:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8388.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8389.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8390.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8391.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8392.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8393.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8394.jpg

I then cut the parts out of 1/8" steel plate, as the boost pressure could be as high as 20 PSI when I am done, and the long side by the valve cover has a surface area of about 65 square inches, and at 20 PSI there would 1300 lbs of force trying to bend that plate! :shock:

I tacked them all together, and then test fit on the engine. I need to break a few tacks and make some adjustments, but, it is 90% there.

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8395.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8396.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8397.jpg

I then bought the factory supercoupe jackshaft pulleys and mounts and tensioner from one of my coworkers, and he gave me an old belt to try the mockup with:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8398.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8399.jpg

looks very promising. I might need a hair longer belt, but it is close.

then, a few pictures of the plenums without the blowers sitting on top:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8403.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8404.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8408.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8409.jpg

I'm sure you are wondering how I plan to attahc the blowers. I'm going to drill holes through the mounting flange, and through the sidewals of the plenum boxes, and weld in compression sleeves. The bolts will pass through the sleeves, and thread into the blowers.

I'll mount my injectors down between the plenums, at a 90* angle to the inside wall. They will be nice and hidden, giving it a clean look. I'll also need to weld in a balance tube between the blowers to balance the vacuum signal between the banks. Finally, I'm going to make two plates, once the blowers are hard mounted to the plenums. One at the front, coming off the 4 bolts of the blower case closest to the V, and one across the back, to hold alignment between the blowers, and prevent them from spreading. Finally, I'll make a jackshaft bearing mount on the front to support one end of the jackshaft and autotensioner pulley, and a second mount on the front of the water pump for the other end with the cog belt. I printed off my hub plans, and dropped them off at a local machine shop, I should get a quote back on it sometime next week.

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8390.jpg



Offtopic but is that OfficeSpace in that background that you were watching?

yup, LOL!

Are you going to run 2 MAP sensors one for each bank, or will the vacuum tube help with that? How will the engine know correct the fuel curve for the amount of boost in each bank since it could possibly be different for each side since they are not one complete chamber. You may already have a plan for that, just curious.

Very nice build none the less, keep up the good work.

Are you going to run 2 MAP sensors one for each bank, or will the vacuum tube help with that? How will the engine know correct the fuel curve for the amount of boost in each bank since it could possibly be different for each side since they are not one complete chamber. You may already have a plan for that, just curious.

Very nice build none the less, keep up the good work.

Planning on adding the balance tube between the plenums to keep pressure in balance between the two banks. The tube will also serve as a mounting point for my diverter valve that will bypass boost around the blower screws at idle, and at cruising, when there is no need for the extra pressure.

Scored some parts for the rig. Got TWO Ramsey RE12000 Winches, brand new, $900 for the pair, with 150 ft of 7/16" cable... a friggin STEAL!! Here is one, the other is in the garage.

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8440.jpg

The plan is to replace the front LU4 with one, and then make a trailer hitch mount to mount the second on the back. I also plan on making some hitch mounts that will bolt to the sides of the frame, just in front of the rear tires for this:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/crane.jpg


It is a folding crane. The small tube sticking up at the bottom will be a receiver where the winch will bolt on, then stick through the crane with a pin, then pin into the receiver on the truck, either in the back, or on the sides. This way, when I go junkyard hunting, I can pull stuff up to the side of the truck, and pick it up with the crane.

A hydraulic foot will be pinned into the bottom hole, and extend down to hold the weight of the crane off the truck frame. The boom will have an extension joint, and the sliding slip ring will adjust the mounting point for the cylinder that will raise and lower the boom, and I'll mount a small 2K lb winch on top near the swing joint to lift the load. The collar is designed to swivel, so it will swing round 360*. Best part is that it will fold down small enough to fit into the toolbox pocket in the bed!

Arm extended out:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/crane2.jpg

arm extension folded in:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/crane3.jpg

what are you using for a waste gate

pair of tial MV-S gates, the new V band style. Real ones, at $275 a pop...:shaking:

real ones oh my did not think they realy have them any more the market is saturated with those ssautochrome ones lol
ware did you get them what are thir size in mm? are they adjustable?

That poor big block doesn't know what's coming... :) Very cool!

I got the gates from Modern Automotive Performance, but, they took forever, and screwed up my order, so, I'd buy them elsewhere if I were you.

finished mounting the front winch, on to the rear one. Here is the front however:

the carrier for the winch:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8463.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8464.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8472.jpg

C channel brackets on the frame. This is how Dodge should have done it to start. It captures all 5 of the 1/2" bolts:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8465.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8467.jpg

Old brackets over the new ones, you'll see why in a bit:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8468.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8469.jpg

Roller fairlead is mounted to the carrier. I put it up high enough that it should feed straight out on the 4th and 3rd wraps, as I figure there will be very few times I spool out enough cable to get down to layers 1 and 2:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8480.jpg

only downside to my mounting job... motor hangs down a bit. I might come back later and make a little skidplate for it:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8481.jpg

still plenty of room to get the wire lugs on the motor studs. I plan on mounting the solenoids up on the firewall:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8482.jpg

Mounted in, all 1/4" plate or tube:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8483.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8485.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8487.jpg

and, here is the reason for the original brackets. I love the look of the original winch, but, since mine got trashed, I did the next best thing and made the original cases into covers, so the new one looks like the original. I bet 98% of the people who will ever look at it wont' even be able to tell it's not original. They are not finalized in their locations yet, just kinda sitting on top for now:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8490.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8491.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8492.jpg

I am going to make covers that bolt to the insides of the cases to hide the original drum shaft holes:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8493.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8495.jpg

I hope that wasn't a working Braden LU-4 you tore apart for that.

Also, mounting the winch solenoids to the firewall would be foolish. Put them as close as possible to the winch. That way you only have to worry about one large cable from the battery depending on distance. Long cables mean resistance, heat and less power so you have to step up the gauge to keep the power flowing. I'd much rather run one supply line to the solenoids and then short leads to the winch than running expensive heavy wire all around. My solenoids on my Braden are mounted in the grille right behind the winch and the wires to the winch are all less then 2' long. Because of that, I was able to get by with 4 gauge wire from the solenoids and a 1 gauge supply from the battery. I also made my own buss bars for the solenoids from copper tubing flattened out.

good point... I'll mount them down on the rail near the winch. I had to take them off the side of the Ramsey to get it to fit in the frame.

My LU-4 was trashed... the numbnutt that rebuilt it and owned the truck before me fubared the worm gear backlash on it and it wrecked just about everything. Ironically, the only thing left that was any good were the cases... I priced rebuilding it, but, when I got the pair of Ramsey RE12000's for $900, my decision was easy.

Finished the rear conversion to a standard 2" tube type receiver hitch. this will let me put a regular ball on, as well as the factory pintle, and the rear winch. I drilled a 5/8" receiver pin hole, for a locking, O ringed stainless steel pin, as well as a larger, 3/4" hole behind the frame for a load bearing 3/4" bolt when the winch is in. I welded a top plate above the tube, to the plate behind the frame, for some lateral support in sideways pulls

Question for you guys:

In the front, would you weld the cover plate to the hitch, or leave it bolted as-is? I dont really like the look of the gap around the tube, and, I don't see why I would ever have to remove the hitch, but, if I welded the plate to the tube, removing it could really, really suck...

Stock:
http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8496.jpg

After:
http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8497.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8498.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8499.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8501.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8502.jpg

SS locking pin, to deter the theves...

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8503.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8504.jpg

Bolt for load bearing when the winch is in. Camera angle makes it look crooked but it is straight:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8505.jpg

I would consider a new plate that ties into the bumperets to help further strengthen the cross member, but would not weld it to the tube.

http://m37.wawii.com/images/DSC00066_HitchInstalled.JPG

a bit more progress. Finished the pintle hitch conversion. Will work on the winch tonight. Sandwiched a plate between the two factory plates, then bolted it all together, then welded the body to the plate between the two. can still get to the grease zerk from underneath, and it still swivels.

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8512.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8511.jpg


http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8509.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8508.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8506.jpg
Also worked out what to do for ignition. Read up on ignition KV as it relates to cylinder pressure. Under a bar of boost, I will have equivalent cylinder pressures to 245 or so PSI, not including the volume occupied by the fuel, but, also not taking into account leakdown and such, so, it's probably pretty close. at 245 PSI, you need 21KV to fire a plug with a .030 gap. Reason I looked into this is I have these very nice, very FREE coils:

https://delphi.com/shared/images/ppd/pwrtrn/gas_igncoils7.gif

Problem is, said coils only output 15KV, so, I am out of luck. :(

I'll instead be running GM LS2 coils:

http://image.hotrod.com/f/techarticles/engine/8837981+w200/113_0503_ls2_18_z.jpg

these output 45-50KV, have a dwell time of only 5 mS, and output 150mJ of energy at the plug. Basically, they are 2-3 times more powerful than a normal distributed V8 coil, and could probably fire a spark plug under 15 PSI of boost with a .040 or possibly bigger gap!

Rear winch mount is done:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8518.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8519.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8519.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8521.jpg

Barely clears the stock bumperettes, but, its good!

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8517.jpg

the business end:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8523.jpg

That winch will more than likely rip that mount and the rear crossmember of the truck apart if you ever get it on a good pull.

fully agreed, I put my 210 lb of lard on the fairlead and bobbed up and down, with the 2 ft of moment arm, thats about 450 ft-lb of moment, and I could see it torsionally flex some. I'm guestimating as-is it would be good for a few K lb of straight line pull, and maybe 300 lb of tongue weight. All that is why I plan on getting a 3'X4' piece of 1/4" plate and tie that rear member into the frame, and skidplate the tank all at the same time. The frame will then be gusseted approximately 1/3 of it's length, with 2 more crossmembers than stock... I expect it to be more structurally rigid than the original when I'm done. It wouldn't be hard to do though, as the trucks had a LOT of frame flex in them when new. I think it was designed into them to help them articulate off road, but, with the modern spring technology, that's not as necessary anymore... Just need to get a new set of springs under it. One day...:shaking:

bit more work done. Got the calipers and pads for the rear axle, as well as the hub flange gaskets.

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8524.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8525.jpg

Then, I had an idea... :twisted:

2' of 2"X2" 6061 billet:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8527.jpg

4" of said billet:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8526.jpg

4" of billet cut in half:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8528.jpg

4" of billet drilled:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8533.jpg

drilled again:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8538.jpg

sawed again:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8542.jpg

threaded:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8545.jpg

counterbored the other half:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8548.jpg

for this:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8549.jpg

to do this:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8552.jpg

put it all back together:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8554.jpg

and, the reason for the insanity:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8555.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8557.jpg

Much prettier than those ugly rubber lined stamped steel clamps. Plus, once I set up a mini "assembly line" I cranked out 4 of em in about an hour. I can make them for all different lines... brake lines, electrical lines, fuel lines, hydraulic lines, air lines, etc. Best part is that I can vary the height to add or remove holes of all different sizes for different sizes of lines. I drilled 4 holes in this set as I am going to have 4 6AN fuel lines, 2 feed, 2 return, heading up to the engine.

nice brakeline organizer, I like it. I'd consider at least putting a chamfer on those holes. I'd be worried it would slowly cut that pretty braided line :)

well, 2 1/2 months later...

The Blower hub is DONE!!! :D

He made one small booboo... The 6 larger holes drilled to take mass out he didn't drill on the proper centerline, so they came really, really close to breaking out on the inside bore, but, it's OK down on the end that mates to the crank, so, I asked for a nice discount and took it as-is rather than making him make another one.

From this:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/driveassembly5.jpg


To this:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8561.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8562.jpg

Crank position ring not pressed all the way down. Will do that once I figure out how I want to mount the position sensor:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8563.jpg

Beef baby, Beef:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8564.jpg

mounted:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8565.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8567.jpg

Old timing belt off my escort, way, way too long, will need to get something shorter:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8568.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8569.jpg

the ladies and their manifolds:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8573.jpg

also finished welding the doghouse up. Need to knock the welds down, put a little mud on it, and it will be ready for paint. That is the last of the major body and rust repair. now it is just stripping and dent bumping.

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8574.jpg

excuse my lang. but holy shit fuck

more work done. Tore the front end down to get the blocks out from under it. Got a good deal on another forum on 3 pair of matching leaves. Added those to the pack, and with the increased stiffness and arch, I think it will ride at or close to where it was with the blocks:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8605.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8606.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8607.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8609.jpg

Gotta get new, shorter U bolts now, as well as some new bushings and pins. The drivers side front pin was pretty tired, and the passengers front bushing was tired, so, I ordered a new set of both to go all the way around.

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8611.jpg

thats going to ride way too stiff.nice u bolts

I tacked the U bolts back together so the guys at the shop had something solid to measure.

no pictures, as it wasnt that exciting, but, more progress:

Finished rebuilding the power steering pump, and I put the remote reservoir backing plate on it. I then cleaned and stripped the remote reservoir tank. Got it off a snow plow truck at the junkyard, should have lots of capacity for the tie rod bydraulic assist cylinder I'm running.

Also finished the few little things I had to do for the front winch mount, so, Once I get that sandblasted and painted, I can button that one up, and scratch it off the list.

I then tore down both M90 blowers. Both were in overall good shape, with average wear for the miles on them. Both are in need of new couplers, an oil change, and a repacking of the bearings, but, that is pretty standard for used M90s.

this thing is going to be bad ass,

Roller fairlead is mounted to the carrier. I put it up high enough that it should feed straight out on the 4th and 3rd wraps, as I figure there will be very few times I spool out enough cable to get down to layers 1 and 2:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8480.jpg

only downside to my mounting job... motor hangs down a bit. I might come back later and make a little skidplate for it:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8481.jpg


Hello and Nice project you have!

You might want to make that roller fairlead little narrower than the spool in the winch. I allmost ruined my ramsey when the cable packed to the other end and climbed over the end and got jammed to the freespooling mechanism. Had to dismount the winch to get the cable out. Luckily didnt crack the housing. I narrowed the fairlead about 1" / side. My winch is also mounted higher compared to the fairlead and the cable goes in under the spool, not over like yours. You could gain some clearance for the motor i think?

rebuilt the blowers with new seals, repacked the bearings, new oil, and new couplers. Turn like they are brand new. Also threw some paint on them so they match the rest of the underhood, and sanded out the fins so they blend with the finned valve covers:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8639.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8645.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8646.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8649.jpg

Ordered some more parts as well. Wiring harness will be here tomorrow, as well as the rest of the stuff to do the hydraulic clutch. Ordered fuel rail stock, and injectors. Got a set of eight 83 lb/hr injectors. That should be enough fuel to make at least 7-800 ponies :shock: Once those get here, I can install them in the plenums, and bolt the blowers and plenums down permanently! Then it is full speed ahead with the blower belt drive setup.

Got the harness today. EXCELLENT piece. I work daily with automotive grade wiring where I work and this is some of the best quality I have seen. I think the wire is either SXL or GXL, either of which being a very good grade of wire. The fuse box is completely waterproof, all of the wires have rubber weatherpack seals on them, and the cover clips on with a multiple rib seal. It seals so well it actually takes a few seconds for the air to seep out from the seals so you can push the cover down completely.

Wire leads are very generous. I didn't measure, but they have to be at least a 20' run on each. The fuses are divided up into 3 separate main circuits, with it being 3 circuits on two leads, and 4 on the third instead of one common bus like what is normally done. This is a nice feature, as it will allow me to taylor how the power is fed into the fusebox. They can be hardwired to B+, or, switched through the key, or, relay operated NC, or relay operated NO.

It also has 4 relayed high amperage circuits, a pair of 40 amp relayed circuits, and a pair of 20 amp circuits. Came with 4 high vibration waterproof resetting circuit breakers for those. Included a nice 8 gauge 140 amp alternator lead, a bunch of terminals and lugs and leads, and a 100 amp primary fuse, as well as brackets, zip ties and hardware to mount it to the cab. Finally, they included a sample of their powerbraid wire loom, which I am impressed with and will most likely order to do all of my wire wrapping.

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8650.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8655.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8660.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8661.jpg

Ok, so what brand is this harness and where did you get it? Lots of good info on the harness except what someone would need to know to use the same recommended setup, lol.

Ok, so what brand is this harness and where did you get it? Lots of good info on the harness except what someone would need to know to use the same recommended setup, lol.


duh, guess that would help huh? It's a Painless Wiring harness, number 10144. It's their Extreme series off road harness. Was $560, but they have a $100 rebate going on until the end fo March. Just got my order in before it was over.

This is a normal 15 lb/Hr 2 liter 4 cylinder car injector. fuel comes out the two little holes:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8665.jpg

This, is one of my new 83 lb/hr injectors for the truck:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8666.jpg

Finally, let's compare the two side by side: :shock:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8669.jpg

Fuel rail material:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8673.jpg

self adjusting, remote mount reservoir clutch kit. thing out of the package laying in the box is the slave cylinder:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8674.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8675.jpg

got some work done on the clutch. Made a bracket that comes off the PTO port on the trans for the slave to pull off of for the fork. 3/8" base plate (had the steel laying around) then 1/8" plate boxed into a triangular structure. Just clears the floorboard and keeps the slave in good alignment. I need to take the fork out and weld a chunk of steel into the hole with a countersink into it as the ball that came on the slave is too small and fits right through the current hole. I looked for the metal part that fits into the hole OEM but I can't seem to find the one I had and they can be a PITA to find in the boneyard.

looking up:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8680.jpg

looking down from drivers seat:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8678.jpg

drivers frame rail view:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8677.jpg

passenger's side view:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8676.jpg

finished the slave mount, but didn't take any pics of it. It fits nice. Got to make the master cylinder mount next. I made a new lever arm for the clutch pedal shaft that reverses the direction so I can mount the new MC behind the pedal, instead of in front of it.

Been working on the EFI system, as well as the superchargers. Got in the last few parts I was wating on to install the blowers once and for all. Made my fuel rails, drilled out some nuts and welded them to the intakes for injector bosses, and then made little T shaped mounts to hold the rails to the manifolds. they BARELY cleared one another!!

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8702.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8705.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8706.jpg

and, all installed:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8713.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8716.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8726.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8730.jpg

See, just fit past one another... Whew!!

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8732.jpg

Pointing right down the port throat at the intake valve:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8740.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8744.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8746.jpg

Need to build a backing plate for the charge pipes from teh turbos to weld to, as well as to tie the two blowers together to give them more strength:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8748.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8755.jpg

fittings just clear, and come out side by side. There will be two Walbro GLS392 pumps, good to 500 HP each on an EFI system, with duel regulators, and dual feeds and returns. She's gonna have one SERIOUS fuel system!

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8760.jpg

Scrounged a new boneyard yesterday and found some GM LS1 car coils. Not as fire breathing as the LS2 truck coils, but, they have no trouble lighting cylinders under 30 PSI of boost, so they should do just fine for what I plan to do with them. Got a decent deal on them too. I plan on mounting them upside down beside the block. Will modify the mounting backet to bolt to the motor mount and the bellhousing, then it's as simple asrunning them up to the plugs, and they should just clear the fender splash pans.

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8762.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8764.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8766.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8770.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8775.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8776.jpg

Whoa what the fuck!!

That is one legit engine. Geeze.

Regards,
Abrams

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x140/glordo/butthead.gifUgh, what's going one here. hauh, hauh, hah.

why twin turbo/twin super charged? is the motor going to hold up to that amount of boost?

i gotta believe hes not gunna have it setup for too much boost at first until hes ready to blow up the motor lol... that particular setup has to be more for seeing how fast he can obtain that boost and how long it can be held rather than the max boost he can get... i could be wrong as he has said before that he pretty much plans on blowing it up... my question is that superchargers and turbochargers have different efficiency ranges and at high rpms the turbos r going to provide more boost than the superchargers can keep up with because they are stuck spinning a fixed rpm based on the belt which would be out of their efficiency range so how are you gunna keep that pressure from building up in between the turbos and the superchargers when u do decide to hold it to the floor and see how many rpms it will turn before it sends part flying?

Uuuuhhhhmmmm whoa... Please post pics of the heads going through the hood, thanks. But seriously I hope it works out for ya man. Very cool.

Shawnsack has it right on the money, it's all about the efficiency, and how wide you can make the band. the turbos will feed the blowers, for compound boost. As a result, both have to work less hard than they would if there was just turbos, or just blowers, and as a result, overall efficiency is quite high. Because I am running two blowers instead of one, the step up ratio between the crank and the blowers is 1.5:1, which is quite low for a supercharger, and will lower the power and heat demands. They will consume about 8 HP each to turn at full engine speed of 6K RPM.

Made the jackshaft tonight... ran into a BIG snafu... My dad had one of his friends with a lathe make a bearing sleeve and a snout extension for the supercoupe jackshaft, and, the sleeve fit perfectly over the bearing, but, the hub extension was 1.25" too long... UH OH! :mad3:

So, I did the first thing any good, self respecting engineer would do: I tried to pin it on the machinist... LOL! unfortunately, after consulting the print, it quickly became clear the part was exactly as ordered and it turns out the guy operating the CAD program (me) didn't understand how to operate a tape measure.:shaking:

So, I ended up growing a set of big steel ones and cutting the center out of the stock supercoupe pulley, then rewelding it at the proper offset. Took me a few hours to get it so that there was no raidal runout, and a few thou of axial runout, but, I finally got it...

Next thing was to bore the escort timing gear out, and bolt it to the hub extension. I put 4 small allen screws in it, as well as the center bolt to carry the load.

I heated the hub extension to 500*F and it slid right onto the end of the bearing shaft with a few whacks of my 2 lb sledge. Let it cool and it is one TIGHT shrink fit. Runout is excellent on the fit, measuring almost nothing.

Complete assembly. The cogged crank hub will turn the cogged pullet on the jackshaft:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8788.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8785.jpg

The sleeve my dad had made. It fits over the stock thunderbird supercoupe unit bearing. that is one BIG bearing! 2.75" long!

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8784.jpg

I'll weld mounting brackets to the sleeve that will bolt to the engine block. That way if I ever need to put a new bearing in, all I have to do is press the old one out of the sleeve, and then heat the hub extension till it comes off, and press it onto the new bearing... Completely serviceable.

our puppy investigating the weld quality on the supercoupe pulley:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8789.jpg

the pulley after I got done fixing my SNAFU. For a while there I wasn't so sure Iwas going to be able to fix it!

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8792.jpg

Sweet build man!!! Big block mopars are the shit!!!


i got an injected 383 big block going into my van this summer, just one turbo would be sweet!!
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x55/bike_slut/DSCN2823-1.jpg

Decent! Where are you going to plumb the nitrous?:flipoff2:

Don't know if you mentioned it or not, but what are you doing about oiling for the superchargers? I don't think they will last to long at that angle.

Eatons have self contained oiling supplies; they dont give a rat's ass what their AOA is... You can even stand them up on end! :smokin: That's part of the reason I used a pair of them instead of a whipple.

Borrowed a mag base and dial indicator from work today. The recentered pulley has .007" runout axially, and .012" radially. Well within spec for a serpentine belt.

Just tacked in place, nowhere close to aligned properly but:

GAWD does that look fierce!! :shock:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8796.jpg


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finished the clutch master cylinder. I am fully aware that the upper brace is not parallel to the lower one... it was intentional to clear the bolts on the frame. I reused the bolts that mount the clutch and brake peda gear outboard of the frame so that I did not have to drill any additional holes in it.

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/IMG_8855.jpg

I am not too impressed with the coverage of the POR 15. I see surface rust coming through the seams everywhere, and it's irritating me to put it lightly. Once I get the cab tub back off I'm going to have to go over the frame and drivetrain with a fine toothed comb and make sure I cover all those spots.

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The grey arm is the link arm off the factory clutch pedal rod. I cut it from a solid block of 1"X2", and then welded on some 3/8" plate to make the rest. I slotted it and burned it in all the way around to give it plenty of strength.

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Pedal travel is perfect. Pedal sits right in the middle of the adjustment on the rod to pedal, and I have adjustment at the MC rod to fork. The pedal bottoms against the floor at the same point that the MC bottoms:

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Also did some work on the fuel system. Got my 4 lines set up on the tank cap. The two on the drivers side are returns, and the two on the passengers side are feeds.

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Dual fuel pumps. Lower one is not the right one, it's a spare from another project, but it happens to be the same type as the right one (Walbro GLS392) so it makes a good mock up:

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Very cool man. Definately a lot of unique ideas from this build.

On the POR 15, stuff kinda sucks. I used to to work for a guy that painted fuel trucks for a local CO-OP and they wanted the frames done in POR 15. They rusted through so fast, it's not really all they claim it is.

Regards,
Abrams

POR works under the right conditions but it seems like if the prep and the conditions are not perfect it doesn't work. I know a lot of people who claim that it is useless if used near salt water due to the salt in the air.

love the build. just a few questions, are your injectors going straight into the intake runners of the heads or is the fuel mixing in that huge open area below the supercharger? Reason i am asking is because if you expect the fuel to mix in that open chamber i don't think your fuel is going to atomize properly or efficiently enough to run. Now if u had seperate runners inside your custom intake leading into the head and each injector had it own runner it would run better but you still are going to have alot issues trying to get it to run properly. i realize you thought alot of this through but i just didnt know what you had planned on doing. again just thinking about getting your fuel and air misted good enough for proper cumbustion and what not.

injectors are in the manifolds, but they are pointed straight down the ports at the intake valve, so as the air heads towards the piston, it will pick up the fuel stream and take it with it. I had originally planne don injecting above the blowers and letting the fuel mix in the screws to cool the blowers and get a good mixture, but i was worried about rotor bearing lubrincation with the fuel degrading the bearing grease, as well as having a whole lotta air fuel mixture contained in the plenums to cause either a backfire, or the fuel falling out of suspension at low engine speeds, so I mounted the injectors low, and pointed right at the valve.

It just doesn't seem like everything would mix well enough,that's why auto manufactures designed most older intakes with fuel injector ports directly into the sinle port of an intake. But i like the build. Do you know what compresion you are trying to achieve throuhall this. cuz you need a pretty low compresion ratio to make what you needed, i hope it all works out well enough for you

stock 8.0:1 or whatever the hell the 400 has stock... Current record holders for power, economy, and emissions are all direct injection engines, like the Porsche 3.8 flat six, my Mazdaspeed 6 with the 2.3L, the Audi 2.0L FSI... Can't get much closer that right into the chamber and they all seem to run great! my speed6 runs 10.5:1 compression and 16 PSI of boost, stock!

The best working Chevy EFI is an injector in each cylinder.
Drag racing and pulling uses port injection.
Diesels use seperate injectors.
My Ford pulling engine was 572 cu. in. @ 9.0 to 1 compression. With port injection by the way. But running 30+ psi of boost. Had to use non water jacketed heads, (solid aluminum), started pushing the chamber material into the water jackets.
2 GT42 turbos will do that sometimes.:D

ordered the radiator... fits PERFECT. Sides drag on the stock core support on the way in. Beast is made in the USA by Flex-a-lite, and comes with a 3K CFM fan on the backside that could be relocated to the front if needed with the included parts. I'll leave it on the back side, as I like the looks better. Rated to 600 HP continuous. If you look at the tanks, you'll see they have a unique way of mounting. the T grooves are there for mounting with the hardware they include. comes with brackets, hardware, electric fan plug and wires, fueses etc, everything EXCEPT a friggin radiator cap. :roll: Kinda bummed about that, but, oh well. VERY nice piece, and would still order it again.

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very nice lookin piece, how much did that unit run ya?

it hurt... $650 bucks.

this thing is going to be just pure nastiness!

I love your build, and your fab ideas are very individual. but I think your going to need more turbos......way more turbos. Have you thought about nitrous???:flipoff2:

no nitrous, needs intercoolers and methanol injection though...:grinpimp:

been a while since I posted, been tied up with otehr stuff, but, got the brake lines bent up and semi-mounted, as well as the fuel lines. I used Copper-Nickel-Iron brake line, made in Michigan. It's used by high end car companies like Audi, Saab, Porsche, M-B, etc as it does not rust, does not corrode, and is very workable. I could bend it easily by hand without kinking, and you can bend it 2-3 times before it starts to work harden.


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Took me a while to figure out where to stick the stupid fuel pressure regulators. Wouldn't go on the frame because they were too tall, couldn't mount them outboard on the firewall because of where the exhaust pipes will be... finally settled on the Vee between the blowers. VERY tight fit there, but if I get the tubes formed right for the blower inlets it should be alright.

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Just a FYI, but running flexible fuel line for that length is usually frowned upon. If you read the safety rules for most sanctioning bodies, flexible lines are usually limited to 12" long.

yeah, well, I frown upon the massive NVH of the beast work hardening and cracking aluminum or copper lines and causing a fire, and SS hard line is a pain to work with... Good to know though if I ever build a race car.

The problem is the NVH with the stainless line, it causes the stainless braiding to chafe the rubber hose inside of it, combined with the pulsing of the fuel pressure inside the hose that causes problems. Also the stainless hides any dry rotting. Ask me how I know. I had a fuel system plumbed completely with Aeroquip SS hose on a My old Ramcharger, and within 2 years The line started leaking everywhere, and I mean everywhere, and being that it was at 40PSI (It was a fuel injected 440) from the tank forward. I was VERY lucky that I did not burn down my truck and shop. Just be careful.

finalized the belt routing. Just need to finish the brackets. I had the excellent idea of driving the water pump with the cog belt which does several things for me:

1. Solid driven water pump. Gotta love that.

2. Alows me to hard mount the PS pump, and then make my adjustments at the alternator. Can run dual belts around both, and end up with one V belt adjustment, instead of two.

3. Alows me to lean the jackshaft off to the drivers side, which makes getting to the water neck a heck of a lot easier, and also alows me to get significantly more wrap on the serpentine belts.

4. Serp idler pulley in the middle will be hard mounted, while the tensioner will be on the bottom where there is no chance of inducing slip in the belt on the blowers from idler fluctuations.

5. Uses a standard goodyear belt, number 4080455.

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is the right side blower going to have enough belt contact? it is only being driven by the left blower. the bottom of the right blower is all slack.

the tensioner will be on the bottom there to take up the slack. Having the belt dragged around the passengers side blower should make the belt bite in and turn it.

neat project

Finished the cog belt drive, and the serpentine belt is on order. The idler is on a bracket mounted to the water pump bolts and is sloted on the drivers side bolts to make tension adjustments. To tension it, you put a wrench on the bolt head in them middle of the idler, pull it tight, and then cinch the water pump bolts down. I plan on replacing the bolts with double ended hex studs, so that I can make adjustments to the belt tension without risking blowing the gasket on the water pump. Once I get the serp belt I can finish the rest of the drive. Was plesantly surprised at the cost, the belt was only 28 bucks. Also got the rear blower tie plate done. This is the plate that will weld to the the charge piping and carry the air from the turbos to the blower inlets. I need to make a front one as well that will tie the two blowers together at the front to keep them from flexing. Originally, the blowers were held down by 3 large bolts, but I could not get that system to work correctly, so they are held to the manifolds by the 4 bolts that originally held the discharge caps on, and I don't believe that they were designed to hold the blower's weight, so the plates will help tie them together and take some of the load off the 4 original bolts.



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Please take video of this thing when it fires up. I really want to hear all the noise it makes coming apart, lol.

Please take video of this thing when it fires up. I really want to hear all the noise it makes coming apart, lol.

ditto...

finished tacking and basic assembly of the blower drive bracket. Got the idler installed, as well as the tensioner for the serpentine belt. that thing travels all over!

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And, A video of the blowers/jackshaft being spun with the drill. WARNING: The drill makes a god aweful noise since it is right beside the camera mic. The fluttering sound in the background that sounds like helecopter blades is the blowers:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/th_blowers.jpg (http://s436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/bigevildodge/?action=view&current=blowers.flv)

You are going to have to move that tensioner. When the belt stretches it will lay against the pulley and ride against it, no longer holding the belt tight.

yeah, I plan on sliding the backing plate to the passengers side. It's got the belt a little tighter than I initially wanted too. It's all just tacked right now. Shit, I was thrilled that it even turned! LOL!:D

went back through and made a bunch of small adjustments, including the location of the tensioner, then welded her up. Within a 1/16" of an inch alignment axially, and a few degrees radially all around now.